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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Theguy123

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,265
It's a weird situation.

"He's been in insider circles since 2018."

That's good.

"But he's the only purely Koei Tecmo content that's ever come up."

That's bad...

"But several people were slapped with warnings for openly talking about him."

That's good.

"But there's an ongoing debate if Ryu was actually just a cover up for Byleth."

That's bad...

"But a lot of stuff from 2018 is now coming to fruition like Pikmin 3 Deluxe, Mario 3D World Deluxe, and Minecraft in Smash."

That's good.

"But one of my guys told me not to expect him or Travis."

That's bad...

"But Koei Tecmo has now helped make several Zelda and Fire Emblem games."

That's good.

"But Koei Tecmo said they had no immediate plans for Ninja Gaiden for the foreseeable future earlier this year."


That's bad...

"But a Ninja Gaiden Trilogy was leaked for Switch last month."

That's good.

"But it's not due out until next March."

...

Can I go home now?
is it possible that ryu makes it in as a deluxe mii costume. With Verg saying koei tecmo has had talks with Nintendo is it just possible he’s a deluxe mii costume. That would explain the weird situation I guess.
 

Fatmanonice

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Warning Huge post ahead.

Since the topic is “old rumors that could possibly turn out being true”, is it possible we could get a rundown of what ****bi heard in 2018 in regards to Geno? I remember hearing something along the lines of “watercooler talk”, but I don’t know much beyond that and obviously it’s impossible to get clarification from them now. I’m curious how strong and prevalant these rumors were.
Fatmanonice Fatmanonice

Also, I swear i’m not trying to doom and gloom, but I also want to know what was up with those pre-VGA Sephiroth rumors. Obviously Geno’s had way more steam since then but i’d honestly just like to know more about these old leaks, why they happened, and what they might mean for the future.

and that doesn’t just apply to Square characters either. I am genuinuly starting to wonder if, with Hitagi’s insistence on Steve, if Katalina from Granblue Fantasy might be on the table again. Yea, I heard that collective “ugh” from a mile away. Are we still sure that Hitagi’s leak was 100% for Granblue fighting game and NOT smash?
Here is a post from December 2018 where I explain the situation:


And here is one from the summer of 2019:


Regarding the Granblue stuff, given how indies have been treated, I wouldn't worry about it.

btw Byleth is another character that was known by leakers far in advance. Obviously not as long as Steve, but a fair bit over a year before. Maybe a month or so before the game came out I and others had heard about them.

If I'm remembering correctly, it wasn't specifically Byleth that was out there. I was told "maybe Edelgard" and others heard that there was going to be a Three Houses character in the fighter pass. Looking through old discord messages I had Byleth's name in December of 2018. Thing is that nobody wants to be the guy to put info out there and then get burned if it doesn't come to fruition. So at least for as long as I was involved in the scene, nobody was confident enough to come right out and say it.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make right now is that it's a possibility that some of the characters mentioned in leaks early on that didn't come to fruition right away, could still be a possibility. Byleth wasn't held for as long as Steve, but who knows. It could be something people speculating to keep in mind!
Okay, THIS is fascinating because this is the first time I've heard of Byleth being heard this far back and lines up with several people in my circle hearing about Fire Emblem Three Houses stuff last October but discarding it because they personally didn't believe it.


or we just get reprints of old ones
Yeah. I do think we're going to get some "Min Min" like waves, especially since we still have a whopping 18 Smash 4 character Amiibos that haven't been reprinted yet for Ultimate for unknown reasons.

Fatmanonice Fatmanonice Is there any validity to revisiting the Sol Badguy / Nightmare rumors from awhile back as well?

There's a chance we could get something like:

Plant
Joker/Hero/Banjo/Terry/Byleth
Min Min/Steve/Geno/Lloyd/Hayabusa/Dante
Sol/Nightmare/Crash/Chief

And if Hayabusa is a costume like Travis, replace him with Waluigi and move one of the non-Chief bonus characters into his slot in FP2. That would be a pretty insane line-up, ngl
The Sol Badguy stuff came up last summer and, since then, Guilty Gear has come to Switch and we did get both a River City Ransom Collection and a spirit event celebrating it. Arc Systems is so far only one of three third parties (the others being Capcom and Square) to get special spirit events so I feel like more Arc Systems content is coming, even if it's just a costume.

So don't know if I would go as far as to call myself a supporter but following the Geno news has always been interesting.

If you don't know me I ran the smash Icons thread back in the days of 2018 and made over 100 myself.

With that out of the way, I STRONGLY think CacoMallow is real and I have a few questions for Fatmanonice Fatmanonice concerning some stuff I've dug up over the years.

1. Does the Ubisoft Support mean anything for Rayman?

I ask this as back in Smash 4 all three main characters of the Rayman series got new 3D models. From my background in 3D modeling I discovered from the looks of things at least the Rayman model provided by Ubisoft was modeled in a way that it could be rigged. Does this mean anything?

2. I've been lurking a bit and have noticed you and others talk more about Master Cheif than DoomGuy. Is there a reason for this despite CacoMallow or no?

3. What, if anything have you or others heard about Waluigi is this a serious pick? If so is there any info on what would be drawn on for a moveset other than the various Sports and party games he's been in?

That's all, I'm not a poster on here anymore for reasons but I would love to hear your thoughts.

