Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Son of a *****, I did it again. I saw the future, haha.

Lole!! He has gun!! Haha!!

 

[Datboigeno]

After watching papagenos new vid I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the random stage builder witch might be a hint towards Banjo-Kazooie

 

[Deleted member]

After watching papagenos new vid I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the random stage builder witch might be a hint towards Banjo-Kazooie

I thought that was just a regular witch. Then I thought about it being a B-K hint, but then I thought "Nah, that can't be it"

 

[GrungeMan]

I thought that was just a regular witch. Then I thought about it being a B-K hint, but then I thought "Nah, that can't be it"

I think it might be. I've tried to keep a level-head, but why a random green witch among so many other Nintendo references like Mario, Captain Falcon, and Earthbound?

I'll have to watch again, but is the witch the only non-Nintendo reference during the stage builder segment?

I'm not sure how into Halloween Japan is to be honest and I don't think there are steriotypical green witches in Persona and other third parties... If it's just random, then that is kind of cruel haha... I mean, for the random stage builder asset to not reference the primary antagonist of a wildy requested character... and is just a plain ol' witch? Damn...

Still, Imma keep my hopes down.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Son of a *****, I did it again. I saw the future, haha.

Calm down there Katakuri, your observation haki might be getting a little TOO good there.

After watching papagenos new vid I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the random stage builder witch might be a hint towards Banjo-Kazooie

I would have though the Isaac situation would have taught us not to read too much in relatively minor things (And it's SUCH a stretch to say a fairly generic witch with a traditional black cat could be anything. Green's just the color you go for there and you have Wizard of Oz to thank for that too).

 

[N3ON]

I gotta be real, whether we wind up with Banjo or not, this witch business is a stone's throw away from the chairs/Rathalos/cloud nonsense of months past.

 

[GrungeMan]

Calm down there Katakuri, your observation haki might be getting a little TOO good there.



I would have though the Isaac situation would have taught us not to read too much in relatively minor things (And it's SUCH a stretch to say a fairly generic witch with a traditional black cat could be anything. Green's just the color you go for there and you have Wizard of Oz to thank for that too).

True. But the witch still feels oddly placed amongst everything else in that segment.

 

[N3ON]

True. But the witch still feels oddly placed amongst everything else in that segment.

There were also stereotypical dragons to go with the stereotypical witch.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Annd...joker himself has also just crushed an old rule sakurai himself had made during brawls life with snake(no realistic guns, yeah technically bayo did as well, but hers were still closer to fantasy than realistic).

What I’m kinda getting at with that...is zack is right, looking for patterns, and even sakurais own statements, in the past are pointless.

This can be taken both ways in genos case, so it neither hurts nor helps him, and so like I said the other night, stop stressing over it and just wait till the se character reveal. You guys are gonna drive yourselves insane otherwise.

Realistic guns seem to be allowed in a way now? Yay, Master Chief might have a chance!

​

Even if we do end up getting a Microsoft rep, if it's Banjo or Master Chief, it's a win for me. I'll take either, hell, I'll even take both!

 

[Ze Diglett]

What have y'all just been doing regarding speculation?

I've kinda distanced myself from it for a bit, and I don't post nearly as frequently as I previously did.

If my boys are confirmed though then I will spam the hell out of the site

Honestly, I've largely stepped away from speculation to the point that I basically only frequent this thread anymore. For me, personally, speculation was just a fun distraction while waiting for the game to come out, and now that it's out... yeah. I'm a lot more interested in spending my time playing the game than talking about it now that it's in my hands, quite frankly. I also enjoyed speculating a lot more before E3 when we knew nothing of what this game was even going to be and you could bring up pretty much any video game character and still contribute to the discussion. Nowadays, it seems you can't talk about anyone who isn't Erdrick, Banjo, or Steve without getting shot down.

On the topic of that "Direct" (because it basically was one as far as we Smash fans are concerned), am I the only one who absolutely POPPED OFF at that Stage Builder segment?! Seriously, seeing moving parts in Stage Builder resurrected my childhood curiosity for messing around with Brawl's Stage Builder and THEN some. I can't WAIT to play with some of that stuff when the update drops. My hype for that mode alone entirely eclipses Joker at the moment, quite frankly. (He still looks cool though.)

