Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[ForsakenM]

With polls like that, I hope Sakurai browses reddit...

Anyway, like I said, since I can see Terry being somewhat like a Mac/Ryu combo, uniqueness doesn't seem to matter to Sakurai much anymore. While the "spinoff" Kingdom Hearts games are just as valid as numbered games, I still feel like when the Playstation gets ports of former Nintendo exclusives while Nintendo doesn't even get the rereleases and anthologies, putting Sora in is just advertising for the competition.

Didn't Sakurai JUST tell people to go play Banjo-Kazooie games...on Xbox?

It's no longer about competition: it's about getting cool characters that people want.

Also, Terry is nothing like a Ryu/Mac hybrid. That doesn't even make sense. Burning Knuckle is not a charge attack, and Power Wave is a projectile that specifically only travels across the ground.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

With polls like that, I hope Sakurai browses reddit...

Anyway, like I said, since I can see Terry being somewhat like a Mac/Ryu combo, uniqueness doesn't seem to matter to Sakurai much anymore. While the "spinoff" Kingdom Hearts games are just as valid as numbered games, I still feel like when the Playstation gets ports of former Nintendo exclusives while Nintendo doesn't even get the rereleases and anthologies, putting Sora in is just advertising for the competition.

This is such an antiquated tribalistic "console war" of thinking that gets us nowhere in an age where Sakurai has mentioned "Play Banjo-Kazooie on Xbox One." And for reference, Kingdom Hearts has four games that debuted exclusively on Nintendo consoles: Chains of Memories, 358/2 Days, Re: Coded, and 3D: Dream Drop Distance. That's more than games than some of our first party characters have exclusive to Nintendo. The re-releases and anthologies didn't get released on Xbox One either for reference, so it's just likely that Sony holds some power there too. And again, you can be plenty unique as a character while sharing some attributes with other characters.

I know Disney can't restrict Nintendo, but Nintendo can restrict themselves.
It's not that rare to Japanese company conjecture something not really in other's mind but do whatever they thought it would be the best anyway to please the others before they get called out for it. Sometimes it works well in the result but sometimes not.
Disney is known for their family friendly manner so making them collaborate through smash with other franchises known for extreme goriness even indirectly can be an issue for a conservative company to be hesitant.

I mean, Disney is an adult company that knows what they're getting into and they're unlikely to really give a **** about putting Sora in a game with an E10+ rating since that's not really going to ever come back in a negative way on them. Like even if Doom Slayer shows up in Smash, he'll just emphasize brutality like Ridley instead of gore, and that should work just fine for both characters to get in. Disney also really ****ing likes money and advertising, so when the biggest crossover video game series in the world with a basically unparalleled prestige shows up with an offer, I don't think they're going to have too many reservations.

 

[Datboigeno]

I would prefer Geno over Sora if I had to pick an SE character because Geno hasn't appeared in a game in 20 years and would just have a more interesting moveset to me than Sora at this point considering all the other swordsmen in the game. I felt the same way about Hero before he got in and my opinion did not change at all after playing him. That style of character (sword plus some "spells") just doesn't really interest me at this point and I say this as someone who really likes Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn't Sakurai JUST tell people to go play Banjo-Kazooie games...on Xbox?

It's no longer about competition: it's about getting cool characters that people want.

Also, Terry is nothing like a Ryu/Mac hybrid. That doesn't even make sense. Burning Knuckle is not a charge attack, and Power Wave is a projectile that specifically only travels across the ground.

Ok so between this post and the last post you quoted me on I'm going to assume I've rubbed a lamp and I have to make sure that everything I say carries the literal meaning on its sleeve. Let me run back and address the whole Kingdom Hearts business first: I never said the spinoffs weren't canon. I know that Kingdom Hearts is the kind of franchise that would expect you to play the hypothetical Kingdom Hearts Pinball game to squeeze 5 seconds of lore out that becomes the entire basis of the next game. My intention there was that there's a certain level of clout that comes with being the host to the main, numbered games - the ones that newcomers to the series are gonna see and try to pick up.

