Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

Zack E.

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Muh God... I remember you! Weren't you on Nsider too? One of the coolest things about this cycle is all the people who have come back after not being in the speculation game since Brawl to give us support. Thanks for the well wishes.

Onto Brave, it is a weird situation. Brave is floaty but moves decently fast in the air and falls fast. I believe the most floaty swordsman right now is Toon Link (tied with Metaknight) but he doesn't fall particularly fast while Brave is in top ten. Of course, Toon Link and Metaknight are fast on the ground to make up for it but Brave is perfectly average. Might be worth matching these up to see who they are most similar to.

To people popping in, the public release of Brave's stats have made even supporters of Erdrick doubt that it's adult Erdrick. Based on the stats, it's definitely not a grown man in heavy armor and comparing the stats to the likes of Ike, Link, and the Belmonts makes it pretty apparent. Good aerial movement but average ground movement, further complicated by a slide almost as pronounced as Luigi's. I'm trying to mull over how the character is supposed to play because it's very different from most swordsmen.
Wouldn't brave play like a zoner?
 

Fatmanonice

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Wouldn't brave play like a zoner?
Based on the stats, more than likely. Floaty is usually reserved for characters with long range options like Toon Link, Villager, and Olimar or crap range but high combo ability like Kirby, Jigglypuff, and Mario. Floaty character typically have good recoveries too, another trait that's not typical of swordsmen. If they have good recoveries, this is usually balanced out by them being light like in the case of Metaknight. Brave is slightly heavier than Mario and one of Mario's biggest weaknesses is lack of range. Aside from Metaknight and arguably Roy, sword fighters fight with range. Roy is one of the fatest ground and aerial characters in the game but has a **** recovery while Metaknight is super light but has the most recovery options in the game. Again, Brave's aerial movement is as good as Mario and Roy but ground movement like Luigi so the principle of an up and close sword fighter would be severally flawed with this design. This said, it gives more credence to the character being a zoner rather than a butter knife swordsmen like Roy or Metaknight.
 
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Zack E.

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Based on the stats, more than likely. Floaty is usually reserved for characters with long range options like Toon Link, Villager, and Olimar or crap range but high combo ability like Kirby, Jigglypuff, and Mario. Floaty character typically have good recoveries too, another trait that's not typical of swordsmen. If they have good recoveries, this is usually balanced out by them being light like in the case of Metaknight. Brave is slightly heavier than Mario and one of Mario's biggest weaknesses is lack of range. Aside from Metaknight and arguably Roy, sword fighters fight with range. Roy is one of the fatest ground and aerial characters in the game but has a **** recovery while Metaknight is super light but has the most recovery options in the game. Again, Brave's aerial movement is as good as Mario and Roy but ground movement like Luigi so the principle of an up and close sword fighter would be severally flawed with this design. This said, it gives more credence to the character being a zoner rather than a butter knife swordsmen like Roy or Metaknight.
That's interesting to know.

The 2 that are on my mind right now are Geno and Sans. If it's not either one of them, I don't know who it is. I think whoever it is, it's going to be either a really surprising reveal, Sans, or Geno.

Btw I was underleveled when I battled Jonathan Jones and it was stupidly difficult.

Next I fight Yaridovich
 
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That's interesting to know.

The 2 that are on my mind right now are Geno and Sans. If it's not either one of them, I don't know who it is. I think whoever it is, it's going to be either a really surprising reveal, Sans, or Geno.

Btw I was underleveled when I battled Jonathan Jones and it was stupidly difficult.

Next I fight Yaridovich
I remember playing Mario RPG for the first time last year and I beat all the bosses up to Smithy without the shell armor. I didn't even find out about the shell armor until after I got stuck in the Smithy fight and left Bowser's Castle. That was the only time I used it was against Smithy.
 
