Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Shinuto]

Just realized, Vault Boy chucks out the idea that the premium costumes are only for indies. Not really sure how that makes me feel.

uhh he didnt come with a song.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

From what I remember, the thing that made a costume Premium is having a Music Track. That's the only official defining trait. Vault Boy was not considered a Premium costume. Thus, it's not an "Indie" thing either. No, it doesn't count with the trailer. It has to be the literal costume being bought with its own music track. It's not Premium otherwise.

...Vault Boy is also not Indie either. So this point never made sense to even bring up way earlier. It's not Deluxe either way. We've had two Deluxe Mii Gunner costumes, which is a neat coincidence, but we have no actual pattern either.

 

[pinshadow]

uhh he didnt come with a song.

It got it's own trailer, it's clearly more high effort than the rest of the costumes, Sakurai even mentioned the costume itself, and pretty much all of Fallout's music is licensed. It's pretty obviously premium.

 

[axel_]

Although considering Geno would be coming from Square, and if you believe square is stingy, he may be less likely to come with any tracks.

Not sure where this part is coming from, I never brought Geno or his music list up.
Regardless, I don't think "Square Enix is stingy" has much credence anymore. With Yoko Shimomura's huge part in the Smash music team I would expect her to have a lot of input on what songs are picked for Geno.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

It is worth noting that all the "premium" Mii costumes so far have been very unexpected and generally characters no one really expected to come to Smash as people have pointed out before. While the Indie factor is now called into question with "premium" costumes, the unexpected character piece still stands, so I still don't think we have that much to worry about. Heihachi returning as a costume is the scariest thing to me as a Geno fan and I'll honestly still be terrified during Mii costume portions until our boy is revealed.

i have lots but the two main characters i'm focusing all my energy into supporting at the moment are phoenix wright and sol badguy. the rest is either in a tough spot (through ats or spirits), don't have the best shot or are outright pipedreams.

buuuuuuut this is the geno thread so you guys carry on

I hope you get some characters you're really hoping for too. I do really like the idea of Phoenix in Smash despite never playing AA I think he would be a lot of fun. I can't speak to Sol, but I think he's got a solid design at least and I like the movesets I've seen for him.

 

[JarBear]

I use the "premium" mii costume as something pretty broad ... it looks more like the character as opposed to a Mii wearing a costume. So it doesn't need to have music or whatnot.

 

[Heoj]

Geno premium mii still makes no sense imo they wouldnt have a single reason to remodel the already existing mii and sell it for the same price.

Plus, premium geno mii would have a completely different reception than what sans cuphead and vault boy had. Like geno is a long time fan request and the 3 premium miis are all characters that havent been requested for too long and are the type of characters you wouldnt really actually consider to be playable.


To summarize: Geno is in!

 

[TriggerX]

Not sure where this part is coming from, I never brought Geno or his music list up.
Regardless, I don't think "Square Enix is stingy" has much credence anymore. With Yoko Shimomura's huge part in the Smash music team I would expect her to have a lot of input on what songs are picked for Geno.

Nah lemme clarify, i don’t mean you as in you specifically. Just in general.

Can’t even say that bottom part was even directed specifically at you, it was more or less a general thought in regards to the possibility of Geno coming back as a costume. I could see why it was confusing though.

But I guess since you mentioned Yoko, does she even own the music? Regardless if she composed it or not,I assume Square owns the rights to it.

 

[T2by4]

Just a reminder that they've used three mii gunners for deluxe mii costumes. I'm thinking they're gonna add some variety and make the next mii fighters brawlers/swordsman. Geno would be 4th deluxe mii gunner costume which would feel excessive for one style of mii costumes to get all the good deluxe ones.

 

[Enigma735]

I also think the fact that Min Min was chosen as the ARMS rep is yet again, more evidence that Nintendo And Sakurai listen to the fans. Sure, fans weren't very vocal about having ARMS in Smash, but the fact that they went through with getting the most popular ARMS character that was already a Spirit is proof in of itself that Nintendo And Sakurai wanna please as much fans as possible, even if its a character from a game most people are mixed about.

Also, if Sakurai And Nintendo are willing to upgrade the most popular ARMS character from a Spirit to a playable character, then I am sure they would do the same thing for Geno, who is one of the most requested characters for Smash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdrTcSlqjqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U1HPmnz18Q

All the Deluxe costumes officially noted it has some kind of music track/remix.

