Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

[Enigma735]

Are those, like, character cards or something? That's pretty sick!

Yep, these were cards that Nintendo Power released years ago, and I gladly got my hands on them.

 

[Deleted member]

Good to see the Genobros keeping the support going.

Geno might be out this game but never give up he will arrive in Smash someday.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

Just as a what if sort of thing, let's imagine for a minute, if the Nintendo-Square falling out never happened, or if Nintendo had actually bought the rights for Mallow and Geno.

Would they still be left behind to gather dust like Wart and Stanley, or would fan demand have been enough for them to be revitalized, and brought back in a grandiose way like Pauline?

 

[ivanlerma]

Just as a what if sort of thing, let's imagine for a minute, if the Nintendo-Square falling out never happened, or if Nintendo had actually bought the rights for Mallow and Geno.

Would they still be left behind to gather dust like Wart and Stanley, or would fan demand have been enough for them to be revitalized, and brought back in a grandiose way like Pauline?

Perhaps they could use them again if enough fan demand came up

Though they'd most likely leave them in with other mario characters not shown in reality, just a hunch.

 

[StrangeKitten]

You don't see much of the characters from the first Paper Mario. Maybe it would be a different story if the cast was recurring, but still, it would hardly surprise me to see Geno thrown to the wayside had Nintendo and Square not fallen out. Though, that is thinking about it from a "Nintendo's poor handling of Paper Mario" mindset, while Square's over here still honoring Cloud and Sephiroth because they come from their most popular game. So I could see Geno getting a lot of love if Square was still involved.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You don't see much of the characters from the first Paper Mario. Maybe it would be a different story if the cast was recurring, but still, it would hardly surprise me to see Geno thrown to the wayside had Nintendo and Square not fallen out. Though, that is thinking about it from a "Nintendo's poor handling of Paper Mario" mindset, while Square's over here still honoring Cloud and Sephiroth because they come from their most popular game. So I could see Geno getting a lot of love if Square was still involved.

It's not so much Paper Mario as a mandate across much of the series. The only games that got away with reusing characters were Sports, Party, and Kart, at best. The rest were either recurring mooks who aren't named characters in the same way, or they made new ones per game. Even before this, Mario Party kept introducing new NPC's, almost essentially being the predecessor to the idea.

Though yeah, if SE didn't full out with Nintendo, we probably would have a very active Geno(among others). Worth noting is that Paper Mario may still have happened if lucky, but it was meant to be based upon Mario's rpg design first and foremost. Mario & Luigi might've been the only other rpg series at that point.

Though do keep in mind that Paper Mario sells massively still to this day, as players do like the way the series has gone. It's completely mixed, as it still has tons of new players who enjoy the new style of RPG that isn't really about the same kind of grinding as before(in fact, the games border on anti-grinding, handing things out a lot easier). The reality is, RPG's have fallen out a lot just due to the fact you need to grind experience. Some even hate Turn-Based in itself(which is silly, since, honestly, that's very different if not actually good for people to learn strategy/think before they act). Either way, the old style is popular, but not among all new players. They just failed to make a new countergame since Mario & Luigi died, to please the other set of players. We have regular Action RPG fans who love the new Paper Mario(worth noting that they began to fix the story/dialogue after Sticker Star's too). We don't have the classic JRPG fans satisfied, on the other hand.

The problem is Nintendo can't just please one. And they can't ignore only new players. They aren't banking just no nostalgia, after all. They want to expand it to tons of new players too. Having a different style isn't bad on its own. But not having the old style(Mario & Luigi doesn't perfectly cover it, but it's the classic genre) is a problem too. I mean, at least there's lots of games out there that cover classic turn-based JRPG on the Switch now, including Pokemon, so maybe that relates to them not worry about M&L. That, and M&L kept trying to innovate a lot faster than Paper Mario did. PM didn't massively do a formula change outside of SPM. While the experience isn't completely there anymore in PM, it still has the core battle system, though changed to remove traditional partners. You could argue the lack of Partners is a massive change, though, but it does resemble the classic gameplay outside of one game, regardless. I am not saying this is "good enough" of course. That said, while M&L kind of kept the core gameplay, the gimmicks with the unique buttons per character go so out of control it became hard to do the mini-games and they weren't able to much innovate after a while. There was nothing to add anymore, especially as it was designed for handhelds, not consoles(Switch could go do both, kind of), but it kept changing to use the Touch Screen so much that you have trouble keeping up. Then the developers... if I remember right, went bankrupt.

