Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Mudkip97]

Has Sabi ever talked about or mentioned again about the Lloyd Irving leaker she talked about back in January? The one she said she wasn't too sure if credible or not.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Has Sabi ever talked about or mentioned again about the Lloyd Irving leaker she talked about back in January? The one she said she wasn't too sure if credible or not.

I thought she had a gag order put on her by Nintendo.

 

[Mudkip97]

I thought she had a gag order put on her by Nintendo.

Where did you hear that?

 

[UberMadman]

I really doubt it would be Capcom. They already got costumes with Banjo, so I assumes that rules them out for this pass.

Amaterasu was just my example of “decently popular character that would fit Smash well that people aren’t championing as likely right now”. You can swap her out with someone else that meets that criteria and my point still applies.

 

[Mudkip97]

Amaterasu was just my example of “decently popular character that would fit Smash well that people aren’t championing as likely right now”. You can swap her out with someone else that meets that criteria and my point still applies.

Of all Capcom characters remaining I think that Dante is the most likely. Almost all other characters they have are either from very small series where some are forgotten like Viewtiful Joe and Arthur. There's also Resident Evil Evil characters and Phoenix Wright, but I think adding them in Smash wouldn't represent them well with how limited they are to movesets (yes I know PW was in a fighting game but I'm talking about actually something related to his series).

 

[AdamBel731]

After the Fighters Pass is done, I could honestly see a Capcom character being added. I think a Resident Evil character makes the most sense, but Dante and Pheonix Wright have a possibility too.

My only issue is that while I do think a Resident Evil character "deserves" to be in Smash and is likely (despite me not being someone who has played the games, I just know their impact), I can't think of an interesting moveset. And the music I've heard from the games seems more somber and atmospheric than something that would work in Smash.

I'm not saying no moveset could be made (I mean Duck Hunt and R.O.B. are characters after all), and maybe I'm being ignorant, but I haven't ever really seen the most interesting movesets for a Resident Evil character (which btw I figure would be Leon, rather than Jill). But they seem like characters that would be more loved in terms of their presence in the game, rather than their moveset. Also, I realize Pikmin music is in the game, so things could always work.

Again, I have no real experience with Resident Evil, but they are pretty likely I'd say (or any Capcom character for that matter).

 

[Mudkip97]

The issue with resident Evil is that the only thing they would use are guns and basic punches/kicks. Also the guns are actual guns that are attached to real human looking characters. And yeah adding any sort of stage and music with one would be challenging. I personally don't see any sort of Resident Evil Character getting in.

 

[kiteinthesky]

The issue with resident Evil is that the only thing they would use are guns and basic punches/kicks. Also the guns are actual guns that are attached to real human looking characters. And yeah adding any sort of stage and music with one would be challenging. I personally don't see any sort of Resident Evil Character getting in.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 actually handled the issue quite well in that Jill's specials involved summoning zombies and crows and the like.

I'm not sure how well that would translate to Smash, but the point is that it is possible to get RE characters to work in fighting games.

 

[Mudkip97]

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 actually handled the issue quite well in that Jill's specials involved summoning zombies and crows and the like.

I'm not sure how well that would translate to Smash, but the point is that it is possible to get RE characters to work in fighting games.

But again that doesn't represent the series, that only represents who they were in Marvel vs Capcom.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

The issue with resident Evil is that the only thing they would use are guns and basic punches/kicks. Also the guns are actual guns that are attached to real human looking characters. And yeah adding any sort of stage and music with one would be challenging. I personally don't see any sort of Resident Evil Character getting in.

Joker killed this issue. He used a special called Gun that looks like the real thing and is literally still capable of killing people (It has to be in the meta verse, but people can still actually straight up die in real life, sooooo...). Hell, he’s even technically underage at that.

Stages are pretty easy TBH. You could just do Racoon City and cover a ton of ground with one of Resident Evil’s most well known locations that also had great narrative importance. And plenty of music exists across the RE games to implement.