Vault Boy doesn't. Vault Boy is also not even an Indie, as Fallout is owned by Betheseda. Not that it matters, cause it's not Deluxe.

 

[T2by4]

>takes 8-9 months to make a character
>leak is 7 months old

Maybe the July meme is real, but it still feels way too soon.

 

[Firox]

I also think the fact that Min Min was chosen as the ARMS rep is yet again, more evidence that Nintendo And Sakurai listen to the fans. Sure, fans weren't very vocal about having ARMS in Smash, but the fact that they went through with getting the most popular ARMS character that was already a Spirit is proof in of itself that Nintendo And Sakurai wanna please as much fans as possible, even if its a character from a game most people are mixed about.

Also, if Sakurai And Nintendo are willing to upgrade the most popular ARMS character to a character, then I am sure they would do the same thing for Geno, who is one of the most requested characters for Smash

You know, I was thinking about it and came to the exact same conclusion. Consider this: ARMS itself may not have been one of the most highly requested games to get repped, but Min Min herself was undisputedly the most popular character in ARMS. Sakurai deliberately bypassed the two poster children (Springman and Ribbongirl) and went straight for the fan demand. I had my doubts when Fatman said that this pass would be fan service, but given what we've learned today, I really don't see how Geno isn't happening when Sakurai knows damn well how long and how vigorously people have been requesting him. I mean, why go so far out of his way to smash the spirits deconfirm rule? And the spirit battles rule? If this pass really is as fan servicey as it looks, I don't see how we could have it without Geno.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know, I was thinking about it and came to the exact same conclusion. Consider this: ARMS itself may not have been the one of the most highly requested games to get repped, but Min Min herself was undisputedly the most popular character in ARMS. Sakurai deliberately bypassed the two poster children (Springman and Ribbongirl) and went straight for the fan demand. I had my doubts when Fatman said that this pass would be fan service, but given what we've learned today, I really don't see how Geno isn't happening when Sakurai knows damn well how long and how vigorously people have been requesting him. I mean, why go so far out of his way to smash the spirits deconfirm rule? And the spirit battles rule? If this pass really is as fan servicey as it looks, I don't see how we could have it without Geno.

The thing was, it wasn't "fan demand" so much as "requested by the actual creator" who specifically asked Nintendo. Nintendo talked to Sakurai afterwards, and that's how we got Min Min.

This isn't the same thing as ones like King K. Rool or Banjo & Kazooie. This is a request more like Snake, by the creator(or developers/companies/etc.) instead. Sakurai's favorites were Min Min and Ninjara anyway, so it looks more like it happened to also appeal to his tastes.

Also keep in mind a lot of the issues with the fan demand statement is that the only thing really making her sound popular was a tournament, not an actual poll. She's an extremely good character within the game, so she already had a leg up on the competition. She's a fan favorite too, but that isn't what won her the Party Crash Bash(nor was that really relevant to anything in Smash regardless. Since a personal request from the creator due to being their favorite was the specified situation).

 

[Theguy123]

I was thinking what Mii Costumes could come with Geno and after a long thought about some of the rumoured Mii Costumes and missing Mii Costumes I’ve come to the conclusion that the Mii Costumes will be

red shell hat
Chocabo
Caco demon
Mallow
1 premium costume.

It makes sense with all the missing costumes. What else would you include or take out and replace. Opinions people.

 

[axel_]

>takes 8-9 months to make a character
>leak is 7 months old

Maybe the July meme is real, but it still feels way too soon.
View attachment 275782

Given the timing of this, Byleth was done and ready to record the presentation. And they seem to have started Pass 2 work in September 2019, so it's possible that they started early work on Fighter 7 and 8 (let's just say Geno and Doomguy for convenience and because they will happen).

Min Min's presentation was recorded on May 2nd, 2020, so she was ready by then. It's been such a long enough time between November and now that I really think Geno and/or Doomguy was supposed to be revealed at E3 and was supposed to release sooner.

