Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[?!?!?!]

I am still firm with my 3 unique 3 echo beliefs

 

[Xenigma]

So I made 3 lists of my predictions, the 2nd one is the least biased:

Spoiler: Pessimistic (as least of newcomers as possible):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Incineroar

Spoiler: Reasonable (in between both, balancing echoes and numbered):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Isaac/Incineroar
Incineroar/Dixie Kong ε/Felix ε

Spoiler: Hopeful (GS biased, but a reasonable number of newcomers):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Isaac
Felix ε
Incineroar

-
The next big Nintendo event is November 3rd, so I'm expecting something next week.

Oddly enough, I think your "Hopeful" prediction is the most likely. I mean, Felix might be too much of a stretch, but Ken/Shadow feel like locks for echoes, Incineroar seems a fair expectation given how Vergeben has gone, and I honestly doubt we get Geno without Isaac or vice versa since they are the two remaining major ballot picks. My only concern is that Banjo and Kazooie don't fit in there, but then again, they would be a very hype way to kick off DLC season, so maybe that's intentional. I also agree that the expected Smash Direct should be any day now, given we're less than a month and a half from release and it would be strange to reach the Nintendo 3rd event without getting the final pre-launch details for Smash. Here's hoping the hype is coming soon!

 

[BrolyShells]

you can add me as a supporter for Isaac. and i've heard that Isaac is in, along with some other info that may or may not be true.

here's the video of me talking about the info i heard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP_HWZ1i_oQ&t=

 

[Tiymako]

I heard his voice lol

I hear "Cornered" everytime something gets really tense in this thread. We make great lawyers for Isaac, we almost have enough evidence to confirm our boi!

Sakurai already stated that he has to be careful for what he tweets and what he says so that he can give hints and references. It's up to us to see those references in the right perspective. That Tweet is a 100% GS reference without a doubt, that basically confirms Isaac. He also says that he doesn't like to mislead so by referencing Golden Sun in a way that we can see it clearly. Every detail is accurate and very specific. The colour of the chairs isn't clear enough, but it is still a hint.

Come on guys, I know before I was very doubtful, but now I truly believe his is in! Don't let other people waver your believes and alter your thoughts. It's okay to be skeptical and doubtful, but don't let it be at the forefront of your minds. The more we worry the worst the negativity will get and it spreads. Don't let others get inside your heads. We are in control and that's how it should be. Keep it at the back of your mind with the possibility that he isn't in. Let's keep up the optimism together, even if it's an uphill battle!

 

[Isaac4SmashUltimate]

I hear "Cornered" everytime something gets really tense in this thread. We make great lawyers for Isaac, we almost have enough evidence to confirm our boi!

Sakurai already stated that he has to be careful for what he tweets and what he says so that he can give hints and references. It's up to us to see those references in the right perspective. That Tweet is a 100% GS reference without a doubt, that basically confirms Isaac. He also say that he doesn't like to mislead so by referencing Golden Sun in a way that we can see it clearly. Every detail is accurate and very specific. The colour of the chairs isn't clear enough, but it is still a hint.

Come on guys, I know before I was very doubtful, but now I truly believe his is in! Don't let other people waver your believes and alter your thoughts. It's okay to be skeptical and doubtful, but don't let it be at the forefront of your minds. The more we worry the worst the negativity will get and it spreads. Don't let others get inside your heads. We are in control and that's how it should be. Keep it at the back of your mind with the possibility that he isn't in. Let's keep up the optimism together, even when the it's an uphill battle!

Nice! : D I love Cornered 2001.

By the way, are you one of the supporters in the PW topic/thread?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I feel like I am taking a pessimistic approach with two unique and one echo. (This is the minimum amount I expect).

I feel like I am taking a pessimistic approach with two unique and three Echoes.

Likewise, my ceiling from optimism is six unique and six Echoes. Anything outside of that is impossible to me.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I think we're gonna see 2 unique and 2 echoes. Isaac, some kind of Pokemon or 3rd party character like Geno, Shadow, and Ken. Maybe 3 unique if we get the Pokemon AND Geno.

 

[Metocles]

Yeah, the tweet is the closest thing to evidence we have for Isaac at this point, and that’s a little scary for his chances to some degree. Popularity wise, sure, we’ve got more than enough to say he should have been a serious ballot contender. But does that mean anything for a seemingly dead franchise? Sakurai has made mention of relevance having a serious role in selecting characters, and sure King K Rool came back, but that battle might be much, much harder for a character from a brand new franchise. That’s my big fear, if for nothing else than it would mean relevance is truly something I’ll never hear the end of in discussions. And while our analysis of said tweet makes sense, I’m always a little afraid we see what we want to see as fans.

He makes lot of sense and their is lots of circumstantial evidence for his inclusion, but I wish there was something a little more concrete to work with that says he’s even a more serious contender for Sakurai. Despite Geno’s greater irrelevance, Sakurai has actually discussed his popularity and gone as far as to license him for the game. I wish Isaac had a little more to work with.

Also, I’m not trying to be the hype police. I just don’t like seeing our community start to bend over backwards to give him extra chances at being playable like the idea of two Smash Bros Directs or that he doesn’t need a stage despite being from a franchise despite all new franchises with sensible stage choices getting one since Brawl. Or even that there are a ton of unique newcomers left. I remember being the Ridley fan in Smash 4 and the insane degree to which we tried to believe in his inclusion earned us some serious backlash and the community a worse name. I don’t want that for Isaac. I’m not saying don’t be hype or excited or optimistic, but do it responsibly and just go with he has a good chance at being in the game as one of the few newcomers left, or if not, as DLC.

The relevancy argument is garbage. You can try to tiptoe around with the King K. Rool reasoning with a living franchise, but the character itself has been dead. Ridley has been dead. Dark Samus is literally dead in Metroid. Castlevania as a franchise has been dead. Awakening is now an old game (2012!), yet somehow Chrom makes it in. You mention Geno... and if that's not the nail in the coffin of relevance, I don't know how else to tell you. It doesn't matter if he's been mentioned by Sakurai or not. If he's actually in the game, it's not because he had a hot game release last year.

I actually think the biggest detriment to Isaac's chances are through how Sakurai goes about his selection process. Golden Sun has never had a home console release and it certainly wasn't started on one. The only characters where this is not the case is Pokemon and that is an obvious case as to why. In some ways, its even more popular than Mario. Obviously, I don't think Sakurai doesn't like handheld games or Golden Sun, but I think he's worked by standards for his selection process. For Golden Sun, unfortunately, it probably feels too out of place having never been on something like the N64 or Gamecube.

The only chances I ever saw because of this was taking the selection at least partially out of Sakurai's hands. Evidence of that is in those characters above. Ridley and K. Rool are very anti-Sakurai-like choices. As much as it pains me to say, so is Isaac.

There should be no doubts that if Golden Sun/The Lost Age came out on N64 or Gamecube that this thread wouldn't even exist. Relevance is such a silly argument. Relevant to what? to who? I'm sorry to say that if a 1st party Nintendo IP with 3 successful JRPGs to its name isn't relevant; nothing is.

 

[Wwlink55]

Don't look so down! You have our support!

 

[TappyBat]

The relevancy argument is garbage. You can try to tiptoe around with the King K. Rool reasoning with a living franchise, but the character itself has been dead. Ridley has been dead. Dark Samus is literally dead in Metroid. Castlevania as a franchise has been dead. Awakening is now an old game (2012!), yet somehow Chrom makes it in. You mention Geno... and if that's not the nail in the coffin of relevance, I don't know how else to tell you. It doesn't matter if he's been mentioned by Sakurai or not. If he's actually in the game, it's not because he had a hot game release last year.

I actually think the biggest detriment to Isaac's chances are through how Sakurai goes about his selection process. Golden Sun has never had a home console release and it certainly wasn't started on one. The only characters where this is not the case is Pokemon and that is an obvious case as to why. In some ways, its even more popular than Mario. Obviously, I don't think Sakurai doesn't like handheld games or Golden Sun, but I think he's worked by standards for his selection process. For Golden Sun, unfortunately, it probably feels too out of place having never been on something like the N64 or Gamecube.

The only chances I ever saw because of this was taking the selection at least partially out of Sakurai's hands. Evidence of that is in those characters above. Ridley and K. Rool are very anti-Sakurai-like choices. As much as it pains me to say, so is Isaac.

