ranmaru
Smash Legend
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What was this about? Has July responded to this?
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I never said it was a bad thing, it just confused me because I said she was saying she was paranoid about you as you pointed out/joked about and you didn't really have much of a reason to earn that town-read from a by-stander's point of view. However, from your posts as of late, I have developed more of a town-read on you that I can see July's PoV moreso. I'll admit the Mentos attack is there but its not really...developed fully. I would like to bring her reads up here.
They are shallow. From here out I'll be adressing July haha. The rest of your post was just differing opinions on things/agreeing. =P
July my dear, what is up with this reads post? Usually you are much more analytical in your responses to things and this post does not come up honest to me and seems moreso rushed/put together quickly.
You seem to be handing out town-leans based on how often they post and if they poise questions, but not actually what their questions do or analyzing what is behind them. You simply say "I like what they are doing, kay done." and I gotta be honest and say I don't like it one bit.
Your Circus town-lean is a very odd one to have. Its odd because you try and be like "He is adding to discussion whenever he does post.", but you don't explain how he does it. You also say you like him because he did not get sucked up in the LDR dilmena? How is that telling of Circus' alignment? What does that mean for the other people in the player list who did not get that much more involved or seemed to semi-ignore it? Do you like them for it?
You say WL has "caught your attention" but what does that mean exactly, July? Has he caught your attention in a townie way or a scummy way? You say that he is being forward with his opinions and also flooded the thread with content. However, that's hypocritical to your Circus read a bit. WL's majority of posts have been consumed by the Ryker dilemna. So if we are going by your logic of you liking Circus for not getting involved too much in it, what is your opinion of WL for being overly involved in it? Deduction says it should come out to not liking him, but you say that you are fine with him? I do not get why you shirk off the WL read as if it is nothing.
What makes you of the forming wagon on him from Swords-Ran? Does their logic hold weight in terms of him being scummy?
Then in your scum-reads, I get a tinge of OMGUS because the only people to have called you somewhat "curious/suspicious" have been myself and Ran. However, you don't call us out specifically and you just say that you are currently forming a lean-scum on us for, what seems to be, not fully thought through reasonings. You say my questions aren't helpful towards scum-hunting, can you show me where exactly you feel this way for me? At the end of your post labeling suspicion in my actions, you lace it with agreeing with my WL description to somewhat nullify what you said beginning as a back-door. A major thing about this as well is that you don't try and develop a read on me by questioning me nor doing anything to try and show/fix why you feel that way.
With your Ran suspicion, this is where I get the major vibes of OMGUS because it feels stronger here. You call him out on him asking not the best questions and to be honest I am somewhat shocked by you at that statement. That is one of Ran's biggest tells and you of all people are a strong advocator of that when reading him and also know how to read him. You say you don't know where his head is at this game but actually, I disagree. His head has been clear in his posts at what he wants to go and it deffo got a clear smack in the face when he was calling out WL that he was a scum-read of his.
Your Mentos paragraph shows that you don't know what to think and say that "it helped and hurt him". Within your paragraph, I saw nowhere that you were trying to show where it possibly helped his case but kept piling on where it hurt him. I would like you to show where Mentos actually helped his case because I just do not see where. It looks more like you but the "it helped some" to try and qualify what you were saying just in case you got called on this suspicion. However, you don't try and analyze things further and just say "Happy with my vote here." and it just makes me cringe.
I really do agree with this paragraph by Ran because it does speak truth. July has been skewed with her reads and she doesn't seem to be looking for intent. She gave WL an out which makes me think more of a July-WL connection starting to form between the two.
The bolded and red statement is exactly what I feel and it hits the nail on the head in terms when thinking of things.
Unvote
Vote: July
- Joined
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LDR, you can shoot Raziek whenever you want.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 5,164
Don't have time to reexamine July at the moment because I'm about to get ready to go out to see The Avengers.
I've kind of been waiting on a post from Mentos to see if I should bother unfolding on that situation, but now people seem to be migrating toward Washed and July, neither of whom I have much interest in at the moment. I'll reread them when I get back from the movie.
I've kind of been waiting on a post from Mentos to see if I should bother unfolding on that situation, but now people seem to be migrating toward Washed and July, neither of whom I have much interest in at the moment. I'll reread them when I get back from the movie.
A bit busy today so kinda skimmed a lot of what has gone on, probly later tonight or tomorrow a post more in depth, but since me and LDR have kinda an ongoing back-and-forth I'll toss up a response here.
2. I agree, however I do think their was something that could have been gained from it in terms of reading July. She jumped to a strange assumption about my thought process, something I have often seen scum do, so I wanted to question it. And no I don't want you responding, I was just laying out why I responded the way I did to you to explain why I felt it wasn't worthless.
3. That's a plus if you work with us instead of as a lone wolf. And difference of opinion I guess on always shooting as vig(large game I agree 100%, smaller game I think it's risky).
4. Well, you said that there were a few players you would have considered shooting, so I assumed that the fact that he was present at the beginning was part of the decision. Regardless, still not a good reason to shoot him xD
5. I guess, but isn't that how most lynches are? You think someone is scum, you lynch them, they might be town but if you care too much about if they are, you're never going to lynch. I do see what you're saying in the tone of my comments, however fact is if I'm thinking you're not town, I'll lynch you despite the chance that you are.
6. *dancebreak*
7. *they're, sorry had to do it XD Anyway, I thought I addressed here your cutting a deal comment like I did later, but guess not. It wasn't skimming, it was simply the vibe I got from your posts wasn't "I'll consider what town wants" but "I'll make my own plans, if town agrees great if not oh well." As someone who questions your alignment, I felt uncomfortable with those vibes I was getting.
8. XD mehh I disagree and think the way it was done HAS been lose-lose(especially since, knowing my own alignment, the biggest thing that has come from it is a push on me which puts town in a big hole D1 if it goes through).
9. No response to this one? I still find it weird that you wouldn't make sure you were right before "correcting" something, especially with Kevin as a third party in the game, you had to know it would look bad if you were the one remembering wrong and you stated it as fact.
10. No, I don't, which is part of the reason I've got the SK vibe from you, because quite frankly as a daykilling SK that move is ballsy but with great payoff if it works out, and something I could see you two realizing, whereas I feel as town it is very hard to justify. And yes, this is saying part of the reason I think you're SK is basing from my view of intent and intelligence of the two options.
11. This is true that I haven't. But I've also been thrown on the defensive, with most of the questioning and points against me relating to that gun, and I'm not one to go about attacking others to get the heat off myself until I have answered what has been asked of me. Other than that I have been reading and trying to pick up thoughts on players, just simply haven't put them out because I've had to constantly respond.
Anyway like I said not much time to read thoroughly right now, but I'll respond to what I've got left to respond to/possibly toss out some other stuff if I'm feeling confident enough in it.
1. True true, but it IS pretty consistent XD Not saying to let me off for it, just saying its the case :31.) Self-meta!
2.) I said it was worthless from both sides. Neither of you really have anything and it doesn't really lead anywhere. I didn't say I took issue with it.
As for the second line, do you really want me defending a player from accusations? I think their trumped up bull****, but I'm not the one you were charging. What's the call here?
3.) Sure, I'll work with town. But you're not town.
Also, mechanics wise, a traditional vig should almost always pull the trigger.
