Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

Ovaltine

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So on the column for Famitsu that Ayumi gave rough translations of, Sakurai has stated that he views DLC as something that is sometimes best cut off at an earlier point so they can move on to the next game. That makes further DLC look less likely than before. There were also characters for Sm4sh's DLC that Sakurai went for, but was rejected.

My hopes for Geno have plummeted even further, if that was at all possible.
 
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So on the column for Famitsu that Ayumi gave rough translations of, Sakurai has stated that he views DLC as something that is sometimes best cut off at an earlier point so they can move on to the next game. That makes further DLC look less likely than before. There were also characters for Sm4sh's DLC that Sakurai went for, but was rejected.

My hopes for Geno have plummeted even further, if that was at all possible.
That would imply that Sakurai wants to start a new Smash game. He said he hopes he "wouldn't have to make another one for 9 years."
 

GoodGrief741

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We're talking about Smash DLC though, so anything saying "next game" would mean a new Smash game.
One quote is that he likes to cut off DLC early to move on to the next game. The other quote is that he'd like the next Smash to be in 9 years. There's no contradiction there. Clearly we didn't mean we'll get 9 years of DLC, so moving on isn't starting development of the next Smash, but rather taking a break, letting things simmer, working on other projects. 'Moving on', as in 'leaving some for the next time'. Sakurai's a really old school guy in that regard.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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We're talking about Smash DLC though, so anything saying "next game" would mean a new Smash game.
Sakurai's statement was from company's point of view. He is basically saying, if you want money, DLC is not very wise idea, better to start whole new project. There are smash talks on the same page but the DLC part is what he think in general. But he is also saying that DLC taking a year or more is very risky move than people think,

One quote is that he likes to cut off DLC early to move on to the next game. The other quote is that he'd like the next Smash to be in 9 years. There's no contradiction there. Clearly we didn't mean we'll get 9 years of DLC, so moving on isn't starting development of the next Smash, but rather taking a break, letting things simmer, working on other projects. 'Moving on', as in 'leaving some for the next time'. Sakurai's a really old school guy in that regard.
I didn't get impression he is an old school reading his book, rather I thought his thought process is very businessman-like. He talks a lot about efficiency and how to make both company and customers please enough. His work style isn't old by any means but very non-Japanese. I actually surprised he is nearly in his 50s when I was reading it.
He talks how to live as freelance game directer. I think he is very professional.
 
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One quote is that he likes to cut off DLC early to move on to the next game. The other quote is that he'd like the next Smash to be in 9 years. There's no contradiction there. Clearly we didn't mean we'll get 9 years of DLC, so moving on isn't starting development of the next Smash, but rather taking a break, letting things simmer, working on other projects. 'Moving on', as in 'leaving some for the next time'. Sakurai's a really old school guy in that regard.
If he cuts off future DLC for that reason though, that does imply that he wants to make a new Smash game. Of course the 9 years was an exaggeration, but it wasn't him mapping out when he would like the next Smash game to be. He's not saying he's done with Smash, but he's saying that he doesn't have to want to make a new Smash game for a while. Him saying that he wants to cut off future DLC so that he can develop a new Smash game goes against that.

Sakurai's statement was from company's point of view. He is basically saying, if you want money, DLC is not very wise idea, better to start whole new project. There are smash talks on the same page but the DLC part is what he think in general. But he is also saying that DLC taking a year or more is very risky move than people think,
That completely goes against Nintendo's article of wanting big games to get more DLC then.
 

Ovaltine

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Sakurai has stated that he wants to do as much as he can for Ultimate. On top of that, his perspective on DLC sales doesn't fit Nintendo's bottom line. Further DLC looks more unlikely, but not impossible. I just wouldn't hurt my breath.

Those rejections of characters that placed higher than Bayo is worrying, too. Geno easily could have been one of them. If Cloud doesn't return for the next Smash and Square isn't on board for Geno, Ultimate may very well have been his last chance.
 
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Reminder that Sakurai isn't that fond of sequels, yet we still got them anyway. He doesn't have as much control over things beyond base roster as we think. This isn't Kid Icarus Uprising.

It's telling that the current pass' characters were all suggested by Nintendo (with Joker likely being the hook, line and sinker). Besides, if it were really up to him, we wouldn't even have got DLC period. Or Piranha Plant, imagine getting a Smash game without a new oddball pick.