There should be no doubts that if Golden Sun/The Lost Age came out on N64 or Gamecube that this thread wouldn't even exist. Relevance is such a silly argument. Relevant to what? to who? I'm sorry to say that if a 1st party Nintendo IP with 3 successful JRPGs to its name isn't relevant; nothing is.

yeah if it was "consoles only no handhelds allowed!" we wouldn't have pokemon right?

 

[Tiymako]

Nice! : D I love Cornered 2001.

By the way, are you one of the supporters in the PW topic/thread?

Naw, not a supporter of Phoenix for Smash. I always thought his MvsC3 counterpart was good enough for me. However, I do like Ace Attorney! I love games like that, that make me think and solve puzzles. Not to mention it's fun and infinitely meme worthy xD That OST, the characters and the mechanics are always brilliant.

I am a supporter of the ones in my signature at the moment. ;D

 

[Metocles]

yeah if it was "consoles only no handhelds allowed!" we wouldn't have pokemon right?

Did you even read my comment on this? Pokemon defies all rules on this front. When your games sell 300 Million+ copies, you can't be ignored by an arbitrary designation anymore. When the original Smash Bros. came out, kids knew Pokemon and Mario. Pokemon was used as the sole advertisement point for Smash 64 in some regions.

 

[TappyBat]

oh so it's the "sell 678954 bajillion copies" or you're not getting into smash ever that gamefaqs is obsessed with got it. so no golden sun ever, f-zero and earth bound are out next game, same with metroid kirby etc. so only mario pokemon and zelda are allowed cause those are the only 3 that make 678954 bajillion copies. gotcha

 

[GoodGrief741]

The relevancy argument is garbage. You can try to tiptoe around with the King K. Rool reasoning with a living franchise, but the character itself has been dead. Ridley has been dead. Dark Samus is literally dead in Metroid. Castlevania as a franchise has been dead. Awakening is now an old game (2012!), yet somehow Chrom makes it in. You mention Geno... and if that's not the nail in the coffin of relevance, I don't know how else to tell you. It doesn't matter if he's been mentioned by Sakurai or not. If he's actually in the game, it's not because he had a hot game release last year.

I actually think the biggest detriment to Isaac's chances are through how Sakurai goes about his selection process. Golden Sun has never had a home console release and it certainly wasn't started on one. The only characters where this is not the case is Pokemon and that is an obvious case as to why. In some ways, its even more popular than Mario. Obviously, I don't think Sakurai doesn't like handheld games or Golden Sun, but I think he's worked by standards for his selection process. For Golden Sun, unfortunately, it probably feels too out of place having never been on something like the N64 or Gamecube.

The only chances I ever saw because of this was taking the selection at least partially out of Sakurai's hands. Evidence of that is in those characters above. Ridley and K. Rool are very anti-Sakurai-like choices. As much as it pains me to say, so is Isaac.

There should be no doubts that if Golden Sun/The Lost Age came out on N64 or Gamecube that this thread wouldn't even exist. Relevance is such a silly argument. Relevant to what? to who? I'm sorry to say that if a 1st party Nintendo IP with 3 successful JRPGs to its name isn't relevant; nothing is.

It’s worth pointing out that Ridley did appear in Metroid: Samus Returns, that Castlevania had a game in 2014, and that Chrom appeared in FE Heroes, Warriors, Fates, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, and more after the release of Awakening.

Not that I believe that they got in due to anything but popularity, but if you want to shut naysayers up, K. Rool is all we got for now.

 

[Metocles]

Not really... I don't care how many copies a game or series sells in particular. But it's disingenuous to ignore the fact that Pokemon is ridiculously more popular and thus an exception to the rule as to why that specific series in particular, even when it came from a handheld, could not be ignored in a crossover game. Especially in the climax of Pokemon's popularity.

You are even proving my first point. F-Zero and Earthbound are two series that started on Nintendo home consoles and they have representation in Smash. Same with Kirby and Metroid. The whole point to my theory is that Sakurai imposes some kind of rule that he looks at home consoles as a point of emphasis. The comparison between Golden Sun and Pikmin is perfect here. Both of their first two games came out at roughly the same time. Golden Sun was more popular and sold more yet Pikmin was on a home console. Who gets in Brawl?

It’s worth pointing out that Ridley did appear in Metroid: Samus Returns, that Castlevania had a game in 2014, and that Chrom appeared in FE Heroes, Warriors, Fates, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, and more after the release of Awakening.

Not that I believe that they got in due to anything but popularity, but if you want to shut naysayers up, K. Rool is all we got for now.

Like I said a few posts above, relevant to who or what? Relevance is such a relative term and you have to keep asking questions. Is Ridley relevant to Metroid? Of course. To Nintendo? Sure. More so than Link is to the Legend of Zelda? See what a crapshoot that becomes? You start dividing into who is 'deserving' which is just stupid. I think the problem we're making here is conflating relevance with recency and both are just bankrupt ideas. The only decent relevancy question worth asking anymore is if "X" character is relevant to Nintendo. Of course all of those above are. But so is Isaac; so what? I don't need any specific character to combat naysayers because if it.


Edit: I just made word salad and wanted to get more to the point here.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Not really... I don't care how many copies a game or series sells in particular. But it's disingenuous to ignore the fact that Pokemon is ridiculously more popular and thus an exception to the rule as to why that specific series in particular, even when it came from a handheld, could not be ignored in a crossover game. Especially in the climax of Pokemon's popularity.

You are even proving my first point. F-Zero and Earthbound are two series that started on Nintendo home consoles and they have representation in Smash. Same with Kirby and Metroid. The whole point to my theory is that Sakurai imposes some kind of rule that he looks at home consoles as a point of emphasis. The comparison between Golden Sun and Pikmin is perfect here. Both of their first two games came out at roughly the same time. Golden Sun was more popular and sold more yet Pikmin was on a home console. Who gets in Brawl?


Maybe I was too forthwith with saying that about Ridley, since he's never been a non-relevant character being the main antagonist in Metroid. But it still stands that Sakurai is on record for talking out against him. Yet... he's in. And the ballot was in 2015, not 2017, so Samus Returns is kind of backtracking something that happened now from a choice that happened long ago. For Castlevania, Simon and Richter are dead as characters then, is that good? Lord of Shadows 2 did terribly and doesn't even have the most recent protagonist here. And for all intents and purposes I would consider the story of Chrom to be pretty much over. Certainly Fire Emblem thinks that way. Are we going to say that every single Fire Emblem character in existence is relevant because you can get them as some one-off character or DLC in every Fire Emblem game?

The main point to all of these is, if they were going for relevancy, you would not pick Chrom or Simon/Richter or Dark Samus. You'd pick the latest, hottest new character out there. And there's plenty to pick from.

I agree, just repeating what I’ve heard people say. The only character people can’t really pin relevance on is K. Rool.

 

[Nazyrus]

Bless the heavens for Sakurai giving us K. Rool, not so much because it made the fans happy, but to debunk some people's silly beliefs on how Sakurai's criteria for putting characters in the game works once again, lol. The man will always keep up on surprsing us, that's the one thing i want to hold on to, which funnily enough allows us to hope for whoever character we are supporting atm, at least Isaac for sure.

 

[Nossnitro102]

Did Billybae10K see this yet? Just curious. Not meaning to start anything or whatnot just my curiosity is rampant right now. Plus um.. Danganronpa is on my mind right now since I'm currently looking into it. If you like Phoenix Wright you'd probably like that series easy.
That aside, I talked to this random dude about Ultimate and brought up Isaac and he sounded very convinced that he's not happening.

But I think there is more to what we are getting than people think. People have too low of expectations but I also think we have too many at the same time. Odd I know.
Edit: Trophies? Yep I'm new here I didn't even know these existed.

 

[N3ON]

Did Billybae10K see this yet? Just curious. Not meaning to start anything or whatnot just my curiosity is rampant right now.

Creating a leak for a specific Youtube presence to cover, then stating at the end that the leak is fake but cover it anyway for views?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

The relevancy argument is garbage. You can try to tiptoe around with the King K. Rool reasoning with a living franchise, but the character itself has been dead. Ridley has been dead. Dark Samus is literally dead in Metroid. Castlevania as a franchise has been dead. Awakening is now an old game (2012!), yet somehow Chrom makes it in. You mention Geno... and if that's not the nail in the coffin of relevance, I don't know how else to tell you. It doesn't matter if he's been mentioned by Sakurai or not. If he's actually in the game, it's not because he had a hot game release last year.

