Kuon
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I can't argue with that
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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior
- Thread starter PsychoIncarnate
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Bestmand902
Smash Lord
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Necro Toad
Smash Apprentice
This mainstream argument is what worries me. It's like Geno's nemesis (22 years old obscure secondary spin off character) got stronger. I'm really curious to see why
Fatmanonice
think that the last night was good for Geno... We don't have to worry with verge, insiders, etc any more. But now it seems like Geno isn't popular enough
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Ladies and Gentlemen, the State of the Geno™ address. Last night was amazing on a lot of fronts and I wanted to go over them in detail.
-Sephiroth's No Good Very Bad Day™: Given last night's events, I feel that I'm free to talk about this. Inside insider circles, Sephiroth now has almost as many people saying that he's flat out not going to be in as Sora. This makes sense based on yesterday's events. For starters, Joker is technically a SEGA character, adding pretty conclusive evidence that they are not going to double dip in third party franchises. My theory I made about brand saturation vs brand expansion seems to be spot on. If a franchise was going to double dip with a new unique character in Smash, Sonic was by far the most likely and these chances have gone down significantly, bringing everything else to a bottom level.
Another interesting thing that came out was the credits of Smash Ultimate. What was particularly interesting was the creative and content consultants for third party characters. Most had like 20-30 except Square Enix and Namco. Namco had one for Pac-Man. Makes sense as he's a simple arcade character with a number of references to other simple arcade games. It also helps that they're literally the ones developing the game so it's not like they needed to fly people in to ask any questions if they hit a snag with him.
Then there's Square Enix... It has three for all the Final Fantasy content. It's as bare minimum as you can get: basically the director of FF VII, Cloud's character designer, and one of the lead people for Advent Children. That's it. I'm willing to bet that even characters like Wii Fit have more creative consultants than this. More would definitely need to be on board if Sephiroth was seriously considered along with a second FF VII stage based on even the sizable number for characters like Bayonetta.
-Joker is very clearly not a corporate pick. Persona 5 has yet to be released on a Nintendo platform. Even if it's part of the sprawling Shin Megami Tensei series, this knowledge is esoteric to most people. You'd pretty much only know this if you were a fan of the franchise or cared to look it up. Your typical 12 year old isn't likely to know this series or even your typical Nintendo fan. SMT is fairly niche, especially on Nintendo platforms. This is a deliberate hook and hyper focused leading to my next point...
-A character like Joker is pretty much the exact opposite of a shill. Nintendo's not casting their net out wide with this pick, they are targeting a specific demographic. Maximum profit is not the goal, it's pleasing fans. Again, if this was Nintendo's leading concern, Tails would all be but confirmed to be the next SEGA character. Make no mistake, however, a decent number of people wanted SMT represented in Smash, they just thought it was nearly impossible. But we've seen this before. This was done with Cloud and Bayonetta largely for two reasons...
-Fans wanted the character and so did Sakurai. This is one of the biggest takeaways of last night. Sakurai has mentioned the importance of global appeal and choosing characters that not only people want but bring something new to the table. This is hard proof that Sakurai had a lot more power in choosing characters than originally thought. Again, Joker is a super niche pick but ultimately still wanted. I'd argue that this is a bullet in the head of Dragon Quest and Sephiroth that have virtually no Smash demand. Sakurai is listening to the fans and Nintendo is listening to Sakurai.
-In regards to Dragon Quest: with Sephiroth now being seen as being on as weak legs as Sora, a lot of people in insider circles have jumped onto the Dragon Quest ship, specifically Erdrick, without realizing they've boarded the Titanic and some idiot in the boiler room thinks he's discovered a quick way to remove the clutter of the excess propane tanks laying around. The reason for this is that most of them have flat out come out and said they only believe this because Nintendo wants to promote Dragon Quest Builders 2 and Dragon Quest XI S, two ports with one just being publically announced in September and without a clue when it will come out. That's it. People are banking on Nintendo to go into MAXIMUM OVERSHILL for this... It's extreme cynicism and pessimism rolled into one.
We've gone into depth about this topic but here are the biggest problems.
