Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

[Deleted member]

"I wonder what's going on in the Geno thread today"


Classic, honestly.

Spoiler: hacktivision gizzard

I have never thought that Crash or Rayman stand much of a chance of getting into Smash (and I elaborated on why very recently in another thread), but I actually do think that if Nintendo is worried about bad PR, they could cut a character entirely mid development and start on a "new" one. I'm not keen on believing internet soothsayers, but there's a little intrigue surrounding Byleth's possible origins as a Monster Hunter... Hunter that, if true, suggests that Sakurai and team can play on their feet. I know I would be thrilled to find out that Rayman was cut due to PR issues and replaced with Plok, as a ridiculous example.

To echo myself, this is not the first time that Activision has found themselves in hot water - their ethics and the company they keep have drawn ire from the full spectrum, from the lowly gamer to the mighty blogger and the all powerful journalist. If at any point in the past Nintendo looked at them and said "why yes, this is a company that we should work with on this best-selling crossover platform fighter party game hybrid", they have had equally many opportunities to say "nevermind lmao", and who knows, there might be some lawyer type at Nintendo wiping sweat from his brow thinking about the bullet they dodged or the bullet yet to come.

But honestly, Nintendo typically does a great job of ignoring sociopolitical issues outright, proving that pretending not to speak English is among the most powerful spells, even today. Crash could end up in the game at the end of the week and without a doubt some angry Twitter mob would grandstand for a day or two and finally quiet down when they find something new to be outraged over and Nintendo would simply go on acting like nothing ever happened. Truly a lost art. They still get it, in that the characters themselves weren't designed to promote key morality choices that are timelessly "bad". Crash is a funny cereal box mascot character who dies when he's killed and spins around a lot. He is not now, nor will he ever be, a symbol of workplace no-nos, nor will... uh...

checks notes

Nope, I don't think Activision has any other characters. So keep supporting Crash Bandicoot if you like him, because he has never once disrespected a woman.

Anyway, looking back through the thread, it's really cool that they're putting Geno into Guilty Gear. I'm not very good at anime fighters but I reckon it's about time to learn.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Okay, random question: how do you perceive Geno's characterization and personality? What sort of character development could he be put through in future games?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, random question: how do you perceive Geno's characterization and personality? What sort of character development could he be put through in future games?

I feel like he's the stoic and comically serious. So more serious than Bowser is, generally.

Him loosing up more would be a good way to do it. He kind of looks more giddy during some of the victory animations at best.

 

[Vector Victor]

Okay, random question: how do you perceive Geno's characterization and personality? What sort of character development could he be put through in future games?

Complete drunkard with an unhealthy obsession with Bingo and air hockey.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Complete drunkard with an unhealthy obsession with Bingo and air hockey.

Pulitzer Prize winning material, ladies and gentlemen

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like he's the stoic and comically serious. So more serious than Bowser is, generally.

Him loosing up more would be a good way to do it. He kind of looks more giddy during some of the victory animations at best.

There are past regulars to this thread who would argue that he is far from "serious". He's dutiful and tends to have a one track mind, and with Mallow (in the English version at least) he sometimes seems jokingly (or maybe seriously) condescending. His interactions with Bowser often tended to be either jeering or matter of fact, and they always got him the response that he wanted... In this way, it's maybe a fair assumption that, being a wish granter, he tends to know the hearts of the people he speaks to - he is, after all, in a position that lets him see people's thoughts and desires on the regular.

The unflattering way to put this would be "manipulative"; ironic to see the puppet pulling the strings... But it's not really a bad thing. He has an intimate knowledge of the situation and how to fix it, and he guides and assists Mario who would have otherwise had no stake in the matter past rescuing the princess.

So, I get "serious", but I lean towards "computing". His actions are purpose driven and his treatment of the people around him is optimized around the individual, and in some meta sense, that includes our perception of him.

In some magical realm where he's reused in a Mario title in which "character development" or "growth" is a concept at all, I think a Geno who is not prepared to deal with the situation optimally would be interesting. Perhaps he's been cut off from wishes for a long time and has lost track of the nature of the people he's dealing with, and has to wing it as far as interpersonal skills go... Things like that.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Ok so there was a mallow plush that sold for $21,000 on yahoo japan auction and there is now a bidding war for this Boshi plush

非売品 スーパーマリオRPG ぬいぐるみ マロ タカ... - ヤフオク!

アンティークな非売品のタカラ製　スーパーマリオRPGのぬいぐるみのマロです。若干擦り傷あります。状態は画像で確認下さい。アンティークな物ですのでご理解頂ける方よろしくお願いいたします。　サイズ　H190mm

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

非売品 スーパーマリオRPG ぬいぐるみ ワッシー ... - ヤフオク!

非売品のタカラ製　スーパーマリオRPGのぬいぐるみのワッシーです。ケース内にて飾ってましたので美品だと思います。アンティークな物ですのでご理解頂ける方よろしくお願いいたします。　サイズH265mm

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

There is also a mallow keychain on auction too.

スーパーマリオRPG ソフトキーホルダー MS-2 マ... - ヤフオク!