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Latyon

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Well uh, that would easily give it away. I think the developers learned that about now, especially since it happened in Smash 4. Jino is his name in Japanese, so that's a complete dead giveaway. These would be good codenames:

-Jack (Joker).
-Brave (Whoever this is).
-String/Music (Banjo). You need string in order to play a banjo, and it plays music. This could throw people off into thinking it could be PaRappa.
-Magic (Black Mage). This will throw a lot of people off, but magic could be anyone. One of the most-known video game characters that uses magic are the Black Mages from Final Fantasy.
-Legend (Geno). Referencing the game he made his first appearance in, and we know other codenames will give his secret away.
-Holy (Lloyd). Deeper meaning to his real name, Lloyd, is "llwyd" in the Welsh language, which meant "holy" during the medieval times.
-Sea (Alucard). Deeper meaning to his real name, Adrian, relating to the supposed origin of the name "Adrian", which many believed it originated from the sea.
-Infinite (Rodin). Rodin is also known as the Infinite One, and this would throw people off into thinking it's Infinite from Sonic Forces.
-Alien (Sephiroth). Sephiroth is also half-alien, and this would definitely throw people off.
-Block (Tetris Block). This will throw people off thinking it's Steve.
-Wart (Rash). Referencing the myth of touching toads will give you warts, also throwing people off thinking it's King Wart from SMB2.
-Clock (Crono). Referencing the clock in the Chrono Trigger logo.
These are terrible codenames.
 
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That's interesting to know.

The 2 that are on my mind right now are Geno and Sans. If it's not either one of them, I don't know who it is. I think whoever it is, it's going to be either a really surprising reveal, Sans, or Geno.

Btw I was underleveled when I battled Jonathan Jones and it was stupidly difficult.

Next I fight Yaridovich
Protip: ignore only one of Johnny's henchmen and focus on him before taking out said henchman when that happens.

That said, I figure it could be an older lesser-known character along the lines of "huh, that's clever, why didn't I think of that?" in regards of character pick possibilities. Which I honestly hope for.

Edit: By the way, do any of you guys think there will be a Direct later this month? The Brave coding being present this early might lead to a trailer reveal happening in a Direct coming relatively soon.
 
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Brave hasn't been revealed yet. A codename does not a character confirm.
[insert obligatory admission that erdrick is still likely here]
Hot take: the codename may not actually mean anything and just be a simple counter-measure, that's all. Kinda like using coded language in the military.

It's likely that when most people think they've got it all figured out, they'll wind up being blindsided anyway.
 
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Fatmanonice

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My statement still stands, a codename does not a character confirm. I don't see why such a thing should have any effect on someone's optimism.
That's where I'm at. Joker was only known after the fact because the codename was so esoteric. "Brave/Hero" might as well be a name if it really is Erdrick. It's like if Mario was a DLC and his "codename" was Plumber. Like I said the other day, "Brave" is so regularly paired with Dragon Quest that it's even used with merchandise in Japan. In other words, it's a really, really bad codename if the goal was to keep the identity of the character secret.
 

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That's where I'm at. Joker was only known after the fact because the codename was so esoteric. "Brave/Hero" might as well be a name if it really is Erdrick. It's like if Mario was a DLC and his "codename" was Plumber. Like I said the other day, "Brave" is so regularly paired with Dragon Quest that it's even used with merchandise in Japan. In other words, it's a really, really bad codename if the goal was to keep the identity of the character secret.
That's not really a good comparison. We have no idea why Jack is used for Joker. It isn't necessarily Jack of all Trades, which is more similar to what Brave/Hero means. It could be referring to Jack Frost, a character from the same franchise, which clues us in only that it's the same franchise at best. Or even referring to the playing cards(which Joker is a known name among those). That's ignoring the Tarot stuff, which is more what he's about, but the Tarot cards are not really as American as the Playing Cards are, and this is the US version of the game being datamined. Brave does not refer to some class or something. It can be many possible references that logically can point to the character in any kind of way. Yuri due to their group he leads, the whole Brave aspect is a huge part of Agumon's character, a not-very-obvious reference to Bravely Default, or just the Class. We don't have enough codenames to come to a proper conclusion. Just many possible ones.

If it weren't for the leaks, Erdrick would not be obvious.
 
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Not saying I want any of you guys to look like clowns but I'm going to have myself a hearty laugh if February 2020 gets here with no Erdrick after all this hubbub about him.
I'm pretty much expecting people to have been worried for nothing. As always.

Though it would still mean the possibility for my DQ faves to get in will remain far away...
 

