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help beating a friend's marth

pkblaze

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
176
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
i know the match-ups suck for kirby, but i wanna beat him without snake.

he's a reletively sucky marth... he just figured out fair was a beast, and he can't get past the fact that 'marth is the king of high tier!'

still, he kicks my ***

this is on no items, 3-stock, 10-minutes
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Australia
Hello again pkblaze! So you're managing to beat Marth using Snake now? Hmm... but you want more help against Marth using Kirby now? IMO, I'd probably stick with using Snake against a Marth as the match-up apparently is 70:30 in Marth's favor, but I'll try help you nonetheless. Okay where to start...

Okay to start things off, IMO, I think Kirby should be playing defensively in this match-up. Keep an eye out for any openings and punish him for it. That should be the general mindset for the Kirby player. Although, be aware if he intends to miss attacks on purpose because he can trick you and counter you if you're not quick enough to punish him/you think you'll be able to punish him, but he recovers and counters you while you have just initiated your attack. Therefore, I think you should punish him with grabs just to be safe. Kirby's grabs are still useful in this match-up as they can lead into combos which are always good. Although then again, be aware about one of Marth's fatal grab combo's: When you're at 0% and he grabs you: expect him to use the foward throw and a TIPPERED F-Smash immediately after he throws you. (He can sneak in 2 pummels if he wants, but I think they should use only 1 depending on how good your mashing skills are.) If he successfully tippers you, you'll eat 25% damage which is quite a lot of damage. 27%-29% depending on how many pummels he got on you. So avoid early grabs. Once you're around 20% damage, this combo won't work. Also, any mistake you make Marth will punish you with his >B as it does a good amount of damage and has fairly good knock back to it so keep an eye out for that too as a lot of Marth's like to use their >B. If he doesn't use it to punish you, you could just sheildgrab grab him out of it, but it's hard to do since Marth takes a HUGE step foward when he does the attack.

Next point, Marth outranges Kirby BADLY in the air AND on the ground. Sadly, one sucky thing about this match-up is that Marth can just stand there and be campy with his sword because he can almost swat back any attack you use on him. Therefore, I think you're limited to using Kirby's Bair approach to actually get in there and attack Marth. Also, Kirby's only safe move for this match is his ^B because it is one of his moves that has a fair bit of range to it. However, it is fairly predictable so don't use it too much. Of course, Marth can play offensively in this match-up too because he outranges Kirby. Marth's main form of approach is short hop Fairs. I'd recommend powersheilding or avoiding and punish him once he lands. For Marth's grounded approach, they like to use D-tilt. This move is good for him because it's fast, fairly hard to punish, a good poker and they can use it to inch foward if they want as well. However, this approach is easier to avoid because you can just jump over it and hit him from the air. These are 2 moves you should look out for when a Marth is approaching you.

Next for the duration of the match, Kirby will want to stay grounded against Marth. Sadly, Marth is not too willing to fight on ground and wants to keep the fight mostly in the air because of his Godly air game. Don't try to take him on in the air because like I said before, Marth outranges Kirby in the air. You'll just get mauled by his Fair's and get juggled around like crazy if you try and take him on. If the Marth player is good at getting people off the stage using his Fair, you might eat a tippered Dair and will get meteor smashed off the stage in the process. Marth's also like to try this on people who are recovering too. Luckily for you however, this shouldn't happen to you often because of Kirby's good recovery and it is quite hard for good Marth players to accomplish. Since Marth players like to attack from the air, shield whatever he trys to do to you and punish with a grab. Also, I think I may have already mentioned this, but what you're aiming to do is to bait Marth's attacks and punish him for it.