Also, they use a lot of different tools and weapons in the RE games, so you could use those basically in a moveset heavy on resource management (like Banjo & Kazooie’s Wonderwing, but applied across a character with tweaks) to make them super interesting and unique despite “just punching and shooting.”

Resident Evil is in a kind of great place regarding Smash i think, especially as another long running beloved franchise that is literally the biggest Japanese IP not already in Smash by a wide margin.

 

[Qeomash]

Where did you hear that?

Just before E3, Sabi received a cease and desist letter from Nintendo related to any news from them.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I would want Amaterasu for Capcom just because I want to see how Sakurai would handle the beautiful style Okami is known for.

 

[Ovaltine]

All I have to say in regards to RE is that I'd be surprised if, by the end of Ultimate's DLC cycle, we didn't see anything from the series, even if only Mii costumes. That'd, uh... really floor me.

 

[Mudkip97]

Joker killed this issue. He used a special called Gun that looks like the real thing and is literally still capable of killing people (It has to be in the meta verse, but people can still actually straight up die in real life, sooooo...). Hell, he’s even technically underage at that.

Stages are pretty easy TBH. You could just do Racoon City and cover a ton of ground with one of Resident Evil’s most well known locations that also had great narrative importance. And plenty of music exists across the RE games to implement.

Also, they use a lot of different tools and weapons in the RE games, so you could use those basically in a moveset heavy on resource management (like Banjo & Kazooie’s Wonderwing, but applied across a character with tweaks) to make them super interesting and unique despite “just punching and shooting.”

Resident Evil is in a kind of great place regarding Smash i think, especially as another long running beloved franchise that is literally the biggest Japanese IP not already in Smash by a wide margin.

I have to disagree on the gun thing. It technically isn't a real for Joker. And having "generic" looking human wielding actual Hand Guns is really going to be hard.

Just before E3, Sabi received a cease and desist letter from Nintendo related to any news from them.

Yeah I know that but what does that correlate with Sabi trying to making herself look less credible in January?
And how can you be sure that she was lying or making up about it?

 

[AdamBel731]

What about you @Serenade01
You usually are quite opinionated with fighters. How do you feel about the likelihood of another Capcom character as DLC? Are you okay with it? Do you consider a Resident Evil chatacter viable?

(I'm just genuinely interested since you seem to usually have quite the opinions on new fighters!)

 

[Mudkip97]

Personally I consider the 3 most likely Smash characters that could be added are Ryu Hayabusa, Doom Guy and Lloyd Irving.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I have to disagree on the gun thing. It technically isn't a real for Joker. And having "generic" looking human wielding actual Hand Guns is really going to be hard.

Again, it’s literally explained to be so life like in game that Joker could get in trouble for having it and it has the ability to kill people in the Metaverse in Persona 5. Not just their cognitions, but the people themselves can physically die in real life.

Bayonetta also uses her guns really damn frequently and she comes from an “even more problematic” game to begin with.

Like I feel like the no guns goalpost has been moved absurdly far back at this point. Joker looks about as “generic” as anybody from Resident Evil (which is to say none of them really are, just human characters with fairly interesting designs and traits IMO), so I do not see the issue here and kind of find it funny the Smash community is still trying to enforce this particular rule.

 

[Mudkip97]

Again, it’s literally explained to be so life like in game that Joker could get in trouble for having it and it has the ability to kill people in the Metaverse in Persona 5. Not just their cognitions, but the people themselves can physically die in real life.

Bayonetta also uses her guns really damn frequently and she comes from an “even more problematic” game to begin with.

Like I feel like the no guns goalpost has been moved absurdly far back at this point. Joker looks about as “generic” as anybody from Resident Evil (which is to say none of them really are, just human characters with fairly interesting designs and traits IMO), so I do not see the issue here and kind of find it funny the Smash community is still trying to enforce this particular rule.