4.) Nope, I shot EE for being EE.
5.) No. Your entire thing was, "I think he might be SK,.. but if he's town, then I don't care." There's no attempt to discern alignment, you're just trying to accomplish an end.
6.)
7.) Oh man, someone just proved that their skimming and just trying to get something accomplished.
8.) Nope. Call me an optimist, but I'm gonna look at the good part of the hands fate deals.
9.)
10.) So, do you think I'm stupid?
11.) Bull****. You haven't mentioned anything not concerning your own safety or my gun.
2. I agree, however I do think their was something that could have been gained from it in terms of reading July. She jumped to a strange assumption about my thought process, something I have often seen scum do, so I wanted to question it. And no I don't want you responding, I was just laying out why I responded the way I did to you to explain why I felt it wasn't worthless.
3. That's a plus if you work with us instead of as a lone wolf. And difference of opinion I guess on always shooting as vig(large game I agree 100%, smaller game I think it's risky).
4. Well, you said that there were a few players you would have considered shooting, so I assumed that the fact that he was present at the beginning was part of the decision. Regardless, still not a good reason to shoot him xD
5. I guess, but isn't that how most lynches are? You think someone is scum, you lynch them, they might be town but if you care too much about if they are, you're never going to lynch. I do see what you're saying in the tone of my comments, however fact is if I'm thinking you're not town, I'll lynch you despite the chance that you are.
6. *dancebreak*
7. *they're, sorry had to do it XD Anyway, I thought I addressed here your cutting a deal comment like I did later, but guess not. It wasn't skimming, it was simply the vibe I got from your posts wasn't "I'll consider what town wants" but "I'll make my own plans, if town agrees great if not oh well." As someone who questions your alignment, I felt uncomfortable with those vibes I was getting.
8. XD mehh I disagree and think the way it was done HAS been lose-lose(especially since, knowing my own alignment, the biggest thing that has come from it is a push on me which puts town in a big hole D1 if it goes through).
9. No response to this one? I still find it weird that you wouldn't make sure you were right before "correcting" something, especially with Kevin as a third party in the game, you had to know it would look bad if you were the one remembering wrong and you stated it as fact.
10. No, I don't, which is part of the reason I've got the SK vibe from you, because quite frankly as a daykilling SK that move is ballsy but with great payoff if it works out, and something I could see you two realizing, whereas I feel as town it is very hard to justify. And yes, this is saying part of the reason I think you're SK is basing from my view of intent and intelligence of the two options.
11. This is true that I haven't. But I've also been thrown on the defensive, with most of the questioning and points against me relating to that gun, and I'm not one to go about attacking others to get the heat off myself until I have answered what has been asked of me. Other than that I have been reading and trying to pick up thoughts on players, just simply haven't put them out because I've had to constantly respond.
Anyway like I said not much time to read thoroughly right now, but I'll respond to what I've got left to respond to/possibly toss out some other stuff if I'm feeling confident enough in it.
July
Smash Apprentice
I'm telling you how I interpreted their actions, I think it would be such a risky move for scum to make especially since they wouldn't know how the town would respond and it could have resulted in their lynch toDay. I'm looking at what I think LDR's intentions were; of course it's somewhat speculative and that's why I haven't lingered on it like a lot of people had, and I find they're play since then is in line with my town read on him. His play so far has been relatively focused on Mentos but I think that he's presented decent reasons for that and that he genuinely finds Mentos scummy, so his play is reading town to me as well.
He's caught my attention by posting A LOT, and like I said flooding the thread with content, even though I don't agree with everything and his first few posts were very theatrical, as has already been stated. His style is different because I never saw him as theatrical, last time I played with him I remembered him being concise and analytic, which made his thoughts easier to follow but felt more constructed. Here I have had more trouble following him, but I feel like his posts are more stream-of-consciousness style, which means he's giving out lots of information and making lots of connections that aren't carefully constructed.
Don't put words in my mouth, I never said he was town >
I said he was fine for now, as in I don't want to lynch him; I want him to see him post more so I can get a better read on him. Your vote on him makes me feel a little bit better about you, even though you only took a strong stance on him after I accused you of not engaging with much of the player list or having your vote on anyone.
Your first point is that he was overplayed, but what do you think of everyone who said that WL is theatrical and that it is part of his style? You seem to think it wasn't style and rather he was faking content, which I don't agree with.
I can understand your point that he's been fencesitting, but that's why I want to see more from him, because I feel like A LOT of players have been focused so much on the LDR/EE thing that they don't have strong stances and that its hard to get strong stances on people because so few people are moving the discussion forward. That's why I didn't say he was town despite you saying I said he was town, and that's why I didn't say he was scum, because he's active enough I think I can get a read on him if he keeps posting.
His points on me are what I'm talking about there. J seemed really bothered by my town lean on Swords and that didn't make sense at all to me because it seemed like J wanted me to be perpetually scared of Swords and keep him out of the town range altogether, whereas Circus warned me to be cautious of him but understood that having him as a town lean=/=writing him off as obvtown or handing the game to possible indie/scum Swords.
And saying that I didn't really do anything other than justify an LDR read was also something that I didn't understand and felt like he taking something that was not only a small point but that wasn't true because at that point I had expressed suspicions of Mentos and turn then into reasons to suspect me and possibly force a scumread on me. So most of my issues with J revolve around the fact that I don't like how he has misrepresented my posts, which I know can be biased and hence why null leaning scum.
You only engaged with LDR though, and that was one of the reasons we had the stagnation with it being hella hard to get reads on people because everyone wanted to focus on LDR and get out their frustration about his EE shot. And I know you were asking him questions but ultimately I don't see how you used them or what you got from them because even with picking his brain about how and why and who it comes down to a lot of speculation. During that time you didn't really engage with other players, unless you were asking them about LDR. The only time you interacted with me was to get me to clarify something on LDR, and I don't remember you interacting with anyone else; until after my post calling you out, you didn't ask anyone questions about anyone else unrelated to LDR, and even though I wasn't here other players were, but you haven't picked their brains either until now when I lit a fire under you. And I quite honestly think a lot of your read on me is OMGUS for my read on you.
You are saying that I should have provoked you to act like you normally do, which I disagree with. You haven't been open with your reads until after I provoked you by stating a scum read on you, and despite you saying that your questions went places you didn't state your read on LDR until JUST now. You haven't stated opinions on anyone until just now, when provoked by attention on you. You said that it was bad that LDR had to poke opinions out of WL, if I poked reads out of you it still would have meant that you haven't been providing reads and that you haven't been open or widely scumhunting, and this way I was able to provoke reads out of you and see how you responded to a scum read on you, which has been with OMGUS to me.
I've been looking at the intent behind your questions and your focus on LDR. I've been looking at J's intent in the way he's been misrepresenting my posts. And I've looking at the intent behind Swords and Circus's posts, which so far seem to be to scumhunt and move the game forward. AND you keep saying that I've given WL a pass or an excuse as if I put him as town and am letting him ride which isn't what I'm doing; I want to see more from him because I don't have a solid read on him right now. I also feel like putting out that my reads are weak is a moot point; I wouldn't say you and J were only leaning scum if they were strong reads, and I'm not going to pretend that they are strong reads just to make it look like I have strong scum picks outside of Mentos when that's not the case. You and J have done things that got my attention that make me question your intent and that's what my reads reflect.
