Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

Chinderblock

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They could make Rayman not very strong and be light to make up for it.

The only thing that would make Rayman broken are his detached limbs which would give him a lot of range, but PP's range is ridiculous, so I don't think that is an issue
I don't know if it's just range. His limbs are hitboxes too theoretically. That's more of what I mean. Having a lot of range isn't the whole factor. I mean, he's workable, but he definitely isn't one you can instantly make work without lots of balancing thoughts.

If Sukapon can work as an AT, then by gum Rayman can fit in. I don't want him to be the next Ridley here.

And I think Ubi knows well at this point that fans wouldn't want the Rabbids to get in over him first, the TMNT Smash-Up incident was bad enough.
Rabbids are the one who got a crossover with Mario and it was extremely well received. The issue was that the Rabbids replaced extremely wanted characters in comparison like Rocksteady and Bebop(though they weren't in that particular show, but it was still a complaint). There were still others that made more sense than 3 separate Rabbid clones. That's actually pretty justified for annoyance. It was 3 slots after all. Rabbids are highly popular, so taking up one slot is nowhere near the same thing. That said, Rabbid and Rayman are treated as entirely separate series. Sukapon also doesn't affect how the balance will work here. Being able to hit its limbs makes sense cause it's just an AT. It may make Rayman too weak if his jab are able to easily take damage, meaning his range is a major downside.
 

Zack E.

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I don't know if it's just range. His limbs are hitboxes too theoretically. That's more of what I mean. Having a lot of range isn't the whole factor. I mean, he's workable, but he definitely isn't one you can instantly make work without lots of balancing thoughts.


Rabbids are the one who got a crossover with Mario and it was extremely well received. The issue was that the Rabbids replaced extremely wanted characters in comparison like Rocksteady and Bebop(though they weren't in that particular show, but it was still a complaint). There were still others that made more sense than 3 separate Rabbid clones. That's actually pretty justified for annoyance. It was 3 slots after all. Rabbids are highly popular, so taking up one slot is nowhere near the same thing. That said, Rabbid and Rayman are treated as entirely separate series. Sukapon also doesn't affect how the balance will work here. Being able to hit its limbs makes sense cause it's just an AT. It may make Rayman too weak if his jab are able to easily take damage, meaning his range is a major downside.
Just like how Ridley was too big
 
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Honestly, give him and Mallow am amiibo anyway. They deserve it.

Hell, I think we should get amiibo for all the DLC characters and some related ones where possible. Jack Frost, Slime(if Erdrick is in, or Erdrick if Slime is in), Sephiroth(maybe Aerith too? Like, they're the 3 most known in FFVII). There's tons of great amiibo options at this point.
Mallow amiibo would be an instant buy for me, FFVII amiibo would be sick too. And make the Slime amiibo squishy like the Metroid and it's perfect.
 
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I don't know if it's just range. His limbs are hitboxes too theoretically. That's more of what I mean. Having a lot of range isn't the whole factor. I mean, he's workable, but he definitely isn't one you can instantly make work without lots of balancing thoughts.


Rabbids are the one who got a crossover with Mario and it was extremely well received. The issue was that the Rabbids replaced extremely wanted characters in comparison like Rocksteady and Bebop(though they weren't in that particular show, but it was still a complaint). There were still others that made more sense than 3 separate Rabbid clones. That's actually pretty justified for annoyance. It was 3 slots after all. Rabbids are highly popular, so taking up one slot is nowhere near the same thing. That said, Rabbid and Rayman are treated as entirely separate series. Sukapon also doesn't affect how the balance will work here. Being able to hit its limbs makes sense cause it's just an AT. It may make Rayman too weak if his jab are able to easily take damage, meaning his range is a major downside.
If anything, they would take all the time they need to make Rayman work just right, even if he doesn't get in the pass or this game. If the Kingdom Rabbid is put off, I could see it due to not wanting to have too many Mario-related newcomers at once.

As for Smash-Up, it was more or less billed as "not being based on any specific TMNT incarnation", but that wound up being bull, seeing how most of the characters in the roster were featured in the most recent adaptation at that point.
 

Chinderblock

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If anything, they would take all the time they need to make Rayman work just right, even if he doesn't get in the pass or this game. If the Kingdom Rabbid is put off, I could see it due to not wanting to have too many Mario-related newcomers at once.

