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Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

Dinoman96

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Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
2,492
I mean, we do have a large and passionate fanbase, but it could just be simply as Kid Icarus Uprising... people are loud, demanding a sequel and all that jazz, only for it to clearly underperform by Nintendos standards since there aren´t even talks of a port for the game. You see what I´m saying?
It's more like because Sakurai considers it a difficult venture.

 
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Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,534
It's more like because Sakurai considers it a difficult venture.

And that could just be a single PR talk. Especially since it's not up to him if a port/sequel happens. He doesn´t own the IP
 

S1itchey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
90
That's a good possibility, actually. I think they went with the costume because they wanted to focus on a bigger character like Cloud first, though. Still, Sakurai said nothing about considering Geno for Ultimate yet, apparently. With that, I have one thing to say...

Unless Sakurai does say something about Geno not being considered tor this game, and unless he says something about Geno having a low chance in being playable in the next game, it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
I'm sure that even if geno didnt have much of a chance getting into smash sakurai wouldnt say anything about it. Hes only ever said something like that with ridley and he ended up getting included anyway. I think that if geno really never had any chance of being playable sakurai wouldnt say anything about it.
 
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SonicSmasher1

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Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
12,502
I'm sure that even if geno didnt have much of a chance getting into smash sakuria wouldnt say anything about it. Hes only ever said something like that with ridley and he ended up getting included anyway. I think that if geno really never had any chance of being playable sakurai wouldnt say anything about it.
He did say something about Geno’s Mii costume in Smash 4, and that he was considered, right?

Still, as long as he still possibly likes Geno and wants him in, there is no reason for fans to give up on Geno, even if we don’t know Sakurai’s current thoughts right now.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I'm sure that even if geno didnt have much of a chance getting into smash sakurai wouldnt say anything about it. Hes only ever said something like that with ridley and he ended up getting included anyway. I think that if geno really never had any chance of being playable sakurai wouldnt say anything about it.
Thing is, not everything is under Sakurai's control as Sakurai doesn't own the rights to any of the characters in Smash except for maybe the Kirby characters and perhaps the Kid Icarus characters. The IP owners have to have a say whether or not their characters should be in or not if Sakurai asks for them. Plus Nintendo sometimes supervises over Sakurai's decisions especially if it's regarding 3rd party characters. So basically, it's Nintendo and Square-Enix's fault why Geno isn't in not Sakurai.
 

RetrogamerMax

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don't think he owns them either
...You're right, Hal Laboratory owns Kirby and Nintendo probably owns Kid Icarus since it started in the NES days. I forgot only stuff that was created at Sora Ltd would probably be Sakurai's property since he started that company and he didn't started Hal. But I get it mixed up there since Kirby is so associated with Hal Laboratory since he's like their mascot.
 

Icewolff92

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Thing is, not everything is under Sakurai's control as Sakurai doesn't own the rights to any of the characters in Smash except for maybe the Kirby characters and perhaps the Kid Icarus characters. The IP owners have to have a say whether or not their characters should be in or not if Sakurai asks for them. Plus Nintendo sometimes supervises over Sakurai's decisions especially if it's regarding 3rd party characters. So basically, it's Nintendo and Square-Enix's fault why Geno isn't in not Sakurai.
At best he has royalties. When Shouzou Kaga (creator of Fire Emblem) left Intelligent System and joined PlayStation, he tried to create an (in lack of better terms) FE ripoff... Nintendo (not Intelligent System) was able to sue his ass stopping it from happening
 
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RetrogamerMax

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At best he has royalties. When Shouzou Kaga (creator of Fire Emblem) left Intelligent System and joined PlayStation, he tried to create an (in lack of better terms) FE ripoff... Nintendo (not Intelligent System) was able to sue his ass stopping it from happening
Wait... What?! I have never heard of this before. So how did that all went down with Shouzou and Nintendo?
 

Icewolff92

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Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,534
So if a SMRPG2 ever happens, should the Higher Authority a totally original new character or Rosalina? I would like for it to be Rosalina as it would be cool if she was the one to sent Geno in SMRPG to save the Mushroom Kingdom.
It all depends. If Square would still be involved, then I rather have an original character. But if Nintendo for whatever reason decided to buy the rights to Geno, I would be all for it to be Rosalina. The reason for this is that if she gets involved through Square, I feel it would be a "one and done appearance" if that makes sense within the lore of SMRPG
 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,689
Well dang, it certainly has been some time. I ended up taking a break from here and had no idea another thread was made! How’s everyone been?
Good to see you again my friend. I miss a lot of the familiar faces I'm sure we lost both due to the lockdown of the thread as well as to general loss of hope, so it's good to see one again. I'm doing well outside of speculation, but within speculation it's been a bit of a pain as if you say something outside of the norm you get ratio'd or whatever new stupid **** the hivemind does nowadays.

