Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

Again, I must reiterate why people thinking it's Jonesy are panicking over nothing. The thing about 3rd party characters in the context of Smash Bros have always had at least 5 years of existence under their belts. Bayonetta as a contemporary 3rd party pick is owned by Sega, and her first game came out in 2009. Her Wii U exclusive sequel at the time put her at the bare minimum of 5 years old, and Sega already had content in Smash 4 at the time, so negotiations weren't so much of a hassle. Same is true for Joker and Persona content since both are owned by Sega as well thanks to Sega owning Atlus. Steve was 6 years old at the time of the Smash ballot, and Microsoft had already owned Minecraft for years by that point. It took 5 years to see the light of day, so it's very unlikely that a character like Jonesy will be shown off tonight with the envelope considering the game he comes from is at most 3 years old.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Again, I must reiterate why people thinking it's Jonesy are panicking over nothing. The thing about 3rd party characters in the context of Smash Bros have always had at least 5 years of existence under their belts. Bayonetta as a contemporary 3rd party pick is owned by Sega, and her first game came out in 2009. Her Wii U exclusive sequel at the time put her at the bare minimum of 5 years old, and Sega already had content in Smash 4 at the time, so negotiations weren't so much of a hassle. Same is true for Joker and Persona content since both are owned by Sega as well thanks to Sega owning Atlus. Steve was 6 years old at the time of the Smash ballot, and Microsoft had already owned Minecraft for years by that point. It took 5 years to see the light of day, so it's very unlikely that a character like Jonesy will be shown off tonight with the envelope considering the game he comes from is at most 3 years old.

Actually, Microsoft only owned Mojang and Minecraft for less than a year by the Smash Ballot.

And they’re very lenient with the Minecraft IP.

 

[Inawordyes]

"There's not going to be a reveal at the Game Awards."
"No, there's not going to be a reveal at the Game Awards."
"Nintendo isn't going to reveal a fighter at the Game Awards."
"Well, my theorycraft worked out!"

Fatman theorycrafting a character to be revealed before the end of December for XYZ reasons (which turned out to be true) and not personally believing it would be at TGAs for XYZ reasons (which turned out to be false) are not mutually exclusive thoughts, and framing his post the way you are makes it sound like Fatman is trying to claim that his theorycrafting was about TGAs specifically, and not a reveal in general, when the latter is exactly what he says in said quoted post.

Just as a note, because we do not need the standard drive-by potshots at Fatman right now just because people are watching this thread due to the announcement (welcome friends!)

 

[YsDisciple]

Ah wait a minute. Ok, here's a possible way Geno could be revealed as CP 8. It's been stated a few days ago by Geoff himself that during TGA there will be around 10 to 15 BRAND NEW games revealed. What if among those games, there is in fact a SMRPG sequel or remake? If so, then the reveal of said game could serve as an easy pivot to revealing Geno as the next DLC fighter. Compliments to the chef.

Also, these days I've been thinking how awesome it would be to play an updated Super Mario Kart (yes, I mean the original, OG SNES one) with new tracks, new racers, including Geno, Mallow, Booster, and other memorable SMRPG characters. Just picture it; Geno racing through the SNES Donut Plains course?

 

[CopperKoopa]

Apparently theres some e-shop sales for the awards now

Starting at 4 PM PT, head to the Nintendo eShop to celebrate #TheGameAwards with deals on great #NintendoSwitch games like #FireEmblem: Three Houses, Raji: An Ancient Epic, and more! pic.twitter.com/3OiEsR9Hxn

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) December 10, 2020

All according to keikaku

 

[Fatmanonice]

"There's not going to be a reveal at the Game Awards."
"No, there's not going to be a reveal at the Game Awards."
"Nintendo isn't going to reveal a fighter at the Game Awards."
"Well, my theorycraft worked out!"

