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I fail to see how Nintendo continuing to pick the DLC is a bad thing for us. We all assumed the worst when Sakurai said Ninty picked the DLC the first time, too, and look who we got:
the main character of a critically-acclaimed JRPG with no presence on Nintendo hardware that Sakurai happens to adore
four main protags from a legacy series beloved by Japan (including Sakurai)
a massive fan pick that singlehandedly made the pass for a good portion of the fanbase
the mascot of a classic arcade fighting game series that, again, Sakurai played the hell out of
At absolute minimum, that's three Sakurai picks out of four Fighter Pass characters. I feel people have really been underestimating the level of influence Sakurai has on the DLC selection this time, as what we've seen so far indicates that he's been given a pretty generous area of freedom by Nintendo. (Which makes total sense; it is his series, after all.)
We can't rest on our morals though, so please: Everyone spread the word. Make Videos, make art, Tweet, do what you have to do to raise awareness and remind Square we WANT Geno in Smash!
We can't rest on our morals though, so please: Everyone spread the word. Make Videos, make art, Tweet, do what you have to do to raise awareness and remind Square we WANT Geno in Smash!
While a possibility, I think that's looking rather deep into it and forging patterns that have no precedent, especially since B-K coming with misc. costumes is likely because of them belonging to a rival company. The fact that we got them alone is a miracle, considering Phil's willingness to allow it and Nintendo's desire to please fans. I can only see Terry coming with the SNK costumes, and who knows about fighter 5?
Basically, there's not a lot of room for them to reveal Geno's costume, and the perfect window to do so has already long passed with Hero. Finding patterns where none yet exist is probably not the best idea, especially since Joker and Hero 'had' a pattern that Banjo and Kazooie broke. If anything, they're the outlier, not the pattern.
The closest thing I see why Geno and Chocobo costumes weren’t there because they were promoting the upcoming DQ game as they may want to focus nothing but DQ. But then again, I don’t see costumes being a problem.
I wouldn't be worried about that column or that old quote from Furukawa-san, not at all.
Anyway, I ruminated over the possibility of the Mii costume returning, and the more I thought about it, the more skeptical I became of its likelihood. So, let's think:
Let's take a look at one of the three alternatives: Square didn't want the costume bundled with Hero, instead being reserved for later. Let's say that the reasoning here was because they wanted DQ to be represented without anything else taking away from it. Is this something they'd do? Well, let's look at how the costume was handled in the last game versus how it probably would have gone down if Geno's costume came with Hero.
Cloud's inclusion:
1) Geno and Chocobo were both released with him, with Geno not being treated as separately from Cloud as possible, instead being given fanfare as another SE Mii costume alongside Cloud's other goodies.
2) Geno's costume got a LOT of fanfare in the form of a mini-trailer and a splash screen, being the only Mii costume to ever receive it in the history of Smash, even including Ultimate.
Hero's inclusion (hypothetical):
1) Geno would have been released with Chocobo and the four DQ Mii costumes.
2) He would have had a lot less fanfare this time. He'd probably have just been treated as a normal Mii costume alongside all the rest with his own tiny segment. He would have been revealed with a whimper compared to his bombastic unveiling in Sm4sh.
See the difference? Why would they allow the Geno costume to get all of that attention and love for Cloud, specifically when they were a lot stingier with him and FF7 content in both games, but not with Hero? How would this have been a problem? It'd make no sense for Square to want to postpone that outfit. They have nothing to gain by postponing it, instead only losing another little bundle of cash. So, if anyone postponed the outfit, it would be...
Yep, Nintendo would have postponed the costume if Square likely didn't... but why? Geno's costume is a beloved one, and many were expecting it to drop with Hero. They even had room to put it with the DQ costume pack, making it a general SE pack, but they didn't. What reason would they have to do that when that's a popular costume, one that people probably would have gone to buy before the others (apart from maybe Veronica and the JIGGLE PHYSICS SLIME HAT)? The one that got its own freaking splash screen? That's just shoving away the chance to make more money. The reasons here are, as I see it, this:
1) They wanted to postpone Geno's Mii outfit for a separate release, improving the costume and adding music to it. Basically, they'd be giving it the Sans treatment.
2) They wanted to opt for Geno as a full-fledged fighter instead.
