Ground Game

[Dr. Hyde]

I know that Ganon is not a ground type, not in the sense that he is immune to electricity or can't hit fliers, but all his aerials are so good that they are usually better than his ground moves. I just have those times where I wonder what tricks can I use when I'm on the ground when I'm not aerial face bashing?

I know the Grabs and chain throws, Neutral A, {x| x not an element of Up}Tilts, and all his smashes are great. I know how to pivot well with the exception of the Forward tilt. I'm just wondering what tricks are left because if all are discovered then I guess I'll just wait til Brawl comes out or someone new to fight b/c... It get's kinda boring when you are all tricked out.

 

[Pyrostormer]

The Ledgehop backwards Waveland thingy.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I wave land about as much I feel possible and when I don't do that I wave dash and then of course theres roll and then whatever. I'm just lost on what to do on the ground. I've pretty much been considering a sheild poke set up with F+B and Neutral A b/c of the knock back and the insanely fast Neutral to just poke the shiled until I can pop someone up.

 

[Magus420]

Crouch cancelled jab cancels. Works good on interrupting Fox's and CF's n-air approaches and the like for a good while into your stock, and you can follow it up with a grab/tilt/f-air or something since it gives you a good opportunity to attack without them being able to run away and puts them on the defensive.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Crouch cancelled jab cancels. Works good on interrupting Fox's and CF's n-air approaches and the like for a good while into your stock, and you can follow it up with a grab/tilt/f-air or something since it gives you a good opportunity to attack without them being able to run away and puts them on the defensive.

I never actually thought of doing this!! I always did the D tilt b/c it takes alot less effort but yeah I'll give this a try. It does sound an aweful lot like pivoting with Ftilt when it comes to difficulties.

 

[Magus420]

If your controller allows you can just hold diagonally down and away right in the notch of the analog and just keep pressing A. It lets you crouch and jab without having to move the analog at all since there's a small spot on that diagonal that counts as a neutral direction and makes you jab. Since it's a small area though not all controllers are calibrated so that spot is located in the diagonal notch making it quite a bit more difficult to find at will. If your controller turn around f-tilts or d-tilts you have to move it a tiny bit to get the spot.

If you're at a decent amount of damage you'll want to hold down&towards when not actually jabbing and just crouching in case like CF throws out a knee or something and don't shield in time so you don't DI it badly. Just roll to the diagonal afterwards and then do the jab in that case.

 

[3GOD]

One of my favorite ground moves is Down-B (Wizard's Foot). It's by far Ganon's fastest ranged attack, and has considerable knock back even at low percentages.

As Magus mentioned, CC into jab is awesome also, but I need to work on following up better...do you guys think Forward-B might be able to connect after a jab at low percents (I just thought about this as I was typing)?

F-Tilt is too good - especially angled F-Tilt. Maybe I should work on pivoting f-tilts, but it seems like too much effort...is it worth it, and how should I do it? I can pivot all smashes, jab, and aerials pretty well, but struggle a little with the tilts (F-tilt mostly).

PS - Wavelanding with Ganon is a must. Anyone who says otherwise is foolish.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

@ Magus- sweet I'll try that.

@ 3GOD- Okay the reason Ftilt pivot is great is it can come out when people don't expect it. Even after dash dancing around you can pull it out pretty fast and it pushes people back if they shield preventing the grab. I think it's really useful and something Tipman made a point to notice.

I use the Jab -> F+B pretty often but only when people don't expect it. I usually do the reverse, F+B -> Jab. Just because the F+B gets blocked more often than traded and you recover just slightly slower than the opponent that blocked it, in which time they try to attack or grab and get jabbed.

I guess I might try it. Just poke them and F+B which would be pretty sweet if it worked. I'll post on this later tomorrow if I get a chance to test it unless Magus has already done so and beaten me to the punch, pun definately intended

 

[3GOD]

Yeah I know that pivoted f-tilts are really good, but they can kind of be replaced with wavelanded f-tilts often (since Ganon is in the air so much). One thing I recently saw someone using was Foward-B into a shielding opponent (only use if you pretty much know it will at least connect with their shield) and then d-smash...seemed to work for that guy at least.

Another thing on the ground that is often forgotten about (for me at least) is dash-attack. Sure it's laggy and can be CC'd, but many people will not CC against Ganon. And if they do, punish them for it with aerials . In my opinion, it's a decent tactic against fast people who like to dash dance around (Fox).

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I do the D-smash every now and then but Its just if they keep the shield up you have lost the advantage. But it does out weigh the risk IMHO.

BTW I KNOW the dash attack is, bad technically in most aspects, but it's like Samus Dash attack except not as good... But!! I use it and I agree it is only a move I wouldn't use on Low percentage people, especially Jiggs.

But I wouldn't use it against a DD'ing Fox, that is asking to get shined or Up Smashed. I a Fox was Dash dancing for some reason I would throw out an F-air once and if it didn't hit I would fake one and WL into a Grab or Jab.