At the end of the day though, he does want to make people happy despite his gripes. It reminds me of this line from the Angry Video Game Nerd in the Superman 64 episode: "Aw, come on, do you really want to make me play this? But I'll do it just for you, because I like you a lot."

Wait it isn't immune to sickness!?

My life is a lie.
By "well enough", she meant figuratively, not literally. :p

Although with the way Ultimate sold like crazy, I have no doubt the current FP will do well regardless.
 
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Reminder that Sakurai isn't that fond of sequels, yet we still got them anyway. He doesn't have as much control over things beyond base roster as we think. This isn't Kid Icarus Uprising.

It's telling that the current pass' characters were all suggested by Nintendo (with Joker likely being the hook, line and sinker). Besides, if it were really up to him, we wouldn't even have got DLC period. Or Piranha Plant, imagine getting a Smash game without a new oddball pick.

At the end of the day though, he does want to make people happy despite his gripes. It reminds me of this line from the Angry Video Game Nerd in the Superman 64 episode: "Aw, come on, do you really want to make me play this? But I'll do it just for you, because I like you a lot."



By "well enough", she meant figuratively, not literally. :p

Although with the way Ultimate sold like crazy, I have no doubt the current FP will do well regardless.
I know, I was kidding lol
 

wynn728

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Besides, if it were really up to him, we wouldn't even have got DLC period. Or Piranha Plant, imagine getting a Smash game without a new oddball pick.
Then Smash Bros Ultimate would be a whole lot better if Piranha Plant was never added. I never want to see a character get cut, but Piranha Plant deserves to be in the trash. That character was just Sakurai way of saying that your favorite character who hot turn into an Assist Trophy, like Isaac, Bomberman, Shadow, Ashley, Takamaru, Krystal, Skull Kid, and Shovel Knight are worthless and do not deserve development time when compare to Piranha Plant. They could've added a Rhythm Heaven character as an odd ball fighter, but when you have such a limited amount of newcomers that can be added it would be best if they didn't screw around and put in as much fan favorite characters they could.
 

Dynamic Worlock

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So on the column for Famitsu that Ayumi gave rough translations of, Sakurai has stated that he views DLC as something that is sometimes best cut off at an earlier point so they can move on to the next game. That makes further DLC look less likely than before. There were also characters for Sm4sh's DLC that Sakurai went for, but was rejected.

My hopes for Geno have plummeted even further, if that was at all possible.
WOO! WORST TIMELINE! I'm back for more doomsaying, baby!
 

Maxie

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So on the column for Famitsu that Ayumi gave rough translations of, Sakurai has stated that he views DLC as something that is sometimes best cut off at an earlier point so they can move on to the next game. That makes further DLC look less likely than before. There were also characters for Sm4sh's DLC that Sakurai went for, but was rejected.

My hopes for Geno have plummeted even further, if that was at all possible.
Yay! Guess it's time to give up on him. I've only got Crash to root for, now.
 

ForsakenM

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Wow, you guys really missed the memo on this one. It basically flew over your heads. I read this without finding it on here and I got PISSED!

You wanna know why? This is more evidence of Nintendo abusing Sakurai's passion for quality for Smash.

You guys remember Brawl? You know, that game that got announced before Sakurai was even working on it? Where Sakurai learned about it when WE learned about it? Yeah, Iwata even admitted that he basically put Sakurai in a box. Iwata, the guy we all loved for who he was and what he did for us, ADMITTED in an Iwata Asks that he threatened Sakurai with the idea that if he didn't sign on for Brawl, they would re-release Melee with no changes except online play and effectively tarnish the reputation Smash Bros had garnered.

This is that happening all over again. Sakurai was stating that he doesn't like DLC at all and he REALLY hates the idea of the pass and that it's being kept a secret. You guys know what that means? It means that Nintendo is pulling rank and forcing all these decisions!

DLC? Nintendo over Sakurai.
Fighter's Pass? Nintendo over Sakurai.
Not announcing the character immediately? Nintendo over Sakurai.

Sakurai doesn't want any of these things but Nintendo does so they do it anyway, and this forces Sakurai into a box.

Does he leave since he disagrees with the practices and lets someone else take over Smash Bros with the lingering worry that no one else will be as passionate about it and the game's quality my suffer in addition to leaving behind possible his greatest creation? Or does he stick around and work with practices he despises and being forced to do things he doesn't like and have certain levels of control being taken away from him even though it's his own creation?