You need to look no further than Snake. He has no guns when it's probably the most common weapon he uses in any Metal Gear game. He doesn't even use any army knives.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

You need to look no further than Snake. He has no guns when it's probably the most common weapon he uses in any Metal Gear game. He doesn't even use any army knives.

And was introduced in Brawl when this was clearly more of an issue and has since been grandfathered in because Sakurai is adverse to changing movesets of veterans too dramatically (one of his grabs is also literally choking someone out, so ya know).

Things have changed substantially since then, Bayonetta and Joker prove we have less draconian restrictions on Smash nowadays.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't think Joker's gun not being real in P5 matters much.

I think they even added a detail to it that wasn't in P5, a detail that makes it match the real pistol it's based off of. Smash doesn't ever mention that it's technically not a real gun, either; and if it looks like a real gun, and works like a real gun, I'm sure the rating boards are gonna say "it's a gun." You could also say guns are kind-of comical when there's no blood and they're in a game like Smash with its current art-style and mish-mashing of different kinds of designs and even other art-styles.

 

[Mudkip97]

And was introduced in Brawl when this was clearly more of an issue and has since been grandfathered in because Sakurai is adverse to changing movesets of veterans too dramatically (one of his grabs is also literally choking someone out, so ya know).

Things have changed substantially since then, Bayonetta and Joker prove we have less draconian restrictions on Smash nowadays.

Not really. Otherwise Sakurai would have added more to Snake. Returning characters all had tweaks. Snake remained mostly unchanged.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

A number of series represented in Smash already had short-lived popularity without ever becoming phenomena the way Fortnite or even Overwatch have (although this admittedly applies mainly to the first party franchises).

Such as?

 

[Looma]

Nothing in Smash makes it explicitly clear that Joker's gun is fake. It is for all intents and purposes, a real pistol that fires real bullets. This is inarguable, the average moral guardian probably isn't familiar with Persona lore and IT'S CALLED GUN.

Also, many Metal Gear spirits (including Solid Snake's own fighter spirit I might add) ARE clearly depicted with actual real guns that ARE real AND deadly in Metal Gear lore.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Yooo, let's go 1500 pages!! That's so much for a support thread! :D Let's get to 2000 now!

 

[Grumbo]

I honestly do think a Capcom character is guaranteed, as long as we get a decent amount of extra dlc or another pass. Who it would be I’m not sure. Right now top candidate are Jill/Leon, Phoenix Wright, Monster Hunter, and Dante with Amaterasu and Viewtiful Joe to a lesser extent.
On the issue of guns, if there further dlc is separate, I think it would be possible to get it rated T. The problem lies in the rating For Ultimate 2 or a complete edition.

 

[Deleted member]

What about you @Serenade01
You usually are quite opinionated with fighters. How do you feel about the likelihood of another Capcom character as DLC? Are you okay with it? Do you consider a Resident Evil chatacter viable?

(I'm just genuinely interested since you seem to usually have quite the opinions on new fighters!)

I think I'm honored to be so memorable... Capcom has some of my favorite characters so there's some that I'm genuinely interested in seeing. Hey, Mega Man.EXE doesn't have his Mii Costume and that'd be the best case scenario to me, regardless of the fact that a lot of people would be angry that we got "another Mega Man".

As far as Resident Evil is concerned, I've never played it. It's another franchise that I think would be hard to represent in Smash, not because of "muh realistic guns" which I think is a weak excuse, even ignoring Joker, it's just that I can't really think of a Sakurai tier moveset for the character. I could see a mii costume or two. If Capcom gets another character, I think it'll be someone like Arthur, Viewtiful Joe, or maybe Phoenix Wright. Someone with a lot of history with Nintendo and the potential for a unique gimmick.

Such as?

