Greninja Speculation Thread

[Comet7]

As we all know, Greninja was revealed in the smash direct today (April 8th).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWL4EuCp5E&feature=share&t=1h16m16s

So, what do you guys think? I'm guessing he'll be able to wall jump because he's a ninja. And maybe the substitute move will give him invincibility frames?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I hope Substitute doesn't turn out to be a generic counter.

Have it spice things up a bit, like allowing you to go invincible for a few seconds and having the doll magically absorb attacks that touch Greninja, at the expense of raising your damage meter by 10 or 20%

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[Eagle]

He looked like he had good recovery. There was a move where he vanished and appeared behind Wii Fit trainer. Similar to Sheik's, but like twice the distance. Not sure if it can be used in the air though. But I also saw a move similar to Pikachu's recovery but with a water effect.

 

[Speculator]

My gut reaction right now is holy smokes. This one came totally out of left-field. Sakurai sure is good at leaving me speechless.

I think wall jump is assured. his official site page is up now, so that might give us some more insight into his abilities.

 

[Eagle]

I'm guessing based from what I saw in the reveal;

B: Water Shuriken (chargeable)
Side B: Smokescreen
Down B: Substitute
Up B: Aqua Jet

 

[Comet7]

He looked like he had good recovery. There was a move where he vanished and appeared behind Wii Fit trainer. Similar to Sheik's, but like twice the distance. Not sure if it can be used in the air though. But I also saw a move similar to Pikachu's recovery but with a water effect.

I thought I saw an up special like Pikachu's. Here:

Spoiler: 1:16:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWL4EuCp5E&feature=share&t=1h16m39s[/spoiler]

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I made a moveset thread so we can compile what we do know of Greninja's moveset. I'll add the up-special.

 

[Garde Noir]

It looked like he had a similar style to Sheik, with sword-gameplay. Looks to be a sword-like player with good mobility, and projectiles. I'm excited!

 

[Garde Noir]

I thought I saw an up special like Pikachu's. Here:

Spoiler: 1:16:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWL4EuCp5E&feature=share&t=1h16m39s[/spoiler]

Spoiler: 1:16:39

http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/gekkouga.html
This video is shorter, and has anything you need.

 

[Comet7]

It might make sense for him to use his scarf/tongue for a tether grab. That's getting into speculation, though.

I'll quote this in the speculation thread then.

A tether with his tongue does seem plausible.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

So let's put this into perspective from what we have seen. He seems to be an extremely fast character will high KO ability and fast air mobility. If you slow it down, his water grab is pretty long. He seems to have a teleport move and Water Katanas. So speculating a tier placement isn't THAT difficult, but I think he seems like Meta Knight in a way.

Thoughts?

 

[Amical]

You could say this about a lot of characters, though. Sakurai said that he was working on balancing the game more for 1v1 mode as well as four-player matches, and he really proved that to us in this direct with the whole "For Glory" mode option. In my opinion, every character seems to be very powerful in their own unique aspects, thus making the roster more balanced by adding more strengths rather than by adding more weaknesses. Every character is good. I'm certain Greninja, as awesome as he might be, will still meet competition from the others.
I really don't believe we need to worry about any "Meta Knight 2.0" characters this time around.

 

[Sqa$]

I thought the same exact thing when I saw the movement. I picture Greninja to be a smooth mixture between Meta Knight and Sheik. While I agree with Amical that everybody can be good in this game, at least in their own respects, I think it's in the cards to say Greninja will be seeded higher up. I just imagine a Meta Knight with a projectile and a form of a counter with his substitute. It will be something to watch out for.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Every video has made it's newcomer look OP. The only one who deserves top tier speculation is Mac because he has a one hit KO.

 

[Sqa$]

I agree that that has been the case, since the person being hit is clearly a dead controller. There isn't any DI or attempt to recover in any of the segments. But even still, while contemplating the movesets, I think Greninja has a large amount of mobility and speed. I expect him to be Sheik with Meta's moves. AKA Pretty strong.

 

[Comet7]

He does have fast air mobility but it's not like he has 5 double jumps like meta knight. BTW he seems fast overall, not just in the air.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

He does have fast air mobility but it's not like he has 5 double jumps like meta knight. BTW he seems fast overall, not just in the air.

He seems decent the air at best in my decision. But he looks like he will annihilate stuff in ground game

Every video has made it's newcomer look OP. The only one who deserves top tier speculation is Mac because he has a one hit KO.

While I do agree to you to the highest extent about the video, Mac's OHKO seems like he needs to pull of an extremely long combo in order to use it without interference. Not bad, just most combos require *coughAirgamecough*

 

[Comet7]

He seems decent the air at best in my decision. But he looks like he will annihilate stuff in ground game



While I do agree to you to the highest extent about the video, Mac's OHKO seems like he needs to pull of an extremely long combo in order to use it without interference. Not bad, just most combos require *coughAirgamecough*

I do agree with you there, but we won't know until we get the game, so...

If this is anything like melee, Little Mac could pretend to be Fox and jab > OHKO. Or maybe a throw or down tilt to OHKO.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I'm not against speculation obviously, tier placement just requires knowledge of advanced level techniques. We've seen the least of Greninja, so it seems silly to me.

