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I'm partial to Peach's Castle myself.
Best music in the game imo.
Best music in the game imo.
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Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)
- Thread starter Megadoomer
- Start date
SSGuy
Smash Champion
If we are talking about stages. I still feel like Star Hill is the most iconic stage. It may not be that big of an area, but it certainly feels memorable enough to be the best stage to represent Super Mario RPG along with the Forest Maze and Vista Hill.
Plus you could technically have a tie in with M&L since Star Hill is a location in two of their games.
Plus you could technically have a tie in with M&L since Star Hill is a location in two of their games.
ForsakenM
Smash Lord
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If Byleth can get a touring stage, by gum I want Geno to get a stage that tours all the highlights of SMRPG.
I'm a bit biased, since to me that's literally the whole game, but Tadpole Pond, Vista Hill with Bowser's Castle in the background, Moleville, Nimbus Land...imagine trying to cut any area of SMRPG out of a touring stage.
It's really simple: make it like Yggdrasil's Altar but that we get more details for the world and the characters, and you are flying on the Blade with the Axem Ranger.
Firox
Smash Master
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YES. I never knew how much I wanted this stage until now. Imagine swinging by places like Booster's Tower or the top of Bowser's Castle with the Blade. The Breaker Beam could even be a stage hazard.
EricTheGamerman
Smash Master
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I don't really see how Smash has exclusively pushed the OGs of a genre and how that's a knock against Chief, especially when Halo helped the FPS genre grow in extremely meaningful ways and was very much at the forefront of the online gaming revolution that has made playing with friends on console so mainsteam (Yes, Phantasy Star Online and other stuff existed first, but Halo deserves some respect for its implementation and encouragement of it in a more easily accessible and friendly way).
And look, I'm sorry you've clearly had a lot of bad experiences with people who played Halo in the past. I'm not going to pretend to know details, but I also think it's worth acknowledging that you are projecting your own personal bad experience with individuals and generalizing that to both Halo and Xbox as a whole. That's not some universal truth and I never knew the people who played Halo to be anything but just other passionate nerds who enjoyed playing games just to give you my own anecdotal tilt to things. The people who were ****ty to you and around you weren't ****ty because of Halo or Xbox and they would have been ****ty regardless of what game they played. It could have been COD, it could have been Fifa, it could have been GTA, or any other game. Bullies are bullies and the ways they entertain themselves should not result in the condemnation of anything they like. People who were willing to be ****ty in the 2000s online were always going to be ****ty online, it's just Halo was a popular online game at the time that was easily accessible. But games like World of Warcraft, Medal of Honor, and such were all also really important to growing online gaming and experienced just as much awful people. Internet culture was an unregulated and unmodded wild world in the 2000s as older generations were barely able to understand how things were changing. That doesn't excuse the behaviors people displayed at the time, but it was just a reality of literally everything at the time.
The 20 million people who played Xbox weren't like new gamers either, a bunch of them grew up with the same Nintendo games that people in Smash communities love. And PS2 was far, far, far more prevalent with its 150 million units sold globally. They didn't "pollute the waters" and they "didn't make gaming worse". The online environment and the early 2000s in general just let too much stuff go unchecked and let a lot of young people get away with awful things. And those awful things happened regardless of the games and such. I don't think it's fair at all to blame Halo and Xbox for bad experiences like that anymore than it would be fair to me to blame the entire Geno fan base for some bad experiences I've had with specific individuals.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Video games, like most art, are just a contest of seeing whose stolen idea will make it big first. If you want to split hairs, most Smash characters are likely not the OGs of their respective genre, but Nintendo's first party offerings in Smash are typically the most well known of their genre. I don't think anyone would argue, for instance, that Mario is the defining platformer character. You can apply this to Link, Samus (Samus especially since an entire genre has been named after Metroid at this point)... I don't think it helps anything to list all of the characters off. Recall that I excluded Ness, Cloud, Bayonetta and Joker, though in terms of "recognizable", it's probably fair to say that Cloud is the absolute face of JRPGs and Joker has become the overnight champion of dungeon based dating simulators.