I'm not sure if you guys have read many of his other interviews, but making Smash is KILLING him both physically and emotionally. Each new game he works himself until he breaks and I can only imagine the emotional strain he goes through being the main man, the face of Smash Bros. This makes me believe even more in MatPat's theories about the lore behind Smash Bros.


If you want to get to the part I mean, go to about 9:23 in the video, and after covering the opening MatPat suggests that Galeem is Nintendo.

So the idea here is that Master Hand represents Sakurai's creative spirit and Crazy Hand represents his destructive spirit. Back in an older theory, Tabuu represented the struggle of working with and playing games as an adult in a culture that thinks you should 'grow up' and in Smash 4 Master Hand erupting into darkness is a sign of Sakurai's anger and distress at having his creative spirit slung around and manipulated and the pain he goes through whenever he makes a new title with the Master Orb that just gives up and lets you kill it at the end representing Sakurai ultimately giving in because in spite of it all...he's dedicated to Smash.

Thus from here, Nintendo represents Galeem and absorbs the creative spirits of it's workers (Master Hands) to churn out sequel after sequel and using their franchises over and over until they can no longer get anything out of it. Darkon represents all that is toxic about the fanbases when we make demands for what we want and are rude and pushy about it while not acknowledging the work put into the finished product. MatPat makes a good point here that each Crazy Hand is a player and that Darkon doesn't absorb each hand but lets them move freely while Galeem absorbs the Master Hands as the Nintendo employees have less freedom and individuality because they work for them.

He also points at the Darkon winning doesn't involve Galeem's death, but rather it's imprisonment by Darkon, potentially referring to us consumers holding Nintendo and the characters and franchises hostage to our demands rather than them making their own decisions. It's why the true and neutral ending has so much impact yet is so somber, because it's all about the power of the original creative and destructive spirits working together to protect the integrity of the characters we love. It seems so likely that it's hard for me to see it as a theory because I can almost bet you that Sakurai is purposely doing these things.

Some of us here don't like this theory because multiple times MatPat uses Geno fans as an example of being a demanding fan but...let's be honest with ourselves for a minute here: even just idly desiring Geno to be in Smash means that you want Sakurai to do more work to cater what YOU want. I get it: we may not be rude or pushy, in fact we are often nice and friendly, but just that sole pure desire for Geno means we want Sakurai and his crew to make something for US and not for themselves. We may try to glorify it with 'Sakurai likes Geno too!' but at the end of the day, it is OUR want for his inclusion.

The sad part is, being a consumer and telling a company what you want and what you will pay for or will not pay for isn't a bad thing. So many people will call you 'entitled' because you refuse to spend your hard-earned money on something when it doesn't appeal to you. If you didn't buy Ultimate because your character wasn't in it, that is perfectly fine and your choice to make. You cannot be told what to do with your money and now more than ever companies need to learn that we won't just accept anything they give us: if we don't think it's worth it, we won't buy it. If we feel like we were jipped, we will be vocal about it...once again, there is nothing wrong with this.

But...where the hell is the middle ground? Between a company that wants money and the fans who want the content they want, Sakurai is stuck in the middle with his original creation slowly changing into something he can't recognize anymore. Now there are non-Nintendo characters and people play the game to win money and be the best instead of just having fun with friends and family. Now there is DLC and season passes and sanctioned tournaments instead of complete games at decent prices and hanging out at a buddies's house. Nintendo cares about sales and the fanbase cares about frame data and who is the best and please nerf this and please buff that...whatever happened to just sitting on the couch and having a good time with your friends playing Smash Bros and having laughs and knowing that Nintendo meant joy and fun times ahead?

God it makes me sick. Sure, I still want Geno despite all this, but more than that I want Sakurai to be happy.

And if that means Geno never happens, then so be it.
 
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So now people are completely writing off Geno's chances based on... An ambiguous quote from famitsu and a Game Theory video? This is just getting stupid. You guys are projecting your pessimism on completely ambiguous statements. Literally nothing has changed. For your own mental health wait until a legit announcement either way as to whether DLC is just going to be FP1 or that Geno isn't getting in.

Honestly this whole chicken little attitude of the sky falling in terms of Geno's chances every time some vague piece of information comes about is probably a big reason why so many long-time people have stopped posting on this thread. It's just gotten so negative and pessimistic based on nothing.
 

wynn728

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So now people are completely writing off Geno's chances based on... An ambiguous quote from famitsu and a Game Theory video? This is just getting stupid. You guys are projecting your pessimism on completely ambiguous statements. Literally nothing has changed. For your own mental health wait until a legit announcement either way as to whether DLC is just going to be FP1 or that Geno isn't getting in.