I do agree with you there, but we won't know until we get the game, so...

If this is anything like melee, Little Mac could pretend to be Fox and jab > OHKO. Or maybe a throw or down tilt to OHKO.

Infinite jabs have been removed.

 

[Comet7]

I'm not against speculation obviously, tier placement just requires knowledge of advanced level techniques. We've seen the least of Greninja, so it seems silly to me.


Infinite jabs have been removed.

I know. The first jab to OHKO. Like Fox with jab to up smash.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Oh, okay. I thought you meant jab to charge his K.O. Punch.

 

[Glaciacott]

I don't think he's Meta Knight 2 in terms of tiers or power.

But I do think he's Meta Knight 2 in how quickly everyone might flock to use him. He seems intuitive to use, agile and powerful, so I'm guessing his meta game will develop much faster than that of others like, say, Rosalina.

 

[FlynnCL]

The trailer made him look fantastic. Looks like he has zero problems with recovery, range or speed. Oh, and was that a multi-hit projectile that put Bowser in a downed state?

Again though, it's just a trailer so it's possibly not too long until we see what his weaknesses are. Does his Pikachu-esque recovery even damage?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

If you think Greninja with this moveset (whatever was shown of it) will ever be as over-centralizing as Brawl Meta Knight, you don't understand why Brawl Meta Knight was so over-centralizing.

 

[ImaClubYou]

I have mixed feelings whether I want to see them stand alone or together with a trainer. Obviously I'd want stamina crap gone and all the other hinderances.

Now regarding this thread. Are they really on their own? Some things I find fishy are:

-They were both introduced in the same video.
-Water and Fire type have been fulfilled leaving Grass to complete the gap.
-Making them an all in one leaves room for Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.
-Sakurai's a troll.

COUNTER ARGUMENTS

-Tranforming characters do not exist.
-Final Smash would be unique to all Pokemon.

I honestly think it's a possibility. There aren't many Grass types that would make a good transition to Smash(usually on all fours, if not, hunched over, tend to be overweight looking, etc.) except one I can think of at the moment. And that's Sceptile. Though, he isn't the most popular starter he definitely can work as a character and looks VERY easy to translate into Smash. I definitely see him as one of my favorite Pokemon so I am a little biased here.

Other than that, Sakurai can be hiding the trainer in the background until he releases the Grass starter. IIRC, that did happen during Brawls PT early video's.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yes. I'm gonna advise we don't go down this road, because it's clear that they are standalone characters. Everything about them points to it, and there's no reason not to think so.

It'd be kind of a **** move to totally change their playstyles after introducing them that way. Honestly, Sakurai's a troll, but he's not that much of a troll.

 

[praline]

They're stand alone characters. Sakurai said no transformations anymore.

 

[Staarih]

Yeah, the no transformations thing probably translates as PT being gone and these Pokemon being solo fighters. I don't necessarily see a Grass-type rep needed, since Greninja is in to promote the newest gen of Pokemon and not the grass-water-fire triangle. Or that's what I think. Charizard returns for obvious reasons, I wonder if any Pokemon can match the popularity he has.

Well, maybe Mewtwo. Hopefully Mewtwo and Jigglypuff do return, then we'd be fine with Pokemon reps. Yes, 6 in total in that case, but I can see it happening.

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

I would only agree with the understanding that this character was designed with the current engine/systems in place. Otherwise, who knows?

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

He's probably light as styrofoam.

 

[Comet7]

He's probably light as styrofoam.

I think he seemed like a fast faller from the trailer.

 

[Jackson]

Every video has made it's newcomer look OP. The only one who deserves top tier speculation is Mac because he has a one hit KO.

YES. Honestly, I'm scared of him. Sure, his air game and recovery are bad, but his ground game... And a one hit kill? Really?

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

Three Words..Easy to KO

 

[Cobalsh]

I'm starting to think we might only get Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff is gone.

 

[praline]

I'm starting to think we might only get Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff is gone.

Nah man, Mewtwo's not coming back

 

[juddy96]

I'm gonna assume the Jiggs is up (see what I did there?)

Mewtwo probably not returning either. But I'd be happy to welcome them back if they show up.

 

[Misti]

Nah man, Mewtwo's not coming back

That's really strange, He's not coming back even in a Pokéball... So I guess (and hope) he will back as playable character.
added to the fact that in Brawl, there were 6 pokémons... So Mewtwo has a chance

 

[Diddy Kong]

He seems like a sort of combination of MetaKnight and Sheik, but he likely cannot fly, or recover too well. Also don't think he'll be all too powerful either. He'll likely be a very technical character, and most likely High Tier but not expecting him to be MK 2.0 at all.

In a way, I think of him as a crazy buffed Squirtle.

 

[Jackson]

He seems to be crazy fast. I'm not totally sure about his power though.

 

[Mysteltainn]

I was a little fearful of that in the beginning, but after looking back on the trailer and seeing how much work Sakurai has put in to specifically separate the other transformations, I was put at ease rather quickly. There's also the fact that both Greninja and Charizard have their own panel on the site; I personally believe that they will indeed stand alone.