Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Firox]

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS I WAS THE 37,000th post!!!!!!

Dang it! Missed it by one.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Welp, I decided to leave Polar's Discord server, probably for the best since the discussions over there are so damn infuriating.

That place is **** just like every other Discord group centering around leaks that I've been invited to. Starts out as something they're claiming to be tight knit and small but ends up as a mess of hundreds of people flinging feces at the wall.

When it started, the "announcements" channel was to be used specifically for leaks/rumors that she had heard about. 99% of the announcements for the past month have been about scheduling game nights and discussing avengers endgame.

It's a lame/cancerous social group for people with nothing but time to waste

 

[pupNapoleon]

Damn...I know this is the geno boards and all but damn how has etika went so far off the deep end. Did the YouTube fame cause him to snap? I know he got shutdown by posting porn on his channel at one point, but now after what i read above it seems he’s completely snapped...

The dude was never unsnapped.
He rose to internet fame by intentionally playing a hyper and overreactive character with big hair.

That place is **** just like every other Discord group centering around leaks that I've been invited to. Starts out as something they're claiming to be tight knit and small but ends up as a mess of hundreds of people flinging feces at the wall.

When it started, the "announcements" channel was to be used specifically for leaks/rumors that she had heard about. 99% of the announcements for the past month have been about scheduling game nights and discussing avengers endgame.

It's a lame/cancerous social group for people with nothing but time to waste

I have been more active on discord- do you know good leak groups?

 

[xpnc]

I think everyone is slowly coming to the realisation that leak groups or people who claim to have insider information were either incredibly lucky, or had a very small amount of insight that they've been trying to milk for months. Chances are that you're not going to find the nitty gritty details on the Smash DLC roster on a Discord server. Failing some big NDA break, we really cannot know until the day they're announced.

 

[Gallowglass]

Keep in mind that all of the third party Mii costumes were removed in Ultimate, only for the Tails and Knuckles Mii costumes to be added back in through DLC.

That is true. Its not a 100% guarantee but it Geno does probably the strongest following among the remaining unrevealed Mii-Costumes. Also I think if Geno became DLC he would sell like hotcakes.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Why would deleting a character you don't like be toxic? It's okay to not like a character and there's nothing problematic with your reasoning either. What matters is what you want. You're not obligated to keep DLC characters to please other people.

Oh I ain't never. Even the worst I'd feel about Geno's chances is me thinking he's unlikely, not outright giving up. And, personally, I don't really think he's unlikely, I'm confident for his chances. Though, if he isn't in wave 1 (or separate DLC along with wave 1), I'll think he's unlikely, but I won't give up!



If this is considered toxic, then disliking anything in general is considered toxic. Toxic is like "oh lmao this is such a ****ing stupid piece of **** and anyone who likes it is is such a ****ing dumb***."

So, no, I don't think this is toxic.

I don't know that it's super toxic, but more problematic in a few places. It's fine to have your opinions on things, but when you're being bothered by what characters other people play, then yeah that's a little bit of an issue. Wanting to delete him out of spite also seems to be taking things a bit far given that you've already paid for him and he's not really taking up valuable space on your Switch.

It's also just way too early to be saying much on his place in the meta when Ultimate's meta is just now sort of developing. Joker is relatively weak without Arsene, which means that it's hard to fault him too much. His only recovery option is the tether that can be gimped without too much effort and he's just not got a lot of kill power outside of f-smash and up-air. The angle of side-B requires more finesse than most projectiles in the game. His guns don't stun on hit and are pretty weak. There's not a whole lot of base Joker that's super great even if he is plenty decent. He's intentionally designed that way for Arsene. And really, you're playing against Arsene Joker throughout the match. Which means that you need to be making sure he doesn't gain charge from you when you hit his Down-B and trying to prevent him from coming out for as long as possible. He's a little different to play against than most characters in that regard, and then once he gets Arsene it comes down to shifting strategy again. He loses Arsene more quickly as he takes hits, so you're looking to reduce that time frame for as long as possible as consistently as possible. Or just avoiding him, though that's less advantageous since he still has Arsene out for the maximum time in that scenario.

