Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Datboigeno]

I think you might need to review your facts there.
Sora is a Disney owned character. Square-Enix holds rights over the games themselves, but the IP is Disney.
Disney has expressed numerous times they consult Nomura out of respect. They are able to do what they want with Sora.
He is a character created by SE, but legally speaking, he is Disney, not SE. Check the concerts and other related content.

I was mistaken in my statement where I specifically said "SE owns the rights" but everything else is correct. He's a Disney-owned character that appears in Square Enix games and any appearance in SE would have to be worked through Nintendo, Disney, and Nomura (SE). Not considering him a "true" SE character because of this feels like a stretch.

 

[Deleted member]

How are you this engrossed in "console war bull****" in 2019? Calling Microsoft M$ and acting like people who play Xbox are only dude bros who only like shooters is not a good look in the least bit and isn't true either.

I also don't agree that it shows a whole lot. By 2008, Square Enix and Nintendo had been working together on pretty damn good terms for 6 years. It's a narrative I see peddled a lot, but realistically, Square Enix was releasing a lot of titles on Nintendo's portable consoles and were one of the strongest third party supporters of the GBA/DS era. Nintendo just hasn't had a console powerful enough to accommodate their major titles (which traditionally have run not great on other consoles) as well. They're businesses that realize the benefits of working together, and even in Japan where things may be taken more seriously, Nintendo generally understands how much they were in the wrong in that era.

Maybe it's because all of the Xbox One owners that I know are "dude bros" who only like shooters, with one or two exceptions. Maybe it's because when I sit down to watch Microsoft's E3 presentation I see the twitch chat full of people who only came for the realistic action games and have zero patience for when Microsoft or a third party wants to put something kid friendly on the platform. When you build your brand on focusing on that kind of gamer and then embrace that kind of gamer, that's the only thing that fails to be a "good look".

I'll let you know when a lifelong Xbox fanboy shows up at my weekly and tells me that Banjo brought him here. Likewise I'll do the same when they include Master Chief, but my prediction is that either 0 will show up, or 0 will stay. Nintendo can want to "attract all kinds of audiences" but there's a limit to what you can realistically attract.

 

[Firox]

Basically, my feelings are:

-We get Geno? HYPED
-We get Geno AND Sora? HYPED, PLUS UUUUULTERA!
-We get Sora but NOT Geno? Fairly hyped, but heavily pissed at the same time.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Sent my letter to the email J JarBear thanks again for organizing the letter campaign I hope we can get more stuff like this together. I just wish I had the words to describe how I really feel about Geno but I did the best I could.

Edit: now to type up some more movesets.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I was mistaken in my statement where I specifically said "SE owns the rights" but everything else is correct. He's a Disney-owned character that appears in Square Enix games and any appearance in SE would have to be worked through Nintendo, Disney, and Nomura (SE). Not considering him a "true" SE character because of this feels like a stretch.

I don't think it's a stretch, because in the end, it's the legal matters that count. Nomura is kinda like that guy that they """"hired"""" to do the job. Disney could choose to move KH out of SE if they want. As much as the KH games are developed by SE, essentially, he is not a SE character. It's the same logic as calling Star Fox Assault OCs Namco characters

How are you this engrossed in "console war bull****" in 2019? Calling Microsoft M$ and acting like people who play Xbox are only dude bros who only like shooters is not a good look in the least bit and isn't true either.

I also don't agree that it shows a whole lot. By 2008, Square Enix and Nintendo had been working together on pretty damn good terms for 6 years. It's a narrative I see peddled a lot, but realistically, Square Enix was releasing a lot of titles on Nintendo's portable consoles and were one of the strongest third party supporters of the GBA/DS era. Nintendo just hasn't had a console powerful enough to accommodate their major titles (which traditionally have run not great on other consoles) as well. They're businesses that realize the benefits of working together, and even in Japan where things may be taken more seriously, Nintendo generally understands how much they were in the wrong in that era.



Nintendo went into the 1990s with an impossibly large hubris and proceeded to get hit with huge amounts of karma for it. Nintendo was an extremely rigid company in the NES/SNES era that demanded their way or the highway. They limited how many games publishers could release in a single year, they forced all content to meet their personal guidelines for content (which was strict and somewhat draconian in how much content they wouldn't allow, not just hyper violence or pornographic types of content, but references to religion or things that were too political too), and it cost a pretty penny to produce for Nintendo. Some of this had been necessary measures for revitalizing consumer confidence in the US video game market in the mid-1980s... but their policies were not the most popular. These guidelines weren't as strict in Japan mind you, but they earned a pretty ruthless reputation all the same and still didn't always get along super well with third parties.