Speaking of which, good to see QQS QQS is still here, the legend himself still holding out hope. I'm glad to see someone else who still has big faith in our blue puppet boi.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To finish my take on the subject, you can argue what you want about polls and the like, but it doesn't change the fact that we have proof Geno fans were around in decent numbers and clearly voted in the ballot. How do we know this?

  1. Geno has been a name mentioned in all parts of the Smash community for decades now, and we have evidence that shows people were still talking about him around the Smash Ballot. Of course, other characters got a lot more hype during that time, but that doesn't change the fact that we were still up and at 'em during those months. This clearly means the Geno fan base got in votes during the ballot, though how many we may never know.

  2. Geno's costume got in Smash 4. I don't need to say more, but I will to elaborate: we all know our lovable puppet is niche in comparison to a lot of other mainstream characters that people both want and don't want in Smash. Thus, the fact that he got that kind of recognition after so many years of nothing means that Sakurai and his crew felt they had a justified reason to make that costume, and the only reason would be that we showed our support in enough numbers that Sakurai and his team felt it was important to show us he was listening but that he was limited in what he could provide. Don't forget that its still the only costume to THIS DAY that got an introduction like it was a character.

  3. Taking that last part of the special Geno costume introduction and tying it in with the fact that even though the interviewer brought up Geno, Sakurai felt the need to say what he did about it. Sakurai was the one who said Geno still gets a lot of requests. I'm not sure how much more definitive you can get: the creator and head hancho of Smash let out of his own mouth that the character we want still gets a lot of requests. And guess what Sakurai and his team just had happen? A ballot in which fans could vote for who they wanted, and they could go through that data and find the most requested characters. This interview is also many months after that finalization of the ballot, and thus they most definitely had all the information and time they needed to come up with results.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it than that: We didn't have K. Rool push and numbers, but we clearly came in at enough numbers across the globe that Sakurai felt the need to give us something despite that ballot CLEARLY always being for the next game, and it was big enough numbers that Sakurai felt the need to give us a special intro and details on his history of wanting to make the character playable.

We didn't miss our chance, we just weren't as big as some others, but we hit bigger than most of you think we did. Also Icewolff92 Icewolff92 your potential insinuation is actually ridiculous: what is the point of saying 'I've been trying to get this character in since Brawl since I think he fits well, but it just hasn't happened yet.' as PR speak? PR speak doesn't need to go into details like that when it isn't needed. All he had to do was say 'He's still a bit popular, so I included the costume.' and that would cover the entire question. The term PR Speak itself implies saying things that don't really say a lot but still sound good at the end of the day, which is not what happened in that interview at all. Also, implying that Sakurai would lie to us about something like this for absolutely no reason with no such history of doing so is not only faulty logic, but downright insulting to Sakurai. I would encourage you to not let your own negative outlook push you to such nonsensical conclusions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Going a bit deeper into a topic that many people have covered already but it seems our fan base needs a reminder on how good our boi really has it right now, look back into the Smash 4 days and see who got costumes.

Everyone and their auntie and uncle points at the Smash 4 costumes like Inkling, K. Rool and Chrom and pointing to them being playable in Ultimate and can say "Huh, that means others like Lloyd, Isabelle and Geno have good chances to be playable too!" and while that isn't the wrong way to go about it I think it's very surface level, like the top portion of the Iceberg Meme. What it doesn't do is look at WHY Smash 4 got those costumes in the first place, which is popularity.

See, for the same reason those characters are playable in Ultimate is the same reason they got costumes in Smash 4: people REALLY love them. Now you may say "Why weren't they playable in Smash 4 then?" and the obvious answer is this: Sakurai knew that he would be working on a new game, combined with the fact that there already were no plans for extensive DLC. See, many people seem to forget that Ultimate was Sakurai's final wish from Iwata before his passing, and Iwata hung on until July of 2015. This would mean that Sakurai had some sort of plans to make Ultimate prior to 2015, but we know he started development around Cloud's Reveal in Nov 2015, which means he knew he was working on the next Smash for the next console for sure sometime between July and Oct 2015.

