General Retro Newcomer Discussion

[StormC]

The average person didn't know what a Game & Watch was back in 2001.

No, but they didn't confuse him for a real life French military leader.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I have a great idea for a retro character, NES Trio. Clu Clu, Excitebiker, and Balloon Fighter, act like Rick, Kine, and Coo in Star Allies.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I doubt that recognizability alone would have Sakurai exclude the idea of Hanafuda, the significant importance Hanafuda has in Nintendo history would more than make up for it for Hanafuda to be the next ideal retro "surprise" character. Hanafuda is also one of those cases where I think being mostly recognized and known in Japan would not be a big issue.

 

[StormC]

I doubt that recognizability alone would have Sakurai exclude the idea of Hanafuda, the significant importance Hanafuda has in Nintendo history would more than make up for it for Hanafuda to be the next ideal retro "surprise" character. Hanafuda is also one of those cases where I think being mostly recognized and known in Japan would not be a big issue.

Nobody working at Nintendo today was actually alive when they were known for making Hanafuda cards. And putting in a real life historical figure - one with a very controversial reputation - is something Nintendo almost certainly doesn't want to dabble in.

Have they ever even been featured in a Nintendo game?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yes, these are recent appearances of Hanafuda in 2018 Nintendo games:

I doubt that controversy matters.

Links if images are broken:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw..._tamagotchilike_labo_game_has_a_reference_to/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=b7oGApm4UuQ

 

[Juliusaurus]

Hanafuda itself isn't enough to me, unless they can really capture a gameplay gimmick for it... But, my idea was pretty much a smorgasbord of all sorts of pre-videogame Nintendo content rolled up into one character, including hanafuda. Whether that's the mini kangaroo, 9-volt, or a crude Napoleon himself (not that I'd ever really want that, haha), and find the game element within those old Nintendo doodads could be, the ULTIMATE retro character.

You can't get more retro than that, honestly. Hanafuda is the literal beginnings of Nintendo, so if Sakurai wants the namesake of the game to apply to this character, that'd be the way to go!

 

[BluePikmin11]

I thought about a combination of Hanafuda and toys into one character once. But i think they should be separate these character ideas, because both concepts are unique and standout. There are enough early Nintendo toys to assemble a moveset from and the Hanafuda cards could summon Japanese cultural stuff like animals, plants, and talisman to play differently from other Smash characters. Combining the concepts together feels like a forced idea to me.

 

[Juliusaurus]

I tend to see them all grouped together whenever Nintendo plays their pre-video game era card, like in Wario Ware or Labo or something. If there's enough to pull from for Hanafuda alone, I'd be very cool with that, but I'm just not sure if there is, and since they're also not a video game, along with the other toys and doodads, they fit the same sort of theme. And especially when referenced in modern games, it's not often you'll see hanafuda without also seeing an Ultra-Hand or Love Tester somewhere close by.

 

[BluePikmin11]

As someone that researched card games and Hanafuda extensively, I can confidently tell you there is enough material to work on a full move-set for a Hanafuda character.

 

[smileMasky]

has anyone mentioned bubble bobble yet?

 

[Juliusaurus]

It's a third party, so I'm not sure it would count?... Maybe? It's a pretty old school game, and the rights holders are already part of Smash (Square-enix, which I couldn't believe when I heard it), so yeah, certainly possible.

But if Bomberman can only get an Assist Trophy, Bub and Bob wouldn't or shouldn't get playable over him. But I would adore it if they were Assist Trophies as well.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Nobody working at Nintendo today was actually alive when they were known for making Hanafuda cards. And putting in a real life historical figure - one with a very controversial reputation - is something Nintendo almost certainly doesn't want to dabble in.

Have they ever even been featured in a Nintendo game?

