Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[BoyMan]

My only hope is that he isn't a zoner. I can't really pick up a character and dedicate the time to getting good with them without a passion for them, and every character I love happens to be a zoner. I have no secondary to cover my bad matchups because they all fundamentally do the same thing and my playstyle doesn't vary too much with them. I want Geno to go in like the US Marshals or die trying, and if that kind of aggressive, high impact play doesn't secure the victory, then I'll have my zoning to fall back on.

Ultimate doesn't really have many hyper aggro characters that rely on projectiles to cover their approaches. I think only Diddy really fits the bill in that regard. I want Geno to have a sort of similar style to Melee Falco, with slightly above average movement speed, an exploitable recovery, fast attacks and a projectile that has low knockback and nearly no endlag. I think this would be pretty faithful to his role in Mario RPG, while still giving him a pretty unique niche in Ultimate.

 

[StarLight42]

If Sackboy somehow got in smash then I would just.. probably do all the things you guys said times 2.. along with some “I called it!” And “AHHHHHHHHHH” here and there.
(Side note, cant believe people still complain when this is the game where:
Banjo got in
K Rool got in
Ridley got in
Stage builder is better than ever
A story mode
We can turn off stage hazards
EVERYONE IS HERE
And we got 100 stages, and hundreds of music tracks!
And I could list even more! God this game doesn’t feel real)

I think you should really re-evaluate the way you’re seeing things.

You’re a new user, so I understand why things may be this way, however, I think some of the stuff you’ve posted recently reminds me that of a GameFAQS user, and trust me, that’s not a good thing, especially when we’re talking GameFAQS in terms of the Smash community.

Not long ago, you were talking something about how Banjo was the “most important” or “most hyped” among the fan characters, as if it was objective fact or something, pardon my misinterpretation if not, but it really came off that way.

A bit before that, you commented something along the lines of “Isaac didn’t deserve to be in the top 5” with other fan requested characters, when someone posted an image of Isaac, along with Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool, and Geno.

Not exactly the most polite comment to make considering the Isaac and Geno fanbases seem to heavily overlap.

And now, you’re asking why people would voice any sort of disappointment with Smash Ultimate because “it has Ridley” or “it had K. Rool” with simultaneously posting in a thread that was created for a character of that caliber (Geno) who has yet to make it in yet.

I’m sorry, but you’re coming off as poking a bee’s nest with a stick, and it’s pretty hypocritical how you voice your concern about Sackboy’s unpopularity as a request while also putting down other fan requests. (Isaac)

It’s all reading to me like one big GameFAQS post, to be honest, that isn’t good.

TheCJBrine and I discuss Steve here a lot, and lament his infamous unpopularity as a Smash request, but we don’t poke sticks at other fanbases in return, this place is one of the few corners left on the internet without anyone putting down one another for supporting (x), let’s keep it that way.

 

[Deleted member]

At least the Grinch "leaker" put in some effort with their hoax.

Whoever did it, I have quite a bit of disdain for, but saying "some effort" is selling that short. The amount of research and effort that went into that leak is bordering on obsessive.

Ultimate doesn't really have many hyper aggro characters that rely on projectiles to cover their approaches. I think only Diddy really fits the bill in that regard. I want Geno to have a sort of similar style to Melee Falco, with slightly above average movement speed, an exploitable recovery, fast attacks and a projectile that has low knockback and nearly no endlag. I think this would be pretty faithful to his role in Mario RPG, while still giving him a pretty unique niche in Ultimate.

Mario and Dr. Mario imo require fireball to get in effectively. In terms of exploitable recoveries, I sort of feel like those are just gone in general. Even the recoveries that should be exploitable somehow manage to not be. I could definitely see Geno Whirl serving in a fast, low knockback role and instead doing disproportionate damage (provided you time your hit!), but Geno Beam seems like such a charge shot. I have thought about the possibility of it being his Up Smash sort of like Palutena's, though.

 

[Deleted member]

There you go, now it exists in a visible form.

View attachment 241410

Brb saving this now

 

[JarBear]

Ah yes, more text leaks. How it never ends. The P Plant part does not hold much water to me since many people were piggy backing on that. Until we see the proof, this simply goes into the Text Leak Garbage Pile.

The most interesting thing about the video is the Tales Series trademark. This eerily reminds me of the Banjo trademark discussion. Also specifically, the "save" icon is fascinating too since its simple design really lines up with fighter series icons. Very fascinating.

*still holds salt shaker*

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Didn't the voice actor for Lloyd say something about working on a project he couldn't really talk about?

 

[skydogc]

Didn't the voice actor for Lloyd say something about working on a project he couldn't really talk about?