It's an annoying complicated mess. And yes, I would love classic PM gameplay back too, for the record. And I mean all of it. I didn't care if my partners had HP or not. But the lack of Badges was so silly, especially when they were super cool(and admittedly got broken at times like with the Danger Mario setup). The fact they aren't doing so is simply because the sales are massively good for the latest PM stuff. It didn't help they at first weakened the story due to them asking the wrong question(do you like story in Mario games?) instead of... specifying the rpg's. However, Miyamoto played a small role in telling them to stop using all new characters(build off the regular cast), and would prefer if they tried to make it less like TTYD. The developers notably didn't have to follow the second thing(though let's be real, they didn't technically have a choice) and came up with a bad inventory system and concept of one-off use Stickers. Removing experience points in SS(it came back in CS, though got removed again in TOK) wasn't met well, but that's also cause the game was a bit too much of a case of unbalanced/bad areas, inventory being a pain at times, running out of Stickers, and too many guide dang it moments. CS and TOK are fixing some issues, but the sales show that it more or less isn't a poor handling so much as "there's going to be fans of the series who just aren't interested", at least with what's actually happening.

You could see the fanbase as the split between Melee and later Smash games. Changes just aren't going to cut it for some, no matter if the games are good or not. Sales won't matter, etc. That's similar to what is happening with Paper Mario.

 

[Vector Victor]

Dry Bowser spirit battle popped up, so I decided to get him using Geno spirit and Geno Gunner. Almost about to lose when my final smash gauge filled up, finished him off with a big ass Geno Beam.

 

[Deleted member]

Just as a what if sort of thing, let's imagine for a minute, if the Nintendo-Square falling out never happened, or if Nintendo had actually bought the rights for Mallow and Geno.

Would they still be left behind to gather dust like Wart and Stanley, or would fan demand have been enough for them to be revitalized, and brought back in a grandiose way like Pauline?

Wart and Stanley are pretty bad comparisons, imo. I'm willing to bet that few people would know that Stanley exists if it weren't for Melee's trophy of the guy - he's in the same boat as the weird human characters from the GBC/GBA Mario Tennis games. Go ahead and name all of those nobodies without looking them up on a Wiki.

Wart's a bit different since Shy Guys and Snifits managed to survive the (literal) nightmare that is the question of if Super Mario Bros 2 really even counts as a Mario title...

Spoiler: I had to do it to 'em

I'd argue that because they were reused in the chronologically first game in the series, Yoshi's Island, their appearance in a dream (in their weird squat forms) makes them a canon memory, altered by the fact that mainline Mario has not seen them since he was a loud, crying baby. They've only shown up in mainline Yoshi titles since and have bled over into Mario sports and RPG titles. Wart on the other hand, along with the other bosses, never showed up outside of Mario Bros 2, all of which can be considered some sort of dream representation of Bowser.

My own speculation regarding this mystical universe in which Nintendo owns characters made for use in a game starring and named after their intellectual property is to compare Geno and Mallow to the Koopalings, who took an extended leave of absence after Super Mario World and were even seemingly outright replaced by Bowser Jr and that weird Baby Bowser character from Mario Party. Boomer fan demand brought them back, and in such force that I've seen genuine gripes that they're overused (which they never will be).

However, given that Geno was popular enough to be a known request for a Smash game all the way back in 1999-2000, I think he was fresh enough at the time to have, given complete Nintendo ownership, been a contender for Smash 64's roster and definitely would have made it into Melee. That boost of popularity would have more than likely seen him included as a character in Mario Party and Mario Sports titles almost every game, if he had not been put in them already.

