Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EarlTamm]

Well, I just took a look at the RTC thread since Geno is next and I wanted to see some predictions and MAN some people there are low balling his chances. Last time they did him he got a chance of 27.31%(Making him the 17th highest rated as of now) and want of 43.75%(Making him the 31st highest). It will be interesting to see how these percentages shift after it is over and done with.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Well, I just took a look at the RTC thread since Geno is next and I wanted to see some predictions and MAN some people there are low balling his chances. Last time they did him he got a chance of 27.31%(Making him the 17th highest rated as of now) and want of 43.75%(Making him the 31st highest). It will be interesting to see how these percentages shift after it is over and done with.

I've noticed most people are either extremely for Geno, or completely against him. There seems to be this perception of him taking a precious slot as a no-name third party character that doesn't deserve a spot in Smash. He's special in comparison to other characters because Square Enix has the rights to him, therefore he is a full on third party...

Never mind his only appearances are in Nintendo and he's practically a second party character like Bayonneta due to his connections with Nintendo. I see that as a lot of the reason people don't want to see him or generally rate him low despite Sakurai's comments and the bigger fan communities behind him. I've also seen the whole he doesn't fit the rest of the characters in Smash, which is also one of the more laughable arguments I see people bring up, more because there's so much diversity to Smash that they can add basically anyone and with the work Sakurai does, they will look right in Smash.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

I think Geno would get a trailer, but it wouldn't be as lengthy/detailed as Ridley's.

I predict a short, mostly dark trailer, with the seven stars from SMRPG aligning in the sky, shooting down a beam into a limp, silhouetted figure. The figure would stand up and be revealed as Geno, with the tagline going something like "The Stars Have Aligned For Geno!"

Like the tag line!

 

[TBone06]

I've noticed most people are either extremely for Geno, or completely against him. There seems to be this perception of him taking a precious slot as a no-name third party character that doesn't deserve a spot in Smash. He's special in comparison to other characters because Square Enix has the rights to him, therefore he is a full on third party...

Never mind his only appearances are in Nintendo and he's practically a second party character like Bayonneta due to his connections with Nintendo. I see that as a lot of the reason people don't want to see him or generally rate him low despite Sakurai's comments and the bigger fan communities behind him. I've also seen the whole he doesn't fit the rest of the characters in Smash, which is also one of the more laughable arguments I see people bring up, more because there's so much diversity to Smash that they can add basically anyone and with the work Sakurai does, they will look right in Smash.

It totally is laughable. When Snake was first revealed, he stuck out like a sore thumb, but they made it work and now he was brought back by popular demand. I don't even see how he doesn't fit the rest of the characters, but I find a lot of times people will make up excuses to root against Geno.

Well, I just took a look at the RTC thread since Geno is next and I wanted to see some predictions and MAN some people there are low balling his chances. Last time they did him he got a chance of 27.31%(Making him the 17th highest rated as of now) and want of 43.75%(Making him the 31st highest). It will be interesting to see how these percentages shift after it is over and done with.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was done well before E3. I'm sure the ratings will be higher this time around as there was uncertainty about whether Cloud/Square would be included. To me, the inclusion of Cloud and Ridley greatly boost his chances whether it makes sense or not. I'm actually surprised how many people have him in their predictions. Seems like it was way more now than in the Brawl days.

 

[EarlTamm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was done well before E3. I'm sure the ratings will be higher this time around as there was uncertainty about whether Cloud/Square would be included. To me, the inclusion of Cloud and Ridley greatly boost his chances whether it makes sense or not. I'm actually surprised how many people have him in their predictions. Seems like it was way more now than in the Brawl days.

I know, I was just bringing up for sake of wondering how the percentages will chance post E3. His popularity as a prediction is starting to heighten due to the perceived nature of character selection(That being based on popularity and the ballot, which we know he did at least well enough to earn a costume, based on Sakurais statement) this time around, as well as a lot of other prominent choices being kicked to the curb after E3's AT slaughter and the idea of limited newcomers.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The problem with Geno is RTC no one is going to give Geno a 100%, while others WILL give Geno 0%

And the reasonable people will give him 40-60%

The 0%'ers with make his average score REALLY low unless people falsely give him 100%

 

[DjinnandTonic]

Well... I mean... that's how averages work. Not just for Geno. If you're looking at the average scores and think that 0% is a totally unreasonable number, then just mentally adjust all the scores up by like 10%. The relative difference doesn't really change.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well... I mean... that's how averages work. Not just for Geno. If you're looking at the average scores and think that 0% is a totally unreasonable number, then just mentally adjust all the scores up by like 10%. The relative difference doesn't really change.

