Gerudo Follow-up Tactics Vs Marth, Lucario, etc..

[Z1GMA]

What do you guys think is the best way to proceed after catching those
"No Garanteed Follow-up Opponents" with a grounded Gerudo?

Sure, you should always be mixing your stuff up, but there are better options as well as worse options.

In other words... How do we increase our odds in landing additional damage upon our foe?

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+ Cake goes to whoever comes up with a fitting name for those type of chars.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you can shield the getup attack on reaction, that will solve a lot of problems. Most conservative players don't roll towards you initially.

 

[TP]

+ Cake goes to whoever comes up with a fitting name for those type of chars.

****ing ***holes seems to fit.

Always see if they DI the choke. Most players will roll in the direction they DI, which gives you enough time to set up your attack.

If you are on a downward slope, Dtilt may become guaranteed. Worth considering.

In general, reflexes are the key. The more you practice against these characters, the more ready you can be every time you pull off a choke. That's really all there is to it.

 

[Big O]

I'd say Lucario is the hardest character to tech chase. His rolls are just too good to abuse with anything significant (AC Dair or Fsmash).

For Marth and Falco you can punish away rolls with SH Fair but the timing is pretty strict for Falco.

Wario and squirtle have the option to DI behind you to escape Dtilt and friends but if you buffer your stuff backwards it will hit them when they DI behind you.

I personally like tech chasing with SH followups on the people with no guaranteed followups. It seems to help since it beats their get up attacks and still leaves you in a position to punish anything else they might do. I have trouble telling certain get up attacks from the neutral get up so it helps bypass that weakness.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Always see if they DI the choke. Most players will roll in the direction they DI, which gives you enough time to set up your attack.

Also, watch the DI on the bounce, since they're more likely to go that direction. Alternatively, if you're playing irl, you could just look over o.O

Even though this is how Guaranteed is spelled, I think that Nogars(No Guarantee) seems fitting.

 

[Z1GMA]

****ing ***holes seems to fit.

Fits Marth, at least (Litterally.)

Always see if they DI the choke. Most players will roll in the direction they DI, which gives you enough time to set up your attack.

I can do that Vs Lucario, since he's floaty.
But it's kinda hard Vs Falco; at least for me.

If you are on a downward slope, Dtilt may become guaranteed. Worth considering.

Yeah, I always go for a garanteed Dtilt on those chars when in a downward slope.
And the funny thing is, Jab works great if you drop 'em in a upward slope : )

What's hard is Gerudoing those chars on "flat" stages like FD.

if you're playing irl, you could just look over o.O

Srsly... Peeking is too good.
And Ganon's getting the most out of it in the entire game, lulz.

 

[Dre89]

Hey just a random idea to throw out there, you could perhaps always go to the one side. Most opponents will like to mixup their escape, so are likely to do different things, so perhaps if you always commit to one side, perhaps they may eventually go to that side.

The other thing is too is that if they've caught on, you possibly may have an ace up your sleeve for later on the match. If they've caught on, when they're at a Ko percent yo ucould finally go the opposite and get a free KO move on them.

I know it's probably a really stupid idea, but I just wanted to get your opinions on it.

 

[@HomE]

@ Dre

Well you should always be doing that to some degree, I try to remember what the person has done after every Gerudo (kinda hard to keep it straight but not impossible) and see if i notice any patterns. Some people NEVER roll towards the edge of the stage, that leads to a free F-smash if you know they will roll behind you.

For my first 2 - 3 Gerudo of a match/set I like to just shield and watch to see what they do, some people just mash the A button(idiots), which will lead to a Walk away -> Gerudo over and over again until they learn.

I could write alot about non-guaranteed Gerudo follow-ups, in fact i feel like we should make a thread listing ALL the possible NON-guaranteed follow-ups(there are ALOT), we could also list the general effectiveness and difficulty of each follow-up...

Hmmm... just thinking about that chart is making my pants tight(er)....

Anyone else think that this is feasible?

Spoiler

Do it!

 

[Superspright]

Yes, and it should be done. Ganon is a character that requires prediction. The NON-guaranteed followups are NECESSARY for kills. Giving our opponent a 1 in 4 chance [perhaps less with prediction] to survive is better than just choke to palm and going for a gimp. My favorite kill is simply gerudoing and letting their getup attack hit me, or act like I am too clumsy to parry/counter attack it. Then randomly double hop dair, or fair them into hell, or even sweetspot the bair if they are stale.

I do feel like utilt isn't used enough though. After seeing the windhitboxes and the hitbox it makes--it can be great if you conditioned your opponent properly. There have been plenty of times a link has daird only to watch me SHAD to utilt.

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But personally I feel like as Ganon's we should always pressure our opponent to MOVE once we gerudo them. Most people I have played liked to do that wait and react crap. I just choke to ftilt or dtilt most of the time until they stop doing that, and then I can start predicting them more accurately. Sometimes though they'll go back to that, and it messes me up. xD

 

[@HomE]

Yes, and it should be done. Ganon is a character that requires prediction. The NON-guaranteed followups are NECESSARY for kills. Giving our opponent a 1 in 4 chance [perhaps less with prediction] to survive is better than just choke to palm and going for a gimp. My favorite kill is simply gerudoing and letting their getup attack hit me, or act like I am too clumsy to parry/counter attack it. Then randomly double hop dair, or fair them into hell, or even sweetspot the bair if they are stale.

