Georgia - Totally Official Tournament Legal Stage Discussion Thingy. (BARLW)

[Daysoo]

Georgia BARLW Stage Discussion

Hokay. So, there's a new SBR stage list.
We need to determine where the disputed stages belong.
Post your opinion on where the stages listed in the bold sections belong.
The stages listed in the starter and banned lists are basically set in stone at this point, though.
So without further ado...


Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Norfair

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware


-----


So that's the new list.
I moved Jungle Japes, Pictochat, Pirate Ship, and Pokémon Stadium 2 into the debate area for CP/BAN, as they were previously banned in Georgia.
Now you can post where you feel the stages should go.
As an example, here are my thoughts on the stages:


Starter
Lylat Cruise - It tilts, but it's otherwise fine.

Counter
Brinstar - Certainly not neutral, but not bad enough to be banned.
Castle Siege - Walk offs, changeover oddities, and shallow sides
Delfino - Certainly not neutral, but not bad enough to be banned.
Frigate Orpheon - I hate it, but I think it's fine in counter picks.
Green Greens - It's tiny but otherwise fine.
Halberd - Sharks live here, lower than average ceiling.
Pokémon Stadium 1 - Has a wall and a windmill.
Port Town Aero Dive - Cars are deadly, but the stage is otherwise tolerable.
Rainbow Cruise - Certainly not neutral, but just barely not bad enough to be banned.

Banned
Distant Planet - Riiiiiiight.
Jungle Japes - Claptrap, water eats recoveries, etc.
Luigi's Mansion - Plaaaaaaaank.
Norfair - It has like a million ledges. Planktastic.
Pictochat - It's like a watered down wario ware. =|
Pirate Ship - Bombs suck ***. So does free falling.
Pokémon Stadium 2 - Everything. Just... Everything.
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - It's freakin' pipes, man.


-----


That said, tell me what you think, Georgia.
Oh, and I guess Reflex can post here, too.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Pictochat for Counterpick. The entire bottom left half of the stage is completely free of immediate interference, and the hazards allow people to find creative ways to hurt the opponent. Plus, it's so **** fun~

Stadium 2 is weird, but outside of the Flying portion, there's no really good reason to ban it, and even that isn't a big deal. I can support it as a Counterpick, especially since no one's going to want to pick it anyway.

Pirate Ship is weird, but I don't really mind it that much as an outlandish Counterpick. You can avoid the bombs, and the water does benefit a lot of characters nicely.

I'm okay with Lylat as a Starter.

Distant Planet is dumb. Ban it.

Norfair, Luigi's Mansion, and Jungle Japes make for camp central. Ban them.

Green Greens as a Counterpick makes me quite happy. I'm all for that.

I personally like Port Town Aero Dive. I like the idea of a Counterpick, since few will pick it, and you can avoid the cars if you know how they work.

I don't know how I feel about Yoshi's Island (Pipes). Apparently, the walk-off on the right is nigh-impossible to work with for most chaingrabs. Sounds dumb on paper, but it might be okay for Counterpick; more testing must be done.

 

[BBQ°]

I think GA's current stages belong in the right place except for-

I think Lylat Cruise should be moved to Starter as well. It has some gay ledges but we should be over that by now. Tilting ledges... this has as much affect on the match as tripping. It's not much of a big deal, in my opinion.

Green Greens.... I think we should give this a test run for CP. If too much gayness goes on because of it then it should go back to banned.

All the other stages that are currently in the banned list for GA's stages should remain there. They need to be banned because if they were CP'd then it would give too much of an advantage for their character.

 

[Purple]

**** this ****. Final Destination. only.

Oh, and ban everyone except fox.

 

[GA Peach]

Banned List : Barlw, 64
Legal : Things that are not Barlw or 64.


i think i got this topic on lock, son.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

For future reference, Green Greens was arguably my favorite stage in Melee.

 

[bigman40]

I'll post my thoughts about the stages later when I'm done with classes. I'm going to state though that I'm going to argue for Pipes and Pictochat. Also, would it be decent if we had another list for Dubs? to me, some of the stages that are banned for Singles might benefit more for Dubs.

 

[Rayku]

Basically whatever Reflex said, I agree with. The only thing I don't agree with is Luigi's Mansion, but that's because I have Lucario bias.