I don't understand what you're trying to say but I also don't think you get my point.

There could be a big difference in %'s of 10% vs 0% depending on what numbers are being averaged together.

100/20 = 5 (1 vote of 100, 19 votes of 0)
290/20 = 14.5 (1 vote of 100, 19 votes of 10)

10% is a big difference as well. In school it could make the difference between going to a good school or a mediocre school.

 

[DjinnandTonic]

Well, I think it has more to do with what you think RTC measures. If you think the aggregate score represents a character's actual chances of being in the next smash, you're going to be disappointed. What it actually ends up measuring are people's opinions. And if people think there's a 0% chance of someone showing up in Smash 5, then their opinion is valid and deserves to be included in the aggregate.

This is true for Geno and for every character rated. Other characters have to deal with people who think 0%, too. Since this is calculated the same way for every character, the relative difference in opinion in preserved. By suggesting that people vote 100% to offset 0% predictions, you're actually tainting the data more than simply accepting that people will predict what they actually think (even if they are uninformed, but at least then you get a measurement of what the general consensus's impression of his chances are).

 

[Sigran101]

I have always been meh about Geno because I never played Mario rpg but I got it yesterday on Wii u virtual console and played up until toadstool joined the party and now I FREAKING LOVE GENO!

I always thought he was likely for smash ultimate because of the interviews, Mii costume, and cloud, even when I could not have given less of a crap about him.

I've since lowered my expectations from the 80% they were at to 60% now for no other reason than that I don't want to be too disappointed if he doesn't get in.

Ridley was my most wanted since brawl and I didn't really know what to speculate about once he got in because I wasn't passionate about any other reasonable characters, but Geno is definitely the new Ridley for me. Sign me up for that supporter list please!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, I think it has more to do with what you think RTC measures. If you think the aggregate score represents a character's actual chances of being in the next smash, you're going to be disappointed. What it actually ends up measuring are people's opinions. And if people think there's a 0% chance of someone showing up in Smash 5, then their opinion is valid and deserves to be included in the aggregate.

This is true for Geno and for every character rated. Other characters have to deal with people who think 0%, too. Since this is calculated the same way for every character, the relative difference in opinion in preserved. By suggesting that people vote 100% to offset 0% predictions, you're actually tainting the data more than simply accepting that people will predict what they actually think (even if they are uninformed, but at least then you get a measurement of what the general consensus's impression of his chances are).

I was just explaining why Geno won't get that high of chance in RTC, I wasn't telling people to cheat

 

[DjinnandTonic]

I was just explaining why Geno won't get that high of chance in RTC, I wasn't telling people to cheat

Oh, indeed. It does seem like I interpreted your discontent with the voting situation as a call to change people's minds, when you were merely complaining about the situation. Sorry for implying that you wanted people to vote unfairly.

Still, I don't think you need to be worried about it. Since really, it's not just Geno that gets 0% chance votes. And I don't think any newcomers not named Inkling have gotten any 100% chance votes. So it'll even out.

 

[FunAtParties]

Some people in RTC are extremely confident in their pessimism. I don't get how anything that's been in a Nintendo game, highly popular, mentioned by Sakurai specifically, and had a mii costume could be rated 0%

 

[L2 Sentinel]

Why do we care what Geno's RTC score is? Let the doubters doubt. It's not like it influences his chances of making it into the game.

 

[Zema]

One of these days.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I've been thinking about how Geno Boost could be implemented as a special. It could be either a bunch of arrows carrying Geno into the air, or a simpler stat boost mechanic that briefly increases his jumping ability. What do you folks think about it?

 

[Zema]

I've been thinking about how Geno Boost could be implemented as a special. It could be either a bunch of arrows carrying Geno into the air, or a simpler stat boost mechanic that briefly increases his jumping ability. What do you folks think about it?

I always saw a potential Geno moveset having Geno Boost as his Up-B, perhaps providing stronger knockback on his next attack as well. I don't know how you would implement timed hits for it, though, and I don't think every move in his moveset should be a timed hit either honestly. His Side-B would be Geno Whirl, and his Down B would be Geno Blast. Neutral B would clearly be Geno Beam and should feature a timed hit mechanic like it did in the original game.

