Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RingJ5]

But like, why? Why continue to bring so much attention to the game but not actually have content outside of... costumes? (and also the Palutena's Guidance for Piranha Plant mentioning Megasmilax)

Also regarding the premium costumes, I still think it's reserved for indies and other new characters that don't, or simply, "can't" quite make it in for one reason or another. Both so far are indies that got very popular. Obs just an unconfirmed pattern as we only have a population size of 2, but who knows.



How does CacoMallow not line up with Mii Costume Leaker? It has Mallow right there. We've only seen two costumes come out of CacoMallow, and MCL's list is supposedly for Wave 2 and 3. It's the fact that they heard Mallow/Smithy that is important, not the timing of it. Geno could have absolutely been in FP1, or maybe the costumes were, but they dumped them because it sure would be weird to have Mallow/Smithy but no Geno.



That still doesn't cause conflict between the two leaks, outside of Cacodemon who probably wasn't heard at the time.



I don't see how the work being done earlier is a problem though. Procrastination is never a good thing. Also it's totally possible that the people who make the costumes aren't the same people working on the additional characters.

Also regarding the time of the leak (July last year), it's entirely possible they heard Geno (as that's who Sakurai potentially wanted in FP1) and assumed a few things. I don't know what happened or why, but I still trust the leak that has a video of characters bouncing around and modders have been unsuccessful in trying to replicate it, moreso than text on a screen that has been incorrect thus far (only regarding the Mallow, Smithy, and Chocobo costumes). That means we either have SuperModder on our hands, or it's just a legitimate leak.



Dunno why you're mentioning Ubisoft, especially as "new for #6" when we just got Ubisoft costumes with Byleth (#5; Altair and Rabbids).
Also unsure what you're talking about regarding #2 (I assume Hero?). Are you saying we'll be "seeing a premium Geno costume in this next wave"? That's not going to happen because Square Enix doesn't drop their stuff with the "filthy peasantry of non-SE content". Considering we already know #6 isn't a SE rep (because it's one-or-more from ARMS), that won't happen.



I don't really believe in the batches thing anyway and we have no confirmation on that. IIRC, isn't that just an assumption made by the fans?

TL;DR: Lord knows why we haven't seen Chocobo, Mallow, Smithy, and Geno costumes yet, but I have a feeling the direct in June will be very revealing.

I think you’re not quite getting the point I’m trying to convey, which could very well be my bad because it is quite abstract, so I’m just going to put the TL;DR summary at the top and use the rest of my post to explain it.

Cacomallow is probably real, Slayer is probably not. Geno was potentially fully intended to be the first Premium Costume at one point, but was since promoted and will NOT be one. However, they created the Mallow and Smithy costumes all the way back in June to go with said costume. The Cacodemon head is in my opinion most likely going to come with the ARMS character in a similar way to the Ubisoft costumes that happened with #5.

I am saying that at one point Geno was fully going to be a premium costume, but was then negotiated for full character status and saved for that. I am saying that the Mallow costume was not made in October in preparation for #7 or #8, I’m saying that they already had it done back in June for a Geno costume launch that got cancelled when Geno got promoted.

I am also saying that Geno being a premium costume at one point but not any more explains why the Mii Costume list missed Sans: The list didn’t have premium costumes to begin with. Assuming that they didn’t just entirely delete the Geno costume files the second that he was internally promoted(which would be a profound waste of resources especially if you wanted to use the costume later as one of those joke fakeout things that they’ve been fond of), this would explain the one major inconsistency with the Mii Costume list.

Yes, both the Mii Costume list and Cacodemon have Mallow. That is not my point, it’s that if they supposedly do work on these things that ridiculously far in advance, the Mii Costume list should have either:

A. Had SNK characters on it.
B. Only had the Wave #3 costumes, nothing canceled from Wave #2.

it managing to be a full leak of costumes from multiple waves while not having SNK costumes doesn’t add up if they really do have Mii Costumes for #7 and #8 fully completed ten months in advance. Especially with how the costume list itself was one of the few completely real leaks to get out, the idea that Nintendo would be willing to go and make potentially a substantially worse mistake by having the characters for #7 and #8 hanging around that far in advance and basically ready to be leaked at any time would make no sense.

As for batches, we know that that’s how Joker, Hero, and Banjo were developed. It wouldn’t make sense to suddenly work on 5-6 characters at once after that, especially when Sakurai has repeatedly mentioned winding down development with this second batch of DLC.

The point I’m trying to make here is that if the leak is real, which it very well could be, I’m theorizing that we’re most likely not seeing costumes being made in October 2019 specifically for #7 and #8. We are seeing a third-party Bethesda costume made to drop during Wave 6 similar to the Ubisoft costumes in Wave 5, alongside a costume that was designed back in June 2019 only for its associated character to get promoted, leaving it in waiting for an exceptional amount of time. Or, in other words:

Cacodemon: Developed in October 2019 for Wave 6, as part of Bethesda costumes coming with the ARMS character.
Mallow: Developed in June 2019 for Wave 2 to launch with a Geno costume, but then Geno got internally promoted to character and the Mallow costume itself got delayed until whenever the full Geno character launches in FP2.

The main thing that still seriously gets me is that if the Mii Costume list was one of the few real things to leak, I’d expect Nintendo to basically shut down any attempts to work on costumes that ridiculously far in advance. The most leak-conscious company in the world going “Yeah, sure, work on those incredibly spoilery assets for #7 and #8 that we won’t need for like ten months at the earliest”(well, before unforeseen circumstances delayed #6 to basically that point, anyway). The idea that instead they were showing off a costume meant for Wave 6 alongside a special case of a costume that was designed back in June but was suddenly held back for a full character release far later in makes a good amount more sense to me development-wise.

I realize that the point I’m trying to make with all this might be a bit abstract, but I hope it came across anyway. I’m trying to reconcile both leaks together in more specific ways than “they both have Mallow in them.”

 

[Polarthief]

Cacomallow is probably real, Slayer is probably not. Geno was potentially fully intended to be the first Premium Costume at one point, but was since promoted and will NOT be one. However, they created the Mallow and Smithy costumes all the way back in June to go with said costume. The Cacodemon head is in my opinion most likely going to come with the ARMS character in a similar way to the Ubisoft costumes that happened with #5.