-The liscensing for the series is comically bad. On a base level, it's liscensed by Square Enix (asset holder), Armor Project (asset owner), Bird Studio (all characters), and Yoichi Sugiyama (all music). For Erdrick, yet another company has ownership by the name of Heart Beat, a liquidated company that still has share holders scattered around.
-The series is overwhelmingly more popular in Japan than anywhere else. It's estimated about 93% of its sales come from Japan. No prescence in Smash will ever change this.
-In its 32 year history, it's never been liscensed out for gaming crossovers. All crossovers like Fortune Street and Mario Sports Mix were developed by Square Enix, meaning that Nintendo was more willing to liscense out the most valuable IP in gaming than Square was their second most profitable IP. Let that sink in. Unless Armor Project and Bird Studio have creative control of the project, they want nothing to do with it.
-Even in Japan, demand for DQ content in Smash is near non existent. It's a complete ghost. In Japanese polls I've seen over the years, Slime is lucky to crack top 50. Yes, that's right... More DQ fans want the equivalent of a Goomba playable than any of the main characters. That's pretty telling.
So, to recap, no global appeal, no demand, and possibly the most complicated liscensing in all of gaming. Keep in mind that Sakurai has noted that Cloud was a huge struggle to get and Square fought him almost every step of the way and was constantly breathing down his neck. That's with just one IP share holder, imagine one character with up to four. I'm pretty sure my balls just shot up into my stomach just thinking about it... It's more hassle and more work for something virtually no one wants. Why bother? Add on top of this that everyone that predicted DQ to win anything or have anything shown off last night was dead wrong and LeakyPanda and Hitagi are unlikely to recover from it. On to the final point...
-People are taking Reggie's words too literally. It reminds me of "up until now" from the Brawl days, that even I fell for. There's definitely room for nuance and, let's be real, Geno would still be a huge surprise for a vast majority of people. Even as this thread has shown, Geno fans themselves are split and tons of people think the spirit/icon was a death sentence. I've watched you guys and your certainty shifts constantly. Even people on the inside are twisting themselves in knots to justify Dragon Quest despite its mountains of complications (which they probably just don't know about, to be honest).
Geno's assessed chances among insiders basically stems from Vergeben's main source's doubts. That's it. I've seen the message. He even explains that he doubts it for personal reasons he didn't want to openly talk about. That's Def-Con 1 suspicious on its own but, again, that's it when it comes to major doubts on the inside. Geno's regularly heard too and multiple people have reported on it. PolarPanda's source says it's literally the only Square Enix character he's heard this whole cycle. It's hardly a shut case and you shouldn't let anyone tell you otherwise. I can confirm everything good and bad for Geno is merely hearsay with the one bad thing coming from one person.
So, in conclusion, last night was an amazing night for Geno and people should feel optimistic. Sakurai's listening. Nintendo's listening. Third parties seem to be listening too. This is definitely DLC being made for fans. Things are very vague behind the scenes because, as evidenced last night, Nintendo is keeping DLC extremely secret. We'll be lucky to get crumbs from this point forward. Square Enix still seems likely by all of accounts and evidence emerging yesterday suggest Namco will either have Tales DLC or nothing at all for DLC with the former being more likely. Still, I want you guys to be patient and hang in there. We've come this far and things are looking up at this standpoint.
-Sephiroth's No Good Very Bad Day™: Given last night's events, I feel that I'm free to talk about this. Inside insider circles, Sephiroth now has almost as many people saying that he's flat out not going to be in as Sora. This makes sense based on yesterday's events. For starters, Joker is technically a SEGA character, adding pretty conclusive evidence that they are not going to double dip in third party franchises. My theory I made about brand saturation vs brand expansion seems to be spot on. If a franchise was going to double dip with a new unique character in Smash, Sonic was by far the most likely and these chances have gone down significantly, bringing everything else to a bottom level.
Another interesting thing that came out was the credits of Smash Ultimate. What was particularly interesting was the creative and content consultants for third party characters. Most had like 20-30 except Square Enix and Namco. Namco had one for Pac-Man. Makes sense as he's a simple arcade character with a number of references to other simple arcade games. It also helps that they're literally the ones developing the game so it's not like they needed to fly people in to ask any questions if they hit a snag with him.