バンプレスト製プライズ品、当時品です。画像の単3乾電池は大きさ比較用の為で、付属しません。新品未開封で、状態は良好だと思いますが、パッケージの微傷など、細部にまででこだわられる方や疑問点などは、オークション終了一日前までに必ずご質問の上、状態に関しましては一切ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願いします。 発送についてですが、定形外郵便で送料120円、 (補償なし、プチプチ＋ビニール袋または封筒の簡易梱包) 若しくはゆうパック(通常)になります。 (大阪府より60サイズで

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Oh wow, we actually have a new thread?

I'll be popping in here occasionally but I doubt I'll be nearly as active as I was on the old thread, given the current circumstances of Geno's chances for Ultimate. Might start being more active once this game's speculation scene is all nice and wrapped up.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok so there was a mallow plush that sold for $21,000 on yahoo japan auction and there is now a bidding war for this Boshi plush

非売品 スーパーマリオRPG ぬいぐるみ マロ タカ... - ヤフオク!

アンティークな非売品のタカラ製　スーパーマリオRPGのぬいぐるみのマロです。若干擦り傷あります。状態は画像で確認下さい。アンティークな物ですのでご理解頂ける方よろしくお願いいたします。　サイズ　H190mm

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

非売品 スーパーマリオRPG ぬいぐるみ ワッシー ... - ヤフオク!

非売品のタカラ製　スーパーマリオRPGのぬいぐるみのワッシーです。ケース内にて飾ってましたので美品だと思います。アンティークな物ですのでご理解頂ける方よろしくお願いいたします。　サイズH265mm

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

There is also a mallow keychain on auction too.

スーパーマリオRPG ソフトキーホルダー MS-2 マ... - ヤフオク!

バンプレスト製プライズ品、当時品です。画像の単3乾電池は大きさ比較用の為で、付属しません。新品未開封で、状態は良好だと思いますが、パッケージの微傷など、細部にまででこだわられる方や疑問点などは、オークション終了一日前までに必ずご質問の上、状態に関しましては一切ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願いします。 発送についてですが、定形外郵便で送料120円、 (補償なし、プチプチ＋ビニール袋または封筒の簡易梱包) 若しくはゆうパック(通常)になります。 (大阪府より60サイズで

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

I thought the Mallow keychain was next to an energy drink and was like "that keychain is ****ing huge". I now realize that it is a battery.

 

[Firox]

Anyway, looking back through the thread, it's really cool that they're putting Geno into Guilty Gear. I'm not very good at anime fighters but I reckon it's about time to learn.

Wait, what?! Are they seriously putting Geno into Guilty Gear or did I miss the sarcasm somewhere?

EDIT: Ah, I see the Geno skin for Ramlethal. Makes sense...

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, what?! Are they seriously putting Geno into Guilty Gear or did I miss the sarcasm somewhere?

EDIT: Ah, I see the Geno skin for Ramlethal. Makes sense...

Because I didn't have any real Geno related input, I was making a haha funny joke about this post: https://smashboards.com/threads/gen...support-thread-2.512207/page-31#post-24463621

It would be the weirdest place for Geno to make a comeback. I wonder how many people would truly be ok with that...

 

[Firox]

It would be the weirdest place for Geno to make a comeback. I wonder how many people would truly be ok with that...

I agree, it would be such a weird place for Geno to resurface, but honestly I'd take any form of resurgence if it could get Nintendo and Squeenix to wake up and give him a chance.

 

[ForsakenM]

I had a big post about the history of boycotts and stuff, but it seems we've moved past that and the biggest take away from all of this is that you can support Crash without supporting Act-Bliz and that boycotts DO in fact work when done in sizable numbers with real dedication.

More importantly, I'm seeing this weird doubt about Geno again, as well as vitriol against Nintendo and Square again, and I have to say I'm kinda sick of it.

You can have doubts about Geno all you want, regardless if his chances are good or not, of which currently they are pretty fair but under that of characters like Phoenix Wright, Chief and Crash. I even think that, base on research I've done, that CP11 isn't Geno.

However, we REALLY need to stop acting like Nintendo and Square are evil companies just because our silly little late-90s puppet boi who essentially died because of Nintendo doing their thing where they are behind the times isn't getting more recognition. Our small little niche corner of the world isn't the only thing that matters. Sure, it matters to us, but just because we don't get what we want doesn't mean Nintendo is doing a bad job or Square is anti-consumer. It's simply that they specifically catering to bigger audiences, and honestly both are doing an incredible job right now overall, even with some hiccups along the way.

Like, talking about Ultimate specifically, Nintendo and Sakurai made the decision to get Ridley, K. Rool, Belmonts, Isabelle, Joker, Hero, mother-****ing Banjo and Kazooie, freaking Steve, and Sephiroth himself. Debate all you want on the other inclusions, but these are top tier inclusions and that isn't debatable at all, regardless of your preference.

Also, don't forget that Square wanted Noctis or Lightning over Cloud originally, but Sakurai stuck by his guns, and then suddenly they were all about getting more FF7 content in Smash after the success of FF7R and Cloud in Smash 4. The Square Enix of 2015 would never have even considered Geno as anything more than the costume we got, but the Square Enix of now is very much in touch in terms of development and giving people what they want, even if they have difficulty in the advertisement part sometimes.