As for my theorizing that Terry could be a sort of hybridized Mac/Ryu, it can't entirely not make sense if you knew exactly what moves I was referring to. Little Mac's neutral B, whose name I forget, is a charge move, yes. They did the favor of removing all commitment to it and even letting you turn it around, which I doubt Terry will get. Would you have been happier if I called it a Falcon Kick? A Wonderwing? A Flare Blitz? It's a move that very obviously sends you in a direction with a hitbox attached and you're committed to the direction as soon as you input the move. Unlike the other three moves there, he does it with his fist, and guess who else does nearly the same thing with their fist? That's right, Mii Brawler. I mean... Little Mac. But, Little Mac doesn't have a projectile and doesn't have an assumed "always face your opponent" fighting game shtick going on, so I went for the next closest character that has those two things going for him and wouldn't cause traditional fighting game fans indigestion like "Ken".

I think about things very functionally. When I first played Smash 64 and unlocked Captain Falcon, I thought he was close to a Samus clone for a variety of reasons, but the most stand-out one being that his neutral B was extremely strong but took charge time, the difference obviously being that you had to commit to a Falcon Punch where you could be smarter with a charge shot. I can spot the differences and appreciate them, but at the base level, I just tend to recognize things as functions.

This is such an antiquated tribalistic "console war" of thinking that gets us nowhere in an age where Sakurai has mentioned "Play Banjo-Kazooie on Xbox One." And for reference, Kingdom Hearts has four games that debuted exclusively on Nintendo consoles: Chains of Memories, 358/2 Days, Re: Coded, and 3D: Dream Drop Distance. That's more than games than some of our first party characters have exclusive to Nintendo. The re-releases and anthologies didn't get released on Xbox One either for reference, so it's just likely that Sony holds some power there too. And again, you can be plenty unique as a character while sharing some attributes with other characters.

Sure, maybe it's tribalism, but last I checked, Sony's still the one not really participating in this whole "big happy family" thing that Microsoft and Nintendo are chasing down. I mean, can Xbox and Switch users play Minecraft with their PS4 friends? Rocket League? To be fair, I don't keep up with it, so maybe the times have changed and Sony's not being so stuck up about crossplay.

 

[ForsakenM]

I think about things very functionally. When I first played Smash 64 and unlocked Captain Falcon, I thought he was close to a Samus clone for a variety of reasons, but the most stand-out one being that his neutral B was extremely strong but took charge time, the difference obviously being that you had to commit to a Falcon Punch where you could be smarter with a charge shot. I can spot the differences and appreciate them, but at the base level, I just tend to recognize things as functions.

You would love Marvel vs Capcom Infinite then. Nothing but functions.

 

[Deleted member]

You would love Marvel vs Capcom Infinite then. Nothing but functions.

since I played Marvel vs Capcom 2 I will never love a Marvel vs Capcom again

 

[Datboigeno]

You would love Marvel vs Capcom Infinite then. Nothing but functions.

Rats, you beat me to the joke

since I played Marvel vs Capcom 2 I will never love a Marvel vs Capcom again

Wait, as in you didn't like it?

 

[Deleted member]

Rats, you beat me to the joke



Wait, as in you didn't like it?

Nah, I loved MvC2. I've played 3 and Infinite and they feel so off.

 

[ForsakenM]

since I played Marvel vs Capcom 2 I will never love a Marvel vs Capcom again

UMvC3 was pretty good. Still secretly hoping that Capcom is saving a MvC4 reveal for Capcom Cup, X-Men and all.

Rats, you beat me to the joke

Ayeeeee~!

Also, fun fact, Serenade over here is kinda like Combofiend making that function post.

Serenade: I really only see the functions.

Everyone else: We see the characters and play them regardless of their playstyle because we love the characters.

With Combofiend, it was 'Hey, just play Captain Marvel or Nova because Magneto was nothing more than an 8-way dash'

Serenade is kinda like 'Hey, we already have an air combo function, so we don't need another one' completely missing the fact that it's Bayonetta and Sora, not 'air combo function #1' and 'air combo function #2'. I would hate for someone to not like a character just because they breakdown one aspect of their gameplay down to it's atoms like that, but that's up to you. You really are trying to break everything down to a very low level though, perhaps too low.