As for Smash-Up, it was more or less billed as "not being based on any specific TMNT incarnation", but that wound up being bull, seeing how most of the characters in the roster were featured in the most recent adaptation at that point.
All of them were from the same TMNT show. It was outright lying.

I wasn't talking about the Mario-related Rabbids, just that they were still highly liked. The hate for the Rabbids very overblown. They're actually extremely popular. I won't pretend they lack a hatebase though.

Just like how Ridley was too big
Eh, not exactly. And he only got in after getting a redesign to scale him down. What it proved is how it was difficult but Sakurai got him to work. When it comes to Rayman VS Rabbid, the one who is easier to balance is a legitimate choice as well. They're both major gaming characters and have good merits to appearing in Smash. Ubisoft could go for either one. I think Sakurai is going to pick Rayman first though. I expect Rabbid Mii costumes if Rayman doesn't get in. Whichever one is playable, the other definitely deserves a Mii costume(s) at least.

Mallow amiibo would be an instant buy for me, FFVII amiibo would be sick too. And make the Slime amiibo squishy like the Metroid and it's perfect.
Slime and Erdrick combo, baby! That, or put Slime with the original Hero, Erdrick's Descendant.

Though if we want squishy, Valentina amiibo. :troll:
 

Zack E.

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All of them were from the same TMNT show. It was outright lying.

I wasn't talking about the Mario-related Rabbids, just that they were still highly liked. The hate for the Rabbids very overblown. They're actually extremely popular. I won't pretend they lack a hatebase though.


Eh, not exactly. And he only got in after getting a redesign to scale him down. What it proved is how it was difficult but Sakurai got him to work. When it comes to Rayman VS Rabbid, the one who is easier to balance is a legitimate choice as well. They're both major gaming characters and have good merits to appearing in Smash. Ubisoft could go for either one. I think Sakurai is going to pick Rayman first though. I expect Rabbid Mii costumes if Rayman doesn't get in. Whichever one is playable, the other definitely deserves a Mii costume(s) at least.


Slime and Erdrick combo, baby! That, or put Slime with the original Hero, Erdrick's Descendant.

Though if we want squishy, Valentina amiibo. :troll:
It's an example of how people thought a character couldn't work because they thought the character was too difficult to be developed

Because of that, I don't think how hard it is to develop a character is a valid argument against a character
 

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It's an example of how people thought a character couldn't work because they thought the character was too difficult to be developed

Because of that, I don't think how hard it is to develop a character is a valid argument against a character
But it is a valid point to bring up. Balance matters. It can be worked around, but it cannot be ignored. Balancing someone with a disjointed hitbox with extreme range is a big deal. Thus, it requires a lot of thought to make it work without him being overpowered or underpowered. For instance, if he's immune to taking damage when his limbs(after they're thrown out, not next to his body), this could mean he could camp a bit too easily. On the other hand, if he takes damage from his limbs getting hit, he'll soak up damage so fast he won't be able to do anything but get wafflestomped. It's a key factor in his design and needs to be figured out. Mechanics are great, but they need to be looked at carefully.

Ridley was a different thing, and it looks like he might be actually be very underpowered overall despite his strength. He's got a huge hitbox and is fairly slow. He's still accurate, but it's clear balance issues exist.
 
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To me, Sakurai seeing Rayman having a unique balancing quirk is

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If there is a problematic character, he usually either comes back to them in a future game, or finds a workaround with someone else (e.g. Villager using the flight mechanic Balloon Fighter would have had, circumventing the issue of "what happens after his balloons popped?"). The only ones that had him take pause completely so far are those who'd have to ride bikes constantly, and team-up concepts like the Diddy/Dixie combo.
 
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Zack E.

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But it is a valid point to bring up. Balance matters. It can be worked around, but it cannot be ignored. Balancing someone with a disjointed hitbox with extreme range is a big deal. Thus, it requires a lot of thought to make it work without him being overpowered or underpowered. For instance, if he's immune to taking damage when his limbs(after they're thrown out, not next to his body), this could mean he could camp a bit too easily. On the other hand, if he takes damage from his limbs getting hit, he'll soak up damage so fast he won't be able to do anything but get wafflestomped. It's a key factor in his design and needs to be figured out. Mechanics are great, but they need to be looked at carefully.