I actually think the biggest detriment to Isaac's chances are through how Sakurai goes about his selection process. Golden Sun has never had a home console release and it certainly wasn't started on one. The only characters where this is not the case is Pokemon and that is an obvious case as to why. In some ways, its even more popular than Mario. Obviously, I don't think Sakurai doesn't like handheld games or Golden Sun, but I think he's worked by standards for his selection process. For Golden Sun, unfortunately, it probably feels too out of place having never been on something like the N64 or Gamecube.

The only chances I ever saw because of this was taking the selection at least partially out of Sakurai's hands. Evidence of that is in those characters above. Ridley and K. Rool are very anti-Sakurai-like choices. As much as it pains me to say, so is Isaac.

There should be no doubts that if Golden Sun/The Lost Age came out on N64 or Gamecube that this thread wouldn't even exist. Relevance is such a silly argument. Relevant to what? to who? I'm sorry to say that if a 1st party Nintendo IP with 3 successful JRPGs to its name isn't relevant; nothing is.

All of the characters you use for examples are from franchises that already exist in Smash Bros., which is exactly my point. You're not upending a franchise from the grave, you're just doing a single character. The dead Nintendo franchises are the ones that don't have playable fighters sadly, and Golden Sun falls into that realm. Third parties don't really play by our standard rules as Mega Man and Castlevania exist in Smash as the sort of legacy fighters from the NES era that they're so heavily associated with. The names of those franchises (Even if now dormant) carry a ton of weight. Living franchises certainly have much, much, much more opportunity to reintroduce characters. Also, Ridley is most certainly not dead and continually shows up in Metroid games and references to the franchise.

Even Geno who screams irrelevance belongs to Mario for all practical purposes. Though my ideas of him were actually in a completely unrelated point to the irrelevance discussion I was making. That entire part of my post was hey, we can at least point to Sakurai knowing who he is and taking time and money to license him which would be his primary hurdle other than priorities in development. That's a much more concrete sort of proof than many characters have sort of thing.

Again, my fear is that the franchise element of being dead is an obstacle that could be too far to overcome for even someone as supported as Isaac. The ONLY precedent we have with this is Pit and Kid Icarus, and well, that's objectively Sakurai bias deciding to add an older retro franchise and then personally ushering it to the new era. Can this happen with a franchise that Sakurai isn't so personally keen on (I mean he's never mentioned Golden Sun in any capacity). I personally don't see why not with the amount of fan demand Golden Sun and Isaac seem to have for Smash in general, but Sakurai has always had questionable reasons for not including characters previously.

Also, yeah no, the handheld arena is not a point I'm going to agree on as him having some sort of bias against handheld inclusion. People have already brought up Pokemon and that comprises nine of our characters so far (Possibly ten). Of the seven Fire Emblem characters, five of them come from handheld FE games. Kid Icarus is more associated with handhelds than console at this point (two handheld games, one on NES). Isabelle and Animal Crossing as a whole likely owes everything to the handheld side where it absolutely ballooned. Electroplankton of all things has a stage. There's a lot of handheld selection already going on. You're actually pretty hard pressed to find Nintendo franchises that are handheld exclusive beyond Golden Sun, so I think there's little merit to saying that Golden Sun isn't included because of it's handheld origins.

Finally, and I hate to do this because I'm essentially validating some of the relevancy argument, Golden Sun is not currently relevant. There has not been a single reference to the series for eight years at this point. Relevancy relies on the basis that games reached a large audience and have had recent releases. Golden Sun has comparatively missed the boat release wise with all three of the games in relation to Smash Bros. Dark Dawn was the closest and that game did not do particularly well. If Nintendo does not see a future or an immediate presence of the character, then that is how characters and franchises are deemed irrelevant. You're correct, there isn't an exact metric to this argument, but there's a general flow people assume when using it.

Isaac would be get in to the game in spite of relevancy, not because he was proven to be relevant. That's why I'll be ecstatic if Golden Sun does indeed get playable representation in Smash. King K. Rool cracked the surface of relevancy with the point that fans could override it. Golden Sun is the next step in having fans usher in not only a dead character, but an ENTIRE DEAD FRANCHISE just through continual love and support and shatter the notions of relevancy. Then we can stop hearing about how it plays roles in character choices completely. As it stands, we're so, so close to being able to do that, and that's exactly what I want to happen. I want Isaac himself as much as I want to be able to lay that argument truly to rest.

 

[Billybae10K]

Did Billybae10K see this yet? Just curious. Not meaning to start anything or whatnot just my curiosity is rampant right now. Plus um.. Danganronpa is on my mind right now since I'm currently looking into it. If you like Phoenix Wright you'd probably like that series easy.
That aside, I talked to this random dude about Ultimate and brought up Isaac and he sounded very convinced that he's not happening.

But I think there is more to what we are getting than people think. People have too low of expectations but I also think we have too many at the same time. Odd I know.
Edit: Trophies? Yep I'm new here I didn't even know these existed.

Creating a leak for a specific Youtube presence to cover, then stating at the end that the leak is fake but cover it anyway for views?

Why do people do this? Really, why do people do this? Normally if a leak is calling out a media figure or youtuber, that's already a bad sign that it's being made simply for the coverage and I ain't about that life myself.

 

[Xithyl_kykorl]

All of the characters you use for examples are from franchises that already exist in Smash Bros., which is exactly my point. You're not upending a franchise from the grave, you're just doing a single character. The dead Nintendo franchises are the ones that don't have playable fighters sadly, and Golden Sun falls into that realm. Third parties don't really play by our standard rules as Mega Man and Castlevania exist in Smash as the sort of legacy fighters from the NES era that they're so heavily associated with. The names of those franchises (Even if now dormant) carry a ton of weight. Living franchises certainly have much, much, much more opportunity to reintroduce characters. Also, Ridley is most certainly not dead and continually shows up in Metroid games and references to the franchise.

Even Geno who screams irrelevance belongs to Mario for all practical purposes. Though my ideas of him were actually in a completely unrelated point to the irrelevance discussion I was making. That entire part of my post was hey, we can at least point to Sakurai knowing who he is and taking time and money to license him which would be his primary hurdle other than priorities in development. That's a much more concrete sort of proof than many characters have sort of thing.

Again, my fear is that the franchise element of being dead is an obstacle that could be too far to overcome for even someone as supported as Isaac. The ONLY precedent we have with this is Pit and Kid Icarus, and well, that's objectively Sakurai bias deciding to add an older retro franchise and then personally ushering it to the new era. Can this happen with a franchise that Sakurai isn't so personally keen on (I mean he's never mentioned Golden Sun in any capacity). I personally don't see why not with the amount of fan demand Golden Sun and Isaac seem to have for Smash in general, but Sakurai has always had questionable reasons for not including characters previously.

Also, yeah no, the handheld arena is not a point I'm going to agree on as him having some sort of bias against handheld inclusion. People have already brought up Pokemon and that comprises nine of our characters so far (Possibly ten). Of the seven Fire Emblem characters, five of them come from handheld FE games. Kid Icarus is more associated with handhelds than console at this point (two handheld games, one on NES). Isabelle and Animal Crossing as a whole likely owes everything to the handheld side where it absolutely ballooned. Electroplankton of all things has a stage. There's a lot of handheld selection already going on. You're actually pretty hard pressed to find Nintendo franchises that are handheld exclusive beyond Golden Sun, so I think there's little merit to saying that Golden Sun isn't included because of it's handheld origins.

Finally, and I hate to do this because I'm essentially validating some of the relevancy argument, Golden Sun is not currently relevant. There has not been a single reference to the series for eight years at this point. Relevancy relies on the basis that games reached a large audience and have had recent releases. Golden Sun has comparatively missed the boat release wise with all three of the games in relation to Smash Bros. Dark Dawn was the closest and that game did not do particularly well. If Nintendo does not see a future or an immediate presence of the character, then that is how characters and franchises are deemed irrelevant. You're correct, there isn't an exact metric to this argument, but there's a general flow people assume when using it.

Isaac would be get in to the game in spite of relevancy, not because he was proven to be relevant. That's why I'll be ecstatic if Golden Sun does indeed get playable representation in Smash. King K. Rool cracked the surface of relevancy with the point that fans could override it. Golden Sun is the next step in having fans usher in not only a dead character, but an ENTIRE DEAD FRANCHISE just through continual love and support and shatter the notions of relevancy. Then we can stop hearing about how it plays roles in character choices completely. As it stands, we're so, so close to being able to do that, and that's exactly what I want to happen. I want Isaac himself as much as I want to be able to lay that argument truly to rest.