Then there's Square Enix... It has three for all the Final Fantasy content. It's as bare minimum as you can get: basically the director of FF VII, Cloud's character designer, and one of the lead people for Advent Children. That's it. I'm willing to bet that even characters like Wii Fit have more creative consultants than this. More would definitely need to be on board if Sephiroth was seriously considered along with a second FF VII stage based on even the sizable number for characters like Bayonetta.
-Joker is very clearly not a corporate pick. Persona 5 has yet to be released on a Nintendo platform. Even if it's part of the sprawling Shin Megami Tensei series, this knowledge is esoteric to most people. You'd pretty much only know this if you were a fan of the franchise or cared to look it up. Your typical 12 year old isn't likely to know this series or even your typical Nintendo fan. SMT is fairly niche, especially on Nintendo platforms. This is a deliberate hook and hyper focused leading to my next point...
-A character like Joker is pretty much the exact opposite of a shill. Nintendo's not casting their net out wide with this pick, they are targeting a specific demographic. Maximum profit is not the goal, it's pleasing fans. Again, if this was Nintendo's leading concern, Tails would all be but confirmed to be the next SEGA character. Make no mistake, however, a decent number of people wanted SMT represented in Smash, they just thought it was nearly impossible. But we've seen this before. This was done with Cloud and Bayonetta largely for two reasons...
-Fans wanted the character and so did Sakurai. This is one of the biggest takeaways of last night. Sakurai has mentioned the importance of global appeal and choosing characters that not only people want but bring something new to the table. This is hard proof that Sakurai had a lot more power in choosing characters than originally thought. Again, Joker is a super niche pick but ultimately still wanted. I'd argue that this is a bullet in the head of Dragon Quest and Sephiroth that have virtually no Smash demand. Sakurai is listening to the fans and Nintendo is listening to Sakurai.
-In regards to Dragon Quest: with Sephiroth now being seen as being on as weak legs as Sora, a lot of people in insider circles have jumped onto the Dragon Quest ship, specifically Erdrick, without realizing they've boarded the Titanic and some idiot in the boiler room thinks he's discovered a quick way to remove the clutter of the excess propane tanks laying around. The reason for this is that most of them have flat out come out and said they only believe this because Nintendo wants to promote Dragon Quest Builders 2 and Dragon Quest XI S, two ports with one just being publically announced in September and without a clue when it will come out. That's it. People are banking on Nintendo to go into MAXIMUM OVERSHILL for this... It's extreme cynicism and pessimism rolled into one.
We've gone into depth about this topic but here are the biggest problems.
-The liscensing for the series is comically bad. On a base level, it's liscensed by Square Enix (asset holder), Armor Project (asset owner), Bird Studio (all characters), and Yoichi Sugiyama (all music). For Erdrick, yet another company has ownership by the name of Heart Beat, a liquidated company that still has share holders scattered around.
-The series is overwhelmingly more popular in Japan than anywhere else. It's estimated about 93% of its sales come from Japan. No prescence in Smash will ever change this.
-In its 32 year history, it's never been liscensed out for gaming crossovers. All crossovers like Fortune Street and Mario Sports Mix were developed by Square Enix, meaning that Nintendo was more willing to liscense out the most valuable IP in gaming than Square was their second most profitable IP. Let that sink in. Unless Armor Project and Bird Studio have creative control of the project, they want nothing to do with it.
-Even in Japan, demand for DQ content in Smash is near non existent. It's a complete ghost. In Japanese polls I've seen over the years, Slime is lucky to crack top 50. Yes, that's right... More DQ fans want the equivalent of a Goomba playable than any of the main characters. That's pretty telling.
So, to recap, no global appeal, no demand, and possibly the most complicated liscensing in all of gaming. Keep in mind that Sakurai has noted that Cloud was a huge struggle to get and Square fought him almost every step of the way and was constantly breathing down his neck. That's with just one IP share holder, imagine one character with up to four. I'm pretty sure my balls just shot up into my stomach just thinking about it... It's more hassle and more work for something virtually no one wants. Why bother? Add on top of this that everyone that predicted DQ to win anything or have anything shown off last night was dead wrong and LeakyPanda and Hitagi are unlikely to recover from it. On to the final point...