Intelligent Systems actually made a Napoleon strategy game for the Game Boy Advance, it was released only in Japan and France. (It’s actually pretty good)

 

[DonkaFjord]

Nintendo still makes some great cards... Not a big fan of Hanafuda cards as a character, but it would make a beautiful stage. I got some Splatoon cards made by Nintendo proper and they are amazing quality. They almost feel like they are plastic coated.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Personally, I think the pre-video game toys and Hanafuda would be better suited as items instead of a character.

 

[RichWalk9891]

I wonder if Chrono Trigger counts as a retro game? Would Crono be a viable contender, or is this a bad idea?

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I wonder if Chrono Trigger counts as a retro game? Would Crono be a viable contender, or is this a bad idea?

He'd be in the third party category, but he's been MIA for a while so he'd be like a retro character. Not too bad of a choice if you ask me, his game is well received and it'd be cool to have his world included (and probably would be the closest thing to getting Goku in Smash).

 

[Juliusaurus]

I wouldn't count him as a retro character. He'd be old, sure, but he'd be unlike any other retro character chosen for Smash thus far. Kinda like if Geno or K. Rool made it in, also not really retro...

I'd say anything before 1990 could qualify as retro. Since, the entire 80s is Nintendo's baby steps into gaming, whether arcade, handhelds, or home consoles. After that, they started to find their footing, and we haven't seen any newcomers from that generation or after if they weren't also relevant.

Heck, the SNES generation was actually pretty recent when Smash 64 was made. Both Metroid and Earthbound didn't get N64 outings and were represented as franchises with SNES as their most latest entries, heck, even Donkey Kong Country and Kirby Super Star were at the time too, since Smash 64 released prior to DK64 and Kirby 64. SNES was, in a way, the first relevant era for Smash Bros. to pull from. Crazy to think about.

 

[StormC]

Crono is about as retro as Cloud is.

 

[Turtlar]

Honestly, I've always felt that DK Jr. would make a good retro rep for Smash. I know the DK (and Mario) series is still very much current, but the arcade/NES era DK is a very different beast than the DKC series, pun intended.

The last true classic DK game was the incredible DK 94 for Gameboy, which was developed at the same time as the original DKC. DKC acted somewhat as a reboot for the series, changing it permanently into what we know it as now.

Considering that the DK arcade titles are what put Nintendo on the map, he's absolutely an iconic character. The reason I say DK Junior instead of Senior, is that he's the protagonist of two games, and it would avoid potential naming confusion with modern DK.

Not to say other retro characters aren't good fits or are more or less likely, but it's hard to deny that DK Jr. is probably one of the last big names in the realm of retro Nintendo not already in Smash.

 

[Juliusaurus]

I agree, the arcade DK is extremely important, and would certainly qualify as retro, and DK Jr. is cool and all... but if they really wanted to do Sr. right, they'd double down on the 8-bit references with a playable Cranky Kong (Brawl did mention how he's the original arcade DK after all, so Smash has created precedent for it).



And arguably, DK Jr. is the DK we already have playable, it would just add to the confusion. Though, I don't think any of it is likely since Sakurai already shared Arcade DK as the memory for Donkey Kong's Ultimate Tweet. Seems like it'd be enough for representing the arcade series.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If we are getting retros based on the arcade Donkey Kong games, I rather it be Jumpman:

This version of Mario is the most mischievous and villainous side of the plumber that I love so much, displaying more personality than DK and DK Jr, artwork wise and in game.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I agree, the arcade DK is extremely important, and would certainly qualify as reto, and DK Jr. is cool and all... but if they really wanted to do Sr. right, they'd double down on the 8-bit references with a playable Cranky Kong (Brawl did mention how he's the original arcade DK after all, so Smash has created precedent for it).

View attachment 154932

And arguably, DK Jr. is the DK we already have playable, it would just add to the confusion. Though, I don't think any of it is likely since Sakurai already shared Arcade DK as the memory for Donkey Kong's Ultimate Tweet. Seems like it'd be enough for representing the arcade series.

