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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Franco Geno

Smash Lord
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Funny thing is that I think in terms of my "wanted" characters, Geno has one of the highest chances. The only characters that I rate higher then Geno is Phoenix Wright (40%), Tales of rep (60%), and Sora (but that depends on what day it is). Most of my wanted picks are in the 5-10% range of my personal thoughts of their chances.

I've always been skeptical of the insiders thoughts, just because so much information changes over time. For example, I'm pretty sure that Terry/Joker weren't on Sabi's list of 10, and I doubt we'll end up getting all those 10 either way. I personally will celebrate only when Geno/the other characters I like get added in, and not when insiders say that their "chances look good".
I understand why you would be so skeptical over the insider stuff, things change so much in so little time that it can be frustrating or straight up annoying sometimes both for us and for those with behind the scene knowledge, but still it looks like luck is on our side this time around
 
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YsDisciple

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,242
Ah finally! Just remembered what I had to post before wrapping things up for the day.

Something came to mind regarding Nightmare; it's almost cosmically coincidental that Link was featured as a guest character in Soul Calibur 2; being this the entry in the series where you only had Nightmare in the roster BUT, you could alternate between his corrupted Siegfried, and normal Siegfried skins. If Nightmare joins the SSBU roster, they could give him Siegfried's alt as well, or heck; they could actually go and give him three different skins! (Perhaps 3 for Nightmare, 3 for corrupted Siegfried, and 2 for normal Siegfried). And of course, Nightmare's SC II look would be the one to go with (it being the one used for the Project Soul logo). This iteration of Nightmare is one that is not entirely evil; Siegfried still lives within. Him alone seems also like a reflection to the player's path leading up to the end of WoL. Which side to choose; the side of Light (Galeem / Soul Calibur), or the side of Darkness (Dharkon / Soul Edge)?
 
D

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Funny thing is that I think in terms of my "wanted" characters, Geno has one of the highest chances. The only characters that I rate higher then Geno is Phoenix Wright (40%), Tales of rep (60%), and Sora (but that depends on what day it is). Most of my wanted picks are in the 5-10% range of my personal thoughts of their chances.

I've always been skeptical of the insiders thoughts, just because so much information changes over time. For example, I'm pretty sure that Terry/Joker weren't on Sabi's list of 10, and I doubt we'll end up getting all those 10 either way. I personally will celebrate only when Geno/the other characters I like get added in, and not when insiders say that their "chances look good".
I do hope Geno wasn’t used as misinformation like Steve and Minecraft content.
 

xpnc

Smash Lord
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1,367
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Canada
NNID
RexTurbocool
Switch FC
SW-4209-5138-9019
I do hope Geno wasn’t used as misinformation like Steve and Minecraft content.
Geno would be worthless leakbait because half the leaks have Geno in them anyway
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
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3,197
Why would they be separate, though? If you're negotiating to use a third party IP, why would you need to make separate negotiations for the different ways in which you plan to use them? (ie. Negotiate to use the IP for a playable character, negotiate to use them for an outfit, negotiate to use them for a stage hazard, etc.) That sounds like a licencing nightmare and doesn't make any sense.
It's basic business to have to agree to everything. You can't just license the IP out for one thing and then do something else with it unless you somehow came to an all-encompassing licensing agreement that covers all appearances. Especially in a potential scenario where you have agreed to one thing, but your plans changed, you still have to go back to the license holder and propose a new plan (Mii costume to playable character is a significant difference no matter how you look at it and also has to have a different split of the profits/advertising/etc.). Like, yes, it sounds cumbersome because it is and legal licensing is not a simple thing on purpose. It's meant to protect copyright holders. If you had the rights for Geno as a Spirit, but not a fighter because that's what you negotiated on months ago, turning him into a fighter is actually straight up copyright infringement because you're going beyond the bounds of the original legal agreement. That doesn't necessarily have to be a huge ordeal to make that change depending on the copyright holders involved, but there's still legal paperwork to cover at the very least and drawing up the terms of a new agreement, and you certainly owe the company the courtesy of the formalities of the process if you're trying to use their IP in any capacity.

If you say, "I want Mega Man for a Spirit, Mii Costume, and Fighter" all at once, that's one agreement. But if you only do a Spirit and a Mii costume, you can't make them a fighter later on because that was not covered by the original agreement. The IP holder has to approve any of your intentions for that IP.
Again, that doesn't have to be the most difficult thing in the world, but agreements have to be reached between both parties when such circumstances change. And someone like Square Enix is almost certainly not going to give all encompassing licensing rights to anyone, so yes, Geno would have to be re-negotiated for if they decided to make him a fighter. I can't fathom why people would think anything else.

Did you see the Terry showcase where Sakurai literally told us that it doesn't matter if the character is popular, but is important that they're fun to play as? Because popularity is not a contributing factor. This argument was disconfirmed by the man himself, so I can't fathom how this works against Geno or any other character who is "irrelevant".
Actually, the translation said, "It's more important that a character is fun to play, not just recognizable." That just is kind of a key part of his commentary, because, like, yes, popularity is a contributing factor and it'd be foolish to think otherwise. It's not the only factor or the the most important factor, but you can bet its no coincidence that we've gotten hugely popular characters and franchises in the game. There's a reason we got Cloud and Hero before Geno, and there's a reason almost every major Japanese developed franchise is in Smash Bros. too. Hell, popularity was the point of the ballot to some degree too, so it certainly plays a not insubstantial role in the process.

