Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its funny that if Geno were to get in, he could easily be classified as the Nintendo retro character for the (paid) DLC given that he's older now (24 plus years) than Mr. Game and Watch (21 years), Ice Climbers (16 years), or R.O.B. (22 Years) were at the time of their respective Smash debuts.

 

[okamifire]

I know this isn't what Smash has become, but I miss the old fighting games when a new game was filled with 100% new characters. Games like Primal Rage, Clay Fighters, Power Stone, more or less any first game in a series. People liked those games because of the variety of cast and mechanics, not because it had characters people were familiar with. I get that characters are a big part of Smash, but if you made the very same game with 20 original characters, it'd still be lots of fun. I'm also convinced that gatekeeping rules are set up very specifically by people who don't want said gatekept character, like Armadillo said above. The only "rule" as far as Sakurai or anyone has said and stuck to is that the characters must originate from video games. That's the only rule I'm sticking with.

 

[YsDisciple]

Decided to take a look again at how Nintendo's stock performed on Monday (technically in Japan it came and went) and lo and behold, the stock's price is continuing on an upward trend. The trend started around the beginning of August with a few slow downs but, as it is right now, the stock price is currently the highest it has ever been if one looks throughout the span of five years. That's quite notable. With the latest earnings schedule that went up a while back, Nintendo showed that sales pretty much CRUSHED the first two quarters of 2020. Digital sales went up, and Animal Crossing: New Horizons pretty much carried the Company from March and onward. I'd dare add to the potential reasons for the stock's upward trend, the rumors of a Friday Nintendo Direct happening this week. Again, this is only speculation but, after looking at the stock's trend those sales have to be carrying some extra "sauce".
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/7974:JP

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Not relevant but any meme squad member willing to do a commission (not for money of course just for e-cred and s**** & giggles) pm me.

Now relevant: Exciting that we could be looking at a direct this week. Not convinced at all we will get one, but exciting if true even if it's a mini. Also, excited that Rivals of Aether is coming to Switch soon so I can try it out.

Hopefully, if there is a direct coming up, we get some of these big announcements that have been rumored (and obviously Geno).

 

[Let Geno Smash]

In other stuff, today is the 29th anniversary of the american release of the SNES, our boi console: https://twitter.com/thebourgyman/status/1297732080454045700?s=20

 

[Corbin]

Not to get too off-topic, but I got some good news today with an issue I've been dealing with for months. I'm finally about to finally be back to normal, this is such a huge weight off my shoulders. This would be the perfect week to end with Geno getting announced. Here's hoping!

 

[MisterMike]

Hey guys, I'm on the precipice of this post being done but it likely won't be tonight.

To include you all, I want you to hit me up with your favorite Broken Fan Rule from Ultimate.

Basically, whichever fan rule that Ultimate broke that made you feel the most like 'Ha, SUCK ON IT! I TOLD YA!', I want you to hit me up with that right here right now.

Do your best not to make it character-specific (IE 'Ridley is too big' or 'B&K are a dead franchise') but something that encompasses multiple characters (IE 'These characters are too irrelevant') can totally work.

Spirits disconfirm, easily. While other made-up fan rules are often stupid enough for people to disregard on their premise alone, Spirits disconfirming did have some merit to it, at least when it came to the base game: If a character had a Spirit shown in prerelease, then they most definitely weren't getting in because playable characters didn't have normal Spirits like that, and if they were going to reveal a character, they wouldn't have them shown as some random Spirit before they decided to reveal them.

Post-release, however, was a different story. Since the DLC was most likely chosen after all of the Spirits were decided, the total Spirit count covers over 1000 potential characters, and since it would be utterly asinine for them to limit their options because of a bunch of .png files, the possibility was open for Spirits to be upgraded. Despite this, people would swear up and down that it would be impossible for them to add a DLC character who was also a Spirit.

Whether it be for lore reasons (Spirits are the very essence of a character and if they're in the game already, they can't be made into a fighter.), past precedent (We've yet to get a Spirit upgrade, so it's most likely not happening), percieved popularity (I mean, those characters were made into Spirits for a reason, right?), or even simply because they believed the devs cared about silly things like that, this point would be endlessly parroted for many months after release, even as contrary evidence continued to pile up.

