Gigabots Manfia - GAME [JUMB]OVER. Who got the Gigatron?

[Orboknown]

I suppose
I realize that.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

I apologize for the delay, we lost quite a bit of the original case in a copy-pasta mishap when I PM'd it to EE and had to work a lot of this from scratch. But lets get going.

Okay. Detective is not bookie. Detective is Warlock (you know, the one where they gotta predict X amount of lynches and then win, while also gaining a new power with each correct guess). BUT, I do not believe Detective is Indy. No, rather he's mafia with Ryker and JTB.

I've done a reread of D1, and amassed a number of quotes I'm going to use, but let me first clarify WHY Det. is Warlock and aligned with at least Ryker (the JTB connection comes more recently and from quotes in D1).

NOTE: Meow is STILL the stalker and still NEEDS to die. But this whole case is built of GAMEPLAY, and when you haven't played the game it makes it next to impossible to infer any connections with. This post also is based a lot in Ryker being mafia with Detective, and without actually knowing Ryker's flip for sure is tricky. HOWEVER, based off the actions Ryker took in regards to CC'ing Bardull and how it JUST HAPPENS to line up with Detective predicting that lynch that specific Day, I think its still a very strong point.

Consider if you will the events of D2, in large the Bardull lynch. Now, we know that Detective has claimed to selected Bardull as the lynch target for that day, and what do you know, that lynch went through! ...But lets look back at Ryker for a moment. Something that's perplexed me since that lynch was why would Ryker, as town OR scum, throw away his life to get one mislynch? Cop guilty? Possible, but considering the way he never backed off or even alluded to that until after the lynch was finalized makes me think otherwise.

Put yourself in Ryker's shoes. You have a scummate (Detective) who is essentially useless until he predicts a lynch, but once he does he somehow becomes useful (we have no way of knowing what kind of abilities he could receive. BP is plausible, but I would not bank on that being true). And so, Ryker CC's. The lynch is pushed through, and oh no Bardull IS town!!!

But Ryker juuuuuust barely sneaks in that cop claim. JTB shots Ryker, because:

-If Ryker dies, his vig claim is hella set for the future
-If Ryker lives, RR can predict his lynch for the following day and cash in on another power or makes Ryker look townie for having soaked up a NK.

Its win win win for their faction.

Next on the list of concerns is 'how do we know that Detective is lying about being one-shot?'.

The answer to that lies in the start of toDay, D4. We know from his claim that he does not have any means of having a PR result that would give him any confidence in a read (he's just a bulletproof VT now according to his claim). And yet...

Deitz don't say anything about who you copped and what you got we're saving that for later.

We're mass claiming today, I will be giving you the order and you will follow it exactly as I tell you when I make it, if you got out of order, you will die. If you do not comply, you will die.

I'm in charge today, no one is voting until I say you can and you will vote as I tell you to.

I'm 99% sure we're voting Biceps today unless someone's claim bingo's scum.



Your not a flavor cop?

Just say Yes or No and say nothing else on the matter.

These are not the words of someone who's looking for scum and has a pretty good idea of who's what. These are the actions of a Warlock who has predicted that my slot would be getting lynched toDay. Look at it, the way he tries to suddenly just take over and push my lynch without any justification to the point with enough 'confidence' to say he was 99% sure it was the way to go. He. Is. Still. Predicting. Lynches.

We know he hasn't won yet, but we DON'T know how close he is to his end goal yet. He could be one lynch away, and if he's allowed to predict his own lynch toMorrow we could potentially lose the game. As is such, I want a Detective lynch TODAY. JTB will shoot MEOW tonight instead, and then we will reassess from there.

So there's that. Now lets delve into the fun that is D1. I'm going to keep this as brief as I possibly can, as it is the quotes themselves I want people looking at. First thing of notice our buddy Detective does is post this.

And I trust those two can fit the role just nicely, if they aren't scum.

This is in regards to his whole Watson/Ms. Hudson thing. Just a 'yeah, no ****' moment. Unless of course he's trying just a BIT too hard to make it look like he doesn't already know their alignment. Nothing too damning, right?

But consider if you will, that he selected them because 'he could read them better than anyone else in the game'. If that was true, why waste a gambit on reading them? It would have been infinitely more effective to just watch them and read them without trying to force them into buddying you. BUT OH WAIT, he wanted them to buddy him! Because he's scum, and knew that if he picked weak players they would probably just agree with him without a second thought!

I apparently have lost the quotes, but Detective does not mention any read on Ryker until right after Kuz calls him town (even to the point where Kuz calls him out on parroting him). More cred to the Ryker <-> Detective connection.

