Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

Off the top of my head there's Bandanna Dee, Edelgard from FE: Three Houses, a Gen VIII Pokemon, and Bold Luminary from Dragon Quest XI getting picked over Geno due to that game coming to Switch.

Rex and Spring Man getting kicked to the chopping block is really weird though.

Dee isn't a shill character though. He's a character that's been around since 1996 and one fans genuinely want. Plus, Gen 8 wasn't even in development during the time period along with Three Houses and DQ XI.

 

[paper roxy]

nintendo choosing a dragon quest rep instead of geno is like, marketing suicide. if they know how much fans love geno (which we're sure they do) theres no way in hell they wouldn't pick him

 

[TBone06]

I had an interesting thought earlier...

Looking at the reveals leading up to Ultimate's release, the non-DLC characters being added had a pattern. Inklings, Ridley, and Daisy. A big new IP with 2 of the largest fan requests all in one swoop. It went from there to the 5 in August, King K. Rool, Chrom, and Dark Samus, and the Smash "revival" IP, Castlevania with the Belmonts. Then, towards the end, the big heavy hitters for casual players, Isabelle and Incineroar, with Ken as a final echo slot.

Now from a business standpoint this makes a lot of sense. Initiating the fan picks first gets people excited and talking about the game, spreading the news and showing off what's there and talking about what might come. Saving the more casual gamer/children fan picks for last means they won't have time to forget about the game before it releases. That's what sells Nintendo the most copies of the game-- essentially, getting the hardcore fans interested and talking early, and then making a push towards the end with more casual stuff to sell tons of copies all at once.

Here's the thing... What if DLC character reveals follow that same structure? Looking at what Vergeben is saying, for example, a Square Enix character, a Minecraft character, +3 others. I think this can follow the exact same pattern of reveals as the pre-release information:

1st reveal: Geno, the long time fan favourite
2nd-4th reveal: another fan choice like Banjo Kazooie perhaps, + 2 more, newer IP's (Maybe Elma from Chronicles X or Bandana Dee)
5th reveal: Steve from Minecraft, to appeal to a wider mass of gamers.

Of course this isn't to say there's any -real- evidence for this, it's purely a guess... But boy is it nice that the pieces of the puzzle fit together like that.

I remember I posted this way back, but I was noticing the reveals after Inkling were all done in chronological order. This was after the August 8th Direct. I think it checks out.

Ridley
Simon
K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

Not that I think it means anything, but I just find it funny.

 

[GenoFlash]

Dee isn't a shill character though. He's a character that's been around since 1996 and one fans genuinely want. Plus, Gen 8 wasn't even in development during the time period along with Three Houses and DQ XI.

Gen VIII is in development now and set to be released next year. Like Incineroar during Ultimate's development, they probably have a Pokemon picked out.

nintendo choosing a dragon quest rep instead of geno is like, marketing suicide. if they know how much fans love geno (which we're sure they do) theres no way in hell they wouldn't pick him

I know we're all hardcore Geno fans here but Geno is not more popular than Dragon Quest.

 

[EarlTamm]

I remember I posted this way back, but I was noticing the reveals after Inkling were all done in chronological order. This was after the August 8th Direct. I think it checks out.

Ridley
Simon
K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

Not that I think it means anything, but I just find it funny.

That was a theory that was brought up a bit, but people seemed to kinda forget after a while.

 

[paper roxy]

I remember I posted this way back, but I was noticing the reveals after Inkling were all done in chronological order. This was after the August 8th Direct. I think it checks out.

Ridley
Simon
K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

Not that I think it means anything, but I just find it funny.

itd make sense for geno to be the first dlc character if they intentionally did this and planned on doing it again

 

[paper roxy]

I know we're all hardcore Geno fans here but Geno is not more popular than Dragon Quest.

in the west? no way is dragon quest more popular than geno in the west

 

[Datboigeno]

Personally, this adds to Geno quite a bit, for me.

>Me hearing from a brand ambassador that there are rumblings within NoA that Geno is DLC
>Nintendo tweeting about the SMRG 22nd anniversary months ago
>SMRPG being on the SNES mini

Not to mention, Switch-era Nintendo has been RELATIVELY in touch. All this put together tells me they probably know how much we want Geno, and how much we'd pay.

Did the brand ambassador mention any other SE names at that time? Vergeben did mention that SE had intentionally leaked multiple fake names to discourage an actual leak getting out.

