HBK vs Eggm friendlies *Updated 2/7/09*

[Heart Break Kid]

1-31-09

HBK v Cactuar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_g-XbQAak0&feature=channel_page

I was going to wait to post this because I wanted to do a huge update. The uploader Pakman should have my second set vs Cactus and my sets vs Scar and Jman, at least I think. Im pretty sure hes holding off because the commentary is god awful. Also between the 2 sets with cactuar and the one with scar there should be alot of Marth vs Falcon and I hear alot of you hate the matchup. I kinda do too. I would post team matches too but no one watches those lol

Also Cactuar has legit controller johns 1st match. Thats why he couldnt ledge hop knee me when I was recovering. Not that Id want him too...


These are from like a little over a month ago, Dec I think. Lots of vids lol All Marth vs Falco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHEuCK1Aktw&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cukLAbJzG4U&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFjbBtFaVXE&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pA0D-VzBDw&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6y__rmEZKI&feature=channel_page

Yea so tell me what you think, advice is appreciated. I think I played better in the later matches(like the last few) and there are also some Marth v Fox matches there on his youtube but I figured Id just stick to our mains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHneaydm6uY&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8c9AZ3jkYw&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_TiUah9blw&feature=channel_page

 

[otg]

Wow... lots of SDs lol.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

You guys stoned? I love watching Eggm's falco, but I think I've seen him play much better.

 

[Sybawave]

Looks pretty normal to me XD burn!

 

[Heart Break Kid]

You guys stoned? I love watching Eggm's falco, but I think I've seen him play much better.

Lol Perhaps. I dnt remeber what days these are from, I jus know they were from a little after 09 started.

As for the SD's OTG I dunno what to tell you. Cold hand johns lol we do live in Jersey. Come play us sometime. Your crew nvr goes anywhere.

 

[otg]

Lol Perhaps. I dnt remeber what days these are from, I jus know they were from a little after 09 started.

As for the SD's OTG I dunno what to tell you. Cold hand johns lol we do live in Jersey. Come play us sometime. Your crew nvr goes anywhere.

Dude, come to Monthly this weekend I'll try to come. Biggest problem is college for me... it takes up a lot of time.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Lol trust me I feel you. School is def more important than smash. I should be at Milos thingy. And Eggm must have infiniti matches bcuz they keep uploading. I'll update this thread with more Marth v Falco

 

[Niko45]

Vids are sick. The dtilt to fair gimps are vicious. I liked the use of the down air in general. I was wondering why when he shield pressures you sh back fair after the shine? Is that to protect against the double shine or maybe just bc ur on a platform and can't get full distance on a wavedash?

 

[KosukeKGA]

Maybe he's just trying to get away in hopes of hitting him in the process.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Yea I honestly dnt know. I like to fair and bair OOS, but there are times where I will try and wavedash OOS into fsmash. Rollings another option. I mean yea I do try to get away, no sense in letting him eat away at my sheild so those are what I generally try to do.

 

[Niko45]

I mostly was wondering if that was a way to escape/counter double shines because if he's not going to double shine grab right after the shine seems way better.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Shield DI away and grab.

 

[Miggz]

Overall I enjoyed your matches. You're Marth was very very smooth. The only thing I can possible suggest is to switch up the old up throw Fox once then down throw. I think that gets old quick, so yeah that's the only thing I can think of. Other then that yeah keep up the good work. XD

 

[Sybawave]

Don't shield grab Falco when he dairs lol wait for the shine if you know they aren't going to JC shine

Don't shield grab Falco's Dash Attack

Don't shield grab something else...great...I'm going to die for this one XD

 

[KosukeKGA]

What...Those are all shield-grabbable aren't they? I know there's a timing for the Dair. And as for the Dash Attack...Yeah. <.<

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...why can't you shieldgrab the dash attack?

 

[Ryan-K]

lol

because they go through you or something, some wierd property with space animals makes it so your grab overshoots if you try to shieldgrab dash attack

 

[KosukeKGA]

I'll keep that in mind...Facing the other way is one solution.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I'll keep that in mind...Facing the other way is one solution.