As for his Final Smash? Geno Flash is the most obvious choice, though I sometimes wonder if switching Geno Blast and Geno Flash would be better, having Geno get shot out of his cannon on his down B and bombarding the stage for his Final Smash instead. I think I'd be content either way.

His smash attacks would all be the weapons you find for him in the game.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

View attachment 150331

One of these days.

Wow. I feel the same way. Just waiting....

 

[Diem]

I haven't played Super Mario RPG (yet, I have my SNES Classic and I'll get to it eventually), but I've seen people want Geno in Smash since before Brawl, so I know he's one of the biggest and longest requests next to Daisy and Ridley. I would like to see him, especially so that that request gets fulfilled at last, and because we've seen Mega Man, Cloud, Daisy, and Ridley all finally show up, Geno seems very likely. Definitely above 50% in my books.

As for his third party status, I said this in the Newcomer Speculation Discussion, which is my reasoning as to why classifying Geno and some other characters as third party in the same way as Snake and Cloud is a bit disingenuous:

"I consider Simon Belmont, Geno, and maybe Banjo Kazooie "soft 3rd party characters." That is, they aren't owned by Nintendo, but they exist exclusively or almost exclusively on Nintendo consoles. In contrast to what you might call "hard 3rd party characters" like Cloud and Snake, both of whom are more tied to the Playstation and have little to do with Nintendo.

...

Geno's even more extreme in that regard, only appearing in an SNES Mario spinoff and nothing else besides a tiny cameo in the original Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, as well as the Mii Costume in Smash 4. And as I said, I believe that the Mii Costume is a sign that the demand for the character is acknowledged, but of the two Square characters, Cloud was the priority, for obvious reasons. Now that Cloud is done and returning, Geno's time to shine is now."

 

[Takasmash]

So wait do Nintendo own Geno or Square why will Geno appear as a cameo in Superstar Saga.

 

[Diem]

So wait do Nintendo own Geno or Square why will Geno appear as a cameo in Superstar Saga.

From what I understand, Square owns all non-preexisting characters in Super Mario RPG, such as Geno, Mallow, etc. As for why Geno showed up in Superstar Saga, who knows, maybe it was an authorized cameo, or maybe it was unauthorized and Nintendo got away with it. Geno doesn't show up in that game's remake from last year, though.

Which is why the fact that Square is still collaborating with Nintendo on Smash Ultimate makes me believe that Geno will show up. The only way Nintendo/Sakurai can get to him is through Square, and if Square is letting them use Cloud of all characters, Geno is 100% possible, should Sakurai have decided to include him at long last.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Check out this beautiful artwork:

Drew this up for my mans Geno. Its his turn Sakurai.#SmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/fDI7I7Av47

— JAGE (Commissions Open) (@JageRage7) June 26, 2018

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

From what I understand, Square owns all non-preexisting characters in Super Mario RPG, such as Geno, Mallow, etc. As for why Geno showed up in Superstar Saga, who knows, maybe it was an authorized cameo, or maybe it was unauthorized and Nintendo got away with it. Geno doesn't show up in that game's remake from last year, though.

Which is why the fact that Square is still collaborating with Nintendo on Smash Ultimate makes me believe that Geno will show up. The only way Nintendo/Sakurai can get to him is through Square, and if Square is letting them use Cloud of all characters, Geno is 100% possible, should Sakurai have decided to include him at long last.

From what I understand/recall, AlphaDream was formed out of ex-SMRPG staff, so they sneaked him in a bit part.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Thought it would be interesting but it's part two of sakurai interview on smash ultimate

https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-talks-development-of-smash-bros-ultimate-future-and-more/
I'm posting because it's probably another sign that the game is focusing on the fans

Sakurai also saids this might be the last smash for a long time (before 6 or reboot of series)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Thought it would be interesting but it's part two of sakurai interview on smash ultimate

https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-talks-development-of-smash-bros-ultimate-future-and-more/
I'm posting because it's probably another sign that the game is focusing on the fans

Sakurai also saids this might be the last smash for a long time (before 6 or reboot of series)

Seems fair to me, this game is being put out relatively early in the Switch's timespan. Historically, every Smash installment only gets one iteration per major console (barring the VC rerelease for 64).