 

[TBone06]

Gen VIII is in development now and set to be released next year. Like Incineroar during Ultimate's development, they probably have a Pokemon picked out.

For the love of God I hope it's the grass evolution if it is.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

nintendo choosing a dragon quest rep instead of geno is like, marketing suicide. if they know how much fans love geno (which we're sure they do) theres no way in hell they wouldn't pick him

This is Nintendo we're talking about, they adore making **** decisions.

 

[paper roxy]

This is Nintendo we're talking about, they adore making **** decisions.

yea, but other than online nothing recently comes to mind with ****ty decisions

 

[Sigran101]

in the west? no way is dragon quest more popular than geno in the west

I think you're really underestimating dragon quest. I'm a huge Geno fan but there's not even a comparison here. Geno is only known among the hardcore Nintendo crowd. Dragon quest is still very big in America.

 

[EarlTamm]

This is Nintendo we're talking about, they adore making **** decisions.

Ever since the Switch began, not really. Sure, the online could have been better handled, but everything else has been fine. I think Nintendo, a world wide company with tons of financial savvy, would realize the flaw in choosing a character that is only popular and well known in Japan.

 

[paper roxy]

I think you're really underestimating dragon quest. I'm a huge Geno fan but there's not even a comparison here. Geno is only known among the hardcore Nintendo crowd. Dragon quest is still very big in America.

a character with a sorta-popular franchise (at least in america) is not at all going to do better dlc wise than the character who's headed polls and ballots since 2006 lol

 

[PolarPanda]

Did the brand ambassador mention any other SE names at that time? Vergeben did mention that SE had intentionally leaked multiple fake names to discourage an actual leak getting out.

No. But this is GOOD news. As Sakurai said today, NINTENDO made the DLC calls, so likely people within Nintendo would be the ones hearing accurate names. Additionally, Verge seemed to imply one of the 7 he heard before was Geno, even going so far as to say 3 recurring names 'made sense' to be in Smash. Honestly, if the name 'Geno' is going around with insiders, it's safe to say Nintendo thinks he's worthy of DLC. He'd make money. Nintendo knows how to make money, lol.

Ever since the Switch began, not really. Sure, the online could have been better handled, but everything else has been fine. I think Nintendo, a world wide company with tons of financial savvy, would realize the flaw in choosing a character that is only popular and well known in Japan.

Indeed, Nintendo has the PREMIER take on DLC right now. Best in the industry, IMO. Nintendo has been listening to us better than ever. They're a gigantic company, they're not as stupid as people think.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

No. But this is GOOD news. As Sakurai said today, NINTENDO made the DLC calls, so likely people within Nintendo would be the ones hearing accurate names. Additionally, Verge seemed to imply one of the 7 he heard before was Geno, even going so far as to say 3 recurring names 'made sense' to be in Smash. Honestly, if the name 'Geno' is going around with insiders, it's safe to say Nintendo thinks he's worthy of DLC. He'd make money. Nintendo knows how to make money, lol.


Indeed, Nintendo has the PREMIER take on DLC right now. Best in the industry, IMO. Nintendo has been listening to us better than ever. They're a gigantic company, they're not as stupid as people think.

Star Allies immediately comes to mind; and that's free lol

 

[Sigran101]

a character with a sorta-popular franchise (at least in america) is not at all going to do better dlc wise than the character who's headed polls and ballots since 2006 lol

I do think Geno would likely do better as dlc than a dragon quest character due to dq not having a defined protagonist, but saying Geno is more popular than dragon quest is objectively false. The only reason Geno would ever outsell a dragon quest character is because of our weird smash Bros. Fandom. It's just this is the kind of thing people make fun of Geno fans for.

 

[TBone06]

I do think Geno would likely do better as dlc than a dragon quest character due to dq not having a defined protagonist, but saying Geno is more popular than dragon quest is objectively false. The only reason Geno would ever outsell a dragon quest character is because of our weird smash Bros. Fandom. It's just this is the kind of thing people make fun of Geno fans for.

This! There is no "Cloud Strife" in Dragon Quest. If I wasn't on these boards, I'd have no idea who Erdrick or Slime were. If you put Geno up against a DQ character, more people will recognize Geno regardless if Dragon Quest is more popular than Mario RPG/Geno or not.

