Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CannonStreak]

Not much. Discussing some guy on Twitter. Did you watch the direct?

You bet I did! Not much into Pokemon, but that was a great Direct! Worthy of coming before a regular Direct!

Who is this guy on Twitter, by the way?

 

[Firox]

At the same time though, it’s Cloud Strife, whose waves in the general gaming community would have far outweighed Geno by any measure (and the latter was a bombshell for its own reasons).
Hero and DQ... doesn’t have quite the international recognisability to have this pulled off successfully twice.

I suppose. But now that both Hero AND Cloud are in, I see no reason not to add Geno unless they simply refuse to. Bringing back Geno and Chocobo for a non-SE character would just feel really off-color.

 

[RingJ5]

2200, nice!

 

[Deleted member]

You bet I did! Not much into Pokemon, but that was a great Direct! Worthy of coming before a regular Direct!

Who is this guy on Twitter, by the way?

I liked the Mystery Dungeon announcement. Not to keen on Sword and Shield though. I don’t really know he seems to be a fairly unknown person. Here’s his twitter page. https://twitter.com/Newmarkomaro

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm really having trouble with the idea that Hero's presentation was "DQ specific". While I haven't watched it since July, Hero's presentation seemed to focus on DQ no more than Banjo or Terry's presentations focused on their respective series' to me. Banjo's was maybe a bit more focused on other things being added to the game, but that was also tacked on at the end of a direct, so it could be believed that Nintendo requested more be shown off in that presentation for that reason.

Is there non-DQ content in it? No? It's literally DQ-specific. Terry is also a mutli-franchise combo due to SNK having its own crossover series. But it had non-SNK costumes if I remember right, so it's not Terry-specific. Like, it's literally impossible to say it isn't DQ-specific when 100% of the content is DQ. There's really nothing special to get here. Whatever reason they had, they dedicated it solely to DQ. That's literally what happened. Was it the right decision? Maybe. Seems like it was an advertising reason, as they really wanted to push DQ to the US a lot lately. Including non-DQ content pushes away from that idea. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a conscious effort among all 3 parties(Sakurai, Square-Enix, and Nintendo) to do so. Look at Luminary, who became the face entirely. That's clearly to help sell DQXI, the latest one, but it's also the latest face and is easiest to recognize worldwide. A lot of this makes a lot of sense.

Honestly though, all this seems to be built too much on the idea that Square was very demanding about DQ only. Hell, we got Geno's costume in Smash 4 with Cloud, so I don't really see why Square had suddenly got more ornery on characters releasing with content not related to their series. And I honestly just don't see why Nintendo would care. I get that they have stake in wanting DQ to be promoted but I just don't see why they'd hold off the Geno costume because of that.

Cloud was not in a major presentation either to the same degree. The presentations in Ultimate are completely new to the Smash series. The ones in 4 were significantly less notable. He had nowhere near what Hero did. Geno being a more noted costume doesn't say much when we actually got Splash screens for other costumes to some degree, including Sans who is the most notable one yet. He's the best costume screen too(Geno) of course, but that seems more like Sakurai really caring than anything else. It doesn't actually say much since we can't say Geno will be playable, but may be. In fact, Joker, the weakest presentation in Ultimate, still was pretty big overall in the information it gave.

Also, as mentioned above, Final Fantasy can afford costumes like Geno since Cloud was still the bigger part. Dragon Quest has had trouble selling in the West and can't afford non-DQ stuff, since that only hurts the presentation's purpose, which is clearly to help push the franchise. As I said, it makes a lot of sense to do what they did.

Also, if that Mii costume list is 100% correct (which I'm inclined to believe that it is), that means Square not only licensed Chocobo to return but also licensed two other Mario RPG costumes to return as well. Meaning that the issue of them never being licensed in the 1st place was never really an issue at all.

Well, the licensing thing is just one possible issue of why it might not come back. Not saying licensing caused it, but could have caused it. It's just a realistic theory of what could happen, that's all. I wouldn't take a leak as strong evidence, though. We can't say that leak is real either, so it doesn't really prove anything. If it is real, then obviously the theory is wrong. If it's fake, the theory may or may not be wrong.

 

[CannonStreak]

I liked the Mystery Dungeon announcement. Not to keen on Sword and Shield though. I don’t really know he seems to be a fairly unknown person. Here’s his twitter page. https://twitter.com/Newmarkomaro

So why are we talking about this guy again?

 

[Deleted member]

So why are we talking about this guy again?

He called a new Mystery Dungeon. But, he didnt specifically say a remake, so make of it as you will.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What's the significance of January 2013 tho?

