Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

From the comment section:

“The general public would probably be alot more interested in minecraft steve then some character they've never heard of that came from an RPG on the SNES.”

*vomits*

Let's be real... How many people old enough to legally have a credit/debit card unironically want Steve?

 

[Deleted member]

Mostly a Skull Kid fanmade trailer , but Geno is in it. This storyboard was pretty good tbh.

Also , if we got a in-game cutsene for Geno DLC , I just want him to blast off Cloud with Geno beam like "Now It's my time anime boy." and then the splash screen.

but Square Enix would say no anyway...

Exactly my thoughts, lol. That will be the first thing I do when I buy Geno if he comes. Combo Cloud to death with Geno whirl, Geno beam, Geno flash, Geno flash, the Star gun, and the finger shot

 

[DaxMasterix]

Let's be real... How many people old enough to legally have a credit/debit card unironically want Steve?

Let's be even more real, Steve is recognizable but EMPTY, (IMO) Geno has a cool desing and I'm pretty sure that the reaction for people who doesn't know it is gonna be like "Wow, he looks cool!" or some sort of!

The mayority of costumers are gonna be Smash Fans, and the Smash Community knows Geno at some point, I really hate when people use the argument of "relevancy" or "recognition" while thinking on granma buying a Swith to Play Smash Brothers or something...
Like "A Person who doesn't play Smash is not going to recognize the character"

 

[Wazygoose]

Been lurking here the last few weeks, I was on reddit a long time but decided recently that I just don’t like it anymore. A few pages back people were talking about stages so I wanted to throw out this idea I hadn’t seen anywhere.

If Geno is in, a really creative stage would be to have hazards on in the forest maze Bowyer fight. The hazard is that in the background, Bowyer locks certain buttons just like in the SMRPG fight. So at various points, one of these is always the case:

1. Nothing is locked
2. “A” is locked (regular attacks)
3. “B” is locked (special attacks)
4. “L/R” are locked (shielding, rolling, dodging)

Throw a remix of the boss theme that plays during the Bowyer fight and you’re good to go. It’d be appropriate too since, if you’re going to throwback to Geno, you might as well go all the way back to the very first time he’s playable, which is during the Bowyer Fight.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Been lurking here the last few weeks, I was on reddit a long time but decided recently that I just don’t like it anymore. A few pages back people were talking about stages so I wanted to throw out this idea I hadn’t seen anywhere.

If Geno is in, a really creative stage would be to have hazards on in the forest maze Bowyer fight. The hazard is that in the background, Bowyer locks certain buttons just like in the SMRPG fight. So at various points, one of these is always the case:

1. Nothing is locked
2. “A” is locked (regular attacks)
3. “B” is locked (special attacks)
4. “L/R” are locked (shielding, rolling, dodging)

Throw a remix of the boss theme that plays during the Bowyer fight and you’re good to go. It’d be appropriate too since, if you’re going to throwback to Geno, you might as well go all the way back to the very first time he’s playable, which is during the Bowyer Fight.

(A) Blocked would be a fnckiug Nightmare lmao

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Let's be real... How many people old enough to legally have a credit/debit card unironically want Steve?

I'm 20 and I want Steve... but I want Geno way more.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's be even more real, Steve is recognizable but EMPTY, (IMO) Geno has a cool desing and I'm pretty sure that the reaction for people who doesn't know it is gonna be like "Wow, he looks cool!" or some sort of!

The mayority of costumers are gonna be Smash Fans, and the Smash Community knows Geno at some point, I really hate when people use the argument of "relevancy" or "recognition" while thinking on granma buying a Swith to Play Smash Brothers or something...
Like "A Person who doesn't play Smash is not going to recognize the character"

I just get so pissed when someone on YouTube says that he isn't relevant and that Square Enix would choose a more relevant character, like Sora or Dragon Quest. People don't understand that GENO IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF NINTENDO AND SQUARE ENIX'S HISTORY and that HE GOT A MII COSTUME IN SMASH 4 AND NOT SORA OR DRAGON QUEST and that SAKURAI AND NINTENDO ALREADY HAVE THE RIGHTS TO HIM and that HE IS THE ONLY ONE OF THE THREE MOST REQUESTED SMASH CHARACTERS WHO ISN'T CONFIRMED YET and that SAKURAI LIKES HIM, KNOWS THAT HE IS HIGHLY REQUESTED, and TRIED TO PUT HIM IN THE PREVIOUS TWO SMASH GAMES and that THE TWEET FROM NINTENDO OF AMERICA EARLIER THIS YEAR CLEARLY SHOWS THAT THEY HAVEN"T FORGOTTEN ABOUT HIM.

*sigh* Sorry lol, I have spent too much time around these KH and DQ fanboys and Geno haters

 

[Paul Cesar]

I have nothing more to add that hasn't already discussed but can we take a moment and appreciate the fact that it's 2018 and Geno from Super Mario RPG has made such an impact in all of us and millions of people who played the game long ago. Sometimes a fictional character that appeared in only one game more than 20 years ago can have a lasting impact on an entire community who wish to see him return one day. Almost all spirits have been seen and it appears the only Square-Enix representation in Ultimate is Cloud with the stage and 2 songs he got in the last game and... Geno. Yes, Geno. Regardless of what happens in the end, his chances are high because of this kind of support and because we didn't give up. Many fans of other characters like Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, etc have already had to deal with certainty that their dream to see their character in the game is done, at least for now. We still have a very good chance. A number of things could've happened since the game was announced until now to disconfirm Geno, but the he refuses go away. It's quite incredible when you think about it. Sakurai is usually very quiet but when he decided to comment positively about adding anyone, it could've been Banjo & Kazooie, Isaac, ,or anyone else really. But it was Geno. Let's stay positive and hope for the best.

