Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[zeldasmash]

In all honesty, Bayonetta would stay. Corrin i think should have waited for the next game. Wolf would have definitely been a better choice for now (and Snake, but Konami will forever hold him hostage with a nuke the head).

 

[DJ3DS]

Reps! Reps everywhere!

It's. Not. About. Reps.

You don't have to be a competitive player to like the gameplay, which is what makes you come back. Characters are good to play as, but it's the gameplay that matters. It's the gameplay that makes us play every Smash game a butt ton. It's the reason I've put thousands of hours in overall to Smash combined.

Do I understand being sad that your character didn't make it? Yes. Being salty? Grow up. You don't have to buy it, Bayonetta and Corrin are NOT objectively bad choices. Both are unique characters that provide something new to the gameplay, which is what longtime players look for.

At first I also thought, "Another Fire Emblem character?", but then soon after fell in love with Corrin, and now may even debate on maining him/her. The moveset looks sweet.

There are characters that people wanted to who didn't get it, but the fact of the matter is that we've gotten a hell of a lot of content already. A hell of a lot. Way more DLC AND fanservice than any other game with DLC in my experience. Be happy that he man and his team stuck around to give us a lot of content.

One last thing...the only one responsible for getting your hopes up...is you.

EDIT:Are we seriously complaining that we " have" to buy Corrin for a complete game? Come on now. You don't have to buy ANYTHING.

Sakurai is only entitled to your money if you want his product. If you buy the product that's on you. On the flip side of the coin, Sakurai isn't just catering to fans of like 3 characters that were requested. He's catering to fans of Smash Bros. Just because he didn't add K.Rool or Isaac or Snake or Wolf doesn't mean he isn't doing it for the fans or something.

On one hand, I want to disagree with you heartily. The characters DO matter, to me and I'd imagine to a lot of people. As an easy example I like Injustice: Gods Among Us substantially more than I like Mortal Kombat despite the two running on identical engines because I get more excited to play as Batman than I do playing what is to me a faceless ninja. Same applies to this game. It's an over saturation of characters I don't care about. Same thing happened to me with Mario Kart 8.

We may have got way more content but that doesn't mean way more fanservice. Cloud and the Cloud vs Link graphic? That stuff is fanservice. Corrin is an advert for an upcoming game Sakurai is a fan of and couldn't be further from fanservice.

I think the only thing I agree with you on is people shouldn't buy it if they don't like it. But this is from someone who doesn't e.g. have friends round to play or use his console for any kind of tournament purpose and doesn't need to cater for other players tastes.

 

[Cr0n]

If we count alts then:

Pokemon:
Fire Emblem: (female Corrin)
Mario:

Well damn. And no, I'm not counting Wario, Yoshi or the DK duo, that'd be dumb.

EDIT:

I'm curious now. How many would of preferred the Wolf and Paper Mario leak to have been the true outcome over Corrin and Bayo?

Wolf would be cool, but he is basically a clone. I could see paper mario having a very unique moveset, but I am honestly okay with how things turned out. I am a bit biased because I generally prefer sword-users in smash, but Corrin in the House looks unique and super fun. I can't wait for February.

 

[Arcadenik]

FE has more characters than Pokemon now.

The niche, nearly dead and mostly Japan-exclusive franchise is apparently more deserving of characters than one of, if not the most popular video games of all time.

This screams of bias, and Bayo's just kind of salt in the wound that Corrin opened.

Pokemon and Fire Emblem have the same amount of playable characters in SSB4.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Elaborate pls. This metaphor is pretty intresting to me. Do you mean you were already happy enough with the DLC or something else?

I was fine with having the FE characters that we did have, but I was sort of hoping for a big Ballot character like K.Rool or Wolf to cap off Smash DLC...and got another serving of Fire Emblem with a side of Bayonetta. It's not bad, really. It's just underwhelming.

It's like ordering a meat lover's pizza and getting cheese pizza instead; you're kind of OK with it, it's still pizza...but it's not what you had asked for. Not a kick to the balls, but it's confusing and dissapointing. Except unlike with the pizza, we can't exactly say that we got the wrong pizza and have it replaced; we're stuck with what we've got. It's enjoyable, but it's not the same as what you were hoping for.