Honestly this whole chicken little attitude of the sky falling in terms of Geno's chances every time some vague piece of information comes about is probably a big reason why so many long-time people have stopped posting on this thread. It's just gotten so negative and pessimistic based on nothing.
There is so much going against Geno right now that it's best to stop hoping. All the characters have been picked, getting our hope up that Geno is one of the last four isn't going to change anything. Instead it's going to make it hurt more when the inevitable happens. The writing is on the walls, we have to acknowledge it no matter how much we don't want to.
 
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There is so much going against Geno right now that it's best to stop hoping. All the characters have been picked, getting our hope up that Geno is one of the last four isn't going to change anything. Instead it's going to make it hurt more when the inevitable happens. The writing is on the walls, we have to acknowledge it no matter how much we don't want to.
I like how you act as if you're opinion is inevitable.
 

ForsakenM

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So now people are completely writing off Geno's chances based on... An ambiguous quote from famitsu and a Game Theory video? This is just getting stupid. You guys are projecting your pessimism on completely ambiguous statements. Literally nothing has changed. For your own mental health wait until a legit announcement either way as to whether DLC is just going to be FP1 or that Geno isn't getting in.

Honestly this whole chicken little attitude of the sky falling in terms of Geno's chances every time some vague piece of information comes about is probably a big reason why so many long-time people have stopped posting on this thread. It's just gotten so negative and pessimistic based on nothing.
To clarify, I'm not of the opinion that his chances are gone. I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't happen in this pass that we will have to wait until the next Smash. I'm also of the opinion that Sakurai needs to stop making Smash for his own health and if Geno doesn't happen so that he can retire, so be it.

Also if anything, it was the news of returning Mii Costumes and Square being able to get money off his costume again while getting a bigger character in that got me. Seriously, there are bigger and better choices, and Sakurai has shown that he'll go for the better choice.
 
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While we don’t know about the remaining characters in the Fighter’s Pass, I do think Sakurai’s interview highlights just how unlikely we are to see DLC beyond it. And if you’re a person who has tried to hold out hope for Geno for DLC either outside of or beyond the Fighter’s Pass, then this interview is a serious blow to that hope. These translations serve as probably the biggest information we’ve gotten since Joker and it’s not exactly hopeful news.

I’m also going to hold my judgment on Sakurai and how much Nintendo forces him to do because of how the DLC comment is phrased. It sticks out as very weirdly phrased and I know Ayumi’s earlier translation was the development team wasn’t consulted (which doesn’t necessarily mean that Sakurai himself doesn’t know or had no hand in the process, of which he stated he did in the past). I don’t know if woe is Sakurai for being forced to do DLC should be our takeaway quite yet.

What I find more interesting is with regards to the Fighter’s Pass (which I understand the other viewpoint, I just have never found the idea in of itself problematic) and him basically being pushed/forced to do that. And then the whole Bayonetta thing finally being cleared up further (God, I feel like the community is going to drive me wild again with that one) and specifically citing Snake. The implication would be that no other first party characters beat her out though since he cites requests turned down (which is also the first time this has been properly addressed by Sakurai himself). The idea of Geno being turned down definitely is something I’m more willing to believe in now. And I’m very curious who has been turned down other than Snake (if he was turned down by Konami or they didn’t want to put in more veterans, that isn’t technically specified). Very interesting developments all around from this interview and we definitely need more clarification in some places to really get the full story.

And I’ve always given Sakurai the benefit of the doubt to his powers, so I’m definitely re-examining some things. I’m genuinely super curious to know the extent of his power and what limitations he may have/if he’s experiencing more Nintendo pressure in the wake of Iwata’s death and replacement. Just lots of new interesting questions for us to pose and consider all around, which is exciting? If maybe a bit tinged with concern. Certainly the questions of Sakurai’s autonomy as an individual come back up with his book.
 

Chinderblock

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Nobody knows how DLC will go. it's fine to have opinions. It's fine to think something is impossible. It's fine to think something is possible. It's fine to have hope. It's fine to have no hope.

It is not fine to force your opinion down others' throats and try to bring down the thread due to how you feel. The opposite is not fine either. Dial it back and respect other people's preferences. Even if that is that you don't think a character is happening.
 

ivanlerma

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Thus from here, Nintendo represents Galeem and absorbs the creative spirits of it's workers (Master Hands) to churn out sequel after sequel and using their franchises over and over until they can no longer get anything out of it. Darkon represents all that is toxic about the fanbases when we make demands for what we want and are rude and pushy about it while not acknowledging the work put into the finished product.
The Last Story after Terra Battle?
Sonic from his fanbase?
Fire Emblem after Awakening?
 