And then we get our first post that starts to pull back the curtain concealing the JTB/Detective connection.

Kuz/Kat hydra, what is your read on JTB now? Has it changed from the scum read you had on him early in the game?

Hey, uhhh, strongest player in the game right now, you're not still thinking JTB is scum right? You have a town read on him now? Right?

I saw that post and felt like confetti fell down from the ceiling and like hot women were coming out to bring me my 'winner' trophy.

Even back this early on D1, I was skeptical of Detective being town especially in regards to John. So, I push him a little on it.

In moderator mafia he sidelined, but posted nothing of value. When he is town, he has content and reads even while sidelining. He'll drop things randomly insteads of viewing it in succession. He'll be incredibly reluntant too post reasoning for his posts, which is why I keep proding him.

In Moderator, John made a lot of mosts that didn't line up with his thougts, many posts that were rather jarring in reasoning. Is it the same here, too early for me because A lot of it stems from what a lot of people take as a scum tell from him that really isn't something that is for John. Him sidelining, is it bad he does it? Yes, well sometimes, is it a scum tell? No, at least not in itself.

I've seen his town games, his scum games, and hydra'd with him. He's not going to step up and make the content himself a lot of the time, you gotta keep asking him for his thoughts.

Note the question asked of him was to compare and contrast John's play in Moderator mafia with THIS games. Go ahead, find where he says if he thinks John is town or scum in that post. Please. Turns out, he only talks about moderator mafia. Somehow the actual part we need from him mysteriously got forgotten!

So I push further. I ask if we should lynch John based solely off seeing his meta be similar to Moderator mafia.

Detective responds 'tba atm'. REALLY working hard to not take a stance on John.

I ask a third time and get this (though he doesn't quote that post, he quotes an older one).

Okay.

Next question is should we lynch John? I don't care about whether or not you think he's town for this question.

You did say you didn't care about my read on him.

Though I do have an answer.

Vote: John2k4

Watson your fired.

Definantly seeing Moderator Mafia atm, still nothing even when prodded.

Now, between the post where he said his read was 'tba atm' and that post I just quoted, John posted a total of 5 times. And they are certainly not being unhelpful, I mean yeah they're ****ty posts but they're at least on topic. Detective was backed into a corner, and scrabbled onto the John wagon trying to evade the pressure on him.

And then, the real fun with the Ryker/Detective connection begins.

As much as I hate how he plays, seeing Ruy's Town meta right now.

Use the link on that quote and look at the reactions that post got. Banana balks at it. Gorf balks at it. Ran even balks at it. So Ryker posts this as clarification.

ScumRuy coasts and makes no effort to contribute or do anything. Blatant disregard for everyone else is TownRuy.

This head doesn't care about him, but my louder half might.

As for his lead-up to the John vote, that's more or less where I expected it to go. Quiet head wants to see where this goes before we play our cards.

Oh yeah this stuff was Raziek. Whatever, doesn't matter. This is actually pretty true irt how RR plays the game as scum. ...but it also means that Murdrebush now has this handy excuse to call Detective town for doing little more than being present in the thread. It allows for RR to be as shortsighted, obnoxious, or anti-town as he would want, and MB would be behind him with a thumbs up. Not to mention Raz leaves this whole stance open for Ryker to overturn later. Hydra splits are an absolutely disgusting scumtell, especially when they're used like this to allow backing out of a stance at a later point (or when they take a hard stance on something only to have their partner come in and change it after pressure is on the person, ie Joey defending JTB toDay).

Detective of course wastes no time jumping in and agreeing to it.

I was the one who put the vote down, RR. For clarity.

Also a lot of people hate my town play, EE, Chaco, ec all think I am obnoxious which is really true since it's not just one person saying it.

Back to the books for me.

Look, even people like EE think that is my meta! It must be right! Better call me town now!

Look people are confused why I voted at that time, I get why but I waited because I questioned him, and so did Joey time and time again.

Joey noted it here in a nice little case, props to him for organization.

~

John hasn't been participating in the game at all while still being here physically. This can be seen through all of his posts in the recap below.

Look at Gord's post below.



In this post, Gordito is showing that he has legitimate pressure on John. When John gets back on, however, he posts this



Not even acknowledging the fact that Gordito has put pressure on him, ignoring it completely. This doesn't change until I ask him about it here:



After asking that, his response is:



This shows that he doesn't care about the pressure being put onto him at all. I could understand this at the time, since the pressure looked pretty crappy as a whole, but after the pressure became more legitimate, although there was a lack of explanation, in Gord's post below:



John still didn't even question the fact that someone viewed him as scummy this early in the game. He didn't even talk about it at all until he was asked about it, which is something I'll get to later on.