Star Fox, Mother, Duck Hunt, Pikmin. Heck, I'd argue Mega Man, Donkey Kong, and Metroid aren't as popular as they should be. Nowhere near the level of Fortnite's adoption with the younger generation, for sure.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

After the Fighters Pass is done, I could honestly see a Capcom character being added. I think a Resident Evil character makes the most sense, but Dante and Pheonix Wright have a possibility too.

My only issue is that while I do think a Resident Evil character "deserves" to be in Smash and is likely (despite me not being someone who has played the games, I just know their impact), I can't think of an interesting moveset. And the music I've heard from the games seems more somber and atmospheric than something that would work in Smash.

I'm not saying no moveset could be made (I mean Duck Hunt and R.O.B. are characters after all), and maybe I'm being ignorant, but I haven't ever really seen the most interesting movesets for a Resident Evil character (which btw I figure would be Leon, rather than Jill). But they seem like characters that would be more loved in terms of their presence in the game, rather than their moveset. Also, I realize Pikmin music is in the game, so things could always work.

Again, I have no real experience with Resident Evil, but they are pretty likely I'd say (or any Capcom character for that matter).

Yeah I agree with this. I feel like Phoenix and Dante both actually have a lot of fun moveset potential where a RE rep has to get a little more creative (not that a Phoenix moveset wouldn't be creative but the plethora of very good fan-made movesets for him shows the variety he can offer in a Smash moveset). This is why I want Wesker from RE because he has a lot more to offer moveset-wise, but I know that he won't be the character they would go for.

However, EricTheGamerman brings up a good point (as usual) that a resource management mechanic could really help differentiate a RE rep and the various tools and weapons from the games could be integrated in their kit pretty easily. It's not that there's not enough for a varied moveset with some unique mechanics it's just that, compared to other Capcom characters, a RE rep is lacking more in the moveset department generally. Personally, I want Phoenix or Wesker and I know Wesker won't happen. I don't know much about Ace Attorney but Phoenix is exactly the wacky kind of character that would allow me to accept another human male in the roster without batting an eye. Also, I just want a neutral B like Little Mac's where when it's ready Phoenix can just point and shout "Objection!" and the jagged text bubble basically is a guaranteed KO. Don't care if it's broken or not, I just need it.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Such as?

Fortnite is a multiplayer/service game so none of the comparisons I could make are 1:1, but Ice Climbers, Earthbound, Wii Fit, Kid Icarus, ROB, Splatoon and Xenoblade were all series that, at the time of their inclusion, only had one notably successful/internationally released game in their series- if that. Nobody was asking “what if their popularity doesn’t last?” because they were 1) already in the game and 2) Nintendo-owned franchises.

Like I said, there are no real 1:1 examples here and I’m not attempting to validate Fortnite or Overwatch as choices. I was just criticizing the notion that a game with 10 million+ concurrent players is too untested for Smash, while a mid-tier indie series that needed its 4th game crowdfunded has a legacy that makes it totally worthy.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Not really. Otherwise Sakurai would have added more to Snake. Returning characters all had tweaks. Snake remained mostly unchanged.

Or maybe because Snake was a beloved veteran who was returning after being cut, Sakurai didn't want to change a moveset that people may have previously liked too much? Yes, tons of characters got tweaks... very few of them got overhauls. As it stands, the main ones was really Ganondorf for obvious reasons and it was limited to Smash attacks. Snake, on the other hand, would require substantially more work since his entire kit sort of relies on explosives. The Nikita missile, grenades, and C4 define a massive part of how Snake works and what exactly his zoning capabilities are. The only comparable thing would maybe be that Nikita missile, and it's a pretty iconic part of Snake's moveset from Brawl to be honest in addition to a rather unique tool. It's just not easy to implement a gun into many places in his moveset without changing a ton about him in the process. Like, Project M's Snake uses a tranquilizer gun that completely changes how Snake really ends up playing, so that's a decision you really have to be intentional about (Project M does other things with Snake too, but my point still stands) and decide to make those abundant changes that will result in Snake largely being a different fighter from the original one (plus, his explosive traps are a rather specific niche that Smash Bros. doesn't really have outside of Snake to begin with).

