Heir to the Monado. Shulk General Discussion/Social Thread

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Oh boy...



So your criteria for supporting the original protagonist is... they have to be big (i.e. successful)... people wanting them in (i.e. popularity)... and because it's a new IP (which matters **** all to Sakurai, he doesn't give new IPs priority. If anything, most aren't proven enough to him... or i.e. recency).

Well let's see here DSN... you support Matthew over teenage Isaac and Isa over Saki, do you not? Yet teenage Isaac is more popular than Matthew (more people wanting him), both Isaac's games were "bigger" than Matthew's by at least three times. Saki is also more popular than Isa, and his game's release on the VC was the whole reason the second, which bombed hard btw, was even made. Even on the VC, it was more successful. So both original protagonists of these two series are more popular and more successful, and in Isaac's case, were the protagonist more than once (even if shared). They meet two of your three criteria, yet you support the other candidate. Hmm.

As for recency, yes, that is where Matthew and Isa are the choice, but one, Marth should prove recency doesn't take top priority, and two, wouldn't that mean you should support the protagonist of X, if it is directly related to Xenoblade, over Shulk? I mean, recency is the reason you support the other two, you've convinced yourself it's the determining factor to Sakurai (which... it isn't), you can't just abandon your logic when it doesn't suit your bias DSN.

If you want to stick to your old logic, there's no reason why the Shulk would get in over the X protag, unless teenage Isaac and Saki also get in over their counterparts. You contradicted yourself majorly, and put a huge whole in your logic. The only defense now really is to admit your bias, which was pretty obvious from the beginning anyway...



Sakurai was adding characters last year. He goes to, or at least consults, the development teams when adding characters. If he were to add Shulk, he would've had to have come into contact with Monolith. Last year X would've existed in some stage, Sakurai has been aware of it since last year, if he did contact Monolith at all for Smash. Not that I think the new protagonist would be added over Shulk either (for very different reasons), but it's not too late.



...it shouldn't. Makes your opinions looks even less credible than before, which is saying something.

Well I guess I am biased for some characters then, well, depending on the franchise I guess. But the same thing applies to everyone on this board, like you for Isaac.

Isaac and Saki are possible, but I usually give my reasons for why I see their sons. They are still possible but so are their sons, yet everyone counts them out entirely. Isaac I could see because of being in more games, but that luxury doesn't apply to Saki. He is in the same amount of games as his son. We could potentially get Isaac and Isa as the choices. It is a possible choice as well.

Being late could depend on the franchise, Roy wasn't even out yet and Lucario was only like a year old (if even that) from Gen 4. X's protagonist could be picked, if Sakurai really wanted it, but he might not be entirely going out to get characters. I am sure he is though, but who really knows.

 

[N3ON]

Well I guess I am biased for some characters then, well, depending on the franchise I guess. But the same thing applies to everyone on this board, like you for Isaac.

Thing is, most people try not to let their bias effect their judgment. Or at least do a better job than you. Sure, I'm biased towards Isaac, but I've never stated that he is guaranteed, that he's the only possible choice from GS, ignored valid points against him, refused to acknowledge characters with better chances than him, or anything to that extent. I've said his chances are up-in-the-air, and it wouldn't be surprising if he wasn't included. I also don't go parading around my biases like you do with yours.

Isaac and Saki are possible, but I usually give my reasons for why I see their sons. They are still possible but so are their sons, yet everyone counts them out entirely. Isaac I could see because of being in more games, but that luxury doesn't apply to Saki. He is in the same amount of games as his son. We could potentially get Isaac and Isa as the choices. It is a possible choice as well.

Yeah, but the thing is, two of your three criteria are met by Isaac and Saki better than Matthew and Isa. You should be talking about teenage Isaac and Saki instead of Matthew and Isa, by your logic. Or else support the X protag instead of Shulk, because it doesn't go both ways. I never said Matthew and Isa were impossible, they're just less likely, but by your logic, Isaac and Saki have more for them than their children do (which I agree with - for different reasons), yet you think their children are more likely. Doesn't make sense.