I could get into this a whole lot more (I have written a longer academic paper on this time period if you're interested haha). But Nintendo just kept pushing harder and harder with things like lawsuits and even (allegedly) instigating the US Senate hearings on adult and violent content in video games (specifically in opposition to Sega who was much more free with their products and were becoming a serious competitor to Nintendo's market share at the time). Eventually Nintendo partnered with Sony to make a CD add-on for the SNES, but got cold feet about the add-on and the rights to those games potentially lying more with Sony than they were comfortable with, so they backed out. Sony took that technology and made the Playstation and offered a much more open, modern, and friendly alternative to Nintendo and Sega. Nintendo then drug their feet on getting the N64 out (a full year after the PS1) and went with cartridges because they could maintain their usual control over the industry with owning all the production, they could load faster than CDs, and they were harder to pirate. The trade-off was that these cartridges couldn't hold much data and couldn't hold higher quality video and music most of the time. Square Enix had an ambitious project plan for Final Fantasy VII... but Nintendo's console wasn't up to the task. The N64-DD was a disk based add-on that Nintendo was developing, but still wasn't remotely close to being ready in time for Square's game.

Square Enix was frustrated with Nintendo and they jumped ship to Sony at that point. They didn't want their ambition to be stifled and like I said, Nintendo had not been popular during the 80s and 90s. Nintendo naturally was extremely upset and basically threw a fit that put them on rough terms for the rest of the N64's lifecycle. That's generally how Nintendo lost all their third party support. Years of mistreating them and holding them to standards the companies didn't agree with meant lots of developers/publishers were very willing to jump ship when the going got rough for Nintendo. And they absolutely messed up with the N64 and gave a huge amount of the video game market share to Sony's PS1. It was clear the PS1 was going to be a success and could handle the more ambitious video based projects of the time (even though the N64 was more powerful overall), so they took their business to the more successful and cheaper to produce for PS1.

Nintendo more or less holds most of the blame for splintering their relationship with third parties, and Square Enix was one of the huge ones, especially once Final Fantasy VII proved to be a massive hit on Sony's console in a way that it never had been on the SNES.

It's heartbreaking, as a fan of both companies, to see that happen. And in the end, this series of events also indirectly led to Squaresoft's own downfall at the end of the PSX era, as the FF creator and his team left the company, alongside others that followed suit (these now known as Monolith Soft, owned by Nintendo... yes, Nintendo went for them on a heartbeat after Namco let them go for a reason). The FF series and its characters were never the same again, and SE has been in identity crisis for decades bc of this chain of events.

That doesn't mean it's confirmed for other consoles though. Publishers can say this and nothing may come from it.



Exactly so it's a PlayStation exclusive right now. Once they announce the game on other consoles, then it'll be a multiplatform game.

Then it's not an exclusive, but a timed-exclusive. There is a very big distinction here.
It's the lack of true exclusives that Xbox is dying and Sony is also seeing a decline (most of their exclusive series produced by third parties are now landing on Nintendo and PC, and thus, they are now going after Kojima's studio and Insomniac).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Then it's not an exclusive, but a timed-exclusive. There is a very big distinction here.
It's the lack of true exclusives that Xbox is dying and Sony is also seeing a decline (most of their exclusive series produced by third parties are now landing on Nintendo and PC, and thus, they are now going after Kojima's studio and Insomniac).

How is it a timed exclusive if there is no confirmation that Persona 5 R or the Final Fantasy 7 remake will be on other consoles?

 

[MajoraMan28]

How is it a timed exclusive if there is no confirmation that Persona 5 R or the Final Fantasy 7 remake will be on other consoles?

I literally just explained why
They are not labelled by Sony themselves as exclusive.
The original FFVII Remake trailer back in 2015 already said "play it first on PS4"
We've known for a long time that the game isn't exclusive.

P5R is a different case. The game has been heavily promoted by Atlus themselves to use the PS logo and content (FF's case focuses strictly on their game and name, with no PS intro to the trailers). But nowhere is it seen to be exclusive. Sony does not list it as an exclusive still, from what I've been informed.

 

[Ovaltine]

I literally just explained why
They are not labelled by Sony themselves as exclusive.
The original FFVII Remake trailer back in 2015 already said "play it first on PS4"
We've known for a long time that the game isn't exclusive.