Actually, and not to sound too crazy here, but... Since Paper Mario was initially Mario RPG 2 and specifically was just aiming for a Super Mario World style and not a "paper" aesthetic so much, and given that Twink really seems like he could have at one point been Geno, I think that this world in which Geno is wholly Nintendo owned would have had a more unified Mario RPG portion of the franchise, in which we wouldn't be making a differentiation between Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi styles of RPG. In some true butterfly effect type ****, I think the ownership of Geno would change how Nintendo has managed Mario as a franchise.

Can't speak for Mallow though because he wasn't anywhere near as popular back in the day because little boys like rad Geno and hate crybaby Mallow so lmao rip.

 

[Icewolff92]

So what is everyone's thought on the Activision Blizzard lawsuit? Quite frankly, it kinda makes me hope that Crash isn´t the last if I´m being honest :/ F that company

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

Absolutely sickening.

 

[Firox]

So what is everyone's thought on the Activision Blizzard lawsuit? Quite frankly, it kinda makes me hope that Crash isn´t the last if I´m being honest :/ F that company

Honestly, why is the gaming community so jam packed with perverse, degenerate pieces of human feces? Such a disgrace.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Honestly, why is the gaming community so jam packed with perverse, degenerate pieces of human feces? Such a disgrace.

Someone fill me in, I'm missing context

 

[Megadoomer]

Someone fill me in, I'm missing context

Long story short, Activision has a terrible workplace culture.

 

[Firox]

Someone fill me in, I'm missing context

I was referencing the scandal/lawsuit of Activision/Blizzard. Apparently, there has been rampant sexual harassment going on over there with many of the devs/game testers going to work drunk and soliciting female coworkers for illicit favors. One woman was alleged to have taken her own life due to the level of harassment that the management has allowed to go on without recourse. Looks like HR tried to cover up the abuse and whatnot. When you look at stuff like this and the other crap that's gone on in the Smash community, for example, it just makes me lament why so much of gaming culture is inundated with this crap. It makes the rest of the world think that gamers are nothing but a bunch of drunken, porn-addicted fratboys (which I certainly hope is not the case).

Long story short, Activision has a terrible workplace culture.

Thanks, Megadoomer. That was much more succinct.

 

[ivanlerma]

So what is everyone's thought on the Activision Blizzard lawsuit? Quite frankly, it kinda makes me hope that Crash isn´t the last if I´m being honest :/ F that company

I wonder if Crash & Spyro will be passed over to another company in case Activision gets force to go bankrupt after their lawsuit or lose the rights to those characters if they lose the lawsuit.

 

[CannonStreak]

I wonder if Crash & Spyro will be passed over to another company in case Activision gets force to go bankrupt after their lawsuit or lose the rights to those characters if they lose the lawsuit.

I don't think it will be that simple, as I am sure Activision has made a lot of money over the years, despite their questionable methods and all.

 

[Icewolff92]

I don't think it will be that simple, as I am sure Activision has made a lot of money over the years, despite their questionable methods and all.

No matter if they are or not, it certainly doesn´t look good for them. Especially when one of the big things have now been confirmed https://kotaku.com/inside-blizzard-...utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=twitter

 

[CannonStreak]

No matter if they are or not, it certainly doesn´t look good for them. Especially when one of the big things have now been confirmed https://kotaku.com/inside-blizzard-...utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=twitter

Wow, that is deep. Activision Blizzard is in for some big trouble here.

 

[Icewolff92]

Wow, that is deep. Activision Blizzard is in for some big trouble here.

That's an understatement

 

[CannonStreak]

That's an understatement

A pile of the worst kind of poo there is, whatever that may be and worse?

 

[Vector Victor]

So Nintendo backed out of the opening to the Olympics. And we know that various video game songs were played. They played Chrono Trigger music, which was unexpected. But do you think the absence of SMRPG music, especially after knowing the fan demand for either Geno in Smash or SMRPG going on the NSO service, was because the SMRPG is under Nintendo's name, not Square?

