Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MajoraMan28]

I thought it had to do something with the Remake. Still looking, but was it shown to early? Like they wanted more time to touch it up before showing it off?

Yes. The game was announced with just the CGI sequence ready with little job done on gameplay itself. Everything was rushed to the point that a few months later the PSX Gameplay trailer actually had prerendered content to look like it was gameplay itself (looking here for the source, but I'm sure of this). This was exactly 3 years ago. It will be making the 3 year anniversary very soon, ironically. Since then, there hasn't been a single video footage of the game. We only got two screenshots last year and that was it. S-E wanted to hype up a game that was extremely early in development the same way they did with FFXV, then known as FF Versus XIII

 

[Pristine]

Gonna slightly disagree with you all here. While I do think it's possible to downsize Sephiroth's sword and Sakurai could take on that challenge, I feel like so much of his work goes into also staying true to the character. That's why he didn't want Ridley in. If you see how huge Ridley is as a stage hazard last game, THATS his true to form size. Sakurai scaled Ridley down for US, the FANS and Ridley was INCREDIBLY demanded. Sephiroth doesn't have the same demand, so it's less incentive to please fans.

Sephiroth's sword is EXTREMELY long, and we know Sakurai uses Dissidia and does THOROUGH research. I think the Advent Children picture is exaggerating JUUUUUST a bit but not by much. If you look at official FF7 and Dissida art...like...its long. But thats what makes him Sephy. You go TOO short and you have just another generic sword fighter and you risk losing the essence of Sephiroth. You keep the length, and you have a potentially broken character. I think Cloud is different cuz his sword is more wide than it is long. Plus, unless Sakurai wildly changes the playstyle which can happen, he's definitely going to be a character that can apply pressure. It's different from Belmont's reach, who have the longest reach in the game because to my knowledge, their whip doesnt go into an automatic jab combo.

I feel like Sakurai can afford to shave off at least one foot of Masamune. Wouldn't hurt his character TOO much imo.

 

[Sigran101]

It's in the offical art, m8. If that's not enough, it's also the same length in-game.

Right. And that's about how long Cloud's sword is too. It wouldn't have to reach halfway across the stage.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Gonna slightly disagree with you all here. While I do think it's possible to downsize Sephiroth's sword and Sakurai could take on that challenge, I feel like so much of his work goes into also staying true to the character. That's why he didn't want Ridley in. If you see how huge Ridley is as a stage hazard last game, THATS his true to form size. Sakurai scaled Ridley down for US, the FANS and Ridley was INCREDIBLY demanded. Sephiroth doesn't have the same demand, so it's less incentive to please fans.

Sephiroth's sword is EXTREMELY long, and we know Sakurai uses Dissidia and does THOROUGH research. I think the Advent Children picture is exaggerating JUUUUUST a bit but not by much. If you look at official FF7 and Dissida art...like...its long. But thats what makes him Sephy. You go TOO short and you have just another generic sword fighter and you risk losing the essence of Sephiroth. You keep the length, and you have a potentially broken character. I think Cloud is different cuz his sword is more wide than it is long. Plus, unless Sakurai wildly changes the playstyle which can happen, he's definitely going to be a character that can apply pressure. It's different from Belmont's reach, who have the longest reach in the game because to my knowledge, their whip doesnt go into an automatic jab combo.

Belmonts actually have a preety broken kill confirm with their whip, and it is due to its silly range.
The thing is, it's not extremely long like in Dissidia or the expanded universe. It is long, but I think to the extent of being borderline managable to balance.
Also, no, Sakurai doesn't go for Dissidia to build his characters. Have you played Cloud in that game? His moveset is different. Only his dash animation comes from that game, but everything else is 100% from the game.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Sephiroth doesn't have the same demand, so it's less incentive to please fans.

What he may lack in vocal demand(simply because people don't expect him to be in Smash), like Cloud, he makes up for in sheer popularity.

Sleeper hits and unexpected dark horse ensembles are a thing for a reason.

Sephiroth's sword is EXTREMELY long, and we know Sakurai uses Dissidia and does THOROUGH research.