I honestly think we are currently in the best timeline we've been in for more SMRPG to come our way, and as far as Geno in Smash we just need to hope that the rumbles are true and maybe Nintendo changed their minds and we will get more DLC somehow, but I feel confident that both Nintendo and Square know about our requests and are cooking something up.

 

[Deleted member]

More importantly, I'm seeing this weird doubt about Geno again, as well as vitriol against Nintendo and Square again, and I have to say I'm kinda sick of it.

Uh... Are we looking at the same thread? I don't really see it. It was like two pages of "Activision bad" and then general Geno funposting.

 

[Firox]

However, we REALLY need to stop acting like Nintendo and Square are evil companies

Uh... Are we looking at the same thread? I don't really see it. It was like two pages of "Activision bad" and then general Geno funposting.

I was about to say the same thing, Serenade. Where is anyone calling Nintendo and Square evil companies? I'm pretty sure no one would argue the logic behind their decision to overlook Geno. My only hope is that enough relentless fandom will eventually change their minds about Geno being a worthy inclusion to Smash (or other Mario IPs).

 

[Dan]

The Mallow plush selling for 21.5K is beyond insane... I'm surprised no one commented on that. I was lucky enough to get a full keychain set in great condition for $374 off Mercari Japan (which was like beyond a bargain afaik):

I feel like he's the stoic and comically serious. So more serious than Bowser is, generally.

Him loosing up more would be a good way to do it. He kind of looks more giddy during some of the victory animations at best.

Stoic I definitely agree with, but I'm not sure about comically serious. I feel like he's the kinda guy who would have everyone's respect and everyone would think is cool... a consummate pro, but not take himself too seriously.

 

[Deleted member]

The Mallow plush selling for 21.5K is beyond insane... I'm surprised no one commented on that. I was lucky enough to get a full keychain set in great condition for $374 off Mercari Japan (which was like beyond a bargain afaik):

I'm so jealous I could yell.

 

[MattX20]

Interesting perspective on the second fighter pass

 

[Deleted member]

Beat SMRPG for the first time yesterday evening without using the Lazy Shell.

I realized that the game is actually extremely easy. It's weird.

EDIT:

Interesting perspective on the second fighter pass

I honestly disagree entirely ¯\/(ツ)\/¯

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

Beat SMRPG for the first time yesterday evening without using the Lazy Shell.

I realized that the game is actually extremely easy. It's weird.

EDIT:



I honestly disagree entirely ¯\/(ツ)\/¯

The hard mode is beating it without Peach in your party. My first time playing was using a team of Bowser and Geno when I was too young to grasp important she was as a healer.

 

[Deleted member]

The hard mode is beating it without Peach in your party. My first time playing was using a team of Bowser and Geno when I was too young to grasp important she was as a healer.

Peach's outstanding healing capacity is what turned me into a weirdo who never buys or uses healing items in virtually any game... Whether or not it's a good idea.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Peach's outstanding healing capacity is what turned me into a weirdo who never buys or uses healing items in virtually any game... Whether or not it's a good idea.

Honestly, once you learn Come Back the game is pretty much broken. There's a reason people put out hard mode roms.

The game really needs to be remade and sequels made, even if it's just us fans that do it.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, once you learn Come Back the game is pretty much broken. There's a reason people put out hard mode roms.

The game really needs to be remade and sequels made, even if it's just us fans that do it.

Peach can't [Come Back] herself so there'll always be a need for Pick-Me-Ups, but since normal physical attacks tend to do so much damage, it's reasonable to say that you can responsibly use your FP and never die. The game almost never sends larger groups of threatening enemies after you. This is why (at least in my experience) King Calamari, Czar Dragon and Domino/Cloaker were stiff bottlenecks - you had to square up against a boss that got more than one move a turn and poor RNG or bad planning (or both) meant you were getting bopped.

I put the finishing blow on Smithy with a friend watching and while he and I both admit that SMRPG is one of the all time greatest, it has aged poorly in some aspects. There's no way to know what items do while in battle, status effects aren't well defined, boss HP is invisible, weaknesses exist but are never explained or explored... Stuff that pretty much every RPG of the age suffered from. Uniquely, SMRPG suffers from its timed hits mechanic, since there's no visual indicator and you just have to "feel it" or practice until you get it right... In my opinion, that's absolutely fine, but the modern gamer has none of it.

That stuff's the peak reason for a remake, to me. It would be great to be able to tell younger guns how fun the game is without having to say "but understand that to you it's going to both play and look like sweaty ass but please stick with it so you'll agree with me that Geno is cool" due to these shortcomings. I don't think it would take a whole lot - something as simplistic as the SaGa Frontier remaster would probably modernize it enough to be a hit.

 

[S1itchey]

Beat SMRPG for the first time yesterday evening without using the Lazy Shell.

I realized that the game is actually extremely easy. It's weird.

EDIT:



I honestly disagree entirely ¯\/(ツ)\/¯

Same honestly. This pass is kind of buttcheeks. I mean Steve is pretty fun but that's about it.

 

[ForsakenM]

Same honestly. This pass is kind of buttcheeks. I mean Steve is pretty fun but that's about it.