Also this witch talk is giving me serious flashbacks to The Chairs from the August Direct. Can we not bring that craze back, please? I get we don't have a whole lot to go on these next few months, but still, we can handle it without resorting to crackpot theories. Settle down and play some Smash, y'all. We got one hell of an update to look forward to.

 

[GrungeMan]

There were also stereotypical dragons to go with the stereotypical witch.

Nice! I completely missed that. So it was among other generic assets.

Unless the dragons reference Dragon Quest in addition to the witch referencing Banjo-Kazooie bwahahaha.

 

[GillyGrime]

After that showcase, I think Banjo is extremely likely now what with other Microsoft characters being either deconfirmed or in the case of Steve knocked severely by Minecraft team themselves. But also the DLC bringing spirits makes the Rare spirits in the games code seem like a foreshadow to me now.

Unfortunately, on the flip side, I think this confirms to me that Geno won’t be in the first fighter’s pass. I love Mario RPG but having a spirit board of just Mario RPG spin off characters is really unlikely considering Mallow is already in anyway. To me this basically confirms that the fighters pass will all be new 3rd party DLC.

I’m not down though. As said, the Mii costume is coming back I think, and I’m confident in more DLC down the line, so Geno is far from toast just yet. Time will tell, and until then I am amazed at the quality of this first bundle. It’s lowkey tempting me to go all in and buy a fighter’s pass...

 

[Piks]

One interesting note is that some leaks that have touted Erdrick as the Square-Enix rep said that Joker would be shown alongside Jack Frost. This was not the case.

I don't know what this means for Erdrick after all, but it might indicate leaks aren't quite right with the info that they have. Geno might be the Square-Enix rep.

 

[Loliko YnT]

I'll agree that getting him back through another Mario Square collaboration would be an idea move to really shut people up about him being "just a one-off" and renew a ton of interest in him. That's our best shot all around if he doesn't inherently make it into Smash Ultimate.

But I also think it’s entirely unlikely to see him in a non-Square produced spinoff. I feel like as a third party character that’s also not always got the biggest backing, he’s hard to justify Square Enix getting involved with otherwise completely in house produced Mario Kart, Mario Party, and Mario spin-off titles.

The big thing that Smash has that makes it the ideal Geno venue is that Square’d already at the table and willing to provide content for the game. Sakurai also works with several third parties and it’s an expected reality of Smash at this point where the spinoffs have almost entirely ignored and not gotten involved with. I doubt they’re going to get involved with third parties just for Geno like that when most of his support isn’t for his inclusion on those games. Plus, we’ve specifically got a director who likes Geno and potentially wants to include him, and I think it’s pretty unlikely that we’ll find a similar scenario with those spin-offs that don’t have such big name directors.

I think that’s why we need to rely so heavily on Smash for Geno. It’s either Smash or something else that Nintendo and Square inherently collaborate on with the Mario license. And I definitely think Smash is the more likely and easiest route to seeing Geno again of our options.

I understand your point of view.

As of now , seeing Geno in smash is more likely , than seeing the SMRPG crew (And I want to insist on that point , I want the whole cast to come back , be it Square allowing their use or Nintendo buying their rights) in a game like Mario Party or Mario Kart.

It's logical to think that , since Geno's smash support his huge , especially when we compare it to the few times he was in a game. (SMRPG is still to this day the only game where he has a major role)
If it wasn't for the leaks that started Erdrick's boost of popularity , I'm fairly sure most people would still be talking about Geno VS Sora or Geno VS Sephiroth , heck , even stuff like Geno VS Chocobo.

Geno has a fanbase that started over 2 decades ago ! Right now , a lot of progress for his potential inclusion in Smash has been made.

That's why I wanted people to give Operation Starfall a chance.
Yeah , we're still at the beggining of it , but if this operation has as many supporters as Geno for smash supporters , I'm sure this is going to make enough noise for Nintendo and Square Enix to notice.