Good luck to you all.
Okay, the big one...

1. Ubisoft has never come up in a serious capacity in my almost two years doing. I know this bums a lot of people out but that's just how it's been. I'm also of the mind that Ubisoft getting spirits and Mii costumes before a character is bad news bears too. If Ubisoft is getting anything substantial, it's something that has evaded literally everyone.

2. There is and I've honestly been warning Doom Guy fans about it since last November. Doom Guy has never come up in a serious capacity. Cacomallow brought him up as a possibility but the people in my circle quickly discounted the idea. Several people in my circle had heard Bethesda was getting content outside of Cacodemon and most of us assumed a character. One of my guys even mentioned Fallout and proof of this is here:


Every time DOOM has come up, even the developers have said that talks never went anywhere serious and I want to say there's been at least two interviews (one from earlier this year and one from last year) where some of the head developers have slapped down the idea. After with what happened with Travis after me warning people for almost two years given SUDA's comments before the 2018 VGAs and after E3 2019, I don't think DOOM Guy is happening and the evidence is significantly stronger for Chief, especially now that Microsoft literally owns Zenimax and Chief's costume was MIA yesterday.

3. Here's a full rundown I did on Waluigi last November:


TL;DR: Everyone has heard him, virtually nobody believes him but he keeps coming up. Everybody from serious insider journalists to crackheads living in the dumpster behind your local Taco Bell have heard Waluigi at some point since 2018.


Okay, I think that's everyone...
 

Genome

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You know, part of me wishes that Terra Branford could have been the '8th Square' in the 'Seven Squares Leak.' Would her inclusion in Smash completely kill off Geno's chances? Probably. Would it be worth it for a new remix of Dancing Mad in Smash?

....
 

YsDisciple

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Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,242
straps on tinfoil hat

Guys, this might sound crazy but, hear a fella out. There are now only four (4) slots left in the Fighters Pass Vol. 2. However, something very curious just came to my attention. From among the most requested characters, there are four of them who's franchises are celebrating their 25th Anniversary around this time, and going into next year.
  • Rayman = September 1, 2020 (I know it already passed but, there's still another Ubisoft Forward stream in the works for this year)
  • Tales of (Lloyd) = December 15, 2020
  • Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (Geno) = March 9, 2021 (not really a franchise, but a classic title that will be celebrating it's 25th anniversary)
  • Crash Bandicoot = September 9, 2021 (news for a potential Switch version of Crash 4 could come around 2021)
Now, why would anniversaries matter now when they never meant much in the past in terms of Smash? Well, this time around it would be the specific anniversary (being the 25th), and how many are celebrating it (4). The usual maximum percentage to which the concept of "whole" (total, complete) is 100%. When one divides said percentage by 4, it becomes 25%. Ah, the number 25! Four IPs that together make "something" whole. What might that something be? The Fighters Pass of course!

begins to laugh maniacally

...
...

takes off tinfoil hat

Whoa... this is a disgusting reach. Don't mind this nonsense folks. Carry on. :luigimelee:
 

Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,961
You'd think that after going through all this trouble to develop complicated characters like Min Min and Steve, Sakurai would welcome a character like Geno who'd be easy to design and implement.
Sakurai: 'And here's our next fighter, Geno from SMRPG.'
Smash fanbase: 'Oh, neat. And what's his gimmick, like Joker, Min Min or Steve?'
Sakurai: 'His gimmick is that I don't need to recode the whole ******* game.'
Fanbase: 'Oh.....So will that gimmick get him banned from the tournament meta play style?'
 

Nazyrus

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,837
If Geno and Lloyd both got in, I would probably die. I played through Tales of Symphonia a few months ago and I loved every second of it. It's definitely risen to my top 10 favorite video games. Maybe even my top 5, which SMRPG is also in.
Yeah it's one of my top 3 favorite games from the Gamecube specifically, alongside Metroid Prime and Twilight Princess. I beat it with my best friend at his house (since he was the one that owned it) back when i went to high school long ago… such good memories. I was pancake boi 24/7 haha.


  • CP 8 (or 9) = Lloyd Irving; could come along with the Mii Costume. Tales of 25th Anniversary is on December 15th, 2020; could be a good date for announcement. Then again, IP anniversaries haven't coincided with Smash reveals in the past.
I actually had an epiphany about this last night, thanks to Steve's way of reveal… I know this is not geno related but since we are speculating multiple characters, I will use that as my excuse to make a case for one of many Lloyd's "possible" times of getting revealed:

TGA is on December 10th if i'm not mistaken, and the Tales Anniversary is on the 15th… what If they do something similar like Steve, where he gets announced first (in this case it would be TGA) and then highlighted at the Anniversary event? (just like steve was highlighted to be in smash near the end of minecraft live / minecon stream).
Of course, Lloyd could be anywhere in the remaining pass, this is just one of the endless possibilities of where he could be appearing, but with the anniversary coming so close after TGA (not because it's an anniverasry per say, because anniversaries mean JACK **** in smash speculation, they never were a good hint for anything and they are terrible banana peels to make people think something is actually happening and then it doesn't…) I think it's something they could highlight there if it was revealed just previously at the game awards, similar to how they did it with Steve now.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Gotta keep in mind also that they tweeted in ENGLISH about celebrating the anniversary in the upcoming months with news, back in THIS JULY, and so far… months have passed, and we have gotten NO NEWS from Tales whatsoever for its 25th Anniversary.