Arsene doesn't completely feel like a comeback mechanic either in the sense that he does charge relatively slowly from non-Down B related sources. And the real big issue Joker faces as a character is that if you don't manage to achieve anything with Arsene, you're in a real rough position. There's a time limit to how much damage you can cause in your buffed form and again, base Joker isn't necessarily all that great even if he can still get in some shots. Lucario has no such issue and could theoretically be in his buffed form through an entire match if the player is good enough at surviving.

You're still free not to like Joker of course, but I do think he's going to suffer the more people get used to playing against him and figuring out counter strategies. He won't be the worst tier or a really bad character at any point, he's got enough in base form to avoid that as far as we know, but his future is still relatively unknown.

Alright ,first of all , thank you everyone for taking the time to respond to me. This was very kind from both of you. (All three of you , why did I forget you Zack)

And to some degree , I agree with you Eric.

Joker has some pretty noticible weaknesses that can be countered. Heck , even when I play K. Rool and Junior/Koopalings , I feel like I have more than a chance.

When Joker get Arsene , I'm aware that a hit and run strategy is the way to go.
Risking losing an interaction against such a monster ain't worth it. That's why I often ban stuff like Battlefield and Lylat , those stages are too small.
I usually do my best to avoid him , and only punish him softly when I can to lower his rebellion gauge. I don't outright camp him , his reflector stay active for too long for me to do something like :
-Blunderbuss ---> Joker reflect ---> reflect back with Gut check.
It seem like his reflect will still be active and lol , that's more than 50% to my face.
But I also keep this info in mind , so I can potentially bait this counter and have a free grab.
Even with Arsene , he's not unstoppable.

However , I disagree with his grappling hook beeing easy to gimp.
The radius where his grappling hook will tether grab is quite bigger than I expected. There were a few times where he was off the camera , below the ledge , and managed to tether grab.
If you're taking about gimping him during his tether animation , it's extremely quick , and you need to read his angle.

It is still an exploitable recovery , but it's better than what most people expected.

Second , getting Arsene once per stock is very likely. 70% in this game isn't death percent , except for some heavies and very hard punishes.
He can even get Arsene sooner ,since rebellion gauge charge over time and when he hit his opponent.
So maybe I missunderstood , but it's almost a guarantee for Joker to get Arsene once per stock , except if you're lucky to kill him early or know really well the joker's habits.

While his damage output his poor , his combo game and frame date just compensate enough. Meanwhile , Sheik doing a F-air train will do 25%.
Joker ? Most of his strings do 30-40%. Considering he can use side-b to increase even more the damages during a string or combo , it make his poor damage output tolerable.

I kind of agree about Joker lack of killing power. His throw don't kill past 180-200% , his tilts don't kill , neither do it's specials except grappling hook in extremely rare cases. His smashes are also pretty committal.
However , B-air is a very fast killing aerial , and he's an amazing edgeguarder. He has 2 way to keep a long lasting hitbox off-stage (N-air + grounded gun to jump gun) , his F-air send in a very horizontal angle , and B-air is a very fast and lagless killing aerial.

All he has to do is condition shield , throw off-stage and gimp. Of course , there are ton of others factors , but he don't need to kill on stage , he can do it off-stage.

That's why I feel like he's better than decent without Arsene.

And that's why I feel like Rebellion gauge should fill up faster when he hit his opponent , instead of when he's getting hit.
Joker should get rewarded for keeping the advantage, outplaying his opponent , learning the opponents habits , keeping the momentum.
It truly feel like a "Get out of jail card" when he get Arsene after getting destroyed in disadvantage. (Or when he get Arsene off-stage when he couldn't recover with grappling hook)

Because then you either :
-Risk it for the biscuit and force the advantage/try an early kill , in the cost of getting caught in a very dangerous combo or string
-Drop the advantage and play hit and run. Considering you have to be very aware of the range of his burst options and it's side-b , so stage control can get very tense.