And this is Sakurai we're talking about, any character he wants can be fun if he sets his mind to it, popular or otherwise. I just don't like people taking this comment to its extreme as some sort of shield from more popular franchises. He made ROB, he made Hero super unique, and he made Terry one of the best newcomers in the game. He's got the passion and imagination to make basically anything fun (and there's a good chance he disagrees with a lot of people on what fun is and which types of fun should be prioritized since he seems considerably more open to most things haha).
 

MissingGlitch

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
3,359
I am on day 4 of trying to breed a shiny Sobble. I feel like I am losing touch with reality. I don't know what's up or whats down. All I know is the egg and route 5.

If I don't get out of this alive. Main Geno for me please.

This is actually hell
 
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Grumbo

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
673
Wasn’t Geno pushed as leakbait for Hero though?
I think at the time of Hero’s release, he was being used as leakbait, but that was before season two was planned. Now I’m guessing that Geno is in, but Sephiroth is the leak bait, since those were the only non-Hero square names that have stuck around, and Sephiroth has popped back up more recently according to Fatman
 

Franco Geno

Smash Lord
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I am on day 4 of trying to breed a shiny Sobble. I feel like I am losing touch with reality. I don't know what's up or whats down. All I know is the egg and route 5.

If I don't get out of this alive. Main Geno for me please.

This is actually hell
Green eggs and Sobble
 

super88cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
400
Switch FC
Sw-1747-1648-3976
Did you see the Terry showcase where Sakurai literally told us that it doesn't matter if the character is popular, but is important that they're fun to play as? Because popularity is not a contributing factor. This argument was disconfirmed by the man himself, so I can't fathom how this works against Geno or any other character who is "irrelevant".

Also just going to voice my support for a Namco character as #5. Vergeben did say that it wasn't, but his Smash record for DLC has been less than stellar, so color me unimpressed when he says something. I think that either way, it'll be a fun character so I'm excited. Plus the timing for a double reveal seems absolutely perfect (even though I totally thought a few days ago that it'd only be one character).

But also Nintendo please let us know beforehand that there will be Smash news at the Game Awards. So many people skip out on them because they're so long. I really want to see some good reactions if Geno is also revealed.
I want to believe that smash could put more many awesome characters, but I have to keep my expectations in check. We got Simon, K Rool , Ridley and Banjo. Geno is the last long wanted-impossible boy, but if he doesn´t show up. It´s alright. I´m thankful for what we got.
 

MissingGlitch

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If I reach 1000 eggs without a shiny, Geno gets added to smash. Those are the rules.
Screenshot_20191203-222240.jpg
 
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SpiritOfRuin

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
737
I am on day 4 of trying to breed a shiny Sobble. I feel like I am losing touch with reality. I don't know what's up or whats down. All I know is the egg and route 5.

If I don't get out of this alive. Main Geno for me please.

This is actually hell
Oh man 4 days is nothing compared to what some shiny projects have put me through but best of luck to ya. I think once I complete my Dex and get my shiny charm I'm going to breed for a shiny Galar corsola in a dream ball.
 

MissingGlitch

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,359
Oh man 4 days is nothing compared to what some shiny projects have put me through but best of luck to ya. I think once I complete my Dex and get my shiny charm I'm going to breed for a shiny Galar corsola in a dream ball.
I am using the shiny charm and the masuda method. Maybe I used all my luck when I was breeding Wooloo. When I get a shiny on my first egg.

EKu6SHfU0AA_ZVT.jpg
 

Dynamic Worlok

Shunted into the bad timeline
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
1,639
I fear page 1900 will hit while I am asleep, so allow me to send you a pre-emptive "happy 1900"
 

MisterMike

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,252
It's basic business to have to agree to everything. You can't just license the IP out for one thing and then do something else with it unless you somehow came to an all-encompassing licensing agreement that covers all appearances. Especially in a potential scenario where you have agreed to one thing, but your plans changed, you still have to go back to the license holder and propose a new plan (Mii costume to playable character is a significant difference no matter how you look at it and also has to have a different split of the profits/advertising/etc.). Like, yes, it sounds cumbersome because it is and legal licensing is not a simple thing on purpose. It's meant to protect copyright holders. If you had the rights for Geno as a Spirit, but not a fighter because that's what you negotiated on months ago, turning him into a fighter is actually straight up copyright infringement because you're going beyond the bounds of the original legal agreement. That doesn't necessarily have to be a huge ordeal to make that change depending on the copyright holders involved, but there's still legal paperwork to cover at the very least and drawing up the terms of a new agreement, and you certainly owe the company the courtesy of the formalities of the process if you're trying to use their IP in any capacity.