Works for me. As long as Cranky can bounce on foes McDuck-style, I can dig it.

 

[Nauzgo]

Since Sakurai only seems to include retro characters which are recognizable and have good sales, at least that was the case for ROB, IC, G&W, Pit and Duck Hunt. The only exception to this could be Lip who has, despite being Japan exclusive, a pretty big following. But I'd say this makes Ayumi, Mach Rider or Bubbles pretty unlikely.

The only NES character which fits the criteria and is left is Excitebiker. There aren't any other NES mascots left tbh. So I'd say Lip and him are most likely to be the retro rep this time - if we get one. And if they already qualify as retro, a Wars and a Golden Sun character are likely to get that spot. Beside those 4, I don't see anyone else probable. Mike, Tamagon, Sablé or Ayumi aren't well known due to not being release WW, whilst Bubbles, Mach Rider and Urban Champion suffer from low sales and characters from Pro Wrestling or Solarstriker aren't very recognizable.

You could also argue Pilotwings, Wave Race and 1080° qualify as retro. But since Pilotwings got transformed to a Mii-Franchise and Wave Race and 1080° only having normal humans with no special abilieties, I think those are very unlikely.

tl;dr: The only ones left are Excitebiker and Lip, maybe Andy and Isaac if you already count their respective franchises as retro.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If such a thread already exists I apologize and can lock or merge this one with that. Anyways title explains it. Sakurai like with Pokemon tends to give us an Retro rep for each installment. Melee had Ice Climbers and Game & Watch, Brawl had R.O.B., Smash 4 had Duck Hunt so question remains who'd get in if this game continues this trend. Though some does argue Simon technically already fills the slot but never the less thought I'm talking about an 1st Party Nintendo rep.

Here's some picks that could fill the slot.

-Balloon Fighter
-Bubbles
-Excitebiker
-Mach Rider
-Sheriff

Just to name a few.

 

[Buzzwole]

I'd love Balloon Fighter, but Villager sort of stole his thunder.
Excite Biker or Mach Rider would be really cool.

 

[Arcadenik]

I have a great idea for a retro character, NES Trio. Clu Clu, Excitebiker, and Balloon Fighter, act like Rick, Kine, and Coo in Star Allies.

You know, I had a similar idea. The character is called "NES Remix" and it's basically the four rejected NES characters - Urban Champion, Excitebiker, Balloon Fighter, and Bubbles (Clu Clu Land) - joining forces to fight together as a single unit... like Rick, Kine, and Coo in Kirby Star Allies.

Sakurai explicitly named them when he was choosing a retro character to represent the NES era in Melee and he picked Ice Climbers over them.

Their series icon would be the NES controller instead of their own series icons.

 

[verysleepywolf]

Old idea: Power Glove as a playable character.

"What? Are you serious? A joke character that would never work."

Exactly. It follows the same vein as G&W, ROB, and Duck Hunt in that nobody could wrap their mind around it. I imagine Power Glove expressing itself through hand gestures and motions in very comical ways, maybe has a hovering stance but walks with its two fingers tapping the ground, generally doing things that kids do when playing pretend with their hands. Like ROB, give Power Glove sci-fi tech. Give it heavy "ker-chunk!" noises for impacts and "psshh" noises for movements, as if it has hydraulics. It could shoot lasers, missiles, flames, perform a powerful jet punch, a ground slam, and many more. It would be incredibly epic and sit pretty next to the other SSB retro quirkies.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I like the idea of NES Remix (a character made of many NES characters swiching depending on the attack).
Anyway, most of the remaining NES characters have very limited moveset potential and they need to be very creative to make one.