Yeah, and he left it vague and as open to interpretation as possible.
Could be a misdirect for a new Teen Titans season, but that's unlikely, though welcome.
Guy's had some major roles in a number of places, and is a pretty good VA, so who knows?

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Honestly, this wait cycle isn't all that bad this time around. We could have Terry release anytime within the next month to month and a half and it doesn't feel that far away. How time flies

 

[Firox]

Whoever did it, I have quite a bit of disdain for, but saying "some effort" is selling that short. The amount of research and effort that went into that leak is bordering on obsessive.

It's true, they really did put obsessive amounts of research into it. The fact that they would do THAT much work solely for the sake of trolling convinces me that they are an incredibly sick individual. Such a morbid waste of time and talent.

In terms of exploitable recoveries, I sort of feel like those are just gone in general. Even the recoveries that should be exploitable somehow manage to not be.

Clearly, you've never been on the receiving end of a skilled Greninja's hydro pump. Also, I've done some nasty off-stage counters with Arsene-Joker. Roys, Marths and Lucinas rage-quit me all the time.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I just realized I need to change the title. I'll do that when I get home because I'm a Boomer and don't get these here smart phones

 

[SSGuy]

We dont even know how many people knew about Piranha Plant. I saw one thing and a 'I knew it all along but not really' by Vergeben.

So why is everyone so quick to write this guy off? I get being pessimistic with Geno's name being thrown around but at that point, we should just expect him to not be in the game at all. At some point we need to be hopeful about stuff like this.

For now, I'm hoping Ryu truly is Character 5.

 

[Deleted member]

Clearly, you've never been on the receiving end of a skilled Greninja's hydro pump. Also, I've done some nasty off-stage counters with Arsene-Joker. Roys, Marths and Lucinas rage-quit me all the time.

I play Lucas, so I don't know what it's like to have an exploitable recovery nor do I know what it's like to be able to beat Marth and Lucina. Mostly Lucina.

PK Thunder really puts Roy in the trash, though.

Man I hope Geno beats Lucina. And Palutena.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I just realized I need to change the title. I'll do that when I get home because I'm a Boomer and don't get these here smart phones

Does this mean you're finally going to change it to the grammatically correct "star-SENT savior"? Because that's been bugging me ever since I first joined the thread.

 

[Grumbo]

We dont even know how many people knew about Piranha Plant. I saw one thing and a 'I knew it all along but not really' by Vergeben.

So why is everyone so quick to write this guy off? I get being pessimistic with Geno's name being thrown around but at that point, we should just expect him to not be in the game at all. At some point we need to be hopeful about stuff like this.

For now, I'm hoping Ryu truly is Character 5.

I think its largely because of a lack of hard evidence and the increase of baseless text leaks featuring him.

I play Lucas, so I don't know what it's like to have an exploitable recovery nor do I know what it's like to be able to beat Marth and Lucina. Mostly Lucina.

PK Thunder really puts Roy in the trash, though.

Man I hope Geno beats Lucina. And Palutena.

As a Roy main I can confirm his recovery sucks (at least it’s not Chrom’s lol).

 

[Ovaltine]

Ah yes, more text leaks. How it never ends. The P Plant part does not hold much water to me since many people were piggy backing on that. Until we see the proof, this simply goes into the Text Leak Garbage Pile.

The most interesting thing about the video is the Tales Series trademark. This eerily reminds me of the Banjo trademark discussion. Also specifically, the "save" icon is fascinating too since its simple design really lines up with fighter series icons. Very fascinating.

*still holds salt shaker*

Honestly, this wait cycle isn't all that bad this time around. We could have Terry release anytime within the next month to month and a half and it doesn't feel that far away. How time flies

If these line up in any way, while I doubt Lloyd is character 5, I would really not be surprised if he ended up becoming additional DLC.

 

[SSGuy]

I think its largely because of a lack of hard evidence and the increase of baseless text leaks featuring him.

Yeah but I also do not know the full specifics on what was sent to PapaGenos. As mentioned, he doesn't really cover these so there has to be something that was sent his way.

 

[Grumbo]

I’m not sure what this new Lloyd evidence is, but I’d be stoked to see him. He’s my third most wanted and I really enjoyed what I’ve played of Symphonia and in Smash Flash

 

[Deleted member]

I’m not sure what this new Lloyd evidence is, but I’d be stoked to see him. He’s my third most wanted and I really enjoyed what I’ve played of Symphonia and in Smash Flash

His voice actor posted some cryptic tweet about him doing new work for an NDA project, and Namco trademarked a book icon and a "Tales of Series" logo. It lines up pretty well to me that there's a new "Tales of" game coming, maybe a remaster or something since Namco has been trademarking remaster titles.