Your point about using SMRPG characters in games that aren't made by Square Enix is valid.
Even through DLC , I doubt SE would accept the use of the SMRPG characters if they can use another character for cross-promotion. Even with Mario Kart standard , SE would probably be more willing to add someone like Chocobo or Mog.

However , let's suppose SE make a game using Mario characters , like they did with Fortune Street. It would be a Mario X Final Fantasy X Dragon Quest cross-over , it would also be a board/party game like Fortune Street.
So , they would add 15 character from every franchise , so that everyone is well represented and that they can give attention to FF and DQ.

Now , do you think it would be unlikely for SE to notice the huge support for SMRPG (Once again , we're supposing that people are focusing for SMRPG to come back , and that this idea has a massive following and ton of supporters) , and throw them a bone ? Something as simple as Mallow and Geno beeing playable in this game isn't that much effort.
It would be 2 3D models , some animations , and heck , they could even use SMRPG sound effect instead of voice actors.
It would be a small step to see how liked this little duo is ; I'm fairly sure that some people here would buy this game if Mallow and Geno were playable. (I know I would buy it lol)

That's an approach that I simply don't see a lot of people think about.

Do I think it's unlikely to see Geno be in Smash ? No , he's far from impossible in my opinion.
But this approach seem... Less stressful.

I dunno , maybe I'm missing something , or maybe I didn't made my intentions clear in my first post , but I do think that it's extremely important to think about this.

Now my opinion about Joker and the 3.0.0. update :

Joker is fast , have a knife , a gun , and something that look like 's limit.
End my ****ing life...

I'm not gonna enjoy fighting Joker players lol.

I'm not too much into stage builder , so this didn't do much for me.
The Persona costume look neat I guess. Nice to see Tails and Knux be back.

Also... If every DLCs has spirits with them... Doesn't it make Erdrick slighlty less likely?
I mean , we talked to death about how complicated DQ rights are , so asking for the use of several DQ characters seem even harder.

Granted , it's not much , but I wanted to point that out.

Also do anyone know if run and air speed has been buffed or not ? Nobody ? Alright

 

[Fatmanonice]

I think the big question now is whether E3 will show just one new character or two. The table's pretty much been set for a Microsoft rep, especially in light of DLC packs having new spirits and Mii costumes in tow. On the topic of Square Enix, it does bring up interesting talking points because, as others have said, we've talked to death about the liscensing of Dragon Quest and Square's stinginess in general. Low hanging fruit wise, we have Geno, Mallow, and Chocobo. Final Fantasy VII and SMRPG would be the easiest to make spirits for if a Square board winds up being a thing. I guess we'll need to see just how many new spirits Joker brings to make a better assessment of this.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I think the big question now is whether E3 will show just one new character or two. The table's pretty much been set for a Microsoft rep, especially in light of DLC packs having new spirits and Mii costumes in tow. On the topic of Square Enix, it does bring up interesting talking points because, as others have said, we've talked to death about the liscensing of Dragon Quest and Square's stinginess in general. Low hanging fruit wise, we have Geno, Mallow, and Chocobo. Final Fantasy VII and SMRPG would be the easiest to make spirits for if a Square board winds up being a thing. I guess we'll need to see just how many new spirits Joker brings to make a better assessment of this.

My guess is by E3, we get a full character reveal for fighter #2 who could be released as early as the day of the E3 direct or within a couple weeks after. Would make sense considering that'd be about 2 months from now and they only have 10 months to put out the rest of the 4 fighters.

And I also would guess we get an initial reveal for character #3 with just a short trailer similar to Joker's reveal last December.

 

[Firox]

I think the big question now is whether E3 will show just one new character or two. The table's pretty much been set for a Microsoft rep, especially in light of DLC packs having new spirits and Mii costumes in tow. On the topic of Square Enix, it does bring up interesting talking points because, as others have said, we've talked to death about the liscensing of Dragon Quest and Square's stinginess in general. Low hanging fruit wise, we have Geno, Mallow, and Chocobo. Final Fantasy VII and SMRPG would be the easiest to make spirits for if a Square board winds up being a thing. I guess we'll need to see just how many new spirits Joker brings to make a better assessment of this.