 

[paper roxy]

This! There is no "Cloud Strife" in Dragon Quest. If I wasn't on these boards, I'd have no idea who Erdrick or Slime were. If you put Geno up against a DQ character, more people will recognize Geno regardless if Dragon Quest is more popular than Mario RPG/Geno or not.

i didnt even know dragon quest was a thing for the longest time lol, i thought slime was from fortune street until i was 14

 

[EarlTamm]

This! There is no "Cloud Strife" in Dragon Quest. If I wasn't on these boards, I'd have no idea who Erdrick or Slime were. If you put Geno up against a DQ character, more people will recognize Geno regardless if Dragon Quest is more popular than Mario RPG/Geno or not.

Yeah, there really is no definitive DQ protagonist, and I feel like they would not pull the "mook" card twice in a row.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Sakurai tweeted about the DLC and it looks like the whole 3rd party thing just may be out the window:


https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958663316615168

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958604818657282

Dammit! MashedPotato got there first.

[Laughter Stops]

I'm still holding hope for Geno. I still have trust in Sakurai's bias. :р

 

[TBone06]

[Laughter Stops]

I'm still holding hope for Geno. I still have trust in Sakurai's bias. :р

Realistically too, if Nintendo gave a list (which is kind of what it sounds like happened), and Geno was on it, Sakurai still has some say. This all really changes nothing. We don't know what Nintendo thinks. We know there was talk of Mario RPG back in 2015, we know there was that tweet, we know there is a rumour going around NoA right now involving Geno. People shouldn't jump to conclusions so fast! We have to have some hope. Ride the wave.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Reminder that giving up hope for Geno in the game with DLC chosen in this manner does not mean we're giving up hope for him as a character or support. It just means there is no more optimism for him as a character and at best I'll be super surprised if he appears in this Fighter Pass (And yeah, it's starting to sound more like this is it for passes, and I think assuming the idea of multiple ones is probably folly too.)

Ugh. I just have no hope when it comes to Nintendo proper selecting characters. I'm in no way convinced that they would offer Sakurai interesting choices to work with like I've been hoping. Sakurai is the man who steers this ship for better and for worse, but I at least trust him and his decision making 90% of the time. Nintendo as a whole I trust maybe 50% to not **** things up.

With all of the rumors going around about who might be in DLC wise not sounding super reassuring and Nintendo having more control as a whole than I'd like in DLC, I just have no confidence that the Fighters Pass will bring legitimately interesting non-advertisement characters. I'll still buy them, so I suppose I'm terrible at putting my money where my mouth is in that regard...

And on lovely little old Election Day too...

 

[MattX20]

Again, I seriously doubt we're getting Pokemon Gen 8 reps, DQ XI reps, or FE Three Houses reps. May I remind you that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and ARMS reps didn't make the cut? It's most likely the names for DLC were chosen a year or so in advance, no later than mid 2016. And Geno is a character that has direct ties to Nintendo's flagship series, so I fail to see how Nintendo would turn that idea down especially when Square content is already in.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Realistically too, if Nintendo gave a list (which is kind of what it sounds like happened), and Geno was on it, Sakurai still has some say. This all really changes nothing. We don't know what Nintendo thinks. We know there was talk of Mario RPG back in 2015, we know there was that tweet, we know there is a rumour going around NoA right now involving Geno. People shouldn't jump to conclusions so fast! We have to have some hope. Ride the wave.

Even if Geno wasn't presented on that list or whatever, I think Sakurai would at least mention him. I believe that the talk about him years ago is connected to the development cycle of the game, but maybe people at NoA were just goofing around, no one knows it.

I really think it's Geno's chance to get his playable spot in Smash. It's going to be a damn waste of the DLC slot if he won't make it again, but that doesn't mean I'll stop supporting him. I hope that applies to everyone here.

 

[Sigran101]

Again, I seriously doubt we're getting Pokemon Gen 8 reps, DQ XI reps, or FE Three Houses reps. May I remind you that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and ARMS reps didn't make the cut? It's most likely the names for DLC were chosen a year or so in advance, no later than mid 2016. And Geno is a character that has direct ties to Nintendo's flagship series, so I fail to see how Nintendo would turn that idea down especially when Square content is already in.

Sakurai just tweeted out today that they have just now finalized the dlc choices.

 

[MattX20]

Sakurai just tweeted out today that they have just now finalized the dlc choices.

I think it's a mistranslation. Do you really think Sakurai and the development team would start this late into development and hope to get 5 new characters done by February 2020?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think it's a mistranslation. Do you really think Sakurai and the development team would start this late into development and hope to get 5 new characters done by February 2020?