Being late depends on the franchise, Roy wasn't even out yet and Lucario was only like a year old (if even that) from Gen 4.

Yeah, and RPGs with changing casts (like Xenoblade and X) are one of the types of franchise Sakurai has shown being "late" can still get you on the roster. Let's look at the characters that were added to the roster before their "main" game came out. Roy, Lucario, and Lucas. All RPGs, all rotating/changing casts. Same as Xenoblade/X.

X's protagonist could be picked, if Sakurai really wanted it, but he might not be entirely going out to get characters. I am sure he is though, but who really knows.

What does this even mean? Of course Sakurai is out to get characters, he needs new characters for Smash. If he's not going to go to Monolith for characters, he's not going to get Shulk either.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Thing is, most people try not to let their bias effect their judgment. Or at least do a better job than you. Sure, I'm biased towards Isaac, but I've never stated that he is guaranteed, that he's the only possible choice from GS, ignored valid points against him, refused to acknowledge characters with better chances than him, or anything to that extent. I've said his chances are up-in-the-air, and it wouldn't be surprising if he wasn't included. I also don't go parading around my biases like you do with yours.



Yeah, but the thing is, two of your three criteria are met by Isaac and Saki better than Matthew and Isa. You should be talking about teenage Isaac and Saki instead of Matthew and Isa, by your logic. Or else support the X protag instead of Shulk, because it doesn't go both ways. I never said Matthew and Isa were impossible, they're just less likely, but by your logic, Isaac and Saki have more for them than their children do (which I agree with - for different reasons), yet you think their children are more likely. Doesn't make sense.



Yeah, and RPGs with changing casts (like Xenoblade and X) are one of the types of franchise Sakurai has shown being "late" can still get you on the roster. Let's look at the characters that were added to the roster before their "main" game came out. Roy, Lucario, and Lucas. All RPGs, all rotating/changing casts. Same as Xenoblade/X.



What does this even mean? Of course Sakurai is out to get characters, he needs new characters for Smash. If he's not going to go to Monolith for characters, he's not going to get Shulk either.

1. Yeah, I have to work on that, but at least it is for only a few franchises. Although characters do get brought up quite a bit by some people on here.

2. Yeah, some criteria might be better for them. That doesn't entirely count out the sons, that they have no criteria that they meet as well. Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment are different from the likes of a Fire Emblem or Pokemon though. Could go either way, but each do have their own criteria. What I see in Shulk does apply to Isaac and Saki, sure, but that doesn't guarantee that they will or will not get in over Matthew, Isa, and X.

3. I see where you are getting at with the RPGs. But was Lucas really added before his game came out?

4. Yeah, that part kind of came out wrong and I don't even understand it myself. He does go after characters, but there could be times when they come to him. More so the first I believe, but some stuff is up to the creators.

 

[N3ON]

1. Yeah, I have to work on that, but at least it is for only a few franchises. Although characters do get brought up quite a bit by some people on here.

And people don't like when they do it either.

2. Yeah, some criteria might be better for them. That doesn't entirely count out the sons, that they have no criteria that they meet as well. Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment are different from the likes of a Fire Emblem or Pokemon though. Could go either way, but each do have their own criteria. What I see in Shulk does apply to Isaac and Saki, sure, but that doesn't guarantee that they will or will not get in over Matthew, Isa, and X.

Alright, but by your logic you should either be supporting Isaac, Saki, and Shulk, or Matthew, Isa, and "X". You can't mix and match considering you ideologies.

3. I see where you are getting at with the RPGs. But was Lucas really added before his game came out?

Yes, Lucas was added in 05, and his game came out in 06. He was also planned to be added early to Melee, but his game got delayed/canceled.

4. Yeah, that part kind of came out wrong and I don't even understand it myself. He does go after characters, but there could be times when they come to him. More so the first I believe, but some stuff is up to the creators.

To my knowledge Sakurai has only been approached by one third-party, not any Nintendo parties. And Monolith worked on Brawl, if there was any time they would've requested a character, it would've been then, not now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sniper's logic confuses me.