That would be like me showing you the differences in two T-Shirt designs and asking you which one you like better and you say 'It doesn't matter: they are both shirts so they are the same.' To take it a step further, this Sora vs Bayo thing would be more like I'm showing you two T-Shirt designs that have similar artstyles on the decal, but one is out and the other is waiting for a pre-order goal before shipping and you say 'You don't need that new shirt because you already have this shirt and they are the same.'

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I would prefer Geno over Sora if I had to pick an SE character because Geno hasn't appeared in a game in 20 years and would just have a more interesting moveset to me than Sora at this point considering all the other swordsmen in the game. I felt the same way about Hero before he got in and my opinion did not change at all after playing him. That style of character (sword plus some "spells") just doesn't really interest me at this point and I say this as someone who really likes Kingdom Hearts.

That's the beauty of the current situation, we can potentially get both!

 

[Deleted member]

UMvC3 was pretty good. Still secretly hoping that Capcom is saving a MvC4 reveal for Capcom Cup, X-Men and all.



Ayeeeee~!

Also, fun fact, Serenade over here is kinda like Combofiend making that function post.

Serenade: I really only see the functions.

Everyone else: We see the characters and play them regardless of their playstyle because we love the characters.

With Combofiend, it was 'Hey, just play Captain Marvel or Nova because Magneto was nothing more than an 8-way dash'

Serenade is kinda like 'Hey, we already have an air combo function, so we don't need another one' completely missing the fact that it's Bayonetta and Sora, not 'air combo function #1' and 'air combo function #2'. I would hate for someone to not like a character just because they breakdown one aspect of their gameplay down to it's atoms like that, but that's up to you. You really are trying to break everything down to a very low level though, perhaps too low.

That would be like me showing you the differences in two T-Shirt designs and asking you which one you like better and you say 'It doesn't matter: they are both shirts so they are the same.' To take it a step further, this Sora vs Bayo thing would be more like I'm showing you two T-Shirt designs that have similar artstyles on the decal, but one is out and the other is waiting for a pre-order goal before shipping and you say 'You don't need that new shirt because you already have this shirt and they are the same.'

oh, I guess the joke was that I have opinions similar to some controversial character.

Hey, if the character is all that matters, we should all be happy with just playing with a Mii costume, right? The moveset means something, and in Smash even the clones bring something new to the table. Honestly, I can't imagine Sora not coming with something that justifies him not just being Hero or Robin or whoever else, In the end, my arguments boil down to the same move, too - "I don't want Sora in Smash because I don't like him".

 

[EricTheGamerman]

oh, I guess the joke was that I have opinions similar to some controversial character.

Hey, if the character is all that matters, we should all be happy with just playing with a Mii costume, right? The moveset means something, and in Smash even the clones bring something new to the table. Honestly, I can't imagine Sora not coming with something that justifies him not just being Hero or Robin or whoever else, In the end, my arguments boil down to the same move, too - "I don't want Sora in Smash because I don't like him".

Wait... how the **** are you arguing that "clones bring something new to the table in Smash" and "Sora can't bring anything new to Smash" in the span of two sentences? Because I assure you, the only thing that Daisy, Dark Samus, and Richter bring to the table in Smash are the characters, so Sora can, at the very fundamental least, bring that much to the table.

Like, just say you don't like Sora from the start instead of inventing an argument that inherently contradicts itself to get there.

 

[Datboigeno]

Nah, I loved MvC2. I've played 3 and Infinite and they feel so off.

Oh interesting. MvC2 is my favorite but I also really like MvC3U. Infinite not so much.

That's the beauty of the current situation, we can potentially get both!

We could but we don't know that. We don't know how many bonus DLC characters we're going to get among how many first party vs third party characters. If we're getting like 10 or more than yeah I'd say both are possible. But if we're only getting 5 or less I'd be very skeptical that both could get in considering the fact that Nintendo seems to want to get content from a wide variety of franchises and companies.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

sup geno squad

i had a huge wall written out but im just going to make it short n sweet

ive been waiting for geno since 2006 when brawl was announced. i remember coming on here at half the age i am now to learn more about brawl after the e3 reveal and stumbling across the geno newcomer speculation thread. it was one of, if not THE most, popular threads for most wanted newcomers and inspired me to play thru smrpg for the first time