Probably 1 thing Kirby has over Marth is that Kirby can edgegaurd Marth better than what Marth can do to Kirby. Once Marth is knocked off the stage, edgegaurd with your Bair's. Don't give him a chance to return! His recovery is also fairly easy to punish as well. If he doesn't grab the ledge during his ^B, you can punish badly for it. 2 last things you should know about as well: If Marth shields one of your attacks beware of his ^B move out of shield. This move is excellent for retaliation as it is quick which will make it hard for you to block it, has good knockback to it and it has invincibility frames at the start meaning that you can't interrupt him once he starts the attack. Secondly I wouldn't leave your shield out for long either because if Marth manages to hit you with his neutral B move: the shield braker, it'll eat up a LOT of your shield and may break it depending on how large your shield was to begin with. If he breaks your shield, expect to eat a tippered F-Smash or a fully charged shield breaker if your friend isn't good at spacing it properly.

Lastly, neutral stages you want to go against Marth on are Final Destination (To limit his aerial game due to no platforms being there.) or Yoshi's Island Brawl. (IMO, one of Marth's worst neutral stages. Because it's slightly harder for Marth to gimp people here because of the support ghost and that 1 huge platform can get in his way because it tilts.) Umm... probably other stages you want to take Marth to are Skyworld (It's easier to gimp Marth here.) and probably Jungle Japes. (Because it'll be harder for Marth to get Ceiling KO's with his Uair, U-Smash and U-tilt.) I probably wouldn't take Marth to Battle Field or Norfair (My favorite Marth stages BTW. :)) because this will only compliment his air game and Marth has the potential to maul people on top of platforms especially with his U-Smash.

That's all the info I can give you for now and hopefully some of it will help you out in your next battle against Marth using Kirby. Maybe other people can help add to this? I feel like I am missing something...
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Australia
1. Turn away from him.
2. Jump.
3. Bair.
4. Repeat as neccesary.
True. The approaching Bair is one of Kirby's main ways of getting to Marth. Also, it actually gets Kirby in there to deal some damage to him because of it's range and priority. But also, be aware of the fact that Marth can attack Kirby out of his Bair by using either an F-tilt or more likely, using his Fair as both of these moves out range Kirby's Bair because of their large arc attack range and disjointed hitboxes. Therefore, don't get predictable with it. If you use Kirby's Bair too much, Marth can counteract it easily because he can just hit Kirby out of it using one of those mentioned above attacks or he can retaliate by using counter. Overall, I think Kirby should just play defensively against Marth and wait for opening. Once you see that opportunity arise, punish him with a grab + throw. From there, Kirby should be able to get some combos in once he is able to grab and throw Marth.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post, it' s not really worth it copying Marth's special move because Kirby's shield braker has lower range than Marth's. Therefore, Marth can easily out range you with his if both of you happen to use it at the same time. However on the good side, like Marth's shield braker, yours will have those shield eating properties too which can be handy if the Marth player likes to shield a lot.
 

Slasherx

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
876
If he chase you with Fair, then I would recommend Shield grab Marth, and follow up with Uair or Nair as your combo.
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Australia
1. Use Snake TL
Um, Marth has an advantage against T.Link. Apparently the match-up is 60:40 in Marth's favor. The 1 thing T.Link has over Marth is that he can keep Marth away with his good projectile game by technically creating a wall of projectiles. However, once Marth gets past that, T.Link is pretty much screwed because Marth out ranges him and has quicker attacks. Also, T.Link has only 1 move which outranges Marth (Apart from his projectiles.) which is his Zair. FYI, Marth's jab or even Fair can cancel these projectiles if timed properly. Therefore IMO, I think that Snake should be used against Marth instead of T.Link.
 