Pokemon and Fire Emblem have the same amount of playable characters in SSB4.

So it's more like this;
(Female)(Male)

Counting Fem!Robin and Fem!Corrin as a Koopaling situation, where they share the same slot and moveset, but are different characters.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

Quite frankly the people who are saying "lol the salt is delicious" and "grow up" are honestly more annoying and childish than the so called salty people.

At least I can empathizes with resentful people. Smug, self righteous people who think themselves morally superior, are the ones who should **** off, imo.

Not to mention that it gives off the implication that we dare shan't question anything Lord Sakurai-san gives.

There's also a ton of passive-aggressiveness which irks me tbh. I think we all just need to let people feel what they feel. Both reactions are justified and valid based on your circumstances. Neither is the right or wrong way to go about it.

In fact I'd say it's a good thing that people feel so strongly one way or another because it shows that we as a fanbase are diverse instead of a hungry hivemind eager to accept/reject whatever is thrown at us.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm curious now. How many would of preferred the Wolf and Paper Mario leak to have been the true outcome over Corrin and Bayo?

Do I even need to say anything?


EDIT: Paper Mario's art was fugly though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If we count alts then:

Pokemon:
Fire Emblem: (female Corrin)
Mario:

Well damn. And no, I'm not counting Wario, Yoshi or the DK duo, that'd be dumb.

EDIT:

I'm curious now. How many would of preferred the Wolf and Paper Mario leak to have been the true outcome over Corrin and Bayo?

Wolf and Paper Mario!? Give me that please. I at least have great memories of playing Super Paper Mario, and The Thousand Year Door.

Also, this:

 

[Snackss]

Ever expecting K. Rool was naive. The internet is an echo chamber. Just because reddit loves Rare and Banjo and K. Rool dominate their character polls, and smashboards has always had a K. Rool following, doesn't mean he's a popular character. He's probably not nearly the ballot powerhouse people imagine him to be. The overwhelming majority of people who voted on the ballot probably do not post on smashboards and have no interest in "King K Rool or whatever." The minority is simply vocal enough that they convinced themselves, for YEARS, that K Rool was a shoe-in, when it was never the case. You can talk about Donkey Kong's legacy all you want and how the DKCR games are the best platformers in years (which even as someone who never even liked DKC, they are), but that's Donkey Kong and Diddy with a bit of Cranky and a tiny bit of Dixie. K Rool doesn't get to ride on that legacy merely because he was the original villain when he doesn't even have a significant following outside of groups of Smash Bros. players. Smash Bros. is for everyone, not merely a means to cater to the whims of people who play Smash Bros., let alone a relatively small group within the Smash Bros. playerbase.

tl;dr People who post on the internet greatly overestimate the power of their voice when it comes to picking characters.

 

[The Novice Sword]

Ever expecting K. Rool was naive. The internet is an echo chamber. Just because reddit loves Rare and Banjo and K. Rool dominate their character polls, and smashboards has always had a K. Rool following, doesn't mean he's a popular character. He's probably not nearly the ballot powerhouse people imagine him to be. The overwhelming majority of people who voted on the ballot probably do not post on smashboards and have no interest in "King K Rool or whatever." The minority is simply vocal enough that they convinced themselves, for YEARS, that K Rool was a shoe-in, when it was never the case. You can talk about Donkey Kong's legacy all you want and how the DKCR games are the best platformers in years (which even as someone who never even liked DKC, they are), but that's Donkey Kong and Diddy with a bit of Cranky and a tiny bit of Dixie. K Rool doesn't get to ride on that legacy merely because he was the original villain when he doesn't even have a significant following outside of groups of Smash Bros. players. Smash Bros. is for everyone, not merely a means to cater to the whims of people who play Smash Bros., let alone a relatively small group within the Smash Bros. playerbase.

tl;dr People who post on the internet greatly overestimate the power of their voice when it comes to picking characters.