I'd like to point something out here, The roster was likely decided upon 5 years ago. That would have meant that Golden Sun would have had a release within the past 3 years in accordance to being selected, so not necessarily long enough at that specific point in time to consider the franchise "irrelevant", despite Dark Dawn not doing as well as the other games. On top of this, Isaac is the most wanted newcomer for a new 1st party series, and potentially even for all current Nintendo characters if the polls are anything to go by. Some people try to pass off Golden Sun as niche, or obscure, but in actuality, it's fairly popular. It's certainly not mainstream levels of popular, but nowhere near niche.

Isaac's in a very unique spot compared to most big names that people are hoping for, as he's from a series not yet represented, and is also 1st party. With his current standing, in ultimate where the game's entirely about fan service to the veteran players, and fan demand, it'd likely be a massive upset if he wasn't included at all. Also- to note on your comment of him being a single character from an unrepped franchise, because it's unrepped is why so many of us have concentrated on getting the face of the series, Isaac, into the game. I'm fairly sure if Isaac gets in, several of us will be rooting for more golden sun reps past Isaac, but as things stand at the moment, it's just a pipe dream, so we're all focusing on getting the most likely candidate.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

To this day I'm still surprised Shulk got in.

Sure, his game was released in Japan 2 years before development started, but it didn't sell well. Maybe it was the push of Operation Rainfall and XC fans (not many, but enough for a game like it), or that Nintendo knew they had a gem and took a gamble by giving it a n3DS port and telling Monolith to make XCX, or Sakurai bias because he likes Xenoblade, we don't know for sure; but as Sakurai said "he's not the type of character that joins often".

Against the odds, he got in. And in August KKR proved us that Votes>Relevancy. Nintendo/Camelot having future plans for GS or not, does not matter if we prove how great our support and the franchise is. No matter how much of your hope was lost, our voice cannot stop now, or else our wish will be mute. If Shulk and Xenoblade were saved from the depths of irrelevancy, we can rescue Isaac and GS from its abyss.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hey ya'll! What's trembling this earth currently?

I haven't popped for a while here due the drought of relevant new info on Ultimate - in fact, we're almost going down a month soon... this game's feeling insanely near.

 

[tbuster766]

oh so it's the "sell 678954 bajillion copies" or you're not getting into smash ever that gamefaqs is obsessed with got it. so no golden sun ever, f-zero and earth bound are out next game, same with metroid kirby etc. so only mario pokemon and zelda are allowed cause those are the only 3 that make 678954 bajillion copies. gotcha

Guess no next Bayonetta game going by that logic...ever

 

[Frosty Pops]

I can't even finish Octopath or Valkyria Chronicles 4. I gotta know if Isaac is in Smash. I'm just here for no reason. Why am I here there's not going to be any news at 11pm on a Monday. There's no content no leaks no speculation that hasn't been speculated.

What if they don't announce a direct this week. Omg. That means it'll be next week. Has to. Haaaas to. Where are all the leaks there should be more leaks closer to release date. The game was rated by the ESRB where is my ESRB leak.

Bruh I gotta know. Those lucky K. Rool fans knowing all early. I need info. I have to know. That Sakurai got me. He ****ing boomed me.

He's so good.

I just imagined you saying all of that really fast like you downed 3 energy drinks before posting. Lol

 

[Mehdow]

I was just listening a video in youtube about "100 best songs in N64" and then I heard something very familiar... I was listening to Golden Sun!

Then I opened the tab and realized it was Mario Golf.... I didn't remember that Motoi Sakuraba made the OST, sounds exactly like a track from GS!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'd like to point something out here, The roster was likely decided upon 5 years ago. That would have meant that Golden Sun would have had a release within the past 3 years in accordance to being selected, so not necessarily long enough at that specific point in time to consider the franchise "irrelevant", despite Dark Dawn not doing as well as the other games. On top of this, Isaac is the most wanted newcomer for a new 1st party series, and potentially even for all current Nintendo characters if the polls are anything to go by. Some people try to pass off Golden Sun as niche, or obscure, but in actuality, it's fairly popular. It's certainly not mainstream levels of popular, but nowhere near niche.

Isaac's in a very unique spot compared to most big names that people are hoping for, as he's from a series not yet represented, and is also 1st party. With his current standing, in ultimate where the game's entirely about fan service to the veteran players, and fan demand, it'd likely be a massive upset if he wasn't included at all. Also- to note on your comment of him being a single character from an unrepped franchise, because it's unrepped is why so many of us have concentrated on getting the face of the series, Isaac, into the game. I'm fairly sure if Isaac gets in, several of us will be rooting for more golden sun reps past Isaac, but as things stand at the moment, it's just a pipe dream, so we're all focusing on getting the most likely candidate.

Where in the world do you possibly get a roster decided 5 years ago, before Smash 4 was even released?

At best the roster was decided in late 2015 as the ballot was coming to a close. And that’s certainly a full five years after Dark Dawn had released to a middling reception (Even from fans in several cases, though still well regarded by them). 5 years from a subpar release (Im certain Nintendo wanted better from it) of a series that hadn’t seen a release for 8 years prior and likely (barring some crazy GS game that’s been in development hell) had no future. That’s enough to say Golden Sun was almost definitely not a priority, or even possibly a thought for Nintendo at the time.

The one saving grace is the ballot. Isaac’s chances entirely hinge upon the ballot, where we’ve seen lots of evidence through polls to point towards him doing well. That’s certainly good news and hopefully plenty to get him on Sakurai’s radar as a contender. This brings us to the question: Is that enough? And that’s where we stand today waiting desperately to hear about his inclusion in the game.

Again, Golden Sun was a decently performing franchise upon release, and the legacy has been much greater as we see in this thread and all of his continued support. As a first party character there should be no real barrier to his inclusion. But I suspect Dark Dawn hurt the series a lot to the point where the series was shelved and made a complete non priority, possibly leading to Isaac’s exclusion in Smash 4 (Though we know of nothing about that specific decision). And those stains may be the issue were up against is what I’m saying. Obviously, Golden Sun doesn’t have a rep. But I’m saying that’s one of the issues. It’s not just a character you’re bringing back, it’s an entire franchise and I’ve said multiple times, that’s where my fears lie. That any franchise that’s considered dead by Nintendo not already in Smash might be a bigger obstacle than we think. Again, a fear of mine, not a way in which I’m trying to decrease hype, and from that something I think that’s worth discussing.

I certainly hope the fan support is there, and that the dedication of all fans to loving their character is enough to overcome whatever notions of Golden Sun as a dead IP may exist. But that’s certainly what we’re facing until his reveal or release.

On to another part:
And for Shulk, I feel like you can’t ignore Operations Rainfall which entirely forced the game to exist in North America after there had been no plans to release the game and the runaway success of the IP once it was released even through exclusivity at GameStop. There was a massive fan precedent there that helped a decently popular character in Japan get in to the game. The success of Xenoblade in the states alongside the fact that Monolith Soft and Nintendo were continuing to work on what would be Xenoblade Chronicles X helps Shulk immensely as there seemed to be a future for the franchise (in a game where it was practically all about recency for the newcomers). He was in much better shape than Isaac sadly.

 

[TempestSurge]

I don't think Sakurai will mention any hurdle for Isaac regarding the state of his series or sales or how old he is. He even brings up in Isabelle's interview how some of these characters in Smash come from titles that are from quite a while ago. Makes me think it's things that fans bring up but he doesn't really consider a big deal, like Geno's interview just talks about how popular and requested he is despite being an old character.

I mean sure, we could nitpick and analyze and convince ourselves that it never applies to Isaac's situation and he's always the exception to every character that breaks the rule. If Isaac really does have all these restrictions and criteria to overcome, maybe he's never getting in Smash. But then again I'm still supporting and waiting for a character that apparently should be in, going by the criteria that's keeping Isaac out (though still got a month to get through the rest of the reveals).

Even though there's a part of me that wants Sakurai's interview about Isaac to delve into this whole storyline cause it seems like our journey been combating this one argument. He's probs going to say the same old that he says about the other popular characters that has joined the roster so far, 'We've received a ton of requests for this character so here they are!'

Though the ballot and Isaac being a character want since Brawl has just been the things I mainly hinged Isaac's inclusion on anyways with Ultimate's fan service direction at the least.