 

[SSGuy]

So Nintendo backed out of the opening to the Olympics. And we know that various video game songs were played. They played Chrono Trigger music, which was unexpected. But do you think the absence of SMRPG music, especially after knowing the fan demand for either Geno in Smash or SMRPG going on the NSO service, was because the SMRPG is under Nintendo's name, not Square?

Was it originally planned to include Super Mario RPG music or is it just speculation because Square Enix/Yoko had several songs she has composed in the opening ceremonies.

Regardless, I think it's the right call to pull out of the Olympics. Covid kind of cursed this year's games.

 

[ForsakenM]

Was it originally planned to include Super Mario RPG music or is it just speculation because Square Enix/Yoko had several songs she has composed in the opening ceremonies.

Regardless, I think it's the right call to pull out of the Olympics. Covid kind of cursed this year's games.

Current society cursed this year's games. You can look at it from either way with COVID, but viewership at home was down more than it ever has been, which is something a lot of big events like NFL and others are experiencing, and it's not COVID stopping people from watching on their sofas. To remain neutral, it's a shift in Fortune 500 pandering that has little to due with the activity they are hosting that is causing the decline. Regardless of what you believe or don't, people want to watch what they came to watch and not drama spectacles started by the rich elite or advertisements that aren't even about their product or occasionally insult the viewer.

However, the shift in interest what with the takeover of anime and manga in the West and streaming platforms kicking butt has a part to play in this as well. Not only are you pushing away your consumer, but there are more interesting alternatives out there. There is also just a massive decrease in interest in our own culture, probably something to do with people being incredibly divisive here in the states. This doesn't speak for viewership drop in other countries though.
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My take on the Activision-Blizzard stuff is that it's incredibly awful, but y'all need to stop acting like gaming is the one pushing this idea of sexual harassment being okay. People are corrupt and in many different places, not just gaming. Also, understand that companies like that have changed very little over time, back from a time when gaming was a male-dominated field in both workforce and consumer, of which that likely is still a majority.

Also, consider that gaming used to be grouping together at someone's house, but much like the internet itself, playing online leads to anonymity which allows horrible people to express this toxicity without restraint or repercussion. This isn't an excuse for bad behavior, merely analyzing where in the gaming community it can stem from.

Also, never forget that things can be untrue or grey instead of black/white. Remember when the majority of the community wrote off Nario but kept supporting Zero for a while? Turns out Zero had done more wrong and Nairo was blackmailed into a situation where he just lost either way. Can't know all the truth until we get there. This could get even worse by the time it's over, or maybe some things will turn out false in the end. We just don't know until we get there.

Also, don't punish a character because of their company. Acting as if you don't want Crash, a character that is owned but not created by Activision, simply over this means you are incapable of making basic separation and is unfair to Crash fans, as you are essentially acting like Crash himself in some way is guilty.

 

[S1itchey]

Current society cursed this year's games. You can look at it from either way with COVID, but viewership at home was down more than it ever has been, which is something a lot of big events like NFL and others are experiencing, and it's not COVID stopping people from watching on their sofas. To remain neutral, it's a shift in Fortune 500 pandering that has little to due with the activity they are hosting that is causing the decline. Regardless of what you believe or don't, people want to watch what they came to watch and not drama spectacles started by the rich elite or advertisements that aren't even about their product or occasionally insult the viewer.

However, the shift in interest what with the takeover of anime and manga in the West and streaming platforms kicking butt has a part to play in this as well. Not only are you pushing away your consumer, but there are more interesting alternatives out there. There is also just a massive decrease in interest in our own culture, probably something to do with people being incredibly divisive here in the states. This doesn't speak for viewership drop in other countries though.
-------------------------------------------------------------
My take on the Activision-Blizzard stuff is that it's incredibly awful, but y'all need to stop acting like gaming is the one pushing this idea of sexual harassment being okay. People are corrupt and in many different places, not just gaming. Also, understand that companies like that have changed very little over time, back from a time when gaming was a male-dominated field in both workforce and consumer, of which that likely is still a majority.

Also, consider that gaming used to be grouping together at someone's house, but much like the internet itself, playing online leads to anonymity which allows horrible people to express this toxicity without restraint or repercussion. This isn't an excuse for bad behavior, merely analyzing where in the gaming community it can stem from.

