Greninja Speculation Thread

[Banjodorf]

Greninja is the only one that has seemed OP to me.
My first thought when I saw him was Fox + better range.

I don't get the impression that Little Mac will be anywhere near top tier given how weak he is in the air and his poor recovery.
Hopefully later on we hear some big weakness like that for Greninja too. Because as it stands he does appear noticeably better for top players.

I think we'll have to see about Mac as well. He's certainly incredibly powerful on stage. Will be interesting to see how all these characters fair.

I'm actually most interested to see how Solozard handles himself. I feel like Greninja is going to have a pretty easy time maneuvering around Zard, and can potentially be a major threat.

Greninja's greatest weakness is probably his weight combined with his falling speed. This of course puts him basically on par with Melee spacies with those kind of attributes, like you said, but still.

 

[dimensionsword64]

Probably option (d).

 

[KingChaos]

Shiek+Squirtle=Greninja All day

 

[ToothiestAura]

Greninja is the only one that has seemed OP to me.
My first thought when I saw him was Melee Fox/Falco + better range.

I don't get the impression that Little Mac will be anywhere near top tier given how weak he is in the air and his poor recovery.
Hopefully later on we hear some big weakness like that for Greninja too. Because as it stands he does appear noticeably better for top players.

Greninja's is the only one who doesn't seem Op to me. Except Wii Fit. Ah, well. Too early to tell anyway.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Canonically, Greninja has no real importance. But in the main games he is the most used Pokemon and it turns out he is high on the OU list in the Smogon Pokemon metagame, if anyone cares. Furthurmore, Ash does have a Froakie in the anime. No clue if it evolved yet, I only watched til' episode 3 since it was sooooo boring.

As for Tingle, please no. That's all I'll say.

And for Waddle Dee, it seems possible and since it's Sakurai's game we might see him and 4 million Kid Icarus reps.

Greninja was such an easy transition that even I can come up with 50 moves for it.

 

[Greninja]

Yes, he seems incredibly fast and agile. Can't wait to play him

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Seems like a mix of Shiek/Lucario/Meta Knight, it'll be interesting seeing one on one matches between Greninja and either Shiek or Lucario

 

[FlareHabanero]

Strider from the Marvel vs. Capcom series and Chipp from the Guilty Gear series.

Both characters are based around ninjas, and revolve around extreme speed, quick projectiles, and teleportation in their gameplay style. However, the way Greninja handles his water blades is more reminiscent of Chipp. But both characters suffer from having low health and below normal power, though the latter is normally compensated by high combo capabilities.

Greninja's Final Smash is based on Strider's Ragnarok attack in particular.

However going solely by Super Smash Bros., his high falling speed is similar to Captain Falcon and the spacies, while his high jump reminds me of Sheik.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Hard to say right now, but Greninja seems to have some similarities to Sheik; they're both nimble on foot, and utilize certain ninja-like techniques.

 

[Sovereign]

He easily resembles Sheik. There's simply no doubt about it. His movement and poses seem to be plucked right from Sheik in some aspect or another.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Melee Fox + Melee Sheik

/thread

 

[Sonicguy726]

A mix of sheik (ninja), marth (sword) and lucario (Projectile, counter etc)

 

[Sonicguy726]

I think every character so far has been called OP

 

[Smaugfan]

I don't think Greninja will be the MK of Pokemon just yet. I see him more as Captain Falcon mixed a bit with Squirtle. I think that Luigi players may be the most dangerous to Greninja just remembering what Luigi does in SSBB.

 

[Smaugfan]

seems like Greninja is Captain Falcon mixed a bit with Squirtle and including the teleports of Sheik.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Yes, he seems incredibly fast and agile. Can't wait to play him

I, for one, can't believe nobody else used the Greninja username until yesterday.

Now, it is WAY TOO EARLY to call anyone OP.
To me Lil' Mac looks just too good because he has many Invincibility/SuperArmor attacks, the OHKO doesn't look bad atm (considering Brawl had Luigi's), but his potential (and every other character's) is yet to be seen. And we'll have to be patient until then.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I, for one, can't believe nobody else used the Greninja username until yesterday.

Now, it is WAY TOO EARLY to call anyone OP.
To me Lil' Mac looks just too good because he has many Invincibility/SuperArmor attacks, the OHKO doesn't look bad atm (considering Brawl had Luigi's), but his potential (and every other character's) is yet to be seen. And we'll have to be patient until then.

I think right now greninja is looking to be the best newcomer along with wii fit trainer since the other 4 have very obvious weaknesses

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's the love child of Strider Hiryu and Young Justice's Aqualad, of course!

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Sheik's ninja-style projectile and up-smash, ZSS's P:M Dair, Marth's reach, coupled with Pikachu and Squirtle's agility? Also, MetaKnight's teleportation abilities.
And as @ FlareHabanero said, his Ragnarok-like Final Smash (and his sliding dash attack) are very reminiscent of Strider Hiryu (my favorite video game ninja.)

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I feel it's significant that Mewtwo wasn't shown in the Master Ball segment.
My two cents.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I feel it's significant that Mewtwo wasn't shown in the Master Ball segment.
My two cents.

I think making him a pokeball if he wasn't playable would be a massive middle finger to the mewtwo fans

 

[Sonicguy726]

Greninja's recovery definitely seems like a water QA. I will definitely be maining both him and Pikachu in this game. We know he has a rapid jab and his single jab actually looked pretty good too. On the official site, it shows him using an attack that could very easily be his down tilt.

Probably because Aqua Jet actually is water quick attack in the games

 

[FlareHabanero]

I hope Substitute doesn't turn out to be a generic counter.