 

[Frosty Pops]

All of the characters you use for examples are from franchises that already exist in Smash Bros., which is exactly my point. You're not upending a franchise from the grave, you're just doing a single character. The dead Nintendo franchises are the ones that don't have playable fighters sadly, and Golden Sun falls into that realm. Third parties don't really play by our standard rules as Mega Man and Castlevania exist in Smash as the sort of legacy fighters from the NES era that they're so heavily associated with. The names of those franchises (Even if now dormant) carry a ton of weight. Living franchises certainly have much, much, much more opportunity to reintroduce characters. Also, Ridley is most certainly not dead and continually shows up in Metroid games and references to the franchise.

Even Geno who screams irrelevance belongs to Mario for all practical purposes. Though my ideas of him were actually in a completely unrelated point to the irrelevance discussion I was making. That entire part of my post was hey, we can at least point to Sakurai knowing who he is and taking time and money to license him which would be his primary hurdle other than priorities in development. That's a much more concrete sort of proof than many characters have sort of thing.

Again, my fear is that the franchise element of being dead is an obstacle that could be too far to overcome for even someone as supported as Isaac. The ONLY precedent we have with this is Pit and Kid Icarus, and well, that's objectively Sakurai bias deciding to add an older retro franchise and then personally ushering it to the new era. Can this happen with a franchise that Sakurai isn't so personally keen on (I mean he's never mentioned Golden Sun in any capacity). I personally don't see why not with the amount of fan demand Golden Sun and Isaac seem to have for Smash in general, but Sakurai has always had questionable reasons for not including characters previously.

Also, yeah no, the handheld arena is not a point I'm going to agree on as him having some sort of bias against handheld inclusion. People have already brought up Pokemon and that comprises nine of our characters so far (Possibly ten). Of the seven Fire Emblem characters, five of them come from handheld FE games. Kid Icarus is more associated with handhelds than console at this point (two handheld games, one on NES). Isabelle and Animal Crossing as a whole likely owes everything to the handheld side where it absolutely ballooned. Electroplankton of all things has a stage. There's a lot of handheld selection already going on. You're actually pretty hard pressed to find Nintendo franchises that are handheld exclusive beyond Golden Sun, so I think there's little merit to saying that Golden Sun isn't included because of it's handheld origins.

Finally, and I hate to do this because I'm essentially validating some of the relevancy argument, Golden Sun is not currently relevant. There has not been a single reference to the series for eight years at this point. Relevancy relies on the basis that games reached a large audience and have had recent releases. Golden Sun has comparatively missed the boat release wise with all three of the games in relation to Smash Bros. Dark Dawn was the closest and that game did not do particularly well. If Nintendo does not see a future or an immediate presence of the character, then that is how characters and franchises are deemed irrelevant. You're correct, there isn't an exact metric to this argument, but there's a general flow people assume when using it.

Isaac would be get in to the game in spite of relevancy, not because he was proven to be relevant. That's why I'll be ecstatic if Golden Sun does indeed get playable representation in Smash. King K. Rool cracked the surface of relevancy with the point that fans could override it. Golden Sun is the next step in having fans usher in not only a dead character, but an ENTIRE DEAD FRANCHISE just through continual love and support and shatter the notions of relevancy. Then we can stop hearing about how it plays roles in character choices completely. As it stands, we're so, so close to being able to do that, and that's exactly what I want to happen. I want Isaac himself as much as I want to be able to lay that argument truly to rest.

Also one thing everybody seems to forget, Pit got in because Sakurai liked him, but his series was essential dead. More than 10 years since a game had come out. Also Ice Climbers, they were dead also and they haven't gotten anything since they were released in Smash. I don't think recency/ relevancy means anything when it comes to a characters chances for Smash. It is just an illusion that people have slapped over it as an argument for characters who are not the ones they want. Also Duck Hunt Dog is just as old as those previously mentioned. In relevancy he is up there but recency nowhere close. And yet Sakurai took a character with little in the ways of a basic moveset and now we have DH in Smash.

 

[Black Magician]

Hi, did I ever come forward as an Official Isaac Supporter? If not, could you add me to the list?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Updated support list.