So is Master Chief now the "easy console online gaming" representative? A far cry from the FPS rep he was billed up to be.
This is a fact I acknowledged in my post. To say it again, I don't blame Halo for creating those people and in many cases, I knew the unnamed examples to be assholes long before the Xbox was a twinkle in Bill Gates' eye. But, thanks to this line:
I feel what you may have overlooked is the implication that these people had no interest in video games beforehand. God bless whatever heavily invested nerds you knew who liked Halo but it was undeniably a gateway for dudebro douchebags to invade the hobby, which of course leads to
I feel like your statement on the PS2 is a bit disingenuous since you're comparing the success of Sony's second time in the ring to Microsoft's debut in the industry, although I feel like there's a lot of other factors to why the Xbox did so poorly globally, an analysis of which is outside of the scope of this thread and especially this conversation. I'm going to stick to my opinion that the waters were indeed polluted and gaming as a whole has suffered due to this mainstream appeal that the Xbox has created and this was undeniably fueled by the success of Halo. We enjoyed a solid 15 years of video games being a thriving, innovative and profitable industry before the Xbox came along, so you can't argue that there was a need to have mainstream appeal to keep it afloat, but ever since we have seen more and more pandering to the lowest common denominator until here we are, beyond the near satirical point where a video game "journalist" can't clear the tutorial to Cuphead (ironically initially an Xbox exclusive title) and that screams to me "check out the guy who didn't play a single video game until 2001".
Why yes, this is a "gatekeeping", elitist mentality, thank you for thinking such. No one bats an eye when art critics or haughty chefs carry similar opinions. My thoughts and opinions won't change anything on the larger scale, but I would wager that if we had a larger percentage of people with that mentality, we wouldn't have the issues we have in gaming today. Of course, what can I expect from a culture founded on the backs of people who got zero social interaction in their formative years and desperately want friends/acknowledgement more than anything else? The wish for acceptance has indeed been granted.
I would suggest taking this to the Master Chief thread, but I'm not the kind of clown who'll go into someone's support thread and tell them all the reasons I think their character shouldn't make it. If you're interested in trying to convince me of something further, fold it up and throw it into my inbox because this is far and beyond off topic here, unless Master Chief removes his helmet at the end of Halo Infinite and reveals that he was Geno all along.
SSGuy
Smash Champion
I don't agree with any of these points. Halo was there to carry my interest in gaming during Middle School. Without it, I probably wouldn't continue to care about the games I consider my favorite of all time. (Like SMRPG)
Being mad at Halo for inviting "DudeBros" to gaming is like being made at something like the Awesome Face for introducing "normies" to memes. On top of that, I don't think I have ever seen a Toxic MC Supporter at all so the narrative of them ruining Smash is already kind of a bust.
This is probably a better discussion for the Master Chief thread however which I will end here by saying as a Geno fan, Master Chief would be really awesome way to end Smash Bros.
~~~
I wanted to also mention that while everyone has concerns over Geno being a really defensive zoner, I just don't get that at all. Considering he's more of a Strike Mage in SMRPG than anything, I would assume Geno would be more like Sheik than he would Samus. One way I figured would be a really beneficial way to give him a really strong rush down zoner moveset would be to provide him with a Star Gauge Mechanic that allows him to utilize his Geno Beam charges for other specials and reload them when they have expended.
The best way for me to describe this would be to allow Geno to store up to 3 charges with his Neutral B (These show as Red Stars at the bottom of the gauge and act as a mini limit. Geno can use his charges on the following moves.