Also, you've mentioned nothing about Mentos, what do you think of him?
I understand this, and I know that I haven't presented a lot of "new" stuff and unfortunately that's in part because of irl johns of finals and trying not to kill myself between mafia and school. It's also in part because I've found it extremely frustrating to read a lot of people because only a few people have been actively involved in conversation, and even fewer have tried to push conversation forward.With July, well that one's a bit tougher to crack, because the way she always presents stuff is in a very analytical form which makes her hard to read. I looked at here read list, and while some of our reads clash, is not nearly enough to get up and arms about. She's actively presenting reads which I like, but I don't really feel like she's presenting enough "new" stuff besides a town lean on me and a scum lean on Ran (for a weird reason to. "I don't know where Ran's head is at, and thus he's scummy for it?" <- Why is this scummy?). Her not presenting new stuff isn't necessarily "scummy" in itself, it's just not townie. I DID like her catch on Mentos earlier; I see where she was coming from there and such a catch must of involved some deep thought of the situation (or a bus, either one is possible
With the not knowing where Ran's head is at, Ran asked all these questions of LDR and put so much effort into questioning him and then he didn't say anything, he didn't comment on LDR or anyone else for that matter, and that lack of follow-through makes me question where his head was at when he was asking these things: was he doing it just to fake content, or to actually come up with something on LDR? After provoking him with my scum read it seems that for all his questions and attention to LDR he didn't really get much out of it, and his main comment was that he's leaning scum but on the backburner now, which isn't what I would expect after spending so much time trying to extract info from LDR.
July
Smash Apprentice
It was indeed quite rushed, I just don't have time to sit down and analyze everyone's play right now so it's a large mix of vibes and intent and whether they have provided content and to what extent they have provided content and how much that content has driven the conversation forward and how open they have been with their reads annnnd some meta, which obviously plays a role in my Ran read because I feel like I know his play pretty well. So it's like cliff notes analysis at least until Saturday and likely until after finals week, so Tuesday.
Explained mostly up top but just to mention it again, I don't feel like this game has had a lot of active players or people trying to move the game forward, so there are players like Raziek, Macman, KevinM and Marshy who simply haven't contributed enough to get any kind of read on them, especially when I have little to no experience with them so I need their play in this game to help me figure out if they are scummy/whether their inactivity is indicative of alignment or not. So there is a small pool of people I'm looking at and trying to get a grasp, and not gonna lie actually moving play forward has factored in heavily for me so far, and usually its that I don't see scum intent behind their questions, I think they could be used for scumhunting; when that doesn't happen, as with Ran, I said so. It's kind of a rough and dirty approach but it's still looking at intent.
I do generally like the people who haven't lingered on the LDR thing because I think the LDR thing has become an excuse not to contribute **** and still look townie without moving the conversation anywhere or scumhunting on anyone else; that's clealry one of the issues I've had with Ran. As for Circus, I feel like he's added to the conversation, and when I typed that what stood out in my mind was this:
"Not that I like butting heads with you in literally every game we're in, but you look like you're reaching for something with July here. Even with Liar Game fresh in our minds, there's nothing wrong with having a town read on someone if you think they're acting pro-town. What's bugging you about July seems to be that you think she should be keeping Swords as a perpetual nullread because Swords was able to dupe us so well in a past game. Is that correct? Is there ever going to be a point during this game when you feel you'd be able to trust Swords?"
Because that's exactly what I was thinking when I read your post to me and I feel like he was genuinely trying to understand your intent behind your criticism of my town lean on Swords.
AND asking Marshy and KevinM about their LDR reads in his #247 because he's making an effort to get people who have only focused on the LDR thing to explain their reads and get back into the conversation.
That's the problem though that no one seems to be understanding, is that he's posted so much and I don't know what to make of it. He's had a ton of posts about the LDR thing and then a lot of posts not about the LDR thing. Like I said before, the stream of consciousness style seems genuine but it makes it hard to get a grasp on his content. WL has been involved in the LDR thing AND other things, not exclusively the LDR thing like some people have, so there's not a stagnation in his posts where after addressing LDR he had nothing to say or nowhere to go. I'm not shirking off WL, I'm still reading him and he's not the brunt of my focus right now because he's hard to read and he's going to take some time to analyze that I just don't have right now.
I think that Ran had a legit point on the fencesitting, and that seems to be what Swords agreed with as well, so I can understand pressure on him for that. His reaction/responses to the votes on him should also help me read him so I like it :D
Ran never stated a scum read on me til I stated a scum read on him so you have that reversed. With you, the reason I had you null leaning scum is because I recognized that my major issues with you were related to me, in that I felt you were misrepresenting me and reaching for reasons to suspect me. The questioning my Swords read was a good example of that where I think that your suspicions of me weren't just wrong, that it had scummy intent behind it to purposely misrepresent me. BUT like I said, my major issue with you is over me and I know that means it's probably biased since there were other things I agreed with you on, so I'm trying not to blow a scum read on you out of proportion but I'm being honest that your interactions with me seem scummy.
I think you are retroactively applying things to Ran's behavior. He in fact didn't comment on his WL read, Swords, LDR read, or me until after I called him scummy. I'm not sure what you are saying is one of Ran's biggest tells, but Ran asks a lot of questions that go somewhere, do something, feed into a read. This game he asked questions and let them linger, and I don't agree he's been clear with where he's going because he was so focused on LDR for so long and now LDR is the backburner for him, which isn't what I expected.
It helped because he explained what he was thinking with the post about LDR town/indie, because I didn't think that his reasons for that were based on mechanics alone and that was contrary to what I thought he was doing, which was assuming that EE was town and basing his read on LDR from there. But then he didn't really go anywhere else in the post, no other suspicions than LDR, didn't talk about anything else he felt was scummy or towny, he's just remained ambivalent on rest of town in order to focus on LDR and has successfully avoided giving opinions on anyone but LDR so far, which is what definitely hurts him and why my vote is still there. Not sure what else you wanted me to analyze, not much else to analyze there tbh.
Already explained this all in relation to Ran, so yeah, I have been looking for intent everyone has added like 70 different layers of meaning to my WL opinion that aren't there but people want to see there, etc.
J, what is your read on WL, and do you agree with Ran's case on him?
Bleeeh such a long post, oh well, J's started it by posting a wall first.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
@July:
Bold, talk to me about it being speculative. How does this effect your read?
Underlined, what does this mean?
You also stated that you liked him for being observant. This doesn't show signs of confliction to me. Can you explain this?
Bold, you admit your attack on Mentos was reachy. Can you go into what exactly may have been a reach, and show if it effects your read on Mentos?
Bolded, can you point out how exactly he wanted you to be scared of Swords? (In his own words, quote) Also, how is this a bad thing? How exactly did J try to keep Swords out of the TownRange?
Bolded, I can understand you being confused as to why people would want to focus on the EE shot and all, but I wasn't focusing on LDR out of frustration. I was confused about what happened and I wanted answers. I don't see anything wrong with asking people about LDR. I was confused about them and I wanted others opinion on them.
I was waiting on your response to me before I went any further with my opinions.