Gotcha, okay. Sorry was a bit confused on your previous post. I don't know if I agree with Geno possibly being a premium from the get-go, I really don't, but the rest of this, yeah I'm down with that.
TL;DR on my own thoughts: At this point, I'm very unsure on Doomguy, extremely sure on Geno.

That said, where is Chocobo though? Why delay him to Geno's pack when DQ only had 4 costumes, y'know?

Mallow: Developed in June 2019 for Wave 2 to launch with a Geno costume, but then Geno got internally promoted to character and the Mallow costume itself got delayed until whenever the full Geno character launches in FP2.

I just, I can't agree with Mallow and Smithy being added alongside Geno's costume being upgraded to premium. I don't see any reason to do that when both Nintendo and Square do nearly everything they can to forget SMRPG is a thing while pretending to "satisfy" fans of that game. I'd sooner believe Byleth was intended to be in FP2 but was swapped to FP1 instead (and Geno was in FP1, swapped to FP2). I don't *actually* believe that (any more), but I would sooner than think they'd add 2 more SMRPG costumes alongside Geno STILL not getting in. Just my two cents.

 

[Powerman293]

I get the line of logic as to why a Geno Premium Mii costume wouldn't be in the cards. Why upgrade a Mii costume if it's gonna be sold at the same price when you could just take the old costume and sell it again? But this is Nintendo and Square so selling Premium Geno for double the price of Sans wouldn't surprise me.

But I don't get the whole "Geno was gonna be upgraded but became a character hence why Mallow and Smithy costumes didn't happen" thing?

 

[OffBi]

Oh wow, this thread is dead.

 

[Nicnac]

Oh wow, this thread is dead.

Yeah, we've kinda exhausted every topic of conversation even tangentially related to Geno and no news has come up in a while. Still, not too long until June, where I think we'll get SOMETHING for our boy.

 

[Deleted member]

Something to keep in mind with the Cacodemon hat in particular. The Mii Hats that wrap around the face will clip thru the outfit. This is because the Mii Outfit gives little to no neck room for the Mii himself. Chain Chomp will also clip thru, but because it's lower jaw sticks out, it won't be as noticeable as the other examples.

I will provide images as an example later.

Edit: "The trim on all these wrap around are cut differently, so the trim around Cacodemon's face hole does not seem to be the same as Chain Chomps. A lot of that has to do with the Mouth on the Cacodemon not being as wide as the Chain Chomp's. I still think mod or not, these match one to one on the model trim that the Nintendo team has made for other Mii hats

The good news is, it more bolsters the argument for Cacomallow being real than it does about Cacomallow being fake.

To be fair, one would have to go out of their way to be sure that such a bulky hat wouldn't clip through the other geometry on the Mii fighter, so without a lot of consideration in terms of size, of course the hat would clip through the costume or any limbs that go through it. That's the nature of the beast. What I'm basically saying here is that it would have been more effort and looked less official to go through the hassle of making the hat not clip through something or to keep the sizing in mind to where it clips as little as possible.

I think you’re not quite getting the point I’m trying to convey, which could very well be my bad because it is quite abstract, so I’m just going to put the TL;DR summary at the top and use the rest of my post to explain it.

Cacomallow is probably real, Slayer is probably not. Geno was potentially fully intended to be the first Premium Costume at one point, but was since promoted and will NOT be one. However, they created the Mallow and Smithy costumes all the way back in June to go with said costume. The Cacodemon head is in my opinion most likely going to come with the ARMS character in a similar way to the Ubisoft costumes that happened with #5.

II am saying that at one point Geno was fully going to be a premium costume, but was then negotiated for full character status and saved for that. I am saying that the Mallow costume was not made in October in preparation for #7 or #8, I’m saying that they already had it done back in June for a Geno costume launch that got cancelled when Geno got promoted.

I am also saying that Geno being a premium costume at one point but not any more explains why the Mii Costume list missed Sans: The list didn’t have premium costumes to begin with. Assuming that they didn’t just entirely delete the Geno costume files the second that he was internally promoted(which would be a profound waste of resources especially if you wanted to use the costume later as one of those joke fakeout things that they’ve been fond of), this would explain the one major inconsistency with the Mii Costume list.

Yes, both the Mii Costume list and Cacodemon have Mallow. That is not my point, it’s that if they supposedly do work on these things that ridiculously far in advance, the Mii Costume list should have either:

A. Had SNK characters on it
B. Only had the Wave #3 costumes, nothing canceled from Wave #2.

it managing to be a full leak of costumes from multiple waves while not having SNK costumes doesn’t add up if they really do have Mii Costumes for #7 and #8 fully completed ten months in advance. Especially with how the costume list itself was one of the few completely real leaks to get out, the idea that Nintendo would be willing to go and make potentially a substantially worse mistake by having the characters for #7 and #8 hanging around that far in advance and basically ready to be leaked at any time would make no sense.

As for batches, we know that that’s how Joker, Hero, and Banjo were developed. It wouldn’t make sense to suddenly work on 5-6 characters at once after that, especially when Sakurai has repeatedly mentioned winding down development with this second batch of DLC.

The point I’m trying to make here is that if the leak is real, which it very well could be, I’m theorizing that we’re most likely not seeing costumes being made in October 2019 specifically for #7 and #8. We are seeing a third-party Bethesda costume made to drop during Wave 6 similar to the Ubisoft costumes in Wave 5, alongside a costume that was designed back in June 2019 only for its associated character to get promoted, leaving it in waiting for an exceptional amount of time. Or, in other words:

Cacodemon: Developed in October 2019 for Wave 6, as part of Bethesda costumes coming with the ARMS character.
Mallow: Developed in June 2019 for Wave 2 to launch with a Geno costume, but then Geno got internally promoted to character and the Mallow costume itself got delayed until whenever the full Geno character launches in FP2.

The main thing that still seriously gets me is that if the Mii Costume list was one of the few real things to leak, I’d expect Nintendo to basically shut down any attempts to work on costumes that ridiculously far in advance. The most leak-conscious company in the world going “Yeah, sure, work on those incredibly spoilery assets for #7 and #8 that we won’t need for like ten months at the earliest”(well, before unforeseen circumstances delayed #6 to basically that point, anyway). The idea that instead they were showing off a costume meant for Wave 6 alongside a special case of a costume that was designed back in June but was suddenly held back for a full character release far later in makes a good amount more sense to me development-wise.