And , I can adapt to this , I did... But this is just a frustrating way to handle a gimmick. Not considering rage can stack over Arsene.

Lucario will punish you for building % for too long instead of finding an opening to kill.
Once he get aura , there's no timer , you just have to deal with it.
You don't have to change your playstyle to a overall boring one for 30 seconds. You have to find a way to kill Lucario.

That's why I have no issues with Lucario , his design is clear.
Rebellion gauge filling up this fast when you hit Joker just... Feel like a strenght he shouldn't have , when he already have a lot of them like :
-Speed
-Mobility
-Amazing frame data (Wich is huge in Smash with the right strenghts)
-Arsene Wich give him a better recovery , damage output and killing power.

That's litteraly the only change I want from him. I just find him really boring to fight , and that's my personnal point of view.

Also , maybe I didn't worded myself correctly.
I'm completely fine with people playing anime swordies , Sheik , Bayo , and so on.
If they like their character , for Nayru's love , let em' play em' !

However , deleting Joker from my save data won't delete Joker from their save data.
I only have one friend IRL. She don't care about Joker , and she's a casual. At best , she could be considered a Corrin main.

So , she would still have more than 70 characters to play , more than 100 stage , 900~ music tracks , and so on.
When you think about it , a single fighter pack is really small compared to Smash Ultimate content.

And most importantly , she don't have any attachment to Joker or Persona.

And , this is personnal but ... This is not toward you , but when someone tell me "That's not nice to not let other people play this character because you don't like him/her!"...
Dude/ette. Look at how much content there is in Ultimate. Second... I'm letting you play for free a game that costed me 60 dollars , + the system (300 dollars) controllers and shtick. I'm taking a risk by letting you play (breaking somethin' by accident) , I do it because I want to spend a good time with someone.
This kind of comment sound really childish to me.
I could litteraly say you "no" when asking to play , but I accept , and that's what they say ? I mean , I'm not superior because I have a switch and they don't but... If someone let me borrow one of their books for free , based on trust , I'm not gonna say "damn , this isn't the best edition of this book !". It's just rude.

And once again , this is not toward you , or anyone here for that matter , but this is a comment that I hate , and that I saw several times.

Finally , I thank you again for your response Eric.
Your point of view always bring a lot to the table , and your post are always well constructed.

 

[Pokemaster73]

That is true. Its not a 100% guarantee but it Geno does probably the strongest following among the remaining unrevealed Mii-Costumes. Also I think if Geno became DLC he would sell like hotcakes.

Praying for that Banjo + Geno reveal at E3. It's a pipedream, but oh man would that be hype.

 

[Loliko YnT]

By the way , I just fully finished all of Bowser Jr. Journey quests !
I need to finish some achievements tho.

But... Look at these bouncy and happy boys.
Bowser Jr. may be a bit of a brat , but this little side game made him even more lovable for me.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Keep in mind that all of the third party Mii costumes were removed in Ultimate, only for the Tails and Knuckles Mii costumes to be added back in through DLC.

Likewise, all 3rd party Mii costumes were DLC last time too.

It's the only consistent thing among costumes this time. A lot of fan rules have been fairly inconsistent or don't add up. The idea Sakurai won't add a Western character has a pretty big issue when he went to Ubisoft for specific Rayman(and Rabbids among this game) content. Which is a Western company. The reality is, he is willing to go to Western companies for content. So the language barrier is way exaggerated too, and while I won't say a Western playable character is some guarantee, there's barely anything going against it beyond patterns. Now some characters might have bad chances due to other factors, of course. Just those haven't been spoken of, as nearly all of the reasoning has been xenophobia.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Likewise, all 3rd party Mii costumes were DLC last time too.

It's the only consistent thing among costumes this time. A lot of fan rules have been fairly inconsistent or don't add up. The idea Sakurai won't add a Western character has a pretty big issue when he went to Ubisoft for specific Rayman(and Rabbids among this game) content. Which is a Western company. The reality is, he is willing to go to Western companies for content. So the language barrier is way exaggerated too, and while I won't say a Western playable character is some guarantee, there's barely anything going against it beyond patterns. Now some characters might have bad chances due to other factors, of course. Just those haven't been spoken of, as nearly all of the reasoning has been xenophobia.