Underlined, that is different. WL stated he had no qualms with anyone, so LDR's question of "Who should die toDay then?" was odd in the sense of a re-direct, a nudge. It didn't seem like he was interested in what was in WL's head, but interested in WL changing direction with who he would want to die ToDay. You said you weren't sure what was in my head, so you asking me a question "Where is your head at?" wouldn't be a re-direct, it would be a question genuinely asking me what I'm thinking. See this is why I find your reasoning for your scumread on me odd. You find me scummy for not knowing where my head is at, and THEN you ask me for reads. This isn't genuine to me because you were eager to slap on a scumread on me without even asking me first to then come to a conclusion.
Underlined, just the reason scum would do that. Again, it is wifom, and I don't think you are really thinking of both sides here and are giving jumping to conclusions with your LDR town read.
Bold, talk to me about it being speculative. How does this effect your read?
Bold, what content? Why is it good?
Underlined, what does this mean?
Mmm. You give a read list, and put WL down as fine. Not Null. But fine. You say you are conflicted with him, yet you have only asked him one question. Let me get to that:Don't put words in my mouth, I never said he was town >
You asked him about Marshy and Macman. Now tell me, why did you ask him about those two, without even stating a read on them afterwards or even a mention before hand?
You also stated that you liked him for being observant. This doesn't show signs of confliction to me. Can you explain this?
Bold, you admit your attack on Mentos was reachy. Can you go into what exactly may have been a reach, and show if it effects your read on Mentos?
I have engaged with WL. I also was waiting for you to post to respond to me. You and him were the only people of interest to me besides LDR. Everyone else didn't stand out to me. I read to see if there was anything that I may have wanted to ask/talk about, but there was nothing really.
Tell me why you don't. Also, I have said this to Swords before. Regardless of his reaction being null or not, I felt his conclusions were misplaced in relation to that reaction.
I think he has posted enough content to judge him. He already voted after a re-read. It seems he agreed to a point made by you, yet you haven't even asked him about that. Anyways, what did you think of his re-read and his vote on Mentos?
July, you do know that scum know who is town, right? (Underlined) What is wrong with J being bothered by your town-lean on Swords?
Bolded, can you point out how exactly he wanted you to be scared of Swords? (In his own words, quote) Also, how is this a bad thing? How exactly did J try to keep Swords out of the TownRange?
Why didn't you ask him about it? Also, did he exactly say you didn't do anything else besides that, or not? What do you think of the rest of J's play?
Underlined, I have interacted with LDR, WL, You, and Mentos. (I asked him about you)
Bolded, I can understand you being confused as to why people would want to focus on the EE shot and all, but I wasn't focusing on LDR out of frustration. I was confused about what happened and I wanted answers. I don't see anything wrong with asking people about LDR. I was confused about them and I wanted others opinion on them.
That isn't what I am saying. I am saying you stated you didn't know where my head was, yet you didn't do anything to clear that up.
I was waiting on your response to me before I went any further with my opinions.
Underlined, that is different. WL stated he had no qualms with anyone, so LDR's question of "Who should die toDay then?" was odd in the sense of a re-direct, a nudge. It didn't seem like he was interested in what was in WL's head, but interested in WL changing direction with who he would want to die ToDay. You said you weren't sure what was in my head, so you asking me a question "Where is your head at?" wouldn't be a re-direct, it would be a question genuinely asking me what I'm thinking. See this is why I find your reasoning for your scumread on me odd. You find me scummy for not knowing where my head is at, and THEN you ask me for reads. This isn't genuine to me because you were eager to slap on a scumread on me without even asking me first to then come to a conclusion.
No you haven't. You yourself said you were using 'moving play forward' as a heavy factor to determine alignments. That isn't intent. You aren't looking at J's intent. You are judging your read on J on one detail, and not his entire play. You are also using 'content' to determine your reads and it is glaringly obvious you aren't looking into intent because of that. (Such as your read on Circus moving discussion forward, anyone can do that)
I have a null on him.
Understood.
Underlined, it's obvious I wasn't trying to fake content. I did come up with something on LDR. I just don't have him as a priority because I have other scum reads I am confident in (WL and you) and we could use him to have two lynches a day. This doesn't mean he isn't a lynch candidate, it just means I'd rather lynch you two before him. Your reads come off as fake content.
I have a question. If you are looking at LDR's intentions as a reason to why he did shoot EE, then how are you liking him or getting close to a town-read on him. He has no intention besides his own personal gain and to just try and piss everyone off. What exactly about his shot gives you towny vibes July?July said:
My read on WL is null-lean scum due to this connection I feel is between you two. His actions overall do not scream OMG SCUM to me but it does make me look at him with a wary eye due to the fact of him and how he continously kept getting wrapped into LDR. I do have to agree with Swords/Ran that his change did seemed forced because it wasn't well developed in the first place but, for me, it wasn't forced in the bad way. It was moreso he seemed to realize he had a faulty read and tried to fix it. Without my connection to you, I'd place him as just a minor suspision that I would like to see continue so I can develop a better read.July said:
I will be getting to the rest of your post laaaaaaater when I get back from work.
@swords 2nd quote of #246
mentos' frustration is completely null to me. bro gets pissed off at dumb **** (**** that is legitimately dumb not saying he gets pissed off at things that dont matter) all the time and can def see where hes coming from. mentos seriously really is someone who if you just dont **** with at the beginning phases and let him do his thing his alignment becomes much clearer. this game has had an unfortunate start with 1) ee shot and 2) mentos being the primary focus
as for thinking hes town...ill answer this later in the game. waiting on certain ****
lol @ your gangbanger comment regarding mentos. i like to look at his avatar and think that hes the guy being attacked by all the little townies
i love js avatar
vote washedlaundry
mentos' frustration is completely null to me. bro gets pissed off at dumb **** (**** that is legitimately dumb not saying he gets pissed off at things that dont matter) all the time and can def see where hes coming from. mentos seriously really is someone who if you just dont **** with at the beginning phases and let him do his thing his alignment becomes much clearer. this game has had an unfortunate start with 1) ee shot and 2) mentos being the primary focus
as for thinking hes town...ill answer this later in the game. waiting on certain ****
lol @ your gangbanger comment regarding mentos. i like to look at his avatar and think that hes the guy being attacked by all the little townies
i love js avatar
vote washedlaundry
ryker/glyph would you be down to shoot whoever i ask you guys to?
gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet yeah?
ran i do have an opinion on july but thats a battle you and j can handle for the time being
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Lunar Disco Redheads (Glyph/Ryker hydra)- (1) mentosman8
Mentosman8- (3) WashedLaundry, Lunar Disco Redheads, KevinM
Ranmaru- (0)
July- (1) J
Sworddancer.- (0)
Raziek- (0)
Marshy- (0)
KevinM- (0)
Circus- (0)
J- (0)
Macman- (0)
WashedLaundry- (3) Ranmaru, Sworddancer., Marshy
Not voting- (4) July, Raziek, Circus, Macman
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Lynch deadline is set for 5/8 at 11:59 PM EST!
Mentosman8- (3) WashedLaundry, Lunar Disco Redheads, KevinM
Ranmaru- (0)
July- (1) J
Sworddancer.- (0)
Raziek- (0)
Marshy- (0)
KevinM- (0)
Circus- (0)
J- (0)
Macman- (0)
WashedLaundry- (3) Ranmaru, Sworddancer., Marshy
Not voting- (4) July, Raziek, Circus, Macman
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Lynch deadline is set for 5/8 at 11:59 PM EST!