They had all the Melee and Brawl veterans along with the newcomers done by this year.

I'm sure they have multiple developers working on them.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think it's a mistranslation. Do you really think Sakurai and the development team would start this late into development and hope to get 5 new characters done by February 2020?

Well, they did state in the direct that they would start work on the DLC pack stuff after the game and Piranha Plant is finished.

 

[Datboigeno]

Sakurai just tweeted out today that they have just now finalized the dlc choices.

I feel like the language of that tweet is ambiguous. I took it as "The roster has been finalized" as in "we're not using requests right now so stop tweeting us". The language in the direct also made it sound like while development hadn't started on DLC that DLC had been chosen back during early planning for the game hence the several minute apology to Rex fans while showing off the costume and songs.

 

[bardbowman]

The longer I think about it, the more convinced I am that Nintendo would prefer Geno over any other Square DLC.

- He has a stout fanbase, despite only appearing in one game. They clearly know that he would sell as DLC.

- He's a Mario character, which makes him a Nintendo character in spirit. No other Square character has closer ties to Nintendo directly than Geno. All things equal, Nintendo would prefer giving one of their own a spotlight over another company's character.

- Bringing him into Smash segways very nicely into porting/rebooting/reviving SMRPG, which Nintendo would stand to profit more from than if any other Square character took the slot. (in a longterm sense).

- Sakurai already has licensing rights for Geno in the form of an icon, and still perhaps as a Mii Costume. And don't forget the Beware the Forest's Mushrooms track that played during his reveal in Smash 4. The legal path has been paved. Working with Square over Geno's inclusion as a playable fighter would be far easier than starting from the ground up with a DQ character (and moreso with Sora).

Maybe it's premature of me...But I see this as good news, guys.

(assuming a SE character is still a lock)

 

[CraziiDamon]

I think it's a mistranslation. Do you really think Sakurai and the development team would start this late into development and hope to get 5 new characters done by February 2020?

We are talking about Sakurai here, the same guy who developed Lucas, Roy and Ryu while just announcing Mewtwo and barely Lucas.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

I think it's a mistranslation. Do you really think Sakurai and the development team would start this late into development and hope to get 5 new characters done by February 2020?

>今回は任天堂が全てラインナップを決めてきており、私はそれを作れるかどうかを判断し、企画しています。
>This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.
Literally the same thing. Personally I think it really matches with just turned down negotiation with Cygames that they're done with picking characters. Sakurai is a madman though.

 

[FurretBro]

Sakurai's a magic one.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I hope we get more leak info soon.... I need stuff to chew on until release or confirmation.

 

[Sigran101]

I feel like the language of that tweet is ambiguous. I took it as "The roster has been finalized" as in "we're not using requests right now so stop tweeting us". The language in the direct also made it sound like while development hadn't started on DLC that DLC had been chosen back during early planning for the game hence the several minute apology to Rex fans while showing off the costume and songs.

"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC lineup is now complete". What part of that is ambiguous?

 

[MattX20]

I think Sakurai probably already had Geno in mind from the very beginning. If Vergeben is to be believed, the SE rep will be the first one to show up, and the only one that really makes sense when analyzing every aspect is Geno.

 

[TBone06]

>今回は任天堂が全てラインナップを決めてきており、私はそれを作れるかどうかを判断し、企画しています。
>This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.
Literally the same thing. Personally I think it really matches with just turned down negotiation with Cygames that they're done with picking characters. Sakurai is a madman though.

Do you have a source for this Cygames business?

 

[FurretBro]

We just go got a ton of information but this talk is leaving us all hanging

 

[Laszyking456]

Since Nintendo is calling the shots this time around i expect mainly marketing and promotional characters.

1. Fire emblem three houses rep: To promote the game
2. Slime (Dragon quest) Because both Nintendo and square enix want to make it popular in the west and The recent Dragon quest games is coming to Nintendo switch.
2. Geno (Other option) : Maybe because it isn't listed anymore they are making a new game? Also Geno is highly requested character and they have ties to his game.
3. Katalina (Grandblue): Since Nintendo is co owns Draglia lost from with csygames, they pick one of their characters from their other games out respect or a Sign of their relationship or build together.
4. Bandana Dee: The game is confirmed to be getting DLC and it would go with it especially since Nintendo decided on the dlc.
5. Paper mario? Yeah can't think of anything else that Nintendo would do for marketing or promotional reasons.