Help Drephen not be a noob!

Drephen · Oct 22, 2009

Big_R · Oct 22, 2009

watch some m2k vids he does pretty sweet stuff

lol its a burn to u....but like he does do some solid edgeguarding. i swear u were more crisp at it before tho.. and when u play me but i guess thats more on me...

elvenarrow3000 · Oct 22, 2009

Hmmm... I dunno, I feel like you could be doing more with aerial needles on the approach. There were several times I expected you to, but you didn't. It's very safe, frame wise, and it can lead into grabs and all sorts of good stuff.

In general, your Sheik just feels kinda lax and floaty. You doublejump a lot, even on the approach, which might work for you, but it just doesn't have the air of pressure I feel like you need to beat high pressure characters.

Also you seem to get a lot by you on the edge. Sheik's edgeguarding can be a lot more than just the dsmash. It seems like you're missing a lot of chances to airguard or aerial needle them to death.

Just suggestions, anyway.

Fortress | Sveet · Oct 22, 2009

i think you don't need to change anything unless you plan to revamp your style.

KirbyKaze · Oct 22, 2009

I think you need to be more comfortable with her offstage stuff.

Like, if you grab the edge and ledgehop Bair with good timing, what's a Fox gonna do if he's recovering anywhere but super high? You're pretty good at ledgehop Nair timings, so this is just the expansion to that. Another move, another timing to learn, pretty similar. Low risk because most of the time you'll be invincible completely when you do it. That's pretty much the only thing (basic offstage edgeguarding) that I'd say you need to learn to do. Ledgehop Bair and Nair are stupidly effective together.

On the edge, sometimes if you can just convince them they should Bair and you roll past it to the middle, you can reset the spacing and get some safety. Trying to shieldgrab for B-throw is really tempting but it seems we all just die nowadays for trying it. Or die more than we get kills for it.

I think the rest of it is just picking the right moves at better times. I mean, it's not like there's anything wrong with just using her basics and having a preference for being grounded; her ground game is really good. But I think being frustrated and just D-smashing / sidestepping at bad times gets you hit a lot. Whereas if you dash danced into grab or dash attack, you would have gotten a hit. Or if you jumped back with Fair you would have been safe.

So yeah... I think you mainly just need to be more accurate.

ZoSo · Oct 22, 2009

Dsmash is good, just don't do it against people who are at low percents. It's safe on block if it hits really deep and all the hitboxes connect. Rather than CCing to dsmash, CC to grab. You have a really good tech chasing game against fastfallers (seriously, really impressive). You should play to your strengths.

You rely on WD back a LOT for baiting. It's good in moderation, but it's really easily countered if your opponent just overshoots. Not only that, but you're eventually going to get pushed to the edge where it's no longer an option.

You throw out a lot of random dash attacks when you're like, way too far away to actually catch anybody off guard with them.

Sometimes when you get hit or just pressured, it seems like you just freak out and roll/spot dodge until you feel safe. Try to CC and hold your shield more. Don't just roll/dodge because they scared you.

You edgeguard with ftilt in a lot of situations where you could just fair or dsmash. Ftilt is pretty good, but if they're smart and DI away, you're basically giving them another chance to recover whereas you could just kill them/force them to recover from below the edge where you can just bair them to death.

As KK pointed out, when edgeguarding, you 50/50 a lot between run-off slap (to punish the downward up-B sweetspot) and waiting (to punish them on their way down if they up-B'd straight across or up). This is really good because a lot of people don't cover the downward up-B sweetspot these days.

You seem to throw out a lot of random full jump fairs whenever you read an opponent's full jump. Honestly, I would really only go for this if you're 100% sure you guessed right. It's too unsafe otherwise. Utilt/ftilt them on their way down. If they use their double jump, they're basically at the mercy of Sheik's cheating robot legs.

Whenever you charged needles you always cancel the charge by spot dodging... I guess it doesn't hurt if they're respawning or something, but it's unnecessary. You've been doing this for as long as I can remember and to be honest I never understood it.

Sliq · Oct 22, 2009

Wait for Kel's to double jump and come down with a bair. Pre empt him with up air. Juggle his jumpless *** 40 times to fair.

But seriously, just pay attention to what they are doing, or have someone watch your match and coach you.