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Brave isn't a class but Hero definitely is. "Yusha" can translate to Brave or Hero in Japanese. Hero if the default class of the main character of a vast majority of the mainstream Dragon Quest games. Erdrick is basically the Marth of the series with him being a factor in most of them and the first three games in the series focusing on his story. Dragon Quest III, the one where Erdrick was actually playable, has also been remade the most of any of the games in the series. This all said, he's the logical pick if Dragon Quest got a playable rep.
 

Dynamic Worlock

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Brave isn't a class but Hero definitely is. "Yusha" can translate to Brave or Hero in Japanese. Hero if the default class of the main character of a vast majority of the mainstream Dragon Quest games. Erdrick is basically the Marth of the series with him being a factor in most of them and the first three games in the series focusing on his story. Dragon Quest III, the one where Erdrick was actually playable, has also been remade the most of any of the games in the series. This all said, he's the logical pick if Dragon Quest got a playable rep.
Hero is such a ubiquitous term that it could apply to any number of things, really.
 

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Brave isn't a class but Hero definitely is. "Yusha" can translate to Brave or Hero in Japanese. Hero if the default class of the main character of a vast majority of the mainstream Dragon Quest games. Erdrick is basically the Marth of the series with him being a factor in most of them and the first three games in the series focusing on his story. Dragon Quest III, the one where Erdrick was actually playable, has also been remade the most of any of the games in the series. This all said, he's the logical pick if Dragon Quest got a playable rep.
This is the English version, which explicitly says Brave.

That's not actual evidence at all. Just a reasonable conclusion and one possibility of many. Don't latch onto one thing too much. You're applying confirmation bias while ignoring other reasonable possibilities. Again, you're only treating it like Jack has one meaning, when there's three things that tie it to Joker. We need more information before only one possibility can exist. Just like Jack, though, this could easily be pointing to DQ content, not Erdrick specifically. It's just as easily able to be Slime if we take a look at what Jack actually means. Packun, in this case, is very similar to the Japanese name of Piranha Plant, whereas Jack is nowhere near that similar of a name to Joker. Thus, they aren't the same situation at all. There's too many variables.

Slime is extremely logical as a DQ pick too. He's the mascot and most known worldwide. Erdrick is just the other equally logical pick overall. Erdrick isn't really the Marth either in the same way. Marth is the first protagonist introduced. Erdrick is the third one introduced. There's a flaw in that comparison since people know the generic first hero even more than Erdrick overall.
 
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Hero is such a ubiquitous term that it could apply to any number of things, really.
Yes. It's about as vague as Reggie's statement of "these fighters are new to the series".

This is the English version, which explicitly says Brave.

That's not actual evidence at all. Just a reasonable conclusion and one possibility of many. Don't latch onto one thing too much. You're applying confirmation bias while ignoring other reasonable possibilities. Again, you're only treating it like Jack has one meaning, when there's three things that tie it to Joker. We need more information before only one possibility can exist. Just like Jack, though, this could easily be pointing to DQ content, not Erdrick specifically. It's just as easily able to be Slime if we take a look at what Jack actually means. Packun, in this case, is very similar to the Japanese name of Piranha Plant, whereas Jack is nowhere near that similar of a name to Joker. Thus, they aren't the same situation at all. There's too many variables.

Slime is extremely logical as a DQ pick too. He's the mascot and most known worldwide. Erdrick is just the other equally logical pick overall. Erdrick isn't really the Marth either in the same way. Marth is the first protagonist introduced. Erdrick is the third one introduced. There's a flaw in that comparison since people know the generic first hero even more than Erdrick overall.
There's also one of the popular secondary characters that could be picked, probably someone from VIII, since that's the Final fantasy VII of the series in terms of Western familiarity.
 
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Chinderblock

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There's also one of the popular secondary characters that could be picked, probably someone from VIII, since that's the Final fantasy VII of the series in terms of Western familiarity.
Eh, not really. Cloud is much closer to what Erdrick is, severely major to the series. It's not just about being popular, but also being important. Final Fantasy has a lot of recurring characters, but Cloud took the world by storm. Erdrick is pretty much in the same position, bar the fact he isn't as popular as Slime, where Cloud easily outdwarfs Chocobo and Moogle by far. Black Mage I wouldn't say comes close to those three either. It was a popular choice for Smash cause he was unique among the 1st game classes.
 