So far all I saw by doing some research in japanaese is a crossover of, you heard it, yet again Tales of SYMPHONIA x SYMPHOGEAR, which is some mobile garbage we don't care about lol and i think it's just japanese so that definitely won't cut it alone to celebrate a whole 25th anniversary, plus they haven't even highlighted it in their anniversary twitter even! The point of me mentoining this crossover is just to bring attention to how they keep using Symphonia for crossovers over… and over … and over again, lol.

Just what exactly is Namco doing with this franchise? Tales of Arise is delayed with no date nor new trailer, and they hype this anniversary with the promise of news that aren't even happening? …… or is this all gonna be saved for December? lol I dunno anymore… it makes no sense the way they are handling this, maybe we will indeed see it all in December, whatever they got planned, because they even tease it as "a lot" of things coming.

Funnily enough, they got that book logo and the words "tales of series" trademarked back in 2019's October, the same month where just a few days after NoA guy told me "tales news coming". I asked him for specifics in different times, but he said the same over and over again "that's all i heard, I don't know what, just that tales news are coming". And then we never got any news for the rest of that year, nor so far this year at all. Of course the news have to be for stuff coming to Nintendo, because that's the only type of Tales news he would be told to come, he is not a bamco source after all, he is a nintendo one, which means it's also not related to mobile. Maybe we will get a new port on the switch? ToS HD or other Tales game? Lloyd in Smash could be part of the way they celebrate it with Nintendo?… I don't freaking know… all this absence of tales news both since last year and now after they teased it this July are driving me INSANE, lol.

That's the end of my crazy theory based on bits here and there, lol.
 
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DutchPichu

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Dec 24, 2013
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453
Is it even likely we will get more DLC after FP11? With all those people talking about fighters after the second fighter's pass.
 

Nazyrus

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Messages
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Is it even likely we will get more DLC after FP11? With all those people talking about fighters after the second fighter's pass.
I think we will only know for sure after E3 2021, which is the time around negotiations 2 times in a row (2018 E3 was most likely when they negotiated pass 1, and pass 2 was during E3 2019). Before then, it's impossible to say imo, they could go hard on the claim for no more DLC for the entirety of the pass… or change their minds at some point and announce more after E3 2021 like they did with pass 2 last year. I personally don't think we will get a 3rd pass.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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Dec 1, 2019
Messages
4,437
At the very least, I'd love a big last wave of (premium?) Mii Costumes after the second Fighter's Pass. Basically be a final bow for various third parties (and Nintendo) for Smash Ultimate, letting some beloved characters get in before the game wraps up.
 

Super10ZX

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Jun 27, 2018
Messages
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Pakky Pakky It’s great to here from you again! The newcomer stock icons thread was one of the first threads I ever posted in on here.

I just have a question for you if you’re ok with answering it, what’s your reason for believing Cacomallow is real? I’m curious because of your experience with 3D modeling.
 

Sigran101

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Is there any actual evidence of bonus characters aside from there being rumors about more characters than we have remaining slots for? Because Sakurai has said many times that this is it. Quotes like "Once these fighters are released, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will finally be complete" are pretty hard to dismiss as PR talk or as leaving it open ended.
 

Mr. Peepee

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Messages
382
Plans could change, take a look at Fighter Pass 2, it was convinced due to the reception and money (I think)
Is there any actual evidence of bonus characters aside from there being rumors about more characters than we have remaining slots for? Because Sakurai has said many times that this is it. Quotes like "Once these fighters are released, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will finally be complete" are pretty hard to dismiss as PR talk or as leaving it open ended.
 

Nazyrus

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That's why i say it's impossible to tell this early. I personally don't expect this, but if they change their mind and announce more, it won't be now, but after next year's E3 when they potentially would negotiate for more characters (unless the bonus characters are all first party then there is no need for negotiations lol)
 

Trevenant

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Is there any actual evidence of bonus characters aside from there being rumors about more characters than we have remaining slots for? Because Sakurai has said many times that this is it. Quotes like "Once these fighters are released, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will finally be complete" are pretty hard to dismiss as PR talk or as leaving it open ended.
Aside from how people are saying how much money it will make (which can be applied to practically everything released as paid DLC for not only smash but any moderately popular game) there is more going against it. We won't know for sure until it's announced or the DLC is over but until then sugar coating official statements and other things going against anything other than promised(one of which being very conclusive which very much indicates that this pass is almost definitely the end and how Smahd can't go on forever and these fighters are already being classed as 'extra extra') certainly doesn't make it seem more likely and makes it seem less likely on the basis that actual hard facts need to be bent into something they are not in order to make some evidence that seems plausible at first glance but in reality isn't much more than wishful thinking.
 

YsDisciple

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Yeah it's one of my top 3 favorite games from the Gamecube specifically, alongside Metroid Prime and Twilight Princess. I beat it with my best friend at his house (since he was the one that owned it) back when i went to high school long ago… such good memories. I was pancake boi 24/7 haha.




