Heir to the Monado. Shulk General Discussion/Social Thread

[yoonb]

I would like to drop by and say that I would also like my name to be added to the supporters list, if you don't mind. :D

 

[jaytalks]

I would like to drop by and say that I would also like my name to be added to the supporters list, if you don't mind. :D

welcome to the forums!

 

[Ember Reaper]

<- I Support Shulk

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The only factor I think Shulk has against him is he didn't exist before Brawl but considering Lucas, Ike and Lucario didn't exist before Melee and Xenoblade was released before Development of Smash 4 began I think he's got a chance.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

He is (in my opinion) one of the only major characters from a franchise in between Brawl and Smash Wii U/3DS. Along with the fact that there is a spiritual successor coming soon in "X", I think it would be fair to say he has a decent shot.

His game got a significant amount of attention and praise, which is something to consider when compared to a lot of the shovelware that came out on the Wii besides Mario, Zelda, or Donkey Kong. It was the first big game to come from Nintendo in awhile. Whether that will mean anything for him in the future is yet to be shown.

 

[foolssigma]

I still think Shulk has a good chance to make it in. At this point it will probably be a loooooong time before we hear anything though. The sad part is there has not been much conversation here.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not many people have played Xenoblade Chronicles, so naturally you cannot discuss something if you don't really know the subject in question.

 

[yoonb]

Not many people have played Xenoblade Chronicles, so naturally you cannot discuss something if you don't really know the subject in question.

This. I was only able to get my hands on a copy because a friend gave it to me. It's too bad they printed a limited amount of copies for the game. That definitely hurts Shulk's chances.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Don't forget, even less played the Mother games. Above all else a character's potential has to impress Sakurai and his team. And they can change their minds as Villager showed us.

 

[foolssigma]

Valid points. Spoilers are the worst. I don't remember if this was discussed, but I think Metal Face would make for a good boss without spoiling anything from the game.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Metal Face would be a great boss.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Although it took me months to get it and spent like eighty bucks on it, I finally got Xenoblade a few days ago. I'm already in love with it. Count me as a Shulk supporter. :D If he's part of one of the greatest video games ever made by nintendo, I think he has a shot as well.

 

[ShichibukaiJimbe]

Playing Xenoblade made me really want a rep from that game, it would be amazing

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The only factor I think Shulk has against him is he didn't exist before Brawl but considering Lucas, Ike and Lucario didn't exist before Melee and Xenoblade was released before Development of Smash 4 began I think he's got a chance.

Each Smash game tends to have a focus on the past gen (with a little current gen and retro), that means the Wii and DS this time. Xenoblade was on the Wii, Shulk was the main character. He at least has a shot.

 

[N3ON]

Not many people have played Xenoblade Chronicles, so naturally you cannot discuss something if you don't really know the subject in question.

Plus Shulk's popularity peak has passed.

Each Smash game tends to have a focus on the past gen (with a little current gen and retro), that means the Wii and DS this time. Xenoblade was on the Wii, Shulk was the main character. He at least has a shot.

They focus on what was between last Smash and this Smash in non-playable content and additional reps for existing series, not new ones. Being a new IP isn't going to do any series any favours.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Plus Shulk's popularity peak has passed.



They focus on what was between last Smash and this Smash in non-playable content and additional reps for existing series, not new ones. Being a new IP isn't going to do any series any favours.

Not saying it would be, saying it has a chance because of what past Smash Bros games appeared to be like (as you said, in the time frame)

 

[N3ON]

Not saying it would be, saying it has a chance because of what past Smash Bros games appeared to be like (as you said, in the time frame)

Right, and they appear to not favour new IPs. So yeah, he has a shot, but being new by itself has nothing to do with that. It'd be the popularity of him and his game, as well as its overall reception that gets him in, not when it came out. The only thing timing has done is put him in the incredibly lucky situation of having his popularity peak when the roster was being compiled.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Right, and they appear to not favour new IPs. So yeah, he has a shot, but being new by itself has nothing to do with that. It'd be the popularity of him and his game, as well as its overall reception that gets him in, not when it came out. The only thing timing has done is put him in the incredibly lucky situation of having his popularity peak when the roster was being compiled.