So, which of these is more likely? I'd say the latter, although the former is still a big possibility. Why would I say that, though?
Well, that's pretty simple. Look at the timing of the additional DLC being penned in and revealed, right around the time of Hero's and B-K's showcases: when Geno's outfit would have dropped. If Geno was being planned as a DLC character instead of a costume re-release, they'd have no reason to put that costume with Hero.
"But what about an improved costume?"
If Geno was going to have an improved costume, they may have had all the time in the world to make the improvements and get Yoko Shimomura or whomever else to remix a SMRPG theme or two for it all. After all, they did for Sans, and Sans required a whole new model and negotiation with a third party entirely new to Smash. Geno's outfit would have been a port with adjustments and music, plus some negotiation with a third party that's already on board for Smash Ultimate. It's something that'd likely take less time than a whole new model, new music, and negotiation with an otherwise-unrepresented third party.
"But what if Square didn't want the improved costume taking limelight from Hero?"
As stated in my prior point, that's likely not an issue. After all, they allowed that trailer and splash screen for the original costume in Sm4sh, right alongside Cloud. Why would they disallow the improved costume for that reason?
Now, why would they go for Geno as a playable character instead of a costume?
First of all, let's be real here: Square is hell when it comes to music. Even with Hero, they were only about to allow two songs, but Sakurai was able to manage a loophole and get two songs per DQ hero. Cloud only came with two songs. These are for playable characters, one of which was DLC in Sm4sh, another of which was DLC in Ultimate. Now, let me ask you this: would Square allow music to be bundled with a cheap, 75c Mii costume? If Cloud was a pricey fellow to add to the game (as confirmed by Tansut), and he only came with two songs, would they really go through the hassle to include music with a cheap Mii costume port? It just doesn't make much monetary sense.
Second of all, if they're doing additional DLC... why wouldn't they make Geno playable as opposed to the Mii costume? If they're going to make efforts to make things as Geno as Geno can get, they may as well go all the way and reap maximum profits for it, right? Make Geno a playable fighter, give him some music, charge a nice penny for him, and boom. The fans are happy, Sakurai is happy, corporate is happy, everyone is happy. Wouldn't it make more sense to get Geno's rights for a five dollar DLC release over a costume that costs less than a dollar? Yes, that means more development time, resources, and money, but in the end, the product would be that much more satisfactory for all parties involved.
Of course, all of this could be waved off by Occam's Razor (Square doesn't want Geno playable, so even with additional DLC negotiations, they had to settle for an improved costume), but I'm not so sure about how likely that scenario would be.
The conclusion? I think it's more likely that we'd get Geno as a fighter rather than an improved costume, taking in all the logic and intricacies behind the scenes... from an outsider's perspective. Of course, I don't know what Sakurai and company are doing, so I could be totally wrong, but this is my perception. I'm hoping very cautiously, and I'd say the chances of fighter: costume are at a ratio of 60:40 for me.
Let's keep in mind that DLC was in negotiations way before it's announced and Phil Spencer probably had a hand in convincing Nintendo to take Banjo & Kazooie in. We don't know what Square Enix's stance on Geno is.
I'm sure it's somewhat decent as Geno did receive a Mii costume in the last game. That's Square-Enix saying "We'll give the doll a chance to impress us, but he better not let us down Mr. Sakurai."
It sort of looks like PushDustIn has the translation on his twitter? Not entirely sure, maybe it's heavily abridged. It once again gives the "Nintendo chose the DLC Lineup for Smash Ultimate", which is so vague.
Honestly, looking back from November of last year to now, "Nintendo chose the DLC" is just a vague statement in general. Everyone just assumed it meant shill picks or whatever other bad news, but no one ever really tried to comprehend what it means. Or for that matter, what Sakurai means when he says that he determines if a fighter "works". We have Duck Hunt and a literal faceless Mario enemy, at this point I think Sakurai could make the "INSERT COIN" text from Gradius III work as a fighter.
It's the kind of statement that I wish just wouldn't be made because it raises more questions than it provides answers or excuses, especially looking back on it when taking in Joker, Banjo, and Terry being in. Nintendo decided on a character from a franchise that only spinoffs have graced their console? Nintendo said it was a great idea to advertise a competitor's console and game services? Nintendo wants to include a character from one of the most underappreciated fighting games?