January 2013 had a stupidly good Direct that basically knocked everyone on their ass.

-Virtual console dump with a bunch of super popular games
-Mario Kart 8 tease
-Earthbound dump for the 19th anniversary
-First tease of Smash 4
-Bayonetta 2 tease
-Yoshi's Wooly World
-Super Mario 3D World tease
-Breath of the Wild tease
-Wind Waker HD
-SMT x Fire Emblem tease
-Xenoblade Chronicles X tease

It was a stupid good Direct that everyone gushed about for months afterwards.

 

[Droodle]

I suppose. But now that both Hero AND Cloud are in, I see no reason not to add Geno unless they simply refuse to. Bringing back Geno and Chocobo for a non-SE character would just feel really off-color.

There's Sora, who would be Cloud 2.0 in terms of popularity. Technically Disney, but he would most likely come with SE costumes. Sora or Waluigi are probably the most likely characters that could come with Geno's costume.

2B and Lara Croft, even if they aren't as demanded would probably make a good amount of sense as well. Although I think they lack a Nintendo appearance.

 

[Deleted member]

January 2013 had a stupidly good Direct that basically knocked everyone on their ass.

-Virtual console dump with a bunch of super popular games
-Mario Kart 8 tease
-Earthbound dump for the 19th anniversary
-First tease of Smash 4
-Bayonetta 2 tease
-Super Mario 3D World tease
-Breath of the Wild tease
-Wind Waker HD
-SMT x Fire Emblem tease
-Xenoblade Chronicles X tease

It was a stupid good Direct that everyone gushed about for months afterwards.

Hey, maybe it’ll be the same. Some surprising and awesome reveals?

 

[DIY]

Page 2200! Incredible to see how far we've all come.

 

[OffBi]

We are in the future of 2200

 

[MisterMike]

WOO! 2200 PAGES!

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

About the pokemon direct, it looked aite enough, PMD remake is awesome, and I'm always down for more Regi's. However, I'm far less than pleased (but not remotely surprised) with the return of all those old legendaries. *War flashbacks of Landorous in PvP*

Hey, maybe it’ll be the same. Some surprising and awesome reveals?

A guy can hope.

Also sweet page 2200

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

2B and Lara Croft, even if they aren't as demanded would probably make a good amount of sense as well. Although I think they lack a Nintendo appearance.

2B actually has gotten one, but not before the Fighter's Pass, which is when she'd be grabbed.

We already know that you don't need a Nintendo appearance to actually be chosen, so that's a moot point. If anything, they'd have to censor her lowers first before she had a chance to get in.

Lara Croft had quite a few Nintendo games, so that's a moot issue. That, and she's more likely due to being a much bigger gaming icon than 2B. But being a bigger gaming icon isn't the whole story, as we're aware with Banjo getting in over Steve and Chief. Sometimes that can be the opposite, with Cloud over Geno.

I suppose. But now that both Hero AND Cloud are in, I see no reason not to add Geno unless they simply refuse to. Bringing back Geno and Chocobo for a non-SE character would just feel really off-color.

That said, they can bring Geno and Chocobo costumes with practically anyone. It "must be with a SE" thing, basically, is trying to force a rule that doesn't exist. When something is done, it'll have logic to it. Not logic one can agree with, but nothing is done randomly. So I wouldn't put weight into a rule that doesn't exist. We already know there's no clear pattern to costumes either. They have shown to have a plan, just not one we fully understand. Banjo's costumes are hard to say, but if people look hard enough, they could justify it.

 

[Droodle]

Hey, maybe it’ll be the same. Some surprising and awesome reveals?

I think it'll be a big direct, but that's not exactly hard to guess. Nintendo has barely shown anything off for next year, even though we know plenty of things.

I mean look at the potential things we can see that have already been announced:
- BoTW 2
- XC DE
- SMT
- NMH 3
- FE:TH Story DLC
- Bayonetta 3
- Metroid Prime 4
- Animal Crossing
- Bravely Default

Add some likely announcements as well:
- A new Mario game.
- A couple ports
- A new Splatoon project.

And throw in a couple wild cards, and you have the potential for an amazing direct.

Obviously not all of these things will be shown, but as you can see they already have some games that people have been dying to see.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it'll be a big direct, but that's not exactly hard to guess. Nintendo has barely shown anything off for next year, even though we know plenty of things.

I mean look at the potential things we can see that have already been announced:
- BoTW 2
- XC DE
- SMT
- NMH 3
- FE:TH Story DLC
- Bayonetta 3
- Metroid Prime 4
- Animal Crossing
- Bravely Default

Add some likely announcements as well:
- A new Mario game.
- A couple ports
- A new Splatoon project.