P5R is a different case. The game has been heavily promoted by Atlus themselves to use the PS logo and content (FF's case focuses strictly on their game and name, with no PS intro to the trailers). But nowhere is it seen to be exclusive. Sony does not list it as an exclusive still, from what I've been informed.

I don't know about P5R, but I do remember that for FF7R. If I had to make a bet, FF7R will probably make it to Xbox Scarlet and will probably also release on PS5. I honestly doubt it'd make it to Switch. I think the original is all we're getting there.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I don't know about P5R, but I do remember that for FF7R. If I had to make a bet, FF7R will probably make it to Xbox Scarlet and will probably also release on PS5. I honestly doubt it'd make it to Switch. I think the original is all we're getting there.

I wouldn't rule it out. Part 1's engine is the same as DQXI S, a game made in a custom engine before the Switch dev update was a thing.
It could happen, but with downgrades.
I would bet on Nintendo's update to the Switch in the future or their next console. Let's be honest, next year, both next gen consoles will come out and absolutely leave the Switch in the dust, in terms of hardware capabilities. PS4 games being ported is viable, but PS5 is reaching a bit too far.

 

[MattX20]

People are forgetting that Sora is owned COMPLETELY by Disney, Square has nothing on him. And with both of SE's main franchises in Smash, Geno has literally no major competition left in the request department. Lara Croft didn't become SE property until just a little while ago, and 2B was created after the ballot

 

[MajoraMan28]

People are forgetting that Sora is owned COMPLETELY by Disney, Square has nothing on him. And with both of SE's main franchises in Smash, Geno has literally no major competition left in the request department. Lara Croft didn't become SE property until just a little while ago, and 2B was created after the ballot

Lara being a SE property a few years ago isn't even a problem at all. CD was bought a while ago, and she is a legacy character.
2B is one of the most hyped characters this generation.
And do not forget that another FF character could also come.

 

[wynn728]

You know the thought just occurred to me, how weird is it that Bomberman is only an Assist Trophy (as of now) and Terry Bogard got in first. I thought Bomberman was a shoe-in and I'm many people who are SNK fans didn't think Terry was ever going to make it in. Smash Bros is weird.

 

[MattX20]

Lara being a SE property a few years ago isn't even a problem at all. CD was bought a while ago, and she is a legacy character.
2B is one of the most hyped characters this generation.
And do not forget that another FF character could also come.

Sakurai tends to focus on characters with legacy more, so 2B is less likely. Tomb Raider does have history for sure, but Lara's never been high on many Smash Bros fans lists or the general public wants, even among most wanted female characters. Dixie Kong, Shantae, Rex and Pyra/Mythra, and KOS-MOS tended to be more highly wanted.

 

[SSGuy]

If we are going based on legacy, Lara Croft should be the top of the list for SE

 

[MajoraMan28]

You are making the terrible mistake of assuming Sakurai is picking chars.
He has made clear that he is not.
It's Nintendo themselves.

And I'm not sure you should be relying solely on fan lists to get a general sense of public opinion.
Lara is a respectable candidate.
I wouldn't be betting that much on her though.

 

[JarBear]

Sent my letter to the email J JarBear thanks again for organizing the letter campaign I hope we can get more stuff like this together. I just wish I had the words to describe how I really feel about Geno but I did the best I could.

Edit: now to type up some more movesets.

Thank you! Spread the word!!!

 

[Megadoomer]

You are making the terrible mistake of assuming Sakurai is picking chars.
He has made clear that he is not.
It's Nintendo themselves.

And I'm not sure you should be relying solely on fan lists to get a general sense of public opinion.
Lara is a respectable candidate.
I wouldn't be betting that much on her though.

Isn't it a mix? Nintendo's giving a list of characters, and Sakurai's choosing from that list.

Besides, the Fighters Pass had the exact same situation, and we got Banjo and Kazooie (characters from a franchise that hasn't had a well-received game in nearly twenty years) over Master Chief (the face of Xbox) and Steve from Minecraft (easily the most popular Microsoft-owned game). Despite the odds seeming to be stacked against them, we got Banjo and Kazooie entirely (or almost entirely) because of fan demand.

We've got the faces of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest in Smash, so I'd say that Geno's pretty likely after that (if we get another Square-Enix character, that is).

 

[MajoraMan28]

Isn't it a mix? Nintendo's giving a list of characters, and Sakurai's choosing from that list.