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Having Slime in over Erdrick or any DQ hero would be like having a Goomba in over Mario. It's a common enemy, in fact, the most common enemy in the series. Slime is the most recognizable DQ character worldwide, yes, but it's not significant. It once had a spin-off series but it was only three games, it ended in 2011, and only the second game released outside Japan in 2006. I can't see them going with Slime if they can't even justify a character like Toad for being too generic and plain Jane.
 

MattX20

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Having Slime in over Erdrick or any DQ hero would be like having a Goomba in over Mario. It's a common enemy, in fact, the most common enemy in the series. Slime is the most recognizable DQ character worldwide, yes, but it's not significant. It once had a spin-off series but it was only three games, it ended in 2011, and only the second game released outside Japan in 2006. I can't see them going with Slime if they can't even justify a character like Toad for being too generic and plain Jane.
That, and as stated by your and Slender's observations yesterday, the stats for Brave don't match up with any main character from DQ, especially Erdrick. The codename at this point I feel is a deliberate red herring to disguise the true identity of the character.
 

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Having Slime in over Erdrick or any DQ hero would be like having a Goomba in over Mario. It's a common enemy, in fact, the most common enemy in the series. Slime is the most recognizable DQ character worldwide, yes, but it's not significant. It once had a spin-off series but it was only three games, it ended in 2011, and only the second game released outside Japan in 2006. I can't see them going with Slime if they can't even justify a character like Toad for being too generic and plain Jane.
Slime is not only the mascot of the series(unlike Goomba), but also has multiple forms and abilities(which Goomba barely has), and stars in its own games(again, unlike Goomba).

The comparison falls flat entirely. Slime is highly significant however. He's the mascot not just cause he's cute, but he also inspired the entire archtype of enemies, and has well over 20 different forms. Actually, way more than that. It's one of the most diverse races in gaming history, with no one in Mario coming close bar Mario himself at best. Goomba doesn't have that many either, and only a few are kind of similar to what Slime has. It's a bad comparison. Besides that, Goomba didn't inspire an entire archtype of enemies to be used in thousands of games, now did it? It's just popular because it's a well-known enemy. That doesn't make it remotely viable as a Smash character, as they need actual abilities to make into a moveset. Slime has a ton of official abilities among its series. Toad... actually doesn't. He has a very lackluster amount of known abilities and does not really stand out as unique in the Mario universe. Slime has unique abilities that other monsters in the series don't use, but more importantly, has a ton of official stuff that only works with the race. Take the Slime Healers. Healing is not that common in DQ for monsters. At least not compared to actual Heroes/Classes using it. For that matter, let's look at the Metal Slime. It's what inspired the "becoming Metal make you near invincible" type of thing. Metal Mario is pretty much the same idea. You don't see Metallize as a common ability, but you do see it as a hard power-up or a separate character instead. Those are just two examples of enemies within the Slime family that are fairly unique or helped inspired RPG's to come.

Slime is the de facto "first enemy" and pushed into other games to represent Dragon Quest. Goomba? Definitely not in the same way. He's got the first enemy bit down, but let's not pretend he's put in much of anything. Or has enough actual abilities to make a moveset. Or does much that super stands out on its own(what, you think headbonking is that unique? It isn't). We also don't a liquidy fighter either, so Slime already stands out way more than Goomba in comparison.
 

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Yeah, I would compare Slime to Pikachu
How did I not think to say that? Yeah, pretty much. Slime is Dragon Quest's Pikachu.

There's a reason why Red(and not even) didn't get in till Brawl. Pikachu came first, being the series mascot. Pokemon Trainer(based more upon the class than a specific character) had no way to show off what mattered, being a commander of Pokemon. Even then, it would've made sense to put him in 64 in the BG as is to represent the class, but still focus on PIkachu, if just putting in the player protagonist was all that mattered. But that's not really all that matters. Mascots very often come first as is because they're far more recognizable, or have better moveset potential.
 
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I mean, the very first thing you run into for an enemy encounter in any DQ is "A slime draws near! Command?". Not even Mario games and their spin-offs have this kind of attendance record.