Popularity is certainly the number one part, but the time frame is there for certain characters and certain situations.

As for the not favoring new IPs part, it has been there but that also don't mean it will always be there. Same with everything else Sakurai has ever said. It used to be only Nintendo characters but now we get third party ones as well. I think there will be more IPs repped this time because not all of the current ones need reps thrown into them. Thus Smash Bros expands even more.

 

[N3ON]

Popularity is certainly the number one part, but the time frame is there for certain characters and certain situations.

When exactly has recency got a new series included?

As for the not favoring new IPs part, it has been there but that also don't mean it will always be there.

Well until it changes, we shouldn't assume it's changed.

Same with everything else Sakurai has ever said. It used to be only Nintendo characters but now we get third party ones as well.

That really doesn't justify including lesser new character because they're new when there are better choices to be had. (Not saying Shulk is guilty of this, just generally)

I think there will be more IPs repped this time because not all of the current ones need reps thrown into them. Thus Smash Bros expands even more.

Ok, but that doesn't mean new IPs would get any sort of priority if they don't also have other factors in their favour, or if the factors they have don't outweigh other unrepresented series. (Again, not saying Shulk doesn't, just refuting your logic)

Now, I'm not saying Xenoblade won't get in because it's new. I'm saying it being new will not give it treatment different than older (non-retro) IPs.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Well I would say not because their new, but because those other franchises are still part of Nintendo and a part not yet put in Smash.

Xenoblade, Sin & Punishment, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, and PunchOut are five that come to mind.

 

[SmashChu]

Plus Shulk's popularity peak has passed.

Not sure what you mean. You can say that about most characters

They focus on what was between last Smash and this Smash in non-playable content and additional reps for existing series, not new ones. Being a new IP isn't going to do any series any favours.

Wii Fit Trainer

 

[N3ON]

Not sure what you mean. You can say that about most characters

Well what I mean is fewer people are talking about him nowadays because he has lesser popularity than what he used to. You're right, it could also apply to other characters. Your point?

Wii Fit Trainer

Ok, when Xenoblade sells over 40 million units and becomes a household name, then I suspect might be in a place comparable to Wii Fit Trainer. I didn't say new IPs wouldn't get in, I said being new won't do them any favours, which it doesn't. Do you mean to say WFT was chosen because she was new? Because that's never been stated... and isn't the case.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Plus Shulk's popularity peak has passed.

As if any "popularity" now is going to influence jack when the game is in the middle of development and the roster has been finalized a long time ago, and there isn't a Sonic huge amount of demand either this time around to defy that.

 

[N3ON]

As if any "popularity" now is going to influence jack when the game is in the middle of development and the roster has been finalized a long time ago, and there isn't a Sonic huge amount of demand either this time around to defy that.

Look, I'm only explaining why the activity in the thread has decreased. Seems none of you looked at the context of what I said, just the isolated post. Hell, it was in response to you explaining why activity here had decreased.

 

[Inawordyes]

I'm here, lurking, watching, just don't really have anything to say other than "I want Shulk because he's awesome!", as I haven't played Xenoblade yet. Which was kinda the point made near the top of this page.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I suppose the reason why this thread doesn't receive much activity is because the game Xenoblade Chronicles has sold poorly due to lousy distribution and promotion, and the game itself has A LOT of spoilers due to the nature of it's plot. Naturally combine both and there is a reluctance to discuss. However, I don't really think that is such a heavy hindrance, considering we've received a lot of characters that had little to no influence from popularity or sales and was more based around character merits.

I will, however, say that in the scenario of Shulk being a playable character, there is the concern with the Monado. While being an energy sword capable of divine powers is great and all and can provide leeway in varies ways, the blade itself extends to ridiculous lengths. This can create some complications for balance in a sense since giving a character too much range can cause problems, but at the same time you can take advantage of it in some sort of way or find loopholes to compensate for the length of the blade.

 

[yoonb]

The Monado only extends that far in cutscenes, though. The only art that actually extends the Monado during gameplay is Monado Buster. And if you really think about it, most Monado arts are support arts. Shulk definitely has a lot of effects added onto his attacks that can differentiate him from a traditional swordsman. He's got break, daze, and even attacks based on his positioning. I don't think the length of the Monado would necessarily be a problem.