 

[Purple]

Well, when playing luigi's mansion. Everyone knows what happens on that stage. switch characters, if you don't, it's your fault for playing incorrectly. That's pretty much the whole point of a counterpick. To counter your ways of doing something or playing a character in general.

 

[bigman40]

Pipes stops D3 from CGing a few characters. The most important one is Luigi not getting infinited on the slopes, or getting CGed on the slopes at all. While most of the other cast that's CGable, you mainly have to camp on the left side of him (you can even sit on the right side of the stage, and still fight him as long as you're on the left of him). Falco's CG doesn't kill here, and some worry moments that Yoshi could CG opponents to death doesn't work (I tried already). Diddy can't naner you up the hill to death either. The only real worry character here is D3, and camping the left side of him will eliminate that factor.

Green Greens.... I think we should give this a test run for CP. If too much gayness goes on because of it then it should go back to banned.

All the other stages that are currently in the banned list for GA's stages should remain there. They need to be banned because if they were CP'd then it would give too much of an advantage for their character.

Green Greens gives D3 complete control here, where if the blocks are high enough, he can infinite every character (cause his Dthrow doesn't make the blocks go away at all). This would resort to camping only the edges and only the two platforms on top.

As for the other stages, some are CP worthy. After all, the CP is to give you a small advantage so that your character can counter (or go even) against another character(s).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I rather like Luigi's Mansion myself as a stage, but I've seen too many matches go twice as long because nobody wants to approach.

 

[Umby]

Distant Planet - This stage is ********. Bouncing platform in the middle, ******** incline on the left side of the stage. If you're caught on said incline during the rain, you've probably turned into meteor bait. Ban.

Green Greens - I'm not so sure about this one, but I'm leaning close to CP. The close blast line makes it easier for those with killing issues (Sonic, Peach, Toon Link(?)) to take off a stock, and I believe Marth does exceptionally well there too, but it also makes it easier for D3 and MK to camp the side of the stage.

Jungle Japes - I thought this stage was bad when I played vs Falco and Snake here. Then I fought a Jigglypuff. Ban.

Luigi's Mansion - Some people argue that you can just break most of the house, but I find two things wrong with that. 1)This means you are starting out with your moves decayed. 2) If the opponent is trying to be gay in picking this stage, there's nothing preventing him/her from destroying the rest of the house so that it comes back up. Ban it.

Pictochat - The only issues I really have with the stage are the whale, the sailboat and the stack of blocks, which prevents cross-stage movement, but otherwise, I'm cool with this being a counterpick. The stage hazards don't have rediculous KO potential like the cars on Port Town, and it's not extremely difficult to avoid them.

Pirate Ship - Free falling sucks, even if it is temporary. Bombs suck, even if you can avoid them. I also show bias towards the catapult, as it constantly limits Sonics ground movement. Another issue I have with it is specifically with Game & Watch. I understand that counterpicks are meant so that your characters gains a certain advantage from the map characteristics, but camping the water with Up B -> Dair is rediculously ******** IMO. Ban.

Pokemon Stadium 2 - Free fall and ice. If it weren't for those, I wouldn't think this stage was half bad. The treadmills are annoying, but I think that part of the stage change would be what compliments one's choice in a counterpick (lol get *****, Snake). I'm undecided on this.

Port Town Aero Dive - I shouldn't complain since I play Sonic, but the cars kill way too early. You can stand on the side of the track and all, but it's impossible to think you'll be in position to do so 100% of the time. I would love this stage as a CP if it weren't for that fact alone.

Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - Probably CP worthy. I haven't played there much.

 

[Rayku]

Could we possibly make some stages counterpick for doubles only? Kind of like how Hanenbow is (I still don't even know why that's CP for teams)

 

[BBQ°]

I think GA should be boring and avoid fun stages.

 

[VietGeek]

I think GA should be boring and avoid fun stages.

This please.

Counterpick

Green Greens - I really think we should try Green Greens again. There's a large possibility for camping here, but the low ceilings make it seem like it could even out. COULD

BANNED

Picto Chat - I heard from someone that Anther (yes the Pikachu guy) lost a stock from recovering with Up+B, nearly about to sweetspot the ledge when Pictochar transforms to the part where it extends the stage slightly with the two lines by the stage's ends, which also momentarily removes any ledges.