Besides, the Fighters Pass had the exact same situation, and we got Banjo and Kazooie (characters from a franchise that hasn't had a well-received game in nearly twenty years) over Master Chief (the face of Xbox) and Steve from Minecraft (easily the most popular Microsoft-owned game). Despite the odds seeming to be stacked against them, we got Banjo and Kazooie entirely (or almost entirely) because of fan demand.

We've got the faces of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest in Smash, so I'd say that Geno's pretty likely after that (if we get another Square-Enix character, that is).

No.
He wrote in the column that Nintendo gives him a list of the picks they have, and Sakurai gives the response on whether it would be viable to make said characters have a legit moveset.

Don't underestimate Banjo's relevance and reasoning to be put in the game. It is true that the fan requests influenced the priorities, but don't forget that we are still up for more Microsoft support in the future, and Banjo was a character that defined an entire genre (a branch-off from the 3D platformer to the 3D collectathon that Mario himself has adopted for the first time in his latest adventure).

 

[catsforlife1]

GUYS. After to doing some research I found this quote from Sakurais interview after e3. This is from the banjo part btw.

"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

 

[MisterMike]

GUYS. After to doing some research I found this quote from Sakurais interview after e3. This is from the banjo part btw.

"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

 

[StarLight42]

GUYS. After to doing some research I found this quote from Sakurais interview after e3. This is from the banjo part btw.

"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

He means even more of them as in requests not as in granted wishes.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

He means even more of them as in requests not as in granted wishes.

What's the difference?

 

[Qeomash]

What's the difference?

Not all requests will be granted.

 

[JarBear]

Not all requests will be granted.

Except Geno obviously.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Not all requests will be granted.

Well, obviously. However, if a request does get in, then a wish is granted, so it's the same thing.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Hey, we're better than ever, aren't we?
I think we deserve a sparkle in our hearts
So many people came here after the last direct
Are you feelin' it too?

I think we can allow ourselves to have hope once again, until it happens, let's keep wishing for it!

EDIT:

I don't know if this was already shared but.. Sakurai won 4 awards at TGS and I wanted to share this wonderful Speech.

Spoiler: Feelings ahead

 

[MisterMike]

Hey, we're better than ever, aren't we?
I think we deserve a sparkle in our hearts
So many people came here after the last direct
Are you feelin' it too?

I'm feelin' a warm spot.

 

[Deleted member]

Not all requests will be granted.

You're right. Sakurai, AKA most powerful being in the universes murdered Goku in cold blood at TGS

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

GUYS. After to doing some research I found this quote from Sakurais interview after e3. This is from the banjo part btw.

"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

Wow that quote makes me feel even more hopeful than ever for Geno and Isaac, can you please provide a source where this was stated exactly though. Thank you

 

[catsforlife1]

Wow that quote makes me feel even more hopeful than ever for Geno and Isaac, can you please provide a source where this was stated exactly though. Thank you

here you go bud https://nintendoeverything.com/banjo-kazooie-hero-smash-bros-masahiro-sakurai/

 

[N3ON]

It's a very reassuring quote if you thought Sakurai was never again going to include a character due to the fanbase.

Other than that, ehhhhhhh.

 

[LDGno97]

GUYS. After to doing some research I found this quote from Sakurais interview after e3. This is from the banjo part btw.

"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

I verified the source. I hope it's not some mistranslation error, or something.

Cause this puts Geno's chances even higher

 

[Datboigeno]

It's a very reassuring quote if you thought Sakurai was never again going to include a character due to the fanbase.

Other than that, ehhhhhhh.

I mean it's him implying that he will be looking characters in the realm of King K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo who were highly requested from the West specifically despite not being in the spotlight in terms of "relevancy". Geno definitely falls within that subset of characters.

 

[N3ON]

I mean it's him implying that he will be looking characters in the realm of King K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo who were highly requested from the West specifically despite not being in the spotlight in terms of "relevancy". Geno definitely falls within that subset of characters.

I'm unaware people thought him doing so was previously off the table.

But as far as "seeing more of them", "them" is being taken to mean characters, even though the topic of that statement is requests. As he addresses requests, more pop up. I mean there's a reason the sentence didn't blow up after E3. I think people are misconstruing it right now.

The more pertinent part of the quote is "as I continue to grant these requests". But that's less earth-shaking and more him doing what people thought was likely anyway. Every once in a while a fan request like the aforementioned three get in. Or maybe Geno. Or maybe Waluigi. It's not like he's saying those kind of additions will become more frequent, just that they won't totally stop.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Have faith in your dreams and someday
Your rainbow will come smiling through
No matter how your heart is grieving
If you keep on believing
The dream that you wish will come true

Farfetch'd's dreams are coming true. So can yours

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm unaware people thought him doing so was previously off the table.

