Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Man I really wanted Protoman but I know he's basically dead in the water at this point.

Anything can happen though, as proven by Batman's rival :D

PokéfreakofBACON really? I didn't like Corrin, but he is on my roster. It's weird. I didn't like his inclusion, and there was no reason for me to buy him, but I did.

I wish there was an option for me to buy Geno and Ninten multiple times if they get in

 

[Krooli]

Yeah Pheonix would be sick ngl he’d also come with some dope music it always was slightly weird to me that Pheonix didn’t even get a spirit since he’s basically capcom’s only Nintendo exclusive franchise.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Anything can happen though, as proven by Batman's rival :D

PokéfreakofBACON really? I didn't like Corrin, but he is on my roster. It's weird. I didn't like his inclusion, and there was no reason for me to buy him, but I did.

I wish there was an option for me to buy Geno and Ninten multiple times if they get in

Yes really. Cloud got in, and I was like, alright sure why not. This might mean Geno gets in in the future? Corrin got in and I was mad. They literally made a Smash ballot to ask who we want, and gave us a character nobody asked for? Then they finished off that direct claiming that Bayonetta won the ballot, which she didn't. I was pissed off and didn't buy any of them. I imagine I'm not the only one, either. My roster was big enough back in Smash 4. Why would I buy a character I'd never want to play?

 

[Deleted member]

Yes really. Cloud got in, and I was like, alright sure why not. This might mean Geno gets in in the future? Corrin got in and I was mad. They literally made a Smash ballot to ask who we want, and gave us a character nobody asked for? Then they finished off that direct claiming that Bayonetta won the ballot, which she didn't. I was pissed off and didn't buy any of them. I imagine I'm not the only one, either. My roster was big enough back in Smash 4. Why would I buy a character I'd never want to play?

You never know! I wasn't interested in Young Link when I was waiting for Ultimate, but he is one of my favorite characters in the game now. I wasn't super interested in Mewtwo either in Smash 4, but I bought him and he was fun as hell

 

[The Anigriffin]

I remember thinking Cloud in Smash was a joke. That was until I booted up my Wii U and checked the eShop and immediatly went "Oh. Oh my."

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

You never know! I wasn't interested in Young Link when I was waiting for Ultimate, but he is one of my favorite characters in the game now. I wasn't super interested in Mewtwo either in Smash 4, but I bought him and he was fun as hell

Not to come across as "lol i'm actually a genius" but I was totally right about not liking Corrin/Bayo's moveset once I got to play them in Ultimate. They're both just as weird and unfun for me as I was expecting. Cloud is pretty alright, but I didn't expect to hate his playstyle anyway.

 

[ForsakenM]

I'm sorry guys, I hate to rain on the parade when there are already talks of cancelling it altogether, but I feel like Geno's chances aren't as great as we might hope. I know that the argument of 'Spirits deconfirm' and 'Spirits don't deconfirm' is still very up in the air, but that is not the argument I'm about to make.

Rather than all Spirits deconfirming or not, what if certain Spirits deconfirmed certain characters?

I think we can all agree this is a fair assumption: many of these characters would never have a chance to be a fighter (Zapfish, Ness's Dad, etc.) but we need to pay special attention to other Spirits and certain qualities about them. Some Spirits had more effort put into them than others, and frankly I think that is one of the things that puts Geno out of the race.

Now I haven't played World of Light like at all, and most Let's Play's I have seen haven't gotten to him, but I've heard that his Spirit battle is one you have to kinda go out of your way to find, close to that of a secret or easter egg it you will (Just looked up a vid of the Spirit battle, and it's in the space section of WoL, don't you need a specific Spirit to even get there?). Not only that, but his battle has a lot more put into it than others: you don't just fight a blue Sheik that focuses on her needles and build FS Meter faster, but also a Mario, Peach, Kirby and Bowser that have small things about them that reference certain things about SMRPG. The stage is Mario Galaxy, the closest thing Smash has to stars and Star Hill, and they even make it so that there are only three opponents at a time because that's how many active party members you could have in SMRPG. Hell, Peach heals herself at a set time interval, Mario spawns with a shell to throw, Sheik spawns with the Scope Lens and the stage spawns only star-related items! This is a big love-letter packed with references, not to mention the fight can be one of the more difficult ones and that can make obtaining him that much more rewarding.

Now look at Geno himself: he is a Legendary Spirit...a BASE Legendary Spirit, and when maxed out he is one of the strongest in the game at 10,000 power (which, in itself, is a reference to SMRPG). He's an Attack Type with stronger offense than defense and he has the max number of slots at three. All of this love poured into references and his battle and making him so strong of a Spirit are all reasons I think he won't make it as DLC, that this is once again the best that Sakurai could manage for us Geno fans.

 

[GrungeMan]

Just wanted to drop by and wish all my fellow Geno fans a happy holidays!!

Still working through the thread since Joker's reveal, so I might quote a couple posters from 2-3 weeks ago haha I know, I know... Super late!

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm sorry guys, I hate to rain on the parade when there are already talks of cancelling it altogether, but I feel like Geno's chances aren't as great as we might hope. I know that the argument of 'Spirits deconfirm' and 'Spirits don't deconfirm' is still very up in the air, but that is not the argument I'm about to make.

Rather than all Spirits deconfirming or not, what if certain Spirits deconfirmed certain characters?

I think we can all agree this is a fair assumption: many of these characters would never have a chance to be a fighter (Zapfish, Ness's Dad, etc.) but we need to pay special attention to other Spirits and certain qualities about them. Some Spirits had more effort put into them than others, and frankly I think that is one of the things that puts Geno out of the race.