I realize that the point I’m trying to make with all this might be a bit abstract, but I hope it came across anyway. I’m trying to reconcile both leaks together in more specific ways than “they both have Mallow in them.”

"Don't you just want to go ape****t?"

Occam's Razor means a lot to me in situations like this. First, we assume that the Mii list was real because it got everything right aside from Mallow, Smithy, and a missing haha skeleton meme man. Then we assume that the Cacomallow leak is real because it not only corroborates the Mii list but brings a lot of proof for itself that is unique to it... and then we assume that Geno was going to be the only costume from Smash 4 to be "upgraded" by adding a head replacing mask, as if Nintendo blatantly is going to say to Square Enix "your dumb ass hat wasn't cutting it we need a full head to make the fans shut up". Then we assume that not only was Geno going to get this wild upgrade, he was going to come with two songs, another unique situation among Mii costumes, and since he was the first Costume + Song(s) in this hypothetical, every costume after him that came with one song was going to feel shortchanged in comparison, and as if this weren't enough, either he was going to be released in his own wave of Mii costumes, again, totally unprecedented in Smash Ultimate, or was going to come with Hero, either way along with two other Mii costumes from the only game he was in, and in the Hero case, we figure he'll come with Chocobo too... so Hero comes with a whopping eight costumes, or Geno gets a changed mii costume that comes with Mii costumes and music.

Compare that to assuming Mii list was real for the aforementioned reasons and assuming that Cacomallow is real for the aforementioned reasons and then just assuming that Geno was one of the first characters they decided on for Season 2. The only assumption left after that is that they removed his normal, non-upgraded costume from Hero's lineup.

How does the first set of assumptions sit right? How does that seem like even a remote possibility? It suggests that it would have happened again, maybe not even with a popular character, because while patterns don't matter, we clearly see from where we're standing that there was a pattern in how they released Mii costumes.

My opinion on the matter of the timing, which I get why that throws people off, is that the Mii costume leak is real information with fake information thrown in, that happens to have a bit of Palutena 3DS mixed in, in that it managed to get one item right out of its fake information. I know exactly why the leaker would have included Mallow, Smithy is a bit more out there, but everyone knows the implication that a Mallow costume brings. I think that it's a bit convenient that it was brought to papagenos in the first place. In order for the Mallow and Smithy costumes to be real, they would have had to have been items on a piece of paper, some kind of development list, rather than the very obviously completed piece of work we see in the Cacomallow leak. I know some people like to treat the Mii list as real, but it's just another text leak as far as I'm concerned and as much as I've gotten a little assurance here and there, the guy who supposedly sent it out just doesn't seem trustworthy.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

On the topic of Sans being sans included in the Mii List: there was that one insider that had said we were getting Undertale content but thought it was a character because we were getting music. That means that some insiders already knew we were getting Undertale content at some point. To say that Sans being missing from the list justifies the idea of a Geno costume does not hold up because insiders have not said the same thing in regards to Geno, even with a non-Frisk Undertale rep being speculated as far back as, I believe, summer of 2019. Fatman knows what I'm talking about because there was a lot of controversy between that insider and Sabi on Twitter, if I'm not mistaken.

This is the leaker who said #4 was going to be the Undertale character and used #5 to say it was Waluigi (though they were both wrong, the Undertale part was still there, just not as a fighter.)

 

[SSGuy]

To be fair, one would have to go out of their way to be sure that such a bulky hat wouldn't clip through the other geometry on the Mii fighter, so without a lot of consideration in terms of size, of course the hat would clip through the costume or any limbs that go through it. That's the nature of the beast. What I'm basically saying here is that it would have been more effort and looked less official to go through the hassle of making the hat not clip through something or to keep the sizing in mind to where it clips as little as possible.

Not entirely since most of the time when making a Mii Gunner hat, they aren't using the High Tech/Space Gunner suit as a reference. It is just an unorthodox looking Mii outfit to begin with. All of the fake Cacodemon mods would clip thru it too.

To further elaborate, the outfit has priority over every Mii Hat when it comes to overlapping or models on the same plain of existence. This is further backed up as to why so many of the Mii Hats with a ton of hair like (Viridi and Isaac) have a lot of issues or seem so transparent when the bodies bend. The Gunner's outfit is always going to overlap the Mii hat regardless of what hat it is.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Man I keep seeing the Rabbid and Altair costume get brought up and I was cool with them when I saw them but the more I see them brought up the more it just rubs salt in the wound knowing that Rayman probably isn't coming and not only is he not coming, but freaking Rabbids get a Mii costume while he's stuck as a png. It just makes me sad. Like I understand Rabbids are the new face and are popular and all and I even like Rabbids (I love Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle), but seeing Rayman get nothing just...sucks. It's one of the reasons why I'm not totally convinced Geno will come (although clearly Geno has far more fan support and evidence than Rayman, but still).

 

[Lord Woomy]

I find it so fascinating how this topic rears its ugly head so often in this thread. I made this the other day in response to a joke but it unfortunately is relevant more often than I care to think.

And yes I used the full image because maybe the sheer size of it will nail the point home.

This bird meme represents basically any theorizing over Geno so damn well. Any piece of news comes out and before we can even start theorizing on it, there's already a non-insignificant number of crows screeching about how it deconfirms Geno now. Literally anything and everything gets perverted to somehow actually be bad news for Geno, it's absurd.

 

[RingJ5]

Gotcha, okay. Sorry was a bit confused on your previous post. I don't know if I agree with Geno possibly being a premium from the get-go, I really don't, but the rest of this, yeah I'm down with that.
TL;DR on my own thoughts: At this point, I'm very unsure on Doomguy, extremely sure on Geno.

That said, where is Chocobo though? Why delay him to Geno's pack when DQ only had 4 costumes, y'know?



I just, I can't agree with Mallow and Smithy being added alongside Geno's costume being upgraded to premium. I don't see any reason to do that when both Nintendo and Square do nearly everything they can to forget SMRPG is a thing while pretending to "satisfy" fans of that game. I'd sooner believe Byleth was intended to be in FP2 but was swapped to FP1 instead (and Geno was in FP1, swapped to FP2). I don't *actually* believe that (any more), but I would sooner than think they'd add 2 more SMRPG costumes alongside Geno STILL not getting in. Just my two cents.