And even so, Monado Arts could easily be balanced in the same way they are in the game: by auto attacking and pressing the special button to activate the Monado, giving himself a whole new set of special moves. They could even just give him the Monado arts on the spot, or even only make Monado Buster the only Monado art usable as a Final Smash. These are just some ideas. I think Shulk has a lot of versatility. We'll just have to see what Sakurai does with him should he appear on the roster.

 

[SmashChu]

Well what I mean is fewer people are talking about him nowadays because he has lesser popularity than what he used to. You're right, it could also apply to other characters. Your point?

My point is that your point is stupid. His game came out a while ago. The same is true of other characters like Ghirahim and all the Kid Icarus ones. Look at Shortie's poll and you'll see he's high. Look at the Japanese observation and he's at the top. Current talks means nothing.

Ok, when Xenoblade sells over 40 million units and becomes a household name, then I suspect might be in a place comparable to Wii Fit Trainer. I didn't say new IPs wouldn't get in, I said being new won't do them any favours, which it doesn't. Do you mean to say WFT was chosen because she was new? Because that's never been stated... and isn't the case.

You're missing the point. Let's look back at what you said:

They focus on what was between last Smash and this Smash in non-playable content and additional reps for existing series, not new ones. Being a new IP isn't going to do any series any favours.

Wii Fit was announced at E3 2007 after Smash had been in development for a good while. The game didn't release until after Brawl did. Pikmin was in a similar situation. You stated that they tend not to go for new series. But Wii Fit and Pikmin were newer series. Pokemon was about 3 and a half years old when 64 came out.
Now what about the alternative. When was a new series passed up? We haven't been in a situation where a game released between Smash games like Xenoblade. So what exactly are you basing your augment on. You never say. You make a claim statement with no actual backing, and you do it about 3 or 4 times.

 

[N3ON]

My point is that your point is stupid. His game came out a while ago. The same is true of other characters like Ghirahim and all the Kid Icarus ones. Look at Shortie's poll and you'll see he's high. Look at the Japanese observation and he's at the top. Current talks means nothing.

My point, the point that Shulk's descent from being at his popularity peak is partially why this thread doesn't see as much activity as it used to is stupid? And to back up that my point is stupid... you have other characters who also are no longer at their peak, and thus don't see as much activity in their respective threads, as evidence. That's exactly what I'm saying. Or did you just look at when I said Shulk's not at his peak and totally ignore the context it was in, even though this will be the second time I'm clarifying that I was solely talking about activity in this thread.

When did I say current popularity mattered? I didn't even talk about his chances, I talked about him not being at his peak, and the effect of that on this thread.
So much selective reading going on...

You're missing the point. Let's look back at what you said:

They focus on what was between last Smash and this Smash in non-playable content and additional reps for existing series, not new ones. Being a new IP isn't going to do any series any favours.

Wii Fit was announced at E3 2007 after Smash had been in development for a good while. The game didn't release until after Brawl did. Pikmin was in a similar situation. You stated that they tend not to go for new series. But Wii Fit and Pikmin were newer series. Pokemon was about 3 and a half years old when 64 came out.

Yes. So... you have three examples. For four games. Like twenty total series have been added... and you have three examples. Is that focusing on new series? Or is that just adding a new series on occasion? I never said new series won't get in, I said the focus isn't on new series, which it's never been. Brawl gets Pikmin, and suddenly the fact that five older series were also added is unimportant because the "focus" was on one of those five? We get Wii Fit, yet also AC and Mega Man, and the focus is on Wii Fit? Perhaps you could make the claim the focus of series added are new ones.... when that actually happens, like when over half of the series added are new... but until then... even if new series get one or two characters per game.... that doesn't make them the "focus" of additions, does it?

They do tend to not go for new series. They have a few, sure, I never denied that. But it's not the tendency. I think you might be the one missing the point.

Now what about the alternative. When was a new series passed up? We haven't been in a situation where a game released between Smash games like Xenoblade. So what exactly are you basing your augment on. You never say. You make a claim statement with no actual backing, and you do it about 3 or 4 times.

An example of a popular game with a popular character that didn't get included? I'll do you one better, how about a popular character from two popular games that actually did well commercially? Why don't you take a look at Golden Sun.