Have it spice things up a bit, like allowing you to go invincible for a few seconds and having the doll magically absorb attacks that touch Greninja, at the expense of raising your damage meter by 10 or 20%

-----

Well, judging from footage, the Substitute won't disappear after the counter, meaning it might serve some sort of other purpose.

There is also the possibility that you could delay the counter.

 

[godogod]

Note: I'm assuming that Jigglypuff and Mewtwo make it in.These stats are reflective of Brawl pokemon. except Mewtw in which his stats are taken from Melee.

I'd say its universally agreed on tha it has very fast movement speed,attack speed, and fall speed. He also has good recovery via specials, and his aerial game and overall juggling abilities look above average too. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that his weight, power, and grabs(or at least the first two) will be average at best.



So if you guys had to guess how Lucario and the other pokemon stand in attributes in relation with each other, where would you place them in these categories?

movement speed:
attack speed:
air speed:
fall speed:
power:
recovery:
weight:
Grab range:
overall aerial game:
overall ground game:
juggle:
roll:

anything else I missed?

One thing I noticed is that all pokemon in the smash bros series have is, above average recovery. I'm sure many of you know this as well of course.
---------------------------------------------------------

Going off super smash wikia.

Movement speed: Charizard=Pikachu>Greninja?> Lucario>Mewtwo>Jigglypuff
attack speed: Greninja>Pikachu>Lucario>Jigglypuff>Mewtwo>Charizard
fall speed: Jigglypuff>Mewtwo>Lucario>Charizard>Pikachu>Greninja

power: Charizard>Mewtwo>Lucario>Pikachu>Greninja>Jigglypuff
recovery: Jigglypuff>Mewtwo>Pikachu>Charizard>Greninja>Lucario
weight: Charizard>Mewtwo>Lucario>Greninja>Pikachu>Jigglypuff

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

I would love it if it made little ribbits as it hops around.

 

[Born in 1839...]

He will probably have the same sound effects and voice as Falco.

 

[Pazzo.]

Stick out your tongue. Now grunt. That's what Greninja will sound like.

 

[Smaugfan]

He is going to suffer against Pikachu..my prediction

Probably not. The teleports will make him move away from the lighting jolts. If you can connect that recovery of Greninja with the teleports that would make for a crazy game.

Then there is the ability to get away from the perceived moments of Pika Thunder to evade, then dash in for Greninja's own set up attacks. I think Mega Man characters will have a better time against Greninja due to leaf shield and some other attacks.

People apparently have a hard time realizing these videos are meant to show off the strengths of each newcomer, and in Mac's case, a glaring weakness to counteract his massive ground potential.

Greninja definitely has some great TOOLS though, so we'll have to see how he actually matches up.

not to mention that some of these are silly attacks too. Like when Fox did his burn move and directed it into mid-air to fall like a lag and right into the waiting sword attack of Greninja from below. Not to forget that some of the attacks may have been done on character opponents who already had a high damage percentage already.

Mac looks the most overpowered IMO. Sure, his air game and recovery are bad, but a one-hit KO... I can't say I like it. Doesn't look good for the game.

I think Mac can perhaps use a dash move like Ike did for getting back to ledge platforms. Mac seems to have an up aerial recovery like Marth. So if you play Mac's recovery like the Fire Emblem characters that may help. Keeping in mind about conserving your jumps too.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Greninja's normals look like they have either a slow start up or end lag, but in exchange he's got great range and they seem like they have good knockback.

He looks like a fast moving keepaway meant to control space to me instead of a rushdown character. Far from Meta Knight Returns.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I think Mac can perhaps use a dash move like Ike did for getting back to ledge platforms. Mac seems to have an up aerial recovery like Marth. So if you play Mac's recovery like the Fire Emblem characters that may help. Keeping in mind about conserving your jumps too.

But mac's up B goes straight up while marth's goes upwards in a slashing motion to the left or right and then back

 

[Jackson]

I would agree with a comment above, he seems to have good options. He might be like Brawl Marth (who I am very familiar with by the way), in that he has all the tools to win, you just need to use them correctly.

 

[Mypantisgone]

If you listened to the fanbase, all newcomers are OP.
All of them.

 

[Smaugfan]

But mac's up B goes straight up while marth's goes upwards in a slashing motion to the left or right and then back

Marth does slash up a bit in an angle, but it is still quite similar for Mac. I bet the edge grab will be a little forgiving for Mac players in a way. I am sure they want to keep a newcomer competitive.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing I noticed. He's got a short stance but the frog himself is really tall.

 

[Sonicguy726]

One thing I noticed. He's got a short stance but the frog himself is really tall.

Well he's always in a ninja pose, you can see him standing upright when using certain moves in x and y like dark pulse, scald etc

 

[UberPyro64]

Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are coming back. 6 works really well also considering each Pokemon game you can have 6 in your party so it would be perfect in that regard. Plus if both of those return then 11 of the 18 Pokemon types would be represented which is good.

 

[praline]

Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are coming back. 6 works really well also considering each Pokemon game you can have 6 in your party so it would be perfect in that regard. Plus if both of those return then 11 of the 18 Pokemon types would be represented which is good.

No it'd be 8 of 18.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are coming back. 6 works really well also considering each Pokemon game you can have 6 in your party so it would be perfect in that regard. Plus if both of those return then 11 of the 18 Pokemon types would be represented which is good.

But mario should have the most slots and it'll be 5 at most thus 5 pokemon

No it'd be 8 of 18.

Electric, Fire, Flying, Water, Dark, Fighting, Steel, Normal, Fairy and Psychic. I got 10

EDIT: also dragon because of mega charizard X so 11

 

[Sonicguy726]

Woops double post, Sorry

 

[praline]

Apparently I forgot Jigglypuff was Normal/Fairy... thought it went full fairy. Also forgot Lucario had a steel subtype.