I get the line of logic as to why a Geno Premium Mii costume wouldn't be in the cards. Why upgrade a Mii costume if it's gonna be sold at the same price when you could just take the old costume and sell it again? But this is Nintendo and Square so selling Premium Geno for double the price of Sans wouldn't surprise me.

But I don't get the whole "Geno was gonna be upgraded but became a character hence why Mallow and Smithy costumes didn't happen" thing?

To be fair, one would have to go out of their way to be sure that such a bulky hat wouldn't clip through the other geometry on the Mii fighter, so without a lot of consideration in terms of size, of course the hat would clip through the costume or any limbs that go through it. That's the nature of the beast. What I'm basically saying here is that it would have been more effort and looked less official to go through the hassle of making the hat not clip through something or to keep the sizing in mind to where it clips as little as possible.



"Don't you just want to go ape****t?"

Occam's Razor means a lot to me in situations like this. First, we assume that the Mii list was real because it got everything right aside from Mallow, Smithy, and a missing haha skeleton meme man. Then we assume that the Cacomallow leak is real because it not only corroborates the Mii list but brings a lot of proof for itself that is unique to it... and then we assume that Geno was going to be the only costume from Smash 4 to be "upgraded" by adding a head replacing mask, as if Nintendo blatantly is going to say to Square Enix "your dumb ass hat wasn't cutting it we need a full head to make the fans shut up". Then we assume that not only was Geno going to get this wild upgrade, he was going to come with two songs, another unique situation among Mii costumes, and since he was the first Costume + Song(s) in this hypothetical, every costume after him that came with one song was going to feel shortchanged in comparison, and as if this weren't enough, either he was going to be released in his own wave of Mii costumes, again, totally unprecedented in Smash Ultimate, or was going to come with Hero, either way along with two other Mii costumes from the only game he was in, and in the Hero case, we figure he'll come with Chocobo too... so Hero comes with a whopping eight costumes, or Geno gets a changed mii costume that comes with Mii costumes and music.

Compare that to assuming Mii list was real for the aforementioned reasons and assuming that Cacomallow is real for the aforementioned reasons and then just assuming that Geno was one of the first characters they decided on for Season 2. The only assumption left after that is that they removed his normal, non-upgraded costume from Hero's lineup.

How does the first set of assumptions sit right? How does that seem like even a remote possibility? It suggests that it would have happened again, maybe not even with a popular character, because while patterns don't matter, we clearly see from where we're standing that there was a pattern in how they released Mii costumes.

My opinion on the matter of the timing, which I get why that throws people off, is that the Mii costume leak is real information with fake information thrown in, that happens to have a bit of Palutena 3DS mixed in, in that it managed to get one item right out of its fake information. I know exactly why the leaker would have included Mallow, Smithy is a bit more out there, but everyone knows the implication that a Mallow costume brings. I think that it's a bit convenient that it was brought to papagenos in the first place. In order for the Mallow and Smithy costumes to be real, they would have had to have been items on a piece of paper, some kind of development list, rather than the very obviously completed piece of work we see in the Cacomallow leak. I know some people like to treat the Mii list as real, but it's just another text leak as far as I'm concerned and as much as I've gotten a little assurance here and there, the guy who supposedly sent it out just doesn't seem trustworthy.

On the Chocobo thing, I’m going with the idea that it would have looked far, far more suspect to release Hero with Chocobo but not Geno than it would be to release Hero with neither.

As for the costume thing, well, think of it this way: Imagine, in a completely hypothetical situation(I have to keep clarifying this due to waking up to multiple people assuming that I thought that Geno would still just end up a costume after all this, I do not) that we got Geno, Mallow, and Smithy as costumes in Wave 2, with Hero. We go through all the disappointment and annoyance that that would bring, etc, etc, etc. But then, just over a month later, Sans happens. Suddenly, a meme skeleton gets an insanely faithful costume and a song to boot, when Geno was just the same old same old with two extra costumes? That would seem like even more of a significant letdown in comparison, and there’d be even more disappointment than there was the month before, because they were working on this special kind of costume this whole time yet suddenly Geno wasn’t good enough for it?

Again, this is all hypothetical and Geno will more than likely be a full character at this point, but I’d imagine that it’d just feel like rubbing salt in the wound if Geno was just a returning Wii U costume while Sans got the red carpet rolled out for him about a month later.

As for the whole “occam’s razor” thing, it works the other way as well: The simplest explanation is that Nintendo, one of the most leak-conscious companies there is right now, would want to avoid a repeat of one of the only legitimate leaks that got out during FP1’s development, and “developing costumes for Fighter #8 at least eleven months in advance when Mii Costumes were part of one of said leaks” would be practically the exact opposite of that. If the argument is that costumes are so easy and quick to develop, why do that first to begin with?

Of course, if you’re under the assumption that the Mallow/Smithy leak is fake to begin with, though, then that point is moot anyway. Though, from what I remember, the leak was actually spread around a few months before it was shared to PG, rather than it being sent to him from the start, so it being specifically bait for him doesn’t seem quite as likely.

 

[Enigma735]

Something to keep in mind with the Cacodemon hat in particular. The Mii Hats that wrap around the face will clip thru the outfit. This is because the Mii Outfit gives little to no neck room for the Mii himself. Chain Chomp will also clip thru, but because it's lower jaw sticks out, it won't be as noticeable as the other examples.

I will provide images as an example later.

Edit: "The trim on all these wrap around are cut differently, so the trim around Cacodemon's face hole does not seem to be the same as Chain Chomps. A lot of that has to do with the Mouth on the Cacodemon not being as wide as the Chain Chomp's. I still think mod or not, these match one to one on the model trim that the Nintendo team has made for other Mii hats

The good news is, it more bolsters the argument for Cacomallow being real than it does about Cacomallow being fake.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Ken leak from back in the day from like July? Ken was revealed in November so that took four months for actual confirmation of the leak, and people were disregarding the leak being fake because it hasn't happened, yet it turned out to be real the whole time. I do think the CacoMallow leak still has a possibility of being real and I think its more on the real side then on the fake side. Modders have tried to recreate this leak, but it wasn't as clean as CacoMallow and also didn't change the characters icons on the bottom, as well as freezing the timer. I will actually be shocked if we go through all of the DLC and this leak does turn out to be fake. That is how confident I am in this leak.