Lemonwater

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
664
He's talking about Kirby, so don't recommend that he uses other characters lol

If he really is a sucky Marth, you should be able to catch him a few times with your Up+B projectile. Not what I recommend, but Marth outranges and outprioritizes you with most attacks. Using B to deal a tiny bit of damage and spitting him under the ledge may work. Your dash attack is also better than his I think. Also use your f-tilt and u-tilt a lot rather than smashes since Marth's attacks are faster than your smashes. Grabs. Use them A LOT. And pummel once or twice before throwing him if you can. Try to vary your attacks to avoid counters.
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Australia
He's talking about Kirby, so don't recommend that he uses other characters lol

If he really is a sucky Marth, you should be able to catch him a few times with your Up+B projectile. Not what I recommend, but Marth outranges and outprioritizes you with most attacks. Using B to deal a tiny bit of damage and spitting him under the ledge may work. Your dash attack is also better than his I think. Also use your f-tilt and u-tilt a lot rather than smashes since Marth's attacks are faster than your smashes. Grabs. Use them A LOT. And pummel once or twice before throwing him if you can. Try to vary your attacks to avoid counters.
Oh at the beginning of his post, pkblaze mentioned that he can defeat Marth with ease using Snake. But I'm assuming that A1lion835 told pkblaze not to use Snake, but to use T.Link instead. That's where I posted next saying that Snake should be used instead of T.Link for obvious reasons. I already knew about this person originally wanting help using Kirby, but I'm just justifying why Snake should be used instead of T.Link.
 

Blue Flash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
137
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Kicking *** with Sheik
Suck him up and send his Shield Breaker back to him!

...That's what you shouldn't do. Here's what you SHOULD do:

Note: I don't have much experience against good Marths. One of my friends(not the one who demands items on) is a good Marth, so I'll tell you what I can.

The best way to approach Marth is to use Bair, or Final Cutter. If he uses Counter, Sidestep Dodge/Airdodge. Try to be as close to Marth as you can, because he's less of a threat up close. Beware his grabs, though. His grab game is pretty bad, but a Grab Release can lead to a Tippered F-Smash. When he uses Side B, shield grab and throw him. Do not chase him in the air after you've thrown him(his air game is superior to yours).

One thing you should know is that Marth can use his UpB out of shield, so try not to use any laggy attacks, because he WILL Counter or Shield it. I'd worry more about Shield, cuz his UpB has good knockback, and invincibility frames at the start. At least with Counter you can just roll out of the way.

Also try to swallow him and spit him oout of Final D. His recovery has good priority, but as a recovery, it isn't too great. If he doesn't grab the ledge after using it, punish him.

Well, that's all the experience I have. Hope I helped! :D
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
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Lurking the Kirby Social thread with my rock buds.
Um, Marth has an advantage against T.Link. Apparently the match-up is 60:40 in Marth's favor. The 1 thing T.Link has over Marth is that he can keep Marth away with his good projectile game by technically creating a wall of projectiles. However, once Marth gets past that, T.Link is pretty much screwed because Marth out ranges him and has quicker attacks. Also, T.Link has only 1 move which outranges Marth (Apart from his projectiles.) which is his Zair. FYI, Marth's jab or even Fair can cancel these projectiles if timed properly. Therefore IMO, I think that Snake should be used against Marth instead of T.Link.
Whoops. I just usually use TL against a bunch of good marths I play (and win). I forgot he's at a disadvantage...
 

Lemonwater

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
664
Oh at the beginning of his post, pkblaze mentioned that he can defeat Marth with ease using Snake. But I'm assuming that A1lion835 told pkblaze not to use Snake, but to use T.Link instead. That's where I posted next saying that Snake should be used instead of T.Link for obvious reasons. I already knew about this person originally wanting help using Kirby, but I'm just justifying why Snake should be used instead of T.Link.
Yeah, I wasn't just referring to you haha.

Kirby vs Marth is a tough one...I played Marth today with my bad Kirby and I barely won. You really have to rely on edge guarding and wall of pain. :(
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Australia
Yeah, I wasn't just referring to you haha.

Kirby vs Marth is a tough one...I played Marth today with my bad Kirby and I barely won. You really have to rely on edge guarding and wall of pain. :(
Yeah I know. ANYWAY it shouldn't really matter now. Yes Kirby against a Marth does suck, your best bet to win this match is to play defensively and punish him with grabs + throws. Also if you're trying to approach him, Bair is Kirby's only good option. But sadly, Marth can hit Kirby out of it using either an F-tilt or Fair. So I wouldn't try to approach much if I were you.