Oh, but wait, that's second party, isn't it. Therefore, it doesn't count. Because clearly you've been on the mark when it comes to predicting how Sakurai treats non-first-parties.

Yes, Xenoblade is in a better place then most one-time series, of course. That's why I've never said Shulk had poor chances. He has fairly decent chances. But looking at the fact that you came up with three series that were relatively new when they were added to Smash out of every series with playable representation, it really isn't that difficult to see the focus is not on new series, especially not solely because they are new series, which is what I was arguing in that quote you again incorrectly contextualized.

 

[Zhadgon]

For the record, seeing that Nintendo is backing Monolith in to making the spiritual successor of Xenoblade for the WiiU, I think that helps too for the series to have Shulk as a playable character.
.n_n.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Shout out for the Kalas avatar Zhadgon has.

For the record, seeing that Nintendo is backing Monolith in to making the spiritual successor of Xenoblade for the WiiU, I think that helps too for the series to have Shulk as a playable character.
.n_n.

I don't think it will work in that sort of way, though at the same time if there is such a heavy emphasis on advertisement, it would make sense to promote a sequel with a correlation to both the character reveal and the advertisement of said game.

Also yes, I do believe it is a legitimate sequel due to the strong connections to Xenoblade Chronicles.

 

[Zhadgon]

Shout out for the Kalas avatar Zhadgon has.



I don't think it will work in that sort of way, though at the same time if there is such a heavy emphasis on advertisement, it would make sense to promote a sequel with a correlation to both the character reveal and the advertisement of said game.

Also yes, I do believe it is a legitimate sequel due to the strong connections to Xenoblade Chronicles.

Yeah I can´t wait to play X, I will get it at launch it looks pretty EPIC, I´m starting to drool again thinking about it. Oh and you surprise me knowing about Kalas, ten likes for you (I wish Nintendo and Monolithsoft could bring the spiritual successor of Baten Kaitos too, I will buy it first day too).
.n_n.

 

[SmashChu]

So much selective reading going on...

I'll get to the rest later, but dont get upset at people in the thread because you weren't clear.

Also, I like how I make a short post and someone responds with multiple paragraphs. More words will help you, surely.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh and you surprise me knowing about Kalas

I know way too much about a lot of unorthodox games. That's what happens when you're bored, you start browsing sites like HardcoreGaming101 to look for hidden gems.

 

[Zhadgon]

I know way too much about a lot of unorthodox games. That's what happens when you're bored, you start browsing sites like HardcoreGaming101 to look for hidden gems.

I don´t know that site, but for the past 2 years I have been going more in the Indie Scene and really it has surprise me with a lot of hidden gems, compared to many triple A titles in the current generation those games make them look like garbage (game design wise).
.n_n.

 

[foolssigma]

At this point the inclusion of Shulk seems just as likely or unlikely as a lot of people's desired characters. If X actually releases before smash, he could be revealed, or Sakurai could just keep up the promotional reveals and show off Shulk well before his game. Putting him as a hidden character wouldn't surprise me. Either way, it is still going to be a while before any new information is released about X. It seems as though we'll wait a while before a new character is revealed if trends continue, probably next year. All of you guys make valid points for both sides of the argument.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles but I really want to, I see potential in Shulk even without playing his game, he could be the representation of the whole Monolith Soft part of Nintendo.

As for the game, Nintendo should release it as a Nintendo Select. Plz >_<

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Regardless if Xenoblade gets a character or not, how would all of you want to see the game represented in Smash Bros 4.

I would say:

-Shulk is playable
-One stage (either Sword Valley or Eryth Sea), maybe both
-Ether Rifle is Item
-Metal Face is Boss
-Reyn is AT
-Around 10 Songs from the game
-Two trophies for Shulk, the rest of the cast gets one trophy (and a few items from it maybe)
-X gets something in there too

 

[SmashChu]

My point, the point that Shulk's descent from being at his popularity peak is partially why this thread doesn't see as much activity as it used to is stupid? And to back up that my point is stupid... you have other characters who also are no longer at their peak, and thus don't see as much activity in their respective threads, as evidence. That's exactly what I'm saying. Or did you just look at when I said Shulk's not at his peak and totally ignore the context it was in, even though this will be the second time I'm clarifying that I was solely talking about activity in this thread.