 

[Deleted member]

I have nothing more to add that hasn't already discussed but can we take a moment and appreciate the fact that it's 2018 and Geno from Super Mario RPG has made such an impact in all of us and millions of people who played the game long ago. Sometimes a fictional character that appeared in only one game more than 20 years ago can have a lasting impact on an entire community who wish to see him return one day. Almost all spirits have been seen and it appears the only Square-Enix representation in Ultimate is Cloud with the stage and 2 songs he got in the last game and... Geno. Yes, Geno. Regardless of what happens in the end, his chances are high because of this kind of support and because we didn't give up. Many fans of other characters like Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, etc have already had to deal with certainty that the dream to see their character in the game is done, at least for now. We still have a very good chance. A number of things could've happened since the game was announced until now to disconfirm Geno, but the he refuses go away. It's quite incredible when you think about it. Sakurai is usually very quiet but when he decided to comment positively about adding anyone, it could've been Banjo & Kazooie, Isaac, ,or anyone else really. But it was Geno. Let's stay positive and hope for the best.

You were lying when you said "I have nothing more to add"

 

[ForsakenM]

So just as we all already knew, Hitagi is full of ****agi Mushrooms and isn't credible in the slightest. Upsets me a bit considering papagenos literally just dropped a vid today both apologizing for perhaps causing people to misinterpret him and also being real with him about being more clear about his leaks.

EDIT: There is the possibility that this has been faked but still, we shouldn't be trusting anything he says anyway,

 

[Deleted member]

So just as we all already knew, Hitagi is full of ****agi Mushrooms and isn't credible in the slightest. Upsets me a bit considering papagenos literally just dropped a vid today both apologizing for perhaps causing people to misinterpret him and also being real with him about being more clear about his leaks.

FYI the image shows up when you quote it

Anyways I never trusted her in the slightest. She definitely has sources (vergeben said so) but they're probably misleading her or giving her leak bait since vergeben has yet to 100% confirm any of her claims (aside from SE rep and MC content but he said that first and he's credible)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Let's be even more real, Steve is recognizable but EMPTY, (IMO) Geno has a cool desing and I'm pretty sure that the reaction for people who doesn't know it is gonna be like "Wow, he looks cool!" or some sort of!

This. Among other arguments, these are some of my biggest ones against a Dragon Quest character and Steve. People recognize them but they are barely wanted in the Smash community. If you really think about it, Ryu, despite being a giant gaming icon, had to be marketed alongside Lucas and Roy for people to care and Corrin was practically bundled with Bayonetta. With DQ and Steve, other characters would have to carry the weight because of their lack of a Smash fanbase presence.

 

[RingJ5]

I'm not usually one for polls but here's another one where Geno's actually first out of nearly 100 characters. The sample size is about half of your typical Reddit Smash poll but it's good to see that people are still largely optimistic:

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...most-excited-see-dlc-super-smash-bros-ultimat /

On to other things, I've been thinking of Sakurai's words regarding DLC. I know it was a translation but he described the Fighter Pass as an "investment." This choice of words is interesting because it heavily implied that the purpose of it is mostly to cater to the people who already bought the game, not attract new people to buy the game. This is supported by the fact that you can upfront buy it without knowing literally any of the content. To me, this exemplifies confidence. This brings a picture in my head of Sakurai leaning back in an office chair, hands behind his head, with a smug smirk on his face. "You might not like everything but you're going to love it overall."

This being said, what would be a good first character to show as DLC? Smash fans bought the game and they're hungry for more, how do you best cater to this clientele? We've already seen it with Smash 4. Like I said the other day, there was literally no reason for Mewtwo to come back aside from fan demand. He was cut in Brawl and terrible in Melee, why would any casual fans care if he came back as is? Lo and behold, prepatch Mewtwo was hot garbage but the Smash fanbase was estatic because Nintendo listened and gave Nintendo a reliable hook and consumer confidence for the rest of DLC.

So, breaking it down, what would be an ideal character to reveal first to bode confidence? We've seen it with other Smash games too. Brawl kicked the door off the hinges with Metaknight, Wario, and Pit, all popular choices, and threw in some flash bangs with Snake. Fast forward to Smash 4: Villager, super popular franchise not yet represented and was thought to be impossible, and MF Megaman, the most popular third party pick at the time bar none. Go to Ultimate: Everyone is Here, Daisy (a character Sakurai had openly turned down multiple times since Melee), and "No Dream too Big" Ridley. If there's one thing you can credit with, it's grabbing our attention and sometimes holding it for literal years with a single trailer.

So, going back, what kind of traits do these first reveal characters typically have?
They're popular and have a notable history in the Smash fan base, even if casuals DGAF. There's your hook. If you want Smash fans to be confident in DLC, you have to cater to them. Sure, you can throw in your Ryus and Corrins but that confidence has to be built if you want them to care, highlighting why a strong start is extremely important.