Whoops. I just usually use TL against a bunch of good marths I play (and win). I forgot he's at a disadvantage...
Sometimes at the beginning of the match and depending on how large the stage is, T.Link is normally already in a advantage position. This is because he can already set up his fortress of projectiles. Once this happens, Marth will have some trouble getting around it. Once T.Link is able to set up his wall of projectiles, you MUST keep running away from Marth if you want to avoid him getting close to you. The bigger the stage, the easier it will be. However once Marth gets in there, T.Link is pretty much screwed until you can find a way to get out of Marth's range again. Zair should be a little bit helpful for this.

Well A1lion835, guess we both made a mistake. (You KNOW the mistake I made...) So I guess that evens things out for the both of us. ;) FOR NOW...*Waits for A1lion835 to make another mistake...*

I'm gonna jump in real quick and note for like all of Kirby's bad match ups TL is a bad pick.

Pick Snake
Camp
Profit
Of course then again, you could take the easier option above and destroy Marth completely. Especially if the Snake player uses their grenades wisely. (It happened to me once. My Marth NEVER looked the same again for a while...:( ) Just remember: DO NOT TAKE ON MARTH IF HE IS ATTACKING YOU IN THE AIR. Marth utterly destroys Snake in the air. *cough*SNAKE SUCKS IN THE AIR!*cough* Also, don't forget to use Snake's godly ranged tilts so you can proceed to get the kill on him. ;) (Ahh... My poor Marth... I'll never forget what that Snake did to you... We'll get revenge next time we see a good one. OH, YES WE WILL... REVENGE SHALL BE OURS! :evil: )
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Australia
Um... I'll pretend that I know the mistake you made.
You don't remember?! It was only yesterday that it happenend! I'll give you a hint: it starts with the letter S and 4 more letters follow it and it applies to benefiting Kirby so he can win fights more easily.

Do you know what that mistake is which I made now?
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Stick... steak... STEAK! With the help of the Almighty Steak tier (Sonic), we will vanquish!

More on topic:

I didn't know about the Fthrow to Fsmash combo... fun...

You generally make good points, but you left some things out:

-Marth can do 2 Fairs in one SH. I believe he can also do an approaching SH Fair followed by a retreating Fair using his double jump, which is pretty much unpunishable (though I'm not sure. He may have to full hop for that.)

-Combos in general will not work. Marth can UpB out of literally everything (though it may not always be advantageous, depending on the situation).

-Marth can outrange everything without moving. Ftilt eliminates all our potential approach/spacing options, Dtilt is his spacing tool, and Utilt eliminates every aerial option other than Bair, which Ftilt covers.

-A crouching Marth can spam Dtilt very fast, as it has almost no ending/startup lag, if any, and it outranges everything we have on te ground. Don't approach because he whiffs one, you will be hit by another, unless he feels something more powerful woud be better. Also, don't roll behind a Dtilting Marth, as that is what they want. You get a dancing blade to the face. DB starts incredibly fast and does a fair bit of damage.

-A recovering Marth is harder to hit than you make it sound. Marth can spam a few Fairs during/before his second jump to ward you off and still make it back. Also, while his UpB can be interrupted, it's about as easy to interrupt as SL. Basically, it's doable, and not overly complicated, but you absolutely cannot hit the front of him, or he will recover and you take damage.

-The spike is usually pretty telegraphed. If I'm getting hit by it offstage, then I was probably getting killed so bad that, psychologically speaking, I was already out of the match. Also, that move has so much ending lag (for a Marth move) that if he misses, it can be punished fairly easily.

-If you throw out obvious Fsmashes, having them countered will kill you very fast.