i believe that once geno is in, smash is complete. banjo was the only other character who got me to post outside of the main room i post on here in like over 5 years (i also felt he needed to come, but geno has always been my top wish), and im going to break the rule again for geno. i think yall who hav been following the speculation scene for all these years would agree that genos arrival would b everything coming full circle. hes the last dude weve all been wanting who has been awol. cloud had some other appearances in media that had clout past his original game, so did banjo, and so did nearly every other dlc fighter. but geno? hes the ultimate underdog. and every dog has its day

fun fact: in psychology, there are different schools of thought when it comes to hope. as in, what does it mean, how/why is it cultivated, and whether it falls into the classification that other emotions do. there is no consensus; some say its not an emotion but a learned concept to lift ones spirits in the face of hardship & uncertainty, others say its an idea linked with optimism, and others say that its an emotion so powerful that research has suggested it is matched only by love and anger in its passion. to share hope in seeing that gemstone of a game that brought joy to so many of us culminate in a new appearance in our favorite franchise after laying dormant for 20+ years is quite a special thing. this kind of thing doesnt happen often in ones life

i scrolled thru some of the recent pages and ive got to say i am downright moved by yalls passion for the character. i am not exaggerating when i say seeing the hype, support, artwork in your guys avatars, and discussion about him makes me feel like a kid again

this still ended up being way longer than i thought itd b but i had to get all my love out for this character out there. i think our time has come. i wouldnt b here if i didnt think it was. ive got a gut feeling about it. best of luck yall. ill b loosely following along in hopes that our boi finally gets his day in the sun

 

[maf91186]

what would Sakurai see in Sora aside from a way to attract KH fans, who would likely never enjoy Smash because it involves hitting more than one button every fight.

Oof. I'm experiencing multiple types of pain from this sentence.

 

[Zav22]

I think the big take away is, yes, Nintendo is still calling the shots. YET, Sakurai has the final say as far as "I can make this work".

The kicker I feel is, these will JUST be fighters. Maybe a new track or two, no stage. If we are continuing to get new franchises in Smash, what other franchises have not had a rep in Smash? I can name a couple.

Spike Chunsoft - Possibly Danganronpa (Monokuma, would be the craziest pick)
FromSoftware - Dark Souls
Tecmo (Koei) - Ryu Hayabusa or Lu Bu....(Hahaha who am I kidding!)
Ubisoft - Rayman
BioWare - Commander Shephard
Bethesda - Doom Slayer or Elder Scrolls rep
ProjektRed - Geralt

Do we think Nintendo would continue the route of adding new franchises? Or focus on the ones they have AFTER the fighters pass and include no other companies/franchises?

I would LOVE for monokuma to be in smash! His moveset would be insane but like Bayonetta, and Snake they'd have to tone down the violence for him to work since he could easily pull out the massacre weapons he used in the executions (which all of them made me cringe) plus I'd also love to see him do something similar to Palutenas guidance where he's interacting with the any of the cast of Ultimates from the 1,2, or 3rd games about the fighters.

As for the fighters pass, I honestly think we're gonna see both where we get some 1st parties and some third parties since I believe that at this point everyone is back up in the running but it just depends on how it's gonna go from here on out.

 

[Zav22]

Then everyone will just say that he is the exception..

He should be a unique exception of that given he's a literal STAR SPIRIT.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

putting Sora in is just advertising for the competition.

It's too late to be worried about "advertising for the competition" when you have Joker and Cloud who are both getting games exclusively for the PlayStation brand.

We could but we don't know that. We don't know how many bonus DLC characters we're going to get among how many first party vs third party characters. If we're getting like 10 or more than yeah I'd say both are possible. But if we're only getting 5 or less I'd be very skeptical that both could get in considering the fact that Nintendo seems to want to get content from a wide variety of franchises and companies.

Considering the wording Sakurai uses "The goal is moving further away" and "I'd like to continue making more character as long as I possibly can". I think we'll be getting more than 3 or 5 characters and we do have a goal as of now for 10 more characters if the WOL Dummy slot numbers do not change through updates. Geno and Sora both have great chances of making it since Sakurai is a fan of Kingdom Hearts and spoke about wanting Geno since Brawl.