I love how Atlus is the exact opposite of Stingy-Enix. They gave us Joker, Mementos, TONS of music, extra spirits and mii skins for Personas 3 and 4 while SE gave us Cloud....and two music tracks....and a Midgar-skinned battlefield....oh and a chocobo mii skin...the end. Don't get me wrong, Cloud was and is epic AF but there is a noticeable difference here.

 

[Ovaltine]

I love how Atlus is the exact opposite of Stingy-Enix. They gave us Joker, Mementos, TONS of music, extra spirits and mii skins for Personas 3 and 4 while SE gave us Cloud....and two music tracks....and a Midgar-skinned battlefield....oh and a chocobo mii skin...the end. Don't get me wrong, Cloud was and is epic AF but there is a noticeable difference here.

Yeah, but that's at least Square's side. Enix themselves seem to be less on the stingy side, honestly. I could see DQ still getting a lot of content, especially after the DQ XI S soundtrack was made clear. That said, from the screenshot of the spirit board with the Persona spirits, it looks like it's no more than 12 spirits, given we have a snippet of another row of spirits with a fourth row missing. Unless there are more than that, ones that aren't yet displayed on that screen, that's not a huge number.

 

[Firox]

Yeah, but that's at least Square's side. Enix themselves seem to be less on the stingy side, honestly. I could see DQ still getting a lot of content, especially after the DQ XI S soundtrack was made clear. That said, from the screenshot of the spirit board with the Persona spirits, it looks like it's no more than 12 spirits, given we have a snippet of another row of spirits with a fourth row missing. Unless there are more than that, ones that aren't yet displayed on that screen, that's not a huge number.

True, but 12 spirits is more than simply "Cloud" and "Angstier Cloud".

 

[Ovaltine]

True, but 12 spirits is more than simply "Cloud" and "Angstier Cloud".

Again, my point is that this is stinginess on Square's side. We don't know about as much on Enix's side, and in fact, we have evidence of the contrary. 12 spirits isn't out of the realm of possibility for a lot of characters, really.

 

[Firox]

Again, my point is that this is stinginess on Square's side. We don't know about as much on Enix's side, and in fact, we have evidence of the contrary. 12 spirits isn't out of the realm of possibility for a lot of characters, really.

So is it that Square owns Final Fantasy and Enix owns DQ? What other games differentiate the two?

 

[Ovaltine]

So is it that Square owns Final Fantasy and Enix owns DQ? What other games differentiate the two?

FF is originally a Squaresoft franchise, whereas DQ is originally Enix, yeah. I believe Square handles most of the big franchises they have while Enix has mainly DQ.

 

[helloiamhere]

Actually, Yuji Horii had an exclusive contract with Enix (that carried after the Merger) about ownership of DQ

The series' monsters, characters, and box art were designed by Toriyama.[8] The music for the Dragon Quest series was composed by Koichi Sugiyama.[91] In the past, Dragon Quest games have been developed by Chunsoft, Heartbeat, ArtePiazza and, starting with Dragon Quest VIII, Level-5.[92] Horii's company, Armor Project, is in charge of the Dragon Quest games that were published by Enix and Square Enix.​

Horii currently heads his own production company, Armor Project, a company that has an exclusive production contract with Square Enix,[7] a contract established with Enix before the company merged with Square.​

 

[Firox]

Joker is fast , have a knife , a gun , and something that look like 's limit.
End my ****ing life...

I'm not gonna enjoy fighting Joker players lol.

This is why I'm betting Joker is going to be instantly high tier at the least. Can you imagine how badly ppl can abuse that charge counter of his? You could interrupt any string with it, especially when trying to land safely. Not to mention projectile spammers will want to slit their wrists. Every boomerang, every bomb, every holy water=Arsene-to-the-face time. Yeah, throw those Pikmin....for non-stop charge. My best advise for fighting him would be to bait out his down B with foxtrots and be super liberal with grabs. As much as it could suck to fight him, I can only imagine how fun it will be to play AS him. You see that grappling hook pull ppl out of midair? I can't wait to figure out a combo where I pop the opponent up, then yank em back down for the followup....