Ugh... I started talking to my GF about 3/4ths way into this and now I ave completely lost my train of thought... I'll edit this if I think of more to add...
 

lockdown7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
54
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Gilbert, AZ
Bair is effective against marth, but only if used in the correct manner. The best way to utilize it is to make just that your elevation is slightly hiher than his in the air. You then wait for the fair, nair, bair, whatever he is using, and then punish him. Kirbys falling speed is incredibly quick and if your reflexes are fast enough you can drop in that bair right after he starts his aerial attacks.

Marth, imo is easiest when playing on smashville and yoshi's island (out of the neutrals). Stick to camping under the platform and do a lot of spot dodging and utilts. This makes the gameplay for him really choppy and he must improvise to punish you. I don't see this matchup as bad as most people tend to.
 

DFat2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
284
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PR
This match up is relatively easy:

1. Pick Characters (Kirby Vs. Marth)
2. Pick Stages
3. Play
4. When he's near the ledge, unplug is controller port
5. Fsmash him off the stage

You now have a Stock advantage.

If you still can't win...

Well, If he Walls with Fair, Don't approach. Or at least do empty SH's so he thinks your approaching. If he does the Fair Wall where they spam Fair doing fast falls, just wait for when he jumps to do the first Fair and UpB.

When you have literally less damage than he does, it would be stupid for you to approach now wouldn't it?

Try to maintain your damage below his so he's forced to attack/ approach first. Lower the Time to 7 minutes so the matches don't take for ever and to make the possibility for a time match to be existent.

Other than that, watch his spacing and try not to fall for the obvious things mah boi.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
The trick to beating Marth is to know the ranges on all of your attacks, and never ever miss.

Well, If he Walls with Fair, Don't approach. Or at least do empty SH's so he thinks your approaching. If he does the Fair Wall where they spam Fair doing fast falls, just wait for when he jumps to do the first Fair and UpB.
You can hit him with a backair literally at any time while he is walling f-air. B-air will always win as long as you didn't flat out miss, so don't miss. Be quick.

When you have literally less damage than he does, it would be stupid for you to approach now wouldn't it?
Why on earth would you try to camp Marth? That dude is safe pressure/mixup city. The last thing I want is to end up with my back against the edge and half a shield. Do ****ing work on Marths whenever you fight them.

Try to maintain your damage below his so he's forced to attack/ approach first. Lower the Time to 7 minutes so the matches don't take for ever and to make the possibility for a time match to be existent.

Other than that, watch his spacing and try not to fall for the obvious things mah boi.
Yeahuzz

Yeah I know. ANYWAY it shouldn't really matter now. Yes Kirby against a Marth does suck, your best bet to win this match is to play defensively and punish him with grabs + throws. Also if you're trying to approach him, Bair is Kirby's only good option. But sadly, Marth can hit Kirby out of it using either an F-tilt or Fair. So I wouldn't try to approach much if I were you.
Marth can hit Kirby out of his B-air with any move, but only is you miss, so don't miss. Approach whenever you want, just always feel out the timing so you don't keep running into moves, and keep your mixup strong. Kirby's approach against Marth is only limited if the Marth is just sitting there being a knob; in that case just run up to him and shield/go for a crossup/go for a grab/run forward roll back/dash attack. Eventually he'll stop being a knob. Kirby has an OK rushdown and good damage, good enough to approach anyone but the top 3 and make it a good trade if your prediction is good.

categorically lumping characters into basic styles
:( don't do that you maek me sad

Shield-grab A LOT. That's all that I would suggest.
nope

....




ok other protips:

Edgeguarding: Grab the edge, then when he up-B's, do a jump wakeup and immediately hammerize him yeahuzz. Hammer is also good sometimes because Marth can't up-B it due to the pushback on his shield. You can also rock him in the faceeeeeeeeeee. Do work

You can shield all of Marth's side-B, or you can just roll behind after the third hit and f-smash him for free.

DI like a ****ing champion, don't get killed at 70.

maybe more later? Who knows. I'm amazing. Do work.
 

GPEternity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Bay Area, CA
Specifically against sucky fair spamming marths; kirby's omgwtf fsmash comes in real handy.