 

[Shado-will]

The kicker I feel is, these will JUST be fighters. Maybe a new track or two, no stage. If we are continuing to get new franchises in Smash, what other franchises have not had a rep in Smash? I can name a couple.

Spike Chunsoft - Possibly Danganronpa (Monokuma, would be the craziest pick)
FromSoftware - Dark Souls
Tecmo (Koei) - Ryu Hayabusa or Lu Bu....(Hahaha who am I kidding!)
Ubisoft - Rayman
BioWare - Commander Shephard
Bethesda - Doom Slayer or Elder Scrolls rep
ProjektRed - Geralt

"Stop! You've violated the law!"

OBLIVION GUARD
MAKES YOU PAY WITH YOUR BLOOD

 

[ivanlerma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSHiVF3ar3Q
is this a fraud or is this a fact?

 

[Elmorethemagician]

If Geno makes it in.... I hope his idle animation is crossing his arms like in Mario RPG....
I would also be cool to see him doing his laughing animation next to Mario's thumbs up

 

[Deleted member]

Wait... how the **** are you arguing that "clones bring something new to the table in Smash" and "Sora can't bring anything new to Smash" in the span of two sentences? Because I assure you, the only thing that Daisy, Dark Samus, and Richter bring to the table in Smash are the characters, so Sora can, at the very fundamental least, bring that much to the table.

Like, just say you don't like Sora from the start instead of inventing an argument that inherently contradicts itself to get there.

Oof, not Richter, Dark Samus and Daisy, my only weak points in 20 years of clones! They totally invalidate that the other Echo fighters have at least one thing different about them, and even when Luigi, Falco, Ganon, YLink, Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Roy were just clones, they still had a lot going for them that was unique from their base character.

Basically I already admitted it, but if you want me to put it into text so you can print it and stick it on your fridge: there's no valid reason not to want any character in Smash, especially now that Sakurai has opened the floodgates. Every "reason" is just "I don't like [character]" wearing a different hat and maybe a fake mustache. To me, it sure looks a lot better and validates the other guy's opinion a little more when you put some feeling into the argument rather than letting every character discussion turn into "me no like [character], me like Geno" and ending it at that.

 

[DaxMasterix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSHiVF3ar3Q
is this a fraud or is this a fact?

Is real, it's not guarantee to happen but since it was datamined it's pretty possible to happen, longside with terry on November.

 

[JarBear]

Sakurai was pretty cryptic with “pretty much” the last mode. Even before the leak I assumed there would at least be one more at some point.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai was pretty cryptic with “pretty much” the last mode. Even before the leak I assumed there would at least be one more at some point.

I assumed his meaning was that if we got more "new modes", they'd be some kind of updated or alternate version of existing modes.

 

[Firox]

Umm...what?

Sora is a video game character. He's had manga, yes, but not before Kingdom Hearts existed on PS2.

I HATE that I need to stress this, but...

STOP THINKING SORA ISN'T POSSIBLE!!!

It's not that I expect him or I want you all to temper your hype, but rather that not a single damn thing in existence condemns his chances and yet so many of you are leaping at the opportunity to slam him with some sort of false evidence just like we did with Hero...and look how THAT turned out.

Yeah, like or not, Sora still has a shot. That said, I think the only real obstacle he has is the fact that Nintendo might be reluctant to wade through the combined legal ownership nightmare of Disney and SE. Disney is legendarily greedy, so it's hard to say how things would play out financially. The price and conditions of inclusion might be too high for Nintendo to stomach, but then again, this is purely speculation.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Is it still a possibility that SE won't want to have two DLC characters in the same game? I remember people talking about that a lot in the past when Erdrick was a rumor.

 

[Captain Fun]

Is it still a possibility that SE won't want to have two DLC characters in the same game? I remember people talking about that a lot in the past when Erdrick was a rumor.

I have no clue why Square would object. Pretty sure that was just something people used to pit characters against each other and cause drama.

 

[Deleted member]

If Geno makes it in.... I hope his idle animation is crossing his arms like in Mario RPG....
I would also be cool to see him doing his laughing animation next to Mario's thumbs up

I want his idle animation to be the one from Legacy XP

 

[Ovaltine]

I have no clue why Square would object. Pretty sure that was just something people used to pit characters against each other and cause drama.