I kind of agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but I would have worded it a little less...harshly.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Even though he's made some questionable decisions, I still have to applaud Sakurai for all of the effort he put into this game. The gameplay in this Smash is way better than in Brawl, and I actually like how Sakurai transformed Smash from a Nintendo All-stars game into an All-stars game in general. I mean, what other game allows you to pit Mario against Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta? That's incredible when you really think about it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If we count alts then:

Pokemon:
Fire Emblem: (female Corrin)
Mario:

Well damn. And no, I'm not counting Wario, Yoshi or the DK duo, that'd be dumb.

EDIT:

I'm curious now. How many would of preferred the Wolf and Paper Mario leak to have been the true outcome over Corrin and Bayo?

Forgetting to include Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong are rather big sins when you consider their involvement in the Mario series. Wario is the main antagonist of Super Mario Land 2, while Yoshi played a big role in Super Mario World. And as for Donkey Kong, his ancestor was Mario's first rival before Bowser entered the scene, and this rivalry even continued with the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series.

Anyway, in regards to that Wolf and Paper Mario leak, I would've preferred Wolf over Paper Mario. Corrin, I'm indifferent with him, so I'm not too negative about his inclusion.

 

[Joseppo]

I come here after a while to see reactions of the Direct and, without taking into account if people are happy or not, I see a lot of hostility here between both parts. For me, this Direct was amazing. I do like Fire Emblem, and Corrin looks really unique and interesting (and I really like his/her model). As for Bayonetta, she was one of my most wanted shortly after I finished her games, but because it's been a while, she had fallen off a bit from my wishlist. I must say I'm overjoyed about her inclusion, and congratulations to @WhiteEaglePL , you got your most wanted and she looks awesome!

The thing I don't understand is the hostility against Sakurai and the development team. Maybe they didn't add the character you wanted, but they went out of their way to give us more, and we repay them with anger because it's not "what we wanted". Another thing is the hostility against the character. Just because the character got in, he/she doesn't deserve the hate, he/she didn't steal anyone's spot. I used to think that way with, for example, Ryu. I used to think "I want Phoenix Wright, so if they include Ryu, the chance of him getting in is lower, so I hate Ryu!" But then I realized that Ryu is not stopping anyone of getting in, and I tried the character: he was fun as hell, so I started liking him, and now he is, imo, one of the most fun characters in the game.

So my conclusion is this: we cannot be angry with a character or the development team because they didn't give us what we want; we should be thankful to them because they added extra content that they never had the responsability to do, and they did it anyways.

So, for my part, Thank you Sakurai, and thank you to all the people who worked for this to happen.

And thank you to all of you, members of Smashboards, to keep posting in this thread and making speculation much more interesting and better than it would've been if I didn't join this magnific website. Thanks.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I overall can't be too disappointed with the outcome, honestly, mostly due to outside factors and my pool of wanted characters correlating.

King K. Rool I always saw as in doubt after the Mii costume. Same for Inklings, regardless of what people argued. Though I will admit that anyone saying "OMG COSTUME INCREASES CHANCES" got on my nerves, but that's a fanbase for you. Snake I always saw as doubtful DLC due to Konami, if not impossible. Now that he skipped it, though, I can see the company's present infamy being a potential obstacle during this past year, if the team even tried to contact them. Won't be surprised if they didn't.

And, of course, my most wanted, Sylux. I never had an absurd amount of faith in it, and given that the Ballot was a popularity contest all along judging by Bayonetta my lack of faith was well justified. Never claiming it was extremely likely but saying it wasn't impossible. Then again, despite not succeeding, it's still a victory for me in the sense that the idea was spread both here and on other sites, and the fact that it will become much more popular by the time of the next Smash with it's confirmed future appearances gives me some peace in the matter.

And yes, elephant in the room, because at least one fan will bring it up in a pessimistic or devaluing tone(and if you are going to do that, don't bother replying to me, please): it'll have to compete with Ridley, sure, but there's no reason to believe they cannot coexist.

Bayonetta looks stylish and Corrin looks quite complex. Both look fun. Not my most wanted by a very long shot, but nothing I'll lose sleep over.

Fun times, speculating. Hope we can have some more in the next Smash.