-People are taking Reggie's words too literally. It reminds me of "up until now" from the Brawl days, that even I fell for. There's definitely room for nuance and, let's be real, Geno would still be a huge surprise for a vast majority of people. Even as this thread has shown, Geno fans themselves are split and tons of people think the spirit/icon was a death sentence. I've watched you guys and your certainty shifts constantly. Even people on the inside are twisting themselves in knots to justify Dragon Quest despite its mountains of complications (which they probably just don't know about, to be honest).
Geno's assessed chances among insiders basically stems from Vergeben's main source's doubts. That's it. I've seen the message. He even explains that he doubts it for personal reasons he didn't want to openly talk about. That's Def-Con 1 suspicious on its own but, again, that's it when it comes to major doubts on the inside. Geno's regularly heard too and multiple people have reported on it. PolarPanda's source says it's literally the only Square Enix character he's heard this whole cycle. It's hardly a shut case and you shouldn't let anyone tell you otherwise. I can confirm everything good and bad for Geno is merely hearsay with the one bad thing coming from one person.
So, in conclusion, last night was an amazing night for Geno and people should feel optimistic. Sakurai's listening. Nintendo's listening. Third parties seem to be listening too. This is definitely DLC being made for fans. Things are very vague behind the scenes because, as evidenced last night, Nintendo is keeping DLC extremely secret. We'll be lucky to get crumbs from this point forward. Square Enix still seems likely by all of accounts and evidence emerging yesterday suggest Namco will either have Tales DLC or nothing at all for DLC with the former being more likely. Still, I want you guys to be patient and hang in there. We've come this far and things are looking up at this standpoint.
Loliko YnT
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Well... I'm happy for Joker fans.
At least I have my Ice Climbers.
Hoping for Geno to be here , or at least the costume.
I wasn't expecting much from the VGA... And the joker announcement did... Nothing to me. No happiness , no anger , no disapointement...just... Nothing.
I just hope P5 get a Switch port , otherwise , I don't see the point. Sorry if that sound harsh.
At least I have my Ice Climbers.
Hoping for Geno to be here , or at least the costume.
I wasn't expecting much from the VGA... And the joker announcement did... Nothing to me. No happiness , no anger , no disapointement...just... Nothing.
I just hope P5 get a Switch port , otherwise , I don't see the point. Sorry if that sound harsh.
FalconFire93
Smash Lord
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Since Joker is now a character, hopefully we’ll get Last Surprise and Life Will Change for music tracks, because I’ll definitely be bumping those along with the Castlevania tracks. 
ShinyReshiram
Smash Apprentice
SSGuy
Smash Champion
This all sounds really great, however forgive me if I am looking too deep into this but doesnt this open the doors wide open for Sora now?
coolcat12347
Smash Journeyman
Better question:
Is Verge basically untrustworthy now?
Is Verge basically untrustworthy now?
kiteinthesky
Smash Ace
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- 902
The way it sounded to me, it sounds like we're either getting Geno or no Square rep at all.
Remember Fatmanonice said
Implying both of them most likely won't get in.
Also, if Square was as difficult to work with as Fatmanonice said, that doesn't look good for Geno. I'm still gonna hold out hope regardless, but still.
HolyKnight
Smash Journeyman
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- 251
Well, he is in as a spirit, whos to say nintendo didn't just buy everything from smrpg for their own use?The way it sounded to me, it sounds like we're either getting Geno or no Square rep at all.
Remember Fatmanonice said
Implying both of them most likely won't get in.
Also, if Square was as difficult to work with as Fatmanonice said, that doesn't look good for Geno. I'm still gonna hold out hope regardless, but still.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Probably not. Sora's out of the running by numerous accounts with strong confidence. It could be wrong but it's also banking on a lot of people having bad intel. It would be different if it was inconclusive, like in the case of Geno, but his case is less "I don't think he'll be in" and more "I'm almost 100% sure he's out" by multiple people. Again, it could all be wrong and eluded all these people but the odds are against it.
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We should not lose hope gang! I believe what
Fatmanonice
has said and stated, last night was a good night for Geno in my eyes!
No one has an idea what the DLC truly is, but one thing is for sure, Sakurai AND Nintendo are listening and gearing the picks to the fans.
Fatmanonice
has said and stated, last night was a good night for Geno in my eyes!No one has an idea what the DLC truly is, but one thing is for sure, Sakurai AND Nintendo are listening and gearing the picks to the fans.