I'm actually planning on making a video response to this sooner rather than later, the idea being that while FP2 is fantastic in terms of filling in the holes, it's done a horrible job at fulfilling the desires of the community, especially older fans.

 

[Deleted member]

Same honestly. This pass is kind of buttcheeks. I mean Steve is pretty fun but that's about it.

Despite the gripes I have with some of the picks, I wouldn't call the pass "buttcheeks", but it definitely does not "patch holes" in Smash as a franchise. I can see that argument with Sephiroth, but I don't really vibe with it when it's used as justification for Min Min or Pythra. I've sort of given up on trying to "justify" Smash inclusions, though. I admitted in a post not so (ok, maybe) long ago that Smash has more or less been a very fun advertisement since Melee, if not the very first entry, but there's ultimately nothing wrong with that. All we can hope to do is like the games that are getting advertised.

 

[Dan]

Beat SMRPG for the first time yesterday evening without using the Lazy Shell.

I realized that the game is actually extremely easy. It's weird.

I guess it just depends how much you grind. I had to abuse tf out of rewind and save states when I beat it on the SNES Classic a year or two ago, primarily on the later battles.

I'm actually planning on making a video response to this sooner rather than later, the idea being that while FP2 is fantastic in terms of filling in the holes, it's done a horrible job at fulfilling the desires of the community, especially older fans.

The DLC has been absolutely putrid for older fans.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess it just depends how much you grind. I had to abuse tf out of rewind and save states when I beat it on the SNES Classic a year or two ago, primarily on the later battles.

I left out a lot of my story because after writing like 5 paragraphs, I felt like "this is a bit much to say I beat the game without Lazy Shell", and ended up shortening that post. The copy of SMRPG in question was one that my friend bought in a lot and he wanted to know that they worked, so he brought them to me. In being sure that it powered on, I took a look at the save files and noted that one was in Factory at level 25. I know my old saves at the end of the game are around 30, maybe at the very least 29, so to me, this was a low level file. I ended up just having to try it out to see if the save was early in Factory, but it was right before the Gun Yolk fight. I was impressed with how easily I was able to clear Gun Yolk and Smithy with just Mario, Peach and Mallow being the only characters this former player had even properly kitted, not to mention the lack of Lazy Shell.

I know that level 25 isn't necessarily some kind of low level run compared to whole game Level 3 runs or some RNG abusing speedruns, but my childhood won't let me think of it as prepared to beat the game.

 

[kiteinthesky]

I left out a lot of my story because after writing like 5 paragraphs, I felt like "this is a bit much to say I beat the game without Lazy Shell", and ended up shortening that post. The copy of SMRPG in question was one that my friend bought in a lot and he wanted to know that they worked, so he brought them to me. In being sure that it powered on, I took a look at the save files and noted that one was in Factory at level 25. I know my old saves at the end of the game are around 30, maybe at the very least 29, so to me, this was a low level file. I ended up just having to try it out to see if the save was early in Factory, but it was right before the Gun Yolk fight. I was impressed with how easily I was able to clear Gun Yolk and Smithy with just Mario, Peach and Mallow being the only characters this former player had even properly kitted, not to mention the lack of Lazy Shell.

I know that level 25 isn't necessarily some kind of low level run compared to whole game Level 3 runs or some RNG abusing speedruns, but my childhood won't let me think of it as prepared to beat the game.

To be honest, the game doesn't really seem like it was intended to be difficult; it seems more feelings-driven if that makes any sense.

Whenever everybody's down to make a remake, I'll happily throw my hat in.

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, the game doesn't really seem like it was intended to be difficult; it seems more feelings-driven if that makes any sense.

Whenever everybody's down to make a remake, I'll happily throw my hat in.

I find myself wondering if any JRPG is actually "difficult" since they all can be easily beaten by grinding for hours on end and looking up or formulating winning strategies. Difficulty from these games typically resides in actually figuring out how to best use the mechanics (or, to bring up SaGa Frontier again, actually figuring out how the mechanics even work). I get the vibe of what you're saying here, the game isn't hard because it doesn't ask you to grind too much and is focused on helping you experience the story. Big part of why I loved it so much as a kid was the (at the time revolutionary) concept of being able to avoid battles.

 

[SSGuy]

I find myself wondering if any JRPG is actually "difficult" since they all can be easily beaten by grinding for hours on end and looking up or formulating winning strategies. Difficulty from these games typically resides in actually figuring out how to best use the mechanics (or, to bring up SaGa Frontier again, actually figuring out how the mechanics even work). I get the vibe of what you're saying here, the game isn't hard because it doesn't ask you to grind too much and is focused on helping you experience the story. Big part of why I loved it so much as a kid was the (at the time revolutionary) concept of being able to avoid battles.

Multiple playthroughs of any JRPG will significantly make them easier. I'm sure most of the bosses at the very end will take someone new to the game a few times to figure out damage type, ideal team comp etc

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'm actually planning on making a video response to this sooner rather than later, the idea being that while FP2 is fantastic in terms of filling in the holes, it's done a horrible job at fulfilling the desires of the community, especially older fans.