That doesn't work either. They don't go far enough for you to grab them in the other direction (and why would they use a dash attack in that scenerio anyway.)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I dunno, if they try to overshoot with the dash attack, I would just lightshield and so I'd get pushed back more and end up right in front of them.

 

[Cosmo!]

i hate how you cant grab out of Z shield, which is the only lightshield i use right now, I suppose I could JC grab

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Have you tried pressing A while in Z shield?

 

[Ryan-K]

if spacies are at a high enough percent where you cant get punished i just up b out of sshield

 

[ArcNatural]

lol

because they go through you or something, some wierd property with space animals makes it so your grab overshoots if you try to shieldgrab dash attack

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been tested. I think players with good reflexes can grab the dash attack before they move past you. I don't know if it's the fault of the Fox/Falco player, but the only time I don't try to grab the dash attack is when they do it really late. Which is obvious that they will be past you before you can grab.

 

[Eggm]

I've noticed the same thing as arc natural. If people react fast I get grabbed reguardless.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Just curious, when being sheild pressured what are most peoples choice as to how to get away from it. What do you do OOS? Its mostly against Eggm cuz hes so **** technical but like 50% of the time I get shined out of my roll or wavedash. Perhaps I'm timing it wrong? And The Light Sheild is really useful vs Falco but I just never remember to do it, lol nvr crosses my mind when I play

Also someone teach me Fox vs Falco, I'm bad at it and dnt feel like making a thread in the Fox boards(So elven aka the f*cking melee encyclopedia, tell me what to do lol

 

[strangely mundane]

umm... buffer your rolls if you aren't already.

 

[Cactuar]

Buffering rolls is ******** vs good Falco players.

I usually just wavedash OOS vs Eggm.

Also, if you haven't already, learn my anti-laser spacing strat.

 

[KosukeKGA]

HBK, why is the Light Shield good to use against Falco?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Hey Cactuar, wanna explain your anti-laser spacing strat? I saw a little of it in Mogwai's thread, but I'm wondering what exactly you do at half SHL spacing, and how you get there.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Yea explain Cactus, or lemme come over and you just teach me everything about Marth.

As for the light sheild it provides for an easier escape when Falco is pillaring your sheild. You receive more knockback when attacked in a light sheild so youll slide farther back depending on how light the sheild is. I cnt test it but Im almost like 99% sure you can still attack out of a light sheild and because Marth has wonderful range it shouldnt be too hard to hit Falco after he dairs your sheild, of course if you dnt have the extremely huge light sheild up. You might be able wavedash into grab since your pushed far enough, but I think fair might be safer. Uhh I think thats it.

Like I said I can just nvr remember to do this for some reason, I think its a pretty good strategy defensive wise but Im just like *** it lol Ill swing my sword and maybe Ill get lucky with a grab somewhere

 

[Miggz]

Just curious, when being sheild pressured what are most peoples choice as to how to get away from it. What do you do OOS? Its mostly against Eggm cuz hes so **** technical but like 50% of the time I get shined out of my roll or wavedash. Perhaps I'm timing it wrong? And The Light Sheild is really useful vs Falco but I just never remember to do it, lol nvr crosses my mind when I play

Also someone teach me Fox vs Falco, I'm bad at it and dnt feel like making a thread in the Fox boards(So elven aka the f*cking melee encyclopedia, tell me what to do lol

Ok for your first question, it could be your timing. I think you want to roll after you hear the sound of the shine. I seem to get away from the shine pillaring sometimes, not always , when relying on that timing.

As for the Fox Falco match up, sure I can give you tips. Ok first do NOT attempt to laser spam with Fox against Falco. You are simply going to lose. You'd be surprise how many Fox players try that one. As for your actual approach you need to rely on full jump nairs/dairs. The point is to avoid the lasers and close the distance between the two of you. Once you are in Falco's face he won't be able to laser much, meaning you can apply your own pressure with your SHFFL aerials/shines.