Responding to July first because I said i would before I went to sleep. =P
The point I am really trying to convey is that I extremely dislike the way you are tip-toeing around dealing with me when I am coming right at you with questions but you keep going back and forth between "yes, no, well maybe." and not giving me a straight answer.
Adressing this section together, I am going to give you a bit of breathing room and give you a benefit of the doubt because I know you but I will say this July. I will be waiting for your post that has a much more in-depth analysis. At the current time, with what you have presented, it comes across as shallow as I've said and I'm going to leave it at that since you agree with that point for now.
Wait a second, that's one of the reasons you have a problem with Ran? Ran hasn't been focusing on the LDR thing and using it as an excuse not to contribute but has been scum-hunting on WL and yourself this game. A better example of someone skating through on that suspicion is Raziek. So is your opinion on him more of a scum-lean because of your thoughts? I also don't get how Ran fits this boat yet you say WL was fine when he was the biggest example of a person getting TOO in-deep with that.July said:
This point I will concede to because I do agree that the quote gives me town-vibes on his slot. However, you are just copy-pasting his reasoning as a reasoning for finding me suspicous and as you have said, the biggest reason you have me as a scum-lean is just based on me having a JulyScum read and an apparent misconstruingof your posts that haven't really been shown yet but moreso just fought off with words.July said:
This paragraph could have been shortened so much July because you begin to just talk yourself into a circle:July said:
However, you continue to ramble onwards about your WL justification which feels to be you are trying to over-explain why you feel this way about WL and in the end you say you aren't shirking him off, but the fact is you are doing so. Even when asked for your opinion on WL, you say null and then when asked about the opinion on the wagon forming, you just shirk it off to saying "Well it will help me develop a better read on him so yay!" when that doesn't even give an opinion on how you feel. Here is the quote in question I mean:July said:
The pink line makes me cringe due to it just coming off as way too fake.July said:
Purposely misinterpret you? I don't even get what you are talking about because I just questioned your reasoning as to why you had a SwordsTown read so early especially after how you talked about him earlier in the game. I really dislike how you try and bring points to the table against me and then you have to qualify the rest of the paragraph, "It could just me being blinded by my own self-bias." then you flip right back to saying my interaction with you seems scummy. When highlighted (like above in green/red/green) it looks like you are trying to call me scum but at the same time not step out of the safety net and have a back-door to me possibly being town just due to you being self-bias.July said:
The point I am really trying to convey is that I extremely dislike the way you are tip-toeing around dealing with me when I am coming right at you with questions but you keep going back and forth between "yes, no, well maybe." and not giving me a straight answer.
imo
lynch washedlaundry today without letting him claim so town has no opportunity to backdown from his lunch due to his claim. at this point the only protown roleclaims that should not be immediately lynched are treestump and masons. neither of which are in this game because they contradict the innocent childs utility and cuz were probably not in a ******* game
shoot macman tomorrow as ldrs first post so we dont waste posts and time *****ing over who should be shot and cuz hes scum
lynch raziek d2 without letting him claim for being scum
ill probably just do whatever j and dancer choose what goes down after that if all 3 of us are still alive d3 but i doubt thatll be the case sadly. last sentence is subject to change for me (i reeavaluate who i sheep much more than who i think is scum) but its highly doubtful that ill change my mind on everything i said before that
the games landscape after this kill list becomes MUCH different afterwards and is very winnable for town from there regardless of what laundry/macman/raziek flip
still lovin js avatar
also **** indies. dont put them in your games unless theyre sk or if they have a partner guys
guys lets get the ****ing agent thing done asap. not to be a funsucking buzzkill but i dont see a huge protown use for them
lynch washedlaundry today without letting him claim so town has no opportunity to backdown from his lunch due to his claim. at this point the only protown roleclaims that should not be immediately lynched are treestump and masons. neither of which are in this game because they contradict the innocent childs utility and cuz were probably not in a ******* game
shoot macman tomorrow as ldrs first post so we dont waste posts and time *****ing over who should be shot and cuz hes scum
lynch raziek d2 without letting him claim for being scum
ill probably just do whatever j and dancer choose what goes down after that if all 3 of us are still alive d3 but i doubt thatll be the case sadly. last sentence is subject to change for me (i reeavaluate who i sheep much more than who i think is scum) but its highly doubtful that ill change my mind on everything i said before that
the games landscape after this kill list becomes MUCH different afterwards and is very winnable for town from there regardless of what laundry/macman/raziek flip
still lovin js avatar
also **** indies. dont put them in your games unless theyre sk or if they have a partner guys
guys lets get the ****ing agent thing done asap. not to be a funsucking buzzkill but i dont see a huge protown use for them
i meant lynch
laundry might very well be adept at making us lunch for all i know
hey ran i meant for everyone to get the anonymous letter thing out of the way
July
Smash Apprentice
Responses to walls addressed at me, collapsed because they are super long.
Ran:
Underlined: If someone posts stream of consciousness then it seems like they are posting what they are thinking at the time, it's not constructed or faked or thought out too much. I don't know exactly what you want me to clarify :-/
What does the bolded mean?
Vote on Mentos was reasons very similar to mine so I agree with it, his reread I feel like he addressed a lot of things that were already addressed including J being fluffy, nothing particularly original nor scummy.
Here are the quotes:
The quote is posted up further, its part of the quote about my Swords town lean where he says it seems like I'm just justifying a town read on LDR.
I already stated what I think about J in my reads list:
"J has been another active player, but like Circus and Swords have pointed out he seems to be really concerned about my Swords read and I feel like he's been picking at little things and asking questions that aren't helping him scumhunt. I do like his input on WL however, I feel like "theatrical" is a good way to deem his style of play so far but that it isn't a red flag or indicative of alignment. Null leaning scum."
J:
My scum-lean is related to that^^, in that I didn't feel like he focused on so few people, in fact only his now scum reads, and the rest of the player list he admits didn't stand out to him, which is uncharacteristic of Ran.
As for the misconstruing of words, you and Ran have both called WL a town read of mine which is not what I said, or you saying that I'm paranoid of Swords- I never said I was paranoid, I agreed with Circus that his play in Liar Game was very good so I'll be cautious; there is a difference between me being paranoid (like I get with Kuz) and being cautious and keeping an eye on someone (in this case Swords).
Bolded, I don't know what you expected. WL is a null read and the more people pressure me to feel the way they feel about him isn't changing the fact that I'm having trouble reading his intent.
As for the wagon, I think that Swords getting on it is legit and that Ran has some good reasons for it, which I like better than his push on me. I don't find them scummy for being on the wagon and I want to see his response, but I'm not enthusiastic about a WL lynch and am sticking with a Mentos lynch right now.
As for bolded, I don't care; I know that I'm more critical of points brought against me and I'm not going to pretend I have a stronger scum read on you than I do just so I can look better. I think you are someone people should keep an eye on but I don't think you should be lynched toDay.