The codename at this point I feel is a deliberate red herring to disguise the true identity of the character.
I get the feeling that it will very much be the case, and these entire conversations will have been moot. At this point I want a Direct with a reveal in it to happen this month just so this nonsense can stop. :dizzy:
 
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Having Slime in over Erdrick or any DQ hero would be like having a Goomba in over Mario. It's a common enemy, in fact, the most common enemy in the series. Slime is the most recognizable DQ character worldwide, yes, but it's not significant. It once had a spin-off series but it was only three games, it ended in 2011, and only the second game released outside Japan in 2006. I can't see them going with Slime if they can't even justify a character like Toad for being too generic and plain Jane.
Would it be like having a Piranha over Geno?
 

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Slime is not only the mascot of the series(unlike Goomba), but also has multiple forms and abilities(which Goomba barely has), and stars in its own games(again, unlike Goomba).

The comparison falls flat entirely. Slime is highly significant however. He's the mascot not just cause he's cute, but he also inspired the entire archtype of enemies, and has well over 20 different forms. Actually, way more than that. It's one of the most diverse races in gaming history, with no one in Mario coming close bar Mario himself at best. Goomba doesn't have that many either, and only a few are kind of similar to what Slime has. It's a bad comparison. Besides that, Goomba didn't inspire an entire archtype of enemies to be used in thousands of games, now did it? It's just popular because it's a well-known enemy. That doesn't make it remotely viable as a Smash character, as they need actual abilities to make into a moveset. Slime has a ton of official abilities among its series. Toad... actually doesn't. He has a very lackluster amount of known abilities and does not really stand out as unique in the Mario universe. Slime has unique abilities that other monsters in the series don't use, but more importantly, has a ton of official stuff that only works with the race. Take the Slime Healers. Healing is not that common in DQ for monsters. At least not compared to actual Heroes/Classes using it. For that matter, let's look at the Metal Slime. It's what inspired the "becoming Metal make you near invincible" type of thing. Metal Mario is pretty much the same idea. You don't see Metallize as a common ability, but you do see it as a hard power-up or a separate character instead. Those are just two examples of enemies within the Slime family that are fairly unique or helped inspired RPG's to come.

Slime is the de facto "first enemy" and pushed into other games to represent Dragon Quest. Goomba? Definitely not in the same way. He's got the first enemy bit down, but let's not pretend he's put in much of anything. Or has enough actual abilities to make a moveset. Or does much that super stands out on its own(what, you think headbonking is that unique? It isn't). We also don't a liquidy fighter either, so Slime already stands out way more than Goomba in comparison.
Are slimes known for being very floaty?
 

Zack E.

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I mean; if we end up not getting Geno, he kind of did tbh.
Getting in over Geno would be like an either-or situation.

Fans see this as an either-or situation when, in reality, Sakurai just wants to add a character. He's not choosing one character because he can't add the other
 

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PP did not "get in over Geno" ffs.

How many times do we have to say this
You seem to be missing his point, though.

Just being a protagonist/non-enemy isn't going to get you in. PP got in because he was unique. Geno not getting in is clearly Square-Enix not playing ball with Nintendo and Sakurai for it. Enemies can get in over the regular character. Again, Pikachu and pretty much most Pokemon, who are simply random enemies in practice.

Nothing is that simple. I don't think Erdrick is inherently likely at all. Brave is too meaningless and broad to indefinitely mean the class. We have no real evidence that Erdrick is actually getting in, just a lot of people hearing the name, which we know doesn't mean much with how Square intentionally gives leakbait. Only one person, Tansut, is really the only thing making it very believable. He's the only one who know of Cloud before his announcement. That's a key thing.

Are slimes known for being very floaty?
They can be due to their vast races, but being floaty didn't make a moveset alone. Peach had way more going for her than that. She had rpg moves, her unique float ability(nobody else could do that), sports moves, and her turnips. Magic I think started being used for her moveset in Brawl, a holdover from the rpg's and her own game.

I mean; if we end up not getting Geno, he kind of did tbh.
That's not accurate. They weren't in competition with each other. Geno was tried to get in by Sakurai for the fans. PP didn't have fan support and is its own joke character. If anything, they'd be both in if Geno worked out.
 

Zack E.

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Sakurai didn't actively decide Plant should be in before Geno. The latter has complicated legal issues in which the holding company show absolutely no interest in.
Lets not start with the "no interest in."

If true, SMRPG would not have been re-released 3 times in 10 years

If true, Geno wouldn't have gotten a Mii costume in Smash 4

If true, Geno wouldn't have gotten a LEGENDARY spirit in Ultimate
 
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