I agree completely! The BlastBox video acts like it's a never-ending cycle to want characters, that people will just keep wanting the next one after a fan favorite gets added, and that kinda doesn't sit well with me. I feel like it frames those who want characters as greedy and ungrateful. You think I don't adore the additions of Ridley, K Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie to this day? Of course I do! But there no denying that I feel a slight twinge of disappointment when I look at FP2. Steve is the only one who is sort of a fan favorite in the speculation community, and he wasn't among our most-requested. We were kinda 50/50 on him. So, odds are we'll be looking at pass that doesn't satisfy the community much at all, and that leaves me feeling kinda sour tbh. I don't want us to get nothing but fan-requested characters, as that would make coming additions predictable and I like keeping the possibilities open for characters we aren't considering. But I'm currently left wanting for just one or two more fan favorites, as I think that would have provided a better balance, rather than my current feelings that we were pretty ignored.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree completely! The BlastBox video acts like it's a never-ending cycle to want characters, that people will just keep wanting the next one after a fan favorite gets added, and that kinda doesn't sit well with me. I feel like it frames those who want characters as greedy and ungrateful. You think I don't adore the additions of Ridley, K Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie to this day? Of course I do! But there no denying that I feel a slight twinge of disappointment when I look at FP2. Steve is the only one who is sort of a fan favorite in the speculation community, and he wasn't among our most-requested. We were kinda 50/50 on him. So, odds are we'll be looking at pass that doesn't satisfy the community much at all, and that leaves me feeling kinda sour tbh. I don't want us to get nothing but fan-requested characters, as that would make coming additions predictable and I like keeping the possibilities open for characters we aren't considering. But I'm currently left wanting for just one or two more fan favorites, as I think that would have provided a better balance, rather than my current feelings that we were pretty ignored.

He's only half wrong. The cycle of wanting characters is never-ending, just... not fan favorites. Every new game that comes out creates fans of a character and every character added to Smash simultaneously creates new fans of a game franchise who begin imagining what other characters from that franchise would be like, as well as makes current fans of that franchise eager to see if the game will get a second representative.

There was definitely a time that the list never ended for deep fan picks. Back in Brawl, the real and true golden age, people's want list was a mile long. Solid mother****ing Snake was in the launch trailer for the game, how couldn't people go wild? But that was fourteen years ago. If we assume that everyone posting on forums in 2006-2007 was actually at least 13 years of age like most web forum terms of service require, those people are at the youngest 27 now. Dunno about you, but I'm getting too old for this ****. Do I still have a lot of characters I think would be cool to see? Hell yeah. Am I going to amass nearly 2.5k posts on a dying webforum defending Django from Boktai's relevance and importance in relation to being included in Smash?

Nah, **** that guy. I have an angel possessed wooden friend that I want to see because I've seen the huge, the unlikely and the distasteful make it into Smash over the last twenty goddamned years and if I see him, I'm shutting up and sticking with him, and I think a lot of people are like that. Ridley and Roolfriends seem to be like this, and Banjo people too. Those picks that have been requested longer than most poisonous Smash kids on Twitter have been alive... their fans are just done with this nonsense and want to rest on their laurels.

Smash, if it continues, will always bring a smile to all of these people's faces, and people who have exactly what they want will naturally still be stoked to see a new character, but it's like being at a restaurant. You looked at the menu and ordered what you want - it was well seasoned and very filling. You're not going to start demanding all the food in the kitchen.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I think it's important to realize when y'all say "there's been no picks that really appeal to the Smash community", you mean there aren't any that appeal to the minority of really hardcore people who've been frequenting online discussion for years.

Steve broke twitter, Sephiroth is perhaps the second most iconic villain in gaming and his trailer is widely regarded as one of the best ever, and Kazuya comes from one of the most iconic and beloved fighting game series ever. Arms and Xenoblade 2 were also two of the most talked about games during the pre-release speculation cycle. To say this pass hasn't been about fan service would be really disingenuous. Just because it's not specifically appealing to you doesn't make it not true.

Even still, this game has been full of long time fan requests. Every veteran, Ridley, K. Rool, Simon, Banjo, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's important to realize when y'all say "there's been no picks that really appeal to the Smash community", you mean there aren't any that appeal to the minority of really hardcore people who've been frequenting online discussion for years.

No one here denies this. Thank you for "Steve broke Twitter" post #24963879^10

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Not sure why people continue to say there are no picks that appeal to the smash community when there's countless examples of picks that have appealed to the smash community

 

[ForsakenM]

I think it's important to realize when y'all say "there's been no picks that really appeal to the Smash community", you mean there aren't any that appeal to the minority of really hardcore people who've been frequenting online discussion for years.

Steve broke twitter, Sephiroth is perhaps the second most iconic villain in gaming and his trailer is widely regarded as one of the best ever, and Kazuya comes from one of the most iconic and beloved fighting game series ever. Arms and Xenoblade 2 were also two of the most talked about games during the pre-release speculation cycle. To say this pass hasn't been about fan service would be really disingenuous. Just because it's not specifically appealing to you doesn't make it not true.

Even still, this game has been full of long time fan requests. Every veteran, Ridley, K. Rool, Simon, Banjo, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus.