Ridley was a different thing, and it looks like he might be actually be very underpowered overall despite his strength. He's got a huge hitbox and is fairly slow. He's still accurate, but it's clear balance issues exist.
Won't stop Rayman from getting in though. Despite balance issues, Ridley is still a playable character in the game.

Plus, it's like characters such as Link and K Rool who throw their boomerang and crown respectively. They camp out easily, unless you dodge their attack, which players could do with Rayman
 

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Won't stop Rayman from getting in though. Despite balance issues, Ridley is still a playable character in the game.

Plus, it's like characters such as Link and K Rool who throw their boomerang and crown respectively. They camp out easily, unless you dodge their attack, which players could do with Rayman
Those are separate items and not part of the body. It's a different situation. Those items don't need to have their own hitbox. Hitting them does not damage the controller of those projectiles. The point is that it's something that has to be taken in consideration. I don't think it will stop him from being playable, but it can easily delay how long it takes to balance him.

And it did stop Ridley from getting playable for a while. He went through a lot to get there. He was dismissed at first, had multiple boss roles, and needed an entirely new body frame to work. It's just not a comparable situation besides the hard fact it was difficult to do.
 

Zack E.

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Those are separate items and not part of the body. It's a different situation. Those items don't need to have their own hitbox. Hitting them does not damage the controller of those projectiles. The point is that it's something that has to be taken in consideration. I don't think it will stop him from being playable, but it can easily delay how long it takes to balance him.

And it did stop Ridley from getting playable for a while. He went through a lot to get there. He was dismissed at first, had multiple boss roles, and needed an entirely new body frame to work. It's just not a comparable situation besides the hard fact it was difficult to do.
Who says that Rayman's hands need to have their own hitbox as well? I don't think they need to.

Characters can be unbalanced, then patched, as proven by Bayonetta. Same thing could happen with Rayman if they aren't able to properly balance him right away.

Ridley is playable in Ultimate though. Sakurai was able to develop him into a character even though it was difficult

And again, the reason I'm bringing up Ridley being said to be "too big" isn't necessarily because of the specific development issues, I bring it up because of how people thought it was impossible to make him a character because of a trait supposedly stopping him from being one

On a side note, we are getting off topic from Geno, so maybe we should get back on topic
 

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Probably safest to say that Brave is Wario's height. This could work for Erdrick if they are planning on making him as floaty/jumpy as Toon Link.

However I kind of want to hear what kind of theory crafting can be made to make the point that the stats would not be placed on a Toon Link like character.
Bringing up Wario is actually kind of important here because Wario is a super floaty character who is faster in the air than on the ground with great combo ability, a good recovery, but garbage range and a lack of reliable kill options to balance him out. Note how this is the opposite of most sword fighters. Most sword fighters have good range and kill power but typically have crap recoveries unless they're light. Stat wise, Brave has more in common with Wario than Toon Link.

Note how both Mario and Wario have better aerial options that grounded options. What's even more interesting is Brave's slide because it gives the character even more incentive to be in the air than on the ground. Most swordsmen space in the air or approach in the air to lead to grounded options. They are typically zone breakers. Characters like Mario and Wario typically approach in the air to open options to get their opponent in the air and try to keep them there. Mario and Wario also typically try to manipulate you into their space and capitalize on mistakes, again, because their range sucks and they don't have a lot of kill options. Characters like Marth and Roy get into your space and can run away and space when in the lead because of their range.

What's the point of this? The point is that Brave is of average speed and but floaty. Consider the following:

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/AirSpeed

Let's look at the swordsmen with high aerial speed. Roy and Chrom. Fast with great combo ability and kill power, terrible recovery. Where's Toon Link? Tied with Rosalina and Metaknight for 40th. We've already gone over Metaknight and Toon Link's playstyle as swordsmen. Where's Mario? Tied for 12th for aerial speed. Big difference. What about run speed?

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/RunSpeed

Brave and Mario are roughly the same, tied with several characters for 32nd. Toon Link is 24th, Metaknight is 14th. Again, very different than Smash's "floaty" swordsmen. Once again, despite the size similarity, it's not likely that Brave will play like Toon Link because he doesn't have the stats of a swordsmen, he has the stats of someone who fights hand to hand or has mid range projectiles.
 