4% APR · Oct 23, 2009

you wavedash from the ledge too much. You do it almost every time in that set and kels kept getting you. i have that habit too :/

Devil Ray · Oct 24, 2009

give credit to kels too. i think kels forced drephen to make some mistakes bc they're both really close in skill.

imo, i wouldn't change a single motherffuggin thing. every match up with every player is different. overall, i was impressed

Spife · Oct 25, 2009

tags
Drephen, my advice is this: stop being a tier ***** and play a low tier character cause it's more honorable. Also use items cause thats the way the game was meant to be played, etc etc

LooksLikePit · Oct 26, 2009

I noticed that you would just throw fairs above his shield super super frequently. If you're going to do that, space them so if he does jump out of the shield he gets hit by the very tip of it.

Even better, if you just space yourself outside of their shield so they can't hit you, then you can react to anything they do.

Ryzol_ · Oct 29, 2009

Pretty much every time you were hit into the air you double jumped before landing. It was rarely punished, so I guess it was a good choice, but it is also potentially a bad habit.

SuperMatt · Oct 31, 2009

i like the full jump fair guessing game, it works on a lot of folks, but kels is not a fox that it works on...i learned this the hard way

Mizar · Nov 18, 2009

No Nairs? I am disappoint.

ZomgNinjah!!!1 · Nov 19, 2009

How about tilting? Oh wait, that works better in brawl ^_^

AlcyoNite · Dec 8, 2009

I dont feel confident in my critiquing, but I do second the notion of moving sheik up a few tiers.

My first impression was that you made it incredibly obvious when u decided to go in, which should have hurt you more when the fox was at CC percents and you decided to dash attack or misspace back airs. Can I prescribe empty shuffling? Not for the sake of perpetual movement, but more to snuff fox's DD when he gets near you and to lead to potential grabs. I like to compare sheik's spacing aerials away with fox's spacing dash attacks and neutral airs inside his opponent's space because he knows the enemy will run. Same with you, only you know fox will try to get inside rather than run away.
-My inexperienced 2 cents

soap · Dec 29, 2009

KirbyKaze said:
I think you need to be more comfortable with her offstage stuff.

this is the biggest thing, downsmash doesnt hit sweetspot, and people sweetspot.

u dont need to be fancy, its basically just doing ledge regrab back airs using invincibility frames.

i know u use the A button drew, but from the ledge, pressing down then up on control stick, and cstick bair, gives u like a frame perfect bair with no DI so u can easily regrab consistently and i can just do that all day to edgeguard without messing up.

u can get into a rhythm with it like with the ledgestall, and u can also retreat it easily back onto the stage. A real small controller trick that really made a huge difference in my edgeguarding.

Other bad habits u have: i've always thought u run in wavedash back too much, u kinda like get into a rhythm with it at times and it gets really predictable.

and when u do approach u rely too much on running shield. so like half your approaches are running shield, and run in wd back. you r kinda camping out their move and you never really apply any pressure.

try out some hitboxes lol. throw more running wd ftilt and boost grabs into their dash dance. u use dash attacks like this good, its like that but u just hit another button after A and they cant magically just dash dance shield to stop u

your style is solid though, ground based is the way to go, just throw in some stuff to tweak it

i also have a bunch of ground needle stuff to show u that would be too hard to type out

and, omg sliq is amazing at commentary

ZomgNinjah!!!1 · Jan 1, 2010

Your sheik plays alot like mine, but I guess the only thing that caught my attention is that in one of the yoshi's story matches you charged a foward smash, now I dunno if it was to mind game because IMO the intention of that move is not to do fully charged damage because its mad predictable and gimpable (Leaves you pretty open because of the shield/grab opportunity it gives fox) and it takes longer than normal Fsmashes because its two kicks. Another thing that i should suggest is doing a jump needle to get fox while he is doing up B under the ledge because he's below the proximity of a normal needle. But this probably sounds like things you've already learned because 3 years sounds like a long time to improve your sheik (You said they were posted back in 06) feel free to correct me if I was wrong about anything I noticed.

Help Drephen not be a noob!

Drephen

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Big_R

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elvenarrow3000

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Fortress | Sveet

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KirbyKaze

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ZoSo

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Sliq

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4% APR

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Devil Ray

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Spife

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LooksLikePit

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Ryzol_

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SuperMatt

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Mizar

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soap

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