-Neutral Special: The move is replaced by Geno Beam which fires a huge beam of light and hits for fairly solid knock back. Easily punished if missed and locks you out of recharging for a bit. (Uses all 3 charges)
-Side Special: Turns Geno Whirl into a much faster Geno Whirl and enables timed hits with it for more damage and knock back. (User 1 Charge)
-Down Special: Geno Blast is faster, hits harder and has more hits per move. (This move I imagine would be Geno summoning a cloud or some kind of obvious area that is triggered upon the character approaching it. This would work as a really strong edge guarding tool or a tech chase trap similar to Isabelle's Lloyd Rocket or Snake's Mine from Brawl instead it's airborne and will catch anyone who passes underneath it. (Uses 1 Charge)
-Up Special: Geno's recovery has always been the most difficult to come up with but I imagine it would be just like Rosalina's. However he is extremely reliant on his Neutral Special to have a similar distance to her. Without any charges, he has a much shorter/weaker recovery. (Uses 1 Charge)
Basically just something to keep him true to his hard hitting/fast playstyle in SMRPG while also providing him a mechanic worth of a mage gunner.
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Geno Boost
Smash Master
Geno boost as the up special is the best option if you tried smash crusade it doesnt hit just goes upward but it increase the attack and defense for a bit of time
SSGuy
Smash Champion
I was always treating Geno Boost as the Neutral Special before it becomes Geno Beam. I just forgot the terminology for a second.
D
Deleted member
Guest
The general lack of boosting effects in Smash is kind of disappointing. I've never liked the idea of using Geno Boost as a recovery since it seems like a lazy cop-out based purely on name, but it having a secondary buff effect would be neat. Just because I hate to see a move concept be given to another character in a "it's like [x] but better" fashion, I'd really want to see this have a timing requirement like Wii Fit Trainer's Deep Breathing. Maybe hitting B again at the peak of the jump or something.
Geno Boost
Smash Master
Geno Boost can be timed just like any move he does in SMRPG https://www.mariowiki.com/Geno_Boost see it gives defense boost if the move is timed perfectly
D
Deleted member
Guest
I know that part, I'm just thinking about a hypothetical Smash version of the move. It's a recovery move, and I know that Sakurai has a big love of "comeback mechanics", but I have to wonder if it's smart to have the recovery move both literally and
Basically what I was trying to say was that Wii Fit's Deep Breathing requires you to time the move to get a buff, and it would be odd for Geno to press Up and B, get a buff for free, and come back to the stage. Adding a timing mechanic to get the buff not only works with what most agree would be his general gimmick, but would introduce a variety of other balance nuance. The obvious being that it doesn't outclass Wii Fit's version of the move, but there's other questions in the mix: should aiming for ledge give you a buff (+ ledge invuln?) or should you require that the player opt to recover high to get the buff and try to land? Use the up B in advantage rather than chasing followups? Etc.
ForsakenM
Smash Lord
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This is implying he doesn't just use Earlier Times out of his hat to take him back to his original position X number of seconds ago, something akin to Ekko's Ultimate from League of Legends.
WeirdAlFan101
Smash Journeyman
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Personally speaking, I prefer the idea of Geno Blast being Up B, where Geno fires more lasers beneath him to propel himself upwards, depending on how long it's charged up.
Then we could have Geno Boost as Down B to function similar to how it actually did in game, without feeling like it's contrived for the sake of making it a recovery based on how it's named.
Then we could have Geno Boost as Down B to function similar to how it actually did in game, without feeling like it's contrived for the sake of making it a recovery based on how it's named.