This said, if they manage to make a moveset for Excitebiker that also makes sense, then it would be a nice choice.
Balloon Fighter too... also it would be nice to have Alice or Hello Kitty as an alt or an echo
(EDIT: Tingle may work as an echo too, but echoes from different franchises are probably not allowed)

Spoiler

I'm not joking, the Japanese version of Balloon Kid (Balloon Fighter's sequel) has Hello Kitty as the main character and came out on NES instead of on the Gameboy; despite being a licensed game, it's developed by Nintendo (I'm not completely sure about this, it's published by Character Soft, I don't know if they also worked on porting the game or if they only published it: the wiki is not clear enough, it lists Character Soft only as a publisher, not as a developer, but it also says they reprogrammed the game).

About Tingle, this exists for DS:

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

I feel like the Belmonts were already our retro pick.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I feel like the Belmonts were already our retro pick.

The same could had been said for Pac-Man and Mega Man in Smash 4.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I feel like the Belmonts were already our retro pick.

or K. Rool.

You can't rule out any possibility as of yet.
We need to see the full roster, listen to Sakurai, or make up our mind on who we want the Retro(s) to be post-launch.

 

[Arcadenik]

I feel like the Belmonts were already our retro pick.

Nope. IMO, it counts when it's a Nintendo character.

Melee:
Brawl:
SSB4:

We don't have many iconic Nintendo characters left from the 1980s...

I am personally rooting for Nester (Nintendo Power), Captain N (from the cartoon), Mike Jones (Star Tropics was on the NES Classic Edition), Takamaru (Sakurai considered him for SSB4), and NES Remix (NES characters rejected from Melee in favor of Ice Climbers).

 

[Oddball]

I don't think The Amazon gets enough love as a potential retro rep.

The guy's basically the Creature from the Black Lagoon in wrestling trunks. How can people not think that's awesome?

 

[Vingag]

Whew. A lot to read through here. I'm going to reply to a few things first before putting in some thoughts.

Nobody working at Nintendo today was actually alive when they were known for making Hanafuda cards.

Nintendo still makes Hanafuda cards! (See here!) So unless there's some wacky time-travel going on at Nintendo (which, to be fair, we don't know this ISN'T the case), everyone working there today is alive while Nintendo is known for making Hanafuda cards.
I recognize that Nintendo is more known for making video games now, but they still very much are in the card game and Hanafuda cards will be around probably as long as playing cards are around in the West... and the East... and in most places because playing cards have a long history in and of themselves.

has anyone mentioned bubble bobble yet?

Bub is my #1 retro choice. He "suffers" the same "problem" as some of my other retro choices, which is that Bub has been in plenty of games since the original Puzzle Bobble/Bust a Move (the most recent new game was Bust-a-Move Universe released in 2011, but as recent as 2016 there was a virtual consul release of the original Bubble Bobble platformer). Bub is also a third party character (Square-Enix, which absorbed Taito some years back), which adds another wrinkle to his getting in. Then there's the point made by Juliusaurus:

But if Bomberman can only get an Assist Trophy, Bub and Bob wouldn't or shouldn't get playable over him. But I would adore it if they were Assist Trophies as well.

As much as I'd love to see that little Bubble Dragon in Smash, it would be a pretty low blow to have them as playable while Bomberman (who is 1000x more of a gaming icon than Bub) is an assist trophy. However, if there's a Bub and Bob assist trophy where they launch bubbles at the screen from their little contraption? That would be great, adorable, and a welcome representation of this series.

I feel like the Belmonts were already our retro pick.

Yeah, I get that feeling too. Specifically Simon Belmont. I do not feel like we'll be getting any "retro" character on the base roster, and when confronted with this fan rule I think Sakurai will respond with something to the effect "What do you mean? You have Simon Belmont. OK, time to go make video games. Bye-bye!", and then Sakurai will ride off in his magical elevator back to his whimsical video game factory where he and a bunch of Oompa Loompas make Nintendo happen. And the Oompa Loompa's all have Reggie Fils-Amie's face.

Old idea: Power Glove as a playable character.