Seeing this fan rule get obliterated with the reveal of Min Min was so incredibly satisfying that it motivated me to make this video in celebration. If that isn't representative of how much I relished it's destruction, then I don't know what else to say except that Spirits don't disconfirm.

 

[okamifire]

Spirits disconfirm, easily. While other made-up fan rules are often stupid enough for people to disregard on their premise alone, Spirits disconfirming did have some merit to it, at least when it came to the base game: If a character had a Spirit shown in prerelease, then they most definitely weren't getting in because playable characters didn't have normal Spirits like that, and if they were going to reveal a character, they wouldn't have them shown as some random Spirit before they decided to reveal them.

Post-release, however, was a different story. Since the DLC was most likely chosen after all of the Spirits were decided, the total Spirit count covers over 1000 potential characters, and since it would be utterly asinine for them to limit their options because of a bunch of .png files, the possibility was open for Spirits to be upgraded. Despite this, people would swear up and down that it would be impossible for them to add a DLC character who was also a Spirit.

Whether it be for lore reasons (Spirits are the very essence of a character and if they're in the game already, they can't be made into a fighter.), past precedent (We've yet to get a Spirit upgrade, so it's most likely not happening), percieved popularity (I mean, those characters were made into Spirits for a reason, right?), or even simply because they believed the devs cared about silly things like that, this point would be endlessly parroted for many months after release, even as contrary evidence continued to pile up.

Seeing this fan rule get obliterated with the reveal of Min Min was so incredibly satisfying that it motivated me to make this video in celebration. If that isn't representative of how much I relished it's destruction, then I don't know what else to say except that Spirits don't disconfirm.

I think the silliest thing to me about Spirits is if anything, post Base game DLC seems like Spirits might even be more likely (though that wasn't shown in Fighters Pass 1). Since they were the next most popular characters, it seems like they would have a higher chance of becoming playable since they sorta-kinda-already were popular enough to get in as spirits in the first place. I'm not saying I necessarily think the remaining characters in this pass will be from spirits or anything, but I absolutely wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. Assist Trophies too.

 

[Firox]

Assist trophies deconfirming is the final frontier. Once that rule is officially destroyed, we will finally be free of all earthly tethers. At that point, truly anything is possible within the realm of video games.

 

[Vector Victor]

I will never understand the people who go into full obnoxious arrogant jerk mode over guesses that they have zero control over, like the ones that offer deals like removing their accounts if character X is/is not playable. The ones that act so damn cocky with knowledge as if they are actually invited to participate in the developer's planning.

Its being rude and arrogant over a coin flip that is out of our hands. Why would anyone strive to be like that?

 

[Lord Woomy]

"Spirits deconfirm" because it was one of the dumbest examples of gatekeeping ever and the one that was fought the most aggressively. It was also the Titanic of many an edgelord that was like "if there's literally a single promotion of any kind in DLC, I'll delete my account and then make snow angels in dog **** outside my school! UH DURR HURR HURR!"

I will always say that this rule went from "Hey guys, what if the spirits can't be upgraded to fighters???" to its own weird cultish religion in under a year.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I will never understand the people who go into full obnoxious arrogant jerk mode over guesses that they have zero control over, like the ones that offer deals like removing their accounts if character X is/is not playable. The ones that act so damn cocky with knowledge as if they are actually invited to participate in the developer's planning.

Its being rude and arrogant over a coin flip that is out of our hands. Why would anyone strive to be like that?

"Geno will never be in Smash! I will strangle my dog to death and livestream it if Geno's in Smash! I'm such a child that being publicly wrong about literally anything will cause me to have a mental breakdown and destroy any semblance of self esteem I have! BEING PERCEIVED AS RIGHT ON THE INTERNET BY TOTAL STRANGERS IS THE ONLY THING KEEPING ME FROM BEING THE NEXT JEFFERY DAHMER!" -Official PR statement from SmashFAQs, August 24th, 2020

 

[Trevenant]

At one point spirits did deconfirm which was practically during the whole of the FP since they would have accounted for the presence of a character who was a spirit. They weren't disqualifying them because they were spirits, it's that they were disqualified because they were spirits. Either way it doesn't mean much now. Spirits at least from base game are on the table with the DLC exception of Pokemon.