Now I haven't played World of Light like at all, and most Let's Play's I have seen haven't gotten to him, but I've heard that his Spirit battle is one you have to kinda go out of your way to find, close to that of a secret or easter egg it you will (Just looked up a vid of the Spirit battle, and it's in the space section of WoL, don't you need a specific Spirit to even get there?). Not only that, but his battle has a lot more put into it than others: you don't just fight a blue Sheik that focuses on her needles and build FS Meter faster, but also a Mario, Peach, Kirby and Bowser that have small things about them that reference certain things about SMRPG. The stage is Mario Galaxy, the closest thing Smash has to stars and Star Hill, and they even make it so that there are only three opponents at a time because that's how many active party members you could have in SMRPG. Hell, Peach heals herself at a set time interval, Mario spawns with a shell to throw, Sheik spawns with the Scope Lens and the stage spawns only star-related items! This is a big love-letter packed with references, not to mention the fight can be one of the more difficult ones and that can make obtaining him that much more rewarding.

Now look at Geno himself: he is a Legendary Spirit...a BASE Legendary Spirit, and when maxed out he is one of the strongest in the game at 10,000 power (which, in itself, is a reference to SMRPG). He's an Attack Type with stronger offense than defense and he has the max number of slots at three. All of this love poured into references and his battle and making him so strong of a Spirit are all reasons I think he won't make it as DLC, that this is once again the best that Sakurai could manage for us Geno fans.

Well they aren't gonna give the Legend rank to just any character, and they've given solid references to characters who definitely aren't gonna be playable.

Also Sakurai had a separate team do research and stuff for Spirits, and he seems to have let other people do most of the work this time around anyway (according to a recent interview).

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I'm sorry guys, I hate to rain on the parade when there are already talks of cancelling it altogether, but I feel like Geno's chances aren't as great as we might hope. I know that the argument of 'Spirits deconfirm' and 'Spirits don't deconfirm' is still very up in the air, but that is not the argument I'm about to make.

Rather than all Spirits deconfirming or not, what if certain Spirits deconfirmed certain characters?

I think we can all agree this is a fair assumption: many of these characters would never have a chance to be a fighter (Zapfish, Ness's Dad, etc.) but we need to pay special attention to other Spirits and certain qualities about them. Some Spirits had more effort put into them than others, and frankly I think that is one of the things that puts Geno out of the race.

Now I haven't played World of Light like at all, and most Let's Play's I have seen haven't gotten to him, but I've heard that his Spirit battle is one you have to kinda go out of your way to find, close to that of a secret or easter egg it you will (Just looked up a vid of the Spirit battle, and it's in the space section of WoL, don't you need a specific Spirit to even get there?). Not only that, but his battle has a lot more put into it than others: you don't just fight a blue Sheik that focuses on her needles and build FS Meter faster, but also a Mario, Peach, Kirby and Bowser that have small things about them that reference certain things about SMRPG. The stage is Mario Galaxy, the closest thing Smash has to stars and Star Hill, and they even make it so that there are only three opponents at a time because that's how many active party members you could have in SMRPG. Hell, Peach heals herself at a set time interval, Mario spawns with a shell to throw, Sheik spawns with the Scope Lens and the stage spawns only star-related items! This is a big love-letter packed with references, not to mention the fight can be one of the more difficult ones and that can make obtaining him that much more rewarding.

Now look at Geno himself: he is a Legendary Spirit...a BASE Legendary Spirit, and when maxed out he is one of the strongest in the game at 10,000 power (which, in itself, is a reference to SMRPG). He's an Attack Type with stronger offense than defense and he has the max number of slots at three. All of this love poured into references and his battle and making him so strong of a Spirit are all reasons I think he won't make it as DLC, that this is once again the best that Sakurai could manage for us Geno fans.

There are a ton of spirits with a significantly larger amount of thought put into them than this, and his spirit isn't in a hidden area or anything, it's just in an area which is near the end. One of two areas you have to reach Galeem. He's not "one of the strongest," and I can confirm that personally because I have SEVERAL spirits much stronger than him. He's not the only one with exactly 10k at level 99, either. It just happens to be the sum of his attack and defense at that level.

By the way, the spirit fight is literally just a fight against 5 characters, and while they obviously reference SMRPG in a fun way, it's not like they rendered any models or did anything specifically for this one fight. They just have you fight all the party members of SMRPG, finishing with Geno. Mario starts holding a koopa shell. That's really it. Several other spirit fights are more complicated than this.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sorry guys, I hate to rain on the parade when there are already talks of cancelling it altogether, but I feel like Geno's chances aren't as great as we might hope. I know that the argument of 'Spirits deconfirm' and 'Spirits don't deconfirm' is still very up in the air, but that is not the argument I'm about to make.

Rather than all Spirits deconfirming or not, what if certain Spirits deconfirmed certain characters?

I think we can all agree this is a fair assumption: many of these characters would never have a chance to be a fighter (Zapfish, Ness's Dad, etc.) but we need to pay special attention to other Spirits and certain qualities about them. Some Spirits had more effort put into them than others, and frankly I think that is one of the things that puts Geno out of the race.