Basically, Nintendo decides the lineup of fighters. They do talk and ask to me whether I can make the fighter work and it is still possible for me to say no to it too.
From this statement, I don't think Nintendo is bringing a list of characters or companies.
Japanese usually don't use a/the articles, but here Sakurai used conjunction and described "that exact fighter" is the actual thing Nintendo brought to him.
We can't rest on our moralslaurels though, so please: Everyone spread the word. Make Videos, make art, Tweet, do what you have to do to raise awareness and remind Square we WANT Geno in Smash!
Let's keep in mind that DLC was in negotiations way before it's announced and Phil Spencer probably had a hand in convincing Nintendo to take Banjo & Kazooie in. We don't know what Square Enix's stance on Geno is.
People jump to conclusions all the time, usually based off of incomplete or questionable translations. I remember the community going into panic mode because Lucas's profile on the Smash Bros. Brawl website said that Ness had been Smash "up until this point", which got people thinking that Ness had been cut from the series in Brawl.
The only thing more annoying than people thinking it was true were the people who were obnoxiously adamant that it was completely 100% true and parroted as if it was fact.
That's something that baffles me about the Smash fandom: some people picking random statements and taking such an odd 'This is the hill I wish to die on' mentality concerning it.
Some of you guys might disagree with me, but so far I find the DLC lineup a bit lackluster. Don't burn me at the stake, but I was only really excited for Banjo so far. Everyone else is just kinda niche, and I'm cool with that (being an Earthbound fan) but I hope that's not the general theme for DLC going forward.
If you don't play Persona, you likely don't know who Joker is.
If you dont play Dragon Quest, you likely dont know who Hero is.
If you never played SNK, you definitely will not know who Terry is.
I'm kinda hoping for someone a little more mainstream. Like Crash, Rayman, or Spyro. At this point, the only niche character I really want is Geno.
Didn't Sakurai mention in previous interviews that he wanted to put Geno on the roster because he was always a popular request and would have been a good fit, but couldn't because of Square being uncooperative?
How much do you all want to bet that Geno might get spot #5 if he isn't announced early next year?
There's nothing to substantiate Square Enix being the problem. All Sakurai ever said was that "it didn't become a reality." It's natural to assume Square Enix was part of the problem... but it's never been proven and there could be additional explanations for the lack of Geno in Brawl.
Hey something about terry I’m kinda curious on...does anyone else think he might have the same restrictions ryu/ken do in ultimate being from a traditional fighter and all? Like always facing their opponent in 1v1 matches making bairs a bit tricky. Or other mechanics like using his games original inputs for powered up specials?
More on topic; what lesser suggested music from smrpg do folks hope make an appearance either as part of another song similar to what banjo got, or standalone? Id probably take seaside town and nimbus land.
We know that Terry has inputs already. In the trailer, you see him crouching and seemingly receiving inputs prior to pulling off that flying forward punch move. There's a great video that demonstrates this I can't find, so I'll keep looking.
First of all, let's be real here: Square is hell when it comes to music. Even with Hero, they were only about to allow two songs, but Sakurai was able to manage a loophole and get two songs per DQ hero. Cloud only came with two songs. These are for playable characters, one of which was DLC in Sm4sh, another of which was DLC in Ultimate. Now, let me ask you this: would Square allow music to be bundled with a cheap, 75c Mii costume? If Cloud was a pricey fellow to add to the game (as confirmed by Tansut), and he only came with two songs, would they really go through the hassle to include music with a cheap Mii costume port? It just doesn't make much monetary sense.
The "Sakurai managing a loophole to get more music" just isn't true when Square Enix suggested that Sakurai include the other Dragon Quest heroes as alts though. That's where the whole Square-Enix "only allows 2 songs per game" thing fundamentally starts to fall apart. Sakurai has more or less directly acknowledged that it "would be a shame to only get a couple of songs," so I completely doubt he went in to Hero negotiations for one character and only two songs. The two songs per Hero alt exists to give completely fair representation across all the characters first and foremost. We know the DLC budget for Smash 4 was small in comparison to Smash Ultimate (look at the trailers, the advertising, the amount of detail in these characters, it's obvious), so that's why Cloud initially came with two songs (Uematsu is known to be pricey himself) and then in base game, there's a strong likelihood that pushing for more content was just too expensive for little gain. There's no inherent benefit to buying up more Final Fantasy music when it costs a fortune because of Uematsu (which does not necessarily translate to Square Enix themselves) when it just gets included in the already hefty base game. I think the circumstances of Cloud led to him only having two songs, and the circumstances of Hero led to each alt having two songs for equal representation purposes (increasing each alt's song inclusion by just 1 would put him at the most of the entire DLC cycle thus far).