Ran:
I mean that you have your theory that it could be scummy, that he could have used it as scum to wifom, I have my theory that your theory is way too complicated and that I think its more likely as scum he would avoid that attention. BUT you disagree with that so you are just going to keep your opinion, and I'm going to keep asserting mine, and its going to lead to worthless discussion because neither of us can read his mind and see who is right. Like I said I don't think he had scum intent in doing it and I've tried to move on and focus on his play since then like his push on Mentos because I like the points he made about Mentos, especially in the beginning of the Day, and I think that he is genuinely scumhunting and finds Mentos scummy, which is townie.
Content as in he commented on Macman's vote on Marshy, he's commented on Swords, he commented on me, he commented on J, so he's made connections and is active. Why is it good? Because when people are active it means that more people are involved in the discussion, they make connections and such...I don't understand exactly what you are asking, content is good because it helps read someone.
Underlined: If someone posts stream of consciousness then it seems like they are posting what they are thinking at the time, it's not constructed or faked or thought out too much. I don't know exactly what you want me to clarify :-/
I didn't say town. How does "fine" translate to "town" more than "null"? Honestly, "fine" was more along the lines of "not willing to lynch" because I'm still getting a read on him, even though apparently that's not allowed because you and J are acting like that's the worst thing in the world.
I do remember that, I liked that he understood my Mentos push because I don't feel like many people took it seriously. Then he had a lot more posts about J and people he didn't want to die and I didn't know what to make of his intent so null overall.
I've definitely already addressed this but the part where I speculated about Inception Mafia and him assuming EE was town. AND I already stated that his answer made me feel better about that specifically because I didn't realize he was saying LDR indie/town based on mechanics, but I still don't like Mentos because he hasn't given a read on anyone or scumhunted on anyone other than LDR.
Alright fair enough, but with the bolded I feel like you say that about yourself but aren't looking at my pov for the discussion on WL. You say that no one else stands out to you, I'm guessing that means you don't have a strong read on them, so fine. But you are insistent I state a read on WL or why I don't have a read on him and and you don't seem to understand that I'm having trouble reading into his posts and getting at his intent. AND I shouldn't have to have a solid read on him yet or be pressured into a read on him because you think I should.
Because it seems more stylistic than faking content, especially because he then went on to talk about other things like I said instead of lingering on LDR.
What does the bolded mean?
I absolutely agree, I've said he's posted a lot of content. I'm saying that I don't have a read on him yet because I don't see his actions or intent as clearly scummy as you do. I don't know what your point is with the underlined, why should I have?
Vote on Mentos was reasons very similar to mine so I agree with it, his reread I feel like he addressed a lot of things that were already addressed including J being fluffy, nothing particularly original nor scummy.
That's not the point. J was saying that I shouldn't put him as a town lean because of Liar Game, as if putting him as a town lean meant I was giving him a free pass. He also said I was paranoid about Swords which isn't true, Circus reminded me that Swords was good in Liar Game as indy and I agreed so obviously I'm not going to write him off as town, but I'm not paranoid about him either, and I don't see any reason to be so far.
Here are the quotes:
D'aw you remembered.
You should also check out Swords and Circus' reactions to J's questions here, because they expressed similar feelings that J reacted strangely to my town lean on Swords.
Swords had already asked him about it.
The quote is posted up further, its part of the quote about my Swords town lean where he says it seems like I'm just justifying a town read on LDR.
I already stated what I think about J in my reads list:
"J has been another active player, but like Circus and Swords have pointed out he seems to be really concerned about my Swords read and I feel like he's been picking at little things and asking questions that aren't helping him scumhunt. I do like his input on WL however, I feel like "theatrical" is a good way to deem his style of play so far but that it isn't a red flag or indicative of alignment. Null leaning scum."
I don't see that you gain any insight on LDR or on the players that you asked about them though. How did your questions about LDR help you establish a read on them? Is your read on them based on their shot, or also on their Mentos read/other actions?
I don't understand why I was supposed to provoke you, and I didn't and couldn't have known that you were going to ask questions and give reads on WL, myself, and Swords until after I posted.
But why do I have to warn you before I pressure you? I'm getting information out of you now, and I did it while stating what I thought was off about you. I also got a response out of you. I'm curious, what was your read on me before my reads list? Your #262 is based completely off my reads list which is where I said that I had a scum lean on you, which is why your suspicions of me come across as OMGUS, especially since you've reacted really strongly against me for "slapping a scum read on you" even though I have you as a scum lean and my vote is on Mentos; you don't consider any intent I could have and just jump to I'm trying to get you lynched, and not that I'm trying to pressure you, get attention on you, keep an eye on you, etc.
I disagree, moving the game forward definitely does factor into someone's intent; are they trying to scumhunt or are they just posting crap that goes nowhere in order to look like they are contributing? And that's not all I'm looking at, but it's a factor in a game that's moving slowly like this one is and where there are few people actively contributing. Furthermore, I was looking at what else J has done and the intent behind his other posts, if I was focusing oin just one detail like you said then he would be scum. Like I said, I liked what he said about WL's play being theatrical because it seemed like his intent was to help people make a better read on WL, rather than to exploit his style to say he was scummy.
Kk, but he's one of the lynch options for toDay, so how would you feel about him being lynched?
I'm not going to argue over this because after that post you did give a read on LDR, but prior to that you seemed like you were gathering information on him and then just went nowhere with it.
J:
The way he talked about EE he saw EE as a detriment to town. I genuinely think he thought getting rid of EE was best for town because he didn't think EE would help as town and obviously not if scum. As scum or indie, his motivation would have to be something to help his wincon, so basically to stay alive, and I definitely don't see that; he doesn't seem concerned with self-survival as I've said before.
Kk, despite the fact that we have completely different reads, that bolded part is how I feel about WL; I don't think that reading him is cut-and-dry and other than the inactives he's the person I have the least experience reading here.
Fair enough.
8/34 of Ran's posts dealt solely with the LDR/EE, somewhere around 13/45 posts that deal solely with LDR/EE, so I disagree; they both got caught up in the LDR thing and let it control the first approximately 1/4th of what they posted. Ran just didn't garner as much attention for it, hence why I brought it up. And as I've already said, at the time of my reads post WL had made lots of connections, at least to LDR, me, Swords, J, Marshy, and Circus, which was most of the active player list, whereas Ran had made connections to LDR and to a lesser extent me and WL.
My scum-lean is related to that^^, in that I didn't feel like he focused on so few people, in fact only his now scum reads, and the rest of the player list he admits didn't stand out to him, which is uncharacteristic of Ran.
But I wasn't trying to pass that off as reasoning for finding you suspicious O_O I have already said that your scum read on me is the main reason I am suspicious of you, I was just giving an example of when I saw his town intent.
As for the misconstruing of words, you and Ran have both called WL a town read of mine which is not what I said, or you saying that I'm paranoid of Swords- I never said I was paranoid, I agreed with Circus that his play in Liar Game was very good so I'll be cautious; there is a difference between me being paranoid (like I get with Kuz) and being cautious and keeping an eye on someone (in this case Swords).
I found it important because you and Ran think that I have to have a read on WL when I don't because he's been hard to read and balance real content v. the LDR stuff which there is much of both of.
Bolded, I don't know what you expected. WL is a null read and the more people pressure me to feel the way they feel about him isn't changing the fact that I'm having trouble reading his intent.