 

[HudU]

Min Min:

 

[Enigma735]

You know, I was thinking about it and came to the exact same conclusion. Consider this: ARMS itself may not have been the one of the most highly requested games to get repped, but Min Min herself was undisputedly the most popular character in ARMS. Sakurai deliberately bypassed the two poster children (Springman and Ribbongirl) and went straight for the fan demand. I had my doubts when Fatman said that this pass would be fan service, but given what we've learned today, I really don't see how Geno isn't happening when Sakurai knows damn well how long and how vigorously people have been requesting him. I mean, why go so far out of his way to smash the spirits deconfirm rule? And the spirit battles rule? If this pass really is as fan servicey as it looks, I don't see how we could have it without Geno.

Exactly! Some people will still say he is too obscure for Smash, but let's be real here, Sakurai is a fan of obscurity himself. If both Sakurai and the thousands of supporters want Geno in Smash, chances are Sakurai WILL try to include him

 

[RedMachine123]

By the way, why the Vault Boy Mii costume deconfirmed Cacomallow?

 

[Firox]

The thing was, it wasn't "fan demand" so much as "requested by the actual creator" who specifically asked Nintendo. Nintendo talked to Sakurai afterwards, and that's how we got Min Min.

This isn't the same thing as ones like King K. Rool or Banjo & Kazooie. This is a request more like Snake, by the creator(or developers/companies/etc.) instead. Sakurai's favorites were Min Min and Ninjara anyway, so it looks more like it happened to also appeal to his tastes.

Also keep in mind a lot of the issues with the fan demand statement is that the only thing really making her sound popular was a tournament, not an actual poll. She's an extremely good character within the game, so she already had a leg up on the competition. She's a fan favorite too, but that isn't what won her the Party Crash Bash(nor was that really relevant to anything in Smash regardless. Since a personal request from the creator due to being their favorite was the specified situation).

Damn, that IS a really good point. Now that you mention it, Sakurai did make it sound like it was the creator that made the suggestion rather than Sakurai himself. Still, we don't know ALL the pieces to the puzzle here. The creator may have suggested Min Min, but we also don't know if there was more to the reason WHY. For example, did the creator suggest Min Min because they knew how much the fans would have wanted her? What about Nintendo itself? They knew Min Min was the most popular as well and could have come to a joint decision with the creator. Bottomline is that we really don't know exactly how the decision arrived where it did, though to your point, I would agree that Min Min wouldn't quite fall into the same "fan service category" as Krool or Banjo. Then again, that doesn't mean Geno can't.

EDIT: Also note that Sakurai seemed to DEFEND the choice of Min Min with his explanation because he probably assumed that many fans would whine about why Springman or Ribbongirl weren't picked. He justified it by saying that he asked the creator who the main character was, to which the creator replied that ALL of them were. Hence, they settled on the most popular which is frankly the most logical choice in such a situation.

 

[HudU]

By the way, why the Vault Boy Mii costume deconfirmed Cacomallow?

I don't think it did, right? Just because its a Bethesda costume? Why can't Bethesda have more costumes?

 

[MisterMike]

By the way, why the Vault Boy Mii costume deconfirmed Cacomallow?

Because apparently if it was real it would've showed up alongside Vault Boy, since the two come from the same company. Never mind the fact that SEGA and Capcom have had two sets of costumes in completely different Mii Costume waves, and never mind the fact that we just got Heihachi on his own separate from the other two Namco costumes that have yet to return.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

By the way, why the Vault Boy Mii costume deconfirmed Cacomallow exactly?

The general opinion is for that is "why would they not show off Cacodemon right away if it's been prepared already for this long". If it wasn't ready for Byleth's presentation, that's one thing. But no way it wasn't ready for Min Min's.

Yes, Cacodemon and Mallow were worked on together. That doesn't mean they must be shown together, though. Betheseda got a costume besides Cacodemon which seems rather suspicious. We already knew multiple months on end can happen, thanks to the Sans costume, so it was fine to wait for CP6. But it's still not out? That's a pretty big red flag by now. It was already a huge red flag by the fact the video wasn't taken down(if not the killing blow regardless) almost immediately, but this hurts it even more.

Damn, that IS a really good point. Now that you mention it, Sakurai did make it sound like it was the creator that made the suggestion rather than Sakurai himself. Still, we don't know ALL the pieces to the puzzle here. The creator may have suggested Min Min, but we also don't know if there was more to the reason WHY. For example, did the creator suggest Min Min because they knew how much the fans would have wanted her? What about Nintendo itself? They knew Min Min was the most popular as well and could have come to a joint decision with the creator. Bottomline is that we really don't know exactly how the decision arrived where it did, though to your point, I would agree that Min Min wouldn't quite fall into the same "fan service category" as Krool or Banjo. Then again, that doesn't mean Geno can't.