He was asked for general reads on two specific people below:



Note that in this post, he was asked about two things.

Read on Orbo.
Thoughts on Gorf's reads and lack of explanation.

What did we get?



A partial answer to Orbo, and something completely off topic for Gord. He's avoiding sharing anything about Gord completely at this point. Instead of sharing a read or any thoughts on Gord's reads, he decides to post something completely irrelevant, the voting twice lines.

When asked to clarify the "Is he out of RVS already" part of his post in the post below:



John responds with this:



This implies that he knows that Gord is going after people that he thinks are scummy... yet he still isn't defending himself at all. No questioning. No reads. No thoughts that aren't below the surface level of thinking.

John was asked to clarify the same post again, this time asking for the specific meaning behind it, and the response was:



This shows that he hasn't put any in-depth thought into the game at all. This was when I realized that he has just been responding based on reading the thread without actually putting any effort into the game at all. He wasn't showing his reasoning behind it at all. He was just connecting it in sentence structure.

After that, I asked him what the point was behind stating that Gord had voted twice, and in response, this is what we get.



Note in the post way up above that he was asked for two specific things. "fine details" was not either of those things. He's using sentence structure and wording to get out of giving us any details regarding his reads and any of his thoughts within the game.

~

I waited and was reluntant to say anything about this because I was looking for specific tells over his town ones, because I've seen and played with him where he was town and people miscontrude these tells.

And then we get the justification for the John vote. Oddly late, I might add, but who cares about that.

The thing is...where's the reference to moderator mafia meta. That was the publicly stated reason they voted for John. And yet, there isn't even a MENTION of meta in this post at all. Probably because this case wasn't even a thing they had considered when they actually voted for John.

Next thing we see is Ryker starting up the Inferno wagon. Never elaborates further on it beyond 'wow look at how scummy this guy is'.

Vote: Inferno

bardull, y so much

jdietz, whats your read on meowmonster?

JTB is MORE than willing to just hop on board, with zero reasoning to boot. Probably because he's aligned with Detective and Ryker (!!!)

RR is a blind spot for me. I don't even remember what I've said about him.

Is he town or scum?

WOW. Yeah. That is a post.

Town lean. Could go either way though.

Figured as much.

What about Orbo? You asked me about him earlier.

Kuz says town. Instantly accepted by Ryker without a second thought.

Then, we reach a post that is just ... wow.

I highly doubt that there's a second Vig.

I did a pretty solid read of D1. I cannot find a mention of a first vig that would need to be followed by a second vig ANYWHERE. Note that this is well before Bardull's claim.

And what do we find toDay? JTB CLAIMING TO BE A SECOND (third technically) VIG. THEY HAD BEEN PLANNING TO MAKE JTB LOOK LIKE A VIG FROM THE START.

Now then, can I get some people to get behind me on forcing him to answer what he has to gain from not answering, what he was trying to accomplish wrt his RR comment, and why JTB would be a better vig target than the two slots he has acknowledged are complete shots in the dark with on sign of improving.

Ryker against Vigging JTB.

I don't think that's enough. I also disagree with the probably. He dies INSTANTLY upon a JTB scum flip. Seriously, I do not like that and I do not like the way he refuses to give out information.

@Bardull - I was the IC for Swiss's first game. He learned from me, hombre. He's the only other player to ever really pull it off successfully.

Ryker ALSO bracing to incriminate Bardull upon a JTB scum flip.


And there you have it.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

To clarify for those who don't want to read that:

-We should lynch Detective today since the warlock role's wincon is USUALLY get X amount of lynches correctly and then you win. If he's mafia, then he probably just gets buffs from each correct guess. The point is there is a CHANCE of him winning if we don't lynch him now, and that's not a risk we're willing to take.

-JTB will be shooting Meow tonight. My personal favorite of the inventions I've come up with is a 'discouragement collar'. If you've ever played fallout 3, its a color stuffed with explosives that blows the wearer's head off if they try to escape or don't do that their controller wants. We just set it so that if he targets anyone but Meow, he loses his noggin. This way if Ran uses his ability and its a lightning rod, we ALSO leave him unable to shoot anyone besides Meow without killing himself.