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Something I mulled over regarding the stats for "Brave"; we know the character's stats make them more in line with zoning characters like Pac Man and Mii Gunner, but if it were a sword user, "Brave" would be the worst one in the entire game. That, and given that Square and by extension the proxies for DQ are fairly protective of their characters and how they're portrayed, I don't think they would've approved Erdrick or any DQ character for that matter to have stats that terrible and would take issue with it, especially when Cloud is one of the best in both 4 and Ultimate if you go by tier lists.
 

GoodGrief741

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Bringing up Wario is actually kind of important here because Wario is a super floaty character who is faster in the air than on the ground with great combo ability, a good recovery, but garbage range and a lack of reliable kill options to balance him out. Note how this is the opposite of most sword fighters. Most sword fighters have good range and kill power but typically have crap recoveries unless they're light. Stat wise, Brave has more in common with Wario than Toon Link.

Note how both Mario and Wario have better aerial options that grounded options. What's even more interesting is Brave's slide because it gives the character even more incentive to be in the air than on the ground. Most swordsmen space in the air or approach in the air to lead to grounded options. They are typically zone breakers. Characters like Mario and Wario typically approach in the air to open options to get their opponent in the air and try to keep them there. Mario and Wario also typically try to manipulate you into their space and capitalize on mistakes, again, because their range sucks and they don't have a lot of kill options. Characters like Marth and Roy get into your space and can run away and space when in the lead because of their range.

What's the point of this? The point is that Brave is of average speed and but floaty. Consider the following:

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/AirSpeed

Let's look at the swordsmen with high aerial speed. Roy and Chrom. Fast with great combo ability and kill power, terrible recovery. Where's Toon Link? Tied with Rosalina and Metaknight for 40th. We've already gone over Metaknight and Toon Link's playstyle as swordsmen. Where's Mario? Tied for 12th for aerial speed. Big difference. What about run speed?

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/RunSpeed

Brave and Mario are roughly the same, tied with several characters for 32nd. Toon Link is 24th, Metaknight is 14th. Again, very different than Smash's "floaty" swordsmen. Once again, despite the size similarity, it's not likely that Brave will play like Toon Link because he doesn't have the stats of a swordsmen, he has the stats of someone who fights hand to hand or has mid range projectiles.
I can totally buy an Erdrick that fights with a lot of spells or even a Rosalina type deal where he sends monsters out to fight.
 

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Something I mulled over regarding the stats for "Brave"; we know the character's stats make them more in line with zoning characters like Pac Man and Mii Gunner, but if it were a sword user, "Brave" would be the worst one in the entire game. That, and given that Square and by extension the proxies for DQ are fairly protective of their characters and how they're portrayed, I don't think they would've approved Erdrick or any DQ character for that matter to have stats that terrible and would take issue with it, especially when Cloud is one of the best in both 4 and Ultimate if you go by tier lists.
It's not even tier lists. He's actually fairly overpowered in 4. Bayonetta was more so, even after the patch. Though if I remember right, Sakurai had Cloud easy to use to make him more serviceable.

I can totally buy an Erdrick that fights with a lot of spells or even a Rosalina type deal where he sends monsters out to fight.
Honestly, this is such an easy ability for the Hero Class alone to do I could totally see it happen. He's super versatile. Also part of why I support Slime. Same versatility. Just Slime can't use armor/weapons, but otherwise, they can do pretty much identical stuff in the series. I wonder if this could be why Erdrick would be chosen, because of the armor/weapons give him more mechanic choices. They both have more than enough potential for uniqueness, but Slime doesn't have something as stand out as the armor/weapons that could be implemented in a highly interesting way.
 

MattX20

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I can totally buy an Erdrick that fights with a lot of spells or even a Rosalina type deal where he sends monsters out to fight.
Problem is that Erdrick isn't known for magic uses much, they're more the standard sword user in a JRPG. And Robin would make that version of Erdrick seem redundant. Third party characters are supposed to be portrayed as uniquely as possible after all.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Problem is that Erdrick isn't known for magic uses much, they're more the standard sword user in a JRPG. And Robin would make that version of Erdrick seem redundant. Third party characters are supposed to be portrayed as uniquely as possible after all.
I’d argue that Erdrick isn’t known for much at all. Having Erdrick play like they play in their game isn’t really a crazy thing to assume.

I'm just gonna be honest; for Erdrick to be anything like Brave, so many liberties would need to be taken that there's basically no point in it being Erdrick at all. Sakurai could name him "My OC sword mage"
Erdrick is a magic user. Also wields whips and axes and spears and sickles and more.