When did I say current popularity mattered? I didn't even talk about his chances, I talked about him not being at his peak, and the effect of that on this thread.
So much selective reading going on...

Did you?

Right, and they appear to not favour new IPs. So yeah, he has a shot, but being new by itself has nothing to do with that. It'd be the popularity of him and his game, as well as its overall reception that gets him in, not when it came out. The only thing timing has done is put him in the incredibly lucky situation of having his popularity peak when the roster was being compiled.

You put a lot of emphasis on this popularity peak thingy......

Yes. So... you have three examples. For four games. Like twenty total series have been added... and you have three examples. Is that focusing on new series? Or is that just adding a new series on occasion? I never said new series won't get in, I said the focus isn't on new series, which it's never been. Brawl gets Pikmin, and suddenly the fact that five older series were also added is unimportant because the "focus" was on one of those five? We get Wii Fit, yet also AC and Mega Man, and the focus is on Wii Fit? Perhaps you could make the claim the focus of series added are new ones.... when that actually happens, like when over half of the series added are new... but until then... even if new series get one or two characters per game.... that doesn't make them the "focus" of additions, does it?

They do tend to not go for new series. They have a few, sure, I never denied that. But it's not the tendency. I think you might be the one missing the point.

When did I ever say new series were the focus. Here is what you said again.

They focus on what was between last Smash and this Smash in non-playable content and additional reps for existing series, not new ones. Being a new IP isn't going to do any series any favours.

Your saying the care about what new happens for existing series but not the new series, which is why I point out Pikmin, Pokemon and Wii Fit. They were all new-ish games. You saying it's not the tendency, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's not an issue. They do use new series and it shows. What your asserting is not what we are talking about.

But what new series are they ignoring. Let's see.......

An example of a popular game with a popular character that didn't get included? I'll do you one better, how about a popular character from two popular games that actually did well commercially? Why don't you take a look at Golden Sun.

Oh, but wait, that's second party, isn't it. Therefore, it doesn't count. Because clearly you've been on the mark when it comes to predicting how Sakurai treats non-first-parties.

First, during this discussion, did anyone mention "non first party series." That is not relevant here.

Let's look at Golden Sun. Here are the release dates of Golden Sun and Pikmin
Pikmin: October 26, 2001
Golden Sun: August 1, 2001

Both games were released pretty close to each other. They weren't more than 90 days apart. But Pikmin got into Brawl while Golden Sun didn't. So logically, Golden Sun was not excluded because of when it was released. It was excluded for another reason.

Yes, Xenoblade is in a better place then most one-time series, of course. That's why I've never said Shulk had poor chances. He has fairly decent chances. But looking at the fact that you came up with three series that were relatively new when they were added to Smash out of every series with playable representation, it really isn't that difficult to see the focus is not on new series, especially not solely because they are new series, which is what I was arguing in that quote you again incorrectly contextualized.

[/QUOTE]


Right, and they appear to not favour new IPs.

What you have been saying is that they don't go after new series. But they have clearly added new series in Smash before. The poster you responded too noted that the focus on the new content is what is between the two games and that is true (he wasn't even emphasising that fact as much as you have). Pikmin is an example of this. So is Wii Fit. So to say they are not doing this with new series has no backing because we've seen it in action. One thing to note is that there were fewer series between Melee to Brawl than Brawl to SSB4. So the frame of reference is very different. We didn't have Xenoblade (which has been demanded by fans) or Rhythm Heaven (DS game sold almost 4 million I believe). So it's very likely they will add these series, further substantiating that they like to add new content. We'll see, but the notion you're bring up isn't substantiated.

 

[Zzuxon]

Regardless if Xenoblade gets a character or not, how would all of you want to see the game represented in Smash Bros 4.

I would say:

-Shulk is playable
-One stage (either Sword Valley or Eryth Sea), maybe both
-Ether Rifle is Item
-Metal Face is Boss
-Reyn is AT
-Around 10 Songs from the game
-Two trophies for Shulk, the rest of the cast gets one trophy (and a few items from it maybe)
-X gets something in there too

NO
Obviously the Heropon himself should be Xenoblade's AT.