You may wonder the importance of this, but when you add the above with the fact that Mewtwo was originally going to be the only DLC but things changed in development and the fact that nearly half the DLC are veterans that were easy to port over, it's clear DLC was never intended and was never going to be as big for Smash 4 as it has been for Ultimate. So, since you can't go into DLC as hard, but you have a ballot that shows how much fans love certain characters and you already have data for some gathered by experts, what do you do? Well, you make Mii Costumes of those characters instead! It makes you money of course, but it also shows the fans that you are paying attention to what they are saying even if you can't just give them characters, and then you can also gauge the response to the costumes to make a final decision on whether to attempt to make them playable in the next game.

Now there are some exceptions to this thus far, Takamaru and Tails/Knuckles being the ones that stand out.

Takamaru is easy to explain: he's niche, kinda like Geno, but has even less pull and not much appeal due to I believe lack of localization and new entries. However, he also came with both a costume and an AT back in Smash 4 to have both return in Ultimate, so he's a bit of a different story.

Tails and Knuckles are also easy to explain: Knuckles went from a costume and stage element also getting an Assist Trophy. That of course doesn't rule him or Tails out, and I DO think that Sega would obviously consider them, but I'm not sure Nintendo has any interest. Between Sonic being playable, having two stages, Shadow and Knuckles ATs, Tails and Knuckles Mii Costumes, and also figuring in Spirits...maybe Nintendo thinks they have done enough to represent the Sonic franchise in Ultimate despite the requests and want to focus on other franchises. They capitalized on Joker while P5 was still hot, but maybe this is the time to go back for fan demand and get another Sonic character? Although if less-credible leaks are to be believed, they apparently want to gun for Phantasy Star now.

This is also one of the reasons why I keep begging you guys not to stop showing support for Geno. Sure, you can be down about him for whatever reason if you choose, but keep talking about wanting him on social media and in person. Why? Because all the Tails and Knuckles fans have mostly moved on to talking about Robotnik, and in my opinion Sega is a huge contender for another rep, and I think they are setting themselves up for a self-fulfilling prophecy: in other words, since they convinced themselves Tails/Knuckles/Shadow can't get in they decide to root for Robotnik instead of the Sonic character they REALLY want, and then Sakurai, his team, Nintendo and Sega may see this shift without the context and think people WANT Robotnik and thus they make him playable instead of who the fans REALLY wanted. In the same vein, this is why I tell you to still be loud about wanting Geno in Ultimate, because for the sake of future content we need to make sure they don't mistake our decline in activity after the re-release of the costume to be satisfaction.
 
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QQS

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
1,121
Good to see you again my friend. I miss a lot of the familiar faces I'm sure we lost both due to the lockdown of the thread as well as to general loss of hope, so it's good to see one again. I'm doing well outside of speculation, but within speculation it's been a bit of a pain as if you say something outside of the norm you get ratio'd or whatever new stupid **** the hivemind does nowadays.

Speaking of which, good to see QQS QQS is still here, the legend himself still holding out hope. I'm glad to see someone else who still has big faith in our blue puppet boi.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To finish my take on the subject, you can argue what you want about polls and the like, but it doesn't change the fact that we have proof Geno fans were around in decent numbers and clearly voted in the ballot. How do we know this?

  1. Geno has been a name mentioned in all parts of the Smash community for decades now, and we have evidence that shows people were still talking about him around the Smash Ballot. Of course, other characters got a lot more hype during that time, but that doesn't change the fact that we were still up and at 'em during those months. This clearly means the Geno fan base got in votes during the ballot, though how many we may never know.

  2. Geno's costume got in Smash 4. I don't need to say more, but I will to elaborate: we all know our lovable puppet is niche in comparison to a lot of other mainstream characters that people both want and don't want in Smash. Thus, the fact that he got that kind of recognition after so many years of nothing means that Sakurai and his crew felt they had a justified reason to make that costume, and the only reason would be that we showed our support in enough numbers that Sakurai and his team felt it was important to show us he was listening but that he was limited in what he could provide. Don't forget that its still the only costume to THIS DAY that got an introduction like it was a character.