Not sure why people continue to say there are no picks that appeal to the smash community when there's countless examples of picks that have appealed to the smash community

This isn't what people or saying, or at least it's not what I have been saying.

I've acknowledged MANY times that Ultimate, especially base game, did and amazing job with it's inclusions.

Here's the point I'm making: out of 10 of 11 DLC characters, only two of them reach the core audience that have been around since the Wii or earlier, those being Hero and B&K.

Steve broke Twitter...cool. Is that because so many Smash fans wanted him, despite his popularity being more recent and not extending to anything prior to Smash 4, of which his demand was incredibly low? Or is it because the default avatar from the most popular game in the world currently got into Nintendo's Star-Studded Slam Fest?

Yes, Sephiroth is amazing and I love his inclusion, but is he still championed as a great pick that people were clamoring for since the Brawl days? No, because so many other Square characters have been introduced since then and Cloud was considered a pipe dream so Sephy never had a chance, and after Cloud people wanted either someone from a different FF or another Square franchise. He no longer represents Brawl-Era requests, lest ye forget that he ranked 79th on the Mega Smash Poll.

I love fighting games and I love Kazuya's inclusion, but much of the community has expressed disappointment and even distain for him. Not only did they not want another fighting game character, he got in over Heihachi who was more popular, AND Lloyd didn't make it. Lloyd IS a Brawl-Era request, and he got passed over, despite still being very much requested to this very day.

ARMS and XBC2 don't even need to be brought up because they could never fit into the Brawl-Era or earlier requests.

Now, think about this: Brawl was in 2008 in the NA. Requests go back to 2006-2007 for Brawl. If you are someone who has been requesting the same character since Brawl Era, you have been asking for that character for 13-15 years and are STILL waiting. Go look at your average 8th Grader/Freshman in Highschool, and realize that some people have been asking for a character in Smash since they were in diapers. That doesn't even compare to folks like myself and MANY many others who have been requesting since Melee or even N64 days, games that came out in 2001 and 1999 respectfully. That is a whole young adult who is college-bound age!

So, when the majority of the characters introduced are from brand new games or series combined with characters people didn't really ask for or are just really popular outside of the Smash community, THIS is why the vitriol starts to spew. This is where people lash out because, in their eyes, the funny block man who wasn't even really asked for save for the past six months or so got in due to sheer marketing reasons and the character they have championed for over a decade gets snubbed because we need a noodle girl from a game that was already dead, another Fire Emblem character no one would have ever asked for, and the son of the character people asked for from a franchise most didn't even want to see get a character.

I love SNK games and Terry and was hype for his inclusion, but the Smash community didn't even know him or his legacy, so I understand them getting upset. I don't agree with them because I value more fresh content even if my boi doesn't get in, but all of FP2 has been outside of the core audience of requests, and if you think that the people who have been around since Brawl or earlier don't make up a huge portion of Ultimate's base...let's just say it's not ALL new players, and Smash never has been since N64

The REAL problem that needs to be discussed is how Sakurai can only put in so many character per game, and since very few of them pull from the Ye Ol' List O' Requests, it seems like the list is ever-growing and that the community is greedy and never satisfied when in reality it's that not even the tip of the iceberg as been scratched since the list really got going in Brawl. If Sakurai could get, like, 10 character from the most requested list in per game, don't you think eventually we would reach a point where the majority of the community would say 'You know, I guess X character would be cool, but I'm not really attached to them and I already got who I wanted, so I'm cool with whoever gets in'?

Pokemon games, at least spin-offs, will never have this problem because they ALWAYS make sure that Gen 1 gets it's place, even to the complaints of 'Too Much Kanto' being a thing, and Gen 2 and Gen 3 both tend to get good representation as well. They don't make it all about the newest Gen because, if they did, there would be a lot of complaints and the game would underperform.

Let me finish this by adding a dash of 'How many people bought FP2 before a single character was revealed, sure that at least one long-term request would make it in' and now they feel like that were robbed of their money with this roster thus far?

You are essentially asking a huge portion of Smash's audience to 'just be happy with the choices' when they have been trying for longer than some people have been alive to get that one character that means a lot to them into the game and have championed them along with hundreds to thousands of others who want that same character when FP2 has done nothing but fix Cloud's content issues and cater to newer players or those outside of Smash.

Just because I can do that doesn't mean others can, and if they feel ignored then why shouldn't they be vocal to attempt to get what they want?

 

[Shroob]

I feel like I've been lucky, since I've been in this race since Brawl, 30 years old myself, and while back then I definitely campaigned hard for characters, Dedede, Diddy and Olimar were 3 characters I desperately wanted, over time, I've just kinda.... mellowed out, I guess. I didn't really support... anyone at all in Smash 4, and for Ultimate, I was wayyy too focused on playing detective with leaks to care about supporting a specific character.


I guess, in a weird way, the DLC is actually really good.... but while it is good, it's not what the hardcore, long-term fanbase wants, which is where the big disconnect happens. If that's a good or bad thing is entirely subjective, and not my place to make judgment. If, and if, this is Sakurai's last Smash game at the helm, it feels like he's trying to make it his absolute legacy game and bring in as much star power as he's able to, and patch any holes that he feels like he missed with the base game, which, I mean, yeah, it definitely feels that way, hell, this wave of DLC a lot of people are calling "2nd chance" because that feeling is soo widespread. That, and there's another point to be touched on in the next paragraph.