If you say, "I want Mega Man for a Spirit, Mii Costume, and Fighter" all at once, that's one agreement. But if you only do a Spirit and a Mii costume, you can't make them a fighter later on because that was not covered by the original agreement. The IP holder has to approve any of your intentions for that IP.
Again, that doesn't have to be the most difficult thing in the world, but agreements have to be reached between both parties when such circumstances change. And someone like Square Enix is almost certainly not going to give all encompassing licensing rights to anyone, so yes, Geno would have to be re-negotiated for if they decided to make him a fighter. I can't fathom why people would think anything else.
Oh okay, that's what you meant. Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you we're saying.
 

ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
I do hope Geno wasn’t used as misinformation like Steve and Minecraft content.
That actually makes zero sense.

Why use the most requested Square Enix character left as leakbait he is both simultaneously the only obvious choice left but also the epitome or fringe and thus even talking about him gives it away?

Actually, the translation said, "It's more important that a character is fun to play, not just recognizable." That just is kind of a key part of his commentary, because, like, yes, popularity is a contributing factor and it'd be foolish to think otherwise. It's not the only factor or the the most important factor, but you can bet its no coincidence that we've gotten hugely popular characters and franchises in the game. There's a reason we got Cloud and Hero before Geno, and there's a reason almost every major Japanese developed franchise is in Smash Bros. too. Hell, popularity was the point of the ballot to some degree too, so it certainly plays a not insubstantial role in the process.

And this is Sakurai we're talking about, any character he wants can be fun if he sets his mind to it, popular or otherwise. I just don't like people taking this comment to its extreme as some sort of shield from more popular franchises. He made ROB, he made Hero super unique, and he made Terry one of the best newcomers in the game. He's got the passion and imagination to make basically anything fun (and there's a good chance he disagrees with a lot of people on what fun is and which types of fun should be prioritized since he seems considerably more open to most things haha).
See, this is the **** that conflicts me.

I see you post something that makes sense, like calling out people hating on Sora because Disney would somehow taint Nintendo or some stupid **** like that.

Then you make posts like this that make sense for a couple of minutes and then I realize that you are focusing on the FUN aspect of that statement rather than the part that matter, which is the part in which Sakurai says that being recognizable is not as major of a factor and proceed to argue that being recognizable is a factor.

It's like the whole statement went over your head, so you grabbed it and bent and folded it into a shape that somewhat resembles what was said but it's like the movie Us and there is clearly something wrong with it and I have to stare and find out what it is. So, let me destroy this real quick.

As I've mentioned before, anything can be fun, and therefore whether or not you had fun should have nothing to do with reviewing anything as you are delivering information about something, not opinion pieces. In Sakurai's case, a character idea needs to be fun overall, from looks to playstyle. Since he's creating something rather than reviewing something, this makes sense: of course focusing on making the game more fun is the best goal to strive towards. When something is 'fun' it means people enjoy it and people spend money on things they enjoy.

However, what you failed to point out is how being recognizable really doesn't factor into any of what you mentioned, but rather it was just that many people liked a certain thing because they enjoyed it...because it was fun.

For the sake of stopping this from being just stupidly condescending, the fact is that there is a different between being recognizable because of any number of reasons and being recognizable because hordes of people enjoyed something. For games, Anthem and Fallout76 are recognizable for being trash-tier games and God of War and Final Fantasy 7 are recognizable for being great games that were enjoyable to the masses...and thus were fun.

Thus, I would argue that a character like Cloud or Hero getting in is less about 'This character is popular' approach, but more of a 'People find this character fun and I can make them play fun' approach. Besides, most of the characters that have gotten into Smash in the past couple years have been the opposite of recognizable but the epitome of fun. In fact, being fun in terms of people loving the character and being fun to play I think is a great thing to focus on, because look at Resident Evil in Ultimate.

They got nothing but spirits, but if you think about it, all they would have offered was a person carrying a bunch of weapons and swapping through them. Master Chief would be the same thing, and it's why I believe we will never get more than a single FPS/TPS character, and I'm convinced it's Doomguy. Sakurai likely seeing that these kind of characters are very limited and have a lot of similarities as well as probably not be fun visually as they come from a dark and drab series and likely not fun to play as it would just be Weapons McGee the character.
 
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MonkeyDLenny

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,559
I wanted to share this with you guys. On a server I was debating with someone about Phoenix Wright and Sora's chances of being in Smash, and it became an Ace Attorney trial


1575435321455.png
 

AceAttorney9000

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
1,881
If somehow a voice clip of the announcer saying Geno got leaked, this thread would get wild.
Yeah, but what if it was just Xander Mobus pulling a prank on us?
I remember reading somewhere that the voice actors for fighting game announcers are usually given a huge list of character names that could potentially be put into the game at some point, and are required to record voice clips of them shouting each and every name, as a "just in case" thing.
 

Franco Geno

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I remember reading somewhere that the voice actors for fighting game announcers are usually given a huge list of character names that could potentially be put into the game at some point, and are required to record voice clips of them shouting each and every name, as a "just in case" thing.
Oh that's interesting
 
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super88cloud

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unnecessarily large image
 
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