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Geno Boost
Smash Master
here is something i didnt see anyone talk about
would you like Geno having the flower point bar on his icon for the special attacks and function similar to
and run out of special attacks if the special attacks get overused
would you like Geno having the flower point bar on his icon for the special attacks and function similar to
and run out of special attacks if the special attacks get overused
high enough possibly it can come with strong armor if timed perfectly for the defense boost part of the recovery animation so Geno wont get damaged
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I don't agree with giving Geno any kind of ammunition mechanic at all for two reasons. First, it's just kind of a bad idea in a fighting game that's so heavily reliant on positional advantage to give certain characters a limit on what may very well be their neutral tools. It's kind of up in the air if you want to consider Ness or Pikachu the first RPG character added to the game, but despite both of them relying on a classical "magic" system under a different name, neither has a limit on their projectile usage. Samus has a limit on missiles, and likewise, Zelda brought tons of magic with her from a franchise that also has a magic meter.here is something i didnt see anyone talk about
would you like Geno having the flower point bar on his icon for the special attacks and function similar to
high enough possibly it can come with strong armor if timed perfectly for the defense boost part of the recovery animation so Geno wont get damaged
It confuses me that Robin, one of the slowest characters in the game, was chosen to be the recipient of Smash's first ammunition based moveset for no reason other than being true to Fire Emblem's weapon durability system. For Hero, it's understandable because the moves are absolutely balls out. Kafrizz has like twice the knockback of Samus' fully charged shot and the Zap line is the best non-projectile projectile in the game save for Min Min's arms. Hero deserves to have a limit on what he can cast, again, because those moves are cracked. Robin's moves are outright pitiful, and I think his kit takes the trophy for absolutely worst moveset ever conceived by Sakurai.
Second, I just don't think a fighter needs to have janky gimmick stacked on top of janky gimmick. Pretty much no one will argue the fact that Geno would bring the Mario RPG spinoffs' timed hits/action commands to Smash, and stacking that up with a magic gauge seems overkill. DLC characters get a bad rap for having some wild mechanic that no one else has but they're always singleminded and just happen to lean on "comeback mechanic" a bit much.
Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, I think it's odd how people tend to think of Geno Beam as some kind of charge up attack. I've really been thinking of pretty much all of his moves as full commitment type deals. I guess it's because of the ambiguity of "Hold Y for Power", but Geno Beam is very obviously a move that Geno is married to once he starts using it. I think of it more like a Falcon Punch or a Byleth arrow... Preferably more like the latter, since you can cancel out of the animation and use it for mixups. It strikes me as a move where you tap once to activate and then hold when it's time to get the full effect.
Firox
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In terms of a chargeable neutral B for Geno Beam, I image something more akin to Greninja's water shuriken rather than something like Byleth's arrow. Reason being because I don't think it should be an all or nothing move and "holding Y for power" implies that the longer you hold it, the stronger and farther reaching it will be.
D
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Guest
I take issue with that only because the proper timing for Geno Beam is to hold Y after the stars have done their "charge" animation.
Firox
Smash Master
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Then there would be a "timed hits" sort of element to max out the range and damage. I just don't like the idea of doing a really cool charge up and then dropping it entirely because of the do or don't style of moves like Byleth's Arrow or Seph's Flare.
bardbowman
Smash Apprentice
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I thought the proper timing was to hold Y until all three stars appeared on the screen.
D
Deleted member
Guest
From the Mario wiki:
"According to the instructions, to time it correctly, a player must press and hold Y Button button and then release when the third star on the star meter appears. It requires 3 Flower Points."
Geno jumps when you do it right.
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WeirdAlFan101
Smash Journeyman
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That's how it works? Whenever I used it, he always jumped only when firing at levitating enemies like Pulsars.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I just have the memory of the first time I did it right, he jumped. Doing some reading, it says that he does only jump if the enemy floats. It always does more damage, even if he doesn't jump.
I started playing Super Mario RPG lately, so I figured this would be the right thread to ask questions about the game.
I'm stuck in the Yoshi race minigame, because for some reason it seems like my button presses simply don't work. I'm probably doing this wrong, but can any of you guys provide me with advice on what the **** I'm supposed to do?
I'm stuck in the Yoshi race minigame, because for some reason it seems like my button presses simply don't work. I'm probably doing this wrong, but can any of you guys provide me with advice on what the **** I'm supposed to do?