I'm starting to disbelieve every time I claimed shill rep on any character, so really I don't think it helps or hurts Lloyd to think there's some new games coming out.

 

[StarLight42]

So, where’s the evidence for this Ryu/Geno leak? He claims his friend knew about “Pyranha” Plant but I have yet to see any cold hard evidence

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Today’s the 9th... methinks the title is in need of a change perhaps

So, where’s the evidence for this Ryu/Geno leak? He claims his friend knew about “Pyranha” Plant but I have yet to see any cold hard evidence

I’d like to know this too, what else does it say as well?

 

[Rohanx17]

Well speak of the devil and he appears as they say. After this I'm willing to move Lloyd up from the likely pile to right under ryu for the #5. At first he was in the geno camp of missing a celebrated costume that could throw him out but even if he's not 5 I think he's in play while it's absent. Tales is probably the most prolific rpg series square doesn't own and bamco still hasn't gotten any new characters for a game they're producing. Not to mention in the same breath as geno' s endorsement he flat out said in no uncertain terms Lloyd will be our hypothetical tales rep if one happens. We've only got a few weeks left I'm quite excited to see the results.

 

[Shado-will]

So, where’s the evidence for this Ryu/Geno leak? He claims his friend knew about “Pyranha” Plant but I have yet to see any cold hard evidence

I believe that in the video, PapaGenos says that the person sent him a screenshot of someone saying on October 31 that Piranha Plant was coming to smash, but I think that was it.

 

[Ovaltine]

I believe that in the video, PapaGenos says that the person sent him a screenshot of someone saying on October 31 that Piranha Plant was coming to smash, but I think that was it.

lol that's it? That can very easily be faked. I'm not buying it.

 

[StarLight42]

lol that's it? That can very easily be faked. I'm not buying it.

Yeah, this is how I feel.

papagenos is there any way you could elaborate on why this guy’s friend’s post was legit and not just a photoshop? We’re all pretty skeptical of this leak and right now it’s sounding no better than the whole WeaverSerawl fiasco so we’re confused as to why you’re taking it seriously compared to that leak.

 

[Firox]

I play Lucas, so I don't know what it's like to have an exploitable recovery nor do I know what it's like to be able to beat Marth and Lucina. Mostly Lucina.

PK Thunder really puts Roy in the trash, though.

Man I hope Geno beats Lucina. And Palutena.

I hope Geno spanks everybody, but not in a broken kind of way.

 

[Rohanx17]

Yeah joker tier would be ideal so that he can take tournaments but not break the game like bayo and have people give us more crap than we'll get to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

lol that's it? That can very easily be faked. I'm not buying it.

Yeah, this is how I feel.

papagenos is there any way you could elaborate on why this guy’s friend’s post was legit and not just a photoshop? We’re all pretty skeptical of this leak and right now it’s sounding no better than the whole WeaverSerawl fiasco so we’re confused as to why you’re taking it seriously compared to that leak.

To venture a guess, the person who contacted Papagenos said that they have "evidence to [their] claims", claims being plural here. Obviously, that doesn't prove anything, but since in this world of dime a dozen video makers trying to farm as much adbux as they can from daily videos, I hold Papagenos in a higher regard than most theory/leaktubers - if there wasn't something tangible or potentially tangible here, he wouldn't have bothered with it like he didn't bother with the GameFAQs nonsense until people basically expected it from him, and it isn't like he's producing a daily video on every leak thread that graces /v/'s catalog every hour. The contact may have told him he'll give him more evidence later and was just giving him the Piranha Plant proof up front, or maybe the other information needs to be kept secret for a little while.

I don't buy the leak, but I'm more than happy to try to justify why Papagenos would bother covering what is essentially a text leak with zero substance. Maybe he'll grace us with an explanation, though.

I hope Geno spanks everybody, but not in a broken kind of way.

Spanking everyone, even 50:50, is broken imo. He's gotta outright lose to someone, multiple someones, in fact.

 

[Firox]

Spanking everyone, even 50:50, is broken imo. He's gotta outright lose to someone, multiple someones, in fact.

By "spanking everyone" (lol the mental picture), I meant something closer to 50:50 against meta picks like Palu, the rats, the marths, etc. This doesn't seem that unreasonable when you consider how well the game is balanced overall. If you want to argue whether such a feat would constitute "broken", I think it depends on how technical he is and how many people can get results with him. If MKLeo cleans house with him, but he's the only player who does, that ain't broken. If literally 100% of the top 16 of EVERY tournament are nothing but Genos, now we have a problem.