 

[N3ON]

Sniper's logic confuses me.

That's cause it's practically non-existent.

 

[FalKoopa]

Sniper's logic confuses me.

Because it isn't logic at all.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Sniper's logic confuses me.

It confuses me sometimes too

And people don't like when they do it either.

Alright, but by your logic you should either be supporting Isaac, Saki, and Shulk, or Matthew, Isa, and "X". You can't mix and match considering you ideologies.

Yes, Lucas was added in 05, and his game came out in 06. He was also planned to be added early to Melee, but his game got delayed/canceled.

To my knowledge Sakurai has only been approached by one third-party, not any Nintendo parties. And Monolith worked on Brawl, if there was any time they would've requested a character, it would've been then, not now.

1. Ok

2. Well, sure, I can see that. But it is not like character inclusions have not been mixed before or could not. Just saying.

3. I remember that, he was supposed to replace Ness.

4. Well I could see that.

 

[Frostwraith]

Presenting an argument, then using a justification that contradicts it is a recipe for disaster.

Mixing that with bias and deranged logic, it becomes a Salty wound.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

That's cause it's practically non-existent.

Hey, at least give me some credit.

Because it isn't logic at all.

It sometimes is, just like everyone else

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wonder why Sniper liked the comment on my confusion pertaining to his non-existent logic.

Spoiler

And yes that was meant to be phrased funny.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Presenting an argument, then using a justification that contradicts it is a recipe for disaster.

Mixing that with bias and deranged logic, it becomes a Salty wound.

The thing about this is that not every franchise in Smash Bros (the characters included) are added for the same reasons. What applies to one character or franchise being in does not always apply to another.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The thing about this is that not every franchise in Smash Bros (the characters included) are added for the same reasons. What applies to one character or franchise being in does not always apply to another.

But you can see trends and similarities that are present in each series like N30N pointed out.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I wonder why Sniper liked the comment on my confusion pertaining to his non-existent logic.

Spoiler

And yes that was meant to be phrased funny.

Because I agree with you guys sometimes, that my logic might not be the best in some situations.

But don't worry, I am trying.

 

[FalKoopa]

Thing is, DSN is using the wrong logic at the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong franchise,

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thing is, DSN is using the wrong logic at the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong franchise,

On the wrong boards.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

But you can see trends and similarities that are present in each series like N30N pointed out.

Sure, I can see them. It certainly would work in most/some situations. But does that mean it is always like that?

We are 3 games into the franchise, and there "could" be some formulas to look on. Each person sees it differently though.

Just saying.

 

[N3ON]

I2. Well, sure, I can see that. But it is not like character inclusions have not been mixed before or could not. Just saying.

I wasn't talking about the characters' actual chances, because there Isaac, Saki, and Shulk are clearly ahead, I was referring to your logic, which, going by what you've said previously, shouldn't be mixed.

Hey, at least give me some credit.

I will give you credit that you are the person people probably disagree with the most that has yet to absorb any of their logic or suggestions. I give credit where credit is due.

The thing about this is that not every franchise in Smash Bros (the characters included) are added for the same reasons. What applies to one character or franchise being in does not always apply to another.

Your predictions shouldn't weigh on the off-chance Sakurai does something he's never done before or something that doesn't make any sense.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Thing is, DSN is using the wrong logic at the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong franchise,

Teach me the ways of the logic, I will be your padawan

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I wasn't talking about the characters' actual chances, because there Isaac, Saki, and Shulk are clearly ahead, I was referring to your logic, which, going by what you've said previously, shouldn't be mixed.

I will give you credit that you are the person people probably disagree with the most that has yet to absorb any of their logic or suggestions. I give credit where credit is due.

Your predictions shouldn't weigh on the off-chance Sakurai does something he's never done before or something that doesn't make any sense.

1. Ok then

2. I have actually absorbed the thoughts, logic, and suggestions of other people. From here and elsewhere. There are characters I consider now that I never would have considered before.