Spoiler: Adepts

1. _Sheik
2. 1/128
3. 9Blades
4. ☆Jisatsu☆
5. *Verrix*
6. ?!?!?!
7. Accursed
8. Adeptmune
9. Agk0001
10. Aguki90
11. airConditioner
12. AirMac1
13. aldelaro5
14. alguidrag
15. Akod
16. Altais
17. Amberloo
18. Amtoj
19. AncientArk
20. andimidna
21. Androobie
22. Aeon Lupin
23. Apollyon
24. Aqua Rock X
25. AquaDork1
26. AquaSol
27. Arcadenik
28. ArkSPiTFirE
29. Arsenal234,
30. Arteen
31. Asian_Charizard
32. Astraltar
33. Aureola
34. Aurora Jenny
35. AustarusIV
36. AwesomeCauliflower68
37. Awesomedude444
38. aztimh
39. Backgammon
40. Baddies are back
41. Balgorxz
42. BandannaWaddleDee
43. Bane84
44. Banjodorf
45. bassem6
46. Bassoonist
47. Billybae10K
48. BillyBat
49. Bingoshi
50. Bkupa666
51. Black Magician
52. Blackwolf666
53. Blaziken
54. Blue7113
55. BluePikmin11
56. BoltDragon
57. BoN~
58. Bowser-Daimao
59. BravadoMan_13
60. BridgesWithTurtles
61. Brother AJ
62. Browny
63. Buddy002
64. Bunny8093
65. BUnit
66. Burruni
67. Calamitas
68. Calane
69. CactusBlah
70. candyissweet
71. Capita
72. Cap'nChreest
73. Captain Toad
74. CardStealer1
75. Cazzone,
76. Chapter Serf
77. CheckmateChuck
78. CheeseBroJoe
79. Cheezey Bites
80. Chromfirmed
81. Chrono.
82. ChronoPenguin
83. clearandsweet
84. ClinkStryphart
85. CliffJumper
86. Clumsyzephyr
87. cocy965
88. Cos.
89. Coaltergeist
90. Confirmation
91. Crap-Zapper
92. CrocoLoco
93. CrossDispatcher
94. cybersai
95. Dalek_Kolt
96. Darkdarkness
97. Darkfur
98. DatoSm
99. Delta64
100. Demonfunds
101. Dendros
102. Desert Croc
103. Destroyer713
104. Dezeray112
105. Dhragen
106. Dib The Crazy Kid
107. Diddy Kong
108. Dihan
109. Dimensionsword64
110. Dionaea_floridensis
111. direktor
112. DivinexRose
113. DJ3DS
114. DJBor
115. D-Man9293
116. DMurr
117. DogManStar
118. DoodleDuck97
119. Doncalot
120. DraginHikari
121. Drakonis
122. DrJayfox
123. Dromader
124. DukeNapoleon
125. DustyPumpkin
126. Dyllybirdy
127. e105beta
128. Eagle
129. EclairSpark
130. EclipseSmash
131. EddyBearr
132. ED Cantu
133. Edlocke
134. egaddmario
135. ElPanandero
136. El Syd
137. EndlessChrom
138. EndlessRain
139. EnhaloTricks
140. EricTheGamerman
141. Essora
142. ETFruitNinja
143. ethanrodgers223
144. Ezequileste
145. Falgor
146. Falkoopa
147. False Sense
148. FamiconDisk
149. Felix_the_Slayer
150. fenyx4
151. ferioku
152. Fire Rider
153. Fire Tactician
154. Fire_Voyager
155. FirstBlade
156. Flamel
157. Flamingbird
158. Flareon
159. Flarzo
160. Flik
161. FlintIke
162. Flynn.Scifo
163. fogbadge.
164. foolssigma
165. FooltheFlames
166. FrankAL
167. FreddyOnDrugs
168. Friesnchip
169. Frosty Pops
170. GalacticPetey
171. Gameguy1996
172. Gazorpazorpfield
173. Geassguy
174. gebi
175. Geno Boost
176. ghastmine
177. Ghirahilda
178. GhostStorm
179. Gioka
180. GladiusVortex
181. GM_3826
182. GoldenBoy01
183. Golden Icarus
184. GoldenSunIsAlive
185. GoodGrief741
186. Gotann
187. GraveEclipse567
188. gspindles
189. Gurein
190. Hakerson
191. heylodom
192. Highway20
193. Holdenon
194. hustler713
195. Huanchi
196. hwrdjacob
197. iam8bit
198. Icana
199. iDazedX_x
200. Inawordyes
201. IntelliHeath1
202. Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur
203. isaac3000
204. Isaac4SmashUltimate
205. Isaac for Smash Pls
206. IsaacOrRiot
207. Isaac: Venus Adept
208. Istry555
209. ItsRainingGravy
210. ItsYio
211. IvanQuote
212. JaidynReiman
213. Jak_spoon
214. JamesDNaux
215. James Tutumbero
216. Jamurai
217. Jandlebars
218. JarBear
219. Jclubsandwich
220. JDogindy
221. JesseMcCloud
222. Johnknight1
223. JohnnySparkxs
224. JoyStar
225. Jupiter Ivan
226. Jurae818
227. Just a random scrub
228. jweb22
229. Kalaam
230. Kalomaze
231. KCCHIEFS27
232. KeniththeGatherer
233. KeybladeSmasher
234. KHJason95
235. Kikaru
236. Kind Dedede
237. KingCloud
238. KingShadow
239. KingTorra
240. KiraYoshikage
241. KirbyDragon
242. Kirbyfan391
243. Kisae
244. Klimax
245. KMDP
246. Knight-Adept
247. KoalaNut
248. Kokirikory
249. KoopaSaki
250. Koori
251. Kremling Man
252. Kumatora
253. KurouKamen
254. Kycse
255. Lady Palutena
256. Lampy
257. LaniusShrike
258. lanky_gunner
259. LasermasterA
260. Leafeon523
261. Ledfarmer
262. LeeYawshee
263. Legendary Spirit Tamer
264. LegendOfDragoon
265. legendofrob1
266. LemmyKoopa
267. lexpic17
268. lightdasher
269. LightheartedBum
270. Lightosia
271. Linq
272. Lisbon Mapping
273. littl-myth
274. Liverpool19
275. LoboRundas
276. Lone (Thirteenth)
277. Lonodel
278. Lord-Zero
279. Lucanic
280. Lucimar
281. Ludjinnado
282. Luigifan18
283. lunarum
284. Lukingordex
285. Lurxy
286. Lynn Eslie
287. M23-X0
288. MacSmitty
289. MagiusNecros
290. MAGMIS
291. MainJPW
292. Malcolm Belmont
293. MaskO'Gears
294. Master Rapier
295. MasterMushroom
296. MatthewVenusAdept
297. Mav485
298. McLapras
299. MeatOfJustice
300. Mega Bidoof
301. Mehdow
302. Mendelsin
303. MetalMario128
304. Metocles
305. Midnight Torch
306. Miifighters4Smash5
307. Minato Arisato
308. Mike Cometa
309. Mikegamer0608
310. Mishudo
311. Monkokaio
312. MonopolyRubix
313. MorbidAltruism
314. Moydow
315. MrGame&Rock
316. MrMacBeth
317. MrToxicVoltage
318. Muirkat
319. Mythzotick
320. mynameisv
321. MysticKnives
322. N1N
323. N3ON
324. Nauzgo
325. Necro Toad
326. Neo Zero
327. NessAtc.
328. Niala
329. Nimbostratus
330. NineS
331. Ninjakid41592
332. Nintandy
333. Nintendokusou
334. NitrusVirus
335. NonSpecificGuy
336. NoOtherPersona
337. NoR4U
338. Nossnitro102
339. Octillus
340. Oddyesy
341. oh.glory
342. OhMyBanana54
343. Olo
344. Onassi2
345. Oniric Spriter
346. OpticalBlast
347. OptimisticStrifer
348. Oracle_Summon
349. Organization XIII
350. osby
351. otarolgam
352. Oz37
353. Pacack
354. Papagenos
355. ParanoidDrone
356. Pcubed007
357. Pennate
358. Phaazoid
359. PhilosophicAnimal
360. pholtos
361. Pizza Robo
362. P.Kat
363. Plain Yogurt
364. Playcube
365. PlayfulMushroom
366. POKEMANSPIKA
367. PokiehlthePoet
368. Powerman293
369. praline
370. proxian
371. psb123
372. PSIguy89
373. PSYNergy
374. PrinceGal3n
375. PurpleStuff5
376. PWN3
377. Pwnapplez
378. Pyzlnar
379. QcSlayer
380. Q-Long
381. Quetzal77
382. R.O.B.
383. Radical Beam
384. Radori
385. Raetah
386. Rafuki21
387. Raykz
388. Raziek
389. Red Dasher
390. Red Ryu
391. RegiGygas117
392. RenH
393. Replica
394. Rethuic
395. Retroen
396. RetroMetalSonic
397. RhymeswithEmpty
398. Roger Smith
399. RosaPeach
400. Royaru
401. Royvolution Ream
402. RumpletrellskiN
403. Ryan
404. Ryuji
405. Ryuutakeshi
406. Sabrewulf238
407. Saer2k
408. Sagittarius
409. Salocin
410. sandfall
411. SanicJan
412. Sari
413. Scatmansworld25
414. Scoliosis Jones
415. scoobymcsnack
416. Seb9k+
417. SebasSancy
418. Secret Sexytime
419. Seleir
420. Seoxys
421. Sephazon
422. ShadowGuy1
423. Shawnullah
424. sheik93
425. shellshocker18
426. Shin F.
427. Shinhed-echi
428. Shiny Porygon
429. Shog
430. Sidboylol
431. Silo777
432. SirCamp
433. Skeleton o' Fun
434. SkullKidKing
435. Skyblade12
436. Skyfox2000
437. sman3975
438. Smash_Handle69
439. SmashBro99
440. smashingDoug
441. smashkirby
442. Smashmar2
443. smash puffle
444. SmashShadow
445. smashtriforce77
446. smileMasky
447. SmilingMad
448. SMX
449. Solbliminal
450. Solfiner
451. someonetookjacob
452. SonicLink125
453. SonicSmasher
454. SoraSaturn
455. Sordim522
456. SorMago
457. SorrowOfAcheron
458. SoulofKhaos
459. Soulsaint
460. SoupCanMafia
461. Sparkus
462. Spatman
463. Spazzy_D
464. Speedwagon
465. spoilerowl
466. Spootondorf
467. Sqid
468. Squirtle/Mario guy
469. SSBFan
470. Staarih
471. StaffofSmashing
472. Strider_Bond00J
473. StrikeBlade
474. SuperBrawler
475. Superfiremario
476. SuperNintendoKid
477. Supersmash77
478. Superyoshiom
479. Swampasaur
480. Sykin
481. Takasmash
482. tamagone
483. TappyBat
484. TBone06
485. tbuster766
486. TCT~Phantom
487. TeamFlareZakk
488. Techno1000
489. TeenGirlSquad
490. TehEpicRyuga
491. TempestSurge
492. Tetiro
493. ThatShadowLink
494. THE 6r
495. The Curious Volnutt
496. The One Who Wrote This
497. Thekewlusername
498. T-Hell
499. TheRealHeroOfWinds
500. TheSeanMan
501. TheSpaceKing
502. The Stoopid Unikorn
503. TheTactician
504. THE TemporaryFool
505. thethirdkoopa
506. TheZoologist
507. ThirdDay
508. ThoughtfulWanderer
509. ThunderOverload
510. TiaSilvia
511. TimeSmash
512. Tinfoil
513. Tiymako
514. ToothiestAura
515. topspin1617
516. Travix Man
517. TreeBranch
518. True Blue Warrior
519. Turmalinium
520. tveye
521. tyrus+
522. UltimateWario
523. Ultinarok
524. Undella2
525. User Name String
526. UtopianPoyzin
527. Vann Accessible
528. Vegito2727
529. Venus of the Desert Bloom
530. Vintage Creep
531. Violenceman
532. walph
533. warelander
534. Warheart_666
535. Wigglytuff ★
536. winterofsilver
537. Wintropy
538. WhiteEaglePL
539. Xelion
540. Xenigma
541. XenoWarriorX
542. XeVioN
543. Xiivi
544. Xithyl_kykorl
545. xLemmy_KoopaX
546. xpnc
547. XTremeGamer1234
548. XxLtxX
549. Yangfly Leone
550. YellowLord
551. Yggdra
552. Yoh
553. Yoshi444
554. YoshiandToad
555. Young Horsetail
556. Your Hero
557. Ypsen
558. Yuki Setsuna
559. Yusa
560. YwhaletailY
561. Zabadoo
562. zabimaru1000
563. zagman505
564. zaiman12345
565. Zalaresh
566. Zandro
567. ZanZero
568. ZarroTsu
569. ZeldaMaster
570. ZelDan
571. ZestyÑ
572. zferolie
573. zmero_
574. Zulyar
575. Zuppo

 

[SonicLink125]

Hi, did I ever come forward as an Official Isaac Supporter? If not, could you add me to the list?