1- run up to him, just out of his fair reach
2- wait for him to attempt a shdfair
3- fsmash him in the vajj
4- repeat.

throw combos are also handy. and early grab can lead to 30% of damage on marth via fthrow and dthrow followups. bthrow is handy for getting him off the stage if your back is to the edge. uthrow and dthrow are good for popping him in the air.

marth is a great juggler and edgeguarder. him edge guarding you shouldn't be much of a problem since you have your jumps, up-b and rock to adjust your height as necessary to get back on stage.

as for juggles, they work both ways. marth's weakness is below him, he has few attacks that reach well below him, with the only one that comes to mind being his dair. that said, if you get him in the air you can get some good damage tacked on with uairs. if he wises up and tries to dair you, just fake his *** out by jumping at him and dair dodging or jumping but not going very far up. if you can get him to whiff dair, airdodge, or counter you can get free hits in.

also, try to keep your smashes fresh if possible, kirby's got relatively strong smashes despite being a puffball. abuse his poor DI (i assume he has poor DI if hes a sucky marth) with 80% kills off the side using your fsmash.

marth is also vulnerable against edgeguards. so edgeguard him like no tomorrow. jump out at him with bairs, jump up and rock down to the edge (his dolphin slash isn't invincible for very long), or simply grab the edge and force him onto the stage. you can also pull a cheap kill off by jumping out at him and sucking him up then spitting him out low so he can't recover, then use your amazing jumps to get back.

while being juggled; if he comes up after you, you can rock down on his head if hes directly under you, if he follows you up high, use the rock to quickly get to the ground before he does which will reverse the situation in your favor. use your jumps and airdodges as necessary to get past him and in extreme cases, float to the side and use your upB to drop to the edge.

while being edgeguarded, punish any recklessness by sucking him up and spitting him out under the stage. once again upB onto the ledge can be a good option, floating up and going for the stage, anything unexpected can work in your favor here. if your friend is sucky you should have plenty of options.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
GPE knows what's up. Marth can up-B out of your throw combos. Airdodge this for a free upsmash or whatever (nair does 12% wtf FOLLOWSUPS?! get 'em)
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Fromundaman
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Guys... why do you write things without even bothering to check for accuracy, not to mention it seems to rely on you being MUCH more skilled than your opponent?

For example, a perfectly spaced Marth Fair (AKA tipper) will outrange Bair. If you come from slightly above, the first part of the hitbox still hits, it just requires stricter timing. Of course, if my friend who rarely plays Marth can get it down, I'm pretty sure Marth mains can.

Edgeguarding: Grab the edge, then when he up-B's, do a jump wakeup and immediately hammerize him yeahuzz. Hammer is also good sometimes because Marth can't up-B it due to the pushback on his shield.
What the hell does the first part of that mean? Also, Dolphin slash, like MK's grounded SL, has invincibility on startup, so no, it will cut right through a hammer, not to mention the shield pushback gets you in tippered Fsmash range with hammer ending lag.

Why on earth would you try to camp Marth? That dude is safe pressure/mixup city. The last thing I want is to end up with my back against the edge and half a shield. Do ****ing work on Marths whenever you fight them.
I don't think he means projectile camp. If he did, then bad idea. If not, then good idea. Punishing Marth's mistakes, along with shieldgrabs and WoPs are the main three things Kirby can really do to Marth.

Yeah, UpB interrupts throw combos and if you try to juggle Marth in the air, he could just counter, so try to mix it up and bait the counter, then punish (preferably with a giant hammer!).

Yeah, Rock edgeguard is awesome.

Are you sure Fsmash outranges a perfectly spaced Fair? (remember, they can do 2 in one shorthop.)


Dfat1, that strategy is awesome. I think it even orks for other matchups too! Come here Snake...
 