Also, never forget that things can be untrue or grey instead of black/white. Remember when the majority of the community wrote off Nario but kept supporting Zero for a while? Turns out Zero had done more wrong and Nairo was blackmailed into a situation where he just lost either way. Can't know all the truth until we get there. This could get even worse by the time it's over, or maybe some things will turn out false in the end. We just don't know until we get there.

Also, don't punish a character because of their company. Acting as if you don't want Crash, a character that is owned but not created by Activision, simply over this means you are incapable of making basic separation and is unfair to Crash fans, as you are essentially acting like Crash himself in some way is guilty.

Just wanted to add on to the crash for smash argument that crash was developed by naughty dog originally not Activision. They may own him now but crash is still a naughty dog creation. Activision doing alot of bad stuff shouldn't have any barring on people's opinions on crash for smash.

 

[Vector Victor]

Before all this, Crash was getting backlash similarly like Geno: he was a common name in speculation and people started getting sick of it (because some people find the speculation much more important than the actual game itself and just want to discuss names. If a name is frequent enough, they turn on that character).

Then discussion fell into the same trap again: people were tired of a common request, then started complaining about that request more than the supporters advocating them, which then annoyed them further and made them full on detractors, who would continue to complain about said character, thus dominating discussion, which would have the general fanbase then blame on the supporters for flooding/derailing speculation despite the detractors being the ones who were going overboard with the request.

Also, there is a on/off wave of anti-90s mentality going through the general Smash fanbase where 90s characters get much more resentment targeted towards them, accusing them of over saturating the roster despite the 80s having the clear majority.

 

[Chalphy]

The allegations against Activision-Blizzard are very serious. It's not unreasonable for people to feel that adding Crash or any other character from AB would not be appropriate. Giving money to the institution responsible for this, through DLC sales and licensing would obviously leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

 

[osby]

Also, there is a on/off wave of anti-90s mentality going through the general Smash fanbase where 90s characters get much more resentment targeted towards them, accusing them of over saturating the roster despite the 80s having the clear majority.

The 80s have 25 fighters while the 90s have 29.

I don't think that counts as one side having a clear majority but if one has an upper hand, it's the 90s.

 

[Geno Boost]

i made this for my birthday today

 

[Megadoomer]

The allegations against Activision-Blizzard are very serious. It's not unreasonable for people to feel that adding Crash or any other character from AB would not be appropriate. Giving money to the institution responsible for this, through DLC sales and licensing would obviously leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

In all likelihood, whoever decided on Smash's DLC characters wouldn't have been aware of this 2+ years ago, when the DLC was decided on.

 

[Chalphy]

In all likelihood, whoever decided on Smash's DLC characters wouldn't have been aware of this 2+ years ago, when the DLC was decided on.

Of course, but as consumers that isn't relevant to discussions today. What matters more, justice for the victims, or getting a character in Smash Bros.?

 

[S1itchey]

Of course, but as consumers that isn't relevant to discussions today. What matters more, justice for the victims, or getting a character in Smash Bros.?

Crash getting into smash doesn't mean that the victims won't be taken seriously or anything I think it's unfair that the ****ty actions of a company should keep any character from being added to smash of that character wasn't originally created or owned by said company. Crash is important to alot of people. He's an iconic 90s character and many people would like to see him In smash. People respect the game and the character not the company. Should all Crash supporters have to stop supporting him even if they don't agree with what Activision did?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Of course, but as consumers that isn't relevant to discussions today. What matters more, justice for the victims, or getting a character in Smash Bros.?

They aren't going to change the character that's already paid for because of an event that happens well after everything was figured out.

It's an unfortunate thing, but it won't affect Smash development. Now, if this happened while they were negotiating? Absolutely it's something they'd take into account.

Timing matters here. And always will. As it's not some game they can cancel(which also means many employees don't get paid, so overall it's still a bad response in the end) or delay to let things cool down(somewhat better than cancelling). Likewise, boycotting doesn't hurt companies nearly as much as the employees. Often they aren't willing to break either. They just keep up the horrid practices as long as they can get the sales. Otherwise? Bankruptcy. Boycotting is a lot less effective than people think, unfortunately.