 

[MisterMike]

I think the silliest thing to me about Spirits is if anything, post Base game DLC seems like Spirits might even be more likely (though that wasn't shown in Fighters Pass 1). Since they were the next most popular characters, it seems like they would have a higher chance of becoming playable since they sorta-kinda-already were popular enough to get in as spirits in the first place. I'm not saying I necessarily think the remaining characters in this pass will be from spirits or anything, but I absolutely wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. Assist Trophies too.

Exactly. And it's this very thing that informs my predictions for the rest of Vol 2.

I will never understand the people who go into full obnoxious arrogant jerk mode over guesses that they have zero control over, like the ones that offer deals like removing their accounts if character X is/is not playable. The ones that act so damn cocky with knowledge as if they are actually invited to participate in the developer's planning.

Its being rude and arrogant over a coin flip that is out of our hands. Why would anyone strive to be like that?

Three words: Dunning-Kruger Effect. Smart people are smart enough to consider that they may not be the smartest guy in the room, meanwhile dumb people are too stupid to concieve of the concept.

There's also the many personal biases that people who make these kinds of arguments hold. If none of the characters you want in Smash are Spirits, the likelier you are to believe such things as Spirits disconfirming characters. Conversely, if a character you want could be impeded or argued as less likely if Spirits disconfirm characters, the more likely you are to disagree and argue against it.

 

[MattX20]

I'll be glad when this is all over.

 

[Trevenant]

I'll be glad when this is all over.

I mean, all this could pertain to a number of things but just based solely how it includes once Covid gets sorted, some actual info on Nintendo and Smash info picking up again, then I think I can agree with all of that.

 

[Icewolff92]

Exactly. And it's this very thing that informs my predictions for the rest of Vol 2.
View attachment 283329


Three words: Dunning-Kruger Effect. Smart people are smart enough to consider that they may not be the smartest guy in the room, meanwhile dumb people are too stupid to concieve of the concept.

There's also the many personal biases that people who make these kinds of arguments hold. If none of the characters you want in Smash are Spirits, the likelier you are to believe such things as Spirits disconfirming characters. Conversely, if a character you want could be impeded or argued as less likely if Spirits disconfirm characters, the more likely you are to disagree and argue against it.

If there is an Assist Trophy that is gonna be upgraded, it will be Isaac and not Waluigi. Especially if the Golden Sun rumor is true.

 

[Andwooooo]

If there is an Assist Trophy that is gonna be upgraded, it will be Isaac and not Waluigi. Especially if the Golden Sun rumor is true.

I can agree with that. After Nintendo was blindsided by the fan response to Isaac returning as an AT, I can see them fast tracking a Golden Sun remake/master for the Switch and promoting Isaac. Waluigi seems more like an inside joke for Nintendo and Sakurai.

 

[Deleted member]

I can agree with that. After Nintendo was blindsided by the fan response to Isaac returning as an AT, I can see them fast tracking a Golden Sun remake/master for the Switch and promoting Isaac. Waluigi seems more like an inside joke for Nintendo and Sakurai.

I also don’t think Nintendo would want to double dip on 2 Mario characters in the same pass. I think it’s either Waluigi or Geno. There is no hard rule about it but just unlikely to me.

 

[Icewolff92]

I also don’t think Nintendo would want to double dip on 2 Mario characters in the same pass. I think it’s either Waluigi or Geno. There is no hard rule about it but just unlikely to me.

I don´t think they will double dip on a franchise what so ever (is it possible that they will? Sure, but I doubt it) and I think Geno has a higher chance to arrive then Waluigi no matter if its next or last.

 

[Firox]

If there is an Assist Trophy that is gonna be upgraded, it will be Isaac and not Waluigi. Especially if the Golden Sun rumor is true.

Agreed. If we really are FINALLY getting a new Golden Sun game, it would make way too much sense to promote the new game and feed the fan demand at the same time.

I can agree with that. After Nintendo was blindsided by the fan response to Isaac returning as an AT, I can see them fast tracking a Golden Sun remake/master for the Switch and promoting Isaac. Waluigi seems more like an inside joke for Nintendo and Sakurai.