SmileyStation

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
362
Location
South Texas
in my own experience u-tilting after an f-air has not only kept me safe, but has stopped a few strategies from forming. But for me, it has to be right after an f-air. Otherwise, id go straight defensive until ive gotten my ground again. Also, i use tilts in 80% of my playstyle. That is why id rather go that way. But every1 has their own way of attacking.
 

TheFast

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,010
Location
Jacksonville
Heres one thing ive noticed about Marth. Stay low. All of his attacks come from above him and go down. Yes you will still get hit but you are hit latter so when aproaching with an aerial try to do it so than you are lower than normal this alows you more time to retreat therefor increasing you walling abilities. Also down-tilts range is suprisingly sexy ^__^ This match is all about causing little bits of damage and alot of running away. Pretend like your playing Lucas. I recomend not playing defensive, because Marth is so good at advancing, but not playing aggressive, as kirby does not have the offensive abilities to play agressive against Marth.

I hope I got all that right >_>
 

GPEternity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Bay Area, CA
Guys... why do you write things without even bothering to check for accuracy, not to mention it seems to rely on you being MUCH more skilled than your opponent?

For example, a perfectly spaced Marth Fair (AKA tipper) will outrange Bair. If you come from slightly above, the first part of the hitbox still hits, it just requires stricter timing. Of course, if my friend who rarely plays Marth can get it down, I'm pretty sure Marth mains can.



What the hell does the first part of that mean? Also, Dolphin slash, like MK's grounded SL, has invincibility on startup, so no, it will cut right through a hammer, not to mention the shield pushback gets you in tippered Fsmash range with hammer ending lag.



I don't think he means projectile camp. If he did, then bad idea. If not, then good idea. Punishing Marth's mistakes, along with shieldgrabs and WoPs are the main three things Kirby can really do to Marth.

Yeah, UpB interrupts throw combos and if you try to juggle Marth in the air, he could just counter, so try to mix it up and bait the counter, then punish (preferably with a giant hammer!).

Yeah, Rock edgeguard is awesome.

Are you sure Fsmash outranges a perfectly spaced Fair? (remember, they can do 2 in one shorthop.)


Dfat1, that strategy is awesome. I think it even orks for other matchups too! Come here Snake...
He mentioned his friend is a sucky marth to begin with, so why not suggest little cheap quick fixes for said sucky marth? better to know the cheap tricks as well as solid tactics :p

im fairly sure kirby's fsmash can hit a spaced fair, especially if they're going for the double fair approach. maybe not out of shield but if he whiffs the first fair kirby should have enough to fsmash him thanks to that huge lunge he takes. alternatively, kirby can duck under a shfair can't he?
 

fromundaman

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He mentioned his friend is a sucky marth to begin with, so why not suggest little cheap quick fixes for said sucky marth? better to know the cheap tricks as well as solid tactics :p

im fairly sure kirby's fsmash can hit a spaced fair, especially if they're going for the double fair approach. maybe not out of shield but if he whiffs the first fair kirby should have enough to fsmash him thanks to that huge lunge he takes. alternatively, kirby can duck under a shfair can't he?
Oops... my bad, I read the OP a few weeks back, then got redirected to this a day or two ago to comment on the matchup. Kind of forgot he mentioned the Marth sucking.

As for the ducking, no idea. For the Fsmash, that's good to know!
 

TheFast

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He cant if the Marth spaces it right. The Fair hits above marth a little but primairly bottum and in front of him. It not a full sword length away under him but about halve of his full range.
 

Doomblaze

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One of my friends is a bad Kirby, so ill tell you how he tries to pwn me.

Shield Grab his face off. If he isnt spacing his Fairs properly, then thats all you need to do, down throw to u-tilt to u-air to down throw to lol-in-his-face.
If you space it right, you may be able to get under or behind him after he Fairs when hes a lot weaker.
Punish his shield with Bair and dash attack.
Try to get below him, bait his airdodges and rock/hammer/Uair him for the kills

It is a really bad matchup for you. but just get used to it, if you're better than him you should do fine.
 
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