Some of you guys might disagree with me, but so far I find the DLC lineup a bit lackluster. Don't burn me at the stake, but I was only really excited for Banjo so far. Everyone else is just kinda niche, and I'm cool with that (being an Earthbound fan) but I hope that's not the general theme for DLC going forward.
If you don't play Persona, you likely don't know who Joker is.
If you dont play Dragon Quest, you likely dont know who Hero is.
If you never played SNK, you definitely will not know who Terry is.
I'm kinda hoping for someone a little more mainstream. Like Crash, Rayman, or Spyro. At this point, the only niche character I really want is Geno.
I agree with not wanting this DLC to be the general trend going forward cause I also found this DLC to be lackluster but I wouldn't say the characters they chose were nobodies.
Joker comes from a highly acclaimed JRPG that a lot of people were talking about to the point it was the Game of the Year (even though that might not mean much) when it came out. Joker may not be the biggest character out there but he's not super niche either he's fairly well known and Persona 5 had a lot of buzz.
Dragon Quest has so much history and has such historical value it's insane and Nintendo is a big part of that. Sure the West may not know Dragon Quest much but over in Japan it's so big they even have multiple Dragon Quest museums and ATMs let alone stores, DQ branded stuff, Etc.
SNK I can agree I didn't know much about but looking through it's history it was up there with Capcom in it's peak and SNK has been around since the 70s. Capcom and SNK were equally the kings of arcades back then and I definitely understand why they chose Terry. SNK even still has popularity today in other markets.
But still despite all that the DLC was lackluster for me besides Banjo. It wasn't bad but it wasn't as mind-blowingly amazing as people say it was and so I personally hope they don't continue this trend.
Some of you guys might disagree with me, but so far I find the DLC lineup a bit lackluster. Don't burn me at the stake, but I was only really excited for Banjo so far. Everyone else is just kinda niche, and I'm cool with that (being an Earthbound fan) but I hope that's not the general theme for DLC going forward.
If you don't play Persona, you likely don't know who Joker is.
If you dont play Dragon Quest, you likely dont know who Hero is.
If you never played SNK, you definitely will not know who Terry is.
I'm kinda hoping for someone a little more mainstream. Like Crash, Rayman, or Spyro. At this point, the only niche character I really want is Geno.
Try looking at it another way - if you don't know who Joker is, play Persona. If you don't know who Hero is, play any of those Dragon Quest games. If you don't know who Terry is, play an SNK game.
The amount of options that you have are going to vary heavily, I'll admit. If you're sticking purely with Nintendo consoles, then Persona Q2 on the 3DS seems to be your best bet for Joker, but that's a spin-off that takes place towards the end of Persona 5's story, so I feel like that would be confusing to jump into if you haven't played Persona 5. Still, Dragon Quest 11 has a free demo on the Switch's eShop (along with Dragon Quest 8 being on the 3DS, and a region-free collection of Dragon Quest 1-3 with Japanese, English, and Chinese translations coming to the Switch in Japan), and there are a TON of SNK games on the eShop for fairly cheap. (I'd recommend King of Fighters 98 and Garou: Mark of the Wolves)
Use the inclusion of characters that you don't know about as an opportunity to expand your horizons. It got me into series like Metal Gear, Persona, Earthbound, and Fire Emblem, and I might not have considered playing those series if not for Smash Bros.