I actually had an epiphany about this last night, thanks to Steve's way of reveal… I know this is not geno related but since we are speculating multiple characters, I will use that as my excuse to make a case for one of many Lloyd's "possible" times of getting revealed:

TGA is on December 10th if i'm not mistaken, and the Tales Anniversary is on the 15th… what If they do something similar like Steve, where he gets announced first (in this case it would be TGA) and then highlighted at the Anniversary event? (just like steve was highlighted to be in smash near the end of minecraft live / minecon stream).
Of course, Lloyd could be anywhere in the remaining pass, this is just one of the endless possibilities of where he could be appearing, but with the anniversary coming so close after TGA (not because it's an anniverasry per say, because anniversaries mean JACK **** in smash speculation, they never were a good hint for anything and they are terrible banana peels to make people think something is actually happening and then it doesn't…) I think it's something they could highlight there if it was revealed just previously at the game awards, similar to how they did it with Steve now.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Gotta keep in mind also that they tweeted in ENGLISH about celebrating the anniversary in the upcoming months with news, back in THIS JULY, and so far… months have passed, and we have gotten NO NEWS from Tales whatsoever for its 25th Anniversary.

So far all I saw by doing some research in japanaese is a crossover of, you heard it, yet again Tales of SYMPHONIA x SYMPHOGEAR, which is some mobile garbage we don't care about lol and i think it's just japanese so that definitely won't cut it alone to celebrate a whole 25th anniversary, plus they haven't even highlighted it in their anniversary twitter even! The point of me mentoining this crossover is just to bring attention to how they keep using Symphonia for crossovers over… and over … and over again, lol.

Just what exactly is Namco doing with this franchise? Tales of Arise is delayed with no date nor new trailer, and they hype this anniversary with the promise of news that aren't even happening? …… or is this all gonna be saved for December? lol I dunno anymore… it makes no sense the way they are handling this, maybe we will indeed see it all in December, whatever they got planned, because they even tease it as "a lot" of things coming.

Funnily enough, they got that book logo and the words "tales of series" trademarked back in 2019's October, the same month where just a few days after NoA guy told me "tales news coming". I asked him for specifics in different times, but he said the same over and over again "that's all i heard, I don't know what, just that tales news are coming". And then we never got any news for the rest of that year, nor so far this year at all. Of course the news have to be for stuff coming to Nintendo, because that's the only type of Tales news he would be told to come, he is not a bamco source after all, he is a nintendo one, which means it's also not related to mobile. Maybe we will get a new port on the switch? ToS HD or other Tales game? Lloyd in Smash could be part of the way they celebrate it with Nintendo?… I don't freaking know… all this absence of tales news both since last year and now after they teased it this July are driving me INSANE, lol.

That's the end of my crazy theory based on bits here and there, lol.
Ever since I saw that Tales of logo (the book with the feather pen), what immediately came to mind was how perfect it looks like a Tales rep Smash icon. I mean, it just does.

Imagine how crazy it would be that all this theorizing, Lloyd's Mii Costume still M.I.A., and all this time, Bandai Namco had already teased us with his inclusion by revealing this logo which actually would end up being the official Lloyd character icon in SSBU. That would be a GALAXY brain play (clever and plausible since Bandai Namco co-developed SSBU).

On the proximity between TGA 2020, and the Tales of Anniversary date, dang you're right. The timing for a potential announcement would fit in perfectly. Tease a-la Joker on TGA, full character reveal on the Anniversary. Release date on early January.

Ok, back to Geno.
 

Megadoomer

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what can Lloyd do? I’ve never played Tales of Symphonia
I haven't played much of Tales of Symphonia (enough to get all of the party members, but not enough to get to the second disc; I stopped playing when I wasn't able to make any progress on getting a lightning summon and couldn't figure out what to do), but from what I recall, the gameplay is fairly similar to Smash Bros. in terms of attacks - A for basic attacks and B for specials, and holding up, down, or forward to change what attack is being used.

Lloyd uses two swords, and I recall that he can do things like shoot shockwaves from them, along with his attacks seeming like they'd fit well in Smash Bros. due to the similar control schemes. Honestly, you'd be better off asking in the Lloyd Irving thread, since they'd be the most likely to be informed on the topic.
 
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MonkeyDLenny

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Messages
1,559
Yeah it's one of my top 3 favorite games from the Gamecube specifically, alongside Metroid Prime and Twilight Princess. I beat it with my best friend at his house (since he was the one that owned it) back when i went to high school long ago… such good memories. I was pancake boi 24/7 haha.




I actually had an epiphany about this last night, thanks to Steve's way of reveal… I know this is not geno related but since we are speculating multiple characters, I will use that as my excuse to make a case for one of many Lloyd's "possible" times of getting revealed:

TGA is on December 10th if i'm not mistaken, and the Tales Anniversary is on the 15th… what If they do something similar like Steve, where he gets announced first (in this case it would be TGA) and then highlighted at the Anniversary event? (just like steve was highlighted to be in smash near the end of minecraft live / minecon stream).
Of course, Lloyd could be anywhere in the remaining pass, this is just one of the endless possibilities of where he could be appearing, but with the anniversary coming so close after TGA (not because it's an anniverasry per say, because anniversaries mean JACK **** in smash speculation, they never were a good hint for anything and they are terrible banana peels to make people think something is actually happening and then it doesn't…) I think it's something they could highlight there if it was revealed just previously at the game awards, similar to how they did it with Steve now.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Gotta keep in mind also that they tweeted in ENGLISH about celebrating the anniversary in the upcoming months with news, back in THIS JULY, and so far… months have passed, and we have gotten NO NEWS from Tales whatsoever for its 25th Anniversary.