Now I haven't played World of Light like at all, and most Let's Play's I have seen haven't gotten to him, but I've heard that his Spirit battle is one you have to kinda go out of your way to find, close to that of a secret or easter egg it you will (Just looked up a vid of the Spirit battle, and it's in the space section of WoL, don't you need a specific Spirit to even get there?). Not only that, but his battle has a lot more put into it than others: you don't just fight a blue Sheik that focuses on her needles and build FS Meter faster, but also a Mario, Peach, Kirby and Bowser that have small things about them that reference certain things about SMRPG. The stage is Mario Galaxy, the closest thing Smash has to stars and Star Hill, and they even make it so that there are only three opponents at a time because that's how many active party members you could have in SMRPG. Hell, Peach heals herself at a set time interval, Mario spawns with a shell to throw, Sheik spawns with the Scope Lens and the stage spawns only star-related items! This is a big love-letter packed with references, not to mention the fight can be one of the more difficult ones and that can make obtaining him that much more rewarding.

Now look at Geno himself: he is a Legendary Spirit...a BASE Legendary Spirit, and when maxed out he is one of the strongest in the game at 10,000 power (which, in itself, is a reference to SMRPG). He's an Attack Type with stronger offense than defense and he has the max number of slots at three. All of this love poured into references and his battle and making him so strong of a Spirit are all reasons I think he won't make it as DLC, that this is once again the best that Sakurai could manage for us Geno fans.

Different group decided the spirits, not Sakurai.

Note the lack of Super Mario RPG music as well. They were able to use it in Smash 4, so why isn't it in this game?

Plus, you know who else are legendary spirits? Super Sonic, Kaptain K Rool, and Link (The Legend of Zelda).

You are panicking too quickly, my friend

 

[Tetrin]

Isn't it funny how it was too expensive to keep Geno in the remake of Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga but now he is all of a sudden in Ultimate? If it was too expensive to keep him in the remake, how did they include him in this game?

Hmm....

Honestly, it's not that odd. It goes without saying that Smash would outsell the Superstar Saga remake, not to mention Geno is vastly more requested to appear in Smash than have a cameo in a substantially less popular game. Plus, Smash almost definitely had a higher budget than Superstar Saga, so it's money well spent to include him where he's most wanted instead of paying an expensive amount of money to Square to include him in a game far less people would buy.

 

[MondoMega]

The number itself is not exactly 10,000 at level 99, either.

I agree with everything else in your post, but my Geno is at Level 99 and the number is exactly 10,000. Just something small I want to correct.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I agree with everything else in your post, but my Geno is at Level 99 and the number is exactly 10,000. Just something small I want to correct.

Yeah you're right, I edited my post pretty quickly after checking. I was hoping no one would notice lmao

 

[bardbowman]

I agree with everything else in your post, but my Geno is at Level 99 and the number is exactly 10,000. Just something small I want to correct.

I’ve said it before, but they really missed an opportunity with this one...It should’ve been 9,999.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I’ve said it before, but they really missed an opportunity with this one...It should’ve been 9,999.

Power is literally just adding the attack and defense stats together, and I believe attack and defense stats probably follow an algorithm from a base value, so it'd be really difficult to do that.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Yes really. Cloud got in, and I was like, alright sure why not. This might mean Geno gets in in the future? Corrin got in and I was mad. They literally made a Smash ballot to ask who we want, and gave us a character nobody asked for? Then they finished off that direct claiming that Bayonetta won the ballot, which she didn't. I was pissed off and didn't buy any of them. I imagine I'm not the only one, either. My roster was big enough back in Smash 4. Why would I buy a character I'd never want to play?

Cloud was the one who took the cake for me, I liked him because he opened the door for Geno. Corrin got in because of Nintendo, that's why everyone was afraid of Nintendo picking the DLC. Before Corrin's inclusion, Sakurai even said that there are too many Fire Emblem reps; it's clear that he was there to promote a game. So many people were disappointed, and I love how all the weeaboos were shooting people down for hating Corrin; they don't realize that people HAVE THE RIGHT to their opinion, and I absolutely hated Corrin... hell, I still do! I use him as a CPU punching bag all the time.

I actually got some info before the ballot came, and my friend who I've known for years (he's literally a friend I play Smash with all the time) got ahold of some info about Bayonetta being chosen as DLC; I had no clue who she was, but decided to wait and see. The official ballot was announced just a little bit later after he told me about her (I thought Bayonetta wasn't involved with the ballot, but boy was I wrong). I waited until Bayonetta was announced and what do you know, she was revealed (Shocked that my friend was right) and announced as the "winner" of the ballot; at this point on, I knew the ballot was completely rigged since she was already planned before the ballot. And earlier in 2018 it was announced to the public that Bayonetta was planned before the ballot, so my friend was right. My friend didn't give me any info on Cloud or Corrin, he only knew about Bayonetta being DLC. Also, I don't care about this one since I love Cloud, but I find it hard to believe that a Final Fantasy character got 1/4 or 1/3 of the votes. I believe Sakurai wanted to get a FF character in the game to get on Square's good side, that way he can build a steady relationship with them to see if he could try and get Geno next time. If the ballot was never rigged, I'm absolutely sure King K. Rool would've been the final newcomer for Smash 4 (However, I'm REALLY glad King K. Rool wasn't the final newcomer of Smash 4 because being announced at the grand finale wouldn't have been as exciting as his announcement for Ultimate).

I have to say, trying to think of both square and the many other owners of dragon quest characters, could it be possible that there will be two square characters? With that, I could see now a dragon quest character and geno. Geno would be the cash cow, and Dragon Quest would be the promotion/advertisement.
Let’s be honest. Square had the Upper hand since Sakurai wanted to have “everybody is in.”
Would Nintendo allow Square to have two representatives? Since they decided the DLC characters? They also knew that Geno Is a very popular request, but they also knew square ENEX had the upper hand when it came to cloud being part of the base game.
Since square likes money, you can make sense to have one character as the “Loss In profits but good advertising” and one be the cash cow.