The "Sakurai managing a loophole to get more music" just isn't true when Square Enix suggested that Sakurai include the other Dragon Quest heroes as alts though. That's where the whole Square-Enix "only allows 2 songs per game" thing fundamentally starts to fall apart. Sakurai has more or less directly acknowledged that it "would be a shame to only get a couple of songs," so I completely doubt he went in to Hero negotiations for one character and only two songs. The two songs per Hero alt exists to give completely fair representation across all the characters first and foremost. We know the DLC budget for Smash 4 was small in comparison to Smash Ultimate (look at the trailers, the advertising, the amount of detail in these characters, it's obvious), so that's why Cloud initially came with two songs (Uematsu is known to be pricey himself) and then in base game, there's a strong likelihood that pushing for more content was just too expensive for little gain. There's no inherent benefit to buying up more Final Fantasy music when it costs a fortune because of Uematsu (which does not necessarily translate to Square Enix themselves) when it just gets included in the already hefty base game. I think the circumstances of Cloud led to him only having two songs, and the circumstances of Hero led to each alt having two songs for equal representation purposes (increasing each alt's song inclusion by just 1 would put him at the most of the entire DLC cycle thus far).
Ahhh, okay, I misinterpreted that bit then. Even so, I'm not sure if they'd package SMRPG music with Geno's costume, at least not remixes. Maybe, maybe the originals, but then again, BtFM didn't come with his costume in Sm4sh. Could be because of budget, yeah, but would it even be worth it to splurge for those songs for a 75c costume? That's what they'd have to consider here.
Some of you guys might disagree with me, but so far I find the DLC lineup a bit lackluster. Don't burn me at the stake, but I was only really excited for Banjo so far. Everyone else is just kinda niche, and I'm cool with that (being an Earthbound fan) but I hope that's not the general theme for DLC going forward.
If you don't play Persona, you likely don't know who Joker is.
If you dont play Dragon Quest, you likely dont know who Hero is.
If you never played SNK, you definitely will not know who Terry is.
I'm kinda hoping for someone a little more mainstream. Like Crash, Rayman, or Spyro. At this point, the only niche character I really want is Geno.
This is true of all franchises though. It's not like these platformers are all that different in the grand scheme of things. Rayman isn't exactly a household name by any stretch of the imagination, and has been completely overshadowed by the Rabbids in terms of recognition since the mid-2000s, and they aren't that popular to begin with. Banjo & Kazooie is in a worse spot overall given he didn't even make it out of 2000 for most people (you'll find Banjo fans who don't even know about the GBA games for crying out loud) and there are plenty of people who view him as meh or even more so than many of our current additions.
Then there's the issue of "what is mainstream and where is the 'mainstream.'" Is Spyro mainstream? In the US, yes, to a certain degree. In Japan? Absolutely not and he never found any success. Is SNK mainstream in the US? No, but it is in Latin America and has developed a larger following in China. Is Dragon Quest mainstream in the US? No (it's not niche either though), but in Japan??? It's a goddamn cultural touchstone that is more popular and mainstream than all three of the characters you've listed combined. There's an important aspect of popularity and "mainstream" to consider in different contexts. You can't look at everything through the US lens or even a "Western-centric" one when it comes to the popularity of these series. None of them are that niche in the grand scheme of things, with 3 of the characters coming from series that have garnered over a million sales multiple times and Terry whose sales data I can't find, but he's appeared in over 20 games that have been localized here, so that's worth something.
Ahhh, okay, I misinterpreted that bit then. Even so, I'm not sure if they'd package SMRPG music with Geno's costume, at least not remixes. Maybe, maybe the originals, but then again, BtFM didn't come with his costume in Sm4sh. Could be because of budget, yeah, but would it even be worth it to splurge for those songs for a 75c costume? That's what they'd have to consider here.
We just don't know how much the Super Mario RPG music costs to license out in the first place is the real issue. It could be dirt cheap for all we know, especially considering it doesn't have an Uematsu or a Sugiyama holding it hostage.
It's kind of a given since people have been asking Phil about Banjo & Kazooie all the time. Nintendo haven't owned them since 2001 so it's fair to assume that they would forgotten about them.
We can't rest on our morals though, so please: Everyone spread the word. Make Videos, make art, Tweet, do what you have to do to raise awareness and remind Square we WANT Geno in Smash!
I think it's really sad how many times I need to shake SE by the head and scream at them to take my money. Just do it already, Squeenix! Just say it! "Nintendo, go ahead and take this character we pretty much forgot we even own and make us some easy money." That's it! DO IT! DO IT! DO IT! (evil sith voice)
Some of you guys might disagree with me, but so far I find the DLC lineup a bit lackluster. Don't burn me at the stake, but I was only really excited for Banjo so far. Everyone else is just kinda niche, and I'm cool with that (being an Earthbound fan) but I hope that's not the general theme for DLC going forward.