So far all I saw by doing some research in japanaese is a crossover of, you heard it, yet again Tales of SYMPHONIA x SYMPHOGEAR, which is some mobile garbage we don't care about lol and i think it's just japanese so that definitely won't cut it alone to celebrate a whole 25th anniversary, plus they haven't even highlighted it in their anniversary twitter even! The point of me mentoining this crossover is just to bring attention to how they keep using Symphonia for crossovers over… and over … and over again, lol.

Just what exactly is Namco doing with this franchise? Tales of Arise is delayed with no date nor new trailer, and they hype this anniversary with the promise of news that aren't even happening? …… or is this all gonna be saved for December? lol I dunno anymore… it makes no sense the way they are handling this, maybe we will indeed see it all in December, whatever they got planned, because they even tease it as "a lot" of things coming.

Funnily enough, they got that book logo and the words "tales of series" trademarked back in 2019's October, the same month where just a few days after NoA guy told me "tales news coming". I asked him for specifics in different times, but he said the same over and over again "that's all i heard, I don't know what, just that tales news are coming". And then we never got any news for the rest of that year, nor so far this year at all. Of course the news have to be for stuff coming to Nintendo, because that's the only type of Tales news he would be told to come, he is not a bamco source after all, he is a nintendo one, which means it's also not related to mobile. Maybe we will get a new port on the switch? ToS HD or other Tales game? Lloyd in Smash could be part of the way they celebrate it with Nintendo?… I don't freaking know… all this absence of tales news both since last year and now after they teased it this July are driving me INSANE, lol.

That's the end of my crazy theory based on bits here and there, lol.

Lloyd is a character I have no real attachment to, but I've since come to warm up to the idea of his inclusion. Let's also not forget; out of all of the returning Smash 4 costumes Lloyd, Geno, Monster Hunter, and Chocobo hat are the only ones still missing this late into the DLC seasons, and with so much substantial MH content already in the base game it doesn't seem likely they'll get a fighter upgrade as it would have happened already

Which means...

There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

Nazyrus

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Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,837
Lloyd is a character I have no real attachment to, but I've since come to warm up to the idea of his inclusion. Let's also not forget; out of all of the returning Smash 4 costumes Lloyd, Geno, Monster Hunter, and Chocobo hat are the only ones still missing this late into the DLC seasons, and with so much substantial MH content already in the base game it doesn't seem likely they'll get a fighter upgrade as it would have happened already

Which means...

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Imran also already doesn't think MH is getting in, so there's that.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

Fatmanonice

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Is there any actual evidence of bonus characters aside from there being rumors about more characters than we have remaining slots for? Because Sakurai has said many times that this is it. Quotes like "Once these fighters are released, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will finally be complete" are pretty hard to dismiss as PR talk or as leaving it open ended.
A lot, honestly.

1. The sixteen dummyslots (as everyone knows).

2. The seven empty stage spots as of Steve.

3. The fact that Smash rumors from 2018 are now planning out in 2020.

(Really abridged versions of character explanations)

4. Capcom has not only been super enthusiastic about the idea of Dante in Smash but has already done a ton of footwork to make it happen.

5. The Crash document highlighting Activision's 5 year plan for the franchise has been spot on, noting things like the N-Sane Trilogy for Switch, Crash 4 and the Crash Mobile game.

6. A lot in Chief's corner including some things that were probably, possibly, most likely gotten through, er, um... cough*veryillegalmeans*cough. Let's just say it's pretty damning stuff and that there's some sort of stuff planned for Chief in the future.

7. If Season 2 had followed the exact same timing and spacing Season 1 did, all 6 packs would have been released by April 2021, a full 8 months ahead of schedule. Obviously COVID has screwed up things but Sakurai proudly announcing that Season 2 would definitely be done by January 2022 in Steve's video, a video recorded in August, mind you, is fairly suspicious.

There's more but I feel like these are some of the bigger talking points..
 

CopperKoopa

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Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
266
I finally just got around to listening to the did you know gaming on Smash Ultimate rumors and it reminded me how many characters we still don't know the status on. With the new knowledge that things can take several years to materialize and the logical speculation that the passes have been swapped around to accommodate development... I know this is beaten to death as a topic, but let me just reiterate the characters that had consistently been mixed in with legitimate information, which now includes "Minecraft content":

Geno
Doomguy
Ryu Hayabusa
Monster Hunter
Gran Blue Fantasy character
Lloyd
Dante

And because this is the Geno thread, let me emphasize that Geno has been speculated and "leaked" probably the most of any of the characters on that list. Just saying. We may have more or less found our final four right above this paragraph, give or take one more character nobody has mentioned (cough*Crash*cough)
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,164
Location
Ireland
Is there any actual evidence of bonus characters aside from there being rumors about more characters than we have remaining slots for? Because Sakurai has said many times that this is it. Quotes like "Once these fighters are released, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will finally be complete" are pretty hard to dismiss as PR talk or as leaving it open ended.
I don't think I'm ever going to be shocked if they turn around and say there's more. Although personally I'd be more inclined to believe in the possibility of a single bonus character (like Piranha Plant) versus a full blown third fighter pass.

