Heir to the Monado. Shulk General Discussion/Social Thread

[Banjodorf]

I think the only logical way without it being unbelievable gamebreaking or stupid is a final smash, where he sees the Mechonis smashing the stage or something, and jumps out of the way in time. Otherwise, it's certainly something that makes him generally interesting, but not really something that would tie in well to a fighting game, and particularly not one like Smash.

He has many other traits that do that though, not the least of which is the Monado itself.

 

[FlareHabanero]

An extension of the dodging and blocking mechanics would do nicely.

 

[Deleted member]

An extension of the dodging and blocking mechanics would do nicely.

Can you explain your ideas on how this would work? I'm pretty interested.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Can you explain your ideas on how this would work? I'm pretty interested.

Basically Shulk would have an expansion of dodging, blocking, and countering. There would be two versions of it, the first version would be Shulk would randomly get a vision, signalized by him flashing white for a second and his eyes glow, and then the traditional dodging mechanics are given extended options.

-The side step will be modified to now act like a counter that will either preform a straight forward counter attack or act as a grab reversal
-The rolls would have extended range, speed,and invincibility, and Shulk can cancel the middle of the roll to preform an attack.
-Shields are guaranteed to be a Perfect Shield and are automatically fully restored.
-Air dodges become modified to become an attack designed to break out of combos.

The second version is the visions you can control. Based on the concept KumaOso provided of you basically working to get your Monado Arts with handling the Talent Gauge, you can sacrifice a portion of the Talent Gauge using the down special to get a vision instead.

You can only preform one action per vision. Basically there's a manual vs. automatic battle going on here, and you have to use this skill effectively and carefully.

 

[Spazzy_D]

the Monado doesn't work on any (sentient, as far as I can tell) beings from Bionis, .

You know, it's not just sentient beings..... those Tirkin and Ignas were smart enough to plan and use tools, but I had no problem cutting them down. Seems like it probably should also work on Nopon, but who knows.

 

[SkittleE]

Maybe just things that aren't covered in fur/feathers/scales? It is a little confusing.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Well, when the idea is introduced, the term used is "people," so I guess it's probably the beings from Bionis who are considered to be its people. Maybe the tirkin and ignas weren't advanced enough to meet this criteria, but they were getting there?

Spoiler

It makes sense when you consider that it seems that the Monado's ability to damage Bionis's creatures or anything for that matter is decided by Zanza. Even if the difference is actually arbitrary, the only thing that matters is the way he sees it.

But this raises another question. Why is the Monado even at any point incapable of harming the Bionis's people? What does Zanza gain from that?

As far as Shulk's prediction ability goes, I think it would be the most fun as a Final Smash that doesn't exactly make sense lore-wise. I see it like this:

Upon pressing B, the screen flashes blue and the players are treated to a vision of Shulk using a very powerful and screen- covering Monado Cyclone. The countdown timer from the original game appears, and stays on the screen as gameplay resumes. At this point, the other players must resolve with one another that they can change the future! If Shulk is KO'd, the attack is averted.

It should probably be a bit more complex than that for balance purposes, but I don't feel the need to go into such detail considering that this is just a hypothetical.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well, when the idea is introduced, the term used is "people," so I guess it's probably the beings from Bionis who are considered to be its people. Maybe the tirkin and ignas weren't advanced enough to meet this criteria, but they were getting there?

Spoiler

It makes sense when you consider that it seems that the Monado's ability to damage Bionis's creatures or anything for that matter is decided by Zanza. Even if the difference is actually arbitrary, the only thing that matters is the way he sees it.

But this raises another question. Why is the Monado even at any point incapable of harming the Bionis's people? What does Zanza gain from that?

Well, that's certainly an interesting thought. Spoilers below.

Spoiler

Obviously, you'd think the 3 civilized races of Bionis, Homs, Noppon and High Entia would be the ones considered to be untouchable by the Monado based on what's established.