And throw in a couple wild cards, and you have the potential for an amazing direct.

Obviously not all of these things will be shown, but as you can see they already have some games that people have been dying to see.

Right. I don’t think we’ll see MP4 until 2021 though.

 

[Firox]

There's Sora, who would be Cloud 2.0 in terms of popularity. Technically Disney, but he would most likely come with SE costumes. Sora or Waluigi are probably the most likely characters that could come with Geno's costume.

2B and Lara Croft, even if they aren't as demanded would probably make a good amount of sense as well. Although I think they lack a Nintendo appearance.

I think a lot of this is riding on the Mii Costume leak. If that list is legit, Geno would be way more likely than any of these other potential SE characters.

That said, they can bring Geno and Chocobo costumes with practically anyone. It "must be with a SE" thing, basically, is trying to force a rule that doesn't exist. When something is done, it'll have logic to it

Firstly, I never said having another SE character was a rule. I'm simply saying my opinion that Geno and Chocobo are pointing to the likelihood of another SE rep. Secondly, I find it highly ironic that you would start spouting off about logic when that's exactly what I'm trying to point toward in the first place. It's LOGICAL to assume that Chocobo (a recognizable creature from SE's biggest franchise) and Geno (arguably the highest fan demanded SE character within the realm of Smash fandom) would be, at very least, released beside another notable and/or relevant SE character. To assume otherwise would be ILLOGICAL and frankly a huge disservice to both Geno and his entire fandom. Tagging his costume to a random, unrelated character would basically be a statement of indifference on the part of Sakurai and I really couldn't see a justification to it other than to cash in on the already-existing costume and nothing more. I'll grant you that there could be an underlying logic we may not agree with, but if no one can agree with a certain "logic" how can you be sure there even IS one? Or at least a good one? Something can make sense and still be a stupid decision.

 

[Xigger]

What's the significance of January 2013 tho?

Maybe it’s in reference to how in January 2013 there was a Pokemon direct followed by a general direct

Just wanted to highlight this. Nintendo has been known for being very predictable with dates. Ask any Youtuber who knows when to avoid the annual video takedowns, or check the Nintendo Direct Wikipedia.

Happy 2200!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think a lot of this is riding on the Mii Costume leak. If that list is legit, Geno would be way more likely than any of these other potential SE characters.

Agreed. I hope it's true, even if Geno is still a costume. Costume or playable I'll take. Either way I am playing a model of Geno and that makes me happy enough.

I get some aren't happy with costumes either. Though if someone is an AT, I will gladly take a costume if them being fully playable is not an option. I need to unlock the Isaac costume still...

 

[AdamBel731]

Interesting. Didn't realize this guy came out and said some of these. I can also confirm the Fire Emblem 6+7 rumor so there's your third. Haven't personally heard the others he's mentioned outside of the Wii U ports.

Is this guy credible you'd say, Fatman? Because... a NEW DKC GAME WOULD MAKE ME GO "BANANAS" (or ape)! Hopefully King K. Rool will be the villain.

Reposting this because it lines up perfectly with my New Year's Eve theory and, if I'm correct, the "February/March" character is referring to 6. My source's coyness makes me further my theory about 6 and beyond being hard steers back to big fan favorite characters because I don't get why they would tease it otherwise. As noted for almost two months now, I don't believe Geno is 6 but 6 will still be a big deal.

...so... you actually think that Purple Pie Man is happening (being serious)? Because... I'd love that no joke.

...though the internet exploding if the Wah got in would be a glorious sight to behold.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Is there non-DQ content in it? No? It's literally DQ-specific. Terry is also a mutli-franchise combo due to SNK having its own crossover series. But it had non-SNK costumes if I remember right, so it's not Terry-specific. Like, it's literally impossible to say it isn't DQ-specific when 100% of the content is DQ. There's really nothing special to get here. Whatever reason they had, they dedicated it solely to DQ. That's literally what happened. Was it the right decision? Maybe. Seems like it was an advertising reason, as they really wanted to push DQ to the US a lot lately. Including non-DQ content pushes away from that idea. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a conscious effort among all 3 parties(Sakurai, Square-Enix, and Nintendo) to do so. Look at Luminary, who became the face entirely. That's clearly to help sell DQXI, the latest one, but it's also the latest face and is easiest to recognize worldwide. A lot of this makes a lot of sense.