3. They are not, I am just saying it is a possibility.

 

[Frostwraith]

Teach me the ways of the logic, I will be your padawan

You can start learning about logical fallacies right here.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

You can start learning about logical fallacies right here.

pft. As if anyone uses those here.

If I were to point out every time somebody used the strawman, I'd be banned for spamming threads. *exaggeration*

 

[N3ON]

Teach me the ways of the logic, I will be your padawan

1. Recency is not the be all and end all. Popularity, relevance to the series as a whole, and iconicness matter more.

2. Present what you believe is the most likely option as your serious prediction, not some unlikely possibility.

3. Stop bringing up Micaiah, it's not gonna happen. Keep your biases to your wishlist if everyone is telling you they aren't going to happen.

4. Don't get caught tripping over your own logic.

5. Rinse and repeat.

More lessons later.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

1. Recency is not the be all and end all. Popularity, relevance to the series as a whole, and iconicness matter more.

2. Present what you believe is the most likely option as your serious prediction, not some unlikely possibility.

3. Stop bringing up Micaiah, it's not gonna happen.

4. Don't get caught tripping over your own logic.

5. Rinse and repeat.

More lessons later.

1. Ok

2. I see

3. I thought we didn't work in guarantees?

4. Will do

 

[N3ON]

3. I thought we didn't work in guarantees?

If I'm wrong you can revert back to whatever logical pattern you want to when Micaiah is confirmed.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

If not for Micaiah, I would support Robin. I have said this before in the Fire Emblem discussion.

Most likely a more possible choice, but does give us a new class.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If I didn't support Mewtwo, I would be in full support of Magikarp

 

[TheHandyman]

I think Shulk has a pretty high chance of appearing in Smash Bros. 4. I kinda expect him to be one of the first newcomers revealed. If he does show up, though, what other elements from Xenoblade will come with him?

A stage, obviously.

Music. Let's hope they don't limit themselves to just a handful of songs. Xenoblade's got one awesome soundtrack. I hope for a dozen songs or more! They don't even need to remix 'em or anything. Just stick the same music in there again.

An item. Probably one of the other characters' weapons. I was thinking Reyn's scrap driver could work. I don't think we've had another item like it in Smash Bros. before.

An Assist Trophy. The robot would be best, I think. Like in the game itself, the robot could have several different attacks that the game randomly chooses as soon as the Assist Trophy capsule breaks. Like Sword Drones X, which would instantly KO some poor sap. Or Final Cross, which could do heavy damage in a line. Are there any other Assist Trophies which have different effects upon release? I can't think of any, but I don't remember all of them very well.

The rest of the playable cast would appear as regular trophies in the Xenoblade category.

Oh, and the game's final boss (clad in the Bionis's armor) would make an excellent boss in whatever story mode they might be doing this time.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As long as the Bionis's Leg theme is in, i'm all set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NLrE2R-5eo

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So here's a new topic. If Shulk gets in, what are the possibilities that he stays a member of the roster in future installments.

Considering no series has been removed completely, i'd like to think Shulk would stick around. But Xenoblade (unless remade or if Shulk appears in "X" or a sequel) will be near ancient by the time Smash 5 is even announced. That's a tough one for me.

 

[FalKoopa]

Seeing that Shulk is 1st party, I'm sure that if he gets in, he will stay, unless they face those time-constraints or anything like that.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I wouldn't worry about that. Lucas and Ness are from the EarthBound series which concluded in 2006. Neither retro nor recent, but I suspect at least one of them will be sticking around... I doubt they'd start killing off Xeno characters just because they're only "semi" recent.

 

[SmashChu]

So here's a new topic. If Shulk gets in, what are the possibilities that he stays a member of the roster in future installments.

Considering no series has been removed completely, i'd like to think Shulk would stick around. But Xenoblade (unless remade or if Shulk appears in "X" or a sequel) will be near ancient by the time Smash 5 is even announced. That's a tough one for me.

The only character not planned to come back, at all, was Pichu. From this, we can say Sakurai is not for cutting characters. It's unlikely that Shulk would be removed down the road. Plus, relevancy never mattered that much.