 

[Deleted member]

If MKLeo cleans house with him, but he's the only player who does, that ain't broken.

[Joker summoning Arsene in the distance]

Honestly I'm also super pleased with the balance in this game and I'm not even really fishing for Geno to outright beat my bad matchups, just to have the tools to play the matchups better. I know why I'm losing them and it isn't entirely because people like Palu or Lucina are too strong, it's because they have anti-Lucas tools.

 

[Firox]

[Joker summoning Arsene in the distance]

Honestly I'm also super pleased with the balance in this game and I'm not even really fishing for Geno to outright beat my bad matchups, just to have the tools to play the matchups better. I know why I'm losing them and it isn't entirely because people like Palu or Lucina are too strong, it's because they have anti-Lucas tools.

One thing I really like about this game's balance is that there isn't any one character that is flat out unbeatable. Each character has a counter, or at least one other character with the tools to beat them, leaving a huge portion of victory to the players' skills alone. I think an awesome example of this is how Zackray won Big House 9 with like 5 or 6 different characters. He had a relatively large pool of "mains" with which to counter any scenario or matchup. Much like Pokemon, half the key to winning is knowing when to switch out and who to switch to, rather than trying to force a single character through a losing matchup. In Geno's case, I'm looking forward to the idea of seeing how he improves my lineup and covers some of my weak spots.

 

[Deleted member]

In Geno's case, I'm looking forward to the idea of seeing how he improves my lineup and covers some of my weak spots.

Exactly. A lot of people in my local scene act like I'm waiting for the legendary Smash 4 $5.99 tier to come solve all my problems, but I just want a different tool in my pocket.

Well, I'm going to be maining him, so I guess I'm wearing him on my sleeve rather than having him in my pocket, but you get what I mean.

 

[MisterMike]

Got bored, here's a dab.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I personally think that with the proper work, Geno will probably be... let's say B-C tier. I don't imagine he'll be an ungodly tyrant to the Meta but he'll be FAR from bottom tier.




Now, it'd be hilarious if he somehow got his own tier-listing like Mega Rayquaza did ..oh those were the days..


S Tiers: "Ha, we're the best of the bes-"
Geno: "I am above G O D."

 

[Grumbo]

I finally got around to listening to the new papagenos video. The leak honestly seems pretty flimsy. I trust him but he doesnt seem to put full stock into it either. That tales of logo seems very interesting and is kinda getting my hopes up. I kinda doubt its a save icon, normally that stuff doesnt get trademarked. A book as a logo makes sense for a series with “Tales” in the title. Also the logo seems pretty smash-like, especially compared to the new series like persona and dragon quest. Just my two cents though.

 

[Rohanx17]

so is there a precedent of smash icons being legally processed in the same way we could compare with? I feel like if this is legit it shouldn't be hard to prove.

 

[Plank08]

I think you should really re-evaluate the way you’re seeing things.

You’re a new user, so I understand why things may be this way, however, I think some of the stuff you’ve posted recently reminds me that of a GameFAQS user, and trust me, that’s not a good thing, especially when we’re talking GameFAQS in terms of the Smash community.

Not long ago, you were talking something about how Banjo was the “most important” or “most hyped” among the fan characters, as if it was objective fact or something, pardon my misinterpretation if not, but it really came off that way.

A bit before that, you commented something along the lines of “Isaac didn’t deserve to be in the top 5” with other fan requested characters, when someone posted an image of Isaac, along with Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool, and Geno.

Not exactly the most polite comment to make considering the Isaac and Geno fanbases seem to heavily overlap.

And now, you’re asking why people would voice any sort of disappointment with Smash Ultimate because “it has Ridley” or “it had K. Rool” with simultaneously posting in a thread that was created for a character of that caliber (Geno) who has yet to make it in yet.

I’m sorry, but you’re coming off as poking a bee’s nest with a stick, and it’s pretty hypocritical how you voice your concern about Sackboy’s unpopularity as a request while also putting down other fan requests. (Isaac)

It’s all reading to me like one big GameFAQS post, to be honest, that isn’t good.

TheCJBrine and I discuss Steve here a lot, and lament his infamous unpopularity as a Smash request, but we don’t poke sticks at other fanbases in return, this place is one of the few corners left on the internet without anyone putting down one another for supporting (x), let’s keep it that way.

Oh I think you misread my post, I meant that we shouldn’t get overly angry and start blaming Sakurai and saying “he ruined everything” because one thing didn’t go your way, sorry for the confusion.
And I get what you mean with the Isaac thing, I just always felt like it was the main 4, not the main 5, so sorry about that too.