That’s all in the game. No creative liberty or artistic license has to be taken.
 
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I’d argue that Erdrick isn’t known for much at all. Having Erdrick play like they play in their game isn’t really a crazy thing to assume.



Erdrick is a magic user. Also wields whips and axes and spears and sickles and more.

That’s all in the game. No creative liberty or artistic license has to be taken.
He's using a sword in every single promotional image I can find of him. The sword and the giant shield are his main motifs.
 

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I’d argue that Erdrick isn’t known for much at all. Having Erdrick play like they play in their game isn’t really a crazy thing to assume.



Erdrick is a magic user. Also wields whips and axes and spears and sickles and more.

That’s all in the game. No creative liberty or artistic license has to be taken.
The official artwork for Erdrick doesn't give off that impression at all, where as Robin is often depicted with spell books or tomes. That, and I have a hard time believing heavy looking shields for the character would allow them to be that floaty.
 

GoodGrief741

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He's using a sword in every single promotional image I can find of him. The sword and the giant shield are his main motifs.
So? Link is usually shown with a sword and shield in most artwork, yet he uses other stuff in his games and therefore he does in Smash as well. Hell, BotW Link is frequently shown using a bow and arrow, that didn’t suddenly lead to an overhaul of his moveset to be mainly arrow based.

The Belmonts are seen with whips in their artworks, they use plenty of weapons. Snake and Captain Falcon are frequently depicted with handguns they don’t use in Smash, and don’t get me started on Ganondorf’s sword.

Artwork is not the end-all be-all for a character’s representation.

Edit: will tag MattX20 MattX20 since this also answers him
 
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MattX20

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So? Link is usually shown with a sword and shield in most artwork, yet he uses other stuff in his games and therefore he does in Smash as well. Hell, BotW Link is frequently shown using a bow and arrow, that didn’t suddenly lead to an overhaul of his moveset to be mainly arrow based.

The Belmonts are seen with whips in their artworks, they use plenty of weapons. Snake and Captain Falcon are frequently depicted with handguns they don’t use in Smash, and don’t get me started on Ganondorf’s sword.

Artwork is not the end-all be-all for a character’s representation.

Edit: will tag MattX20 MattX20 since this also answers him
True, artwork isn't the be-all end-all for character depictions, but the fact that Erdrick's companions are more notable spell users doesn't help him much here.
 

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True, artwork isn't the be-all end-all for character depictions, but the fact that Erdrick's companions are more notable spell users doesn't help him much here.
And yet Ness got in while using his companions' moves. If anything, this is a better way to represent the Hero Class, which Erdrick is the frontliner for, with tons of what the class is capable of doing. There's no reason he can't use those spells anyway. Those characters aren't getting in, he is. For that matter, having alts with references to the other classes fixes that issue.
 

GoodGrief741

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True, artwork isn't the be-all end-all for character depictions, but the fact that Erdrick's companions are more notable spell users doesn't help him much here.
Well, that’s par for the course with Heroes always being the Jack-of-All-Trades, so it doesn’t really matter imo. Plus, well, DQIII party members aren’t even characters. And Erdrick does get his own exclusive spells like the lightning element ones.

Compared to a character like Ness, who is more of a support character, I think the argument could be made that playing Erdrick as an offensive Mage is a more viable strategy.
 

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The stats don't match any sort of weapon user aside from close range fighters though. The aerial movement actually isn't too far off from Zero Suit Samus and Greninja but, again, super average ground speed. Imagine Roy with average ground speed and you'd see why the playstyle wouldn't work. Floaty characters usually have poor range while sword users typically don't. Roy, Chrom, and Metaknight have poor range as far as sword users go but are super fast on the ground to compensate. Mewtwo has the range of a sword fighter, fast, and super floaty but is also tied for 5th lightest character in the game to compensate. Brave is also almost equal to Mario in weight. As I pointed out before, the floaty swordsmen in Smash are fast and light. Brave is neither. He doesn't have the stats of a swordsman and shares more similarities with Duck Hunt than Marth, oddly enough.
 

MattX20

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And yet Ness got in while using his companions' moves. If anything, this is a better way to represent the Hero Class, which Erdrick is the frontliner for, with tons of what the class is capable of doing. There's no reason he can't use those spells anyway. Those characters aren't getting in, he is. For that matter, having alts with references to the other classes fixes that issue.
Well, that’s par for the course with Heroes always being the Jack-of-All-Trades, so it doesn’t really matter imo. Plus, well, DQIII party members aren’t even characters. And Erdrick does get his own exclusive spells like the lightning element ones.