  3. Taking that last part of the special Geno costume introduction and tying it in with the fact that even though the interviewer brought up Geno, Sakurai felt the need to say what he did about it. Sakurai was the one who said Geno still gets a lot of requests. I'm not sure how much more definitive you can get: the creator and head hancho of Smash let out of his own mouth that the character we want still gets a lot of requests. And guess what Sakurai and his team just had happen? A ballot in which fans could vote for who they wanted, and they could go through that data and find the most requested characters. This interview is also many months after that finalization of the ballot, and thus they most definitely had all the information and time they needed to come up with results.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it than that: We didn't have K. Rool push and numbers, but we clearly came in at enough numbers across the globe that Sakurai felt the need to give us something despite that ballot CLEARLY always being for the next game, and it was big enough numbers that Sakurai felt the need to give us a special intro and details on his history of wanting to make the character playable.

We didn't miss our chance, we just weren't as big as some others, but we hit bigger than most of you think we did. Also Icewolff92 Icewolff92 your potential insinuation is actually ridiculous: what is the point of saying 'I've been trying to get this character in since Brawl since I think he fits well, but it just hasn't happened yet.' as PR speak? PR speak doesn't need to go into details like that when it isn't needed. All he had to do was say 'He's still a bit popular, so I included the costume.' and that would cover the entire question. The term PR Speak itself implies saying things that don't really say a lot but still sound good at the end of the day, which is not what happened in that interview at all. Also, implying that Sakurai would lie to us about something like this for absolutely no reason with no such history of doing so is not only faulty logic, but downright insulting to Sakurai. I would encourage you to not let your own negative outlook push you to such nonsensical conclusions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Going a bit deeper into a topic that many people have covered already but it seems our fan base needs a reminder on how good our boi really has it right now, look back into the Smash 4 days and see who got costumes.

Everyone and their auntie and uncle points at the Smash 4 costumes like Inkling, K. Rool and Chrom and pointing to them being playable in Ultimate and can say "Huh, that means others like Lloyd, Isabelle and Geno have good chances to be playable too!" and while that isn't the wrong way to go about it I think it's very surface level, like the top portion of the Iceberg Meme. What it doesn't do is look at WHY Smash 4 got those costumes in the first place, which is popularity.

See, for the same reason those characters are playable in Ultimate is the same reason they got costumes in Smash 4: people REALLY love them. Now you may say "Why weren't they playable in Smash 4 then?" and the obvious answer is this: Sakurai knew that he would be working on a new game, combined with the fact that there already were no plans for extensive DLC. See, many people seem to forget that Ultimate was Sakurai's final wish from Iwata before his passing, and Iwata hung on until July of 2015. This would mean that Sakurai had some sort of plans to make Ultimate prior to 2015, but we know he started development around Cloud's Reveal in Nov 2015, which means he knew he was working on the next Smash for the next console for sure sometime between July and Oct 2015.

You may wonder the importance of this, but when you add the above with the fact that Mewtwo was originally going to be the only DLC but things changed in development and the fact that nearly half the DLC are veterans that were easy to port over, it's clear DLC was never intended and was never going to be as big for Smash 4 as it has been for Ultimate. So, since you can't go into DLC as hard, but you have a ballot that shows how much fans love certain characters and you already have data for some gathered by experts, what do you do? Well, you make Mii Costumes of those characters instead! It makes you money of course, but it also shows the fans that you are paying attention to what they are saying even if you can't just give them characters, and then you can also gauge the response to the costumes to make a final decision on whether to attempt to make them playable in the next game.

Now there are some exceptions to this thus far, Takamaru and Tails/Knuckles being the ones that stand out.

Takamaru is easy to explain: he's niche, kinda like Geno, but has even less pull and not much appeal due to I believe lack of localization and new entries. However, he also came with both a costume and an AT back in Smash 4 to have both return in Ultimate, so he's a bit of a different story.

Tails and Knuckles are also easy to explain: Knuckles went from a costume and stage element also getting an Assist Trophy. That of course doesn't rule him or Tails out, and I DO think that Sega would obviously consider them, but I'm not sure Nintendo has any interest. Between Sonic being playable, having two stages, Shadow and Knuckles ATs, Tails and Knuckles Mii Costumes, and also figuring in Spirits...maybe Nintendo thinks they have done enough to represent the Sonic franchise in Ultimate despite the requests and want to focus on other franchises. They capitalized on Joker while P5 was still hot, but maybe this is the time to go back for fan demand and get another Sonic character? Although if less-credible leaks are to be believed, they apparently want to gun for Phantasy Star now.