That's kind of my point. We shouldn't say "fan demand" actually caused this cause there's no way to know that either. We also can't take the Party Crash Bash seriously since it's not based upon fan demand, but upon tournament winnings. We don't have an official way they've gauged popularity either. For instance, maybe Nintendo used that PCB to specifically made Min Min into an important character for ARMS 2, and that's a part of why they all agreed to do it, but there's no denying that "creator's favorite" was a core reason she got in. His other favorite is Spring Man, to note. Maybe that's why Spring Man was the AT earlier, heh.

 

[QQS]

Geno in Smash is more clear than even life itself. There is no “What if...” now. It’s just a matter of “When...”

I consider myself from the ones that have been frustrated over and over since Melee with the lack of Geno. Each time more intense. Then in Brawl more. And then in Wii U devastated (though half compensated with my other most wanted Mega Man).

Now I have believed in him and put all my bets since day one with the Inkling-Ultimate reveal.

Now after all in the Essay/List and after the Min Min historical victory, Im just sitting and waiting to see that monumental piece of trailer, revival and reveal.

 

[Franco Geno]

Something I want to note that may have been lost in the mix... Joker and Hero are releasing together in the fall.... The next Amiibo wave is September... This Amiibo wave includes the rereleases of Smash Mario, Luigi, and Cloud...

@KCCHIEFS27 , PsychoIncarnate

Brothers, the day we have been working towards for 15 years may soon be upon us.

I may not be able to see the future, but i know for a fact that we're on the right path.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

By the way, why the Vault Boy Mii costume deconfirmed Cacomallow?

Not really, Vault Boy costume only confirms that it was true that talks between Nintendo and Bethesda happened. We don’t know details of those conversations. Its possible Bethesda has suggested Doomguy as a fighter but Nintendo didn’t get interested at all and they develop that Fallout costume instead (and maybe someone more like Cacodemon or an Elder Scrolls character).

 

[pinshadow]

I don't know man, Sakurai saying that the two characters he was considering were Min Min and Ninjara when those two just happen to be the two characters who did the best in the Party Crash is pretty blatant, its not like Ninjara has anything that makes him more fit for Smash than anyone else in the ARMS cast unlike Min Min who has her kicks. Even if it wasn't specifically meant for the Smash character I can't see Sakurai having an actual popularity contest to work with and not going with the winners. Cloud, the Belmonts, Hero's alts, he tends to go for the most popular characters when dealing with franchises without a central protag/rotating cast.

 

[Hinata]

>takes 8-9 months to make a character
>leak is 7 months old

Maybe the July meme is real, but it still feels way too soon.
View attachment 275782

Exactly how long do you think it takes to model a couple of hats? This leak is 7 months old, the hats shown in it look pretty much finished, and yet we're expected to believe they didn't release them with ANY of the three characters that have come out since?

 

[RedMachine123]

Never mind the fact that SEGA and Capcom have had two sets of costumes in completely different Mii Costume waves

Yeah, I was about to point that out.

and never mind the fact that we just got Heihachi on his own separate from the other two Namco costumes that have yet to return.

However, that's a double edged weapon, this means that the Geno Mii costume could come back despite not have been released with the Hero. Hopefully that won't happen, but now I'm very worried about the Geno Mii costume coming back.

I shouldn't have joked about it this morning...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The hats were not finished by the time of Terry. They were blatantly being playtested. There's no way they would've came out by Terry for sure. It was Byleth(which was unlikely, since they'd need to have it recorded within the month in time for Byleth's presentation, since that was in November too) or Min Min at that point. And Min Min didn't have them either. That alone killed it for me(it was completely dead for me even earlier once I understood NDA's and such better, but this is basically overkill).

 

[PatPrime]

The hats were not finished by the time of Terry. They were blatantly being playtested. There's no way they would've came out by Terry for sure. It was Byleth(which was unlikely, since they'd need to have it recorded within the month in time for Byleth's presentation, since that was in November too) or Min Min at that point. And Min Min didn't have them either. That alone killed it for me(it was completely dead for me even earlier once I understood NDA's and such better, but this is basically overkill).