I'm sorry but that with the other factors doesn't make this stage seem very...fair to me. I mean I know CPs give some characters more of an advantage than others, but it seems Picto Chat is really just one of those that just like to disrupt the flow of the match and that's it. <_<

Like Desu said, it's a watered down Wario Ware. No thanks.

Luigi's Mansion - It's a "cave of life" perfect for Meta Knight to RUN IN CIRCLES in. Plus high ceiling. Okay that seems perfectly fine. <_<

Pokémon Stadium 2 - Why does anyone consider this? The transformations do nothing but promote camping, all of them distort the match further and overall it adds nothing to combat, the transformations just get in the way for both players and doesn't benefit anyone except through flukes.

Distant Planet - How about we JUST DON'T?

Jungle Japes - Because we totally like to promote camping? Left side of the stage is so dumb? Is there anything right with this stage?

Norfair - Come on, it says NO FAIR. Random background lava spews can COMBO INTO EACH OTHER to kill you. Like really? WTF. Also all those ledges screams PLANKING. Some day a Pikachu main will come and **** us by running the timer out on this stage. Also Snake Dthrow leads to basically an infinite techchase by any competent Snake player on the top 4 platforms.

No idea?

Pirate Ship - I'm on the fence for this one. The bombs are at a deceptive angle and the low-gravity stuff isn't exactly what I constitute as CP-worthy, especially the bombs since they kill better than most characters lol. Low gravity gives it a true CP-vibe though, although I still think it's borderline banned. The low-gravity gives advantage to characters like MK with multiple jumps and good aerials, while screwing with characters like Marth, Snake, ROB, etc. who are weak when getting attacked in the air. This just makes it twice as worst for characters like them, even if it's temporary.

Port Town Aero Drive- I'm on the fence on this one too; cars kill way too early and the sides of the track are kinda lol in damage + KB too IIRC.

Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - I should try this stage out more. I really don't know.

It's sad that so many stages in this game are so god **** dumb.

 

[Player-1]

Rainbow Cruise should be the only legal stage

 

[VietGeek]

Rainbow Cruise should be the only legal stage

Melee should be the only legal game.

 

[BBQ°]

Port Town Aero Dive.....

Why would anyone want to CP this stage in the first place? I don't see it giving an advantage to a single character, although it is one of those wacky stages that many players are unfamiliar with so that could be your advantage right there. It's like Pokefloats in Melee except there aren't Pokemon flying around that have a very high chance of killing you. Honestly, this is just one of those stages that people hate and don't want to have to worry about it be CP'd against them.

 

[BigLøu]

every stage that is in counter/banned should moved to banned.


Norfair- if any1 takes me there i wont hesitate to pick mk and plank to show how dumb that level is.
Green greens- You die sooo early off the top and off the side. Too many stage hazards.
Pipes-cant ddd cg u off the side? <_<
Pirate ship-just no... i watched tourney sets at gigs that had the 50 percent damage bombs decide outcome of matches.
Pictochat-27ish types of changes on the level, spikes, bombs, missiles. Too much randomness for a toureny stage.
ps2-debatable but im leaning more towards a no solely because of the gravity feature and low ice traction.
Japes-Falco ***** this stage, but not just that, too many lethal hazards,( fast moving current, clap trap that appears every 9 seconds and instantly kills you if u touch it).
Distant planet- hell no, wack *** stage with a big *** monster thing that eats you, as well as a waterfall that appears. Not to mention ddd can cg off the level.
Port Town- No...never... those cars will kill you earlier then luigis up b.and sometimes its **** near impossible to avoid them.




Luigi's mansion-no....camping breaks that level, not to mention how leet metaknight is on that level, as well as a few other chacrters.

 

[Saltix]

I'll give input later;
busy right now?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Lounis, if I'm not mistaken, because of the way the ground positions you after a D-Throw from Dedede, it stops it on some characters, like Luigi.

Also, for some of you, it's PORT TOWN AERO DIVE. It makes me so angry seeing everyone and their grandmother misspell it. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't such a commonly misunderstood mistake.

(Can't help it; I'm a bit of a spelling/grammar nazi.)

 

[BigLøu]

Lounis, if I'm not mistaken, because of the way the ground positions you after a D-Throw from Dedede, it stops it on some characters, like Luigi.

Also, for some of you, it's PORT TOWN AERO DIVE. It makes me so angry seeing everyone and their grandmother misspell it. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't such a commonly misunderstood mistake.