There’s another interesting point to be made here, actually. The fact that there even is a pass in the first place means that going for purely marketing characters would just end in disappointment for the most amount of people possible.

I can’t imagine that the audience that would be excited by Dragon Quest or Kingdom Hearts as a first reveal would be too excited by Steve, and if they bought the full pass off of such an initial announcement, they could wind up just as mad as some of the hardcore Smash fans would be.

They really can’t please everyone, but even if the dedicated Smash audience is quite smaller than, say, DQ’s, there are a few relatively safe picks(Geno, Banjo, a new Zelda rep) that would make a lot of people in the fanbase satisfied. Trying to get DQ fans to like Steve as a character or vice-versa, on the other hand, seems quite futile.

Let's be even more real, Steve is recognizable but EMPTY, (IMO) Geno has a cool desing and I'm pretty sure that the reaction for people who doesn't know it is gonna be like "Wow, he looks cool!" or some sort of!

The mayority of costumers are gonna be Smash Fans, and the Smash Community knows Geno at some point, I really hate when people use the argument of "relevancy" or "recognition" while thinking on granma buying a Swith to Play Smash Brothers or something...
Like "A Person who doesn't play Smash is not going to recognize the character"

Steve would also just end up playing a lot like Link, just with a fishing rod, an ender pearl up-B, and maybe Wario’s side-B. Actually being able to place blocks and destroy terrain would utterly break the game on so many levels, especially since Smash doesn’t adhere to the kind of “grid” needed for such a thing.

(And if they want another Link, they should just go with Linkle, who I’m really coming around to now that she weirdly doesn’t appear to be a Spirit. Crossbows, electric kicks, and a chicken army could all be quite fun to use.)

 

[EricTheGamerman]

You know, you should really try letting yourself be positive about something, anything, for once. I worry for your health being this negative constantly.

I’m really not that negative all things considering. I’m still here supporting Geno and I constantly bring up how I am actually satisfied with the base roster and the game overall. I’m incredibly hype actually and I adore Smash Bros. I also love Nintendo and my Switch eats up most of my gaming time (Currently Dark Souls lol, so maybe I just love the darkness).

Because I love them both, I’m more critical of them both. Because I want them to do better and it definitely feels like they make lots of mistakes. Complacency in the face of those mistakes is a HUGE issue. The whole be grateful mentality for a product consistently baffles me because we’re consumers. Nobody is entitled to anything except for the product we pay for. Nintendo is still a corporation at then end of the day, and expecting them to always act in our best interests of for the more hardcore fan is just not realistic. There are several great people at Nintendo who believe in better products and they do a great job with a lot of things, but they’re also human and **** up too (See Miyamoto and Star Fox Zero or Paper Mario for example). The company at large has always done some scummy things too (6 billions redesigns of the portables, Wii U games with embarrassing amounts of content like Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, their online basically every time around). They have issues like any other company and I want them to be better. I love people for who they are, not corporations and companies. Those can be changed and influenced with a loud enough voice that indicates something in their favor.

But I am a fairly realistic person leaning on the side of cynicism, and that means I’m often not going to be as optimistic about certain things. Especially because I generally ask for logical things. The number of people I encountered pre-November and Grinch who completely were illogical about the number of characters with Sakurai’s exact words in play against them baffled me, and whenever I tried to point out, hey what you’re saying is kind of unreasonable, I got called the hype police (and I was even advocating we’d get another Echo and unique than we got at the time).

Our Smash community can be relentlessly positive and constantly demand positivity about everything it feels like sometimes. I mean, that’s great and all, but it achieves two very different, but equally bad things:

1. It’s just worst for real discussion when entire viewpoints are neglected and you can’t have real discussion about a character’s chances or situation because people perceive you as being toxic, hype police, or overly negative.
2. We become a massive Echo chamber that feels like objectively have this and that, when it’s like most internet related things in that we have sought out reaffirmation in our particular tastes. That reaffirmation is always going to skew our perceptions inadvertently because that’s what being a part of any community does that believe one collective idea.

None of this is necessarily specifically to be leveraged at this thread. But more SmashBoards in general I suppose. It’s the cost of not allowing true toxicity, **** posting, etc. like GameFAQs I know, but sometimes it does feel like things swing too much in the opposite direction.

Again, to be clear, Geno is still my most wanted character at the moment. I still think he’s a really cool pick and he represents an amazing amount of support and continued love for a minor and unlikely character. I will continue to love and support him for the near future for Ultimate in the ways I see fit. I have always maintained that he had a very good chance for the game. But that’s still a chance and a long way from being a lock.

Where I think negativity gets perceived is when I bring up hey, there are things we maybe aren’t considering as much as we should in terms of competition (Sora, DQ, etc.), or that we overstate some things with regards to Geno’s popularity and importance. And I still believe both of those things and generally have things to point to for both in terms of logic to back them up.

I think Geno is an extremely rare case of a one-off, side character becoming popular within a community of dedicated fans. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t think he’s important to anything or anyone but us as the fans (Super Mario RPG is important, not individual characters created for the game) and potentially Sakurai. Those are where his chances as a character lie, and those are still amazingly better than they ever should because of that support from the community and Sakurai himself.