 

[Ovaltine]

Actually, Yuji Horii had an exclusive contract with Enix (that carried after the Merger) about ownership of DQ

That's... extremely interesting. I can only imagine Enix's side and Armor Project would end up getting most of the profits for Erdrick then. It makes me wonder if this will affect how much Square is going to want out of that profit pie. Could easily still just be Mii costumes, but what if we just get Enix rep with an Erdrick pack? DQ costumes and Chrono Trigger costumes would be featured in such a case. Makes me wonder if Geno still has the teeniest, tiniest shot left.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Fun thing to mention, Polar Panda's source knew about Joker's reveal today and teased it an hour beforehand in our Discord. He's been teasing about dropping super esoteric hints about the future but, with how frustrated "the crabs" left everyone last time, I'm kind of afraid to ask. E3 is already hard enough to wait for.

I'd say go for it. The wait will be hell no matter what, might as well have some talking points.

 

[Deleted member]

So, I'm gonna be honest. One of the reasons I've kinda distance myself from speculation and post a lot less in this thread is because of the same repeat of discussion. For instance, one of the reasons I just love the Ninten thread so much is how we don't constantly talk about Ninten's chances. We let our creativity run wild and we have fun with it. All that happens here is discussion about whether or not Erdrick is confirmed and whether or not Geno is done.

So, c'mon. Let's just bring up new topics, like what could change in a potential SMRPG remake or sequel, things you like or don't like about SMRPG, without constantly talking about Geno's chances (and trust me, we haven't covered everything about potential changes in an SMRPG remake or sequel).

For example, I think it'd be cool if they changed the limit of coins you hold from 999 to 9,999. Sometimes, only being able to carry 999 coins can be annoying because any coins you gain after that go to waste.

 

[GenoFlash]

So, I'm gonna be honest. One of the reasons I've kinda distance myself from speculation and post a lot less in this thread is because of the same repeat of discussion. For instance, one of the reasons I just love the Ninten thread so much is how we don't constantly talk about Ninten's chances. We let our creativity run wild and we have fun with it. All that happens here is discussion about whether or not Erdrick is confirmed and whether or not Geno is done.

So, c'mon. Let's just bring up new topics, like what could change in a potential SMRPG remake or sequel, things you like or don't like about SMRPG, without constantly talking about Geno's chances (and trust me, we haven't covered everything about potential changes in an SMRPG remake or sequel).

For example, I think it'd be cool if they changed the limit of coins you hold from 999 to 9,999. Sometimes, only being able to carry 999 coins can be annoying because any coins you gain after that go to waste.

Hard mode. Absolutely a hard mode. The teeniest amount of grinding early on can completely trivialize the entire game.

Remake or sequel, I really want an expansion on Geno's character and personality. The detractors are right to an extent that he doesn't really have a lot going for him in that regard (though I think it's more understated than non-existent). Being the breakout star (ha) of the game I really think there's an opportunity to mine him deeper and give him more emphasis as a character.

A faithful modernization of the original pre-rendered models. Maybe something like a puppet show aesthetic.

Nuking Yo'ster Isle into the ground because that minigame sucks.

More superbosses, like EX versions of the Smithy Gang.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, I'm gonna be honest. One of the reasons I've kinda distance myself from speculation and post a lot less in this thread is because of the same repeat of discussion. For instance, one of the reasons I just love the Ninten thread so much is how we don't constantly talk about Ninten's chances. We let our creativity run wild and we have fun with it. All that happens here is discussion about whether or not Erdrick is confirmed and whether or not Geno is done.

So, c'mon. Let's just bring up new topics, like what could change in a potential SMRPG remake or sequel, things you like or don't like about SMRPG, without constantly talking about Geno's chances (and trust me, we haven't covered everything about potential changes in an SMRPG remake or sequel).

For example, I think it'd be cool if they changed the limit of coins you hold from 999 to 9,999. Sometimes, only being able to carry 999 coins can be annoying because any coins you gain after that go to waste.

-Add at least 2 additional chapters.
-Create 1 or 2 new playable characters.
-A whole slew of optional boss fights.
-Increase the level cap.
-Increase the size of the inventory.
-Increase the coin cap.
-Allow the ability to switch out Mario.
-Nerf Peach, buff Mallow.
-Make Bowser's specials not be total garbage.
-Add a hard mode or boss rush mode.