So if you think Cacomallow is not real, what do you think are the chances of more Bethesda costumes or a Bethesda/Zenimax character? Geno doesn't really rely on this "leak" to be likely but what about someone like Doomguy or an Elder Scrolls character?

 

[MattX20]

It's amazing how ARMs revitalized so much hope for so many and not just Geno fans. I'm with Fatman that we might see something in early or late July/August at the absolute latest

 

[Lyncario]

A though about something that may not be good for Geno's chances. Sakurai said that the Arms character that interested him the most was Ninjara, but he picked Min Min instead due to the request of Kosuke Yabuki, and Ninjara ended up as a mii, even if he still liked the idea of Min Min being playable (he even said that she was his second choice). Yeah, kinda similar to Geno's story with Smash, especialy when Nintendo picked the dlc, meaning that once again, it's very possible that Sakurai's first choice would not be the one chosen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So if you think Cacomallow is not real, what do you think are the chances of more Bethesda costumes or a Bethesda/Zenimax character? Geno doesn't really rely on this "leak" to be likely but what about someone like Doomguy or an Elder Scrolls character?

To clarify, I don't think that particular leak is remotely real.

That doesn't mean other costumes can't come, though. But there's a point when I'm skeptical and a point when "it's dead Dave" in my stance.

I could still see a real Cacodemon Hat and a real Doom Slayer costume. Doom Slayer sounds plausible for an actual Deluxe costume. I do think a Mallow costume is highly likely, whether or not that's with a Geno costume(I don't discount him being costumed again, but I do think he's in a very good position now. I was closer to maybe 60/40 before, but 70/30 seems a good number now). Let's hope my prediction isn't off on him being playable like it's been with others lately. >.>;

Now for a funny pattern; every Deluxe Costume has been every other pack. CP6 didn't have one either(Vault Boy isn't Indie, but also didn't come with a song anyway, the killer of that).

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

The hats were not finished by the time of Terry. They were blatantly being playtested. There's no way they would've came out by Terry for sure. It was Byleth(which was unlikely, since they'd need to have it recorded within the month in time for Byleth's presentation, since that was in November too) or Min Min at that point. And Min Min didn't have them either. That alone killed it for me(it was completely dead for me even earlier once I understood NDA's and such better, but this is basically overkill).

New to Smashboards, It's strange why haven't they released those yet, it's been Months since we saw those leaks, and yet nothing, although nothing is proven wrong yet so I'm going 50/50

 

[CannonStreak]

New to Smashboards, It's strange why haven't they released those yet, it's been Months since we saw those leaks, and yet nothing, although nothing is proven wrong yet so I'm going 50/50

Welcome to the forums! Enjoy your stay here!

 

[MisterMike]

Exactly how long do you think it takes to model a couple of hats? This leak is 7 months old, the hats shown in it look pretty much finished, and yet we're expected to believe they didn't release them with ANY of the three characters that have come out since?

Why is it so hard to believe that they would make costumes in bulk before they're released alongside a fighter? Why is it that people believe Mii Costumes are only made right before they're released?

New to Smashboards, It's strange why haven't they released those yet, it's been Months since we saw those leaks, and yet nothing, although nothing is proven wrong yet so I'm going 50/50

Welcome, friend! Complimentary Geno hat for you:

 

[axel_]

Exactly how long do you think it takes to model a couple of hats? This leak is 7 months old, the hats shown in it look pretty much finished, and yet we're expected to believe they didn't release them with ANY of the three characters that have come out since?

Yes, we are. They planned these costumes to come out with specific fighters so they would obviously save it.

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

Welcome to the forums! Enjoy your stay here!

Thanks man, I want Geno, tho if he doesn't get in, I wouldn't be upset, hope he gets in,spirit rule is now dead

 

[Hinata]

Why is it so hard to believe that they would make costumes in bulk before they're released alongside a fighter? Why is it that people believe Mii Costumes are only made right before they're released?

Because what's the point? Mii Costumes aren't some huge timesink, they probably take a couple months to model and slap onto the Mii to make sure nothing clips before they're shipped out. Why would they sit on a couple of inconsequential hats for 7 months? Why would Square and Bethesda be fine with signing off on these just for them to sit in storage for so long?

It's not like the hats in the leak looked clearly unfinished. They look ready to ship out any day now, but they've just been content to let 'em collect dust for almost a year? I ain't buyin' it.