Most of SNK's franchises are intertwined to a much higher degree than any of Square's. SNK's franchises as a whole can be sort of one big crossover due to KoF. Terry's only non-SNK content was the Virtua Fighter Mii Costumes, but I feel like at the same time, we can't really be using Mii costumes to determine whether or not a presentation is supposed to be specific to one franchise/character. This whole debate was started on the pondering as to why exactly Geno and Chocobo were missing from DQ's presentation. It feels like a catch 22 in a way to prove how Hero's presentation was more DQ centric than Terry's was SNK centric simply due to the difference in the Mii costumes released when the whole thing we're trying to prove is the logic behind Mii costume releases.

Cloud was not in a major presentation either to the same degree. The presentations in Ultimate are completely new to the Smash series. The ones in 4 were significantly less notable. He had nowhere near what Hero did. Geno being a more noted costume doesn't say much when we actually got Splash screens for other costumes to some degree, including Sans who is the most notable one yet. He's the best costume screen too(Geno) of course, but that seems more like Sakurai really caring than anything else. It doesn't actually say much since we can't say Geno will be playable, but may be. In fact, Joker, the weakest presentation in Ultimate, still was pretty big overall in the information it gave.

Also, as mentioned above, Final Fantasy can afford costumes like Geno since Cloud was still the bigger part. Dragon Quest has had trouble selling in the West and can't afford non-DQ stuff, since that only hurts the presentation's purpose, which is clearly to help push the franchise. As I said, it makes a lot of sense to do what they did.

I feel as though Smash reveals are still Smash reveals. Yeah, Cloud's release was different from Hero's, but I really doubt Square would care very much as to how different the style of presentation is seeing as how we're already assuming they can already be rather ornery about what gets revealed with what

It is true that DQ generally does poorly in the West especially when compared to Final Fantasy. But I doubt that 2 Mii Costumes would have done much of anything to hurt DQ 11's performance in the West. Some may try to argue that Sans overshadowing both Banjo and Terry disproves this, but this happened after Hero was released, so there was no precedent for it. Not to mention Sans was the meme character of meme characters and we all know how the internet handles memes.

Well, the licensing thing is just one possible issue of why it might not come back. Not saying licensing caused it, but could have caused it. It's just a realistic theory of what could happen, that's all. I wouldn't take a leak as strong evidence, though. We can't say that leak is real either, so it doesn't really prove anything. If it is real, then obviously the theory is wrong. If it's fake, the theory may or may not be wrong.

I agree, I'm just more inclined to believe the leak is accurate than not, but I completely agree with you that leaks shouldn't be taken as 100% and I probably phrased that a bit poorly in my post. What I meant was we already know the leak was partially correct, so if the whole of it is correct then that debunks the licensing issue.

I also would like to say that your reasoning as to why Geno may not be a fighter is far from impossible from being the actual case. I'm just expressing my views on what's going on with the oddities surrounding Geno at the moment. You could still be 100% correct, but I just have my own theories and speculation that I'd like to express as well. At the end of the day, we really just have a different frame of mind and that's 100% okay!

Also 2200 pages woooo!

 

[Deleted member]

Is this guy credible you'd say, Fatman? Because... a NEW DKC GAME WOULD MAKE ME GO "BANANAS" (or ape)! Hopefully King K. Rool will be the villain.View attachment 256464


...so... you actually think that Purple Pie Man is happening (being serious)? Because... I'd love that no joke.

...though the internet exploding if the Wah got in would be a glorious sight to behold.

Same, bro. I NEED a new DK game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Most of SNK's franchises are intertwined to a much higher degree than any of Square's. SNK's franchises as a whole can be sort of one big crossover due to KoF. Terry's only non-SNK content was the Virtua Fighter Mii Costumes, but I feel like at the same time, we can't really be using Mii costumes to determine whether or not a presentation is supposed to be specific to one franchise/character. This whole debate was started on the pondering as to why exactly Geno and Chocobo were missing from DQ's presentation. It feels like a catch 22 in a way to prove how Hero's presentation was more DQ centric than Terry's was SNK centric simply due to the difference in the Mii costumes released when the whole thing we're trying to prove is the logic behind Mii costume releases.

SNK doesn't also need selling in the West, still doing pretty well. Why are you saying "more DQ-centric" either? It's literally pure DQ-centric. You're right it's a catch 22, but that's the thing. They both sufficiently answer why the costumes aren't there. They aren't DQ. Simple as that.

If you're wondering why the chose that, I agree that's a good question(I gave some theories). It's kind of pointless to compare it to other presentations though. Those were clearly not done the same way and we know DQ needs to sell on its own, anyway. You don't have that issue with any other presentation since those all had better Western appearances anyway. These are worldwide directs. So yeah, if you want a really good reason, it's DQ needs to be its own thing to really sell to the west. That's a non-catch 22 reasoning.