 

[UnChienAndalousa]

I use the dash attack somewhat frequently. On most characters, if you get a jab you can dash attack through them and they'll go behind you. It's fast in close quarters, and a bit surprising. It gives a bit of damage too, which is never bad. It's not to be spammed though. Very situational...

 

[HZ514]

A, dash+a (however many times until they can recover before you can hit them again), run to them, short-hop an uair and then follow up with some aerial combo. Works wonders if they let you get into it. Try to end it with a dair/down-B spike for extra style points. =D

Also, the A, down-A, repeat works pretty well if you do it right, and can be followed up with dash-A, down-B, or side-B.

I love playing mindgames with wizard's foot. When you hit someone with it, they overcompensate the next time they see you crouch, and you can then punish them for it.

 

[RedYoshi92]

Ganon can destroy most projectiles when he is on the ground.

 

[chaddd]

I have something new I've been working on. It's actually a few new techs that as far as I can see haven't been discovered, or at least utilized the way I'm talking about. Anyway, I'll release the demons at Smashtaclysm, I have to keep all my secrets from Linguini until we $50 money match.

 

[DippnDots]

Basically, when Chaddd loses he's going to use "I was trying new techs" johns

jk bro, can't wait to see that ****.

 

[UnChienAndalousa]

A, dash+a (however many times until they can recover before you can hit them again), run to them, short-hop an uair and then follow up with some aerial combo. Works wonders if they let you get into it. Try to end it with a dair/down-B spike for extra style points. =D

Also, the A, down-A, repeat works pretty well if you do it right, and can be followed up with dash-A, down-B, or side-B.

I love playing mindgames with wizard's foot. When you hit someone with it, they overcompensate the next time they see you crouch, and you can then punish them for it.

I think I saw your video on youtube...

Not sure how well those things work. Oh wellz.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I've done the A-> Down+A-> A but I prefer if I get it once just to say "they are gonna change it now" and just F+B or D+B. That is an okay combo but its best used on someone at the edge since they won't DI toward it and then they will be stuck in it.

 

[linkmastersword]

I have found that utilizing a solid ground game is the only, and I mean ONLY way to handle sheik

Some "tricks" or mind games that I usually do are

1) at a little distance, maybe to 2-3 roll lengths away , throw a bogus usmash facing your opponent or dsmash with your backturned then just F-tilt because your opponent will try to rush in and grab, if they do an aerial then upward ftilt

2) run up the opponent and do a retreating fair to filt or dtilt.

3) you can grab many people when they try to dash attack

4) just wave shield alot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bfKRLS8UzY (my first life I had a pretty good ground game. I spam forward b though. I always think I have the opportunity and it always fails :/...)

 

[Dr. Hyde]

linkmastersword- not bad dude. I see a couple of areas, to be honest, that could have used you wavedashing and wavelanding from the edge. I see you using the ground game but its just to get Shiek to be grabbed or get her in the air where you can attack easily.

 

[Shell]

Try a stickywalk and follow it up with a dash attack (or perhaps a Forward-B).

 

[linkmastersword]

what a sticky walk?

 

[Magus420]

It's a new name given to an old technique. I've been calling it a stupid dash myself for years since I stumbled on it one day. That was before moonwalking existed though which makes it a lot more noticeable. You basically dash once release and then dash again and hold it during your extended dash braking animation (after the point where had you held the direction on the dash you would've triggered a run).

It makes you run really slow/stop/slide backwards while frozen and it basically just looks weird, and if you do a dash attack you spring forward at normal dash attack run speed instantly out of a near stopped run. Moonwalking before doing the second dash (hitting forward b4 moving backward to do the moonwalk is the 1st dash in this case) does the same thing basically except also gives you extra backwards movement slowing it down even more than just double dashing.

I do it in this vid after some of the double moonwalks: http://stage6.divx.com/user/Magus420/video/1649917/Ganon-Moonwalk-Stuff

If you dash the opposite way at the right time when doing it you get a small boost on your run when you turn around, but it's not too noticeable with Ganon.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

quick question
Q:
What frame on the Forward B can you avoid a projectile?

 

[Magus420]

After you start moving forward and fully into the sliding stance so I imagine somewhere in the 18ish area depending on how low the projectile is. It works because even though it often looks like your arm should get hit it's mostly out of range in the 3rd dimension so it passes in front or behind it and the rest of his body is really low and goes underneath.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

After you start moving forward and fully into the sliding stance so I imagine somewhere in the 18ish area depending on how low the projectile is. It works because even though it often looks like your arm should get hit it's mostly out of range in the 3rd dimension so it passes in front or behind it and the rest of his body is really low and goes underneath.

Thanks that completely makes things easier for me

 

[h1roshi]

wavelanding back into an ftilt or dtit works pretty well and a lot of times resuts in your opponent running into your tilt...peace

-hiroshi