Do we have proof that Sakurai went to Ubisoft rather than the other way around? 'Cause that's what happened with Rayman's trophy in 4.

Not that a PNG is significant content anyways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do we have proof that Sakurai went to Ubisoft rather than the other way around? 'Cause that's what happened with Rayman's trophy in 4.

Not that a PNG is significant content anyways.

Actually, I legitimately forgot the order of things in that regard.

Though my bigger point is he's more than willing to communicate with Western developers without issues. I did misremember that bit, though. My bad.

 

[domriver]

All they need to do is post a picture of a smash invitation. We will get the idea.

LOL- hype building.........disappointing inevitable..... heres hoping that Nintendo tweets out something on that precious day!

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I still don't know why Nintendo/SE hates money. If they were to make a fully HD SMRPG remake or sequel, I would bet my immortal soul that it would sell like hot cakes. They could even do what they're doing with the FF7 remake and have the combat updated to be more live-action based a la Kingdom Hearts. My favorite RPG combat system of all time was the one used in Tales of Vesperia where once you entered a random battle, you and up to three other friends/CPUs could control one of the four party members and battle it out in real time. Could you imagine bisecting peeps with Geno whirl on the fly?! Freaking Destructo Disc, baby! They could even add some sick combos where Geno pops a blade out of his wrist, slashing up an enemy before finishing them off with an elbow cannon or something......I mean, for frick's sake, it only took me a few seconds to spit-ball an idea that I myself would be willing to pay bank for. Why are none of the devs coming up with this stuff?!

Actually, Nintendo and Square don't hate money, they just don't seem to negotiate very well. I'm fine with SMRPG having the gameplay be like the FF7 remake or Kingdom Hearts, but I'm also fine if a SMRPG remake gets the FF gameplay as well, where you have to wait under a time limit in order to have your turn.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I guess we can see how good SE's and Nintendo's relationship is if they get a DLC character. If the character included absolutely nothing again like Cloud I don't think it's the best relationship.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I guess we can see how good SE's and Nintendo's relationship is if they get a DLC character. If the character included absolutely nothing again like Cloud I don't think it's the best relationship.

You better watch where you snap those fingers...

 

[MissingGlitch]

You better watch where you snap those fingers...

Don't worry. I already threatened to snap away half the smash roster if Banjo isn't announced at E3.

And sorry everyone I decided to sacrifice Geno's chances for the soul stone. A soul for a soul.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I guess we can see how good SE's and Nintendo's relationship is if they get a DLC character. If the character included absolutely nothing again like Cloud I don't think it's the best relationship.

As always, killer new pfp.

 

[MissingGlitch]

As always, killer new pfp.

Dread it, run from it, my avatar being killer arrives all the same.

 

[Deleted member]

Nine and a half hours left.

Hoo boy I'm excited.

 

[Deleted member]

Nine and a half hours left.

Hoo boy I'm excited.

Until what?

 

[Deleted member]

Until what?

Oh, until I see Endgame lol

 

[xpnc]

Important update for the Geno thread thanks

 

[Deleted member]

Important update for the Geno thread thanks

I mean, one of the reasons I'm saying it here specifically is because it's one of my favorite threads.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, until I see Endgame lol

Oh I saw it a few days ago trust me it is incredible, It was so beautiful that the night after I saw it I woke up twice, Thought about scenes in the movie and fell right back asleep. I don't know why or when that happened but it did. I really do think you'll enjoy it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Nine and a half hours left.

Hoo boy I'm excited.

You're in the endgame now.

 

[Shado-will]

So, I don't know if anyone's mentioned this here, but this is a thing. Don't know what this means (or doesn't mean) for Geno's chances, or any SE rep for that matter, but they've supposedly been working on Joker as long as DLC fighters #2 and #3 (not counting the plant).

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I mean, one of the reasons I'm saying it here specifically is because it's one of my favorite threads.