As for the wagon, I think that Swords getting on it is legit and that Ran has some good reasons for it, which I like better than his push on me. I don't find them scummy for being on the wagon and I want to see his response, but I'm not enthusiastic about a WL lynch and am sticking with a Mentos lynch right now.
You read fake, I read "trying to be optimistic while responding to hella long walls before writing a 15 page paper".
Addressed this above with "fine"=/="town" and agreeing with Circus about Swords playing well in Liar Game=/= paranoid.
As for bolded, I don't care; I know that I'm more critical of points brought against me and I'm not going to pretend I have a stronger scum read on you than I do just so I can look better. I think you are someone people should keep an eye on but I don't think you should be lynched toDay.
I disagree, I've given you straight answers, they are just not the answers you want to hear, as is the case with my reads on WL and you. You want me to take a hard stance on you when my stance isn't hard on you, I've made that clear.
@kevin
help me
help me
ive been lazy and have just been skimming/ctrl+Fing 'macman' this game, theres been too many long posts but ill catch up eventually.
@marshy: im not scum. my vote was clearly bull****, just wanted to see what the reaction would be. I've seen you direct the vig everywhere... i think scumacman would be a lil better than that. i think youd agree
@marshy: im not scum. my vote was clearly bull****, just wanted to see what the reaction would be. I've seen you direct the vig everywhere... i think scumacman would be a lil better than that. i think youd agree
not really
generally I just let some time go by and if his reads align with mine (or they atleast make sense to me) I assume town
its harder to determine his role right away tho
generally I just let some time go by and if his reads align with mine (or they atleast make sense to me) I assume town
its harder to determine his role right away tho
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 5,164
Alright. I've been putting off reading these walls long enough. Gonna try to wrestle this bear now.
Macman, your 308 makes me want you dead.
Mentos disappearing for the last couple days and never, ever, ever seeming to be interested in scumhunting also makes me want him dead. I think he's been given enough time to properly try being useful this game and hasn't taken his chance. Will build on that if July, Washed and whoever else we might be talking about don't shift my focus. Currently thinking he's our best lynch option though.
Macman, your 308 makes me want you dead.
Mentos disappearing for the last couple days and never, ever, ever seeming to be interested in scumhunting also makes me want him dead. I think he's been given enough time to properly try being useful this game and hasn't taken his chance. Will build on that if July, Washed and whoever else we might be talking about don't shift my focus. Currently thinking he's our best lynch option though.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 5,164
Okay, so that was long. But not as much of a waste of time as I expected.
Feeling good about July; would prefer not to lynch her toDay. Washed is a slightly different story. I think the point about him being too eager to show his distaste for LDR's shot has merit, but it's not something that I consider truly damnable. A few people have rightfully pointed out that jumping on LDR with such abandon smells fishy because of how easy it is to do (and it is easy). It's definitely a style-over-substance kind of act. But what those people seem to be missing is that jumping on Washed just for this, in turn, is also easy. And since my (limited) meta on Washed tells me that this reaction is kind of par for the course anyway, I haven't really been interested in harping on him for it. He's null. He's not a main concern of mine, although I hate that I haven't seen him in a while. Would lynch without feeling too guilty about it.
BUT, I'd still prefer Mentos. Here's why.
I didn't initially have much of a problem with Mentos in the EE/LDR crossfire like some others did. What bothers me is what he did (and didn't do) afterward. While most of us freaked out at LDR's shot on EE, and some of us arguably lingered on the event for too long, Mentos is the one player that hasn't seemed capable of moving on from it at all. He has focused on LDR for the entirety of the Day so far, seemingly unwillint to glance in any other directions until LDR is dead.
Now, yes, it's worth acknowledging that LDR went after Mentos pretty much right after EE's death, and Mentos has naturally wanted to defend himself from LDR's attacks. But this is seriously the only thing he has done all game. I've been waiting for him to show interest in exploring other avenues for the Day, even if he has to continue arguing with LDR on the side as he does so, and he has just never gotten around to it.
This is something that would bother me in general, but it's amplified by the fact that Mentos said that he would do exactly what he's not doing. More than once.
It's also worth noting that Mentos points out that Disco's probably going to want to kill him even if he manages to not be the lynch toDay. I think that's correct. As a result of that, wouldn't a townie's instinct be to make the most of their time left alive to actually find scum? But Mentos doesn't. He just keeps banging his head against a wall with Ryker. Even in his last post, he says he doesn't have time to read thoroughly and post about other reads or stance he might have, but he makes time to respond to LDR. Why? That should be of so little concern to TownMentos. He's not going to convince LDR he's town through this, and he's not going to going to find mafia either. ScumMentos does, however, have reason to do this. As long as he can avoid the lynch toDay (which seems to be the only goal he's working toward), he can just kill LDR toNight, ensuring that we at least have to use up our lynch in order to get rid of him.
In summation, Mentos is happy to plant his vote on a player that he feels can only be town or indie until he is lynched, resulting in a lynch that does not give us any information for finding scum, regardless of flip. While his vote remains there, he is uninterested in questioning anyone else or presenting reads on anyone, or basically doing anything other than tussle with LDR. He has taken no steps toward actually finding any mafia, even though he acknowledges that there's a good chance he will be dead soon, regardless of how toDay ends. I do not see how Mentos could be working toward a town wincon with this play.
Vote: Mentosman
@Marshy: Raziek and Macman can fall off a cliff. But...
Feeling good about July; would prefer not to lynch her toDay. Washed is a slightly different story. I think the point about him being too eager to show his distaste for LDR's shot has merit, but it's not something that I consider truly damnable. A few people have rightfully pointed out that jumping on LDR with such abandon smells fishy because of how easy it is to do (and it is easy). It's definitely a style-over-substance kind of act. But what those people seem to be missing is that jumping on Washed just for this, in turn, is also easy. And since my (limited) meta on Washed tells me that this reaction is kind of par for the course anyway, I haven't really been interested in harping on him for it. He's null. He's not a main concern of mine, although I hate that I haven't seen him in a while. Would lynch without feeling too guilty about it.
BUT, I'd still prefer Mentos. Here's why.
I didn't initially have much of a problem with Mentos in the EE/LDR crossfire like some others did. What bothers me is what he did (and didn't do) afterward. While most of us freaked out at LDR's shot on EE, and some of us arguably lingered on the event for too long, Mentos is the one player that hasn't seemed capable of moving on from it at all. He has focused on LDR for the entirety of the Day so far, seemingly unwillint to glance in any other directions until LDR is dead.
Now, yes, it's worth acknowledging that LDR went after Mentos pretty much right after EE's death, and Mentos has naturally wanted to defend himself from LDR's attacks. But this is seriously the only thing he has done all game. I've been waiting for him to show interest in exploring other avenues for the Day, even if he has to continue arguing with LDR on the side as he does so, and he has just never gotten around to it.
This is something that would bother me in general, but it's amplified by the fact that Mentos said that he would do exactly what he's not doing. More than once.
Mentos says that he'll be looking into other people before he decides if LDR should die toDay or not, but then he never does that. The time he doesn't spend attacking LDR (for whom the possibility of being mafia has already been ruled out by Mentos, keep in mind), is spent defending himself from LDR and others. None of it is spent on finding any members of the mafia.