 

[SSGuy]

Let's be real... How many people old enough to legally have a credit/debit card unironically want Steve?

I want him just to see what he could do. It would be such a big deal to have a character like him in I think and it wouldn't hurt to have Steve in.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Mostly a Skull Kid fanmade trailer , but Geno is in it. This storyboard was pretty good tbh.

Also , if we got a in-game cutsene for Geno DLC , I just want him to blast off Cloud with Geno beam like "Now It's my time anime boy." and then the splash screen.

but Square Enix would say no anyway...

This is incredibly well done

 

[owjies]

View attachment 178927

So just as we all already knew, Hitagi is full of ****agi Mushrooms and isn't credible in the slightest. Upsets me a bit considering papagenos literally just dropped a vid today both apologizing for perhaps causing people to misinterpret him and also being real with him about being more clear about his leaks.

EDIT: There is the possibility that this has been faked but still, we shouldn't be trusting anything he says anyway,

This is a really fascinating development because, while her credibility was always iffy, Hitagi claimed to have seen Vergeben's list of seven possible Square reps. Of those, she said Dragon Quest and Crono were the names she heard most while she heard little to nothing on Geno, Sora, and Lara. If Hitagi's list is actually fake, then I think that could hurt Dragon Quest's chances. Just a side note, I also think No Square Rep's chances are going up a little but still very unlikely.

 

[valkiriforce]

Another thing that really stands out in my mind is the fact that Sakurai has openly told people in an interview about how Geno still gets a lot of votes and requests for him, despite being an older character, and he acknowledges that they are quite popular. Considering his awareness of how eager fans are for characters and even posting about it on Twitter (when he asked people not to flood them with requests, since they've already finished a DLC lineup) he already knows there's demand out there for Geno. I would think openly admitting Geno's popularity and the fact that he still gets a lot of votes and requests is a pretty big thing to be put out there from a developer. It may be old news to us but that's a pretty big thing to let out the door. If he posted something on Twitter like, "Geno still gets a lot of votes" today I'm sure it would blow up. The fact is he said this years ago, and before that he made the Mii Fighter outfit so the fans felt they at least got something. I'd contrast that with Rex as a Mii Fighter costume which he openly admits came too late in the development cycle of Smash Ultimate. This puts Geno in a very good spot for DLC since we have our insiders telling us about a Square Enix representative, and we know how difficult they can be to deal with concerning other characters, and the fact that Smash Ultimate began development in 2015. If he somehow didn't put Geno in I would wonder why he would openly tell people and acknowledge Geno's popularity and not give fans what he knows they want?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'll go ahead and say it: the Geno fanbase is pretty inspirational in its own right. Not enough to get its own Disney movie "based on a true story" adaptation but enough that we're kind of a pillar of the Smash community. A 22 year old character that has had a visible fanbase campaigning for him for the last 13 largely because SMRPG meant that much to their childhood/teenage years. That's pretty great no matter how you slice it.

Add in: Also, I don't think it was any coincidence that the Wii Virtual Console got SMRPG in 2008 and the Wii U VC in late 2015/early 2016. Whether you all feel like it or not, this fanbase has had a positive impact.

 

[domriver]

Verge will say something when verge is ready. I do have a question regarding the embargo. Anyone know when the rest of the embargo will be lifted? I mean sooner or later leaks are going to start popping up showing the rest of the bosses / cutscenes (if any) / classic mode finish mini movies all that.
I think 1st paid DLC will be ready when Piranha Plant is ready. We shall get 2 right away. Heres to hopin Geno will get a FANCY CGI INTRO *-*

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Been lurking here the last few weeks, I was on reddit a long time but decided recently that I just don’t like it anymore. A few pages back people were talking about stages so I wanted to throw out this idea I hadn’t seen anywhere.

If Geno is in, a really creative stage would be to have hazards on in the forest maze Bowyer fight. The hazard is that in the background, Bowyer locks certain buttons just like in the SMRPG fight. So at various points, one of these is always the case:

1. Nothing is locked
2. “A” is locked (regular attacks)
3. “B” is locked (special attacks)
4. “L/R” are locked (shielding, rolling, dodging)

Throw a remix of the boss theme that plays during the Bowyer fight and you’re good to go. It’d be appropriate too since, if you’re going to throwback to Geno, you might as well go all the way back to the very first time he’s playable, which is during the Bowyer Fight.

I love it, but now you have the problem of expecting SE to release *two* characters they have rights too.

Also, hi. Long time Geno fan recently deciding to fail at avoiding the hype train imminent chaos.

 

[coolcat12347]

I honestly feel bad for Papagenos, considering Hitagi was pretty harsh towards him from what I've seen?

 

[ForsakenM]

I’m really not that negative all things considering. I’m still here supporting Geno and I constantly bring up how I am actually satisfied with the base roster and the game overall. I’m incredibly hype actually and I adore Smash Bros. I also love Nintendo and my Switch eats up most of my gaming time (Currently Dark Souls lol, so maybe I just love the darkness).

Says he isn't really negative.

Proceeds to be mostly pessimistic in the rest of his post, just like his previous posts.