Oh lord, could you imagine how pissed the Smash community would be if Square got two characters? They'd be so mad and say stuff like, "Why does Square get two newcomers?! So not fair!", "Square stole a spot for my character!", "Nintendo and Square, you greedy ****s!", etc. If anything, I find this fair because Square was nice enough to let us have one of their most prized possessions from 1997 for free. I do hope this is the case, but I'm not going to be happy about a DQ character. I won't be happy because they'd be there as a marketing tool to promote, they aren't there for fan service... I mean, sure, Geno's there, but ALL the DLC should be fan service because you're supposed to be pleasing your community, not piss it off. That's why Corrin was DLC, because of promotion. Nintendo should've learned their lesson from Corrin's inclusion.

 

[SmashKeks]

Power is literally just adding the attack and defense stats together, and I believe attack and defense stats probably follow an algorithm from a base value, so it'd be really difficult to do that.

To be fair though, they could just make a new script only for the Geno spirit that ignores algorithm and just has a flat stat value. it wouldn't be the first time a game makes an exception for one part of a mechanic in order to integrate a unique property or make a cute reference.

 

[HolyKnight]

Different group decided the spirits, not Sakurai.

Note the lack of Super Mario RPG music as well. There were able to use it in Smash 4, so why isn't it in this game?

Plus, you know who else are legendary spirits? Super Sonic, Kaptain K Rool, and Link (The Legend of Zelda).

You are panicking too quickly, my friend

there was mario rpg music in smash 4?

 

[Deleted member]

there was mario rpg music in smash 4?

Well, it wasn't added to the music tracks in the game, but it was played for the Geno Mii costume reveal

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

there was mario rpg music in smash 4?

In a way, yes. Beware the Forest's Mushrooms playing in the final Smash 4 presentation. I know this one's off-topic, but let's not forget about the small portion of "Fight Against Koopa" in the new King Bowser remix in Ultimate; I'll put both soundtracks so you can hear the music in comparison.

Spoiler: SMRPG portion in Ultimate:

 

[HolyKnight]

Ah ok, that makes more sense. I barely touched tr4sh, wasn't a fun game, so if it were in there, id have missed it.

 

[Xigger]

Some Spirits had more effort put into them than others, and frankly I think that is one of the things that puts Geno out of the race.

Different group decided the spirits, not Sakurai.

Just wanted to summarize that.

Also, I personally think it's a little ridiculous that we've gone through so many Square characters as competitors, so I put them in a list to put things into perspective:

• Chrono (Support died out)
• Sora (Fans realized he's Disney not Square, and rarely appears in crossovers)
• Sephiroth (Music copyright issues, design issues, no new FF content in Smash killed hopes)
• Slime (4-way copyright split, but Erdrick is still popular so IDK)
• Erdrick (Popular because it's the current leak?)

 

[SmashKeks]

• Chrono (Support died out)

Hey, I stil support Crono, and I'm not the only one. There are dozens of us! Dozens!

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Ah ok, that makes more sense. I barely touched tr4sh, wasn't a fun game, so if it were in there, id have missed it.

I agree, Smash 4 was setup in a weird way and felt so incomplete. I think a lot of people didn't like it because it was on the Wii U, Nintendo's least sold console.

Just wanted to summarize that.

Also, I personally think it's a little ridiculous that we've gone through so many Square characters as competitors, so I put them in a list to put things into perspective:

• Chrono (Support died out)
• Sora (Fans realized he's Disney not Square, and rarely appears in crossovers)
• Sephiroth (Music copyright issues, design issues, no new FF content in Smash killed hopes)
• Slime (4-way copyright split, but Erdrick is still popular so IDK)
• Erdrick (Popular because it's the current leak?)

Don't forget that Erdrick is also owned by like 4 companies too, so he's pretty much in the same licensing nightmare position as Slime.

Out of that list, the only two I still support are Crono and Sephiroth. Sora's fans lost a lot of hope after they thought he would be revealed at the game awards, but not many of them understood that Sora is a full-on Disney character, not a Square character; not to mention that he's a competitor, so I doubt Nintendo would want him. No one even knew who Erdrick was until his name popped up on a leak, and now they're hyping him up out of the blue.

I mean, we don't even know if the leak is real, right? Ovaltine , you know about the leak more than me, you said something about it being a false alarm. Could you clarify again please?

 

[childishgamgeno]

I encounter quite a few Geno icons online in smash. I wonder if Nintendo keeps up with those...

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I stil support Crono, and I'm not the only one. There are dozens of us! Dozens!

What the hell, I'll support Crono too. Having him and Geno is one of the best possible outcomes for the Smash Ultimate DLC

And Ninten too

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I encounter quite a few Geno icons online in smash. I wonder if Nintendo keeps up with those...

Hey, I also have the Geno icon! I find it very interesting that Mallow isn't a profile icon...

 

[Deleted member]

Good night everyone

 

[ForsakenM]

Oof, I can see that maybe my points were not taken quite as well as I would have liked, but I have been out here fighting for anything I can cling onto for Geno chances for months now so I understand how you feel. However, my points are are still rather valid in that these things I listed are solid reasons for Geno to be deconfirmed on the existence of his Spirit.