It's also worth noting that Mentos points out that Disco's probably going to want to kill him even if he manages to not be the lynch toDay. I think that's correct. As a result of that, wouldn't a townie's instinct be to make the most of their time left alive to actually find scum? But Mentos doesn't. He just keeps banging his head against a wall with Ryker. Even in his last post, he says he doesn't have time to read thoroughly and post about other reads or stance he might have, but he makes time to respond to LDR. Why? That should be of so little concern to TownMentos. He's not going to convince LDR he's town through this, and he's not going to going to find mafia either. ScumMentos does, however, have reason to do this. As long as he can avoid the lynch toDay (which seems to be the only goal he's working toward), he can just kill LDR toNight, ensuring that we at least have to use up our lynch in order to get rid of him.
In summation, Mentos is happy to plant his vote on a player that he feels can only be town or indie until he is lynched, resulting in a lynch that does not give us any information for finding scum, regardless of flip. While his vote remains there, he is uninterested in questioning anyone else or presenting reads on anyone, or basically doing anything other than tussle with LDR. He has taken no steps toward actually finding any mafia, even though he acknowledges that there's a good chance he will be dead soon, regardless of how toDay ends. I do not see how Mentos could be working toward a town wincon with this play.
Vote: Mentosman
@Marshy: Raziek and Macman can fall off a cliff. But...
No matter how many times I read this, it sounds dumb. I can think of plenty of roleclaims that I would consider legitimate lynch stoppers besides the ones you mentioned.
i know im in the minority when it comes to that
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
Some general observations:
July if you have time to make a great wall of china in order to defend yourself, then you should have time to scumhunt. Also my main point about WL isn't that he was "fencesitting" or anything like that, it's that he flip flopped on two things so to be with the popular consensus and he went out of his to look for reasoning to do so.
J your case against July looks legit, but I'm worried about how you've kinda isolated yourself by pushing July. The town J I know will go out of his way to keep tabs on everything, as well as put a great amount of pressure on his main scum read. You've achieved one of those things, but not the other. I find it peculiar that you've seemingly invested all your marbles in July scum. Tell me, any other reads that you'll like to share with us?
Also sorry Marshy but I do not like your avatar J. Idk why but something about a pretty face sticking her tongue at me doesn't really do anything for me.
Circus I agree with you that Mentos hasn't really been scumhunting and has been inactive as of late, however, couldn't the same be said about a lot of the current playerlist? The inactivity in this game is so bad that it kinda scares me that we may very well have a scum or two who are currently just lurking their way to victory. Also I think you missed the main point about WL. Like I said to July above, I mainly don't like his flip flopping. This isn't what Ran thinks but I for one take WL's overreaction as null.
How do you feel about the point that WL has been flip flopping?
July if you have time to make a great wall of china in order to defend yourself, then you should have time to scumhunt. Also my main point about WL isn't that he was "fencesitting" or anything like that, it's that he flip flopped on two things so to be with the popular consensus and he went out of his to look for reasoning to do so.
J your case against July looks legit, but I'm worried about how you've kinda isolated yourself by pushing July. The town J I know will go out of his way to keep tabs on everything, as well as put a great amount of pressure on his main scum read. You've achieved one of those things, but not the other. I find it peculiar that you've seemingly invested all your marbles in July scum. Tell me, any other reads that you'll like to share with us?
Also sorry Marshy but I do not like your avatar J. Idk why but something about a pretty face sticking her tongue at me doesn't really do anything for me.
Circus I agree with you that Mentos hasn't really been scumhunting and has been inactive as of late, however, couldn't the same be said about a lot of the current playerlist? The inactivity in this game is so bad that it kinda scares me that we may very well have a scum or two who are currently just lurking their way to victory. Also I think you missed the main point about WL. Like I said to July above, I mainly don't like his flip flopping. This isn't what Ran thinks but I for one take WL's overreaction as null.
How do you feel about the point that WL has been flip flopping?
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
Hmmm, okay, I went back to check and your 186 did make it sound like you didn't like July for giving out a town read on me (you called her reasoning generic).J said:
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
Also I want to make it clear that I'm aware that J has provided insight into others, it's just that it pales in comperision to how much he has been hyper focusing on July.me said:
J I am also concerned that you like July and WL together for a lame reason (person A giving person B an "out" does not link them together, even if you think one of them is scummy, and you should know this).
Well, tbh, there is no one else that interests me at the moment to put things bluntly. ^^" Mentos is being pressured adequately by the rest of the game. WL is being pressured by yourself/Ran and also the rest of the players I have no qualms with/are not posting at the current time.
But...its Katharine McPhee. ;_;Swords said:
I was about to say haha, I have given input on pretty much every active slot and given a somewhat of a clear read on them. I am focusing on July, but I wouldn't call it "hyper-focusing" considering the entire thing is found on this page and has only lasted about 5 posts in total. Now if it was 5 pages, theeeen we'd have an issue.
The thing about my July-WL connection is that it isn't concrete but its a vibe I am getting from the slots. I also know what you are talking about, however, it is different then "just giving an out" she is almost ignoring the entire situation and marked him off as "interesting" which doesn't even give insight to how she feels. There is also the point where she tries to over-justify said weird read on WL. There is also the fact of that line I highlighted that came across as fake with the "I can look at the pressure on him to develop a read :D"
Its not purely based on the out, but there are other factors I am looking into because she is walking a tight line with WL which I do not care for. She also continues to get into somewhat of a hissy fit when people(Ran) said she had a town-read on WL and goes into a rather largess amount to explain why it wasn't a town-read but does nothing herself to develop said read.
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
Well, it's true that this has only lasted about 5 or so posts, however it is about a majority of the content you have posted. Also when it comes to giving out scum reads, July has been almost all of your focus.
I concede to you that July has been dancing around WL in a rather odd manner. Stuff like "WL has posted a lot but I don't know how to feel about it cus it feels genuine but I also see Ran/Swords point about fence sitting and this and that and this and that" does gross me out.
J, you're given a gun and you have to shoot RIGHT NOW, and you can only shoot one of WL or July. Who do you shoot?
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Mentos looks like a special case to me, though I believe I was clear that I support the deaths of people like Mac and Raz. We've got a vig; that's what he's for.
Also, my main point with Mentos isn't that he has become inactive a couple times (though him disappearing when conversation moves away from the topic of his death is troublesome). The big thing for me is that he has not bothered to even attempt to focus on anything that doesn't relate to LDR, LDR's PR, and his own survival. The whole Day. He's focused on keeping himself alive and killing a player that he actively believes is not mafia. And nothing else.
I also think Mentos would be an informative lynch no matter what he flips. Lots of people expressed suspicion of him—looking at when and how people did that will be interesting once we know what Mentos' alignment is.
I guess I'll have to reread him. I don't remember this. All I remember about Washed is his flipout at LDR and his list of let-lives at the beginning of the Day.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
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I will get to the july wall later.
Circus, why is july fine to you? What do you think of j's case on her?
Swords, you state j's case is legit. What points do you agree with? Do they affect your read on her? Would she be a lynch candidate for you? (today or tommorow)
Circus, why is july fine to you? What do you think of j's case on her?
Swords, you state j's case is legit. What points do you agree with? Do they affect your read on her? Would she be a lynch candidate for you? (today or tommorow)