I think to me, the moment he said that "Nintendo's choosing the DLC characters", I parked my expectations at the door, and simply accepted that the DLC would go a very certain way, and honestly, I'm not wrong in that regard. 3 Nintendo characters not from legacy titles, but from Switch-era games, more promotional 3rd party characters, and some fringe picks like Terry that personally appeal to him. Don't get me wrong, you got absolute HEAVY hitters like Sephiroth and Steve, but I'll always go "Okay Nintendo, okay" in regards to Hero's main outfit being the DQ11 protagonist and not, ya know, Erdrick... and funny how pushed DQ11s was around his release... funny how that works. Not to discredit Dragon Quest, it's an absolutely monumental series that frankly should have been in sooner, but it's kiiiiinda funny that Erdrick isn't the 'main' outfit.



People who aren't happy with the DLC are 100% valid of course, if you don't like it, don't buy it. I'm 1# in voicing my complaints about Nintendo's ****ty business practices, but at the same time, I kept my DLC expectations extremely in check, and tbh, I haven't been disappointed. And hey, I got Banjo, Sephiroth, and Pythra, 3 characters I adored, and while I wasn't big into traditional fighting games, Terry's a blast to play, so while I aimed low, I still hit a few highs along the way. Granted, that was just me, your mileage may vary.



But at the same time, I think we're 10(11) characters in, and it's kinda obvious that the DLC was never really meant to appeal to the hardcore crowd in the first place. You got Banjo sure, but it feels like the DLC was meant to reach out to new people to bring them in(fresh blood), to keep Ultimate up to date with the Switch's library to a degree(3 Houses, ARMs, XB2), and less so the already established playerbase, which is probably what they banked the base game to do with characters like Ridley, K.Rool, Simon, Dark Samus, Daisy, etc. If you think that's a bad thing, you're entitled to that opinion, just as you are if you think that's a good thing, there's no wrong answer here.


tl;dr: There's no real right or wrong answer here, both sides are valid in their beliefs/complaints, and both sides should be given the respect they deserve, as long as things remain civil.


Truthfully speaking, any "hardcore" fan should have been ****ting their pants when Sakurai said Nintendo was picking the DLC, and yeah, it definitely feels that way.

 

[Dan]

ForsakenM is always on the money. My thought on the current discussion is I feel the roster should primarily be ballot with a few outliers that the team/Nintendo decided on... pretty much the inverse of what they're doing now. Smash is a game by the fans, for the fans. We are the ones responsible for these franchises being popular enough to conglomerate into this game. People always say the community will never been satisfied; we would be - the requested picks are just few and far between.

I find myself wondering if any JRPG is actually "difficult" since they all can be easily beaten by grinding for hours on end and looking up or formulating winning strategies. Difficulty from these games typically resides in actually figuring out how to best use the mechanics (or, to bring up SaGa Frontier again, actually figuring out how the mechanics even work). I get the vibe of what you're saying here, the game isn't hard because it doesn't ask you to grind too much and is focused on helping you experience the story. Big part of why I loved it so much as a kid was the (at the time revolutionary) concept of being able to avoid battles.

It's good for kids, which is what they were ultimately designed for (at least SMRPG) at the end of the day. I must've first played it when I was about 3 and could not beat Croco, but then learned to read and read the guide so knew you had to "tan his hide" (will always remember this line lol) with Fire Orb. And then I continued to play the game for what felt like years: I remember getting stuck at the Axem Rangers, and Czar Dragon also providing a bit of a tough fight. I even think I once had a bugged save file where the wedding cake was unbeatable.

But even back then, I'm not sure I knew that the Axem Rangers or Czar Dragon would've easily been beatable just by grinding, and that's where the challenge was.

There was definitely a time that the list never ended for deep fan picks. Back in Brawl, the real and true golden age, people's want list was a mile long. Solid mother*ing Snake was in the launch trailer for the game, how couldn't people go wild? But that was fourteen years ago. If we assume that everyone posting on forums in 2006-2007 was actually at least 13 years of age like most web forum terms of service require, those people are at the youngest 27 now. Dunno about you, but I'm getting too old for this *. Do I still have a lot of characters I think would be cool to see? Hell yeah. Am I going to amass nearly 2.5k posts on a dying webforum defending Django from Boktai's relevance and importance in relation to being included in Smash?

Yeah, I'm exactly 27 lol.

Let me finish this by adding a dash of 'How many people bought FP2 before a single character was revealed, sure that at least one long-term request would make it in' and now they feel like that were robbed of their money with this roster thus far?

I think I still would've bought it even though the end-product sucked, just for completion-sake.

 

[S1itchey]

This isn't what people or saying, or at least it's not what I have been saying.

I've acknowledged MANY times that Ultimate, especially base game, did and amazing job with it's inclusions.

Here's the point I'm making: out of 10 of 11 DLC characters, only two of them reach the core audience that have been around since the Wii or earlier, those being Hero and B&K.