100% there with you. Especially if we're going with the "Ultimate is the Villains game!" idea, The NintendGlove (Or Power Glove, to be accurate) would be the perfect villainous foil to R.O.B. R.O.B is a hardware device that was able to help Nintendo avoid death then faded into obscurity; the NintendGlove is a hardware device that is consistently in the minds of gamers as an ill-conceived idea that may have almost killed Nintendo.
My attachment to the NintendGlove may also be me wanting Master Hand as a playable character and not wanting to have to hand wave (heh) away everyone saying "Master Hand would be too big!".
Oh, and added points if Power Glove/VirtualBoy were a duo character, sort of like Duck Hunt where VirtualBoy would act like the "eyes" and the PowerGlove would be the "feet/hands/item grabbers". They'd fight using all of the cool hi-tech things both controllers could do like: Have Vector Graphics and... throw imaginary balls. This would be a perfect character.

 

[Vingag]

On the Hanafuda thread:

I think having a character as "Hanafuda" representing all cards is more likely than having Napoleon or Tengu being a main representative and then pulling out items across all other cards. The way I see Hanafuda working is as a stack of a few cards that walks/runs by shuffling itself around, attacks by revealing a single card or a set of four, and would grab/use items by either holding onto them with its little paper tips or (better yet) by absorbing the items into a card and using them like any of their other attacks (so there would be a continuously rotating "hammer" or "golden hammer" card, or a "Star Rod" card that it would flip over whenever it wanted to shoot out a star from said rod).
I realize I may be one of the few people out there who would want to see a bunch of literal cards flopping around on stage, but I do think that's more likely than having the former Emperor of France or a representation of a Shinto god.

 

[smileMasky]

well i can only really think of 2 retro reps nintendo owns and have not really done anything with them since i guess the NES era a pro wrestler hopefully StarMan from the Pro Wrestler or Mike Jones a dead Nintendo owned IP

 

[UserKev]

I would love for Sakurai to pull a Wart. To me, Wart has the most exciting potential for a retro rep. I think Sakurai would even face a challenge not to make him op.

Playable Wart sounds so much fun, bruh.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

My favorite idea is the Excite Biker, it could rep all the latter excite games, its original game is iconic despite it not being really a "character" and the idea of someone just jumping around in a bike to fight is just funny

 

[pupNapoleon]

Hanafuda itself isn't enough to me, unless they can really capture a gameplay gimmick for it... But, my idea was pretty much a smorgasbord of all sorts of pre-videogame Nintendo content rolled up into one character, including hanafuda. Whether that's the mini kangaroo, 9-volt, or a crude Napoleon himself (not that I'd ever really want that, haha), and find the game element within those old Nintendo doodads could be, the ULTIMATE retro character.

You can't get more retro than that, honestly. Hanafuda is the literal beginnings of Nintendo, so if Sakurai wants the namesake of the game to apply to this character, that'd be the way to go!

If Nintendo revealed that their origin story was tied to Napoleon, my marketing team would be pretty hype with creative thrill.

#TopCharacterChoice
#SelfishWant

 

[UserKev]

I agree, the arcade DK is extremely important, and would certainly qualify as retro, and DK Jr. is cool and all... but if they really wanted to do Sr. right, they'd double down on the 8-bit references with a playable Cranky Kong (Brawl did mention how he's the original arcade DK after all, so Smash has created precedent for it).

View attachment 154932

And arguably, DK Jr. is the DK we already have playable, it would just add to the confusion. Though, I don't think any of it is likely since Sakurai already shared Arcade DK as the memory for Donkey Kong's Ultimate Tweet. Seems like it'd be enough for representing the arcade series.

No, dude. Cranky Kong is a solid DK newcomer. If he's "Retro" then all of the original 12 are technically retro. Retro characters are potentially forgotten with niche followings while Cranky Kong is a (In your face) DK character. Cranky Kong has a certain characterization that sets him apart from actual retro characters while his moveset would be heavily inspired from his heyday.