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I mean, isn't PP's case similar to other WTF picks? What did they cause more demand for?
If more mook characters were added, the appeal of Piranha Plant would diminish. I don't see what's contradictory about that. The ridiculousness of the character addition is part of the appeal.
Actually, after PP, we got a small amount of threads dedicated to various mooks and such. Whether from a franchise of a specific one. They've made noise, just not massive noise.
If Piranha Plant was Sakurai's passion project, the one character that he wanted to include in Smash Bros then I would honestly say that he has terrible taste. Again, he can do whatever he wants, but he's not shielded from people saying "That was bloody terrible." He can have his personal pick, that doesn't mean we have to like it. Doesn't mean we have to tolerate it. He open up to that decision and can't blame anyone for speaking their mind when Sakurai comes up and say "So yeah, this is the character that I really wanted. All those other characters were garbage and didn't deserve the development time to become playable. Now pay me $5 for this character that nobody wanted. That's right, Piranha Plant is worth around 10% of the base game price."
I used to have an old analog TV I would play my SNES on before I sold my game collection. I suspect as I rebuild my collection, I'll look for something similar if it's even possible to find that kind of television anymore.
That didn't stop more additions in the vein of G&W, or ICs, or any initial examples of a surprising addition which would later be doubled down upon. In fact, those examples lead to other characters in similar situations gaining popularity.
It certainly hasn't been anything sustained, like the aforementioned examples caused. There will always be exceptions, but minor ripples are not particularly reflective of larger trends towards a certain type of character in the fanbase, as those other watersheds were.
Just so we're clear, that was not meant to be a bash at all. Chaotic Evil is a Dungeons & Dragons term, and I use it with my party to describe each other in a joke way (it's a meme, not something that we invented). It's kind of like calling someone Chaotic Evil because they like pineapple on pizza, stuff like that. I thought more people were aware of it.
I recall more people hating it during announcement than now. It's moveset won some over (beats me how I think it's terrible).
I'm not saying mooks are bad, I'm saying, unlikely previous "firsts", PP hasn't tipped the scales to any notable degree in them getting more popular, which is indicative of the fanbase at large being pretty apathetic towards them. The only one widely cared about (barring mascots like Slime) is the one already on the roster, and not until they were included did that happen.
It wasn't just people saying how cool he was. He was pretty divisive, to say the least.
So what is the point exactly? Wii Fit Trainer didn't create an outpouring of support for similar characters besides Wiimote Safety Man as a joke character. Duck Hunt didn't create a demand for background characters in retro games. Not all these types of characters are going to suddenly resonate with the hardcore Smash fanbase but they don't need to.
I got the joke, but felt like this was not the best place to play it, as I think most people took it the wrong way.
You need to actually read peoples' posts. I, for one, was never bashing people for liking Plant. I was pointing out the fact that settling for generic enemies over actual characters like Geno is a disservice to him and the fanbase. Praising plant is an easy way to encourage more of the same, which I would rather not have. And I think it's funny you would call it bad sarcasm when all I did was use the exact same reasoning that you and others have used to justify the plant. My point is, there's a limit to how obscure a character can be before we cross the line into ridiculous. I'm confident that more noteworthy characters in smash would generate more hype. Plant was good, but I argue that Sakurai could have done better.
This is a completely false assumption. I never once argued the creativity behind plant, but rather plant itself. I never said that Sakurai ONLY had to do fan requests or to "throw all creativity out the window". And "standard ballot picks"? lol What's a standard ballot pick? Which character is too standard for your incredible tastes? The point I'm trying to get through to you, is why can't we apply creativity to something truly noteworthy? Something seriously hype inducing? Why can't creativity apply to Geno, or Sephiroth, or Shadow or a character that more than just Sakurai fancies? No, I ENCOURAGE creativity, but as a creator of my own craft, I also understand the importance of giving the people what they want. Being an artist is great, but if you want to actually SELL something, you would be better served to offer something that people like. As a writer, I understand the simple fact that if a story doesn't grab people's attention, it won't be read. It won't sell. Not all creativity is worthy of praise. Sorry, but it's true. Sometimes we need the input of others to truly shine. I mean, stuff like Duck hunt and ROB was a good example of creativity. A generic enemy just doesn't feel like the best Sakurai could do. It works for what it is, but if I could have chosen literally any other actual character, I would have. That's just me, and if we have to disagree, it is what it is. That's all there is to it.
That's weird, in my case it's the opposite everyone was like haha that so funny Sakurai is a genius I'm 3gonna main him except maybe ZeRo
I don't really see it as a "disservice" when it's likely he wasn't considering any main or big-time characters when wanting a character like the Plant. It's fine if you'd rather not have Plant or more characters like it, but others can praise Plant if they want. Sure, more characters like Skull Kid and Geno, a couple I also want, are likely to cause a lot more hype, but Plant was probably a just-for-fun choice. And I don't know about other people, but I couldn't give a single crap about whether Plant or other characters are recognizable or not; that's not why I like or want them, and not why I defend them as characters. When did I bring up how recognizable it is, or Sakurai's creativity? I was just suggesting Sakurai likely chose it without thinking of other characters for the same spot aside from maybe other mooks/enemies. I called your sarcasm "bad," because it was very unnecessary, annoying, and I didn't see how it mattered with my point.