I feel as though Smash reveals are still Smash reveals. Yeah, Cloud's release was different from Hero's, but I really doubt Square would care very much as to how different the style of presentation is seeing as how we're already assuming they can already be rather ornery about what gets revealed with what

It is true that DQ generally does poorly in the West especially when compared to Final Fantasy. But I doubt that 2 Mii Costumes would have done much of anything to hurt DQ 11's performance in the West. Some may try to argue that Sans overshadowing both Banjo and Terry disproves this, but this happened after Hero was released, so there was no precedent for it. Not to mention Sans was the meme character of meme characters and we all know how the internet handles memes.

They would've done a lot. One is a FF costume and one is a SMRPG costume. They super take away from DQ itself. Remember what I said about Sans... or did I say it? It took away a lot for Banjo-Kazooie directly. It actually made a huge splash in the same way. They had no clue it would do that, but they also weren't trying to sell Banjo games much to the West, so it didn't matter anyway. Reality is they're just different presentations with different designs behind them. They aren't pattern-based.

I agree, I'm just more inclined to believe the leak is accurate than not, but I completely agree with you that leaks shouldn't be taken as 100% and I probably phrased that a bit poorly in my post. What I meant was we already know the leak was partially correct, so if the whole of it is correct then that debunks the licensing issue.

I also would like to say that your reasoning as to why Geno may not be a fighter is far from impossible from being the actual case. I'm just expressing my views on what's going on with the oddities surrounding Geno at the moment. You could still be 100% correct, but I just have my own theories and speculation that I'd like to express as well. At the end of the day, we really just have a different frame of mind and that's 100% okay!

Also 2200 pages woooo!

I lean towards the Cacomallow leak being real, but I don't think it inherently leaks towards Geno being playable. That's not something shown so we can't known at all. Though the question is why would a Mallow and Cacodemon costume be in the same presentation? Best answer is there's no rules other than what they think of at the time, so often arbitrary. And while I'm not banking on Geno being playable, I can still hope for it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

AdamBel731 Markomaro has a mixed bag of a track record because he reports on all the rumors that come his way. His rumors, however, are of a more official capacity because he's a business analyst so it's not like Laxchris who reports on, well, everything.

 

[AdamBel731]

AdamBel731 Markomaro has a mixed bag of a track record because he reports on all the rumors that come his way. His rumors, however, are of a more official capacity because he's a business analyst so it's not like Laxchris who reports on, well, everything.

I see. Without going into specifics, have you heard at least some of the stuff he has heard?

(Also, you didn't address my question on "Purple Pie Man.")

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Just finished talking to Fatman in private.

While I still am highly skeptical on the legitimacy of his rumors, I have come to an understanding on why he goes about things the way that he does.

Basically an answer to what I was puzzled about earlier. (Why he is mentioning rumors, but Verge and Sabi are dead quiet)

 

[xNovaNebulax]

2200 :D woop

 

[Deleted member]

Hopping in here real quick to address the Purple Pie Man. Fatmanonice why do you call "Purple Pie Man" that? Don't you know that he's the purple taco man? He's a very esteemed taco stand owner and taco maker as shown here:

The dude and his tacos deserve respect SMH get your Taco Man lore right.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Why are you saying "more DQ-centric" either? It's literally pure DQ-centric.

Apologies again, poor phrasing on my part. I guess I've just been tired of typing "DQ only".

You're right it's a catch 22, but that's the thing. They both sufficiently answer why the costumes aren't there. They aren't DQ. Simple as that.

That's just the things, sure it does explain it, but it just doesn't seem to have very much basis. Sure, it could explain why Geno and Chocobo were not present in Hero's presentation, but I feel as though there's not very much of a basis for that, seeing as how it focused on DQ about as much Terry's did focus on SNK if we're not counting, well, the Mii Costumes.
That's the thing about speculation though, I could still very much be wrong, but we'll have no way of really knowing that until either Geno is revealed as a costume or Mii Fighter (Or, God forbid, not at all).

They would've done a lot. One is a FF costume and one is a SMRPG costume. They super take away from DQ itself. Remember what I said about Sans... or did I say it? It took away a lot for Banjo-Kazooie directly. It actually made a huge splash in the same way. They had no clue it would do that, but they also weren't trying to sell Banjo games much to the West, so it didn't matter anyway. Reality is they're just different presentations with different designs behind them. They aren't pattern-based.