Welcome, fellow Adept! Be Sure you pin True Blue Warrior to be added to the support group.
Edit: He beat me to it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

575 supporters, damn. You think we can make it to 600?

 

[Black Magician]

Updated support list.

Spoiler: Adepts

1. _Sheik
2. 1/128
3. 9Blades
4. ☆Jisatsu☆
5. *Verrix*
6. ?!?!?!
7. Accursed
8. Adeptmune
9. Agk0001
10. Aguki90
11. airConditioner
12. AirMac1
13. aldelaro5
14. alguidrag
15. Akod
16. Altais
17. Amberloo
18. Amtoj
19. AncientArk
20. andimidna
21. Androobie
22. Aeon Lupin
23. Apollyon
24. Aqua Rock X
25. AquaDork1
26. AquaSol
27. Arcadenik
28. ArkSPiTFirE
29. Arsenal234,
30. Arteen
31. Asian_Charizard
32. Astraltar
33. Aureola
34. Aurora Jenny
35. AustarusIV
36. AwesomeCauliflower68
37. Awesomedude444
38. aztimh
39. Backgammon
40. Baddies are back
41. Balgorxz
42. BandannaWaddleDee
43. Bane84
44. Banjodorf
45. bassem6
46. Bassoonist
47. Billybae10K
48. BillyBat
49. Bingoshi
50. Bkupa666
51. Black Magician
52. Blackwolf666
53. Blaziken
54. Blue7113
55. BluePikmin11
56. BoltDragon
57. BoN~
58. Bowser-Daimao
59. BravadoMan_13
60. BridgesWithTurtles
61. Brother AJ
62. Browny
63. Buddy002
64. Bunny8093
65. BUnit
66. Burruni
67. Calamitas
68. Calane
69. CactusBlah
70. candyissweet
71. Capita
72. Cap'nChreest
73. Captain Toad
74. CardStealer1
75. Cazzone,
76. Chapter Serf
77. CheckmateChuck
78. CheeseBroJoe
79. Cheezey Bites
80. Chromfirmed
81. Chrono.
82. ChronoPenguin
83. clearandsweet
84. ClinkStryphart
85. CliffJumper
86. Clumsyzephyr
87. cocy965
88. Cos.
89. Coaltergeist
90. Confirmation
91. Crap-Zapper
92. CrocoLoco
93. CrossDispatcher
94. cybersai
95. Dalek_Kolt
96. Darkdarkness
97. Darkfur
98. DatoSm
99. Delta64
100. Demonfunds
101. Dendros
102. Desert Croc
103. Destroyer713
104. Dezeray112
105. Dhragen
106. Dib The Crazy Kid
107. Diddy Kong
108. Dihan
109. Dimensionsword64
110. Dionaea_floridensis
111. direktor
112. DivinexRose
113. DJ3DS
114. DJBor
115. D-Man9293
116. DMurr
117. DogManStar
118. DoodleDuck97
119. Doncalot
120. DraginHikari
121. Drakonis
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123. Dromader
124. DukeNapoleon
125. DustyPumpkin
126. Dyllybirdy
127. e105beta
128. Eagle
129. EclairSpark
130. EclipseSmash
131. EddyBearr
132. ED Cantu
133. Edlocke
134. egaddmario
135. ElPanandero
136. El Syd
137. EndlessChrom
138. EndlessRain
139. EnhaloTricks
140. EricTheGamerman
141. Essora
142. ETFruitNinja
143. ethanrodgers223
144. Ezequileste
145. Falgor
146. Falkoopa
147. False Sense
148. FamiconDisk
149. Felix_the_Slayer
150. fenyx4
151. ferioku
152. Fire Rider
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154. Fire_Voyager
155. FirstBlade
156. Flamel
157. Flamingbird
158. Flareon
159. Flarzo
160. Flik
161. FlintIke
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163. fogbadge.
164. foolssigma
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166. FrankAL
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171. Gameguy1996
172. Gazorpazorpfield
173. Geassguy
174. gebi
175. Geno Boost
176. ghastmine
177. Ghirahilda
178. GhostStorm
179. Gioka
180. GladiusVortex
181. GM_3826
182. GoldenBoy01
183. Golden Icarus
184. GoldenSunIsAlive
185. GoodGrief741
186. Gotann
187. GraveEclipse567
188. gspindles
189. Gurein
190. Hakerson
191. heylodom
192. Highway20
193. Holdenon
194. hustler713
195. Huanchi
196. hwrdjacob
197. iam8bit
198. Icana
199. iDazedX_x
200. Inawordyes
201. IntelliHeath1
202. Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur
203. isaac3000
204. Isaac4SmashUltimate
205. Isaac for Smash Pls
206. IsaacOrRiot
207. Isaac: Venus Adept
208. Istry555
209. ItsRainingGravy
210. ItsYio
211. IvanQuote
212. JaidynReiman
213. Jak_spoon
214. JamesDNaux
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216. Jamurai
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219. Jclubsandwich
220. JDogindy
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222. Johnknight1
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227. Just a random scrub
228. jweb22
229. Kalaam
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234. KHJason95
235. Kikaru
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256. Lampy
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259. LasermasterA
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263. Legendary Spirit Tamer
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266. LemmyKoopa
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268. lightdasher
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270. Lightosia
271. Linq
272. Lisbon Mapping
273. littl-myth
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275. LoboRundas
276. Lone (Thirteenth)
277. Lonodel
278. Lord-Zero
279. Lucanic
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281. Ludjinnado
282. Luigifan18
283. lunarum
284. Lukingordex
285. Lurxy
286. Lynn Eslie
287. M23-X0
288. MacSmitty
289. MagiusNecros
290. MAGMIS
291. MainJPW
292. Malcolm Belmont
293. MaskO'Gears
294. Master Rapier
295. MasterMushroom
296. MatthewVenusAdept
297. Mav485
298. McLapras
299. MeatOfJustice
300. Mega Bidoof
301. Mehdow
302. Mendelsin
303. MetalMario128
304. Metocles
305. Midnight Torch
306. Miifighters4Smash5
307. Minato Arisato
308. Mike Cometa
309. Mikegamer0608
310. Mishudo
311. Monkokaio
312. MonopolyRubix
313. MorbidAltruism
314. Moydow
315. MrGame&Rock
316. MrMacBeth
317. MrToxicVoltage
318. Muirkat
319. Mythzotick
320. mynameisv
321. MysticKnives
322. N1N
323. N3ON
324. Nauzgo
325. Necro Toad
326. Neo Zero
327. NessAtc.
328. Niala
329. Nimbostratus
330. NineS
331. Ninjakid41592
332. Nintandy
333. Nintendokusou
334. NitrusVirus
335. NonSpecificGuy
336. NoOtherPersona
337. NoR4U
338. Nossnitro102
339. Octillus
340. Oddyesy
341. oh.glory
342. OhMyBanana54
343. Olo
344. Onassi2
345. Oniric Spriter
346. OpticalBlast
347. OptimisticStrifer
348. Oracle_Summon
349. Organization XIII
350. osby
351. otarolgam
352. Oz37
353. Pacack
354. Papagenos
355. ParanoidDrone
356. Pcubed007
357. Pennate
358. Phaazoid
359. PhilosophicAnimal
360. pholtos
361. Pizza Robo
362. P.Kat
363. Plain Yogurt
364. Playcube
365. PlayfulMushroom
366. POKEMANSPIKA
367. PokiehlthePoet
368. Powerman293
369. praline
370. proxian
371. psb123
372. PSIguy89
373. PSYNergy
374. PrinceGal3n
375. PurpleStuff5
376. PWN3
377. Pwnapplez
378. Pyzlnar
379. QcSlayer
380. Q-Long
381. Quetzal77
382. R.O.B.
383. Radical Beam
384. Radori
385. Raetah
386. Rafuki21
387. Raykz
388. Raziek
389. Red Dasher
390. Red Ryu
391. RegiGygas117
392. RenH
393. Replica
394. Rethuic
395. Retroen
396. RetroMetalSonic
397. RhymeswithEmpty
398. Roger Smith
399. RosaPeach
400. Royaru
401. Royvolution Ream
402. RumpletrellskiN
403. Ryan
404. Ryuji
405. Ryuutakeshi
406. Sabrewulf238
407. Saer2k
408. Sagittarius
409. Salocin
410. sandfall
411. SanicJan
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413. Scatmansworld25
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415. scoobymcsnack
416. Seb9k+
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430. Sidboylol
431. Silo777
432. SirCamp
433. Skeleton o' Fun
434. SkullKidKing
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436. Skyfox2000
437. sman3975
438. Smash_Handle69
439. SmashBro99
440. smashingDoug
441. smashkirby
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443. smash puffle
444. SmashShadow
445. smashtriforce77
446. smileMasky
447. SmilingMad
448. SMX
449. Solbliminal
450. Solfiner
451. someonetookjacob
452. SonicLink125
453. SonicSmasher
454. SoraSaturn
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456. SorMago
457. SorrowOfAcheron
458. SoulofKhaos
459. Soulsaint
460. SoupCanMafia
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464. Speedwagon
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473. StrikeBlade
474. SuperBrawler
475. Superfiremario
476. SuperNintendoKid
477. Supersmash77
478. Superyoshiom
479. Swampasaur
480. Sykin
481. Takasmash
482. tamagone
483. TappyBat
484. TBone06
485. tbuster766
486. TCT~Phantom
487. TeamFlareZakk
488. Techno1000
489. TeenGirlSquad
490. TehEpicRyuga
491. TempestSurge
492. Tetiro
493. ThatShadowLink
494. THE 6r
495. The Curious Volnutt
496. The One Who Wrote This
497. Thekewlusername
498. T-Hell
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502. The Stoopid Unikorn
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505. thethirdkoopa
506. TheZoologist
507. ThirdDay
508. ThoughtfulWanderer
509. ThunderOverload
510. TiaSilvia
511. TimeSmash
512. Tinfoil
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514. ToothiestAura
515. topspin1617
516. Travix Man
517. TreeBranch
518. True Blue Warrior
519. Turmalinium
520. tveye
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522. UltimateWario
523. Ultinarok
524. Undella2
525. User Name String
526. UtopianPoyzin
527. Vann Accessible
528. Vegito2727
529. Venus of the Desert Bloom
530. Vintage Creep
531. Violenceman
532. walph
533. warelander
534. Warheart_666
535. Wigglytuff ★
536. winterofsilver
537. Wintropy
538. WhiteEaglePL
539. Xelion
540. Xenigma
541. XenoWarriorX
542. XeVioN
543. Xiivi
544. Xithyl_kykorl
545. xLemmy_KoopaX
546. xpnc
547. XTremeGamer1234
548. XxLtxX
549. Yangfly Leone
550. YellowLord
551. Yggdra
552. Yoh
553. Yoshi444
554. YoshiandToad
555. Young Horsetail
556. Your Hero
557. Ypsen
558. Yuki Setsuna
559. Yusa
560. YwhaletailY
561. Zabadoo
562. zabimaru1000
563. zagman505
564. zaiman12345
565. Zalaresh
566. Zandro
567. ZanZero
568. ZarroTsu
569. ZeldaMaster
570. ZelDan
571. ZestyÑ
572. zferolie
573. zmero_
574. Zulyar
575. Zuppo