Just kidding, he just explains his reasons for said pessimism. I was gonna tackle each portion, but these two seem the most relevant.

Our Smash community can be relentlessly positive and constantly demand positivity about everything it feels like sometimes. I mean, that’s great and all, but it achieves two very different, but equally bad things:

1. It’s just worst for real discussion when entire viewpoints are neglected and you can’t have real discussion about a character’s chances or situation because people perceive you as being toxic, hype police, or overly negative.
2. We become a massive Echo chamber that feels like objectively have this and that, when it’s like most internet related things in that we have sought out reaffirmation in our particular tastes. That reaffirmation is always going to skew our perceptions inadvertently because that’s what being a part of any community does that believe one collective idea.

.

See, here is the thing about being a fan of a character you want in Smash: until it really happens, there is no true confirmation, so until then it's just waiting in the unknown. Now, how would you like to spend that time waiting? In looming dread, or hopeful anticipation? Being down about it and saying 'I told you so' if it doesn't happen, or so full of life and eagerness that sometimes you mistake things as more than they are because of your love for a character and then get down for a bit when it doesn't happen and then move on? On one hand, you are negative and downtrodden most of the time, and if the character doesn't make it you stay that way and if they do, you get momentary happiness and excitement. The other way, you are excited most of the time and constantly engaged, and if they don't get in you are sad momentarily and if they do the elation goes through the roof.

I think most of us choose the latter over the former. Also, the only echo chamber here is that we all love Geno and want him in Smash...which is kind of the point of this thread? And we are constantly having real discussions, but guys like you and GoodGrief741 skip over arguments or miss points or don't always offer good counterpoints to what we bring up. Like, when we say getting DQ or Sora in via the Fighters Pass is much more of a pain in the ass than Geno due to music master rights and lack of promotion material, you guys either don't address it at all or give a more eloquent version of 'No u.' Start actually trying to come up with counterpoints to the really solid points Geno has behind him, and maybe it will feel more like a discussion, though I will admit there are very few things you can really bring up against Geno at this point.

I think Geno is an extremely rare case of a one-off, side character becoming popular within a community of dedicated fans. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t think he’s important to anything or anyone but us as the fans (Super Mario RPG is important, not individual characters created for the game) and potentially Sakurai. Those are where his chances as a character lie, and those are still amazingly better than they ever should because of that support from the community and Sakurai himself.

First off, FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRISTO, GENO IS NOT A SIDE CHARACTER! He's a main character, hell the whole main plot revolves around him, and everyone else is in for the ride: Mario's plot ends when they save Peach and he decides to stick with his crew to save the world's wishes, Mallow's plot ends when he finds his real home and he sticks with the crew for the same reason, Bowser is tagging along so that they can rid the main bad guy and he can have his castle back, and Peach is just there for the adventure because she wants to help save the world rather than not.

Geno is playable, has a lot of character moments, and is the character most tied to the main plot of the game. A side character would be Yoshi or Boshi or Frogfucius or Prototype Toadsworth. He is not only a main character, but he is arguably THE main character of the game, trumped by Mario only because he's required in the party and Square needed to sells games in the West.

That aside, there are likely many examples of mostly unknown characters becoming relevant due to fan discourse and demand, and hell Ultimate is basically a show-and-tell in that regard, but that's not what bothers me most about your post. You are essentially saying that Geno's chances are solely based on the fact that many of us want him and Sakurai does/did at one point and, by that logic, nothing else we bring up really matters or adds to his chances...which let me tell you, is a bunch of crock. Yeah, the fact that Sakurai/Nintendo already had the right to him in Smash 4 and clearly still do doesn't add to his chances at all, nor does the fact that his competitors for an SE rep are either just as obscure or more and lack fan request or have so much red tape involved that you would think it's some sort of weird obstacle course.

Come on, man.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Says he isn't really negative.

Proceeds to be mostly pessimistic in the rest of his post, just like his previous posts.

Just kidding, he just explains his reasons for said pessimism. I was gonna tackle each portion, but these two seem the most relevant.

.

See, here is the thing about being a fan of a character you want in Smash: until it really happens, there is no true confirmation, so until then it's just waiting in the unknown. Now, how would you like to spend that time waiting? In looming dread, or hopeful anticipation? Being down about it and saying 'I told you so' if it doesn't happen, or so full of life and eagerness that sometimes you mistake things as more than they are because of your love for a character and then get down for a bit when it doesn't happen and then move on? On one hand, you are negative and downtrodden most of the time, and if the character doesn't make it you stay that way and if they do, you get momentary happiness and excitement. The other way, you are excited most of the time and constantly engaged, and if they don't get in you are sad momentarily and if they do the elation goes through the roof.

I think most of us choose the latter over the former. Also, the only echo chamber here is that we all love Geno and want him in Smash...which is kind of the point of this thread? And we are constantly having real discussions, but guys like you and GoodGrief741 skip over arguments or miss points or don't always offer good counterpoints to what we bring up. Like, when we say getting DQ or Sora in via the Fighters Pass is much more of a pain in the *** than Geno due to music master rights and lack of promotion material, you guys either don't address it at all or give a more eloquent version of 'No u.' Start actually trying to come up with counterpoints to the really solid points Geno has behind him, and maybe it will feel more like a discussion, though I will admit there are very few things you can really bring up against Geno at this point.