He used dissidia for just a few moves.

There's nothing dictating that's all he uses, especially since he actually uses Cloud's "Let's mosey " type of character and persona that we all know and love pre-FFVII compilation and that which is finally making a return if NT (which came out after Smash 4's Cloud DLC funnily enough) is anything to go by.

Most of Cloud's stuff is from his actual original game. There's nothing suggesting that Sephiroth won't get the same delicate treatment.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Right. And that's about how long Cloud's sword is too. It wouldn't have to reach halfway across the stage.

It seems to be a bit longer from what I can see. Not only that, but it only gets longer in other square games with tetsuya nomura at the helm, stuff like dissidia, crisis core and kingdom hearts. Call it a meme all you want, but if that's the case, it's a meme embraced by his creator.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I mean, he's also holding the sword in front of him; we're not seeing the full length of the thing in this shot. Imagine Sephiroth, with that sword length, putting his all into a sword swing like any good Smash character. That's still some disgusting range.

Could be made to work, yeah, but it's still pretty damn long.

He is doing his classic stance with the sword. He doesn't hold the sword too much back. His is sword is slightly longer than Cloud's.

It seems to be a bit longer from what I can see. Not only that, but it only gets longer in other square games with tetsuya nomura at the helm, stuff like dissidia, crisis core and kingdom hearts. Call it a meme all you want, but if that's the case, it's a meme embraced by his creator.

Uhhh... Nomura didn't create the character. He made the design, but the idea behind him, from what he was supposed to look, think and his weapon of choice came from Sakaguchi and Kitase

 

[Sigran101]

The question isn't whether or not Sephiroth would work. Sakurai could make any character work. The question, if the square source is true, is whether Geno worked out or not.

 

[A.G.L.]

Lets not forget the whole reason many thought Ridley was an impossibility was because of his size. If Sephiroth’s Massamune is an issue they can find a way to make it slightly longer than Cloud’s Buster sword. If there’s a way I’m sure Sakurai will find it. That being said very exciting news for Geno fans, looks like Geno is looking like a real possibility. Definitely a battle of David vs Goliath.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

The question isn't whether or not Sephiroth would work. Sakurai could make any character work. The question, if the square source is true, is whether Geno worked out or not.

If not, I wonder what went wrong for Geno in the negotiations. Perhaps SE thinks they would get better royalities with Sephiroth.

 

[Deleted member]

The question isn't whether or not Sephiroth would work. Sakurai could make any character work. The question, if the square source is true, is whether Geno worked out or not.

I think he would, they already have the rights to him, due to the battle token and spirit, and they may have just carried over his rights from Smash 4, when he was a Mii costume

 

[AugustusB]

Lets not forget the whole reason many thought Ridley was an impossibility was because of his size. If Sephiroth’s Massamune is an issue they can find a way to make it slightly longer than Cloud’s Buster sword. If there’s a way I’m sure Sakurai will find it. That being said very exciting news for Geno fans, looks like Geno is looking like a real possibility. Definitely a battle of David vs Goliath.

It really is isn't it? IF Geno gets in I will be curious on how he looks. Will it be a full Sakurai design or will we see some Nomura inspiration added?

That just dawned on me, who officially made Geno? The design artist behind him way back when.

 

[GoeGoe]

Does Sephiroth uses it for pole vaulting?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

If not, I wonder what went wrong for Geno in the negotiations. Perhaps SE thinks they would get better royalities with Sephiroth.

It might also be that sephiroth is simply more definitively square than Geno, who has a more heavy association with nintendo, despite his ownership. I imagine square would jump at any chance to promote their cash cow franchise and rake in some dollars while they're at it.

 

[beans]

I thought it had to do something with the Remake. Still looking, but was it shown to early? Like they wanted more time to touch it up before showing it off?

While a user awnsered part of it, the problem is that when they revealed that Nomura would direct the game was when Nomura learned he would direct the game.
They just planned that way and sprung the responsabilty on him

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

If not, I wonder what went wrong for Geno in the negotiations. Perhaps SE thinks they would get better royalities with Sephiroth.