I just feel as though Geno and Chocobo's Mii costumes wouldn't have made anywhere near as much of a ripple as anything near to what Sans did. I and, from what I observed at the time, many others were really just taking it as a given that Geno and Chocobo were coming with Hero. I could see maybe a bit of fuss over it, but nothing that would harm DQ very much. Maybe Square and/or Nintendo saw things differently, but I just don't see it.

I lean towards the Cacomallow leak being real, but I don't think it inherently leaks towards Geno being playable. That's not something shown so we can't known at all. Though the question is why would a Mallow and Cacodemon costume be in the same presentation? Best answer is there's no rules other than what they think of at the time, so often arbitrary. And while I'm not banking on Geno being playable, I can still hope for it.

I do think that if Cacomallow is real then it gives Geno a better shot at being playable but also nowhere near guarantees him. We can't say for certain if Cacodemon and Mallow would be shown off in the same presentation as we don't know the dev cycle of Mii costumes, so we're a bit in the dark in that regard. I understand why you wouldn't bank on Geno being in. I've seen Geno's chances being jerked around since Ultimate's announcement (and probably in prior Smash games too, but alas, I never payed attention as much in those days) I feel like, at the end of the day, we just have to agree to disagree on our reasoning for Geno's chances and our frame of mind when it comes to Smash speculation.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I see. Without going into specifics, have you heard at least some of the stuff he has heard?

(Also, you didn't address my question on "Purple Pie Man.")

I have. Like I said, I've heard the same Wii U port rumors he has and the Fire Emblem rumors.

As for Long Purple Don being 6, I'm pretty confident based on my own speculation. Of my four contacts, only one has a hard guess for 6 and they think it's Geno. Ironically, I don't agree.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Apologies again, poor phrasing on my part. I guess I've just been tired of typing "DQ only".

I mean they aren't equivalents cause they serve different purposes. Regardless, I get what you mean.

That's just the things, sure it does explain it, but it just doesn't seem to have very much basis. Sure, it could explain why Geno and Chocobo were not present in Hero's presentation, but I feel as though there's not very much of a basis for that, seeing as how it focused on DQ about as much Terry's did focus on SNK if we're not counting, well, the Mii Costumes.

I repeat these are false equivalencies. Terry is from a giant franchise that is crossover-based. It focused on its full franchise. In addition, didn't it have costumes not related to SNK? Or did I get that wrong.

But even then, if it's pure SNK, then they were treated the same. Pure SNK.

There is a huge basis for making it pure DQ, though. They need to hard sell it to the West and anything non-DQ takes away from that. We know that SE has had trouble with this and has talked about it. This is the most logical reason. The real question is who decided it's a good idea. Nintendo? Sakurai? SE? 2 of them? All 3?

That's the thing about speculation though, I could still very much be wrong, but we'll have no way of really knowing that until either Geno is revealed as a costume or Mii Fighter (Or, God forbid, not at all).

Yeah, any of 'em could happen, true.

I just feel as though Geno and Chocobo's Mii costumes wouldn't have made anywhere near as much of a ripple as anything near to what Sans did. I and, from what I observed at the time, many others were really just taking it as a given that Geno and Chocobo were coming with Hero. I could see maybe a bit of fuss over it, but nothing that would harm DQ very much. Maybe Square and/or Nintendo saw things differently, but I just don't see it.

Because just what you said is exactly the point. People didn't care enough about DQ alone, trying to tie other things to it than are unrelated. Then it was pure DQ, essentially making sure people only care about it. So in a way, your point about the fuss proves it was a smart choice. Also, can't disagree more. It inherently takes away from them trying to focus on DQ only sales and talk. That's what they want and need right now. Which again, they've actually spoken on this. That's enough of a reason to keep it pure DQ. Nintendo is well aware of this. Look at how Sakurai literally advertised DQXI Definite Edition. It was clearly based around advertising the series. Anything non-DQ blatantly would take away from that point. It's a marketing tactic, simply put.

I do think that if Cacomallow is real then it gives Geno a better shot at being playable but also nowhere near guarantees him. We can't say for certain if Cacodemon and Mallow would be shown off in the same presentation as we don't know the dev cycle of Mii costumes, so we're a bit in the dark in that regard. I understand why you wouldn't bank on Geno being in. I've seen Geno's chances being jerked around since Ultimate's announcement (and probably in prior Smash games too, but alas, I never payed attention as much in those days) I feel like, at the end of the day, we just have to agree to disagree on our reasoning for Geno's chances and our frame of mind when it comes to Smash speculation.

On the other hand, the costumes being in the same leak is suspicious if they don't come together. Why would they be developed with each other if they're not tied? Who knows. Not saying it's impossible, but the leak is implying they're together in itself. Why not show them in separate videos if they didn't want to put them together. That's important too.