First off, FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRISTO, GENO IS NOT A SIDE CHARACTER! He's a main character, hell the whole main plot revolves around him, and everyone else is in for the ride: Mario's plot ends when they save Peach and he decides to stick with his crew to save the world's wishes, Mallow's plot ends when he finds his real home and he sticks with the crew for the same reason, Bowser is tagging along so that they can rid the main bad guy and he can have his castle back, and Peach is just there for the adventure because she wants to help save the world rather than not.

Geno is playable, has a lot of character moments, and is the character most tied to the main plot of the game. A side character would be Yoshi or Boshi or Frogfucius or Prototype Toadsworth. He is not only a main character, but he is arguably THE main character of the game, trumped by Mario only because he's required in the party and Square needed to sells games in the West.

That aside, there are likely many examples of mostly unknown characters becoming relevant due to fan discourse and demand, and hell Ultimate is basically a show-and-tell in that regard, but that's not what bothers me most about your post. You are essentially saying that Geno's chances are solely based on the fact that many of us want him and Sakurai does/did at one point and, by that logic, nothing else we bring up really matters or adds to his chances...which let me tell you, is a bunch of crock. Yeah, the fact that Sakurai/Nintendo already had the right to him in Smash 4 and clearly still do doesn't add to his chances at all, nor does the fact that his competitors for an SE rep are either just as obscure or more and lack fan request or have so much red tape involved that you would think it's some sort of weird obstacle course.

Come on, man.

For what it’s worth, if I don’t reply to something is because I agree with it.

And I got trash-talked in here and the Newcomer Speculation thread just for attempting discussion, enough so that I just kinda retreated. I’m all for hope, hell, even blind hope can do good, but don’t hate on somebody when they want to tell you that it might be misplaced.

Before November 1st I had hope that, despite all the signs I couldn’t notice, this game was going to be the game that was being marketed. That hope was dashed. So now I lean more on the side of caution. Nothing wrong with either perspective, I suppose.

 

[Loliko YnT]

The more I think about it , the more I found Square Enix dumb for not giving a few Spirits to Smash.

It's just .jpg of their characters , It's basically free promotion ! I know some of their characters are also owned by others companies... But except Geno and Cloud , did they really had nothing else ?! It really surprise me ... On another hand , if they are really this stingy , and let them use Geno of all character they have , that mean that they have some confidence in Geno's popularity... Or maybe It's just because of the Mii costume ?

We really need to know the full list of Spirits... If he's not one , that would be weird ...

 

[DaxMasterix]

First off, FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRISTO, GENO IS NOT A SIDE CHARACTER! He's a main character

SACRILEGIO
Anyways, the discussion about if Geno was a Side Character or Main Character always was on discussion.
For me, he is a Main Character but not the Protagonist, (As a lot of people tends to confuds these two). But by that logic.. Bowser, Mallow and Peach (Toadstool) are Main Characters too, because they're the heroes.

Mario is the Protagonist, we play as him and the game is Super Mario RPG.
Now, I remembered something, is true that Geno was supposed to have an own game back in 1999? I don't remember where I saw it but, still, made me think about it.

 

[FCZHornet]

The more I think about it , the more I found Square Enix dumb for not giving a few Spirits to Smash.

It's just .jpg of their characters , It's basically free promotion ! I know some of their characters are also owned by others companies... But except Geno and Cloud , did they really had nothing else ?! It really surprise me ... On another hand , if they are really this stingy , and let them use Geno of all character they have , that mean that they have some confidence in Geno's popularity... Or maybe It's just because of the Mii costume ?

We really need to know the full list of Spirits... If he's not one , that would be weird ...

The geno icon being shown during the Nov 1st is still incredibly suspect to me. Every day that we move away from that without anyone finding any sort of meaning / spirit / whatever for it helps Geno a ton. They know Geno is important enough to add a Mii costume for him, placing that little drop during that video is just INCREDIBLY strange. I think it has to point to something.

 

[djgwiz]

Square is incredibly particular with how their characters are represented in games. They tend to do more costume crossovers (Mii hats, Littlebigplanet costumes, etc) than full on playable character crossovers because I think they're very cautious to how their characters are used in gameplay.
I could see how a company like them would be not willing to let Nintendo license character like Crono or another FF character 'possesing' the body of a Nintendo character. Like its been stated numerous times before, Square not including FF/other Square series spirits would be a huge benefit to Geno, a character who's only (feasibly usable) official game art was used as an online icon instead.

 

[DaxMasterix]

The more I think about it , the more I found Square Enix dumb for not giving a few Spirits to Smash.

It's just .jpg of their characters , It's basically free promotion ! I know some of their characters are also owned by others companies... But except Geno and Cloud , did they really had nothing else ?! It really surprise me ... On another hand , if they are really this stingy , and let them use Geno of all character they have , that mean that they have some confidence in Geno's popularity... Or maybe It's just because of the Mii costume ?

We really need to know the full list of Spirits... If he's not one , that would be weird ...

Men, day one is gonna be crazy.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

How many pieces of official Geno art even exist anyway?
There's his original SMRPG art that appears as an online icon in SSBU.
And what else? There was a puzzle promoting SMRPG that I think featured him and.... I can't think of anything else. Anyone got anything?