Probably thinking about who'd make the biggest splash and by result, more DLC money across the gaming community.

 

[ChoccyStar]

While a user awnsered part of it, the problem is that when they revealed that Nomura would direct the game was when Nomura learned he would direct the game.
They just planned that way and sprung the responsabilty on him

Which is fun considering the same thing happened to Sakurai with Smash4.

 

[Pristine]

Just want to play Devil's advocate and throw this out there. Anyone know why Sakurai decided to make a Geno spirit be released in the base game? Knowing SE, they love bundling their content with DLC seeing how they'll make bigger profit, so why didn't just bundle the Geno spirit alongside Geno himself? More or less seems like a consolation prize at this rate but I'd like to be proven wrong.

 

[A.G.L.]

It really is isn't it? IF Geno gets in I will be curious on how he looks. Will it be a full Sakurai design or will we see some Nomura inspiration added?

That just dawned on me, who officially made Geno? The design artist behind him way back when.

What I want to know is will George Newbern reprise his role as VA of Sephiroth. It would feel strange not hearing him voice Sephiroth. Also if it is Geno I still hope Square at least gives us One Winged Angel, its really weird we don’t have that song in the Midgar stage.

As for Geno it will be interesting to see if his revival means he will have a possible new game. Perhaps Nintendo will partner with Square and add Geno into the next Mario & Luigi RPG.

Does Sephiroth uses it for pole vaulting?

Lol, no he uses it for sneaking up on people and stabbing them in the back.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Just want to play Devil's advocate and throw this out there. Anyone know why Sakurai decided to make a Geno spirit be released in the base game? Knowing SE, they love bundling their content with DLC seeing how they'll make bigger profit, so why didn't just bundle the Geno spirit alongside Geno himself? More or less seems like a consolation prize at this rate but I'd like to be proven wrong.

it's likely they'll be making that extra cash by re-selling the geno mii costume along with whomever the square rep ends up being.

 

[Datboigeno]

Just want to play Devil's advocate and throw this out there. Anyone know why Sakurai decided to make a Geno spirit be released in the base game? Knowing SE, they love bundling their content with DLC seeing how they'll make bigger profit, so why didn't just bundle the Geno spirit alongside Geno himself? More or less seems like a consolation prize at this rate but I'd like to be proven wrong.

A useable spirit of a character packaged with an actual character seems redundant. Spirits at the end of the day are just attachable .pngs for a mode. I think it’s more telling what wasn’t in the game already: The Geno costume. If that were already in the game with the spirit i think it’d be a different story. Also we don’t even know if characters are going to come with spirits.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

it's likely they'll be making that extra cash by re-selling the geno mii costume along with whomever the square rep ends up being.

Hmm. A Geno costume coming along with Geno though..... wouldn't that be a bit too redundant if Geno does actually get picked for DLC?

 

[bardbowman]

So if this recent leak is true, then we'll very likely get one of them playable, and the other as a mii costume.

And I still think a DQ costume is a high possibility.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Hmm. A Geno costume coming along with Geno though..... wouldn't that be a bit too redundant if Geno does actually get picked for DLC?

why do we still have a chrom and K rool costume?

 

[Datboigeno]

Hmm. A Geno costume coming along with Geno though..... wouldn't that be a bit too redundant if Geno does actually get picked for DLC?

I mean we already have a Captain Falcon costume in the game don’t we?

 

[MajoraMan28]

What I want to know is will George Newbern reprise his role as VA of Sephiroth. It would feel strange not hearing him voice Sephiroth. Also if it is Geno I still hope Square at least gives us One Winged Angel, its really weird we don’t have that song in the Midgar stage.

As for Geno it will be interesting to see if his revival means he will have a possible new game. Perhaps Nintendo will partner with Square and add Geno into the next Mario & Luigi RPG.



Lol, no he uses it for sneaking up on people and stabbing them in the back.