 

[Houndstooth]

Personally, I like the idea of Geno using the Starman as his logo. I think it acknowledges his status as both a Mario character and something a bit different. Just feels right.

So, if Geno does make it in, does this hurt the chances of other Mario characters? Also, if a Mario character is revealed, does that hurt Geno's chances?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Personally, I like the idea of Geno using the Starman as his logo. I think it acknowledges his status as both a Mario character and something a bit different. Just feels right.

So, if Geno does make it in, does this hurt the chances of other Mario characters? Also, if a Mario character is revealed, does that hurt Geno's chances?

Probably not really (unless the slots are limited). Daisy showing up proves that the Mario pool isn't just limited to the main games now.

As for the second question, it might, unless said character gets to show up alongside him in the same game ala Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Personally, I like the idea of Geno using the Starman as his logo. I think it acknowledges his status as both a Mario character and something a bit different. Just feels right.

So, if Geno does make it in, does this hurt the chances of other Mario characters? Also, if a Mario character is revealed, does that hurt Geno's chances?

I think people would perceive or feel like it does, but I don't think it actually would.

 

[Pyra]

Geno's symbol in the game is just a regular Star, but I think the Starman would be more visually appealing

However, I suspect he'd just get the Mario Mushroom Icon

I'd hope he'd get his own icon just because he's from a "special case" Mario game.
Like, in my head, he's hardly representative of the Mario franchise, just of Super Mario RPG

That said, I would play a game centered around Geno...

 

[DjinnandTonic]

I hope if Geno gets in, his reveal trailer will look a lot like the opening to Smash 64, with the hand pulling dolls out of a toy chest instead of trophies. When he pulls out one of Geno and sets him down to play, a Star comes over and brings him to life, then smashcut to 'Geno joins the battle!' or whatever his tagline would be.

 

[MattX20]

My thought for how Geno is revealed is thus:
The Pokemon Trainer and Mario are walking in the forest being silently stalked by a winged figure in the shadows. The figure stops, opens its wings and prepares to launch an arrow at them, and then the arrow flies and barely misses them, the figure then revealing itself to be Decidueye. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard all put up a valiant effort to hold him back, but are unable to, and just when Mario and the Trainer are about to get hit by the arrows, a disc of energy flies by at high velocity knocking them back and catching Decidueye off guard. Then, a sillouhette appears and leaps out of the shadows, and it turns out to be Geno aiding them in their time of need. Insert gameplay footage of both after that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I kind of wonder if the Geno and K Rool costumes were based on models they created for Smash 4 but never happened.

I know at least the Birdman costume was based on the models for the birdman which ended up not being used in the game due to 3DS limitations.

Geno's costume does have a slight redesign of the character for it

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Always was intrigued by Geno after our first introduction.

Add me to the support list.

 

[Wambo]

We need to get some more support on this thread. Regardless of what people say about his chances now, we need to PUSH for Geno to get in Smash this time. Hell, the fact that Sakurai wanted Geno in Brawl, and the fact that he was a Mii costume in 4? If he doesn't make it in this time because fan demand dropped off, I'm gonna be so disappointed in all the people who once supported him not being vocal enough this time around.

I know there's only 6-ish months left of development, but DLC.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

We need to get some more support on this thread. Regardless of what people say about his chances now, we need to PUSH for Geno to get in Smash this time. Hell, the fact that Sakurai wanted Geno in Brawl, and the fact that he was a Mii costume in 4? If he doesn't make it in this time because fan demand dropped off, I'm gonna be so disappointed in all the people who once supported him not being vocal enough this time around.

I know there's only 6-ish months left of development, but DLC.

Well lets start some discussion.

What pose should Geno have on the character select screen?

 

[EarlTamm]

What pose should Geno have on the character select screen?

His hand out pose. I think Smashified used that pose, but Smash Ultimate could make it with much more motion, like how they did all the other art.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That one courteous bow when he wins in SMRPG. Either that, or him about to pop off his hand for an attack.

 

[EarlTamm]

That one courteous bow when he wins in SMRPG. Either that, or him about to pop off his hand for an attack.

I think it might be difficult to convey in his art, but it would make an excellent taunt and/or victory animation.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Also a call back to when James Bond was considered a viable character. Which was the same poll that showed Geno was popular

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Also a call back to when James Bond was considered a viable character. Which was the same poll that showed Geno was popular

Now I can't stop thinking about Geno dressed up as a suave agent.