This is official art-

 

[djgwiz]

This is official art-

I mean, I guess they could make that as a spirit but I think it's kind of a stretch.
If a Mallow or any other SMRPG spirit that isn't Geno gets discovered that would be a big sign.

 

[SSGuy]

While I can't say Geno is the protagonist, he plays a much more significant role as a party member to the story than all Paper Mario party members combined.

 

[owjies]

While I can't say Geno is the protagonist, he plays a much more significant role as a party member to the story than all Paper Mario party members combined.

To back up your point, this is straight from an interview with Sakurai released today, "Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?"

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

PolarPanda
I would like to say something. Thank you so much for giving me hope everyday with Geno. You always make me feel happy and hopeful whenever I hear your sources give us the details. Also, I have one question... does the Nintendo ambassador you know look like...... this?

Spoiler

Are you getting your sources from Lady Lima?!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Says he isn't really negative.

Proceeds to be mostly pessimistic in the rest of his post, just like his previous posts.

Just kidding, he just explains his reasons for said pessimism. I was gonna tackle each portion, but these two seem the most relevant.

.

See, here is the thing about being a fan of a character you want in Smash: until it really happens, there is no true confirmation, so until then it's just waiting in the unknown. Now, how would you like to spend that time waiting? In looming dread, or hopeful anticipation? Being down about it and saying 'I told you so' if it doesn't happen, or so full of life and eagerness that sometimes you mistake things as more than they are because of your love for a character and then get down for a bit when it doesn't happen and then move on? On one hand, you are negative and downtrodden most of the time, and if the character doesn't make it you stay that way and if they do, you get momentary happiness and excitement. The other way, you are excited most of the time and constantly engaged, and if they don't get in you are sad momentarily and if they do the elation goes through the roof.

I think most of us choose the latter over the former. Also, the only echo chamber here is that we all love Geno and want him in Smash...which is kind of the point of this thread? And we are constantly having real discussions, but guys like you and GoodGrief741 skip over arguments or miss points or don't always offer good counterpoints to what we bring up. Like, when we say getting DQ or Sora in via the Fighters Pass is much more of a pain in the *** than Geno due to music master rights and lack of promotion material, you guys either don't address it at all or give a more eloquent version of 'No u.' Start actually trying to come up with counterpoints to the really solid points Geno has behind him, and maybe it will feel more like a discussion, though I will admit there are very few things you can really bring up against Geno at this point.



First off, FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRISTO, GENO IS NOT A SIDE CHARACTER! He's a main character, hell the whole main plot revolves around him, and everyone else is in for the ride: Mario's plot ends when they save Peach and he decides to stick with his crew to save the world's wishes, Mallow's plot ends when he finds his real home and he sticks with the crew for the same reason, Bowser is tagging along so that they can rid the main bad guy and he can have his castle back, and Peach is just there for the adventure because she wants to help save the world rather than not.

Geno is playable, has a lot of character moments, and is the character most tied to the main plot of the game. A side character would be Yoshi or Boshi or Frogfucius or Prototype Toadsworth. He is not only a main character, but he is arguably THE main character of the game, trumped by Mario only because he's required in the party and Square needed to sells games in the West.

That aside, there are likely many examples of mostly unknown characters becoming relevant due to fan discourse and demand, and hell Ultimate is basically a show-and-tell in that regard, but that's not what bothers me most about your post. You are essentially saying that Geno's chances are solely based on the fact that many of us want him and Sakurai does/did at one point and, by that logic, nothing else we bring up really matters or adds to his chances...which let me tell you, is a bunch of crock. Yeah, the fact that Sakurai/Nintendo already had the right to him in Smash 4 and clearly still do doesn't add to his chances at all, nor does the fact that his competitors for an SE rep are either just as obscure or more and lack fan request or have so much red tape involved that you would think it's some sort of weird obstacle course.

Come on, man.

Still not being as pessimistic as you think I am. Maybe I’m skewed because I have a very real personal understanding of dark pessimism. You may too, so I don’t want to assume too much or even really get into the specifics. That’s personal and a larger debate of pessimism versus optimism, and one person’s ideologies of both are going to vary wildly from person to person. It all depends on perspective, and from mine I’m actually quite optimistic for Geno given his relative unimportance as a character.


You want to bring up how we don’t further discussion? I wholeheartedly disagree. A lot of support threads in general spend all this time discussing how to implement characters and how cool the parent franchise is. Thats great discussion usually and people have lots of varied opinions all over the place.

It’s when people begin to start speculating about chances that I cosistently see those threads lock up and get into cycles. People start throwing a list of “evidence” and that repeats again and again. When people express doubt, they are met by the same cries of positivity and holding out hope.

Now when we were discussing base game? Hell yeah that was much more reasonable. After King K Rool, we had just gotten five character reveals and relevancy was seemingly dead. Requests seemed to be happening all around. And then Isabelle happened. And then Sakurai said, “Seriously don’t expect much more.” And then November 1st happened. My slide into a less optimistic mind set paralleled all of the happenings with that. Now I don’t know if that optimism is as earned as it once was on a level for Ultimate, especially with Nintendo picking characters for Sakurai to choose from. Half of our hope relies on Sakurai wanting Geno, I think the Nintendo decision is an absolutely massive blow to his chances.