Welcome, fellow Adept! Be Sure you pin True Blue Warrior to be added to the support group.
Edit: He beat me to it.

Thanks :D Honestly he rarely comes back into my party in LA (Felix 4 lyf), but GS is just, like, so good, you know?

On topic, I reckon our boy has a decent shot. He's by no means *certain*, and I'd rate his chances lower than e.g. Geno, but I'd like to think Sakurai pays attention to the fans, and over a decade of consistent support isn't nothing.

 

[TappyBat]

Thanks :D Honestly he rarely comes back into my party in LA (Felix 4 lyf), but GS is just, like, so good, you know?

On topic, I reckon our boy has a decent shot. He's by no means *certain*, and I'd rate his chances lower than e.g. Geno, but I'd like to think Sakurai pays attention to the fans, and over a decade of consistent support isn't nothing.

lets just hope he doesn't get trophie'd again. much like everyone else.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Also one thing everybody seems to forget, Pit got in because Sakurai liked him, but his series was essential dead. More than 10 years since a game had come out. Also Ice Climbers, they were dead also and they haven't gotten anything since they were released in Smash. I don't think recency/ relevancy means anything when it comes to a characters chances for Smash. It is just an illusion that people have slapped over it as an argument for characters who are not the ones they want. Also Duck Hunt Dog is just as old as those previously mentioned. In relevancy he is up there but recency nowhere close. And yet Sakurai took a character with little in the ways of a basic moveset and now we have DH in Smash.

Yep and Sakurai even stated before that Pit's inclusion was due to the popularity he had in the US and Japan. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.gamezone.com/originals/sakurai-responds-to-ssb-brawl-poll/amp/ Isaac is a big request in both the US and Europe and has a small fanbase in Japan. Sakurai never mentioned Pit being an NES or retro rep like he did for the Ice Climbers which means he was in the same boat that Isaac is in now. Also to note Pit's inclusion was done before there was even plans for a revival as Uprising was made into a Kid Icarus themed game later in development. Even the cancelled attempt at a Kid Icarus revival in the Wii era was definitely unknown to Sakurai when as the redesign he did greatly differs to the cancelled game and that project began development in 2007 while the Brawl character selection was done in 2005

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Also one thing everybody seems to forget, Pit got in because Sakurai liked him, but his series was essential dead. More than 10 years since a game had come out. Also Ice Climbers, they were dead also and they haven't gotten anything since they were released in Smash. I don't think recency/ relevancy means anything when it comes to a characters chances for Smash. It is just an illusion that people have slapped over it as an argument for characters who are not the ones they want. Also Duck Hunt Dog is just as old as those previously mentioned. In relevancy he is up there but recency nowhere close. And yet Sakurai took a character with little in the ways of a basic moveset and now we have DH in Smash.

I’ve addressed Kid Icarus as the one exception of a dead franchise so far, and that’s again, entirely a Sakurai bias moment of I like this and want to bring it back. Ice Climbers and ROB are in a very similar situation of just being completely ignored until he brought them back. The Duck Hunt Dog is very different though. As a character in Smash. But for years I’ve talked to people who know of Duck Hunt and specifically remember the dog that used to laugh at them. The NES Zapper has a huge classic legacy to pull from. The common theme of all of these being that Sakurai liked them and wanted to include them as fighters. My point continues to be that I think it’s safe to say Isaac does not benefit from that at this point, otherwise he wouldn’t have been so easily tossed aside for Smash 4.

Again, Isaac’s chances are entirely dependent on fan support of the franchise and him. He doesn’t have any sense of relevancy on his side (and you cannot possibly look at the Smash 4 newcomers and tell me relevancy doesn’t play at least some major role in Smash decision making) nor does he have the grace of Sakurai like Pit did with Kid Icarus.

He’s a fan choice through and through, and would be the nail in the coffin so I can say hey, we can definitely make things happen as a community in all possibly ways just through love and support. That’s a positive outcome that I definitely want to see, and it helps speculation for the future as long as they are willing to listen to fans even a little character request wise. I hope he made it into Sakurai’s eyes, and that outpouring of love was enough. I really do.

 

[egaddmario]

Isaac: Venus Adept shouldn't you change your picture to have Isaac be Number 69?

 

[Q-Long]

Yep and Sakurai even stated before that Pit's inclusion was due to the popularity he had in the US and Japan. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.gamezone.com/originals/sakurai-responds-to-ssb-brawl-poll/amp/ Isaac is a big request in both the US and Europe and has a small fanbase in Japan. Sakurai never mentioned Pit being an NES or retro rep like he did for the Ice Climbers which means he was in the same boat that Isaac is in now. Also to note Pit's inclusion was done before there was even plans for a revival as Uprising was made into a Kid Icarus themed game later in development. Even the cancelled attempt at a Kid Icarus revival in the Wii era was definitely unknown to Sakurai when as the redesign he did greatly differs to the cancelled game and that project began development in 2007 while the Brawl character selection was done in 2005

lol I'm glad they did not go with that Bomberman Act Zero tier design

Isaac: Venus Adept shouldn't you change your picture to have Isaac be Number 69?

hehe