This is also one of the reasons why I keep begging you guys not to stop showing support for Geno. Sure, you can be down about him for whatever reason if you choose, but keep talking about wanting him on social media and in person. Why? Because all the Tails and Knuckles fans have mostly moved on to talking about Robotnik, and in my opinion Sega is a huge contender for another rep, and I think they are setting themselves up for a self-fulfilling prophecy: in other words, since they convinced themselves Tails/Knuckles/Shadow can't get in they decide to root for Robotnik instead of the Sonic character they REALLY want, and then Sakurai, his team, Nintendo and Sega may see this shift without the context and think people WANT Robotnik and thus they make him playable instead of who the fans REALLY wanted. In the same vein, this is why I tell you to still be loud about wanting Geno in Ultimate, because for the sake of future content we need to make sure they don't mistake our decline in activity after the re-release of the costume to be satisfaction.
Thanks for the words bro, good to read you again also! Best wishes :)
 

S1itchey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
90
So if a SMRPG2 ever happens, should the Higher Authority a totally original new character or Rosalina? I would like for it to be Rosalina as it would be cool if she was the one to sent Geno in SMRPG to save the Mushroom Kingdom.
Honestly I'd be a little disappointed if the higher power just ended up being rosalina. I would prefer if they'd make an entirely new character instead of just using an already existing one since the RPGs are so well known for having original characters and just using one that was already established in the main franchise would be kind of lame. Either that or just keep the higher power a mystery that we never get to actually see but do hear about from time to time.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Honestly I'd be a little disappointed if the higher power just ended up being rosalina. I would prefer if they'd make an entirely new character instead of just using an already existing one since the RPGs are so well known for having original characters and just using one that was already established in the main franchise would be kind of lame. Either that or just keep the higher power a mystery that we never get to actually see but do hear about from time to time.
Well, I do think the Higher Authority being presented in a SMRPG sequel would give it more depth and lore. Like if they were going up against a bigger threat than Smithy, than I can imagine this Higher Authority actually showing up.
 

TheThingamajigRayman

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somewhere
So if a SMRPG2 ever happens, should the Higher Authority a totally original new character or Rosalina? I would like for it to be Rosalina as it would be cool if she was the one to sent Geno in SMRPG to save the Mushroom Kingdom.
An original new character. It'd be kinda lame for it to just have been Rosalina the whole time, to me anyway.
 

ivanlerma

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Feb 5, 2019
Messages
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So if a SMRPG2 ever happens, should the Higher Authority a totally original new character or Rosalina? I would like for it to be Rosalina as it would be cool if she was the one to sent Geno in SMRPG to save the Mushroom Kingdom.
I would be fine with Rosalina, Plus i think she needs more screentime in Mario Adventure games since Galaxy is her only story role appearances. in the context it would also make sense too.
 

QQS

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
1,121
Another reason I believe Geno can still be playable in Ultimate is: Did Nintendo choose the DLC fighters on both FP, right? BUT, Did Nintendo choose Piranha Plant? I don’t think so. I don’t have that info and maybe it has been said before, but I think Plant is a Sakurai’s pick; same way that Geno (just for the sake to please us on this long-eternal request) could be a Sakurai’s pick as a Bonus Fighter, also from Mario franchise, probably with Forest/Armed songs, and no stage.

That lead towards Geno being the FIRST third-party character coming from a first-party world.

As I said, I can’t assure Geno gonna be playable, but he is definitely not erased. If they wanted to erase Geno permanently from Ultimate, they could have done to him the Bomberman treatment.

You don’t know what is the last card on the table, until you see it. So let’s wait for Ultimate to end. Even a FP3 is possible.

Don’t get me wrong. I know it’s hard, but it’s not impossible.
 

SSGuy

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So if a SMRPG2 ever happens, should the Higher Authority a totally original new character or Rosalina? I would like for it to be Rosalina as it would be cool if she was the one to sent Geno in SMRPG to save the Mushroom Kingdom.
It could definitely play out to be that way, but I also think the potential to expand further in the lore is also there. Something to allow Square Enix to flex it's creative muscles again.
 

RetrogamerMax

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The closest thing we get for a SMG3 is probably a Galaxy kingdom for Mario Odessey 2
So sad, but true.

Pfft... Odyssey 2 seems about as likely as Galaxy 3 at this point.
I would beg to differ. A Odyssey 2 seems a lot more likely than a Galaxy 3 especially since Odyssey is on the freaking Switch for pete sake. Of course there is going to be a Odyssey 2 before the Switch's life cycle ends.
 
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