(Can't help it; I'm a bit of a spelling/grammar nazi.)

Yes but that still leaves the others, and the middle part of the stage can also prove to be harradous.

 

[ZOM~B]

Starter/Counter

Castle Siege - Starter
Halberd - Starter
Lylat Cruise - Starter
Pokémon Stadium 1 - Counter (dumb ledges)

USE STRIKING, a lot of the neutrals give advantages. For instance ROB vs anyone but Falco on Final D. I think having a lot of stages to sort through will make for fun tournament sets on lots of different levels.

Distant Planet - I don't see why this stage SHOULDN'T be counterpick. Basic projectiles for all characters and slight walk off? The monster shouldn't do anything to a smart player. Might make a good counterpick for people with glide tosses without items. COUNTERPICK

Green Greens - I don't know what to think of this stage. Characters with multiple jumps ledge stalling here is the dumbest thing ever. BANNED

Jungle Japes - So, a campy stage with a regular hazard and a current than can easily be jumped out of (Jump left then jump right)? I don't see anything wrong with it. Just ban it against me and Calvin. I doubt Calvin would even take you there. But I'm not that cool. COUNTERPICK

Luigi's Mansion - Makes for long matches... and circle camping is super dumb. BANNED

Pictochat - Stage allows for some characters to make up killing potential. Hazards appear on a regular basis (27s IIRC) and there IS a safe spot from every hazard (it's the same safe spot, so you can just go there very 27 seconds) COUNTERPICK

Pirate Ship - I don't see a problem with this stage. Hazards are telegraphed. Don't get hit in to them. Makes a great stage for characters with gimpable recoveries. Ike is beast here. COUNTERPICK

Pokémon Stadium 2 - Wtf who cares

Port Town Aero Dive - So this is basically like mute city right? Only the cars kill you? If the cars aren't random and someone explains their mechanic: COUNTERPICK, otherwise: BANNED

Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - I don't even know who would counterpick this level. Chaingrabable sides are silly, even if only done to some of the cast.

Norfair - Hazards are random but slightly telegraphed. Lots of ledges. Anti camping. Anti chain grabbing. COUNTERPICK

So I only want 3 stages to be banned.

 

[Dynomite]

Yoshi's- counterpick
lylat/poke- starter

STAGES I APROVE OF AS COUNTERPICKS

Pictochat- imo, its not that dif than pokemon stadium 1
Norfair- brinstar has random lava, no johns..
Brinstar- ^^
Delfino- just listen to the music and look at the city..
Frigate Orpheon- only bad part is the flip, and if you play on the level 5 times (MAX) against anyone, even a lvl 9 cpu, you wont die from the flip unless your mk.. we dont like u go away.
Rainbow Cruise- its just too fun. no johns
Jungle Japes- sure you can get gimped by the water, but who's fault is that? you wouldnt try to go under FD would you? high ceiling makes it a great wario/snake/WeeG counterpick.

 

[Player-1]

Starter:

Rainbow Cruise
Battlefield
Rainbow Cruise
Final Destination
Rainbow cruise
Smashville
Rainbow Cruise
Yoshi's Island
Rainbow Cruise

Counter:

Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Green Greens
Jungle Japes

Unsure:

Pictochat
Norfair

That's just me.

Japes-I need a stage to beat BigLou on >.>

Green Greens- Brinstar is more hazardous than this stage IMO. No character gets a STRONG advantage here except maybe D3. I don't know any other character that gets big advantages on this stage

Pictochat- meh, don't really care if this gets in or not, some hazards are easier to avoid than others, and it has the walls =/, don't really know. Although i can CP this against Squirtle >.>

Norfair- Lava is mostly avoidable if you know how to play the stage, the planking is just gay.

 

[BBQ°]

I hate everyone's stage list so far except Biglou's and maybe P-1's (too obsessed with RC). I especially hate Zom~B's list lololol. Just sayin.

 

[Laijin]

un ban Hannebow.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with Skyworld. It gives an unfair advantage to everyone. Just cause a stage has extra **** going on does not mean its a bad stage.
If that was true, Pokefloats and Rainbow Cruise would be banned in melee.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

Melee should be the only legal game.

I think I love you.


I've been anti-norfair from the brawl release date.