Although, after dealing with Zanza later in the game, I'm sort of wondering why the Monado 1 couldn't damage the High Entia, but could damage Telethia, since Zanza obviously considered the Telethia a higher form of life than the High Entia. He was kind of a prick that way. ...I wonder what Zanza actually thought of the Noppon, come to think of it.

It's probably for game mechanics purposes, since it was a good time to teach you about the Telethia saying a big ol' **** you to Shulk's visions, but damn. Way to confuse me, Zanza.

 

[Sol_Vent]

After a bit of reading, I have a few new spoilerrific ideas about this.

Spoiler

I think the only way this makes sense is if we assume that Zanza had little to no input on its current limitations, possibly by his own choice. This idea is based on things said by Alvis and Zanza. Alvis says the user controls the Monado's power, and Zanza says something like "The power is already yours. Choose your target and the Monado will cut it" when Shulk gets the Monado II. This would mean that the rules of what the Monado can be used against are decided by whoever wields it.

Maybe the High Entia made these rules when sealing it to prevent it being sought as a weapon for war between the people of Bionis, or maybe a homs (Dunban?) unconsciously decided that it shouldn't harm "people" simply because there's no reason it should.

Shulk can't change these rules for no other reason than that he doesn't understand that he can. He accepts the Monado as it is, because "he believes in what he sees." The Monado is his ruby slippers, and Zanza his (pretending to be) good witch.

 

[Banjodorf]

Hmm...definitely one of the most interesting elements of an extremely interesting game. Also: (some major spoilers below)

Spoiler

That's actually a good point. Shulk learned early on that the Monado couldn't harm the peoples of Bionis. It's probably got alot to do with the fact that the Monado probably didn't unleash it's full power for Dunban, obviously, and so the Homs believed it was only capable of destroying Mechon/non civilized things on Bionis. So Shulk locked that into his mind, and since he had the tendency to doubt himself anyway, he was never able to strike Homs/etc. because not only did he not want to, but he didn't think he could.

However, this doesn't explain to me why he couldn't strike Metal Face in the beginning, because before the sword was deflected, he definitely believed he could. He didn't know there was a Homs in there. Unless I'm not putting things in the right order here.

 

[Neo Zero]

Hmm...definitely one of the most interesting elements of an extremely interesting game. Also: (some major spoilers below)

Spoiler

That's actually a good point. Shulk learned early on that the Monado couldn't harm the peoples of Bionis. It's probably got alot to do with the fact that the Monado probably didn't unleash it's full power for Dunban, obviously, and so the Homs believed it was only capable of destroying Mechon/non civilized things on Bionis. So Shulk locked that into his mind, and since he had the tendency to doubt himself anyway, he was never able to strike Homs/etc. because not only did he not want to, but he didn't think he could.

However, this doesn't explain to me why he couldn't strike Metal Face in the beginning, because before the sword was deflected, he definitely believed he could. He didn't know there was a Homs in there. Unless I'm not putting things in the right order here.

Spoiler

didnt he have to get the ability to even hurt the Face suits from Zanza? So it wasn't because he doubted himself, the Monado could not actually harm them at the time

 

[foolssigma]

Always nice to see Shulk pop up in smash 4 prediction videos:

Spoiler

 

[Spazzy_D]

Spoiler

didnt he have to get the ability to even hurt the Face suits from Zanza? So it wasn't because he doubted himself, the Monado could not actually harm them at the time

I don't actually think

Spoiler

any abilities were actually unlocked for the Monado in Prison Island, not technically anyway.

I've been thinking about this and I think I might have figured it out; please let me know if there any holes in my theory. The following contains major spoilers, obviously.

What actually happened in Prison Island:

Spoiler

When we first go to Prison Island it seems as though Zanza unlocks the full potential of the Monado before Metal Face kills him. I don't think this is actually what happens, though. We don't kill Zanza; as we find out later in the game Zanza has been possessing the body of Shulk ever since Shulk died as a child. With this being the case, who are we actually interacting with in Prison Island? Is it the giant Arglas? Yes and no, it is clearly the giants body but he still refers to himself as Zanza.