I do feel like utilt isn't used enough though. After seeing the windhitboxes and the hitbox it makes--it can be great if you conditioned your opponent properly. There have been plenty of times a link has daird only to watch me SHAD to utilt.

--

But personally I feel like as Ganon's we should always pressure our opponent to MOVE once we gerudo them. Most people I have played liked to do that wait and react crap. I just choke to ftilt or dtilt most of the time until they stop doing that, and then I can start predicting them more accurately. Sometimes though they'll go back to that, and it messes me up. xD

If they get in the habit of just laying there thinking that they can avoid your follow-ups they are 100% wrong, laying there is a AWFUL idea.

F-smash tilted down or a DA should be used to punish fools who just lay there, its all about manipulation.

 

[Superspright]

That's a great idea actually. I never really thought of doing the fsmash though because I would expect them to react.

If I buffered the dash attack it would work perfectly though.

I really feel though we should get a handle on the FoG with aerials [there was a vid around]. Being able to go very high and follow up after people may seem useless at first, but we can now bait...in the air!!

 

[@HomE]

F-smash works wonders on fools who lay there, if you just buffer the tilted F-smash they have a very small window to get up in time. If you hit them once with that, i'll guarantee that they dont be just laying there anymore..

 

[fonzi21]

Wiz kick is useful for me against people who roll away from Ganon. It's a prediction move, but if you see them DI'ing away it hits. Works well on the people with far rolls. Snake for example. Which if in correct spots can lead to the auto cancel off the ledge into fun.

 

[TP]

Wiz kick is useful for me against people who roll away from Ganon. It's a prediction move, but if you see them DI'ing away it hits. Works well on the people with far rolls. Snake for example. Which if in correct spots can lead to the auto cancel off the ledge into fun.

Oh yeah, I forgot about WKC. Every time you are in a position to WKC, go for it and hope it works, the reward is HUGE for what is normally the hardest option to punish. Keep in mind that you plan on hitting them during this, so you have to be closer to the ledge than the normal WKC range. You know what I mean.

 

[@HomE]

Wiz kick is useful for me against people who roll away from Ganon. It's a prediction move, but if you see them DI'ing away it hits. Works well on the people with far rolls. Snake for example. Which if in correct spots can lead to the auto cancel off the ledge into fun.

I use the Wizkick for all predicted rolls away, another fun fact is that the Wizkick will clink with alot of GUAs. This means that if they GUA and you Wizkick into them it will cancel both animations letting you use any attack right away. I like to F-smash just because people almost never expect it.

ps. i was taught all of this by Breezy

 

[Superspright]

WKC to Dair is great if they DI downward--like if you catch them going for dtilt pokes. It puts them in a checkmate position. You're hovering above them--and can dair immediately for the kill.

But even if they roll away it is pretty good--you just have to FH dair to catch them, but it can be airdodged I believe. We really need to start using that dash attack on the edge thing--where you push them off with a dash attack and dair them [inescapable I believe because with the tumble and how the dash attack cancels you gain a slight frame advantage.]. I need to learn how to do that. xD Does anyone recall?

Because, if people roll away...

Imagine this scenario:

You just landed a choke, the opponent rolls away into the edge, you walk up to them. If they shield at any point, iDA. Just react to them as per usual--but shielding gets MURDERED.

Most people will instinctively shield against a Ganon who is breathing on them maybe for even a second--but it would be a great move to have, because then it forces them to perhaps make more mistakes--or panic on the edge.

We need to be able to take advantage of every single situational circumstance. Knowing how to land ridiculously early kills is important. Ganon has to intimidate or he loses. Ganon needs to get into his opponent's head first and foremost. Having an impeccable knowledge of what to do in every strange or unusual situation invites us to play the most seemingly haphazardly--and possibly psychotic way imaginable by just being downright unpredictable to them, but reliably a killer because there is nothing you can do once we get in your head. We will win.

That was an epic rant. I am done for now.

 

[PhantomX]

Here's my process against these kinds of characters. First time I land a choke, I'll attempt a dtilt, which, if they don't already, will make the opponent commit to something ASAP next time around. After that, I'll assume they're going to try a getup attack, so I space for that, and get ready to wizkick should they do that or roll away. Eventually the objective is to get them to roll behind me after choke, so I can land that charged fsmash.

I also love choking them near edges, b/c most people will freak and roll away from the edge.

 

[Superspright]

I always catch people when they do that, but after that they usually do a getup attack--most people are afraid to do the same input twice. So after that I usually try my double hop fair, or I walk away and go for another choke--or even the fsmash.

Today I warlock punched a guy after I choked him. He just spazzed out so hard that he just barely missed me and ended up getting the punch.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I put up my shield and what ever they try to do I follow them with a shield jump aerial Gerudo, and it works pretty well as you can do the same thing after.