I'd say it's a mix of that and the belief that we'd only get the Fighter's Pass, and people believed that two SE reps in one season pass was unlikely. That is more understandable to me, but not because of Square objecting. I could see Nintendo going to Square for one character for the pass itself, open to approaching again in the future if they produce more... and what do you know? They're working on more.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it still a possibility that SE won't want to have two DLC characters in the same game? I remember people talking about that a lot in the past when Erdrick was a rumor.

purely speculation because we got one DLC fighter per company in Smash 4 and so far in Ultimate, but I don't take stock in rules like that. When they introduced echo fighters I thought they'd never spend the money to license 3rd party echoes and then Richter and Ken showed up. If they want the character in, they're getting in.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

purely speculation because we got one DLC fighter per company in Smash 4 and so far in Ultimate, but I don't take stock in rules like that. When they introduced echo fighters I thought they'd never spend the money to license 3rd party echoes and then Richter and Ken showed up. If they want the character in, they're getting in.

The only certain rule for post fighter pass DLC is no non video game characters in my eyes

 

[Deleted member]

The only certain rule for post fighter pass DLC is no non video game characters in my eyes

I don't know that the fighters pass was subject to any rules that any fan, speculator, etc has ever figured out except maybe "assist trophies are dead forever". I still believe that one. Sakurai has said several times at this point that Smash is for video game characters, so of course anime and comic book characters are out of the running.

 

[Ovaltine]

The only certain rule for post fighter pass DLC is no non video game characters in my eyes

There goes my hope for my cat to Smash.

I guess he'd be too OP. His bite is something to be feared.

Here he is. How can you not want him in Smash? #StoneyforSmash !!!!!

No, I don't regularly dig for excuses to show off my kitty. That'd be silly.

 

[dalolman]

Some people are being angry at Sora's chances in Smash?

As much as I don't want him, you can't just straight up deny his chances or the possibilities of his chances. This thread is about a 20 year old character that has only been in 1 game and cameo'd in 2(Mario and Luigi and I guess I'll consider Ultimate).
Anything's possible man. K. Rool's last game before Ultimate wasn't even a Donkey Kong game.
Banjo and Kazooie haven't seen the light of day since Nuts and Bolts.
Lots of characters in Smash have only one game or have had minimal appearances. Sora's got as much of a chance as Geno does. It's surprising at all that Geno was put in Smash as a Spirit. Hopefully that's not all they wanted to negotiate out of Square though.

 

[Deleted member]

There goes my hope for my cat to Smash.

I guess he'd be too OP. His bite is something to be feared.

Here he is. How can you not want him in Smash? #StoneyforSmash !!!!!

No, I don't regularly dig for excuses to show off my kitty. That'd be silly.

He's baby. 10/10 Smash pick.

 

[Cuzeba123]

"Geno Shines Again" will always be my go-to tagline for Geno because it symbolizes his return from his 22 year MIA to the present as a "star" in Smash Bros.

Also, @EntropyAtrophy , I keep hearing about these Geno water coolers. What is that all about?

I hope it will be some line nobody saw comming despite being really clever like "Banjo-Kazooie are Raring to Go"

 

[skydogc]

Long time Genobros.
Second chances are a beautiful thing!
....for the...4th time haha

 

[Cuzeba123]

There goes my hope for my cat to Smash.

I guess he'd be too OP. His bite is something to be feared.

Here he is. How can you not want him in Smash? #StoneyforSmash !!!!!

No, I don't regularly dig for excuses to show off my kitty. That'd be silly.

Soooooo I didn't want to say it that much early... but I'm secretly a leaker and he's in

 

[Deleted member]

It's surprising at all that Geno was put in Smash as a Spirit. Hopefully that's not all they wanted to negotiate out of Square though.

it's only surprising that after all the fanfare around the Mii costume and after Sakurai acknowledging him as a popular character, he ended up in what is nebulously a graveyard for characters that have absolutely no moveset potential. My only hope for what that means is that they're going to go maximum overdrive and have his spirit become a character, and they wanted the spirit to be there so we could have him as our online avatar (I don't use it because it kind of offends me)