1. Geno is a Base Legendary. That alone is a sign of love to the Smash community and a possible sign of 'this is the best we could do, guys.'
2. I just found a video that shows off all the Spirits, starting with Main Spirits. Geno shows up at 3:27 but he doesn't move onto the Support Spirits until 14:32. Keep in mind this video has no talking and he scans through them very quickly. So yeah, sure there are a bunch of Spirits stronger than Geno, but the list of Spirits weaker than him is much longer than the list of those stronger, which is another point towards my argument.
3. He actually has a Spirit Battle in Adventure Mode, and it's not a forced option. In fact, it requires you to explore and have a Spirit that can travel through the Space section of WoL to even reach him. This can easily be proof towards my argument as this places him as an important and cool find in the Adventure Mode, much like a secret of sorts that you can't just reach by speed-running.
4. Not all Spirit Battles are equal, and I feel like Geno's is up there in terms of the amount of references stuffed into it. I don't feel like listing them all here and I bet I wouldn't even know all of them as I never got all the secrets in SMRPG, but my god there are a truckload. Once again, more proof towards my point.
5. MOST of the Spirits in Ultimate are there because they COULD NEVER be playable fighters, and thus Sakurai wanted us to have something towards that, even if it was something small. While this doesn't deconfirm EVERY character that shows up as a Spirit but not playable, it very much deconfirms most of them, and it's entirely possible that Geno is one of them when you add in my other points.

Now maybe his Spirit Battle isn't all that hard, but when you have to kill at least two characters to even get to the main one to kill while also still having two more to deal with? I imagine it's not the easiest, especially on harder difficulties.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now with my points hopefully made a bit clearer, I will address what you guys have brought up.

Different group working on Spirits =/= Character not deconfirmed by their existence as Spirits. This is a moot point. It's not like Sakurai would suddenly burst in and say 'Hey, don't make this one a Spirit because they are gonna be DLC' because it honestly wouldn't really matter all that much, especially if Spirits truly don't deconfirm and it's not like he had no idea about what they were doing. Thus, this point could work both for or against Geno and any other character that fans want playable but are in the game as a Spirit (like Rayman or Shantae). Also other interviews have proven that he did have involvement in some choices when it came to Spirits.

There is no SMRPG music in Smash and never has been. We got Beware the Forest's Mushrooms during the Geno Mii Costume trailer, and that was it, so it really means nothing at all. Also the 'Fight Against Koopa' bit isn't truly SMRPG music as it is a remix of the original Bowser theme from SMB3, just like it is a remix in SMRPG. To clarify, the remix in Smash is a remix of SMB3 and the theme in SMRPG is Yoko's take on the theme from SMB3 as well.

All the Spirits mentioned thus far are different incarnations of a playable character, but Geno isn't a different incarnation of the one we know. Honestly, how well would it go over if we got Geno but he possessed a Gundam or a GI Joe doll or something of that nature and played nothing like SMRPG? It would defeat the purpose entirely, so having different variations of a playable character means nothing if you are trying to spin it in Geno's favor.

Now I wish to all heck I could find this article link but I've already spent too much Christmas Eve morning time on this, but I swear I saw/heard it from a Billybae10K vid. There was an article in which Sakurai stated that Spirits were created so that it felt like you were fighting against/with your favorite characters. Now of course this doesn't really confirm anything, as 'with' could easily mean alongside, but this feels damning to me personally because why would you need to feel like you were fighting against or alongside your favorite characters to make it feel as real as possible if they would just be playable via DLC down the line? This also echoes the Nov 1st Direct in which he mentioned that this could be someone's 'dream team', which is more points towards the 'Spirits deconfirm characters' argument.

So, got a question for you all: has anyone found anything Persona in base Smash Ultimate? I feel like we would have heard about it by now, right? Pretty sure Tsubasa Oribe doesn't count as Persona as well...so, there isn't a Piranha Plant Spirit and no Persona Spirits, and they are both DLC characters...hmm...perhaps more points towards 'Spirits deconfirm' arguments? Also, I understand we will get Fighter Spirits of them most likely when they drop, but not having any characters of them as Spirits at all in base seems to point at something.

Lastly...guys, we've been here before. We've been down this road twice now over so many years. In Brawl, Sakurai tried to get Geno in, and it didn't happen. In Smash 4, Sakurai tried to work both Geno and Cloud, but he couldn't so we got Geno as a Mii Costume just so we could get something. History tends to repeat itself more often than not, and combined with NoJ being a major factor in character choices as well as Square being like they are when it comes to their IPs and characters and it's likely we won't even get another Square rep for DLC at all.

Remember guys, NO ONE KNOWS THE DLC LINE-UP AT ALL! Not PolarPanda, not LeakyPandy, not Vergeben, not Hitagi, not Xenother, not me, not you. It will remain under lock and key likely until their reveals drop, and all this hearsay about Square characters kinda proves the point that no one has any idea.

 

[Deleted member]

Oof, I can see that maybe my points were not taken quite as well as I would have liked, but I have been out here fighting for anything I can cling onto for Geno chances for months now so I understand how you feel. However, my points are are still rather valid in that these things I listed are solid reasons for Geno to be deconfirmed on the existence of his Spirit.

1. Geno is a Base Legendary. That alone is a sign of love to the Smash community and a possible sign of 'this is the best we could do, guys.'
2. I just found a video that shows off all the Spirits, starting with Main Spirits. Geno shows up at 3:27 but he doesn't move onto the Support Spirits until 14:32. Keep in mind this video has no talking and he scans through them very quickly. So yeah, sure there are a bunch of Spirits stronger than Geno, but the list of Spirits weaker than him is much longer than the list of those stronger, which is another point towards my argument.
3. He actually has a Spirit Battle in Adventure Mode, and it's not a forced option. In fact, it requires you to explore and have a Spirit that can travel through the Space section of WoL to even reach him. This can easily be proof towards my argument as this places him as an important and cool find in the Adventure Mode, much like a secret of sorts that you can't just reach by speed-running.
4. Not all Spirit Battles are equal, and I feel like Geno's is up there in terms of the amount of references stuffed into it. I don't feel like listing them all here and I bet I wouldn't even know all of them as I never got all the secrets in SMRPG, but my god there are a truckload. Once again, more proof towards my point.
5. MOST of the Spirits in Ultimate are there because they COULD NEVER be playable fighters, and thus Sakurai wanted us to have something towards that, even if it was something small. While this doesn't deconfirm EVERY character that shows up as a Spirit but not playable, it very much deconfirms most of them, and it's entirely possible that Geno is one of them when you add in my other points.