Also, hi I am new here.

 

[Lagguino]

So im not 100% sure on this but on a scale from 1-10 how much do you think geno is going to be a fighter. For me it's 5 because in my eyes he's either happening or not (that and im keeping my expectations in check).

 

[Polarthief]

but on a scale from 1-10 how much do you think geno is going to be a fighter

9.9. I'm that confident, but the remaining 0.1 is the paranoia in the back of my mind (mental issues suck). I'm all in; screenshot this and laugh at me if we get 2 reveals (excluding ARMS rep) in June and neither are Geno. Do it even harder if FP2 is done and still no Geno in 9-11.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

For me it rides on who the ARMS character is. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are the game's leads and Min Min and Ninjara are the game's most popular characters, and they're all Spirits or Assist Trophies. It will paint how the dev team feels about promotions: are they going to add one of the characters who essentially carried the game despite them being a Spirit/Assist Trophy, or will they break tradition of always adding the leads/most popular characters first and add someone else just because they don't want to promote anyone. It's one thing to swerve one of the main leads, which would be like swerving for the first Mario character, but to swerve the Spirits too would be like swerving as well and instead adding .

With that in mind, if the ARMS character isn't a promotion then I won't be throwing in the towel but it will put a major dent on how likely I think Geno is. Only thing that'd make it better for Geno is if the character was from a hypothetical ARMS 2 and they were added to promote it (which has its own flaws I won't get into, nor do I think that's likely).

 

[Polarthief]

For me it rides on who the ARMS character is. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are the game's leads and Min Min and Ninjara are the game's most popular characters, and they're all Spirits or Assist Trophies.

(and Twintelle too, wooooo, yay Twintelle...)

I honestly think it'd be nuts if they actually did go with a single fighter and it's NONE of the 5 though. As Fatman kept saying, there's an insane firewall put in place to prevent that. They'd really, and I mean *really* have to go out of their way to pick a not-as-popular/non-mascot/non-spirit character that I feel most would be disappointed in. I do think the secrecy is just to be like "oh btw it's FOUR characters in one! :D", because if they were just gonna throw Spring Man at us, it's so silly to make us wait another over 2 months when they could have just ripped the bandage off, y'know? Doesn't really make a lot of sense to be all "WHOOOO IIIIIISSS IIIIIT?!" to just reveal *the* most obvious pick.

 

[MattX20]

Like Polar, I'm fairly confident in Geno with a 9 at this point.

 

[Polarthief]

Like Polar, I'm fairly confident in Geno with a 9 at this point.

7.8/10, too much water evidence.

 

[SSGuy]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Ken leak from back in the day from like July? Ken was revealed in November so that took four months for actual confirmation of the leak, and people were disregarding the leak being fake because it hasn't happened, yet it turned out to be real the whole time. I do think the CacoMallow leak still has a possibility of being real and I think its more on the real side then on the fake side. Modders have tried to recreate this leak, but it wasn't as clean as CacoMallow and also didn't change the characters icons on the bottom, as well as freezing the timer. I will actually be shocked if we go through all of the DLC and this leak does turn out to be fake. That is how confident I am in this leak.

Also, hi I am new here.

Welcome!~

There was a list of Banjo's Mii Costumes that was leaked and included Mallow, Smithy and Chocobo as costumes that was made in July. It was actually pre-Hero's Direct. That leak also stated Crash Bandicoot was going to also be a fighter which has not happened yet. This list is separate from the Cacodemon/Mallow Leak that was made end of October, early November. So they are two separate things that both talk about a Mallow Mii costume.

I'm going to be so mad if Geno only ends up as a Mii costume lol

 

[Powerman293]

So im not 100% sure on this but on a scale from 1-10 how much do you think geno is going to be a fighter. For me it's 5 because in my eyes he's either happening or not (that and im keeping my expectations in check).

A solid 5. I think Nintendo has heard the fan demand, but I just think there's been so many other characters that have gotten the team's interest before Geno.

Hopefully given how much time it's been since people first requested him, surely the odds have only gone up since then. But that's not necessarily how it works.

 

[HudU]

Something to keep in mind with the Cacodemon hat in particular. The Mii Hats that wrap around the face will clip thru the outfit. This is because the Mii Outfit gives little to no neck room for the Mii himself. Chain Chomp will also clip thru, but because it's lower jaw sticks out, it won't be as noticeable as the other examples.

I will provide images as an example later.

Edit: "The trim on all these wrap around are cut differently, so the trim around Cacodemon's face hole does not seem to be the same as Chain Chomps. A lot of that has to do with the Mouth on the Cacodemon not being as wide as the Chain Chomp's. I still think mod or not, these match one to one on the model trim that the Nintendo team has made for other Mii hats

The good news is, it more bolsters the argument for Cacomallow being real than it does about Cacomallow being fake.

I love how even the slight details make it more believable.

 

[Enigma735]

Welcome!~

There was a list of Banjo's Mii Costumes that was leaked and included Mallow, Smithy and Chocobo as costumes that was made in July. It was actually pre-Hero's Direct. That leak also stated Crash Bandicoot was going to also be a fighter which has not happened yet. This list is separate from the Cacodemon/Mallow Leak that was made end of October, early November. So they are two separate things that both talk about a Mallow Mii costume.

I'm going to be so mad if Geno only ends up as a Mii costume lol

Same here lol but I think Geno has a strong chance of being playable so I'm not worried too much.

 

[papagenos]

Welcome!~

There was a list of Banjo's Mii Costumes that was leaked and included Mallow, Smithy and Chocobo as costumes that was made in July. It was actually pre-Hero's Direct. That leak also stated Crash Bandicoot was going to also be a fighter which has not happened yet. This list is separate from the Cacodemon/Mallow Leak that was made end of October, early November. So they are two separate things that both talk about a Mallow Mii costume.