If Hell Freezes over and someone like Bubsy gets in Smash, i will bet my soul that people WILL defend his inclusion.
I am pretty sure he has a support thread, so you are not wrong. Difference here is that Bubsy is already a hated character. Doubt many people despised the PP species to the same extent as Bubsy pre Smash inclusion.
I mean, in terms of this logic, we could say one of the cows at Lon Lon Ranch is a character. Or one of the Djinns from Golden Sun. I think I should specify the implied meaning of an "actual" character. An "actual" character is typically unique in both name and appearance. There is only one Super Mario and we all know what he looks like. When I say the name "Geno" there's no ambiguity over who I'm talking about. Shantae, Shadow, Ness, Falco and Megaman are all "actual" characters in that they each have distinct looks, names and personalities. Granted, CHARACTERIZATION can vary as to the depth of said characters but each is iconic in a way far more profound than the hordes of enemies they fight. In the context of generic enemies, however, they have neither individual names, personalities or distinctive features from one to another. They are more of obstacles to the protagonist than actual characters. For example, if I asked someone who their favorite Batman character was, I could guarantee you 1000% that their answer would NEVER be Joker's henchman #3.
Nope. Apparently, you didn't.
And those are all characters in a game in every single case. There is no such thing as "actual" characters. Everybody is a character. That's a large technicality to ignore that every member of a species you come across is a fictional character. It's literally one "being" that counts as a character. They are still individuals. They are non-notable individuals in general, which is a different thing. But what you're mainly describing isn't "actual character" but "notable character".
So he's a notable character among tons of characters. It's not rocket science in that regard. You don't need to try so hard to dismiss a character. If you don't feel they're notable enough to be playable in Smash, that's fine. But trying to make up silly definitions that go against how game design and writing works is pointless and doesn't actually bolster your point. It's clear that being a character in a game was all that's needed to be playable. I don't know why people think otherwise when we see it plain as day. Also, Piranha Plant is a specific name. So yeah, that's pretty named to begin with. It's a distinctive enough name alone. What, you thought it was anymore special of a name than Pikachu, who is just a species name? Or Villager? Pokemon Trainer?
To be fair people don't hate tables, but if a generic table became playable in Smash people would hate it too.
It's not a gag character either. That's more what Pichu and Jigglypuff were meant to be(though the term joke character is more common as the used phrase). It's a surprise character meant to be fun, but also show that there's characters beyond regular heroes and villains. So yes, it is meant to represent something. I mean, Sakurai said it so himself.
But the PP is a creature with history, not some item with nothing of note.
Exactly, because I didn’t say what you said I was saying.
Call it whatever you want. "Notable" character or "actual" character, you're the only one getting bent out of shape over silly definitions and word choice. My points still stand that PP was not a notable character prior to its inclusion, and no, "Piranha Plant" isn't a name. It's a species like cow, cucco, horse, etc. I concede that the pokemon also sort of fall into this category, however, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario and Ash-Greninja all already have an established lore and personality behind them. Plus pokemon are a slightly different story since they are all playable characters in their respective games as opposed to the generic baddies of Mario and Zelda. If you want to defend his inclusion to suit your tastes, be my guest. It doesn't change the fact that Geno would have been a better choice than PP.
The point I was going for is that there was no hate because it was beneath suspicion. Of people don't think you have a shot they won't hate. Hence why the mere mention of Katalina had people frothing at the mouths when she was leaked, but nobody cares now that she was debunked.
I guess I could see that, but a lot of people seemed to have a "I didn't know I wanted this" reaction, so I guess it goes both ways. You can't have any sort of view if it is not on your radar. It's not limited to just hate.
It's a fictional character in a game given an actual name to represent what it is.
Wanting a character like a Bulborb in Smash is just ridiculous.
While I would feel slightly sad about no cinematic, it would be hilarious considering all of the people who thought it was Geno. It would once again prove that Sakurai is more in tune with the memes than we know. And hey, the lack of cinematics would make sense if Geno was some sort of bonus.
I once thought of or saw the idea that Louie could use Bulbmin in Smash, but just a Bulbmin on its own sounds perfectBulbmin gang is where it's at.
I want to remind you that PP did NOT have a personality prior to smash. It was a clump of pixels in the rough shape of a venus fly trap that popped in and out of warp pipes, snapping its jaws open and closed like a robot. If you call that personality then I see no point in continuing this conversation.
Your first sentence here is a blatant assumption with no proof whatsoever. To my knowledge, NOBODY knows the inner workings of Sakurai and his superiors, let alone the true reasoning behind why Geno hasn't yet been included in Smash. Your second sentence is just plain false. You mean to tell me that you, nor anyone else here, would consider Geno EVER getting in as a surprise?! Holy hell, THAT would be the surprise of a lifetime right beside Banjo-Kazooie. All I gotta say is, for a Geno support thread, I'm seeing some pretty sad support. For laughs and giggles, I'm curious where our loyalties lie.
I have compiled a list of 20 characters I would cut just to get Geno and Isaac, 18 if you don't count echoes. Even more considering I would make a lot of "semi-clones" alt costumes as well.
In a heartbeat, not even a question.