Real or not is irrelevant to the presentation, of course. And it's worth noting that the modders have gotten jiggle physics down, but something I really do agree with though I responded poorly to its point last time is that people can't recreate exact leaks or models almost at any point. If the Cacomallow leak has new models, that only makes it clear somebody made new models. Not necessarily the Smash team. The Smash team cannot actually recreate the leak no matter how hard they tried without using the same literal models(which means taking the models from the leaker and reusing them). What they can do is make something similar. So nobody able to recreate it doesn't actually mean as much as I originally thought. While I lean towards it being real(as I don't believe a 4chan video is super easy to take down permanently, and they had a crapload of trouble getting the ERSB leak down, too. They can just repost the video over and over, so it going down is pretty much never happening. Hence, I can't take that as a knock to the leak, and why I think it's most likely real). But just as saying this, this also means we can't even tell if it's real or fake because it puts the situation into a stalemate. I was at one point 50/50, but I think 60/40 in its favor seems more fair.

I'll just quickly note that the suspicious point of them being "together" is actually pretty dubious. You're right we don't know how development cycles work. And that's why I don't put much merit into this point anyway. It's a tiny point that's worth thinking about, but that's it.

 

[Loog]

Spoiler

I have. Like I said, I've heard the same Wii U port rumors he has and the Fire Emblem rumors.

As for Long Purple Don being 6, I'm pretty confident based on my own speculation. Of my four contacts, only one has a hard guess for 6 and they think it's Geno. Ironically, I don't agree.

Is there a reason why there is so little confidence in the mario sunshine hd rumor?

 

[Franco Geno]

I have. Like I said, I've heard the same Wii U port rumors he has and the Fire Emblem rumors.

As for Long Purple Don being 6, I'm pretty confident based on my own speculation. Of my four contacts, only one has a hard guess for 6 and they think it's Geno. Ironically, I don't agree.

Who would of thought that Dan Backslide would get into Smash.

 

[Spatulo]

I had an epiphany

That guy with the remake list mentioned Wario Land VB as one of them and I thought “Man, that’s a really weird choice. That’s a really weird game to remake unless you’re a Nintendo nerd on the internet thinking of games you want remakes of.” And it might be that, but I think it might not.

In the posts he mentioned that a Paper Mario 64 remake had been slated for the 3DS but got moved to the Switch. And then it made sense. If the Wario Land VB remake is real, it was originally slated for the 3DS, meaning the thing was finally going to get a Virtual Boy game like people were saying for years.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Is there a reason why there is so little confidence in the mario sunshine hd rumor?

Because the nature of the rumor is confusing. It's another "6" situation where people have heard a lot of different things on the same subject and virtually no one agrees. Some people have outright heard "Sunshine 2" and then there's the rumor I reported on regarding the "New 3D Mario at E3 but not related to past games." One of these could be true or they could all be false. Talked with a Nintendo employee that goes by Sephazon on Discord about the nature of these rumors and they said that mainline Mario games are usually so deeply underwraps that anybody hearing about them in advance is almost something of a small miracle.

 

[volbound1700]

I think you severely underrate Joker's popularity outside Japan; while he may not have been that requested, the guy is from one of the most acclaimed games from 2017.

There's a reason Nintendo felt like they could comfortably reveal Joker at The Game Awards. He is arguably the most universal pick in the Fighter's Pass; even if he's not an earth shattering reveal. Nintendo felt comfortable with him opening the pass; and judging by the response they got, I'd say it worked.

Banjo got in due to Western demand. DQ got in due to Japanese impact and popularity.

Terry is the least popular; but Fatal Fury/KoF undoubtedly has a big legacy on the fighting game genre.

I disagree on Joker. There were no hype videos on YouTube, nobody talks about him at parties. Put him up against Doomguy or MasterChief on hype and he is nothing. I am a gamer and I hadn't heard of him. He also has little connection to Nintendo. Who is the Western audience that he appeals to? Goths? Just because he won a game award doesn't mean anything. There are crappy movies that bomb the box office all the time and yet win Oscars.

I don't want to keep disparaging him but I think he was the worse character add in Smash, even over Corrin. If you want to go with a second Sega linked rep, a 2nd Sonic the Hedgehog character like Dr. Robotnik or Tails would have been better.

Still it is what it is. We could have had a lot better FP1 option.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I repeat these are false equivalencies. Terry is from a giant franchise that is crossover-based. It focused on its full franchise. In addition, didn't it have costumes not related to SNK? Or did I get that wrong.