I'm going to be so mad if Geno only ends up as a Mii costume lol

To clarify the Crash thing:

Although the person with the Mii costume list said hearing "Crash" is coming from the same "person" as the where they got he Mii costume list, it isnt clear if that persons "Source" (confusing I know) is the same. So the actual origin of the Mii costume list and hearing crash might not be the same so they might not be related other than they both got passed along through to the same line of people.

It's like a game of telephone and just because looking 2 people back is the same as before, the person who actually started the "game of telephone" for the Mii costume leak AND Crash might be a totally different person. We aren't sure, we can't see that far down the chain of info.

So I personally am not considering them fully linked together and suggests others don't either, I tried to explain this in the past but I understand things get very confusing especially with multiple anonymous "sources" being strung together.

 

[Sigran101]

I'd honestly prefer getting no remixes. Don't get me wrong, I do like the Smash remixes, but they often fail to capture the quality of the original song and what made them so good in the first place (see: Banjo-Kazooie).

If I had choose, then I'd say Tomoya Ohtani. I doubt we'd get him, as none of the composers from SEGA have returned for DLC, but I feel the style used in games such as Sonic Forces could be a good fit for songs such as Weapons Factory or Fight Against Smithy.

This may be an old post, but I feel the need to point out the amazing smash remix of "beneath the mask" from Persona 5.

 

[OffBi]

To clarify the Crash thing:

Although the person with the Mii costume list said hearing "Crash" is coming from the same "person" as the where they got he Mii costume list, it isnt clear if that persons "Source" (confusing I know) is the same. So the actual origin of the Mii costume list and hearing crash might not be the same so they might not be related other than they both got passed along through to the same line of people.

It's like a game of telephone and just because looking 2 people back is the same as before, the person who actually started the "game of telephone" for the Mii costume leak AND Crash might be a totally different person. We aren't sure, we can't see that far down the chain of info.

So I personally am not considering them fully linked together and suggests others don't either, I tried to explain this in the past but I understand things get very confusing especially with multiple anonymous "sources" being strung together.

Hello papa

 

[Firox]

For me it rides on who the ARMS character is. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are the game's leads and Min Min and Ninjara are the game's most popular characters, and they're all Spirits or Assist Trophies. It will paint how the dev team feels about promotions: are they going to add one of the characters who essentially carried the game despite them being a Spirit/Assist Trophy, or will they break tradition of always adding the leads/most popular characters first and add someone else just because they don't want to promote anyone. It's one thing to swerve one of the main leads, which would be like swerving for the first Mario character, but to swerve the Spirits too would be like swerving as well and instead adding .

With that in mind, if the ARMS character isn't a promotion then I won't be throwing in the towel but it will put a major dent on how likely I think Geno is. Only thing that'd make it better for Geno is if the character was from a hypothetical ARMS 2 and they were added to promote it (which has its own flaws I won't get into, nor do I think that's likely).

THIS. Just to reiterate, the ARMS character will tell us everything we need to know about Sakurai's intentions/self-limitations. If we get a promotion through Springman, Ribbon Girl, Min Min or Ninjara, then Geno is virtually a lock. Or at very least, there shouldn't be anything standing in his way besides an OK from Nintendo and/or SE. However, if Sakurai goes out of his way to avoid a promotion with someone like Mechanica or Max Brass then it will be a HEAVY blow to Geno's chances because it will pretty much confirm that spirits/AT's deconfirm. Not a straight deconfirm, mind you, but a heavy blow none the less. As of right now though, I'd honestly give Geno a 70-80% chance of getting in. More positive than not but still with room to get snuffed by Nintendo/SE's idiocy or nepotism.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Ken leak from back in the day from like July? Ken was revealed in November so that took four months for actual confirmation of the leak, and people were disregarding the leak being fake because it hasn't happened, yet it turned out to be real the whole time. I do think the CacoMallow leak still has a possibility of being real and I think its more on the real side then on the fake side. Modders have tried to recreate this leak, but it wasn't as clean as CacoMallow and also didn't change the characters icons on the bottom, as well as freezing the timer. I will actually be shocked if we go through all of the DLC and this leak does turn out to be fake. That is how confident I am in this leak.

Also, hi I am new here.

Welcome to the cool kids club. Someone get this rookie a Geno hat!

So im not 100% sure on this but on a scale from 1-10 how much do you think geno is going to be a fighter. For me it's 5 because in my eyes he's either happening or not (that and im keeping my expectations in check).

For me it's a 7. Which is very high for my standards. I haven't been part of speculation for long but few speculated characters achieve greater than a 5. Hero is the only character I've been sure of. Terry was only about an 8.5 after Nintendo basically leaked him themselves. So 7 is pretty darn good. Geno has the highest likelihood now in my eyes out of remaining characters. Dante is about a 5.5 everyone else is 5 except like Master Chief I just don't see happening so he's like a 3. Geno's evidence is largely circumstantial and takes some reaching and connecting the dots to real really amount to much. Despite the fact that it's circumstantial, the sheer amount of added up evidence along with the very likely possibility that ARMS character will finally disconfirm the fan rules about spirits preventing characters from being DLC and thus also proving that pass 2 will be different from pass 1 just like people were speculating it would be makes me think that Geno has an incredibly high chance but is by no means guaranteed.

 

[Polarthief]

THIS. Just to reiterate, the ARMS character will tell us everything we need to know about Sakurai's intentions/self-limitations. If we get a promotion through Springman, Ribbon Girl, Min Min or Ninjara, then Geno is virtually a lock.

Honestly, he's basically confirming if Spirits deconfirm or not. The only way to confirm it is to dodge ALL the most popular characters such as Min-Min, Ninjara, and Twintelle, as well as the mascots Spring Man and Ribbon Girl. I just do not see that happening; if he would want to use another character purely for playstyle/mechanics (like Lola Pop's inflation for example), he'd sooner incorporate it into another character, like how he gave plenty of Richter's moves to Simon (even though Richter is also playable).

Legit, I am not worried, but my nagging paranoia is because ugh paranoia.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Legit, I am not worried, but my nagging paranoia is because ugh paranoia.

You've done it, you've accurately described how Smash speculation has been to me since, like, July lol

 

[Let Geno Smash]

So im not 100% sure on this but on a scale from 1-10 how much do you think geno is going to be a fighter. For me it's 5 because in my eyes he's either happening or not (that and im keeping my expectations in check).