What seems to me to be happening is that Zanza's essense was split into two different entities when he was locked away by the High Entia (or his essense was naturally divided this way and was just physically separated by them.) Zanza was both in the body of Arglas AND in the Monado. The High Entia separated the two parts of Zanza so that he would not have full access to his abilities, and imprisoned him rather then kill him so that he was not able to find another host body.

When Shulk killed the body of Arglas, Zanza became pure ether and was able to enter Shulk (who himself was being animated by a small portion of Zanza's essence that Dic.kson extracted from the Monado when he first found Shulk.) At this point, Zanza had full access to his power which is why he could harm the peoples of Bionis

As to why it couldn't hurt the people of Bionis in the first place?

Spoiler

Zanza didn't have full control of the weapon until he was whole. I don't think he wanted to risk someone managing to somehow use the weapon and have anything happen to a potential host body or any of his disciples, who were all either High Entia or Homs.

So I THINK this makes sense, but let me know what you think. I'm doing a second play through now, trekking through to get to the heart of the Bionis at the moment. The reveals from there get a little crazy but nothing contradicts what I wrote.... that I can remember. Might revise this later, though.

 

[Pacack]

I would like to thank everyone for keeping things in spoilers.

 

[Tackman91]

Finally got around making an account! Hello Smashboards!

On the topic of the Monado not being able to harm other Smash characters, I don't see how this is a problem since

Spoiler

it could just be the Monado II.

As to why the Monado was unable to harm beings of Bionis in the first place, I like the theories around here, but I believe it is more simple than that.

Spoiler

Zanza probably made it so, so that the Monado couldn't be used against him. After all, Meyneth mentions that freeing the Monado makes it a double-edged sword for Zanza. Zanza probably thought that Shulk's hatred for Meconis would prevent him from turning against the Bionis and Zanza himself, which obviously changed when Shulk learned more about the face mechons and the Machina.

Anyway, I'm a strong supporter of Shulk in Smash 4. Not only was Xenoblade my favourite Wii game, I also think he would be a great addition to the roster due to his uniqueness. While it could be hard to integrate his future sight powers in the game, I'm sure it is a challenge Sakurai is willing to take.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Really, the number one reason for his inclusion is that the game needs more characters with British accents.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

When I first joined this thread had only 6 pages.


I'm so proud of our boy....

 

[Deleted member]

I wish I had my own theories about Xenoblade to share. I just can't think of any! Though, there are many questions that I probably never get the answer to.

When I first joined this thread had only 6 pages.


I'm so proud of our boy....

Forget Roy! SHULK'S OUR BOY! Not that catchy, but whatever.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I wish I had my own theories about Xenoblade to share. I just can't think of any! Though, there are many questions that I probably never get the answer to.


Forget Roy! SHULK'S OUR BOY! Not that catchy, but whatever.

Shulk, Shulk, he's our man! If he can't do it, nobody... will.

And I was referring to Shulk, not Roy, ya putz

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Well, since we're talking about theories of Xenoblade...

Spoiler

I have a few questions. Since Zanza and Meyneth were the only ones who, besides Alvis, became gods in the newborn Xenoblade universe does that mean that everyone else, er, died? If that is the case, everything else was erased from existence. I can't help but wonder what it must've been like for Zanza and Meyneth to wake up in those titan bodies all alone. Being as arrogant as he was, Zanza probably got used to his new-found powers pretty quickly. Meyneth on the other hand more than likely felt an immense amount of guilt, even loneliness. Poor Alvis was in the neutral party who did just as he was programmed(?) to but also evolved as time passed. Some people think Alvis was a scientist rather than the AI who helped rewrite the universe though for some reason. Either way, I believe he was able to feel emotions to an extent. Why else would he side with Shulk in the end and basically tell Zanza to go screw himself? That's just my opinion.

Regardless of his powers and plotting, I feel that Zanza choosing Shulk to be his host wasn't a coincidence by any means. Shulk probably reminded Zanza, unconsciously mind you, of what he once was. A human being. They look alike and are both bright, so it wouldn't surprise me.