After that we've either won the game or use those flips to pick through who we're going to kill from there. Oh oh, and another thing I like about this version over Xonar's is we get 3 scummy slots guaranteed dead before D5 starts, instead of just the two from his plan (since Detective really very well could be BP from the Bardull lynch)

 

[Orboknown]

Unvote
wanna think this over, but pretty sure on throwing down a detective lynch in light of this logic.

 

[Orboknown]

and then after i read that whole ccase the tl;dr gets posted

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Vote: Detective

Orbo its for the best that you read the whole case anyway heh

 

[Orboknown]

true.
Vote:Detective

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Responding to second case now, since the first one was just faulty set-up logic against a mod that likes to test janky **** (which is what I've been against since JTB's claim).

Orbo, why did you vote for us without waiting for our response?

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Since your only defense is clearly that 'the mod likes janky ****'. But said **** is almost certainly the fact that we literally don't have a single VT in this game, not that your role and your role alone happens to be stupid in how it works.

Well Meow's too, but her's is stupid in how she claimed her results, not in how it operated.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The difference is that in your killing order, Ranmaru has no reason to use his nightblock because he'd die soon anyway. There's no swinging it, there's no preventing abduction.

In my version, there's less abduction and nightkills.

Imagine this:
We lynch Detective
Abduct on JDietz
Night Kill on Meow
Scum Night Kill on Jupiter

That's assuming Detective, JDietz, Meow and JTB are town or indy.

We'd be left with 2 town and 2 scum. Lost.
That's an unlikely worst case scenario though.

Regardless, you can see what I'm getting at. My plan has more room for error.
The biggest thing is that Detective is more probably mafia than scum, which means that getting correct guesses won't matter in the end because we'll simply lynch him the day after today, and tonight everyone is roleblocked.

Best course of action is still
Lynch Meow
Abduct JDietz
Block actions
---
Lynch Red Ruy
Direct shot to Ranmaru or whatever
---
Lynch JTB

It's late though, but it looks like my plan is better.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yes, I'm assuming one can't guess while being roleblocked.

Get@me.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Xonar from claims alone we can be pretty damn sure Detective and Meow are scum, and even more sure that JTB is. Throw that whole mess of a case I just brought up on Detective and it FURTHER cements that scum read, and Meow viewing and not giving a **** pushes her status even further into the mud. Why drag out killing them over an extended period of time when we can have all 3 dead before the start of tomorrow? Hell as for Ran we just tell him to not use his ability and you can have him use it N5 if you really want to. Plus remember we don't even know what his ability does.

I'm really confused by your most recent post heh.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Red Ruy can't guess a lynch when he's getting roleblocked by Ranmaru.

So in my plan, he has no chance to complete lynch guessed before he dies, except if he predicts his own, BUT BY THAT POINT, HE'S ALREADY DEAD.

Plus it stalls the indy for another dayphase.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Since your only defense is clearly that 'the mod likes janky ****'. But said **** is almost certainly the fact that we literally don't have a single VT in this game, not that your role and your role alone happens to be stupid in how it works.

Well Meow's too, but her's is stupid in how she claimed her results, not in how it operated.

Way to generalize a defense that isn't even out yet.

Your case has quite a bit of faulty logic and holes that we're going to get to.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Best course of action is still
Lynch Meow
Abduct JDietz
Block actions
---
Lynch Red Ruy
Direct shot to Ranmaru or whatever
---
Lynch JTB


Still standing by this. Also gives us more time to look at what flipped and draw conclusions. Sorry dude, your case IS really solid.
He will die.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Red Ruy can't guess a lynch when he's getting roleblocked by Ranmaru.

So in my plan, he has no chance to complete lynch guessed before he dies, except if he predicts his own, BUT BY THAT POINT, HE'S ALREADY DEAD.

Plus it stalls the indy for another dayphase.

Are you willing to risk the game on the assumption that he can't predict when roleblocked?

And if he predicts his own lynch and dies, it doesn't matter! His wincon is fulfilled and boom, he wins the game. Same way dead townies win if their faction gets rid of all the scum in a game.

Not to mention we STILL don't know if its a roleblock or lightning rod or if everyone will just look at him, wave, and then continue about their merry way.

I'm confused, so you're still saying you want Meow today and RR tomorrow? I'm literally fine with your plan, but just want those two switched. Except this way if RR really is BP, we don't go into D5 having to lynch two dudes, we only need to lynch one.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Way to generalize a defense that isn't even out yet.

Your case has quite a bit of faulty logic and holes that we're going to get to.

That was in response to your post you made. The one where you said the things I was saying were wrong.