For me is 9,7 my only fears are
-Square will allow nintendo to use geno instead of a character that suits them better economically as Sora, 2B or lara croft?
-Nintendo is aware that the Smash DLC'S give them a lot of profit, knowing that, they will have chosen Geno, who does not leave them much profit and is pure fanservice?
Even with that i still with hope

 

[Andwooooo]

Honestly, he's basically confirming if Spirits deconfirm or not. The only way to confirm it is to dodge ALL the most popular characters such as Min-Min, Ninjara, and Twintelle, as well as the mascots Spring Man and Ribbon Girl. I just do not see that happening; if he would want to use another character purely for playstyle/mechanics (like Lola Pop's inflation for example), he'd sooner incorporate it into another character, like how he gave plenty of Richter's moves to Simon (even though Richter is also playable).

Legit, I am not worried, but my nagging paranoia is because ugh paranoia.

Fortunately/unfortunately, I don’t believe we’ll have a whole lotta time to speculate once the ARMS character is revealed, because I’m betting that Geno will be revealed 20 - 30 minutes later.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Fortunately/unfortunately, I don’t believe we’ll have a whole lotta time to speculate once the ARMS character is revealed, because I’m betting that Geno will be revealed 20 - 30 minutes later.

Bigg agree. Even if Arms character is revealed in a presentation before E3 (like Roy and Ryu) I still think we have a week to wait at the absolute maximum.

 

[Sigran101]

Fortunately/unfortunately, I don’t believe we’ll have a whole lotta time to speculate once the ARMS character is revealed, because I’m betting that Geno will be revealed 20 - 30 minutes later.

I'm of the mindset that Geno will likely be 8 or later. I'm expecting Rex to be next, in order to get the characters that should have been in base game out of the way. But hopefully we get 2 more reveals aside from ARMS in June, so even if I'm right this could still happen.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Oh wow, this thread is dead.

Yep. Talked about it a few weeks ago but it kind of kills the argument that I just made stuff up because, good god, I could have a hayday right now if I was a pathological liar because of the absolute info desert right now. Basically there's not much to talk about because:

-Nintendo's cracking down a lot harder than ever before.

-Corona has made people even more fearful of losing their jobs (unemployed during a pandemic is a pretty scary prospect) so even the mild risk for some people is no longer worth it.

-Just increased hostility towards people who share things in general. You all have heard my side of things but I do feel bad for others too. Even when people get things right, they're likely to either be harassed for more or because some people think it's immoral. I'm kind of used to it but I'm seeing other people get introduced to the wonderful world of angry Nintendo fans and nopeing TF out after their first wave of online harassment.

 

[MisterMike]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Ken leak from back in the day from like July? Ken was revealed in November so that took four months for actual confirmation of the leak, and people were disregarding the leak being fake because it hasn't happened, yet it turned out to be real the whole time. I do think the CacoMallow leak still has a possibility of being real and I think its more on the real side then on the fake side. Modders have tried to recreate this leak, but it wasn't as clean as CacoMallow and also didn't change the characters icons on the bottom, as well as freezing the timer. I will actually be shocked if we go through all of the DLC and this leak does turn out to be fake. That is how confident I am in this leak.

Also, hi I am new here.

Welcome to the thread! Complimentary Geno Hat:

So im not 100% sure on this but on a scale from 1-10 how much do you think geno is going to be a fighter. For me it's 5 because in my eyes he's either happening or not (that and im keeping my expectations in check).

I'm at a 7. I think given all that's happened since June/July there's no doubt that we'll be getting something SMRPG related soon.

-Corona has made people even more fearful of losing their jobs (unemployed during a pandemic is a pretty scary prospect) so even the mild risk for some people is no longer worth it.

>Resident Evil 8/4 Remake leakers be like:

 

[SSGuy]

I'm kind of used to it but I'm seeing other people get introduced to the wonderful world of angry Nintendo fans and nopeing TF out after their first wave of online harassment.

It's all fun and games until the Zoomers come in and take everything as life or death. Clout may as well be considered cancer at this point because anyone who looks for it might as well have it.

 

[Deleted member]

Man I keep seeing the Rabbid and Altair costume get brought up and I was cool with them when I saw them but the more I see them brought up the more it just rubs salt in the wound knowing that Rayman probably isn't coming and not only is he not coming, but freaking Rabbids get a Mii costume while he's stuck as a png. It just makes me sad. Like I understand Rabbids are the new face and are popular and all and I even like Rabbids (I love Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle), but seeing Rayman get nothing just...sucks. It's one of the reasons why I'm not totally convinced Geno will come (although clearly Geno has far more fan support and evidence than Rayman, but still).

At least Rayman has the excuse of being nearly impossible to make a faithful Mii costume out of. I'm going into some heavy speculation about Sakurai's philosophies and Ubisoft's policies, but I think it could just be that when Sakurai thinks Rayman, he thinks the very first Rayman game, but Ubisoft would prefer that any representation of Rayman is the modern Legends/Origins style. Often times people pin the blame on Sega for a similar reasoning behind why Sonic doesn't change color to pay homage to his friends or a powerup like Super Sonic, but other than that I can't think of any proof that a third party has outright kept their character out of the game over design conflict or that Sakurai has turned down a character for that reason. But, even Rayman's spirit is his modern design, despite the fact that many spirits aim for the oldest piece of artwork they could get a high quality scan of.

On the Chocobo thing, I’m going with the idea that it would have looked far, far more suspect to release Hero with Chocobo but not Geno than it would be to release Hero with neither.

As for the costume thing, well, think of it this way: Imagine, in a completely hypothetical situation(I have to keep clarifying this due to waking up to multiple people assuming that I thought that Geno would still just end up a costume after all this, I do not) that we got Geno, Mallow, and Smithy as costumes in Wave 2, with Hero. We go through all the disappointment and annoyance that that would bring, etc, etc, etc. But then, just over a month later, Sans happens. Suddenly, a meme skeleton gets an insanely faithful costume and a song to boot, when Geno was just the same old same old with two extra costumes? That would seem like even more of a significant letdown in comparison, and there’d be even more disappointment than there was the month before, because they were working on this special kind of costume this whole time yet suddenly Geno wasn’t good enough for it?