Personally I feel like the four vacant stage slots are more likely to be bonus stages (like small battlefield) than they are to be a part of a third fighter pass.

Generally I'm still expecting the remaining four characters in fighter pass two to be the final ones.....but I don't think the possibility of more fighters being added after that is completely zero either.
 

Fatmanonice

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
18,432
Location
Somewhere... overthinking something
NNID
Fatmanonice
So, while I was throwing away hot, smelly garbage from the main dormitories this morning, I realized we're probably not bonezoned when it comes to Smash news and I'll make out why:

Smash 4:

April, June, November, December

Fighter's Pass:

November, December, February, April, June, July, September, November, January (was supposed to be December according to Imran Khan)

Notice anything? We're currently in a timeline coincidentally similar to the Fighter's Pass.

Min Min was supposed to be an April, pushed back 2 months to almost July, 3 months later comes Steve. Sound familiar? Joker was April and Hero was July. Min Min was late June and Steve was early October so it's a very similar time gap. Banjo was released about a month later from Hero. Min Min's presentation was recorded in early May, Steve in August. Hero's presentation was recorded in June, Banjo's in very early August. Once again, very similar time gap.

The gap between Hero and Banjo was only slightly more than a month because they were announced at E3 2019. Steve and 8 were supposed to be at E3 2020, suggesting a similar timegap in that 8 will probably be a November announcement. This also makes sense because Joker was a December reveal and Byleth was supposed to be one, heavily suggesting that there should be one this year. This is meaningful because we saw this happen with Plant and Joker and this was supposed to happen with Terry and Byleth. The fact that 8 and 9 likely won't release until 2021 doesn't matter because, as pointed out, Plant was a February 2019 release and Joker an April 2019 release.

TL;DR version: Based on how Smash news has been handled since 2013, getting major Smash news in November and December is pretty decent so 8 being announced in early to mid November is a reasonable expectation.
 

Peeton

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
237
NNID
starwolfe
straps on tinfoil hat

Guys, this might sound crazy but, hear a fella out. There are now only four (4) slots left in the Fighters Pass Vol. 2. However, something very curious just came to my attention. From among the most requested characters, there are four of them who's franchises are celebrating their 25th Anniversary around this time, and going into next year.
  • Rayman = September 1, 2020 (I know it already passed but, there's still another Ubisoft Forward stream in the works for this year)
  • Tales of (Lloyd) = December 15, 2020
  • Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (Geno) = March 9, 2021 (not really a franchise, but a classic title that will be celebrating it's 25th anniversary)
  • Crash Bandicoot = September 9, 2021 (news for a potential Switch version of Crash 4 could come around 2021)
Now, why would anniversaries matter now when they never meant much in the past in terms of Smash? Well, this time around it would be the specific anniversary (being the 25th), and how many are celebrating it (4). The usual maximum percentage to which the concept of "whole" (total, complete) is 100%. When one divides said percentage by 4, it becomes 25%. Ah, the number 25! Four IPs that together make "something" whole. What might that something be? The Fighters Pass of course!

begins to laugh maniacally

...
...

takes off tinfoil hat

Whoa... this is a disgusting reach. Don't mind this nonsense folks. Carry on. :luigimelee:
I wouldn't be opposed to this pass. The only thing I’d be personally concerned about is Rayman. Do sales for the pass go to the developers of 3rd party characters? If so, I’d be really upset about giving Ubisoft money
 

MattX20

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
6,325
So, while I was throwing away hot, smelly garbage from the main dormitories this morning, I realized we're probably not bonezoned when it comes to Smash news and I'll make out why:

Smash 4:

April, June, November, December

Fighter's Pass:

November, December, February, April, June, July, September, November, January (was supposed to be December according to Imran Khan)

Notice anything? We're currently in a timeline coincidentally similar to the Fighter's Pass.

Min Min was supposed to be an April, pushed back 2 months to almost July, 3 months later comes Steve. Sound familiar? Joker was April and Hero was July. Min Min was late June and Steve was early October so it's a very similar time gap. Banjo was released about a month later from Hero. Min Min's presentation was recorded in early May, Steve in August. Hero's presentation was recorded in June, Banjo's in very early August. Once again, very similar time gap.

The gap between Hero and Banjo was only slightly more than a month because they were announced at E3 2019. Steve and 8 were supposed to be at E3 2020, suggesting a similar timegap in that 8 will probably be a November announcement. This also makes sense because Joker was a December reveal and Byleth was supposed to be one, heavily suggesting that there should be one this year. This is meaningful because we saw this happen with Plant and Joker and this was supposed to happen with Terry and Byleth. The fact that 8 and 9 likely won't release until 2021 doesn't matter because, as pointed out, Plant was a February 2019 release and Joker an April 2019 release.