But even then, if it's pure SNK, then they were treated the same. Pure SNK.

There is a huge basis for making it pure DQ, though. They need to hard sell it to the West and anything non-DQ takes away from that. We know that SE has had trouble with this and has talked about it. This is the most logical reason. The real question is who decided it's a good idea. Nintendo? Sakurai? SE? 2 of them? All 3?

I feel like the non-SNK costumes only point to the irregularity of Hero's presentation though. All we know right now is that there is was something odd about the content shown off with Hero, whether or not it means Geno was upgraded, they decided to wait for marketing purposes, or something else entirely, we'll just have to wait and see.
They don't really need DQ to sell in the West though, this is it's 11th game in the series and it's done incredibly well despite its poor sales in the West. Sure, having it sell better in the West is absolutely an added bonus that Square probably wanted to capitalize on, but it was definitely not a necessity for Hero. DQ is still an extremely popular franchise (Like, it really is a massive cultural phenomenon in Japan)

Because just what you said is exactly the point. People didn't care enough about DQ alone, trying to tie other things to it than are unrelated. Then it was pure DQ, essentially making sure people only care about it. So in a way, your point about the fuss proves it was a smart choice. Also, can't disagree more. It inherently takes away from them trying to focus on DQ only sales and talk. That's what they want and need right now. Which again, they've actually spoken on this. That's enough of a reason to keep it pure DQ. Nintendo is well aware of this. Look at how Sakurai literally advertised DQXI Definite Edition. It was clearly based around advertising the series. Anything non-DQ blatantly would take away from that point. It's a marketing tactic, simply put.

My point was that people wouldn't care about those Mii costumes enough to really take away any of Hero's steam. While it's true Sakurai advertised DQXI in Hero's presentation, he also advertised Banjo Kazooie's rerelease on Xbox during Banjo's presentation, which was probably the presentation that strayed the most away from talking about content relating to its character. Not to mention, it wasn't even on a Nintendo console, so it could be argued Sakurai really only does the advertising for courtesy's sake (Though, I could still see him definitely being pushed more to do it in Hero's presentation)

Real or not is irrelevant to the presentation, of course. And it's worth noting that the modders have gotten jiggle physics down, but something I really do agree with though I responded poorly to its point last time is that people can't recreate exact leaks or models almost at any point. If the Cacomallow leak has new models, that only makes it clear somebody made new models. Not necessarily the Smash team. The Smash team cannot actually recreate the leak no matter how hard they tried without using the same literal models(which means taking the models from the leaker and reusing them). What they can do is make something similar. So nobody able to recreate it doesn't actually mean as much as I originally thought. While I lean towards it being real(as I don't believe a 4chan video is super easy to take down permanently, and they had a crapload of trouble getting the ERSB leak down, too. They can just repost the video over and over, so it going down is pretty much never happening. Hence, I can't take that as a knock to the leak, and why I think it's most likely real). But just as saying this, this also means we can't even tell if it's real or fake because it puts the situation into a stalemate. I was at one point 50/50, but I think 60/40 in its favor seems more fair.

Well, I remember the best mods to try and recreate the Mallow hat (the one that had jiggle physics) still claimed that they believed it was impossible to make it look that high quality. The argument wasn't making it look exactly like it did, the argument was making it look as good as it did without having access to a dev kit. I also am currently 60/40 on the leak, as I've been much more cautious regarding leaks ever since I put waaaaay too much faith in the Grinch Leak.

Anyway, this will be my last post on this current strain of discussion about Mii costumes, Dragon Quest marketing, and whatever else. The longer we go on, the higher chance we have of enticing unsavory characters into joining us and I'm not looking to get this thread locked on my 3rd day posting here. Thank you for being so polite and let's just agree to disagree and see what the future holds.

 

[Inawordyes]

Scenario: Grapploct is announced as the fifth fighter in the Fighter Pass in this Direct. Your reaction?

Okay, but how about

Clobbopus or we riot

Also Geno, but that's a given

 

[Deleted member]

I had an epiphany

That guy with the remake list mentioned Wario Land VB as one of them and I thought “Man, that’s a really weird choice. That’s a really weird game to remake unless you’re a Nintendo nerd on the internet thinking of games you want remakes of.” And it might be that, but I think it might not.

In the posts he mentioned that a Paper Mario 64 remake had been slated for the 3DS but got moved to the Switch. And then it made sense. If the Wario Land VB remake is real, it was originally slated for the 3DS, meaning the thing was finally going to get a Virtual Boy game like people were saying for years.

Yeah. Now that you mention it, it does make a lot of sense. It’s probably the only VB game that has to be remade.