Yeah, I'm genuinely surprised it's at the Game Awards but I've been saying another reveal by the end of the year since mid October and have pointed out things that ultimately wound up being significant indicators like the event reschedules, the firmware update, the spirits being re-added without new spirits, etc. Anymore sour grapes you'd like to share with the class?

 

[Datboigeno]

I think it’s funny that people are saying it can’t be Geno because he’s not mainstream enough when Joker was the last VGA reveal. Persona is popular but not that mainstream and is pretty niche when compared to something like uhhh idk the Mario series? Like really would it be that out there on the VGAs coinciding with a big Mario anniversary to be a Banjo tier fan favorite and long awaited Mario character? Like it’s wild to me that people are outright forgetting this and just assuming it’s going to be a Fortnite character or whatever. It really could be anyone buuuuut:

1. Insiders teasing Geno this summer
2. Cacomallow still hasn’t been deconfirmed
3. Mario anniversary announcements keep dropping
4. The weird GameStop video that made it sound like Geno was in

And to get even more tinfoil:
2 Game Awards ago a question on a Nintendo sponsored HQ Trivia game was specifically about Geno.

Yeah the Mushroom tournament may have been a big coincidence but come on a fan favorite Mario character announcement at the Game Awards isn’t that big of a stretch at all lol

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So when was Joker revealed at VGAs 2018? Was it at the end or somewhere in the middle?

 

[Droodle]

"Geno wouldn't be big enough for the Game Awards."

Going to go ahead and be "that guy" and just say that Joker barely made top 25 lists before he was added and there's a strong possibility that Byleth was supposed to be at the VGAs last year. I don't think Nintendo's standards for the VGAs as stringent as people think they are. Geoff has also made it pretty apparent that he was thrilled to do another character no matter who they are so he's not particularly picky either.

I think it could be Geno, but this is a poor argument that it could be him.

TGA audience, heck even most of Smash's audience, does not participate in fan polls. Most people who play the game and buy the DLC don't look up sourcegaming, or even spend their time here speculating; because frankly 80% of Smash's audience is probably pretty casual and care not about anything except the newest popular titles. It goes a long way to show that in a game that sells 20 million, a poll with 5000 votes is considered a good sample size; even though it's prone to a lot of biases, such as ease of recall and availability bias (something that can be easily recalled makes it look more probable). That's the reason why certain characters votes in polls skyrocket if there are decent rumors surrounding them (for example, 4 out of the 5 top 5 in Sourcegaming's poll all had decent rumors backing them up, and all of them featured 2-3x the increase compared to their results from last year). And in fan polls, let's be honest a lot of people vote for characters that they want AND they think are likely.

Joker barely had any rumors surrounding his possible inclusion in Smash, and considering that P5 was playstation exclusive; most people barely gave him the time of day when discussing his chances. Yet, he was definitely among the most well received characters; especially considering the reaction of the game awards audience. Byleth had most of the rumors surrounding him dismissed, considering the huge controversy FE has within the community; not to mention most FE fans didn't really think they'd dip into an FE character either.

That said, what both of them did have was the fact that their games are pretty new, popular, and familiar to the audience that watches the game awards. Geno isn't a new, popular, trending character; he's popular within the Smash audience, but let's be honest he's objectively far more obscure compared to the likes of Byleth and Joker when they would've gotten in.

He could still happen though, as we don't really have any specific long lasting pattern with TGA announcements; though I wouldn't say it's particularly likely.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Does anyone think there is a possibility that Waluigi could be the next character revealed?

 

[Deleted member]

I think it’s funny that people are saying it can’t be Geno because he’s mainstream enough when Joker was the last VGA reveal. Persona is popular but not that mainstream and is pretty niche when compared to something like uhhh idk the Mario series? Like really would it be that out there on the VGAs coinciding with a big Mario anniversary to be a Banjo tier fan favorite and long awaited Mario character? Like it’s wild to me that people are outright forgetting this and just assuming it’s going to be a Fortnite character or whatever. It really could be anyone buuuuut:

1. Insiders teasing Geno this summer
2. Cacomallow still hasn’t been deconfirmed
3. Mario anniversary announcements keep dropping
4. The weird GameStop video that made it sound like Geno was in

And to get even more tinfoil:
2 Game Awards ago a question on a Nintendo sponsored HQ Trivia game was specifically about Geno.