TL;DR version: Based on how Smash news has been handled since 2013, getting major Smash news in November and December is pretty decent so 8 being announced in early to mid November is a reasonable expectation.
That also lines up with the time table I made the other day regarding how both the reveals and releases for Min Min and Steve were about 3 months away or so for each
 

Hot_N_Tasty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
470
straps on tinfoil hat

Guys, this might sound crazy but, hear a fella out. There are now only four (4) slots left in the Fighters Pass Vol. 2. However, something very curious just came to my attention. From among the most requested characters, there are four of them who's franchises are celebrating their 25th Anniversary around this time, and going into next year.
  • Rayman = September 1, 2020 (I know it already passed but, there's still another Ubisoft Forward stream in the works for this year)
  • Tales of (Lloyd) = December 15, 2020
  • Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (Geno) = March 9, 2021 (not really a franchise, but a classic title that will be celebrating it's 25th anniversary)
  • Crash Bandicoot = September 9, 2021 (news for a potential Switch version of Crash 4 could come around 2021)
Now, why would anniversaries matter now when they never meant much in the past in terms of Smash? Well, this time around it would be the specific anniversary (being the 25th), and how many are celebrating it (4). The usual maximum percentage to which the concept of "whole" (total, complete) is 100%. When one divides said percentage by 4, it becomes 25%. Ah, the number 25! Four IPs that together make "something" whole. What might that something be? The Fighters Pass of course!

begins to laugh maniacally

...
...

takes off tinfoil hat

Whoa... this is a disgusting reach. Don't mind this nonsense folks. Carry on. :luigimelee:
This would be my ideal remainder of the pass. That said I have my doubts for rayman considering the multitude of ubi content we got already before a character. That said I'm optimistic on Crash, Lloyd and Geno.
 

Mr. Peepee

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
382
Oh yeah! The Activision Crash Roadmap document! Does that have any truth to it? Apparently Leakers said that it’s true but which ones?
 
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Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,961
People are doubtful that additional fighters would happen, but no one would be surprised if they did add more characters.
 
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Mizzle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
52
Alright, I'm bored, so allow me to propose "Second Chance Theory", which attempts to explain the odd case that some Mii Costume characters are currently in right now. I've never seen anybody talk about this and I think it could explain a lot of things.
*We know that there were originally no plans for further DLC beyond FP1, so every Mii Costume from 4 was likely to be included by the end of FP1. The original plan was likely to have six Mii Costumes alongside every DLC fighter.
*FP2 was reportedly greenlit sometime around E3 2019, negotiations likely followed soon after.
*Certain Mii Costumes were excluded as either Sakurai or Nintendo wanted to approach their IP holders to see if they wanted a "second chance in FP2" because they had missed out on FP1.
*Specifically, there were discussions for Geno, a Bandai Namco rep, and Monster Hunter.

-Speculation about Geno
*His Mii Costume was originally meant to release with Hero, along with the Chocobo hat.
*Sakurai himself was the one who held Geno back, as he personally likes the character and knew that there was a large fanbase for the character.
*He likely approached Square Enix to see if he could be included in FP2.
*Still up in the air if Geno will in fact be the Square Enix rep of FP2, but with the amount of strange coincidences that seem to point to his inclusion, he seems more likely than not.

-Speculation about a Bandai Namco rep
*The Bandai Namco costumes were likely going to spread out throughout FP1.
*Sakurai likely asked Bandai Namco if they wanted another one of their characters to be included in the game, especially since they are the ones primarily developing the game. It's also important to note that they were likely asked if they wanted another character beyond Pac-Man in both the base game and in FP1, and we know how that turned out.
*It seems that they declined the offer once again, as they are now spreading their Mii Costumes from 4 throughout FP2. It seems likely that Lloyd's costume will return alongside Fighter 8.
*Lloyd or any other Bandai Namco rep isn't completely deconfirmed yet, but things definitely don't look well for them.

-Speculation about Monster Hunter
*Here we get into a side theory that Monster Hunter was likely going to be a base game addition. With Rathalos being a boss and Monster Hunter's music being listed alongside series that had a playable fighter, it makes sense that, at one point, the Hunter was considered as a full-fledged fighter.
*As we know from crossovers, the Monster Hunter dev team is really particular in how the Hunters are portrayed. They seem to like depicting the Monsters more than the Hunter themselves. I believe that Sakurai proposed a concept for Monster Hunter, but the MH dev team wasn't satisfied with it and decided to decline the offer and instead just include Rathalos as a boss. Sakurai may have possibly retooled the initial concept for the Hunter and applied it to Byleth, what with the weapon-switching and all.
*Despite this, Nintendo was likely the one who wanted the Hunter to get a "second chance" and see if they wanted to include them in FP2, mostly due to the series massive success in Japan.
*The MH dev team likely declined yet again, meaning that we'll see the Monster Hunter Mii Costumes return at some point.
*Keep in mind that this doesn't rule out another Capcom rep from happening, but that Monster Hunter was likely the priority for Nintendo.

It's also interesting to note that the characters revealed for FP2 so far could both be viewed as "second chance" fighters, with Steve having been negotiated for five years and Min Min missing out on base game due to timing. It's also why I still think Rex & Pyra have a shot of getting in FP2.

Anyway, I've gone on for long enough. There's really no way to prove that this theory is real, but it's food for thought.
tl;dr:
*Every Smash 4 Mii Costume was originally going to be released by the end of FP1.
*As FP2 was greenlit around E3 2019; Geno (and the Chocobo hat), the Bandai Namco costumes, and the Monster Hunter costumes were held back to see if they could be full fighters in FP2.
*Things look good for Geno, but not so good for a Bandai Namco rep or Monster Hunter.
*Other characters in FP2 may be "second chance" characters, such as Rex.