The only time I expect a series to be removed is in the case of third parties for obvious reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

Not really a supporter of Shulk, but didn't Monolith Soft say that they wanted to see Shulk in Smash 4?

I know they said it sometimes in January of this year. I think that Monolith Soft would try to push for Shulk's inclusion for Smash 4.

I'd be surprised if Shulk was left out of this game. Looks to be the most likely misc. series newcomer.

 

[kikaru]

Here's my two cents on Shulk's moveset though it will be very similar to SmashChu's.

B: Slit Edge
B>: Shaker Edge (Can cause stun)
B^: Air Slash
Bv: Shadow Eye/Backslash (This move acts like counter in that Shulk will disappear, appear behind the enemy, and use Backslash)

Final Smash: Monado Arts (Each usable once or until time runs out)
B: Monado Buster
B>: Purge (Seals an opponents Special Attacks briefly)
B^: Cyclone
Bv: Shield (Blocks a talent art/ smash attack. Acts similar to having Starman)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not really a supporter of Shulk, but didn't Monolith Soft say that they wanted to see Shulk in Smash 4?

It was only vaguely mentioned by Tetsuya Takahashi's(?) wife, who said that she hopes for Shulk in Super Smash Bros.

It doesn't necessarily mean that we'll get the character guaranteed, but it is encouraging that official staff at Monolith Soft do support the idea of Shulk in Super Smash Bros.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Given the big outcry for Xenoblade to come to the US and the fact the game has a sequel in the works, the only thing I can think of that would prevent it from showing up is trademark issues if any exist. If nothing else then at least it'd appear in that big list on games Nintendo published. Even the Hamtromo games showed up on that.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well Nintendo owns Monolith Soft right? So there wouldn't be any trademark issues in that case.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Alright, I made a specials moveset for Shulk that paints him as a unique fighter with some interesting mechanics taken from his game, Xenoblades.

Essentially, in the game there is a chain of status effects that are used to leave enemies vulnerable to damage. It goes from Break (does nothing) to Topple (enemy takes more damage) to Daze (in Xenoblades, it left them unable to attack. In Smash, it'd leave them unable to use specials).

The specials draw entirely from his actual moves in the game with a little bit of liberty taken with Shadow Eye to make it a counter. Since I've never played Xenoblades, the action described might not match the game.

SHULK​

UP, Air Slash​

Hefts his Monado up, knocking foes in front of him upward. He then leaps into the sky to follow and then slashes in the direction indicated by the player (with neutral/side slashing horizontally, up slashing upwards to knock foes up, down to slash downwards to knock foes down).

Successfully hitting with the aerial slash inflicts "Break" on enemies, making them glow pink. Break does nothing on its own, but is the first step in a chain of status effects inflicted by other specials.

NEUTRAL, Cyclone​

The Monado's blade changes to a white colored form and golden ether particles starts gathering around Shulk, who then raises his blade and releases the gathered ether in a powerful explosion creating a rushing column of air that damages all enemies around him.

Enemies suffering Break will be Toppled. Toppled foes glow red and take more damage from attacks.

SIDE, Shaker Edge​

The Monado flashes and, after a moment, leaps forward and slashes powerfully, scattering foes.

Enemies who are Toppled then become Dazed. Dazed enemies glow black and cannot use their special attacks until the effect wears off and still take extra damage as if Toppled.

DOWN, Shadow Eye​

A unique counter. He side steps a melee attack and hits the enemy with the hilt of his Monado, knocking them down and making them vulnerable (essentially a trip). Shulk's blade starts to glow and the next attack Shulk performs will deal extra damage and knockback.
If he uses Shadow Eye and nobody attacks him, he will concentrate for a couple seconds where he is left vulnerable, but if left uninterrupted his blade will still start to glow to enhance his next attack.

All status effects fade after 5 seconds if not converted to another effect.

 

[SmashChu]

Not sure why all of his movesets use the arts as the special moves. He does have the Monado Arts too.