If you don't play Persona, you likely don't know who Joker is.
If you dont play Dragon Quest, you likely dont know who Hero is.
If you never played SNK, you definitely will not know who Terry is.
I'm kinda hoping for someone a little more mainstream. Like Crash, Rayman, or Spyro. At this point, the only niche character I really want is Geno.
Didn't play Persona 5, knew who Joker is.
Never played Dragon Quest but you basically can't exist without knowing about Dragon Quest. I run by the rule of "if it looks like a Dragon Ball character but it's not a Dragon Ball game, it's Dragon Quest". Will only fail you if you're looking at Chrono Trigger.
Never played Fatal Fury or KoF and I know who Terry is. His Engrish is a meme from a time before memes.
Likewise, I never played Final Fantasy 7. I stay away from Street Fighter. I still haven't played Fire Emblem Fates. I've never played Wii Fit. Or Bayonetta. I never owned ROB. Never played Ice Climber before Melee. Or Earthbound. Hell, I didn't play Metroid before Melee.
There's a post a few pages back about how Nintendo's president(right?) acknowledges that Smash introduces players to Nintendo franchises and, at this point, franchises from other developers that the players may have not played. It isn't a popularity contest, and in some cases is actually the opposite.
Basically, Nintendo decides the lineup of fighters. They do talk and ask to me whether I can make the fighter work and it is still possible for me to say no to it too.
From this statement, I don't think Nintendo is bringing a list of characters or companies.
Japanese usually don't use a/the articles, but here Sakurai used conjunction and described "that exact fighter" is the actual thing Nintendo brought to him.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the process is the same as it's always been and Sakurai is saying it's out of his hands so he doesn't get inundated with requests constantly. If the choice is out of his hands and in the name of a faceless corporation, he can do what he wants without everyone harassing him constantly.
Some of you guys might disagree with me, but so far I find the DLC lineup a bit lackluster. Don't burn me at the stake, but I was only really excited for Banjo so far. Everyone else is just kinda niche, and I'm cool with that (being an Earthbound fan) but I hope that's not the general theme for DLC going forward.
If you don't play Persona, you likely don't know who Joker is.
If you dont play Dragon Quest, you likely dont know who Hero is.
If you never played SNK, you definitely will not know who Terry is.
I'm kinda hoping for someone a little more mainstream. Like Crash, Rayman, or Spyro. At this point, the only niche character I really want is Geno.
I would agree to a certain extent. We all have our own ideas as to what mainstream /Iconic means. My idea of mainstream are characters like Mario, Pikachu,Link, Sonic, Pac Man, Megaman. But there are few of these Legend tier characters left to even be added to the roster.
Only characters left I can think of are:
Lara Croft
Crash
Rayman( Maybe)
I personally don’t view any of the characters picked as iconic, or really mainstream either.
Persona is popular, but a majority of the US population has no idea who joker is. Same goes for Hero, Banjo, and Terry. The general population will probably not know the names of these characters or have never seen them.
It's kind of a given since people have been asking Phil about Banjo & Kazooie all the time. Nintendo haven't owned them since 2001 so it's fair to assume that they would forgotten about them.
Basically, Nintendo decides the lineup of fighters. They do talk and ask to me whether I can make the fighter work and it is still possible for me to say no to it too.
From this statement, I don't think Nintendo is bringing a list of characters or companies.
Japanese usually don't use a/the articles, but here Sakurai used conjunction and described "that exact fighter" is the actual thing Nintendo brought to him.
I appreciate your posting the actual Japanese. I think the average person doesn't quite realize that the language is context based and as such is often hard to translate appropriately, especially when trying to reorder words to avoid literal translations that sound like Yoda leaking Smash info. That said, I would still really appreciate folks like PushDustIn more if they would provide the original text along with their translations. Maybe they just don't want to deal with the army of know-it-alls that'll show up and tell them that their translation is suspect in one or two areas, but I appreciate the opportunity to see other people's takes on what the intention of the words are.