Yeah the Mushroom tournament may have been a big coincidence but come on a fan favorite Mario character announcement at the Game Awards isn’t that big of a stretch at all lol

Yeah I'm really not sure where this idea of "it's the game awards so it has to be some kind of earthshattering reveal" came from. Before Joker was announced people thought Ryu Hayabusa was gonna be the first DLC shown at the 2018 Game Awards and he's arguably even more of a nobody than a Persona protag.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

my reasons to why it MIGHT be geno t

1. 25th smrpg anniversary next year
2. beware of mushrooms tourney
3. mario 35th cup
4. steves trailer before his reveal had mario, peach and CLOUD of all people in it a square enix character

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

A character getting revealed when I'm probably going to be unable to watch it live?

Alrighty, fair enough.

Guess my luck finally ran out after the last 4 reveals. Does anyone have a rough time frame for when it's going to happen? I might be able to slip away for 5 or so minutes to see it.

Also damn seeing Serenade be optimistic about tonight is doing my heart good lol

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So when was Joker revealed at VGAs 2018? Was it at the end or somewhere in the middle?

Just before the GOTY announcement, so at the end.

 

[PatPrime]

I've been away for awhile and been most lurking thanks to school finals and such but I just wanted to say that while I'm also worried that Jonesy could get in as a fighter, if we are to believe that Steve and FIghter 8 were meant to be revealed in the same e3 presentation, then I highly doubt Jonesy would be the next character. Also, the Joker reveal was more of a last minute decision but the Game Awards audience was already well aware of Persona from the year prior. It could be anyone really. Hoping for Doomguy or Crash personally but Geno could very well be shown off, too.

Also, play Hades. Is good game.

 

[Deleted member]

Also while we're still on the subject, go back and force yourself to watch last year's Game Awards and tell me that it's gotta be showstopper after showstopper. It sucked monkey nuts, man. Nintendo revealed No More Heroes 3 and Bravely Default 3 2, cult games with cult following that the average dudebro gamer (who I'm not even sure exists anymore) is gonna turn his nose up at.

This is a symptom of this community selling itself short again, I swear. Literally any character can show up tonight and it's gonna get a standing ovation because this is ****ing Smash Brothers.

 

[Joshdabozz]

I’d be 100% on board with this, were it not for the simple fact that a tournament named “Beware of Mushrooms” in Japan starts tomorrow.

That being said, Doom Guy showing up with a Cacodemon hat costume soft confirms Geno, so that’s alright with me too.



Doom Guy and Geno double reveal time!!!!!!!!

Wasn't there also a leak saying Doomguy and geno were going to get double revealed in a trailer months ago, before Min Min I believe, but after Byleth

Or was it after Min Min, idfk anymore, 2020 is a ****show, I mean we have Mario Lopez Playing Colonel Sanders in a movie about Seduction for goodness sake.

I think it’s funny that people are saying it can’t be Geno because he’s not mainstream enough when Joker was the last VGA reveal. Persona is popular but not that mainstream and is pretty niche when compared to something like uhhh idk the Mario series? Like really would it be that out there on the VGAs coinciding with a big Mario anniversary to be a Banjo tier fan favorite and long awaited Mario character? Like it’s wild to me that people are outright forgetting this and just assuming it’s going to be a Fortnite character or whatever. It really could be anyone buuuuut:

1. Insiders teasing Geno this summer
2. Cacomallow still hasn’t been deconfirmed
3. Mario anniversary announcements keep dropping
4. The weird GameStop video that made it sound like Geno was in

And to get even more tinfoil:
2 Game Awards ago a question on a Nintendo sponsored HQ Trivia game was specifically about Geno.