Compared to a character like Ness, who is more of a support character, I think the argument could be made that playing Erdrick as an offensive Mage is a more viable strategy.
I could also point out that Cloud in his home game uses magic too, yet there's nothing magic based/like apart from the sword slash projectile in Smash 4 and Ultimate.
 
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MattX20

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Yet that’s also an example of how you can just make a swordfighter and still make him completely unique.
But as discussed, "Brave" is a horrible sword user going by the stats. The stats point to zoning being the character strength, and unless the character is known for zoning in his home series, it will feel like it doesn't fit. Also Fatmanonice Fatmanonice , how do the stats for "Brave" compare to Robin's?
 

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But as discussed, "Brave" is a horrible sword user going by the stats. The stats point to zoning being the character strength, and unless the character is known for zoning in his home series, it will feel like it doesn't fit. Also Fatmanonice Fatmanonice , how do the stats for "Brave" compare to Robin's?
Here is I believe the ariel lag comparison between Robin and brave, correct me if I'm wrong Fatmanonice Fatmanonice

Robin/Brave:
Nair: 11/15
Fair: 11/13
Bair: 11/13
Uair: 11/10
Dair: 16/18
 
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I could also point out that Cloud in his home game uses magic too, yet there's nothing magic based/like apart from the sword slash projectile in Smash 4 and Ultimate.
Because Limit Break was a key component to how Final Fantasy VII's gameplay is.

You know what is a key component to Dragon Quest's gameplay? Magic, Weapons, Armor. Erdrick does all of this. It makes sense for him to do all of this.

Also, the stats suggest he has a lot of non-physical attacks, which is pretty good for a more Magical Knight, which is pretty much the idea of how the Hero Class started in the series. They aren't supposed to be extremely strong by default, but versatile instead. The stats actually sound pretty correct for that. They are also not final stats and might be one small part of the current gameplay testing. Zoning is one way to interpret a magic user's abilities, after all. Look at Zelda's Din's Fire. That is a complete change from the series, where it's a massive surrounding burning damage attack. In here it's just a slowly moving delayed explosion. The only things it has in common is there's a delay before it goes off and that it's, well, Fire. Nayru's Love isn't a Reflector normally. Farore's Wind is the only one to kind of resemble the original, as it lets you get back to the safe part of the stage, but not even then. Technically speaking, Transform is the only accurate magical move Zelda has. She never summons a Phantom, but instead goes into it, so theoretically she's calling Toon Zelda for help instead of just a Phantom.

I could go on, but you're expecting way too much accuracy as if that's a key factor. Remaining faithful to their games isn't about having 100% accuracy, it's about trying to make you feel like the character is from the games. Ness is faithful because he skills represent the game he's from. Ganondorf is actually pretty faithful because he was created to be holder of the Triforce of Power in human form, has artwork of him physically assaulting Link(which he fully does in later games), still uses magic, and finally, is hyper strong, just like in the actual games. Sure, he doesn't use every canon move, but uses more than he used to. Ironically he uses a non-canon sword in Smash in Ultimate(and what was intended during Melee), but that's okay because it actually improved his range and made him even more viable, which he already started to get better when Smash 4 gave him a lot of buffs. He was still best in Melee, but they removed his extreme heavyweight issue in Ultimate and beefed him up. Doesn't seem like he's doing better tier-wise, but he got vast changes. The sword thing is more fanservice for those who want him with one, and it was done well without compromising his gameplay. Each Smash attack has fairly similar hitboxes to his old ones, plus more. He isn't extremely different either.
 
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Thanks guy! And yes, I love playing as Ridley. He's a lot of fun imo however I still haven't decided on a main yet for Ultimate. I just chose him because I've been playing him the most so far and he was my number 2 hopeful since Brawl. I've been playing a lot of Cloud too lately because 1) my hype for the VII remake is through the goddamn roof and I've been waiting for years to get that thing in my hands and B) I never did get the DLC for the 3DS version so he was still pretty new to me once I unlocked him. Funny enough he was the last character I unlocked in Ultimate and I've been using him a lot online.

If Geno gets in, I just know I'll be playing the piss out of him as well.