P.S I don't know how the heck I got so off tangent. lol I probably sound like a nut. *crawls back in hole*

Anyhow, back to talking about Shulk being in Smash Bros. Every time I picture him in the game, I can't help but think of what his face expressions might be. XD

 

[Spazzy_D]

Well, since we're talking about theories of Xenoblade...

Spoiler

I have a few questions. Since Zanza and Meyneth were the only ones who, besides Alvis, became gods in the newborn Xenoblade universe does that mean that everyone else, er, died? If that is the case, everything else was erased from existence. I can't help but wonder what it must've been like for Zanza and Meyneth to wake up in those titan bodies all alone. Being as arrogant as he was, Zanza probably got used to his new-found powers pretty quickly. Meyneth on the other hand more than likely felt an immense amount of guilt, even loneliness. Poor Alvis was in the neutral party who did just as he was programmed(?) to but also evolved as time passed. Some people think Alvis was a scientist rather than the AI who helped rewrite the universe though for some reason. Either way, I believe he was able to feel emotions to an extent. Why else would he side with Shulk in the end and basically tell Zanza to go screw himself? That's just my opinion.

Regardless of his powers and plotting, I feel that Zanza choosing Shulk to be his host wasn't a coincidence by any means. Shulk probably reminded Zanza, unconsciously mind you, of what he once was. A human being. They look alike and are both bright, so it wouldn't surprise me.

P.S I don't know how the heck I got so off tangent. lol I probably sound like a nut. *crawls back in hole*

Anyhow, back to talking about Shulk being in Smash Bros. Every time I picture him in the game, I can't help but think of what his face expressions might be. XD

Hopefully something with a decent amount of polygons.

 

[SkittleE]

Well, since we're talking about theories of Xenoblade...

Spoiler

I have a few questions. Since Zanza and Meyneth were the only ones who, besides Alvis, became gods in the newborn Xenoblade universe does that mean that everyone else, er, died? If that is the case, everything else was erased from existence. I can't help but wonder what it must've been like for Zanza and Meyneth to wake up in those titan bodies all alone. Being as arrogant as he was, Zanza probably got used to his new-found powers pretty quickly. Meyneth on the other hand more than likely felt an immense amount of guilt, even loneliness. Poor Alvis was in the neutral party who did just as he was programmed(?) to but also evolved as time passed. Some people think Alvis was a scientist rather than the AI who helped rewrite the universe though for some reason. Either way, I believe he was able to feel emotions to an extent. Why else would he side with Shulk in the end and basically tell Zanza to go screw himself? That's just my opinion.

Regardless of his powers and plotting, I feel that Zanza choosing Shulk to be his host wasn't a coincidence by any means. Shulk probably reminded Zanza, unconsciously mind you, of what he once was. A human being. They look alike and are both bright, so it wouldn't surprise me.

P.S I don't know how the heck I got so off tangent. lol I probably sound like a nut. *crawls back in hole*

Hooo boy major spoilers for Xenoblade below:

Spoiler

I have a feeling that if Klaus and Meyneth were capable of creating a universe destroying machine, they were probably just as capable of creating a sentient universe destroying machine. Alvis is a people, albeit a programmed one, who thankfully never feels a particularly strong desire to release deadly neurotoxin.

And yeah, Zanza and Shulk DEFINITELY look alike (huehuehuehuehue: http://heyshulk.tumblr.com/post/65245482924). Before being thrown into the depths of despair after Zanza appeared and I thought that Shulk never really existed and that was just an act Zanza was putting on, I wondered why a spooky ghosty Shulk came out of Shulk's body with a costume that had a fabulous crotch-hole.

And if I may throw a theory of my own (kind of) into the mix (with still very massive Xenoblade spoilers):

Spoiler

If you hop on over to Xenoblade's TV Tropes page, it suggests a lot that Shulk can't actually taste any of the food Fiora makes him because HE'S A ZOMBIE. Which I find incredibly cool.