And that's where the issue lies here; how do you boycott an entire pass most people paid for? You don't. Few people bought things individually. And some still just care more about the character than the company. Smash is driven on characters, after all.

It's not that your point is bad, but if you ignore the actual timing factor, you ignore a good reason why what you're asking for is massively unrealistic. It's not some "justice" factor. That's great, and I always support doing the right thing. But it's not as simple as you think it is. It's always complicated. It's way too late to completely change plans like these, without creating an even bigger problem. Now Sakurai suddenly has to go through a whole new licensing period, is very unlikely to get the character out on time(so that means 2022, which will be a big problem for the fans too), is going to cause Nintendo to have to alter tons of plans, will cause massive complaints about the companies lying. It's not worth it. The realistic thing is; the character goes as planned, with at most, a delay to let things cool down.

What they can do? Allow anyone who bought it individually to get their money back. Maybe give something small to those who bought the pass if they want it. I dunno. Maybe a Nintendo card for, say, 10 dollars(lowest they can go, I think?). About the same price. It does cost Nintendo more, but it's about as much as they can do without creating a huge blowup, which is the best move they can make within the current situation as it is. Try to reimburse people. They've done this before, and it has been reasonably effective.

 

[ForsakenM]

They aren't going to change the character that's already paid for because of an event that happens well after everything was figured out.

It's an unfortunate thing, but it won't affect Smash development. Now, if this happened while they were negotiating? Absolutely it's something they'd take into account.

Timing matters here. And always will. As it's not some game they can cancel(which also means many employees don't get paid, so overall it's still a bad response in the end) or delay to let things cool down(somewhat better than cancelling). Likewise, boycotting doesn't hurt companies nearly as much as the employees. Often they aren't willing to break either. They just keep up the horrid practices as long as they can get the sales. Otherwise? Bankruptcy. Boycotting is a lot less effective than people think, unfortunately.

And that's where the issue lies here; how do you boycott an entire pass most people paid for? You don't. Few people bought things individually. And some still just care more about the character than the company. Smash is driven on characters, after all.

It's not that your point is bad, but if you ignore the actual timing factor, you ignore a good reason why what you're asking for is massively unrealistic. It's not some "justice" factor. That's great, and I always support doing the right thing. But it's not as simple as you think it is. It's always complicated. It's way too late to completely change plans like these, without creating an even bigger problem. Now Sakurai suddenly has to go through a whole new licensing period, is very unlikely to get the character out on time(so that means 2022, which will be a big problem for the fans too), is going to cause Nintendo to have to alter tons of plans, will cause massive complaints about the companies lying. It's not worth it. The realistic thing is; the character goes as planned, with at most, a delay to let things cool down.

What they can do? Allow anyone who bought it individually to get their money back. Maybe give something small to those who bought the pass if they want it. I dunno. Maybe a Nintendo card for, say, 10 dollars(lowest they can go, I think?). About the same price. It does cost Nintendo more, but it's about as much as they can do without creating a huge blowup, which is the best move they can make within the current situation as it is. Try to reimburse people. They've done this before, and it has been reasonably effective.

Don't be misleading about the affects of a boycott. It works wonders when done correctly, because the company loses money and gets nothing but bad press. Other than Activision-Blizzard, BHVR (the Dead By Daylight devs) are being currently affected by a boycott and it's already done a small amount of good in a short time. Being bought by China and shoveling out monetized products, they game is a buggy dumpster fire and they just seem to not care, but not making money off of a significant portion of their playerbase and having the boycott backed by many content creators and magically content has already started to get some delays to make sure it's properly tested before release, and this boycott has like two more months to go.