Back to discussion though. I just want people to consider the chance that Sora and DQ, or whatever else, could be more beneficial to Nintendo to pick.

So much of the current DLC argument is that, well, it’s more difficult to get those characters than Geno. Technically true, but do we have any idea how actually difficult that is, or if that difficulty is in anyway negligible to someone like Nintendo and Sakurai who consistently work through big deals and plans? Not at all. Especially when there’s been at least some support of the ideas on a superfificial level with Sora, exactly like Banjo mind you and he gets all the love and support despite having as many problems (if not more than) as Sora.

Who is to say they didn’t work a deal with Square and Disney to bring something Kingdom Hearts related to Switch? Or that Dragon Quest as a whole isn’t a bigger part of the plan moving forward for Switch and 3DS? And the answer is nobody knows except Nintendo, but to consider these two large franchises as non-contenders seems irresponsible of a fan base to me.

And what does Geno do for Nintendo exactly? Really, what does he promote? At absolute best, one game of 21 of the SNES classic. A system that doesn’t really need a ton of sales or advertisement and represents a new sort of cash grab opportunity for Nintendo that they’ve expressed the notion of these being special temporary things. The Classic lines as we know it is currently not meant to be long term. That’s not exactly a stellar reason for promotion either. The only large one would be if they were making a Super Mario RPG 2, but again, that falls into the same we just don’t know of Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest, and is exactly as valid as making those propositions.

Geno has three main things going for him; Sakurai’s love for the character, the fan support for the character, and the rights for the character being in Smash. I don’t and have never disputed any of those points. If he gets in to Ultimate, those will be the reasons why. Nothing more, nothing less.

Other characters either have newer games to either cross promote (The World Ends With You, Bravery Default), or represent larger franchises to represent in Smash (Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Tomb Raider). It doesn’t matter if the individual characters aren’t as big in the second scenario, they are picked to represent the franchise as a whole much like Cloud was for Final Fantasy (He was the most popular pick admittedly, but still it shows the trend of choosing to represent the franchise by a character).

And fan requests really are not everything. Why turn down an opportunity to cross over your massive fighting game with another massive franchise? Look at Smash 4 DLC, cause that’s exactky the route they chose with some of the new characters. Fan requests have not always been the exclusive decision in choosing characters, and with how much fan service they’ve already paid to this game, you can’t really say they haven’t already done that job. While I think fan requests should beat out most considerations, I highly doubt that’s the case with Nintendo. I mean look at Isaac, objectively a super easy fan requested inclusion and they still managed to miss him as playable. That sort of thing doesn’t inspire hope in other fan requests of similar nature...

I’m summing all this up to say, just consider the possibility that Geno isn’t such a lock and that hey, other characters can still have a chance too. I disagree with being so completely dismissive of them all around. I have maintained that pretty consistently these past couple weeks.


As for the side character comment, I apologize for the nomenclature on my end. Side character is just what I name any playable party member that is the non-MC of the game. He’s definitely a party member, but again, that’s my nomenclature standpoint on that.

Edit: Realized I hadn’t actually mentioned the rights in my previous post which is my bad. I’ve never contended that part, but I did fail to mention it, so that’s entirely my bad and maybe that absence is part of what left a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Back to discussion though. I just want people to consider the chance that Sora and DQ, or whatever else, could be more beneficial to Nintendo to pick.

Y I K E S

But we’re the ones talking in circles right?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Y I K E S

But we’re the ones talking in circles right?

I mean I’m the one pushing this point/platform. So yeah, I’m going to keep bringing it up.

I think considering the possibility is helpful for discussion and realistic predictions of what might happen with the Square character. And I see nothing wrong with that (and yet again, I’ll point out that I think Geno has a very serious chance as DLC, I’m not disputing that either...)

 

[EarlTamm]

I mean I’m the one pushing this point/platform. So yeah, I’m going to keep bringing it up.

I think considering the possibility is helpful for discussion and realistic predictions of what might happen with the Square character. And I see nothing wrong with that (and yet again, I’ll point out that I think Geno has a very serious chance as DLC, I’m not disputing that either...)

I understand that and I think many other do as will, but people are just sick of that topic right now. You can't expect people to be in the right mind to have that discussion when said discussion has constantly been beaten into the persons head.

 

[DaxMasterix]

but to consider these two large franchises as non-contenders seems irresponsible of a fan base to me.

???????
The whole point of discussing them is because we a lot of people see them as contenders. lmao

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I mean I’m the one pushing this point/platform. So yeah, I’m going to keep bringing it up.

I think considering the possibility is helpful for discussion and realistic predictions of what might happen with the Square character. And I see nothing wrong with that (and yet again, I’ll point out that I think Geno has a very serious chance as DLC, I’m not disputing that either...)

The possibility of this has been considered a ton, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. You speak as if that idea has been shut down with no consideration.

It has been considered a ton and once people have thought about it we’ve come to the conclusion that Sora and DQ just don’t make nearly as much sense as Geno, for reasons stated ad nauseam the past 100 pages. So you asking people to consider it more without having any compelling reason to is wild. No one here is saying that those series have no shot, just that Geno makes way more sense.