I also don’t think Nintendo would want to double dip on 2 Mario characters in the same pass. I think it’s either Waluigi or Geno. There is no hard rule about it but just unlikely to me.

Also agreed. I really don't want to make this a "Waluigi vs Geno" thing, but to be totally realistic, I don't see us getting Geno AND Waluigi together in the same pass. Maybe if one had come with FP#1 and the other with FP#2, but shoving them both into the same bundle seems very uncharacteristic of both Sakurai AND Nintendo. They're going to want to cast a widely diverse net of hype and I highly doubt they'll feel like two Mario spin-off characters together are the way to do it, especially if Isaac shows up as the "Assist trophy THIS *******" pick. And as Armadillo said, I'm not saying any of this as some kind of jacked up fan-made rule, this is just my personal hunch on the matter.

 

[okamifire]

I could see them adding both Geno and Waluigi, though I'm not sure it's likely. (Smash 4 had Roy and Corrin, both FE, so who knows.) If they do standalone DLC like Plant, Waluigi would be perfect for that probably. Not that I expect that. But it seems possible. I would like to think for the actual pass though, since it comes with music and a stage, they'd take the opportunity to pick more franchises. (To that effect, Geno is a little less likely too, but he has more music and more in the way of spirits and things than Waluigi probably.)

 

[Rural_Juror]

I could see them adding both Geno and Waluigi, though I'm not sure it's likely. (Smash 4 had Roy and Corrin, both FE, so who knows.) If they do standalone DLC like Plant, Waluigi would be perfect for that probably. Not that I expect that. But it seems possible. I would like to think for the actual pass though, since it comes with music and a stage, they'd take the opportunity to pick more franchises. (To that effect, Geno is a little less likely too, but he has more music and more in the way of spirits and things than Waluigi probably.)

This is a good point. I think the only argument for this is that with Roy and Corrin, it was a veteran and a newcomer. I still can't see two Super Mario characters in the same pass though.

 

[MisterMike]

If there is an Assist Trophy that is gonna be upgraded, it will be Isaac and not Waluigi. Especially if the Golden Sun rumor is true.

While I think it could go either way for the most part, and I'd prefer to see Isaac get in, I feel the scales tip a bit more in Waluigi's favor. I mean, he's one of the biggest NEVER EVER characters still standing today. His inclusion would be a massive deal, and given how crazy Smash Ultimate has been thus far in terms of fanservice it would be a perfect way to end off the DLC. But who knows? Maybe we could get both of them.

 

[Firox]

So, I was thinking, if the definitively last DLC character is anyone other than something INSANE like Master Chief, do you think they'd get the most hate thrown at them? I don't think it'd be fair to hate a character just because they don't meet peoples' astronomical expectations, however, since the last character would spell doom to all other speculated characters, I'm betting that they would get the most vitriol from the fan base. What do you guys think?

 

[Megadoomer]

So, I was thinking, if the definitively last DLC character is anyone other than something INSANE like Master Chief, do you think they'd get the most hate thrown at them? I don't think it'd be fair to hate a character just because they don't meet peoples' astronomical expectations, however, since the last character would spell doom to all other speculated characters, I'm betting that they would get the most vitriol from the fan base. What do you guys think?

I feel like they'll be met with hate no matter who it is, because they're (first party/third party/not exciting enough to end on/not the character that the person wanted). Even if it ended on Master Chief, I feel like there'd be complaints from Nintendo purists saying that he doesn't have a close enough association with Nintendo, so he shouldn't be included. Plus, since they're the last character, a lot of people will likely bash them because their inclusion means that nobody else is getting in afterwards, which would rule out a lot of characters.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I also don’t think Nintendo would want to double dip on 2 Mario characters in the same pass. I think it’s either Waluigi or Geno. There is no hard rule about it but just unlikely to me.

You could say that maybe the whole reason they added an extra character to this pass was because they wanted to add both Geno and Waluigi but were aware that two Mario characters taking up five slots might be too much.

So instead of getting a 5 fighter pass with two Mario characters......we're getting a 6 fighter pass with two Mario characters.