I get that it hurts the workers we care about, but hurting the rich suits that make the crappy decisions to make things better for them is important, and the only way to do that with a company is to stop giving them your money on a wide scale since big companies tend to not listen to anything else.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Don't be misleading about the affects of a boycott. It works wonders when done correctly, because the company loses money and gets nothing but bad press. Other than Activision-Blizzard, BHVR (the Dead By Daylight devs) are being currently affected by a boycott and it's already done a small amount of good in a short time. Being bought by China and shoveling out monetized products, they game is a buggy dumpster fire and they just seem to not care, but not making money off of a significant portion of their playerbase and having the boycott backed by many content creators and magically content has already started to get some delays to make sure it's properly tested before release, and this boycott has like two more months to go.

I get that it hurts the workers we care about, but hurting the rich suits that make the crappy decisions to make things better for them is important, and the only way to do that with a company is to stop giving them your money on a wide scale since big companies tend to not listen to anything else.

I was talking about the quality of how the workers are treated.

Boycotting actually has helped that? Got some examples? I don't care about game quality here, and it wasn't among anything I implied. I don't consider half the games that come out even remotely bad, because I don't have high standards anyway. Some of the so-called worst games I couldn't dare to call worse than "mediocre" in the end. There's a difference to me between unplayable entirely and "definitely needs more polish".

But I won't much go into that. Unless these boycotts do more than simply make sure the hours are better, they ain't doing it enough. What matters most is the employees are treated right. Including more hours is a small portion of that.

I also don't go about as some "rich suits" thing. Not my shtick. I don't try to stick it to the man either. I don't find that fruitful alone. Want to fix some rich issues? Tax them appropriately. Other stuff is more around abusive behavior that needs fixing, not simply "getting better games out", a minor thing to me. I care about worker quality, not game quality. Simple as that. So you should be able to provide boycott examples where the rules were forcefully changed to avoid worker abuse. If not, then your point means nothing to what I'm actually talking about.

 

[Chalphy]

Crash getting into smash doesn't mean that the victims won't be taken seriously or anything I think it's unfair that the ****ty actions of a company should keep any character from being added to smash of that character wasn't originally created or owned by said company. Crash is important to alot of people. He's an iconic 90s character and many people would like to see him In smash. People respect the game and the character not the company. Should all Crash supporters have to stop supporting him even if they don't agree with what Activision did?

Real talk, I do think people need to stop supporting Activision-Blizzard characters in general if they sincerely support the victims of the accusations. This isn't just a couple bad actors, the institution of Activision-Blizzard was protecting the perpetrators, you can't want them held to account, but also want to give them money at the same time. They should take their frustration out on Activision, not those who want them held to account.

They aren't going to change the character that's already paid for because of an event that happens well after everything was figured out.

It's an unfortunate thing, but it won't affect Smash development. Now, if this happened while they were negotiating? Absolutely it's something they'd take into account.

Of course they're not going to change the character, I never suggested that was case. If you already bought the pass and Crash or any other Activision character was chosen, I recognize that there's nothing you can do about that. But in the realm of character discussion/speculation, there are things the community can do. As fans, we have the ability to say, "This is not acceptable", and shun discussion of characters from Activision. I know a guy who is super hardcore into Crash, and when the news broke, he had the class to put people before his favourite character.

This applies to Ubisoft as well, considering they've shown no willingness to address the issues they've faced, instead just giving lip service to change.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Real talk, I do think people need to stop supporting Activision-Blizzard characters in general if they sincerely support the victims of the accusations. This isn't just a couple bad actors, the institution of Activision-Blizzard was protecting the perpetrators, you can't want them held to account, but also want to give them money at the same time. They should take their frustration out on Activision, not those who want them held to account.

I'll keep this short and sweet;

You don't have any right to tell them they're insincere for supporting Crash in Smash and for supporting the victims. They can actually be exclusive or do both together. Maybe some don't actually care. Maybe some do. You don't know because you're making a giant assumption of the fanbase. That's not a legitimate point to make when you get down to the core of it. If you want to convince people, don't dismiss their feelings. Ever.

Of course they're not going to change the character, I never suggested that was case. If you already bought the pass and Crash or any other Activision character was chosen, I recognize that there's nothing you can do about that. But in the realm of character discussion/speculation, there are things the community can do. As fans, we have the ability to say, "This is not acceptable", and shun discussion of characters from Activision. I know a guy who is super hardcore into Crash, and when the news broke, he had the class to put people before his favourite character.