Yeah the Mushroom tournament may have been a big coincidence but come on a fan favorite Mario character announcement at the Game Awards isn’t that big of a stretch at all lol

I agree

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So is 4:00 PM PT 6:00 PM Central Time?

 

[Joshdabozz]

Also people are getting worked up about Jonsey for no reason, there is really no evidence for him in smash at all.. give me some evidence now or else its not gonna happen

 

[Deleted member]

Mario Lopez Playing Colonel Sanders in a movie about Seduction for goodness sake.

Wait... That's real? I thought it was a meme!

Also people are getting worked up about Jonsey for no reason, there is really no evidence for him in smash at all.. give me some evidence now or else its not gonna happen

uhhhh mainstream character who I don't like virtually guaranteed.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Also people are getting worked up about Jonsey for no reason, there is really no evidence for him in smash at all.. give me some evidence now or else its not gonna happen

Yeah, I think people are over-analyzing the "no comment" from Donald Mustard when asked about Fortnite in Smash. Saying "no comment" doesn't automatically mean it's a fighter. It could also get mii costumes or spirit events. Or nothing at all.....

 

[pinshadow]

Yeah, I'm genuinely surprised it's at the Game Awards but I've been saying another reveal by the end of the year since mid October and have pointed out things that ultimately wound up being significant indicators like the event reschedules, the firmware update, the spirits being re-added without new spirits, etc. Anymore sour grapes you'd like to share with the class?

Or those were just for other things? We don't even know if the character is out this month or not.

Anyway, Game Awards reveal. On one hand, nice to be right that Nintendo would have something here, nice to presumably be right on no December presentation.

On the other hand, who the hell is it? I originally didn't want them to reveal it at the Game Awards because it kinda implied "not Geno" and him not being 8 (or the first-half in general) is a little worrisome to say the least. But then, I thought about it some more.

• Whoever is here WAS NOT going to be revealed there originally. We all know the schedule has been pushed back several months, so whoever is here was either the 2nd E3 reveal, or meant to be revealed in a September-ish direct.
• People will argue Joker being sent means that it doesn't need to be a HUGE character, which is true, but people forget WHY Joker was the one sent. His reveal was a very last minute thing according to Geoff, he wanted to do something because the event shared a release date with Ultimate and apparently it only got setup a week or two before the show with him as the only person knowing. They just sent Joker because well, he was first in the Pass. Like Fatman has said, Nintendo doesn't need Game Awards, Game Awards needs Nintendo, they'll send whoever they have coming out next, even if it's a Goomba.

As for who it actually is? I'm still KINDA shaky on Geno being there regardless. I still think it's too soon for Crash though so I'll say it's either the Doll or a Capcom rep between Dante/Monster Hunter.

 

[Megadoomer]

So when was Joker revealed at VGAs 2018? Was it at the end or somewhere in the middle?

I think it was in the last half hour - it might have been right before the Game of the Year announcement, but it was definitely towards the end. It starts at 4 pm Central/7 pm Eastern, and I think it goes for about three hours, though it could be a bit shorter or longer than that.

 

[Joshdabozz]

So is 4:00 PM PT 6:00 PM Central Time?

7:00 Pm EST
6:00 Pm Central
5:00 Pm Mountain
12:00 am BST
2:00 Pm Hawaii-Aleutian
9:00 AM Japan time
3:00 Pm Alaska time
and finally 7:00 Pm in Canada

 

[TooManyToastahs]

I’m gonna be a bit busy today before and even during the VGA’s, so I won’t have time to stop in and hang out with the thread besides right now. I hope tonight’s our night and Geno comes home, fingers crossed!!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

7:00 Pm EST
6:00 Pm Central
5:00 Pm Mountain
12:00 am BST
2:00 Pm Hawaii-Aleutian
9:00 AM Japan time
3:00 Pm Alaska time
and finally 7:00 Pm in Canada

Thanks. I thought it was 6:00 PM for my timezone.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 294827
I’m gonna be a bit busy today before and even during the VGA’s, so I won’t have time to stop in and hang out with the thread besides right now. I hope tonight’s our night and Geno comes home, fingers crossed!!