And that's without even pointing out the absurdity of Snake being able to use a ****ing missile launcher (which is just a really big, really destructive projectile launching machine, same concept as a gun for all intensive purposes) in addition to C4, Hand Grenades, and CQC designed to kill people. In addition to having an ancient witch that literally uses her sexual appeal as a weapon and puts angels in a trap, slaps their ass, and beheads them with the guillotine on the trap in her original games using guns and summoning literal demons of hell in Smash, and then a character who uses 1:1 weapon models that are indistinguishable at a glance from the real thing (This is a plot point in Persona 5 for crying out loud that explains why guns work in the Metaverse and also something you go more into detail via one of the game's social links). Joker's standard B-special in Smash is just called Gun.

It's just, we've really moved passed limiting character options based upon the content they're associated with and the weapons they use. Every conceivable barrier has already been broken in significant ways. This argument should have died the moment we saw Joker's moveset.

Someone with a lot of history with Nintendo and the potential for a unique gimmick.

Umm.... you literally just described a Resident Evil character (tons of actually specific history across 20+ years and an inventory/limited resources gimmick that's fleshed out properly).

 

[Deleted member]

Umm.... you literally just described a Resident Evil character (tons of actually specific history across 20+ years and an inventory/limited resources gimmick that's fleshed out properly).

Resident Evil has "specific history", sure, but it's a Playstation game first. That doesn't necessarily mean anything anymore, but in comparison to Phoenix Wright and Viewtiful Joe that got their start on a Nintendo console? There's more meaningful history there. Didn't deny that resource management wouldn't be a potential gimmick, either, just that we already have two characters that do resource management to varying degrees of success. It's about as much of a unique gimmick as a charging meter at this point.

 

[Nemuresu]

Resident Evil has "specific history", sure, but it's a Playstation game first. That doesn't necessarily mean anything anymore, but in comparison to Phoenix Wright and Viewtiful Joe that got their start on a Nintendo console? There's more meaningful history there. Didn't deny that resource management wouldn't be a potential gimmick, either, just that we already have two characters that do resource management to varying degrees of success. It's about as much of a unique gimmick as a charging meter at this point.

We're in a time where freaking Joker hangs around with Mario, Sonic and Cloud. Why would anyone still try to suggest that "ties to Nintendo" mean jack ****?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Resident Evil has "specific history", sure, but it's a Playstation game first. That doesn't necessarily mean anything anymore, but in comparison to Phoenix Wright and Viewtiful Joe that got their start on a Nintendo console? There's more meaningful history there. Didn't deny that resource management wouldn't be a potential gimmick, either, just that we already have two characters that do resource management to varying degrees of success. It's about as much of a unique gimmick as a charging meter at this point.

More meaningful history? Based on what metric? The Gamecube was known as a ****ing Resident Evil machine. Resident Evil Remake, Resident Evil Zero, and Resident Evil 4 all released as exclusives on the system originally alongside ports of 2,3, and Code Veronica X, and Revelations would later be released as an original 3DS exclusive. Hell, the best versions of Resident Evil 4 are still the Gamecube and Wii versions. Resident Evil was on Nintendo as soon as the N64 with Resident Evil 2 as well. There's a ton of meaningful history there as well, certainly more than Joe who is very, very, very dead thanks to Capcom's hand like many other titles, and it at least matches Phoenix Wright in terms of releases and history if not outright exceeds him.

Yeah, but Wonder Wing is barely an essential gimmick and you can do so much more with it. Imagine a moveset where you have this really stacked character that can pull off kinds of crazy **** right off the bat, but will lose them upon use. Things like rocket launchers, ammo for shotguns/handguns, herbs for healing, etc. Hero and Robin don't really do resource management in the same way because they just respawn over time, but what if it was a character properly balanced around the choices made in a stock as opposed to just one move? It's a great way to emulate survival horror and Resident Evil's feel while being entirely unique to a RE character. It's as unique of a gimmick as you'll get with anyone else (which is to say it's pretty damn unique).