Again, this is all hypothetical and Geno will more than likely be a full character at this point, but I’d imagine that it’d just feel like rubbing salt in the wound if Geno was just a returning Wii U costume while Sans got the red carpet rolled out for him about a month later.

As for the whole “occam’s razor” thing, it works the other way as well: The simplest explanation is that Nintendo, one of the most leak-conscious companies there is right now, would want to avoid a repeat of one of the only legitimate leaks that got out during FP1’s development, and “developing costumes for Fighter #8 at least eleven months in advance when Mii Costumes were part of one of said leaks” would be practically the exact opposite of that. If the argument is that costumes are so easy and quick to develop, why do that first to begin with?

Of course, if you’re under the assumption that the Mallow/Smithy leak is fake to begin with, though, then that point is moot anyway. Though, from what I remember, the leak was actually spread around a few months before it was shared to PG, rather than it being sent to him from the start, so it being specifically bait for him doesn’t seem quite as likely.

Sorry if I came off seeming to think that you believe Geno is only coming back as a costume - that's not the case at all. What I'm hoping you'll take away from this is that there is no "premium" costume, and if there were, Geno would not be getting one. Sans got an "insanely faithful costume" because how the hell would they botch it? I seriously want someone to come up with some way that Sans could get a costume and it not be faithful.

I understand that to you, "faithful" is the issue, but you need to understand that these costumes aren't all made to be faithful, some of them are made for this really rare concept called "fun".

Is this the best Nintendo could do to make K.K. Slider into a Mii hat? Of course not. They could have given him the full head treatment. But they didn't, because they didn't want to. It's funny to wear the K.K. Slider hoodie. This may not be the entire reason, but it's an attempt to illustrate the point that a decision is made by someone on how to represent the character, and sometimes they go with a comical approach. I mean, the full costume has K.K. Slider shooting lasers from the tip of his guitar... Why wouldn't they have some fun with that?

Another thing to keep in mind is that there's almost no way the original designers or a designer from the home franchise of these costumes isn't consulted on the design of the costume, and even if they aren't, Toby Fox was consulted on the design of the Sans costume. I guess that he could have told them "the body is fine, let's just ignore the head", but the thing about costumes with a visible face barring costumes like K.K. that are intentionally designed to be funny, the character has a natural skin tone. There is no bone white for Mii fighters, and I don't think they would have ever expected us to do something like that.

I drew some ****ty mock-ups of the alternative Sans costumes that would have been "unfaithful"; let's say he gets the K.K. Slider treatment:

Horrifying. Also he kind of looks like Papyrus. That's not very representative of Sans. How about a hat:

Well, it's better! But maybe it could be confused for a Team Skull hat? Or to be more realistic, it's just the top of a skeleton head. At that point, you're really treating Sans like a meme - any skeleton could be Sans and Sans could be any skeleton.

Is this working against my point? Are you going to tell me "well since they could have done that it means that they put extra effort into Sans!" But that means that since they didn't do this for Black Knight, or Ray Mk-III or Samus, Meta Knight, Spring Man and Ribbon Girl, those are all "premium" costumes with extra effort put into them.

Ultimately, the design choices don't really make a lot of sense. I don't think there's a pattern to it, they just do what they think looks right for whatever they're going for. Or maybe I can go for the low hanging fruit and say "I sure do remember when Sans put a Gaster Blaster on his arm and started blasting", which is the biggest inconsistency with his costume.

Look back at my first long post about costumes and why they don't have "premium" variants. Geno is not that important. If Sakurai thought in Smash 4 that Geno's costume was a good enough representation of him, then if he has no intention of making a fighter out of him, and has an intention to get the costume back, we're getting that costume. He's not getting upgraded, he never was getting upgraded, there is no "upgrade". I think the most likely scenario, which was dodged for some reason:

Hero revealed. Comes with his Dragon Quest costumes, and Chocobo. Then we would have gotten a Sans-esque fade to black -> Smash x Super Mario RPG -> Geno's original costume, Beware the Forest's Mushrooms track. He does some vaguely Geno things and that's it. Nothing would have changed, Sakurai would have shrugged and told us it's better than nothing. It still might happen, rude as that would feel, but I am so confident that we're not going to see an "upgraded" Geno costume I promise you I will buy the thing for you if he comes with some kind of new head to be more "faithful".

 

[Deleted member]

This may be an old post, but I feel the need to point out the amazing smash remix of "beneath the mask" from Persona 5.

I'm not saying they're all bad, there are some remixes that I do like (Norfair, F-ZERO Medley, Bomb Rush Blush), it's just that most of them fail to be good, and I'd rather not risk getting a ton of bad remixes for the chance that one of them might be good.

 

[MisterMike]

I drew some ****ty mock-ups of the alternative Sans costumes that would have been "unfaithful"; let's say he gets the K.K. Slider treatment:

View attachment 269297

Holy ****, that's terrifying.

 

[Polarthief]

You've done it, you've accurately described how Smash speculation has been to me since, like, July lol

I mean, my paranoia stems from actual paranoia, anxiety, etc. I got the short end of the stick for mental health genes, sadly.

Fortunately/unfortunately, I don’t believe we’ll have a whole lotta time to speculate once the ARMS character is revealed, because I’m betting that Geno will be revealed 20 - 30 minutes later.

I... kinda disagree to an extent actually. I really do think we'll get a Sakurai video in May so the June direct is free for a double reveal. If we end up getting the ARMS reveal in the June direct, that means we basically went like 4.5 months without a character reveal, 4.5 months without ANY FP2 characters revealed, AND it's eating up one of the June slots.

I'm of the mindset that Geno will likely be 8 or later. I'm expecting Rex to be next, in order to get the characters that should have been in base game out of the way.

Ugh I didn't even think of that; thanks for adding that to the paranoia's fuel to the fire.

I do think Geno will be at the June direct though, assuming the heavy Mario rumors are true. I know Nintendo doesn't usually make sense, but I'd think they'd want to push "Mario Mario Mario" as hard as they can, and Geno pushes Mario while Rex doesn't. Plus, and don't hate me for this, but Rex just isn't a great E3 pick unless they suddenly want to start pushing Xenoblade a lot harder.

I'm in the mindset that Rex (and Pyra?) is in FP2, but not in the first half.