While I do preffer Cloud's voice to be in Japanese, as weird as it sounds I actually want Seph to be voiced in English. Square tends to nail the villains' voices, even today. Heck, FFXV's most appealing character to me is Ardyn just by how classic his VA's performance was.
I want the orchestral version of OWA though. Not the OG. XD
And I think Geno's inclusion will revive him to future games. Smash is free advertising and hypes people for these characters. Heck, if it weren't for Melee, Roy would be a nobody among the FE universe. Now he is one respectable figure in Fire Emblem Heroes. I think this can be done to any character in a series that is continuing to thrive to this day.

 

[AugustusB]

Hmm. A Geno costume coming along with Geno though..... wouldn't that be a bit too redundant if Geno does actually get picked for DLC?

I mean at the end of the day, in SMRPG Geno was a doll...it wouldn't be too weird to see another doll running around. I think it would be kind of funny if it was Geno AND the Mii costume came back.

 

[Datboigeno]

What I want to know is will George Newbern reprise his role as VA of Sephiroth. It would feel strange not hearing him voice Sephiroth. Also if it is Geno I still hope Square at least gives us One Winged Angel, its really weird we don’t have that song in the Midgar stage.

As for Geno it will be interesting to see if his revival means he will have a possible new game. Perhaps Nintendo will partner with Square and add Geno into the next Mario & Luigi RPG.



Lol, no he uses it for sneaking up on people and stabbing them in the back.

Honestly if Geno is the character I’d prefer him to come with SMRPG songs rather than FF stuff.

 

[Sigran101]

I really think it's Geno at this point. Assuming the square source is true, it seems very unlikely he'd have serious negotiations and then not get added.

 

[A.G.L.]

Honestly if Geno is the character I’d prefer him to come with SMRPG songs rather than FF stuff.

I meant as a bonus give the Midgar stage one winged angel. While Geno still has his own music.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

why do we still have a chrom and K rool costume?

Well those are base game costumes and those are run by Nintendo. But as for 3rd party costumes to sell again? Ehhhhh. Even for Square that sounds inane, especially if folks have gone to all the trouble to get Geno in the game.

 

[childishgamgeno]

I feel like Sakurai can afford to shave off at least one foot of Masamune. Wouldn't hurt his character TOO much imo.

Right. And that's about how long Cloud's sword is too. It wouldn't have to reach halfway across the stage.

True, and after doing a tiny bit of research apparently Cloud's sword is about five to six feet, and Sephy's is about 6 to 8 and I'm assuming that it varies depending on the project. So given that variable, Sakurai could shoot for the lowest, being 6 or if he wants to make it definitively longer than Cloud's being 7.

Belmonts actually have a preety broken kill confirm with their whip, and it is due to its silly range.
The thing is, it's not extremely long like in Dissidia or the expanded universe. It is long, but I think to the extent of being borderline managable to balance.
Also, no, Sakurai doesn't go for Dissidia to build his characters. Have you played Cloud in that game? His moveset is different. Only his dash animation comes from that game, but everything else is 100% from the game.

I only said Sakurai referred to Dissidia for research. And that was primarily in regards to Cloud's character design. Sakurai based Cloud's design off of Dissidia artwork, as stated in the interview with him and Nomura.

I have no idea about the moveset. But if you look at it, Dissidia Cloud and SSB4 Cloud share very similar moves because they're Cloud's moves. Finishing Touch, Climhazard, The little wind shockwave move, his side B multislash move, AND the Limit Break. It's all pretty much the same.

What he just lack in demand(simply because people don't expect him to be in Smash), like Cloud, he makes up for in sheer popularity.

Sleeper hits and unexpected dark horse ensembles are a thing for a reason.

He used dissidia for just a few moves.

There's nothing dictating that's all he uses, especially since he actually uses Cloud's "Let's mosey " type of character and persona that we all know and love pre-FFVII compilation and that which is finally making a return if NT (which came out after Smash 4's Cloud DLC funnily enough) is anything to go by.

Most of Cloud's stuff is from his actual original game. There's nothing suggesting that Sephorith won't get the same delicate treatment.