 

[AugustusB]

All I have to say in regards to RE is that I'd be surprised if, by the end of Ultimate's DLC cycle, we didn't see anything from the series, even if only Mii costumes. That'd, uh... really floor me.

With how things are going, I would be just as surprised as you if there was no RE representation in any form.

Honestly, with all that Capcom has to offer for a potential fighter, it would be shocking if we didn't get at least one more Capcom Rep.

Seriously...Phoenix Wright, Dante, Amaterasu, Jill Valentine, Viewtiful Joe, Strider Hiryu, Sir Arthur, Frank West, etc...That is a lot to pull from!!

 

[link2702]

Not sure how much I'd like to have a character with their whole moveset being similar to wonderwing in the resource management department...

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

With how things are going, I would be just as surprised as you if there was no RE representation in any form.

Honestly, with all that Capcom has to offer for a potential fighter, it would be shocking if we didn't get at least one more Capcom Rep.

Seriously...Phoenix Wright, Dante, Amaterasu, Jill Valentine, Viewtiful Joe, Strider Hiryu, Sir Arthur, Frank West, etc...That is a lot to pull from!!

I personally think Amaterasu's moveset would be awesome because of the fact she could use the solar paintbrush in her attacks as well as her feral attacks.

 

[maf91186]

As far as Resident Evil is concerned, I've never played it. It's another franchise that I think would be hard to represent in Smash, not because of "muh realistic guns" which I think is a weak excuse, even ignoring Joker, it's just that I can't really think of a Sakurai tier moveset for the character.

In general, I have to ask, how is it so many people want/expect Doomslayer to get in yet can simultaneously claim possible Resident Evil characters don't have any potential move sets?

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

In general, I have to ask, how is it so many people want/expect Doomslayer to get in yet can simultaneously claim possible Resident Evil characters don't have any potential move sets?

Maybe because Doom Slayer is an almost perfect rival to Samus in terms of physical power and arsenal and RE is extremely limited because they're super realistic humans. Huge difference between Leon Kennedy and Doom Slayer.

I don't mean that in an aggressive manner but that's how I think people see it

 

[6eyondthegrave]

Maybe because Doom Slayer is an almost perfect rival to Samus in terms of physical power and arsenal and RE is extremely limited because they're super realistic humans. Huge difference between Leon Kennedy and Doom Slayer.

I don't mean that in an aggressive manner but that's how I think people see it

unless they take the ridiculous QuickTime moves from RE6 lol

https://youtu.be/Uf0DhP72EN4

 

[Grumbo]

I think if we get Leon he could use the chainsaw as a smash/special, though that might impact the rating

 

[Deleted member]

In general, I have to ask, how is it so many people want/expect Doomslayer to get in yet can simultaneously claim possible Resident Evil characters don't have any potential move sets?

Since you quoted me on the matter, just for the record, I don't want or expect Doom guy for a lot of the same reasons. And...

Maybe because Doom Slayer is an almost perfect rival to Samus in terms of physical power and arsenal and RE is extremely limited because they're super realistic humans. Huge difference between Leon Kennedy and Doom Slayer.

I don't mean that in an aggressive manner but that's how I think people see it

The comparison to Samus doesn't really help. In my opinion if Sakurai wanted someone to rival Samus in terms of futuristic technology, we'd already have Sylux (literally a guy in a stolen Federation knockoff of Samus' suit) or one of the other Hunters from Prime: Hunters.

To loosely quote myself from earlier in the thread because I'm still of the same opinion: I will be extremely surprised if Doom Guy makes the cut as anything but a Mii costume, if that.