But as far as "seeing more of them", "them" is being taken to mean characters, even though the topic of that statement is requests. As he addresses requests, more pop up. I mean there's a reason the sentence didn't blow up after E3. I think people are misconstruing it right now.

The more pertinent part of the quote is "as I continue to grant these requests". But that's less earth-shaking and more him doing what people thought was likely anyway. Every once in a while a fan request like the aforementioned three get in. Or maybe Geno. Or maybe Waluigi. It's not like he's saying those kind of additions will become more frequent, just that they won't totally stop.

People have had a big range of thoughts regarding the types of characters Sakurai is going to be adding to the game since DLC was first announced with some people assuming that everything was going to be "shill" choices to others assuming it's just going to be his own nostalgia picks. I can see how "them" could mean requests period. But even then the granting means that he's already planning on getting more of the highly requested characters in. That could be seen as significant when you take into account the fact that most of the highly requested characters are either first party or come from franchises already established in Smash. That's comforting considering there's been a growing concern that the bonus DLC is going to be all third party and new franchise related like the FP. But Sakurai naming not only Banjo but also Ridley and K. Rool indicates that he's willing if not planning to bring in highly requested newcomers from already present franchises.

 

[Krystofr]

Either way, I'm hoping we get a mixture of both first party and maybe more third party, with Geno included of course. I'm stoked for more content for one of my favorite franchises either way and I'm so happy for the nominations and stuff for this game.

 

[Geno Boost]

Alright so i just finished rendering Axem Pink even though i actually finished modeling it last week and i am happy how it turned out and i also noticed that Axem Pink feet is actually thinner than the other Axem Rangers

more renders:

Spoiler

 

[max_0888]

The last Nintendo direct made me very hopeful once more. I love the fact that Ultimate will have more characters for another year maybe. Each new character has been fun to play with. I love Hero and Banjo. The devotion made into bringing the characters to life is impressive. I really hope Mario RPG will get the same treatment. It is such a classic. My second fave game of all time after FF6.
I’m one of the few that actually like Mallow just as much as Geno. If they were to bring Mario RPG back to life, I would love for them to bring Mallow with Geno in a tag team duo style. You could switch like Pokémon trainer. So people who wants to play only as Geno could still do that.
The music from the game is also pretty iconic.
Fingers crossed

 

[kiteinthesky]

The last Nintendo direct made me very hopeful once more. I love the fact that Ultimate will have more characters for another year maybe. Each new character has been fun to play with. I love Hero and Banjo. The devotion made into bringing the characters to life is impressive. I really hope Mario RPG will get the same treatment. It is such a classic. My second fave game of all time after FF6.
I’m one of the few that actually like Mallow just as much as Geno. If they were to bring Mario RPG back to life, I would love for them to bring Mallow with Geno in a tag team duo style. You could switch like Pokémon trainer. So people who wants to play only as Geno could still do that.
The music from the game is also pretty iconic.
Fingers crossed

Major props for that Celes avatar, by the way. Most people don't remember or talk about Final Fantasy 6 anymore, and as a dinosaur who was around when it came out, that makes me sad.

People forget that the plot of SMRPG had a lot more to do with Mallow than it did with Geno. Sure, Geno was deeply tied to the circumstances that resulted in the problem the heroes had to solve in the first place being from the Star Road and all, but most of the story actually revolved around Mallow's character development and growth as a person. It always irritated me how the plot chastised Mallow for crying, and how his growth revolved around him expressing his emotions less, a lesson that's thankfully deeply frowned upon in recent years, but a lot of the actual story really was about him. Most everything from the beginning of the story up to Nimbus Land centered around him in some meaningful way.

I think people became more attached to Geno because not only is he the most powerful character in the game, but because so much of him isn't explained he's this enigmatic figure for which people fill in the blanks on their own, and so they get attached to their idea of him rather than the actual character. It's why there are different schools of thought about him going down even to how his voice actor should sound in Smash, whereas everybody has a united, clear idea of how Mallow is/sounds/should be portrayed.

That being said, I like the both of them equally and I hope that, if/when Geno does get announced for DLC, that he and Mallow will snag a tag-team role in an upcoming Mario Kart as well. That would be ****ing fire.