ShinyReshiram
Smash Apprentice
This opens doors to literally every character, but we have been discussing Sora's copyright issues here for more than 10 pages and the answer of his inclusion is obvious, unless Nintendo REALLY wants to step into Disney's territory.
We're currently witnessing Verge's damage control lol, the answer is clear. Trust no one but probably dataminers if we ever get any DLC evidences in future patches.
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i saw many people say that, but i don't understand at all why
Could you explain please ? Not being sarcastic here
Taking what Fatmanonice said, i feel like Rex&Pyra are also a shoe-in as DLC picks
Whether it's fan favorites DLC or Sakurai's favorites (i kinda feel it's a bit of that) considering how Sakurai did say he loved Persona 5, he wanted Geno in, he regrets not putting Rex from Xenoblade 2 to the point of making public excuses it could give
1) Joker from Persona 5
2) Geno from Super Mario RPG
3) Rex&Pyra from Xenoblade 2
4 and 5 would have to be looked through lastest big and popular games, and not necessarly on nintendo switch regarding Persona 5, and from the few past years
Edit: i just realized, concerning Square Enix, those last arguments and the way Joker from Persona 5 was chosen, i just have the weird feeling that 2B from Nier Automata has strong chances of becoming DLC instead of Geno
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Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
I mean, on the upside, Geno's already in the game so the liscensing aspect isn't an issue. Nintendo already has assets to use thanks to the Mii costume so basically the only true dead end for Geno at this point is if Square flat out says no to him being playable. "Well, he doesn't market anything recent" argument was all but stabbed to death last night as Persona 5 itself is a Sony exclusive and Sakurai clearly DGAF if it makes fans happy so Square would basically be turning down free money if they said no against what will probably be one of Nintendo's best selling games in the past decade.The way it sounded to me, it sounds like we're either getting Geno or no Square rep at all.
Remember Fatmanonice said
Implying both of them most likely won't get in.
Also, if Square was as difficult to work with as Fatmanonice said, that doesn't look good for Geno. I'm still gonna hold out hope regardless, but still.
PhilosophicAnimal
Smash Ace
Preach, Fatman. Make me believe again.
Seriously, thank you. That helps put back some of the hope I had. It's not quite the same level as before, but it's getting better.
Honestly, I'd be fine if Reggie had kept his big yap shut. That stuff he said us what gets me the most. It's the source of all my doubt. And I can just see us debating the true meaning of his words for the next month or so...
Sometimes, it's better to just show the trailer and not talk, Reggie.
Well we're in for something like 4 or 5 more months of wait for a new character to be revealed
let's say the plant is out debut february with a gameplay trailer for Joker
Joker might be out in april, with him a trailer for the next DLC character
let's say the plant is out debut february with a gameplay trailer for Joker
Joker might be out in april, with him a trailer for the next DLC character
The Anigriffin
Smash Lord
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Persona may be a niche, but it DOES have a large fanbase.
I wonder how many picks are going to target other niche. but large fanbases...
I wonder how many picks are going to target other niche. but large fanbases...
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Funktastic
Smash Apprentice
Damn, I played way too long. Inkling sort of fills that spot of long range blaster character Geno is meant to fill <4
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Tales falls into this too. As others have noted, Geno's not mainstream either. He's a literal who to most people, just like Joker, outside fans of their respective games, which is a lot. That's one of the big takeaways of Joker's reveal: the mainstream isn't the deciding factor, it's fans.
AnOkayDM
Smash Champion
I wouldn't call Joker a "who." I've never played a Persona game and I immediately knew who it was.
![[Maple]](/data/avatars/l/410/410915.jpg?1575327283){kind=avatar}
[Maple]
Smash Journeyman
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Honestly I learned one thing. There is not a single rule. Speculation is useless at this point. Everyone can be here third or first party. Yes Reggie talked about "unexpected" but he is a guys who makes marketing. Of course he will not come and say "oh you know all the DLC are going to suck so you better not be hype".
Everything is unexpected cause there is no rules. Remember after Ridley and K Rool everyone expected popular newcomers like Isaac and we got Incineroar and Isabelle. So now after Joker its useless to say that the DLC are all going to be third party.