Normally I think I'd lean more towards not having two characters from the same series in the same pass....but Geno and Waluigi are both extremely popular and in demand characters. If there's any scenario where it's possible for a series to get two characters in one pass I think it's this scenario.

 

[Crankshadow]

Hopefully our long journey is coming to an end. It will be great if our boi is 7 so we can relax for another 4 characters. Sakurai truly is a mad lad.

 

[Andwooooo]

I still have 100 percent confidence that Geno will be revealed next, hopefully by Friday. Too many whispers and too much incompetence from GameStop to believe otherwise.

 

[Firox]

I still have 100 percent confidence that Geno will be revealed next, hopefully by Friday. Too many whispers and too much incompetence from GameStop to believe otherwise.

Oooh, what did Gamestop screw up this time?! Some juicy pre-release leaking, perhaps?

 

[AdamBel731]

I feel like they'll be met with hate no matter who it is, because they're (first party/third party/not exciting enough to end on/not the character that the person wanted). Even if it ended on Master Chief, I feel like there'd be complaints from Nintendo purists saying that he doesn't have a close enough association with Nintendo, so he shouldn't be included. Plus, since they're the last character, a lot of people will likely bash them because their inclusion means that nobody else is getting in afterwards, which would rule out a lot of characters.

I really don't envy who the last character is. If they pick 1st party, people will complain it should've been 3rd party. And vice versa. So many people in the Smash community (people here included) will basically just take a dump on whoever it is. As always, not everyone can be satisfied.

...However, personally, I think Waluigi is perfect for that final slot. I don't love Waluigi or anything, but a vast amount of people hate him already anyways in addition to him being popular so... just add Waluigi and let the entire Smash community burn. It'll destroy the Assist Trophy rule at the 11th hour, add in a heavily character, and one that will destroy the internet/Smash community in a blaze of glory. Love or hate him, I think Waluigi can handle the hate thrown at him while simultaneously basically being a genuine request while also being a meme for the final character in Ultimate.

Just let everything burn.

 

[Firox]

just add Waluigi and let the entire Smash community burn.

This is hilariously sadistic and yet ironically well-deserved. I approve.

 

[Icewolff92]

While I think it could go either way for the most part, and I'd prefer to see Isaac get in, I feel the scales tip a bit more in Waluigi's favor. I mean, he's one of the biggest NEVER EVER characters still standing today. His inclusion would be a massive deal, and given how crazy Smash Ultimate has been thus far in terms of fanservice it would be a perfect way to end off the DLC. But who knows? Maybe we could get both of them.

Let not kid ourselves here. Pretty much everyone has been a marketing material

Joker was to get more eyes on Persona 5 Royal and Persona 5 scramble.
Hero was a inclusion for the sake of marketing Dragon Quest for the west (I mean, its a reason 11, and not 3 that is the default skin)
Banjo Kazooie was because he was the best choice before Master Chief to promote Xbox due to his fan favorite status (there is a reason why Sakurai said "if you want to play Banjo Kazooie, you find them on Rare Replay on Xbox)
Byleth because of the upcoming DLC story at the time
Min Min because pushing Arms (confirming a free trial right after just screams "we want to push this franchise")

While Terry might not have been in the same category as them, Fatal Fury/Kingdom of Fighters is the game that inspired Sakurai to make Smash Brothers in the first place, so this could easily be seen as throwing him a bone.

Waluigi does not match any of these criteria. Grabbing someone like Isaac is a smarter move by Nintendo because its fan-favorite + easy way to review a dead franchise. If we get any "Wario related" character, it is more likely gonna be Ashley for the sake of Wario Ware.

Could Waluigi happen? Sure, I´ve not disqualified his chances down to 0. But with everything going on, I highly doubt it.

 

[Andwooooo]

Oooh, what did Gamestop screw up this time?! Some juicy pre-release leaking, perhaps?

Nothing in addition to the Pam Horton slip. GameStop did some damage control (in the worst possible way), but she's too smart and they're too dumb for that to not be a reveal in my eyes.

 

[helloiamhere]

The last time we had a general direct, the first guy/gal in wuhan who got it was just chillin and enjoying a normal life. We didn't even know what covid19 was.