This means so much more than "Nintendo chose the DLC", because it reveals it to be a half truth in "it is possible for me to say no to it". In that way, Sakurai really does have the choice based on his own preference and we are just meant to assume he's a nice guy who's super fair and doesn't pick things that suit his taste exclusively.
Edit: ... I used the word "appreciate" here quite a bit. Oh well, not gonna bust out the thesaurus.
I would agree to a certain extent. We all have our own ideas as to what mainstream /Iconic means. My idea of mainstream are characters like Mario, Pikachu,Link, Sonic, Pac Man, Megaman. But there are few of these Legend tier characters left to even be added to the roster.
Only characters left I can think of are:
Lara Croft
Crash
Rayman( Maybe)
I personally don’t view any of the characters picked as iconic, or really mainstream either.
Persona is popular, but a majority of the US population has no idea who joker is. Same goes for Hero, Banjo, and Terry. The general population will probably not know the names of these characters or have never seen them.
We're unfortunately getting to an era in which the releases are so scarce, or so poorly advertised that there are kids who don't know who Mega Man is. I had the unique honor of introducing a kid to Smash last night and he didn't even know who Sonic was. I think from the point of view of children whose parents let Fortnite and Minecraft babysit them, the Smash roster is full of absolute nobodies outside of Mario and Pikachu.
I would agree to a certain extent. We all have our own ideas as to what mainstream /Iconic means. My idea of mainstream are characters like Mario, Pikachu,Link, Sonic, Pac Man, Megaman. But there are few of these Legend tier characters left to even be added to the roster.
Only characters left I can think of are:
Lara Croft
Crash
Rayman( Maybe)
I personally don’t view any of the characters picked as iconic, or really mainstream either.
Persona is popular, but a majority of the US population has no idea who joker is. Same goes for Hero, Banjo, and Terry. The general population will probably not know the names of these characters or have never seen them.
Master Chief and Sora are two great examples of characters that would fit into the same category as those listed. And I don't really think any of them measure up to Mario, Pikachu, and Pac-Man who are in a league of their own compared to who you listed.
Fans of video games probably know the characters listed more so than you imply though. There's the population of "Smash consumers" as in the people who have purchased Smash and then there's the general US population that probably on average knows very few characters at all. The characters picked for Smash are more likely to have viability in the population of "Smash owners" than the general US population, and in the "gaming" population as well.
I agree and respect what you guys have to say about the DLC fighters. Without Smash, I never would've gotten into EarthBound, so introducing lesser known franchises is always a great thing to do. I guess I was expecting more characters that would get me hype, but I just find myself not getting excited each time DLC is announced with the exception of Banjo. Nothing has really blown me away yet, but I guess I shouldn't be complaining because pretty much the same thing happened with Smash 4. Aside from veterans, I wasn't really hype for Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, or Bayonetta. For some reason, I keep expecting people like Master Chief, Doomguy, Steve, Geno, Bandana Waddle Dee, or a Sonic rep to show up.
Master Chief and Sora are two great examples of characters that would fit into the same category as those listed. And I don't really think any of them measure up to Mario, Pikachu, and Pac-Man who are in a league of their own compared to who you listed.
Fans of video games probably know the characters listed more so than you imply though. There's the population of "Smash consumers" as in the people who have purchased Smash and then there's the general US population that probably on average knows very few characters at all. The characters picked for Smash are more likely to have viability in the population of "Smash owners" than the general US population, and in the "gaming" population as well.
You know what, I forgot about Master Chief. But yea I would say he is up there with Lara Croft and Crash.
I'm a big Kingdom Hearts fan, and Sora is my number one wanted character right now. However, I wouldn't put him in the same league as Master Chief.
Although Sora has Disney backing him, its not like he has Disney "backing him". Its a series that they could do a better job at promoting.
But just to clarify, characters like Mario transcend the need to be a video game fan to recognize who he is. Sora is not at that level, he is basically like a step down from that level of fame. Id compare Mario to an A list actor versus Sora who is probably a B. Like still well known, but plenty of people wonder what a Sora is.