Steve broke Twitter...cool. Is that because so many Smash fans wanted him, despite his popularity being more recent and not extending to anything prior to Smash 4, of which his demand was incredibly low? Or is it because the default avatar from the most popular game in the world currently got into Nintendo's Star-Studded Slam Fest?

Yes, Sephiroth is amazing and I love his inclusion, but is he still championed as a great pick that people were clamoring for since the Brawl days? No, because so many other Square characters have been introduced since then and Cloud was considered a pipe dream so Sephy never had a chance, and after Cloud people wanted either someone from a different FF or another Square franchise. He no longer represents Brawl-Era requests, lest ye forget that he ranked 79th on the Mega Smash Poll.

I love fighting games and I love Kazuya's inclusion, but much of the community has expressed disappointment and even distain for him. Not only did they not want another fighting game character, he got in over Heihachi who was more popular, AND Lloyd didn't make it. Lloyd IS a Brawl-Era request, and he got passed over, despite still being very much requested to this very day.

ARMS and XBC2 don't even need to be brought up because they could never fit into the Brawl-Era or earlier requests.

Now, think about this: Brawl was in 2008 in the NA. Requests go back to 2006-2007 for Brawl. If you are someone who has been requesting the same character since Brawl Era, you have been asking for that character for 13-15 years and are STILL waiting. Go look at your average 8th Grader/Freshman in Highschool, and realize that some people have been asking for a character in Smash since they were in diapers. That doesn't even compare to folks like myself and MANY many others who have been requesting since Melee or even N64 days, games that came out in 2001 and 1999 respectfully. That is a whole young adult who is college-bound age!

So, when the majority of the characters introduced are from brand new games or series combined with characters people didn't really ask for or are just really popular outside of the Smash community, THIS is why the vitriol starts to spew. This is where people lash out because, in their eyes, the funny block man who wasn't even really asked for save for the past six months or so got in due to sheer marketing reasons and the character they have championed for over a decade gets snubbed because we need a noodle girl from a game that was already dead, another Fire Emblem character no one would have ever asked for, and the son of the character people asked for from a franchise most didn't even want to see get a character.

I love SNK games and Terry and was hype for his inclusion, but the Smash community didn't even know him or his legacy, so I understand them getting upset. I don't agree with them because I value more fresh content even if my boi doesn't get in, but all of FP2 has been outside of the core audience of requests, and if you think that the people who have been around since Brawl or earlier don't make up a huge portion of Ultimate's base...let's just say it's not ALL new players, and Smash never has been since N64

The REAL problem that needs to be discussed is how Sakurai can only put in so many character per game, and since very few of them pull from the Ye Ol' List O' Requests, it seems like the list is ever-growing and that the community is greedy and never satisfied when in reality it's that not even the tip of the iceberg as been scratched since the list really got going in Brawl. If Sakurai could get, like, 10 character from the most requested list in per game, don't you think eventually we would reach a point where the majority of the community would say 'You know, I guess X character would be cool, but I'm not really attached to them and I already got who I wanted, so I'm cool with whoever gets in'?

Pokemon games, at least spin-offs, will never have this problem because they ALWAYS make sure that Gen 1 gets it's place, even to the complaints of 'Too Much Kanto' being a thing, and Gen 2 and Gen 3 both tend to get good representation as well. They don't make it all about the newest Gen because, if they did, there would be a lot of complaints and the game would underperform.

Let me finish this by adding a dash of 'How many people bought FP2 before a single character was revealed, sure that at least one long-term request would make it in' and now they feel like that were robbed of their money with this roster thus far?

You are essentially asking a huge portion of Smash's audience to 'just be happy with the choices' when they have been trying for longer than some people have been alive to get that one character that means a lot to them into the game and have championed them along with hundreds to thousands of others who want that same character when FP2 has done nothing but fix Cloud's content issues and cater to newer players or those outside of Smash.

Just because I can do that doesn't mean others can, and if they feel ignored then why shouldn't they be vocal to attempt to get what they want?

This is exactly how I feel. Base game did a good job at appealing to both hardcore and new fans. Dlc has done nothing to appeal to people from the melee and brawl days aside from banjo and maybe hero. I'll admit that I'm much younger than most people here but as a kid I liked watching videos on people asking for their requests for smash and that's why I value characters like k. Rool, Ridley, banjo, Simon etc so much more than Steve or joker. I know people have waited decades to get these characters in. So dlc being so one sided to newer or less fan requested characters is really disappointing. Smash has never really been that big on appealing to all the big fan requests no matter what but ultimate came around and it seemed like it was going to be the game that did that. Ridley set that up really well as sakurias comments on him in the past made him seem like an impossibility.

But then dlc came around and they **** on all of that. Sure we got banjo but that's really it. Geno, lloyd, Dixie kong. Nope screw you, MIN MIN, SEPHIROTH, BYLETH, PYRA AND MYTHRA. YOU WAITED YEARS FOR YOUR CHARACTER TO FINALLY GET THE ONCE IN A LIFETIME CHNCE THAT IS SMASH BROS ULTIMATE. TOO ****ING BAD. you get a mii costume again.

I just feel like I wasted so much effort for geno or whoever to get into smash just for it to not happen because the execs at nintnedo just dont care.