Now maybe his Spirit Battle isn't all that hard, but when you have to kill at least two characters to even get to the main one to kill while also still having two more to deal with? I imagine it's not the easiest, especially on harder difficulties.
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Now with my points hopefully made a bit clearer, I will address what you guys have brought up.

Different group working on Spirits =/= Character not deconfirmed by their existence as Spirits. This is a moot point. It's not like Sakurai would suddenly burst in and say 'Hey, don't make this one a Spirit because they are gonna be DLC' because it honestly wouldn't really matter all that much, especially if Spirits truly don't deconfirm and it's not like he had no idea about what they were doing. Thus, this point could work both for or against Geno and any other character that fans want playable but are in the game as a Spirit (like Rayman or Shantae). Also other interviews have proven that he did have involvement in some choices when it came to Spirits.

There is no SMRPG music in Smash and never has been. We got Beware the Forest's Mushrooms during the Geno Mii Costume trailer, and that was it, so it really means nothing at all. Also the 'Fight Against Koopa' bit isn't truly SMRPG music as it is a remix of the original Bowser theme from SMB3, just like it is a remix in SMRPG. To clarify, the remix in Smash is a remix of SMB3 and the theme in SMRPG is Yoko's take on the theme from SMB3 as well.

All the Spirits mentioned thus far are different incarnations of a playable character, but Geno isn't a different incarnation of the one we know. Honestly, how well would it go over if we got Geno but he possessed a Gundam or a GI Joe doll or something of that nature and played nothing like SMRPG? It would defeat the purpose entirely, so having different variations of a playable character means nothing if you are trying to spin it in Geno's favor.

Now I wish to all heck I could find this article link but I've already spent too much Christmas Eve morning time on this, but I swear I saw/heard it from a Billybae10K vid. There was an article in which Sakurai stated that Spirits were created so that it felt like you were fighting against/with your favorite characters. Now of course this doesn't really confirm anything, as 'with' could easily mean alongside, but this feels damning to me personally because why would you need to feel like you were fighting against or alongside your favorite characters to make it feel as real as possible if they would just be playable via DLC down the line? This also echoes the Nov 1st Direct in which he mentioned that this could be someone's 'dream team', which is more points towards the 'Spirits deconfirm characters' argument.

So, got a question for you all: has anyone found anything Persona in base Smash Ultimate? I feel like we would have heard about it by now, right? Pretty sure Tsubasa Oribe doesn't count as Persona as well...so, there isn't a Piranha Plant Spirit and no Persona Spirits, and they are both DLC characters...hmm...perhaps more points towards 'Spirits deconfirm' arguments? Also, I understand we will get Fighter Spirits of them most likely when they drop, but not having any characters of them as Spirits at all in base seems to point at something.

Lastly...guys, we've been here before. We've been down this road twice now over so many years. In Brawl, Sakurai tried to get Geno in, and it didn't happen. In Smash 4, Sakurai tried to work both Geno and Cloud, but he couldn't so we got Geno as a Mii Costume just so we could get something. History tends to repeat itself more often than not, and combined with NoJ being a major factor in character choices as well as Square being like they are when it comes to their IPs and characters and it's likely we won't even get another Square rep for DLC at all.

Remember guys, NO ONE KNOWS THE DLC LINE-UP AT ALL! Not PolarPanda, not LeakyPanda, not Vergeben, not Hitagi, not Xenother, not me, not you. It will remain under lock and key likely until their reveals drop, and all this hearsay about Square characters kinda proves the point that no one has any idea.

If the spirit was a consultation prize like you are making it out to be, there would be as much content as there can be. When they use a music track, they have the rights to use it, so there is nothing stopping them from using it again. Sakurai and Nintendo are aware of how popular Geno is.

Different team deciding the spirits means that Sakurai didn't have plans of making a certain character a spirit. Sure, it may have been approved by Sakurai, but if he wants to make a character who is a spirit a fighter, he will.

It's important to note that PP is a bonus and him and Joker were revealed before we were supposed to know all the spirits. We only found out about the Geno spirit when the datamine happened.

If certain characters aren't spirits, this, again, was the choice of the team who decided the spirits. Sakurai doesn't tell the team who shouldn't be a spirit.

And, please, we don't need a constant reminder of not getting our hopes up. We don't do so often, and we have the right to.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Oof, I can see that maybe my points were not taken quite as well as I would have liked, but I have been out here fighting for anything I can cling onto for Geno chances for months now so I understand how you feel. However, my points are are still rather valid in that these things I listed are solid reasons for Geno to be deconfirmed on the existence of his Spirit.