As far as the Brave stats go, my heart wants to say Geno. I can see how a lot of those stats can fit his character and I can imagine his play style being similar to what's been revealed so far but my brain is saying Erdrick. DQ is the one SE series I'm not too familiar with which is funny because I've played just about everything else SE has released. I can't deny the success that DQ has received though and I'll be more than happy to give Erdrick a shot assuming it's him. If I was Nintendo though I'd push hard for Geno mainly because he's a good rep to have for their flagship series. It just makes sense. The Mario franchise gets a cool rep and Square gets money out of it, like amiibo's for example. I don't collect them and never bought one. I don't even plan on getting K. Rool, Ridley or any of my past mains for that matter, but I would 110% get a Geno one. Hell, I'll buy 2. One for out of box and another that's still in its packaging.
I actually main Cloud. Ridley, Richter, and Mario are my secondary mains. My primary mains are Cloud and Simon. We got great taste and you are now becoming one of my favorites on here, haha. If Geno does make it in, I don't care how well, bad, or what he's considered on the tier list, he will 100% be my #1 primary main. I've been wanting Geno in Smash for over 10 years, and he's reserved and deserves to be on the top of my pyramid. I plan on getting the Final Fantasy VII remake for my Xbox One, and because I never finished FF7, I do plan on getting it for my Switch, along with Final Fantasy 9, but I have no plans getting Final Fantasy 10.

I like the fact that you came here after 10 years and are already on topic when it comes to a third-party character's profits. Fatmanonice Fatmanonice talked about this a month ago during speculation, but I can see Nintendo pushing for Geno because Sakurai wants him, he's from their flagship series, he's the easiest Square character to get since he's 100% owned by Square and not owned by multiple companies, SMRPG's composer has already been on board since Brawl, he's been highly requested by the fans since the pre-Brawl days, and it seems like they can already use him in the game in any shape or form. I actually don't think "Brave" is Geno, but if he is... oh man, we will be in a great timeline and the gate will be open for spirits to get their chance as a DLC character. And if Geno is our DLC character, I hope to see Vista Hill as his stage. And for a bonus, BestGuyEver will make an awesome tribute video and montage of Geno, just like he did for Ridley, Simon, and King K. Rool.

There's also a lot of evidence leading towards Geno possibly reappearing in something soon: A senior artist at Nintendo drawing him back in 2015 and saying SMRPG was a big topic being discussed at Nintendo, so he felt right to draw him; then there was the tweet from Nintendo back in May 2018 wishing SMRPG a happy 22nd birthday; and then there's the Vifam figurine Sakurai bought back in 2016 for one of his projects, saying he needed the figurine's rifle as a reference for something, and so far we still have no clue what it's being used for since we saw all the guns/rifles in Smash Ultimate, and no one uses a similar rifle design like the Vifam figure does... also, the rifle shoots beams, and we all know who shoots beams from their gun. Hopefully there's a Super Mario RPG sequel coming to the Switch or Geno coming to Smash... or both.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
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Tinfoil hat time;

With a recent data mine showing snes games in the pipeline for switch (we all knew they’d come eventually, just now we might be able to guess it’s soon), I think the next dlc character will be announced along them. It’ll be some sort of character mostly likely known on the snes.


And since the datamine, I’m thinking sometime this month.

This could help geno’s chances a tiny bit, as it might narrow the potential se characters down to only snes picks.

Also if this is true, and Nintendo does this same thing for n64 games, this would skyrocket banjo’s chances.
 

Fatmanonice

Unironically mains weird characters.
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Fatmanonice
Here is I believe the ariel lag comparison between Robin and brave, correct me if I'm wrong Fatmanonice Fatmanonice

Robin/Brave:
Nair: 11/15
Fair: 11/13
Bair: 11/13
Uair: 11/10
Dair: 16/18
This information was wrong. Joker and Brave currently have the same aerial lag but that will probably change.

Joker:

N- 6
F- 12
B-8
U-8
D- 10

Joker is also as fast as Mewtwo and slightly lighter than Marth/Lucina. Comparing aerial lag data, Joker is very similar to Metaknight, Mewtwo, Roy/Chrom, and Inkling. All are pretty fast rushdown characters so the aerial lag data makes sense. These same stats wouldn't make sense on Brave given his movement similarities to Mario, Wario, Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, etc.

https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ead-training-mode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/
 
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