 

[Deleted member]

And if I may throw a theory of my own (kind of) into the mix (with still very massive Xenoblade spoilers):

Spoiler

If you hop on over to Xenoblade's TV Tropes page, it suggests a lot that Shulk can't actually taste any of the food Fiora makes him because HE'S A ZOMBIE. Which I find incredibly cool.

Spoiler

Well, when Fiora says that Shulk has "no sense of taste"... that could be taken literally. XD

One thing I'm still confused over is...

Spoiler

Why was Zanza inside Shulk and also in Arglas on Prison Island? I never really got how this happened. Although some of you explained how this could happen, I'm still lost.
What I do know is that Shulk must have been the perfect host for Zanza. From the physical traits Shulk has to Zanza, Zanza may have somehow created the image of Shulk looking like himself and that he saw Shulk as the perfect host. At the end of the game, it's pretty apparent that they share some similar qualities (Zanza was a scientist while Shulk loves to study and such). It makes me think that Zanza carried his personality traits to Shulk, but mostly his pure traits are within Shulk.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Spoiler

However, this doesn't explain to me why he couldn't strike Metal Face in the beginning, because before the sword was deflected, he definitely believed he could. He didn't know there was a Homs in there. Unless I'm not putting things in the right order here.

Okay, let's say you have this sharpie. It has two settings that allow it to write on either paper or, let's say, plastic. If you're trying to write on paper, and it's in the wrong setting, no amount of willpower will allow you to write on paper if you don't know how to switch the setting.

It also helps if you actually know what you're writing on.

One thing I'm still confused over is...

Spoiler

Why was Zanza inside Shulk and also in Arglas on Prison Island? I never really got how this happened. Although some of you explained how this could happen, I'm still lost.

Spoiler

I'm not sure if this is ever explained, but I think the most reasonable assumption is that he either can contain himself in multiple vessels if he chooses, or he can manipulate Arglas's body remotely through some method as a result of his previous possession.

It sure would be cool if Shulk was a playable character in Super Smash Bros!

See? Look how on topic this thread is!

 

[egaddmario]

Keep up the spoiler tags guys! I've been peaking in this thread periodically and i haven't been spoiled yet

 

[Gengar84]

I support this. Xenoblade is one of my favorite games I've played in many years. It would be awesome to see Shulk get into Smash 4 along with any music and stages that follow. I haven't really read this thread too much because I'm still finishing Xenoblade and don't want to spoil the ending.

Spoiler

I just beat Gaddot

Fortunately, I think that there's a pretty good chance that he'll get into this game.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I support this. Xenoblade is one of my favorite games I've played in many years. It would be awesome to see Shulk get into Smash 4 along with any music and stages that follow. I haven't really read this thread too much because I'm still finishing Xenoblade and don't want to spoil the ending.

Spoiler

I just beat Gaddot

Fortunately, I think that there's a pretty good chance that he'll get into this game.

I can't wait until all these first time Xenogear players finish the game. The game had more than one 11th hour plot twist, and I love seeing people's reactions.

Okay, let's say you have this sharpie. It has two settings that allow it to write on either paper or, let's say, plastic. If you're trying to write on paper, and it's in the wrong setting, no amount of willpower will allow you to write on paper if you don't know how to switch the setting.
It also helps if you actually know what you're writing on.

Spoiler

I'm not sure if this is ever explained, but I think the most reasonable assumption is that he either can contain himself in multiple vessels if he chooses, or he can manipulate Arglas's body remotely through some method as a result of his previous possession.

It sure would be cool if Shulk was a playable character in Super Smash Bros!
See? Look how on topic this thread is!

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure that a big part of Zanza (if not his consciousness) was inside of Arglas. Shulk calls him out on being trapped in Prison Island before the final fight and Zanza mentions he was "just resting" which would imply that he was actually there. On top of this, he actually DOES need Shulk to free him. I think the most likely answer is that his mind and a portion of his power (his "soul") resided in Arglas while the majority of his power was in the Monado, so it was actually the opposite of what you were saying - Zanza reanimated and empowered Shulk through the Monado even though he was still inside of Arglas' body.