**** that stage.

 

[ZOM~B]

Oh, if we decide to stick with random stage selection, Battlefield, Final Destination, and Smashville should be the only starter stages.

 

[BBQ°]

I really like the idea of stage strikes.

If we did use Stage Strikes, then I agree that Castle Seige, Halberd, and Lylat Cruise should be part of the neutrals. And maybe Pokemon Stadium 1.

 

[ZOM~B]

You can't stage strike with an even number of stages.

 

[KOkingpin]

I know this is for Georgia and im from TN but im a TO in TN and figured i could throw in my 2 cents


Lylat Cruise - I think it is a Very balanced stage it has advantages for pretty much any character and it can hurt any character with its slight tilt. I personally use it as a Random

Brinstar - Counterpick. hurts quite a few chars. Helps ones who need it.

Castle Siege - Im not a fan of this stage. Lip on right side of first part, saving lives when map switch happens, Walk off on second part not to mention how huge it is for camping. The only good part is third map. I think it should be Banned

Delfino - I see no reason to have this banned but its not balanced enough to be a neutral

Frigate Orpheon - its a great stage for CP.

Green Greens - Never ban this stage its too fun. You can always break the bricks to keep Dedede from chain throwing.

Halberd - I think this is a nice CP too. a couple stage hazards thrown in the mix that are pretty easy to avoid but can be used to lure your opponent into them.

Pokémon Stadium 1 - Windmill sucks but other than that its a good stage.

Port Town Aero Dive - I may unban this one at my Next monthly to try it out.

Rainbow Cruise - this was a runaway haven in melee and its pretty much the same in brawl. but that doesnt mean it should be banned. people can get gimped pretty easy to fasten the pace of the match.

Distant Planet - Bad stage. Ban

Jungle Japes - you know this isnt that bad of a stage and i have it as a CP. People have to be careful about planking cause KlapTrap gonna get em

Luigi's Mansion - It does promote Planking but its still a decent stage. i think it should be a CP

Norfair - Its a yoshi haven but i still hate this stage. This stage in no way promote actually fighting someone. its more about who can hit who with the most projectiles and knock them into the lava. pretty stupid if you ask me. IMO its a stage that should be banned.

Pictochat - its a great stage. most of the stage hazards are so easy to avoid its ridiculous. and part of the Strategy of the stage is knocking your opponent into the hazards. CP all the way

Pirate Ship - Its a good stage. i use as CP. the only problem i see is the short time a free fall. But that kinda promotes aerial fighting. so i dont see a problem with it is short bursts.

Pokémon Stadium 2 - I have it as CP. but it should probably be banned cause of it just being a bad stage lol. Ice + Wind + electric = bad
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) -Ban Ban Ban Ban Ban. so many flaws with this stage. Ban one more time for good measure.



I really think we cant ban stages because of one stupid strategy. cause it can be done on any stage anyway.

 

[bigman40]

I know this is for Georgia and im from TN but im a TO in TN and figured i could throw in my 2 cents

Yoshi's Island (Pipes) -Ban Ban Ban Ban Ban. so many flaws with this stage. Ban one more time for good measure.

Explain yourself.

 

[KOkingpin]

Explain yourself.

short sides, dedede walk off, breaks everyone elses CG but not Dedede's, you may be able to Chomp Ness and Lucas with marth/Charizard (not sure about that one). Dedede's CG is like Fox Waveshining in Melee. If you can do it on a stage it needs to be banned almost all the time. Corneria is a beastly stage but because of Dedede it has to be banned.

 

[T3h Albino]

i love my character

 

[bigman40]

i love my character

Not the same for us when your character makes stages banned by utilizing one move >____>

 

[Umby]

I've been whoring this song lately, and felt it kinda describes D3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ayVevmnOE&fmt=18

 

[BBQ°]

As Rayku said, we should also discuss doubles stages.

I think Corneria and Jungle Japes are both good doubles stages. Thoughts?

 

[bigman40]

I guess I'll take a stab at dubs. I'll only list a few since I don't feel like goign into detail about much.

for CPs:
Corneria
Japes
Halberd
Delfino
PKST 1 & 2 (On the fence with 2, but it might be decent)
Castle Siege
PictoChat
Rainbow Cruise

 

[ZOM~B]

I think Corneria is banned because of game and watch more than because of D3... game and watch is so ridiculous on that stage.