SSGuy
Smash Champion
I still struggle with that one to this day. The timing seems different from what they are trying to convey to you. This video is probably the most ideal method that I have come across if you are looking for the specific beat.
Thanks! I'll try it the next time I boot up the game.
Icewolff92
Smash Champion
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So what do people think? Is the last fighter revealed at a direct or a Mr Sakurai present at this point?
ivanlerma
Smash Master
Well, If Insiders are in the right then definitely a direct.
Firox
Smash Master
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Which ever comes first, to be honest. My money is on a Direct reveal, followed by the announcement of a Sakurai Presents probably a week later which will likely culminate in a same-day release.
Icewolff92
Smash Champion
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So there is an announcement about what looks like a new controller for Nintendo Switch (many suspect its an "N64 controller" for an updated NSO similar to how we have the SNES/NES controllers ) https://twitter.com/RostiResetEra/status/1440375526397399048
Vector Victor
Smash Lord
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1440677268041338897
Direct announced for tomorrow for 3PM western time.
And with that, Smash speculation may be coming to a close.
Direct announced for tomorrow for 3PM western time.
And with that, Smash speculation may be coming to a close.
Icewolff92
Smash Champion
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It's during Midnight for me.. dear lord
S1itchey
Smash Apprentice
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I honestly have doubts we'll see smash in this direct. Sakurai did say we'd have to wait awhile until the final character was revealed. But if it was revealed in this direct that would just seem like the normal amount of time it takes to reveal another fighter since the last one.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I think this is because Sakurai doesn't really know when Nintendo will decide to show off the character, since it's ultimately their decision. I've long thought that if it were up to Sakurai we would know the contents of the pass up front and see the trailers as soon as they're finished. Before COVID we were getting a pretty clear picture painted that Sakurai and team were plowing through these fighters and Nintendo was just holding off on the announcements to pad directs/build hype for them, especially in the Banjo presentation in which Sakurai made the statement that he didn't know when we'd be seeing it, but he knew it would be well after Hero.
Hell, I think even here in COVID hell, the Smash team has been doing a great job getting characters developed. Sakurai mentioned in one of his columns that the development had barely been affected because the team took to working from home so well, and I'm willing to believe it.
Pretty crazy that all of this comes to an end in what'll likely be just an average direct. It's not fair to say that I've spent 20 years of my life speculating over Super Smash Bros characters, but it is accurate to say I've spent 20 years of my life thinking about how many cool characters the game could have. Thinking about that coming to a close tomorrow is heavy, regardless of who we see. I'm not ready to stop caring, but at the same time, I'm very ready to be done with this.
WeirdAlFan101
Smash Journeyman
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So what does everyone expect to be shown off tomorrow? I'm certain there will be one last look at Mario Party Superstars before it releases, and maybe some Splatoon 3.
D
Deleted member
Guest
They say mainly games launching this winter, so I'm guessing we'll see all of their holiday lineup and anything they have planned for launch in January/February. Splatoon 3 has a really good chance of showing up, seeing as how a February launch would put it a year from the trailer we got... Which let's be honest, it looked virtually identical to Splatoon 2. I think the only thing keeping it from a 2021 release is COVID or just some sales strategy to appease investors by having something for that time of year.
Honestly, I forgot everything from E3 that wasn't Metroid Dread and Kazuya, it feels like there's very little interesting on the horizon. Another look at Advance Wars and Mario Party like you mentioned... Maybe they'll surprise us.
S1itchey
Smash Apprentice
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I know its unlikely but I'm really hoping for more info on mario plus rabbids sparks of hope. Also n64 switch online.
Elmorethemagician
Smash Journeyman
Hopefully, I'm kind of glad it's almost over now....
ForsakenM
Smash Lord
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Such a statement is up for debate.
Adrianette Bromide
Smash Lord
Since Kazuya happened, I think Geno's not impossible. Here's the best for you guys tomorrow.