Just finished my second play through yesterday by the way, and looked something up that I hadn't really thought about before. The symbol on the Monado says what the Monado is capable of hurting. When you start the game the symbol (is it Kanji?) says "machine" and when you upgrade to Monado II is says "Person," and

Spoiler

Before you kill Zanza the symbol changes and Zanza says "That symbol, it can't be" or something to that effect. It's what made me look it up. Apparently it's the symbol for god.

 

[SkittleE]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure that a big part of Zanza (if not his consciousness) was inside of Arglas. Shulk calls him out on being trapped in Prison Island before the final fight and Zanza mentions he was "just resting" which would imply that he was actually there. On top of this, he actually DOES need Shulk to free him. I think the most likely answer is that his mind and a portion of his power (his "soul") resided in Arglas while the majority of his power was in the Monado, so it was actually the opposite of what you were saying - Zanza reanimated and empowered Shulk through the Monado even though he was still inside of Arglas' body.

Spoiler

I was always just under the impression that Zanza had split himself into three. Some of him was in Arglas, some of him was in the Monado, and some of him was in Shulk. Nothing too complicated.

Yep, Shulk sure would be cool in SSB4. We could not be more on topic if we tried.

 

[Spazzy_D]

@ SkittleE Honestly, these last two pages are completely on topic. We're just trying to figure out if

Spoiler

A Zanza alt costume would be appropriate for Shulk, since they are the same character... technically

See, totally on topic.

 

[foolssigma]

I could see Sakurai going with different gear types as an alternate costume for Shulk.

Spoiler

I think Sakurai previously stated something about not using different characters as alts, so that excludes Zanza despite their similarities. I don't consider them the same.

I'm probably going to do another play through of Xenoblade starting next week. It's been a while since my initial run years back. Pretty excited.

 

[Banjodorf]

Six colors for Shulk's default look, and then six "colors" each based on different armor sets (Jungle, High Entia, Soldier, that weird red heavy armor, and two others I'm forgetting.)

Sounds amazing. Ala Wario.

 

[FlareHabanero]

When it comes to alternate costumes, naturally he should sport alternate costumes based on the three ones recycled with his varies outfits.

Then further expand it with a green equivalent and whatever else. Like say a gold color scheme and pink color scheme.

Also, in terms of alternate costumes, I would really appreciate the idea of using the Nopon attire.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Some headgear like the goggles would be cool, too.

 

[Hype Train]

Some headgear like the goggles would be cool, too.

I'd actually prefer it if Shulk was always wearing his goggles (and gloves). Or at least, for his default look, anyway. I have to say, I'm really digging the way he looks in Banjodorf's sig.

Spoiler

I'd also prefer it if he was using the Monado II instead of the regular Monado. If only because I think it looks cooler.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I do like putting glasses on Shulk for some reason.

Probably because it emphasizes his genius side more.

 

[SkittleE]

Some headgear like the goggles would be cool, too.

Hnnnnnnnng yes I LOVE Shulk with goggles. Even in my naked playthrough of Xenoblade I could not resist equipping him with goggles. I am weak.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Anyone here has completed the Xenoblade Chronicles Puzzle Swap of Mii Plaza? i'm curious.

Spoiler

 

[foolssigma]

@ CardiganBoy I remember when I completed the Xenoblade puzzle at Magfest. Pretty cool and all, but I don't get as much excitement or pleasure from Streetpass as most people

 

[Deleted member]

I still haven't completed that puzzle. The only one that I did was the Pikmin one, one of the very first StreetPass puzzles.
I was very pleasantly surprised that Xenoblade got its own Puzzle Swap to be honest. I just hope that this means that Nintendo will embrace this series in the future. I would love to put Xenoblade next to Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon, and Metroid.

 

[Snagrio]

Geez this should be renamed the Xenoblade spoiler thread.