The "leakers" don't know anything about DLC
Right now I'm tired of speculation. Its useless and unproductive.
Everything is unexpected cause there is no rules. Remember after Ridley and K Rool everyone expected popular newcomers like Isaac and we got Incineroar and Isabelle. So now after Joker its useless to say that the DLC are all going to be third party.
The "leakers" don't know anything about DLC
Right now I'm tired of speculation. Its useless and unproductive.
The Anigriffin
Smash Lord
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I'm liking where this is headed.
OptimisticStrifer
Smash Champion
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Datboigeno
Smash Lord
That’s pretty much how I felt too. I know a so-so amount about SMT/Persona because a group of people I know are big fans but I’ve never played. I just felt pretty neutral about it. It wasn’t an SE deconfirm for Geno, but it also wasn’t a character I was actually into that I wanted like Banjo-Kazooie. That would’ve been much more hype for me. I’m more happy for people who are happy. I’m questioning whether I’m even going to buy Joker’s pack at all if I’m so meh about it.
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Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
But you're also a 25 year old gamer who hangs out on Smashboards where characters no matter how obscure are put through the wringer in speculation. That said, few characters are totally off the radar for people who come here regularly. Grab a random person on the street and they're not going to have a clue a vast majority of the time.
Super Smash Bros Ultimate! Now with Joker!
"Wait... From Batman?"
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OptimisticStrifer
Smash Champion
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Let me cast out my predictions for fighter pass.... 1 ;3
Joker
Geno
Banjo
Lloyd
Crash/Doom Guy/ Indie Rep (sans, Quote, Shantae, Reimu Hakurei etc)
Joker
Geno
Banjo
Lloyd
Crash/Doom Guy/ Indie Rep (sans, Quote, Shantae, Reimu Hakurei etc)
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EarlTamm
Smash Hero
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Not a bad list. I would love to see any of the character's in that last spot(though when it comes to indies, I mostly want Shantae).
Loliko YnT
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This.
Iconic mean that even people who don't play much video game know the character. Even if It's just the "Final Fantasy Guy" , they know the character.
Joker is still a recent character in the grand scheme of things , he's popular , not iconic.
Is he a good character? For me , I haven't played Persona 5 , but he look pretty cool.
And yeah , it doesn't help that Joker share his name with one of the most famous Batman villain lol
Also , fun story , my best Friend , even tho she isn't too much into gaming , knew Geno when I first talked about him to her ! Even if she only knew he was "the puppet with a blue cape" , It's still impressive to see how far Geno has come in term of popularity!
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domriver
Smash Lord
First off nicely put
Fatmanonice
. I couldn't agree more. If anything this reveal only made me more excited for Geno bein included in this DLC pack.Thoughts on the Game Awards:
It was okay. When Reggie and Stone got on the platform together I was seriously thinking THIS IT IT THIS IS WHERE THEY ANNOUNCE BANJO KAZOOIE FOR SMASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH and nothing! lol xD I thought the music performace for Red Dawn was very well done. Maybe its just me but I couldn't stand those youtube people I just couldn't. For me not one reveal astounded me. Mortal Kombat ehhhhh 11 lol
I was mehh the majority of the time. Now on to Smash. lol First off omg Joker from Persona? - Now i have not played Persona but i did recognize the character. I for one am so glad that no one saw this coming. DLC is being very secret and i like it. I suppose now unless we see a legit pic we dont believe in it now is the how i see it.
Im "meh" for Joker not disappointed and not overly happy about it. Im Neutral im sure Joker will bring yet another unique way to fight in Smash. I played the game till 2:30am im at work now -.- lol. Anyone else finding certain challenges in world of light quite frustrating or IMPOSSIBLE to beat? xD
for example ( its not a spoiler)
the one im stuck in Lemmy Koopa + Constant High Winds and CANT SWIM. LOL he just throws me once and its over. LOL
Datboigeno
Smash Lord
You summed up a lot of what I was thinking perfectly. Joker and Persona in general are popular and the reveal got a huge response but as anyone can see there are just as many people here and elsewhere saying they don’t know anything about the character or series. It’s still pretty niche. This is definitely not a Sephiroth tier announcement in terms of mainstream recognition.