 

[Ovaltine]

Remake or sequel, I really want an expansion on Geno's character and personality. The detractors are right to an extent that he doesn't really have a lot going for him in that regard (though I think it's more understated than non-existent). Being the breakout star (ha) of the game I really think there's an opportunity to mine him deeper and give him more emphasis as a character.

THIS, THIS, SO MUCH THIS. Geno DESPERATELY needs that. The thing that gets me about him, the reason why I love him so much, is the raw amount of potential he has. He has plenty of it, along with a cool design and a character concept that could seriously go places. His potential was totally, 100% squandered. The detractors are honestly right in that regard and I totally understand why a lot of people find Geno overrated. I used to hate him, so I was on the other side once upon a time. Now that I realize what COULD be done with him, though, it makes me want him to come back so much more.

 

[Deleted member]

Now that I think about it, I also think it'd be cool if they split the game up into different chapters and have a prologue and epilogue, for example, say, the prologue could be from Mario entering Bowser's castle at the beginning of the game until they experience the explosion and witness Exor, and the collection of each star piece could be a chapter of the game.

They could add an epilogue or a twist at the end of an SMRPG remake, which could lead into a potential sequel to SMRPG.

 

[Fatmanonice]

THIS, THIS, SO MUCH THIS. Geno DESPERATELY needs that. The thing that gets me about him, the reason why I love him so much, is the raw amount of potential he has. He has plenty of it, along with a cool design and a character concept that could seriously go places. His potential was totally, 100% squandered. The detractors are honestly right in that regard and I totally understand why a lot of people find Geno overrated. I used to hate him, so I was on the other side once upon a time. Now that I realize what COULD be done with him, though, it makes me want him to come back so much more.

Geno was honestly a product of his times. Even in RPGs, most video game characters didn't have super fleshed out personalities and SMRPG was the first game that even the Mario mainstays had any real semblance of individuality. With the way gaming has changed, it's especially noticeable now. On the upside, it does allow a significant amount of freedom for growth for the character.

 

[Ovaltine]

Geno was honestly a product of his times. Even in RPGs, most video game characters didn't have super fleshed out personalities and SMRPG was the first game that even the Mario mainstays had any real semblance of individuality. With the way gaming has changed, it's especially noticeable now. On the upside, it does allow a significant amount of freedom for growth for the character.

It also allows for great headcanon and fan content room for this good boy.

You will pry the headcanon that the star spirits are his higher authority, yet he's still yearning for Rosalina to become more of a mother figure to him from my cold, dead hands.

 

[Teeb147]

Almost at page 900. congrats in advance y'all

Hope everyone enjoys joker in a little over 5 hours i think. (edit: maybe actually 8 hours, if the patch time is right)
(well whoever buys the dlc, i guess)

 

[Loliko YnT]

This is why I'm betting Joker is going to be instantly high tier at the least. Can you imagine how badly ppl can abuse that charge counter of his? You could interrupt any string with it, especially when trying to land safely. Not to mention projectile spammers will want to slit their wrists. Every boomerang, every bomb, every holy water=Arsene-to-the-face time. Yeah, throw those Pikmin....for non-stop charge. My best advise for fighting him would be to bait out his down B with foxtrots and be super liberal with grabs. As much as it could suck to fight him, I can only imagine how fun it will be to play AS him. You see that grappling hook pull ppl out of midair? I can't wait to figure out a combo where I pop the opponent up, then yank em back down for the followup....

Joker down-b is like any counter.
Whiff it and it's a free grab for the opponent (and god know how scary the grab game of some characters can be , and so on) we don't even know if it has a quick start up like 's revenge or nah. So the "break strings" theory might not even work here.

However , it look like the perfect counter to mindless camping with projectiles. And as main... Throw the pikmin with side-b to bait down-b , call back the pikmin with down-b , free opening. Or just condition to throw a projectile at a specific time (after a jump as an example) , and punish the fact that he got conditionned (tomahawk grab).

His up-b grab look neat , but it's also stuck to only one angle. So uh yeah , not so great.