And I literally cannot wait.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Xonar we both want the same things, but you're drawing it out a Day phase further. And yeah I can see the appeal in having time to analyze the claims, but I'm also ****ing POSITIVE all three of those dudes are scum. Drawing it out an extra day just gives THEM more time to spin **** their way, you know?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You're right. I'm down with your plan.

Lay it out concretely for me once more? Important factors are Ranmaru's block, my report, the invention and JTB's kill.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Except this way if RR really is BP, we don't go into D5 having to lynch two dudes, we only need to lynch one.

This made the difference to me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Lynch Meow
Abduct JDietz
Block actions
---
Lynch Red Ruy
Direct shot to Ranmaru or whatever
---
Lynch JTB
(abduct block)

VS

Lynch Detective
Abduct JDietz
Shoot Meow
---
Lynch JTB
(abduct block)
---
Lynch Ranmaru
(abduct)

Same amount of night phases, but in your situation, there's one more abduction.


Instead, here's a compromise:
Lynch Red Ruy
Abduct JDietz
Block actions
---
Lynch Meow
Direct shot to Ranmaru or whatever
---
Lynch JTB
(abduct block)


Because of the block, Meow can't do anything stalkerish. This is the best course of action. (eureka moment here)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Note that these are worst case scenarios w.r.t the block, but that's because I keep the possibility of Orbo Indy open.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Abduct block*

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

LOOOL
GUYS

How to avoid abduction 101:
from today onwards, we will write our posts in a paint file, save it to an image site and post it in thread.
No words used except the thread link, which isnt a word but a name.
win forever

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

the image link* goddamnit

oh and voting i guess.

i wonder if voting counts.
we can have someone try that.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Your ********.

If I was an indy I wouldn't open up with admitting all that. I would make up **** like I did in U trick'd or claiming Miller in Walgreens.

Your insulting my inteligence.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You're*

sorry broski

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Oh the irony

'your insulting my intelligence'

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

But don't worry about being called the indy, I'm pretty sure you're mafia anyway.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Instead, here's a compromise:
Lynch Red Ruy
Abduct JDietz
Block actions
---
Lynch Meow
Direct shot to Ranmaru or whatever
---
Lynch JTB
(abduct block)


Because of the block, Meow can't do anything stalkerish. This is the best course of action. (eureka moment here)

This is what we're doing.

How to avoid abduction 101:
from today onwards, we will write our posts in a paint file, save it to an image site and post it in thread.
No words used except the thread link, which isnt a word but a name.
win forever

This will, hilariously enough, also be what we're doing tomorrow.


Ready to end the day now. Thanks Jupiter for being the idea bouncing guy with me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Vote: Detective

L-1

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

I'm fine with that plan. The really important part is killing Detective toDay.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

>says I'm going to defend against the case to point out faulty logic
>L-1

Welp.

Commentary and last thoughts after lynch (from me, anyways)

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

I'm in the middle of something.

I swear to god if I get lynched before I get back, I will raise hell post game.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Unvote me now, get me off L-1 where an alpha strike is possible off solely role speculation and twisting the intent of my posts to john.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

JTB, aim for Ranmaru tonight.
Muscles, lay out the drawing options for me.
I'll be reporting on JTB.
Meow, thief from Ranmaru.
Ranmaru, use your action.

Orbo can stay put. Good job buddy.

 

[Orboknown]

Orbo, why did you vote for us without waiting for our response?

Because, jupiter threw a solid case and pressure on you can't hurt. plus what your role seems like it could be, and the dangerous implications makes it seem like the plan to me.

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Yeah I'd be salty if I had so much of my play torn apart and exposed like that too.

LOL @ alpha strike

 

[Jupiter's Biceps]

Xonar I've got a few things in mind. One won't work if JTB knows what it is, so I can't post that one in thread. Its overly complex anyway.

I'm still really liking the compliance collar or whatever I called it before. Easy to draw, just a neckbrace looking thing with a camera on the front to monitor what he does. I have it set to detonate if the wearer does anything besides shoot Meow tonght (or possibly all nights if we want to make it so JTB and another target dies).

I really like that invention because its Ran proof. If we all get mass roleblocked, nbd I resend it the next night. If Ran is a lightning rod, then he's wearing a brace that won't ever detonate since he shouldn't have a NK. As a bonus, if Ran somehow IS scum he'll die if he tries to shoot anyone other than Meow.

I'm open to other ideas if you've got them.

Also you told JTB to aim for Ran. You meant Meow, right.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No I meant Ran. It essentially doesn't make a difference.

What you were thinking about... well... can you add descriptions to how items work?