Also just because Joker was an out of nowhere choice doesn’t mean Sora and DQ’s rights issues have changed in the slightest. They could still happen but they’re just way more complicated situations than Joker. Geno is still the “literal who” for many people that he was before last night so him being announced would still be unexpected on the level of what Reggie was hinting at.
Mix in with this the insider info we have from
PolarPanda
of him being discussed at NoA, other leakers saying he kept being mentioned (Vergeben’s source’s opinions be damned), and add in what we’ve already seen on Nintendo’s part on Twitter, the SNES Classic, and now HQ mobile trivia game last night of them for whatever reason officially referencing SMRPG and Geno specifically in a way they haven’t since SMRPG over 20 years ago. Let me restate that: Nintendo has been publicly and specifically highlighting a 20 year old side-character they legally do not own in very mainstream spaces. That’s a big red flag to me. I think people here should not only take what’s being shown and said to us at face value but also take advantage of the other information we have available to us when debating Geno’s chances.
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AnOkayDM
Smash Champion
Heh, you've got me there. That being said, I don't feel like we can put Geno and Joker on the same level. Joker is the protagonist of a GotY candidate from last year, and Geno remains a side character from a twenty-year-old game. I'm not here to bash Geno or dump on his chances! I just think Joker is more in the cultural zeitgeist than Geno at the moment.
EDIT: People above me make good points regarding popularity versus iconic status though. I've always thought Geno had a good chance for this game, and that hasn't changed! Just keep your heads up, everyone.
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Shado-will
Smash Journeyman
So with the inclusion of Joker, we now know that the DLC wasn't decided back in 2015/when planning for the game started. What does that mean for Geno's chances?
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HolyKnight
Smash Journeyman
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i like this list, but replace Lloyd with Velvet, or better yet, Eizen (won't happen but I can dream)
OptimisticStrifer
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It means nothing for Geno. It does make Crash and Doomguy more likely tho.
D
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This
This
And thisYou summed up a lot of what I was thinking perfectly. Joker and Persona in general are popular and the reveal got a huge response but as anyone can see there are just as many people here and elsewhere saying they don’t know anything about the character or series. It’s still pretty niche. This is definitely not a Sephiroth tier announcement in terms of mainstream recognition.
Also just because Joker was an out of nowhere choice doesn’t mean Sora and DQ’s rights issues have changed in the slightest. They could still happen but they’re just way more complicated situations than Joker. Geno is still the “literal who” for many people that he was before last night so him being announced would still be unexpected on the level of what Reggie was hinting at.
Mix in with this the insider info we have from
I think people here should not only take what’s being shown and said to us at face value but also take advantage of the other information we have available to us when debating Geno’s chances.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Irrelevant because people clearly still want him and Sakurai's interview in Nintendo Dream was shortly after the game began production. I feel the same way about Lloyd. Sakurai's words were extremely positive with both characters and Persona 5 is yet another game that Sakurai had personally spoken very highly of. Unless someone dressed in a Geno costume killed his wife/cat since 2016, I doubt his opinion of the character has changed much.
childishgamgeno
Smash Journeyman
Yikes. I disagree on like. Every level.
Hahaha yoooo I love this. Few theories:
You think that Altus will get added to the credits? I wonder if there’s any hints at that or if SEGA just covers that? If so, could this be good for Geno as just Square Enix wouldn’t cover both Bird Studio and Armor Project, etc?
Not to mention Mario Street Mix uses little to no human/named FF chraracters (no Cloud, Terra, etc)
I agree tho, Joker’s inclusion looks good for Geno’s potential.
I don’t think so. I think people like to quickly discredit him too quickly, especially in GameFAQs and everytime he’s been doubted he’s proven himself correct. However, I don’t think he knows much about DLC outside what he’s already said.
I wonder if, because of how constant this sentiment is, if this helps Geno. Lets also forget that despite how highly requested Geno is, there is still a margin of people who don’t want him. These characters seem to be the characters that make it in. Also like Fatman said, Joker is specifically targeted at a nuance audience, and so can Geno be!! Excited
OptimisticStrifer
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Yknow; we should look into OTHER games Sakurai has spoken highly of (preferably on multiple separate occasions) to see what we can piece together.
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