 

[MisterMike]

so is there a precedent of smash icons being legally processed in the same way we could compare with? I feel like if this is legit it shouldn't be hard to prove.

Not to my knowledge. If that were the case, we would've already been looking for stuff like that.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Hello all. I mostly post in the rate their chances thread but wanted to explore other threads. After reading some pages I would like to take the time to gather up all the evidence for Geno's case.

• A heavily requested character that consistently does excellent on fan polls so he probably did very well on the ballot. Not to mention Sakurai liking the character and considering him in the past.
• Speaking of Sakurai, he did empathize in the Banjo video about pleasing the fans, thus fan requests like Geno.
• He had a Mii costume in Smash 4 and interestingly it has not returned. Either they are improving on it to make it high-quality like Sans or they upgraded him to a playable character.
• The fact that two songs most associated with Geno were taken down from YouTube by Nintendo which is interesting. I believe a remix of Megalovania was also taken down from YouTube before the Sans Mii costume was added (except that was only one song which is important as I'm about to mention). As we know from Cloud and Hero, Square Enix seems to have a rule that each game represented can only have two songs (Cloud with two songs and each Hero having 2 songs each). Was it a coincidence that those two songs were taken down? Maybe. However, I find it highly suspicious that out of all the time those videos were up, they happen to be removed during this DLC phase.
• A minor point, but I thought to include it. Legend of the 7 Stars was included in the SNES Mini which at least means that Nintendo and Square Enix have not completely forgotten about the game.
• As for Geno's spirit, there is nothing that says that spirits 100% deconfirm characters. Until Sakurai says otherwise, spirit characters are still on the table.

I might be missing a couple other things, but those are the major ones I thought of. Excuse me if this is redundant as these points have probably been discussed to death, but I just wanted to talk about Geno since I feel this may actually be his time. As for leaks, I don't trust anything besides VR Plant and maybe Vergeben as he does have a good track record, but he got some things wrong such as the Square Enix character being the first DLC character. The Grinch Leak proves that anything could be fake. Like holy moly, there were mountains of evidence supporting it.

 

[Sour Supreme]

I finally got around to listening to the new papagenos video. The leak honestly seems pretty flimsy. I trust him but he doesnt seem to put full stock into it either. That tales of logo seems very interesting and is kinda getting my hopes up. I kinda doubt its a save icon, normally that stuff doesnt get trademarked. A book as a logo makes sense for a series with “Tales” in the title. Also the logo seems pretty smash-like, especially compared to the new series like persona and dragon quest. Just my two cents though.

I feel like, even if it is true it means a Tales character is coming in the next cycle. No way that they're getting logos together for DLC5 this late.

 

[Rohanx17]

Not to my knowledge. If that were the case, we would've already been looking for stuff like that.

yeah that's a big problem for that theory then, though I don't think it changes much for Lloyd anyway

Hello all. I mostly post in the rate their chances thread but wanted to explore other threads. After reading some pages I would like to take the time to gather up all the evidence for Geno's case.

• A heavily requested character that consistently does excellent on fan polls so he probably did very well on the ballot. Not to mention Sakurai liking the character and considering him in the past.
• Speaking of Sakurai, he did empathize in the Banjo video about pleasing the fans, thus fan requests like Geno.
• He had a Mii costume in Smash 4 and interestingly it has not returned. Either they are improving on it to make it high-quality like Sans or they upgraded him to a playable character.
• The fact that two songs most associated with Geno were taken down from YouTube by Nintendo which is interesting. I believe a remix of Megalovania was also taken down from YouTube before the Sans Mii costume was added (except that was only one song which is important as I'm about to mention). As we know from Cloud and Hero, Square Enix seems to have a rule that each game represented can only have two songs (Cloud with two songs and each Hero having 2 songs each). Was it a coincidence that those two songs were taken down? Maybe. However, I find it highly suspicious that out of all the time those videos were up, they happen to be removed during this DLC phase.
• A minor point, but I thought to include it. Legend of the 7 Stars was included in the SNES Mini which at least means that Nintendo and Square Enix have not completely forgotten about the game.
• As for Geno's spirit, there is nothing that says that spirits 100% deconfirm characters. Until Sakurai says otherwise, spirit characters are still on the table.

I might be missing a couple other things, but those are the major ones I thought of. Excuse me if this is redundant as these points have probably been discussed to death, but I just wanted to talk about Geno since I feel this may actually be his time.

I think the big one was Sakurai's acknowledgement and endorsement during the interview a few years back. To a lot of people myself included that was the moment it felt like geno was actually on the table for consideration and not just some fantasy we cooked up. I really believe the momentum for his support in ultimate wouldn't have gotten as good as it did without that.