I agree and respect what you guys have to say about the DLC fighters. Without Smash, I never would've gotten into EarthBound, so introducing lesser known franchises is always a great thing to do. I guess I was expecting more characters that would get me hype, but I just find myself not getting excited each time DLC is announced with the exception of Banjo. Nothing has really blown me away yet, but I guess I shouldn't be complaining because pretty much the same thing happened with Smash 4. Aside from veterans, I wasn't really hype for Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, or Bayonetta. For some reason, I keep expecting people like Master Chief, Doomguy, Steve, Geno, Bandana Waddle Dee, or a Sonic rep to show up.
Don't get me wrong, I went over how I feel about the DLC and characters added in general a few pages ago. It's not fun to be left waiting to know if the character you'd be most hype for is gonna get the shaft again, and it's hard to get hype for people you barely know. Being a Geno fan is true suffering, because where Sakurai said Ridley didn't fit, here he is. Where Sakurai basically never even said a word about K. Rool, here he is, but Geno, who we all thought was on Sakurai's menu, is still nowhere to be found. My hype for the DLC is low because every time, with no exception, I have to say "maybe next time".
You know what, I forgot about Master Chief. But yea I would say he is up there with Lara Croft and Crash.
I'm a big Kingdom Hearts fan, and Sora is my number one wanted character right now. However, I wouldn't put him in the same league as Master Chief.
Although Sora has Disney backing him, its not like he has Disney "backing him". Its a series that they could do a better job at promoting.
But just to clarify, characters like Mario transcend the need to be a video game fan to recognize who he is. Sora is not at that level, he is basically like a step down from that level of fame. Id compare Mario to an A list actor versus Sora who is probably a B. Like still well known, but plenty of people wonder what a Sora is.
I mean, Sora is at least Crash level considering that Kingdom Hearts has comparable sales to the Crash Bandcioot franchise. He's a pretty recognizable icon even if he isn't Chief and Mario level. That's all I was saying.
this is a fake poll because Japan's would probably have 1 electoral vote for Sora or someone else.
Don't get me wrong, I went over how I feel about the DLC and characters added in general a few pages ago. It's not fun to be left waiting to know if the character you'd be most hype for is gonna get the shaft again, and it's hard to get hype for people you barely know. Being a Geno fan is true suffering, because where Sakurai said Ridley didn't fit, here he is. Where Sakurai basically never even said a word about K. Rool, here he is, but Geno, who we all thought was on Sakurai's menu, is still nowhere to be found. My hype for the DLC is low because every time, with no exception, I have to say "maybe next time".
And the "maybe next time" always leads to constant waiting, which leads people to lose interest over time, and a loss of interest for a character between Smash games is basically holding up a sign and saying "nobody really cares at the moment". So when a new Smash game is being developed, there's not much fan support to go off of. It's hard to keep a large, dedicated group of fans together in between Smash games because nobody knows how long it'll take for the next one to come out, it's a lot different when we know of an actual upcoming game or are in the middle of a DLC cycle like this because then everyone is on board.
Geno didn't survive the base roster, he might not survive the Fighter's Pass, and if he's not additional DLC, I feel like everyone will really give up at this point. Geno would've had too many chances to get in.
And the "maybe next time" always leads to constant waiting, which leads people to lose interest over time, and a loss of interest for a character between Smash games is basically holding up a sign and saying "nobody really cares at the moment". So when a new Smash game is being developed, there's not much fan support to go off of. It's hard to keep a large, dedicated group of fans together in between Smash games because nobody knows how long it'll take for the next one to come out, it's a lot different when we know of an actual upcoming game or are in the middle of a DLC cycle like this because then everyone is on board.
Geno didn't survive the base roster, he might not survive the Fighter's Pass, and if he's not additional DLC, I feel like everyone will really give up at this point. Geno would've had too many chances to get in.
Ridley supporters never died down, K. Rool supporters never died down, Geno supporters will never die down. I mean, look at this thread. By and far the biggest thread in Character Speculation. Being honest? If Geno doesn't make it in after this DLC, yeah, I'm giving up. It's been too long for me to keep getting my heart broken, but this struggle will never end. A new Geno fan is born every day.
Geno didn't survive the base roster, he might not survive the Fighter's Pass, and if he's not additional DLC, I feel like everyone will really give up at this point. Geno would've had too many chances to get in.
Incorrect. Sakurai could organize a direct tomorrow for the sole purpose of announcing that geno will never be put in smash, and I'll be first in the comments going "yeah, but what about geno for smash?"