Your grab game will play a massive roll in this match up, no surprise. lol When you grab at low percents you can chain grab or simply to up throw to up tilts to further juggling with dash attack or SHFFL bair. All depends on their DI. Once you get Falco off the level you should be able to keep him off. However, in my opinion, Falco gays Fox more when it comes to edge guarding. Avoid using your Fire Fox in front (especially the front!!) or a little above the level. The higher up the better. All Falco has to do is shoot you once and instantly take away your side B as a choice of recovering.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. Anything else in particular about the match up? XD

 

[Eggm]

The issue with light shileding is that it adds alot more shield stun so your timing for whatever you want to do OOS gets messed up. Just buffer roll to get out you shouldn't get shined. If your using regular roll you are probably tilting your shield before rolling and getting shield stabbed by shine. No multishines are fast enough to shine you out of buffered rolls I don't think.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

No multishines are fast enough to shine you out of buffered rolls I don't think.

Exactly lol. You'll never know what its like to play Eggm son. You should try buffering out of your own sheild pressure, but that will nvr happen. But yea Ive nvr really practiced the light sheilding thing but I just assumed it was safer for defensive purposes. I do buffer rolls though and sometimes I still think Im getting shined, maybe Ill see nxt time we play

Lol Eggm vs Eggm would be really entertaining

 

[Cactuar]

Ok for your first question, it could be your timing. I think you want to roll after you hear the sound of the shine. I seem to get away from the shine pillaring sometimes, not always , when relying on that timing.

As for the Fox Falco match up, sure I can give you tips. Ok first do NOT attempt to laser spam with Fox against Falco. You are simply going to lose. You'd be surprise how many Fox players try that one. As for your actual approach you need to rely on full jump nairs/dairs. The point is to avoid the lasers and close the distance between the two of you. Once you are in Falco's face he won't be able to laser much, meaning you can apply your own pressure with your SHFFL aerials/shines.

Your grab game will play a massive roll in this match up, no surprise. lol When you grab at low percents you can chain grab or simply to up throw to up tilts to further juggling with dash attack or SHFFL bair. All depends on their DI. Once you get Falco off the level you should be able to keep him off. However, in my opinion, Falco gays Fox more when it comes to edge guarding. Avoid using your Fire Fox in front (especially the front!!) or a little above the level. The higher up the better. All Falco has to do is shoot you once and instantly take away your side B as a choice of recovering.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. Anything else in particular about the match up? XD

Lmao. I have never seen a Fox try to laser spam a Falco. You also don't really need to rely on full jump nair/dair. It's useful, but there are a lot of other things you should be doing in addition to that.

Your advice on Fire Foxing is also flawed. There are areas where Fire Foxing above ground level and out from the edge is incredibly useful and cannot be easily sniped by lasers. It gives you a wider range of recovery options and doesn't make the move last so long that it can just be reacted to. The higher up you start the upb, the longer the Fire Fox movement animation takes until you reach the stage, and the longer they have to set up to punish you.

 

[Miggz]

Lmao. I have never seen a Fox try to laser spam a Falco. You also don't really need to rely on full jump nair/dair. It's useful, but there are a lot of other things you should be doing in addition to that.

Your advice on Fire Foxing is also flawed. There are areas where Fire Foxing above ground level and out from the edge is incredibly useful and cannot be easily sniped by lasers. It gives you a wider range of recovery options and doesn't make the move last so long that it can just be reacted to. The higher up you start the upb, the longer the Fire Fox movement animation takes until you reach the stage, and the longer they have to set up to punish you.

Hm I see. Thanks for the correction, friend. You gave myself and HBK some hot info. Talk about two brids, one stone.

 

[JBM falcon08]

light shielding is good but if the falco sees that you are consistently doin it they will eventually learn to jc grab out of shine lol.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Lol well i never light sheild anyway. Im just gonna go Sheik vs Eggm now bcuz that seems to be his worst matchup atm. Camp more Eggm, I think we need another secret NJ training session. I'll probably update this thread(and only put up interseting ****), but Im starting to like playing Fox more. Poor Marth.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Srry for the double but I updated the first post with a new set vs Cactuar from last week. Hopefully i'll have more vids from that tourny within the nxt few days.

Advice is always appreciated, hopefully someone can tell me what to do vs Jman if that set goes up

 

[Wschl]

i love the set dude =)
rly nice marth