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Hey all this doesn't really have anything to do with Geno but more so I just wanted to give all of you a heads up since this community gave me some of the best memories I've had on this site and online in general, I love you all(Platonically) so I want y'all to know that I'll be leaving Smashboards.

Yeah I've had to go through a rough two weeks with a lot of traumatizing things happening not only to me but to my friends, This situation that I've gone through is one where a friend of mine betrayed my friend group and did a lot of bad stuff. I can't really get into it cause that's not the point, The point is I'll be leaving the site and that I'm really gonna miss all of you.

Remember the TGA's and that "Krooli" guy? That was me, That was my alt and I remember that night it was one of my favorite memories on the site, Remember the SMRPG Speedrun at GDQ? That gives me some nostalgia, Remember the "Brave" Datamine? I was there alongside all of you and what did those three things have in common? I experienced them with all of you and those were some of the most stand out memories of this site and online for me.

If any of you need me for whatever reason or if you want to keep in contact with me here's my discord (ShotoStar#3170), I wish each and every one of you a good life and good luck.

I love you all (Again, Platonically) and Farewell, I'm sorry I couldn't be around more than I was.
Take care my dude, breaks are good to take (or in this case if you're leaving the site, it's best to do so if you really feel like you need to). We really liked having ya here.
 
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While we don’t know about the remaining characters in the Fighter’s Pass, I do think Sakurai’s interview highlights just how unlikely we are to see DLC beyond it. And if you’re a person who has tried to hold out hope for Geno for DLC either outside of or beyond the Fighter’s Pass, then this interview is a serious blow to that hope. These translations serve as probably the biggest information we’ve gotten since Joker and it’s not exactly hopeful news.

I’m also going to hold my judgment on Sakurai and how much Nintendo forces him to do because of how the DLC comment is phrased. It sticks out as very weirdly phrased and I know Ayumi’s earlier translation was the development team wasn’t consulted (which doesn’t necessarily mean that Sakurai himself doesn’t know or had no hand in the process, of which he stated he did in the past). I don’t know if woe is Sakurai for being forced to do DLC should be our takeaway quite yet.

What I find more interesting is with regards to the Fighter’s Pass (which I understand the other viewpoint, I just have never found the idea in of itself problematic) and him basically being pushed/forced to do that. And then the whole Bayonetta thing finally being cleared up further (God, I feel like the community is going to drive me wild again with that one) and specifically citing Snake. The implication would be that no other first party characters beat her out though since he cites requests turned down (which is also the first time this has been properly addressed by Sakurai himself). The idea of Geno being turned down definitely is something I’m more willing to believe in now. And I’m very curious who has been turned down other than Snake (if he was turned down by Konami or they didn’t want to put in more veterans, that isn’t technically specified). Very interesting developments all around from this interview and we definitely need more clarification in some places to really get the full story.

And I’ve always given Sakurai the benefit of the doubt to his powers, so I’m definitely re-examining some things. I’m genuinely super curious to know the extent of his power and what limitations he may have/if he’s experiencing more Nintendo pressure in the wake of Iwata’s death and replacement. Just lots of new interesting questions for us to pose and consider all around, which is exciting? If maybe a bit tinged with concern. Certainly the questions of Sakurai’s autonomy as an individual come back up with his book.
The only things in there about DLC are that Ultimate's DLC hadn't been planned as recently as January 2018, that Sakurai isn't a big fan of the season pass model, and that the current DLC characters were chosen without Sakurai's input (which we already knew). That’s it. Anything else is conjecture and projecting on someone you do not personally know.

To clarify, I'm not of the opinion that his chances are gone. I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't happen in this pass that we will have to wait until the next Smash. I'm also of the opinion that Sakurai needs to stop making Smash for his own health and if Geno doesn't happen so that he can retire, so be it.

Also if anything, it was the news of returning Mii Costumes and Square being able to get money off his costume again while getting a bigger character in that got me. Seriously, there are bigger and better choices, and Sakurai has shown that he'll go for the better choice.
What is “better” is completely subjective though. Of SE choices I’m not really personally seeing better choices than Geno, but again that is just my subjective opinion. Sakurai has his own opinions on what is “better”.
 
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