My main worry about him is that he's a fast projectile with slightly disjointed attacks and projectiles. He also look very mobile. But he's also probably going to be a light weight , and some of his attacks look surprisingly laggy to me...

Also , Arsene disappear over time , so Joker can get camped out if the opponent is smart enough. Play defensive and punish him when you have the opportunity and he's going to struggle to do much.

And yeah , about a SMRPG remake...

Add cutscenes. No , not using the in-game engine. I want an animated cutscene of Geno coming to life , an animated cutscene of Mallow chasing Croco in the mushroom kingdom , ect...

Stuff like fleshing out Geno's personnality (he need to talk more , don't be shy mah boi) , nerfing Peach and buffing Mallow and Bowser , Luigi as an optional party member.
It would be neat if you could recruit Boshi after beating him in Yo'ster Island.

 

[Teeb147]

Joker down-b is like any counter.
Whiff it and it's a free grab for the opponent (and god know how scary the grab game of some characters can be , and so on) we don't even know if it has a quick start up like 's revenge or nah. So the "break strings" theory might not even work here.

However , it look like the perfect counter to mindless camping with projectiles. And as main... Throw the pikmin with side-b to bait down-b , call back the pikmin with down-b , free opening. Or just condition to throw a projectile at a specific time (after a jump as an example) , and punish the fact that he got conditionned (tomahawk grab).

His up-b grab look neat , but it's also stuck to only one angle. So uh yeah , not so great.

My main worry about him is that he's a fast projectile with slightly disjointed attacks and projectiles. He also look very mobile. But he's also probably going to be a light weight , and some of his attacks look surprisingly laggy to me...

Also , Arsene disappear over time , so Joker can get camped out if the opponent is smart enough. Play defensive and punish him when you have the opportunity and he's going to struggle to do much.

And yeah , about a SMRPG remake...

Add cutscenes. No , not using the in-game engine. I want an animated cutscene of Geno coming to life , an animated cutscene of Mallow chasing Croco in the mushroom kingdom , ect...

Stuff like fleshing out Geno's personnality (he need to talk more , don't be shy mah boi) , nerfing Peach and buffing Mallow and Bowser , Luigi as an optional party member.
It would be neat if you could recruit Boshi after beating him in Yo'ster Island.

Joker looks really good. We dont know how good he is at ko'ing yet, but his speed and damage from afar already puts him high. The up-b might not be quite as good as ivysaur's, but it's got even higher range so you gotta be careful when youre high in the air against him. I didn't notice too much lag besides the usual moves that do. Not long before we can test it all out tho :D

 

[Mastadoom88]

Now speculating about Mario rpg I can do.

More battles with the Axem Rangers before that original fight.

I agree about switching Mario out being a thing.

Also, make Croco playable!

 

[egaddmario]

If we ever start to falter, remember the vifam figure Nothing's over until we figure out what that figure was used for.

 

[ForsakenM]

If we ever start to falter, remember the vifam figure Nothing's over until we figure out what that figure was used for.

You know, when actually was that stated? Was it before or after Geno's Mii Costume?

 

[Loliko YnT]

Joker looks really good. We dont know how good he is at ko'ing yet, but his speed and damage from afar already puts him high. The up-b might not be quite as good as ivysaur's, but it's got even higher range so you gotta be careful when youre high in the air against him. I didn't notice too much lag besides the usual moves that do. Not long before we can test it all out tho :D

I... Honestly will take the mentality you proposed at your last sentence.

We need to have a playable Joker + enough time to decide how good he is.

Because...

Remember when people thought would be broken again because she laddered a Melee player on Greens Greens , and that the Melee player was playing ?

Remember when people thought could be nothing but amazing with their range and projectiles ?

Remember when people thought and would be garbage because footstools combos weren't a thing anymore ?

Remember when people thought would be amazing after learning the changes in Ultimate and testing him at the E3 demo ?

REMEMBER WHEN PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS JUST GOING TO BE A JOKE AND MEME CHARACTER???

I'm not going to think a character is good or horribly bad based on so little gameplay footage and theory crafting.

I'm not saying you're dumb or anything , but these experiences teached me that we need the real deal before thinking about a character viability.