Oh yeah, if you want to know what my prediction for FP2 is, it's Geno, Hayabusa, Crash, and Rex & Pyra.
 

Enigma735

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
1,322
Location
Mt. Cuminshidmore
Switch FC
SW-0889-8796-1569
Time to put on my tinfoil Geno hat for a second.
GenoTinfoilHatModel.png


As we all know, the Square Enix Mii Outfits from Smash 4 have still not returned in to Ultimate. Obviously, this is a huge indicator that we could get another Square Enix rep, but this theory kinda extends further than that. This theory I believe can help narrow down who we could possibly see in the last four remaining spots.

We just recently got another Microsoft rep with Steve. What is notable about this is that in the last Pass, we also had a Microsoft rep with Banjo. Now, when they went over Banjo's wave in the last Pass. their was a whopping total of ZERO Mii Outfits related to Microsoft or Rare, and Banjo's wave was the first instance of a "grab bag". My reasoning as to why they skipped over adding any Microsoft Mii Outfits in Banjo's wave might be because they already knew they were gonna bring along Microsoft Mii Outfits with Steve, so they just waited until then to add them. Now, some may point out that Microsoft isn't a returning third-party and they were introduced in Ultimate, but even as a new company being introduced to Smash, it was still pretty notable that their was a lack of Microsoft Mii Outfits and it was by far the biggest thing going in favor of us getting another Microsoft rep, which obviously did eventually pan out.

So, with this in mind, the only actual returning third-party from Smash 4 that STILL doesn't have any Mii Outfits is Square Enix, aside from the Dragon Quest ones. Now, some may point out that the Dragon Quest outfits might put a final nail in the coffin to this theory, as those ARE Square costumes. BUT, I feel like this only applies to companies introduced in to Ultimate like Microsoft or SNK. Obviously, Microsoft had nothing in Smash 4 so of course their would be no returning Microsoft outfits. In this case, Square did have costumes in Smash 4 that COULD have returned, but they have not, SEVEN WAVES LATER. So, I think if you are a RETURNING third-party from Smash 4 who has no returning Mii Outfit, then that is a good indicator that we will get another rep from that company.

However, this theory isn't all good news though as I personally feel this could deconfirm potential characters. In the last Pass, the companies that had reps were SEGA\Atlus, Square Enix, Microsoft, SNK and Nintendo. Joker's wave introduced Persona-themed Mii Outfits as well as the Knuckles and Tails Mii Outfits, which is why I think a SEGA rep sounds extremely unlikely, since why would they add another SEGA\Atlus rep if they didn't plan on saving those costumes for another SEGA rep? This theory also shoots down a potential SNK rep since Terry's outfits featured a wide array of SNK costumes and featured the last remaining SEGA outfits, even furthering the nail in the coffin for a potential SEGA rep. [And besides, Terry's entire Challenger Pack was less so about Fatal Fury, and moreso about SNK as a whole, so I highly doubt another SNK rep is coming]. Now Nintendo is an interesting case, but I don't think this theory really applies to them, as this is moreso about the third-party companies. Not only that, but I think this theory can also deconfirm characters from newly introduced companies like Ubisoft and Bethesda, since both companies have Mii Outfits.

I feel like this theory was kinda tricky to explain but let me sum it up for you all. I think if a newly introduced company, ala Microsoft and SNK, does NOT get any Mii Outfits AT ALL, then that is a good indicator they may get another rep. Obviously as I explained, Banjo's Pass had no Microsoft Mii Outfits, and Steve eventually brought over Minecraft outfits. And if you are a returning company, ala SEGA, Capcom, Namco and Square Enix, then the best way to tell if these companies may get another rep is if they, as of right now, do not have any of their returning Smash 4 outfits in Ultimate. The only one of these returning third parties that do not have any of their Smash 4 outfits back is Square Enix. Namco is an interesting case since they develop Smash, so like Nintendo, I'm not too sure if this theory applies to them as well. SEGA sounds unlikely since all the SEGA outfits from Smash 4 have returned, and while the only missing Capcom outfits are the Monster Hunter ones, Capcom is still getting new outfits very frequently, as well as returning outfits from Smash 4.

So with this theory in mind, I predict that the remaining companies to get reps are Square Enix, Activision, Namco and Nintendo. I already explained why Square Enix will most likely get another rep so I'm not gonna go to in depth with that. Activision, however, goes along nicely with this theory because they are so far the only major third-party company that has YET to get any representation in Smash, which yes, includes no Mii Outfits. While Namco does have returning outfits, they develop this game so I don't think they really apply to this theory, and Nintendo is Nintendo.

As for my exact character predictions for the rest of this Pass, I predict the Square rep will be Geno obviously, the Activision rep will be Crash, the Namco rep will be Lloyd, and the Nintendo rep will be Rex from Xenoblade.

This is definitely an interesting theory of mine, so I hope you all enjoy it. I also hope you all understand this theory since I'm not too sure if I explained it well enough. I know this was a rather long post, so props to anyone who has read the full thing, since this took me almost two hours to write-up. I am hoping this pans out in the end because I'm not the best when it comes to predicting things, but it is fun to make theories and sometimes, theories can mean something. We just need to wait and see.
 
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