This applies to Ubisoft as well, considering they've shown no willingness to address the issues they've faced, instead just giving lip service to change.

And as fans, people are going to support the characters because they don't care about the company being paid while still having sympathy for the victims. Again, you're the one assuming they're insincere, so that's on you, not them. Some don't even know about the victims. It's completely reasonable that someone changed their mind due to the information. Just as it's completely reasonable for people just caring about the Smash portion while not liking Activision-Blizzard. They aren't mutually exclusive, after all.

I support tons of characters. I'm going to continue to support the character for Smash regardless, because that's who I care about. I still have lots of sympathy for victims of course. I've been a victim of bullies and what is clearly work-related abuse before. Of course I care about that. I just can't... really do anything that helps anyway. I don't even play the Crash games anymore, so you could say I did boycott them. I never bought one(a phone of mine came in with one). I'm in a Smash fan project where Crash is already in the game(already announced, so it's not a developer's secret, respectively. I'm not going to give away any secrets, after all, heh. NDA of course. But also, cause I respect my team), but I'm not going to go to my team and try to force the character out because of what a company did. That isn't helpful there. It doesn't mean I don't sincerely have sympathy for the victims. I just have no way to literally support them with more than I'm already doing. A petition? I'll glad sign that if it comes up. That's all I can do, when I'm not somebody who can throw money around either. I don't have much to spend in general, and can't dedicate my life to helping others while basically making it so I'm not allowed to have a life. Hopefully you get what I'm saying here. People can multi-task as well as support others in voice alone. That's fine. Is it as useful? No. Because unfortunately, some things are more useful than others. But that doesn't mean it's insincere either.

I'm not going to continue this anymore(mostly cause this has nothing to do with Geno, but I do not like being told that I or others lack sincerity because they don't follow your personal beliefs to a tee). That's not cool. What I can say is that if you want to convince people to help you, find a better argument than downplaying legit supporters.

 

[Dan]

i made this for my birthday today

Do you have anymore stuff like this? This is tremendous.

 

[Geno Boost]

Do you have anymore stuff like this? This is tremendous.

this i guess

Spoiler

 

[StrangeKitten]

Real talk, I do think people need to stop supporting Activision-Blizzard characters in general if they sincerely support the victims of the accusations. This isn't just a couple bad actors, the institution of Activision-Blizzard was protecting the perpetrators, you can't want them held to account, but also want to give them money at the same time. They should take their frustration out on Activision, not those who want them held to account.


Of course they're not going to change the character, I never suggested that was case. If you already bought the pass and Crash or any other Activision character was chosen, I recognize that there's nothing you can do about that. But in the realm of character discussion/speculation, there are things the community can do. As fans, we have the ability to say, "This is not acceptable", and shun discussion of characters from Activision. I know a guy who is super hardcore into Crash, and when the news broke, he had the class to put people before his favourite character.

This applies to Ubisoft as well, considering they've shown no willingness to address the issues they've faced, instead just giving lip service to change.

Your feelings on this subject are valid. However, I feel differently, and I bet many other people do too. I don't think there's anything wrong with continuing to support a character when their company has done awful things. It's not like the character or the game they come from promotes these things, after all. As long as we acknowledge that what the company has done is abhorrent, and work towards a lot of change for the better, I don't think it's unreasonable to keep supporting a character. And absolutely, we should listen to the victims and do our best to ensure they are properly compensated. We should do all we can to try and force sweeping changes within the company. I just can't help but feel like wanting Crash in Smash is separate from that in a lot of ways, y'know? And I think it's very possible to care both about the victims of an extremely toxic workplace, and a beloved character. I say this even as a staunch feminist who has been victim to society's r**e culture many times.

 

[Geno Boost]

I have seen some people making the argument that Geno will just end up being a character that will played once and then people won’t use him again but i can hardly see that because of the timed hit mechanic implemented on him and also the use of Geno boost will make him more advanced gunner than
It is something the competitive scene would be interested on using