1. Geno is a Base Legendary. That alone is a sign of love to the Smash community and a possible sign of 'this is the best we could do, guys.'
2. I just found a video that shows off all the Spirits, starting with Main Spirits. Geno shows up at 3:27 but he doesn't move onto the Support Spirits until 14:32. Keep in mind this video has no talking and he scans through them very quickly. So yeah, sure there are a bunch of Spirits stronger than Geno, but the list of Spirits weaker than him is much longer than the list of those stronger, which is another point towards my argument.
3. He actually has a Spirit Battle in Adventure Mode, and it's not a forced option. In fact, it requires you to explore and have a Spirit that can travel through the Space section of WoL to even reach him. This can easily be proof towards my argument as this places him as an important and cool find in the Adventure Mode, much like a secret of sorts that you can't just reach by speed-running.
4. Not all Spirit Battles are equal, and I feel like Geno's is up there in terms of the amount of references stuffed into it. I don't feel like listing them all here and I bet I wouldn't even know all of them as I never got all the secrets in SMRPG, but my god there are a truckload. Once again, more proof towards my point.
5. MOST of the Spirits in Ultimate are there because they COULD NEVER be playable fighters, and thus Sakurai wanted us to have something towards that, even if it was something small. While this doesn't deconfirm EVERY character that shows up as a Spirit but not playable, it very much deconfirms most of them, and it's entirely possible that Geno is one of them when you add in my other points.

Now maybe his Spirit Battle isn't all that hard, but when you have to kill at least two characters to even get to the main one to kill while also still having two more to deal with? I imagine it's not the easiest, especially on harder difficulties.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now with my points hopefully made a bit clearer, I will address what you guys have brought up.

Different group working on Spirits =/= Character not deconfirmed by their existence as Spirits. This is a moot point. It's not like Sakurai would suddenly burst in and say 'Hey, don't make this one a Spirit because they are gonna be DLC' because it honestly wouldn't really matter all that much, especially if Spirits truly don't deconfirm and it's not like he had no idea about what they were doing. Thus, this point could work both for or against Geno and any other character that fans want playable but are in the game as a Spirit (like Rayman or Shantae). Also other interviews have proven that he did have involvement in some choices when it came to Spirits.

There is no SMRPG music in Smash and never has been. We got Beware the Forest's Mushrooms during the Geno Mii Costume trailer, and that was it, so it really means nothing at all. Also the 'Fight Against Koopa' bit isn't truly SMRPG music as it is a remix of the original Bowser theme from SMB3, just like it is a remix in SMRPG. To clarify, the remix in Smash is a remix of SMB3 and the theme in SMRPG is Yoko's take on the theme from SMB3 as well.

All the Spirits mentioned thus far are different incarnations of a playable character, but Geno isn't a different incarnation of the one we know. Honestly, how well would it go over if we got Geno but he possessed a Gundam or a GI Joe doll or something of that nature and played nothing like SMRPG? It would defeat the purpose entirely, so having different variations of a playable character means nothing if you are trying to spin it in Geno's favor.

Now I wish to all heck I could find this article link but I've already spent too much Christmas Eve morning time on this, but I swear I saw/heard it from a Billybae10K vid. There was an article in which Sakurai stated that Spirits were created so that it felt like you were fighting against/with your favorite characters. Now of course this doesn't really confirm anything, as 'with' could easily mean alongside, but this feels damning to me personally because why would you need to feel like you were fighting against or alongside your favorite characters to make it feel as real as possible if they would just be playable via DLC down the line? This also echoes the Nov 1st Direct in which he mentioned that this could be someone's 'dream team', which is more points towards the 'Spirits deconfirm characters' argument.

So, got a question for you all: has anyone found anything Persona in base Smash Ultimate? I feel like we would have heard about it by now, right? Pretty sure Tsubasa Oribe doesn't count as Persona as well...so, there isn't a Piranha Plant Spirit and no Persona Spirits, and they are both DLC characters...hmm...perhaps more points towards 'Spirits deconfirm' arguments? Also, I understand we will get Fighter Spirits of them most likely when they drop, but not having any characters of them as Spirits at all in base seems to point at something.

Lastly...guys, we've been here before. We've been down this road twice now over so many years. In Brawl, Sakurai tried to get Geno in, and it didn't happen. In Smash 4, Sakurai tried to work both Geno and Cloud, but he couldn't so we got Geno as a Mii Costume just so we could get something. History tends to repeat itself more often than not, and combined with NoJ being a major factor in character choices as well as Square being like they are when it comes to their IPs and characters and it's likely we won't even get another Square rep for DLC at all.

Remember guys, NO ONE KNOWS THE DLC LINE-UP AT ALL! Not PolarPanda, not LeakyPanda, not Vergeben, not Hitagi, not Xenother, not me, not you. It will remain under lock and key likely until their reveals drop, and all this hearsay about Square characters kinda proves the point that no one has any idea.

Honestly these are all excellent points.

However, characters like Bomberman and Shantae also show up in Spirits Mode and have respective Spirit Battles. Bomberman is still represented in game as an assist trophy. Also, Claus is a base Legendary Spirit (haven’t encountered him yet in WoL tbh) and he has an alt skin through Lucas. Ness’ Dad, Akuma, and Hinawa are also base legendary spirits. As is Wario-Man (who is in game as Wario’s special)

My point is that, there are also factors that make the “Spirits deconfirm” argument kind of an assumption at this point. Correct, no spirit has EXPLICITLY made it has a fighter, but at the same time, the fighters all have “different forms” that appear as spirits. And your point about Geno not being an incarnation is mostly because there is currently only ONE incarnation of the character. It would literally be impossible to try to say “Geno (Original)” like they did with Pit without hinting at something. Or people taking it as hinting at something. And additionally I actually find it incredibly strange they used Shiek and not the Mii Costume or Mega Man as the reference to Geno. Shiek has pellets that are more bullet like, but she comes at you off the bat with a ray gun. Which is...kind of inaccurate? Lmao

Most of the Spirit battles have the same amount of carefully crafted references in them. Geno’s is pretty detailed in that you have to fight the whole party as opposed to just Geno, but that could also be argued as a creative choice. But every spirit match I’ve fought has been incredilbly detailed actually in terms of references. Buzz Buzz dying in one hit. Snake being invisible in Ness Dad fight, etc.