I guess im saying: Its time.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

If there is an Assist Trophy that is gonna be upgraded, it will be Isaac and not Waluigi. Especially if the Golden Sun rumor is true.

I heavily doubt that said Golden Sun rumor is true. And even then, i expect no promotion before Isaac is even considered.

 

[Spatulo]

I heavily doubt that said Golden Sun rumor is true. And even then, i expect no promotion before Isaac is even considered.

Well aren’t you just a ray of sunshine.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Hopefully our long journey is coming to an end. It will be great if our boi is 7 so we can relax for another 4 characters. Sakurai truly is a mad lad.

That would be great. Then I could enjoy the ride. Instead of being tense before every reveal lol

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Hopefully our long journey is coming to an end. It will be great if our boi is 7 so we can relax for another 4 characters. Sakurai truly is a mad lad.

I remember thinking who could Fighter Pack #4 could be, and then i reminded myself that we got Banjo, so i wasn't anxious at all.

The last time we had a general direct, the first guy/gal in wuhan who got it was just chillin and enjoying a normal life. We didn't even know what covid19 was.

I guess im saying: Its time.

It was literally last year when we got a Direct. Things were more cheerful back then. At least i could go outside and take some sunlight.

Well aren’t you just a ray of sunshine.

Wow that wasn't Passive-Agressive at all!

......but seriously i understand i sound like that Mephiles guy, but when you support Isaac for 2 games straight, and yet he doesn't get in, you get a little demoralized. Trust me i was during the Smash Speculation days of Pre-Smash 4 (i was Speedwagon btw) and Smash Ultimate days, I remember when people thought that Isaac was gonna be Smash DLC in 4, and when his absence in Ultimate (i was more skeptical but still a little optimistic) made me think he could be in Smash. So to see him revealed as an Assist Trophy at literally the last moment possible was..................sad, to say the least.

Even if Isaac were to get in Smash Ultimate (i understand Icewolff92 's arugment by the way, him beign from an unrepped franchise could easily bring a brand new stage, new remixes, cameos and far more interesing stuff than Waluigi could bring, which is why most people see him as a bonus and not a Fighter Pack) i still don't see a new game happeing at all, not in the current state Camelot is at least.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Exactly. And it's this very thing that informs my predictions for the rest of Vol 2.
View attachment 283329


Three words: Dunning-Kruger Effect. Smart people are smart enough to consider that they may not be the smartest guy in the room, meanwhile dumb people are too stupid to concieve of the concept.

There's also the many personal biases that people who make these kinds of arguments hold. If none of the characters you want in Smash are Spirits, the likelier you are to believe such things as Spirits disconfirming characters. Conversely, if a character you want could be impeded or argued as less likely if Spirits disconfirm characters, the more likely you are to disagree and argue against it.

This would be a pretty damn good pass. I’d probably swap Master Chief & Rex though. I do believe the idea that Nintendo tries to put attention grabbing character towards the middle to get more sales.

I also don’t think Nintendo would want to double dip on 2 Mario characters in the same pass. I think it’s either Waluigi or Geno. There is no hard rule about it but just unlikely to me.

I feel they could make an exception since it’s MFing Mario. As well as the huge fanbase support that Geno & Waluigi have.

So, I was thinking, if the definitively last DLC character is anyone other than something INSANE like Master Chief, do you think they'd get the most hate thrown at them? I don't think it'd be fair to hate a character just because they don't meet peoples' astronomical expectations, however, since the last character would spell doom to all other speculated characters, I'm betting that they would get the most vitriol from the fan base. What do you guys think?

I’m not so sure anymore. After Incineroar & Byleth I think most people are expecting a lackluster ending.

I’m not a game developer so I’m not sure how hard it would be. But do you guys think it’d be easy for them to turn ATs into playable characters? They already have models & some animations/moves. So I imagine some of the work is already done. But I could be wrong & they might not be able to use any of that data for a Fighter.

Buuut if it were easy to do, then maybe we could see some ATs as bonus characters. Maybe some of them would bring stages to fill in the remaining three stage spots too?

Waluigi (no Stage), Isaac, Shovel Knight & Zero (Mega Man X stage) perhaps?