I think the main point was the vague wording was misleading and made it seem like some announcement was coming.

I don't think anyone here is going to assume to know you're talking about Avengers in the Geno thread

 

[Deleted member]

I think the main point was the vague wording was misleading and made it seem like some announcement was coming.

I don't think anyone here is going to assume to know you're talking about Avengers in the Geno thread

Well, it is one of the biggest movies ever that's still being watched, so I think people would get the idea. Plus, I think it would be kinda weird if I knew about any announcements before everyone else lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, it is one of the biggest movies ever that's still being watched, so I think people would get the idea.

>When you can't watch Endgame due to health and work stuff until July or the Blu-ray's release.

 

[EarlTamm]

>When you can't watch Endgame due to health and work stuff until July or the Blu-ray's release.

You poor soul.

 

[Deleted member]

You poor soul.

Work is really important for me on both May and June.

I just want to finish all of this so I can take the summer free and finally go to an university after this one ends.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Well, it is one of the biggest movies ever that's still being watched, so I think people would get the idea. Plus, I think it would be kinda weird if I knew about any announcements before everyone else lol.

I'm literally telling you that several people didn't get the idea or know what you were talking about because you gave zero context

 

[Deleted member]

I'm literally telling you that several people didn't get the idea or know what you were talking about because you gave zero context

And someone did because it was already obvious enough as is, especially after I'd said previously in the thread that I'd be seeing it Friday (so, well, today).

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

And someone did because it was already obvious enough as is, especially after I'd said previously in the thread that I'd be seeing it Friday (so, well, today).

Believe it or not some people that monitor this thread skip posts that discuss the personal lives of other users here.

 

[Firox]

Oh, until I see Endgame lol

"You just don't get why we need Geno. I mean, that? (Points at E3) That's the endgame. How do you plan to fight that?"

"Together."

"We'll lose."

"Then we'll do that together too."

 

[Deleted member]

Believe it or not some people that monitor this thread skip posts that discuss the personal lives of other users here.

Endgame has been discussed a lot on Smashboards already. I don't see why there's a huge problem with me saying when I'm going to see it.

 

[Ovaltine]

Endgame has been discussed a lot on Smashboards already. I don't see why there's a huge problem with me saying when I'm going to see it.

Eh, I see what KC's talking about. I saw the post this morning on my phone, and my heart jumped... only to learn it was about Avengers. Just provide a little context next time, aye?

 

[MattX20]

So, I don't know if anyone's mentioned this here, but this is a thing. Don't know what this means (or doesn't mean) for Geno's chances, or any SE rep for that matter, but they've supposedly been working on Joker as long as DLC fighters #2 and #3 (not counting the plant).

Yeah, it probably means #2 and #3 will be revealed/announced at E3

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Endgame has been discussed a lot on Smashboards already. I don't see why there's a huge problem with me saying when I'm going to see it.

You’re missing the point. I don’t care if you talk about Avengers. But in a speculation thread like this I think we’d all prefer some context if you’re posting that you’re excited about non-Geno things, that’s all.

See Ovaltine’s post:

Eh, I see what KC's talking about. I saw the post this morning on my phone, and my heart jumped... only to learn it was about Avengers. Just provide a little context next time, aye?

 

[Loliko YnT]

Maybe a Steve and Banjo and Kazooie reveal is likely... If they want to announce 2 third parties characters for E3 ... Why not focusing on characters that belong to the company wich is going to be with Nintendo at E3?
I'm gonna keep my hopes low for now until I scream "BANJO ! KAZOOIE !" like an idot when the smash logo will show up

By the way , I'm still waiting for Luigi's Mansion 3 info and Nintendo selects to come back. I want Odyssey so badly...

A fun question to you all , do you want something very unexpected/unlikely from Nintendo's E3 , besides Smash newcomers ?
My want would be a Mario RPG collection. By that I mean , Super Mario RPG , all of the Mario and Luigi , and all of the Paper Mario. It's never going to happen , but I like to dream.
On a somewhat more realistic prediction , I would loooooooooove something related to Pikmin 4. Anything.