Also let’s not forget the lack of FF Spirits. Of course we have two for Cloud as fighter spirits, but none really outside of that. So FF is IN smash and barely has spirits, why would there be Persona spirits? Geno is at least part of the Mario franchise so that makes sense. Why put Persona spirits in, unless you’re hinting at a Persona character? Especially if it’s 3rd party?

I think your point about Spirits being there cuz some characters could never be playable is more of an assumption. Ridley was purported to NEVER be playable and yet, here we are.


I don’t think Sakurai would go “Wait no don’t put Geno in because we’re gonna make him DLC”

But I also don’t think he would go “Welp we can’t put Geno in because he’s already a Spirit in the game”

DLC is another beast. Do I think Geno is likely? Eh, I’m kind of wavering, but I think it’s from outside forces besides his spirit being in game.

Saki Amamiya has a Spirit, AND he’s a Mii Costume. He’s “technically” playable

 

[FalconFire93]

Hope all of you Genobros have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!

 

[Potatu]

Hope all of you Genobros have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!

Likewise, have a good one everybody!

 

[Loliko YnT]

I do agree that spirits could deconfirm characters , but I feel the most likely one to be deconfirmed are third party. You need to negotiate TWICE for the character.

Of course , if Nintendo asked for Shantae , you bet Wayforward would say Yes.
But bigger companies , like Capcom , SE ... Their characters rights must cost a lot of money.

And tbh... With Corrin in Sm4sh DLC , as the only new Nintendo character(not counting returning veterans)... I got the Bad feeling that they wouldn't even bother to pick characters like Dixie Kong or Bandana Waddle Dee , wich is a shame.

...

I don't want to live in a World were my last possible wanted characters are Klonoa and Zizou Olympia... I Hope Nintendo do a miracle and pick the bear'n'bird at least , if we can't get Geno...

 

[Ovaltine]

I mean, we don't even know if the leak is real, right? Ovaltine Ovaltine , you know about the leak more than me, you said something about it being a false alarm. Could you clarify again please?

Well, I'm not in any way an insider, so it's all speculation from me as it is from you. With that being said, my argument is this (to be taken with a grain of salt, not as gospel, especially since I still think Erdrick is very likely):

Erdrick was a name whispered for some time, mainly by LeakyPandy and Hitagi, but nothing further than that. There was less certainty with his name and whether or not he'd be in Smash until the Squeenix list got leaked. Coincidentally, sometime after the leak, Erdrick started being way more hammered into the consciences of insiders, suddenly going from 'possible' status to 'very likely' status. However, according to Fatman, there's been some internal disputing over it, but in what way, I'm not privy to.

The conclusion in my mind is that maybe, just maybe, Square was made aware of those names going public and started doing damage control by planting Erdrick into employees' minds that much harder. The way Square is so hard on leaks and known for spreading leakbait makes me wonder if Erdrick is actually just leakbait, spread thicker due to the fact that leaks got out that they didn't like. Along with that, Tansut himself is aware of some kind of leak having ruffled Square's feathers, and in his Resetera post, he speculated (pure, pure speculation, though) that it might be Geno. Speculation is one thing, but when it comes from someone we know has direct ties to Square and knows to some extent how they operate, it's... very fascinating information.

That being said, for all we know, Erdrick is the fighter this time around and his name just happened to get zeroed in on, despite Square's efforts, but we just don't know at this point. He could be the real deal, or he could be covering up for another character that the community has been waffling on. He may be real, or he may be detracting from the real fighter so that they are less expected by the public. Given the reaction, if and only if this is the case, it's certainly working.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Joker opened the door to a lot of previously viewed unlikely 3rd party characters, and Capcom is very generous with its content. Joker increases Phoenix's chances imo

Dang straight he does!

 

[beans]

NoJ/Sakurai: This character will be a fighter now.
a png file: no
NoJ/Sakurai: Guess thats the end of the story.

Spirits dont disconfirm because they're heavily managed by a team with liberties on the selection.
Since Sakurai isnt designing every single one of the spirit battles, they arent pieces of a big game of disconfirmation, lies and assist trophies.

 

[The Anigriffin]

NoJ/Sakurai: This character will be a fighter now.
a png file: no
NoJ/Sakurai: Guess thats the end of the story.

Spirits dont disconfirm because they're heavily managed by a team with liberties on the selection.
Since Sakurai isnt designing every single one of the spirit battles, they arent pieces of a big game of disconfirmation, lies and assist trophies.

Honestly the "they put so much effort into them" argument could be used for Mewtwo and Lucas's trophies in Smash 4 as well. It didn't work back then so there's no reason for it to work now.

 

[Looma]

Dragon Quest is starting to sound like the sun in an Icarus analogy. I can't goddamn believe that the deal is somehow even worse than previously thought to the point that it could effectively kill competitive. Sword Goku Man sounded like some jungle japes already, but this is basically a deconfirmation in my eyes. Ninty makes some weird, backwards decisions but they're not stupid. At this point, I'm gonna need to see RPG Hero Man to believe RPG Hero Man.

Sounds like Square Enix has pulled a successful bamboozle, as they do apparently.