I'm saying that because Sephiroth would GET such delicate treatment is what would make him more difficult to implement than, say, Geno. Yes, Sephiroth is popular, but Ridley was an incredibly high fan demanded character. Sakurai compromised and made it work due to that demand. He would have to do the same with Sephiroth, but I don't think that would be his preferred option is all I'm saying. And I don't think Sephiroth, even with his popularity, has enough sway to make Sakurai prefer him over Geno. Especially because Cloud is arguably kind of representing FF as a whole. You arguably only see one rep from a 3rd party franchise outside of echoes and I think it's that way for a reason. I don't think Sephiroth would be a better sleeper hit than Geno, but he'd probably be a hit nonetheless.

I don't think Dissidia is all he uses, but he does use it. That's a fact. Going off of using Cloud's dissidia design for Smash, if Sephiroth were to be implemented, I'm only assuming he'd do the same. Looking at the Dissidia art...thats a long freaking sword. lmao

 

[GoeGoe]

Lol, no he uses it for sneaking up on people and stabbing them in the back.

I wonder how he'll manage with such a long shadow X)

My feeling goes Slime Geno fans. I truely think sakurai won't disappoint his fans but he said it's a Nintendo pick, so.
Hey, maybe Square will have 2 DLCs, who knows.

 

[Nazyrus]

Well those are base game costumes and those are run by Nintendo. But as for 3rd party costumes to sell again? Ehhhhh. Even for Square that sounds inane, especially if folks have gone to all the trouble to get Geno in the game.

yeah the 3rd party mii costumes situation is really interesting… I wonder what's gonna happen to them. I can most definitely see Lloyd being one of the DLC (Namco's literal FF franchise lol and them working on Smash ultimate yet having to put a namco newcomer in… + the Tales of anniversary is just a week after smash releases), and Geno is also missing of course. I dont know about heihachi or whichever other 3rd party mii costume i can't remember now, but at least those 2 are an interesting case i really look forward to see what will happen to.

 

[A.G.L.]

What I do find odd in all this is, assuming it is Geno. Why put Mallow and Geno as Spirits, not just regular Spirits, but top tier Spirits. Especially because the Geno model will be updated and not look like how he does right now. It would make more sense for Sephiroth to be a Spirit given that Cloud is in the game. This may be a hint that Sephiroth not Geno is the 2nd Square Rep. Though that’s just a theory.

As for characters not coming with Spirits I highly doubt this. We already saw with the Let’s Go Pikachu and Evee, that Spirits can be added later on. I highly doubt the DLC characters will not come with Spirits due to the recent confirmation that Spirits can be added after the games release.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I'm saying that because Sephiroth would GET such delicate treatment is what would make him more difficult to implement

See, the problem is that you're assuming that Sakurai takes more from Dissidia than from Final Fantasy VII. Which he clearly didn't with Cloud, so why assume that Sephiroth would be different?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I really think it's Geno at this point. Assuming the square source is true, it seems very unlikely he'd have serious negotiations and then not get added.

the same could be said of sephiroth

 

[Datboigeno]

Something I’m now wondering: When exactly did these negotiations/discussions occur? Because it might make sense of certain things. For example if this happened awhile ago it’d explain the 22nd anniversary Team Geno or Mallow tweet from NoA. It could’ve been them trying inject Geno into the public consciousness again. Also there was a weird thing where someone asked a KH director of Sora was in Smash, he said yes, and then quickly deleted it. Maybe that was an example of people trying to rebel against SE and get some traction for Sora?

 

[owjies]

Whether Geno makes it in or not, one of the cool things about this speculation cycle is that a number of the age-old narratives about Geno being an impossibility have been debunked. If this news turns out to be true, Geno's inclusion (or near inclusion) will result from negotiations between Nintendo and Square and not because of supposed "Sakurai bias".

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

And I don't think Sephiroth, even with his popularity, has enough sway to make Sakurai prefer him over Geno.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking. Out of whatever list, Sakurai chose 5 characters from, we have to remember, Nintendo chose the initial list. Hence why business comes into play here more so than usual.