Once again I am going to hold Y until I nearly press the button out of the back of the controller.

 

[Skull Leader]

I can see a double reveal pairing Geno up with someone else to make it "big enough" for TGAs.

Doom Guy + Geno would fit timeline wise with Cacomallow leak
Crash + Geno would honestly cover ALL of the bases for logical marketing/exposure/excitement
Dante + Geno could be really clever, with Dante providing the "Exor" sword for Geno to make his entrance
Ryu + Geno would just feel out of place unless it was 2 separate reveals done at the same event instead of one trailer for 2 reveals

I don't think its outside possibility to see a reveal + release for character 1 tonight and then a character 2 reveal with a "coming spring 2021" tag.

 

[Datboigeno]

I think it could be Geno, but this is a poor argument that it could be him.

TGA audience, heck even most of Smash's audience, does not participate in fan polls. Most people who play the game and buy the DLC don't look up sourcegaming, or even spend their time here speculating; because frankly 80% of Smash's audience is probably pretty casual and care not about anything except the newest popular titles. It goes a long way to show that in a game that sells 20 million, a poll with 5000 votes is considered a good sample size; even though it's prone to a lot of biases, such as ease of recall and availability bias (something that can be easily recalled makes it look more probable). That's the reason why certain characters votes in polls skyrocket if there are decent rumors surrounding them (for example, 4 out of the 5 top 5 in Sourcegaming's poll all had decent rumors backing them up, and all of them featured 2-3x the increase compared to their results from last year). And in fan polls, let's be honest a lot of people vote for characters that they want AND they think are likely.

Joker barely had any rumors surrounding his possible inclusion in Smash, and considering that P5 was playstation exclusive; most people barely gave him the time of day when discussing his chances. Yet, he was definitely among the most well received characters; especially considering the reaction of the game awards audience. Byleth had most of the rumors surrounding him dismissed, considering the huge controversy FE has within the community; not to mention most FE fans didn't really think they'd dip into an FE character either.

That said, what both of them did have was the fact that their games are pretty new, popular, and familiar to the audience that watches the game awards. Geno isn't a new, popular, trending character; he's popular within the Smash audience, but let's be honest he's objectively far more obscure compared to the likes of Byleth and Joker when they would've gotten in.

He could still happen though, as we don't really have any specific long lasting pattern with TGA announcements; though I wouldn't say it's particularly likely.

Sorry man but he’s objectively a popular character. If you’re throwing out poll results or popularity within the community then that’s just moving goalposts. The only thing he doesn’t have on his side is recency bias. He’s an older character who hasn’t been in a game since the late 90s so inherently isn’t going to be brought up as often as a Fire Emblem protag from a year old game. But that didn’t stop Ridley or Banjo from being major announcements in the past. Also, Mario Anniversary. I just don’t see the point in general of jumping through hoops to discount Geno’s popularity just because he isn’t the bright shiny “relevant” character.

 

[drewber2635]

I'm thinking its Geno's time. Sure, I could be wrong (and if I am its no biggie) but I still think its SUPER suspicious that the Smash event following the Game Awards the next day was titled "Beware the Mushrooms" which to me is a direct reference to Beware the Forest Mushrooms. And I'm in the boat that think Geno isn't too small to be revealed at the Game Awards. Everyone in the Smash community knows who he is and even a lot of casuals have at least heard of him at this point. I also believe that the Cacomallow leak is real as its still hasn't been disconfirmed

 

[TTF]

Also people are getting worked up about Jonsey for no reason, there is really no evidence for him in smash at all.. give me some evidence now or else its not gonna happen

This has been the only info regarding Fortnite in Smash https://screenrant.com/fortnite-smash-bros-crossover-possible/ still it doesn't mean much exactly about a character reveal, Suda51 had the same 'No comment' answer about No More Heroes in Smash and now Travis became a Mii costume.

 

[Otoad64]

it could be something uninstall-worthy like Jonesy but hopefully not.

who else is uninstall worthy?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If the journey ends tonight what will be your responses? I hope you record your reaction to Geno's reveal Fatmanonice because I would love to see your reaction. Do you plan on recording your VGAs reaction just in case it's our boy?

 

[Paraspikey]

who else is uninstall worthy?

Cranky Kong

 

[Deleted member]

Remember how nicely choreographed the Joker reveal was, what with the lights going out and the audience legitimately being in the ****ing dark about what was going on, and then thematically properly Joker steals a Smash invitation?

I hope they recreate that magic with a giant sword falling through Geoff's house. Kino as ****.

 

[CannonStreak]

This has been the only info regarding Fortnite in Smash https://screenrant.com/fortnite-smash-bros-crossover-possible/ still it doesn't mean much exactly about a character reveal, Suda51 had the same 'No comment' answer about No More Heroes in Smash and now Travis became a Mii costume.

I am thinking Fortnite will have content, just not a playable character.

 

[Paraster]

Also while we're still on the subject, go back and force yourself to watch last year's Game Awards and tell me that it's gotta be showstopper after showstopper. It sucked monkey nuts, man. Nintendo revealed No More Heroes 3 and Bravely Default 3 2, cult games with cult following that the average dudebro gamer (who I'm not even sure exists anymore) is gonna turn his nose up at.

This is a symptom of this community selling itself short again, I swear. Literally any character can show up tonight and it's gonna get a standing ovation because this is ****ing Smash Brothers.

No More Heroes 3 wasn't even revealed there; it showed up at E3 earlier that year. The Game Awards thing was basically just a story trailer.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Remember how nicely choreographed the Joker reveal was, what with the lights going out and the audience legitimately being in the ****ing dark about what was going on, and then thematically properly Joker steals a Smash invitation?

I hope they recreate that magic with a giant sword falling through Geoff's house. Kino as ****.

I remember the lights going out and thinking “SANS?!” purely because of the joke in Undertale’s Switch announcement.

 

[Fatmanonice]

"You said there would be no reveal at the VGAs."

This is also the shortest notice on a Smash reveal ever by a considerable amount. Arguably not even half a day. At least 24 hours notice is the standard, this is looking to be as little as 10.

Onto other thoughts:

-Don't think it's DOOM Guy or Jonesy. The event is already stuffed with Fortnite and DOOM announcements. Looking at Smash history, Smash announcements almost never tie into game announcements unless the game is literally announced in the same presentation like in the case of Isabelle and New Horizons and arguably Cloud and the string of 3DS games he cameoed in.

-I also really doubt two Western characters back to back, especially now that Microsoft owns Bethesda.

-Square usually has a decent presense at these things. Given they've already done updates on Bravely Default 2 and TWEWY 2, it begs the question what they have in mind for tonight.

 

[Joshdabozz]

"You said there would be no reveal at the VGAs."

This is also the shortest notice on a Smash reveal ever by a considerable amount. Arguably not even half a day. At least 24 hours notice is the standard, this is looking to be as little as 10.

Onto other thoughts:

-Don't think it's DOOM Guy or Jonesy. The event is already stuffed with Fortnite and DOOM announcements. Looking at Smash history, Smash announcements almost never tie into game announcements unless the game is literally announced in the same presentation like in the case of Isabelle and New Horizons and arguably Cloud and the string of 3DS games he cameoed in.

-I also really doubt two Western characters back to back, especially now that Microsoft owns Bethesda.

-Square usually has a decent presense at these things. Given they've already done updates on Bravely Default 2 and TWEWY 2, it begs the question what they have in mind for tonight.

This being a 10-hour notice is interesting. We have known that Sakurai did not want to reveal Joker at the Game awards 2018 originally and had no plan, I believe there was an article saying that Joker's trailer was made in like a week or something. I wonder how long ago this new trailer was made.