 

[GreenKirby]

Ever expecting K. Rool was naive. The internet is an echo chamber. Just because reddit loves Rare and Banjo and K. Rool dominate their character polls, and smashboards has always had a K. Rool following, doesn't mean he's a popular character. He's probably not nearly the ballot powerhouse people imagine him to be. The overwhelming majority of people who voted on the ballot probably do not post on smashboards and have no interest in "King K Rool or whatever." The minority is simply vocal enough that they convinced themselves, for YEARS, that K Rool was a shoe-in, when it was never the case. You can talk about Donkey Kong's legacy all you want and how the DKCR games are the best platformers in years (which even as someone who never even liked DKC, they are), but that's Donkey Kong and Diddy with a bit of Cranky and a tiny bit of Dixie. K Rool doesn't get to ride on that legacy merely because he was the original villain when he doesn't even have a significant following outside of groups of Smash Bros. players. Smash Bros. is for everyone, not merely a means to cater to the whims of people who play Smash Bros., let alone a relatively small group within the Smash Bros. playerbase.

tl;dr People who post on the internet greatly overestimate the power of their voice when it comes to picking characters.

You say this but again Bayonetta is a MUCH smaller series than Donkey Kong with a much more niche to audience. To say that she beat K.Rool ( an old time favorite), a Splatoon character (new trend), or even Dante (Devil May Cry is a much more popular hack and slash franchises than Bayonetta) is laughable.

And again, I iterate: If she truly won the ballot, WHERE WAS THESE SUPPORTERS FOR HER SECOND GAME?

 

[Luig]

I still can't believe Bayonetta, a character I know nothing about, won the ballot....

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

You say this but again Bayonetta is a MUCH smaller series than Donkey Kong with a much more niche to audience. To say that she beat K.Rool ( an old time favorite), a Splatoon character (new trend), or even Dante (Devil May Cry is a much more popular hack and slash franchises than Bayonetta) is laughable.

And again, I iterate: If she truly won the ballot, WHERE WAS THESE SUPPORTERS FOR HER SECOND GAME?

Dammit, I was writing up a post and then you went and said everything I was going to say, but more consisely.

But yeah, Bayo makes no sense as a ballot winner unless something fishy went on.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Like I said, Fire Emblem has much of it's success due to Advance Wars doing well. If not for that, the games wouldn't even be localized, which would keep even more people from knowing about the series and getting it exposure.

The games were localized because of demand after Melee.

 

[Rockaphin]

The only character I'm extremely shocked to not see are the Inklings.

I had my doubts with King K. Rool since the costume. I didn't think Wolf would return after the Lucas, Roy, and Ryu update.

But I definitely didn't think we'd see another Fire Emblem DLC character nor did I think Bayonetta had much of a chance.

 

[GreenKirby]

Dammit, I was writing up a post and then you went and said everything I was going to say, but more consisely.

But yeah, Bayo makes no sense as a ballot winner unless something fishy went on.

Oh and there's another thing.

It takes a long time to make one character. So if Bayonetta was the ballot winner and she's looking a Feb release date, either the team worked REALLY hard nonstop (like they didn't even get to go home) since October to come up with an effective moveset, or she was planned MUCH earlier and they "justified" the ballot then.

So either the ballot didn't matter... or we have a serious case of workers' rights issues

 

[Snackss]

You say this but again Bayonetta is a MUCH smaller series than Donkey Kong with a much more niche to audience. To say that she beat K.Rool ( an old time favorite), a Splatoon character (new trend), or even Dante (Devil May Cry is a much more popular hack and slash franchises than Bayonetta) is laughable.

And again, I iterate: If she truly won the ballot, WHERE WAS THESE SUPPORTERS FOR HER SECOND GAME?

If Dante truly was top 5, then he probably wasn't a feasible character. They also specified top 5 in Europe: Perhaps she has a particularly large following in Europe. As for Splatoon, perhaps they didn't see it as the right time, maybe something was going on within Nintendo, obviously we don't know. The presentation said she was top 5 in Europe; she was simply the most feasible, interesting, and relevant character they could come up with from whoever the top 5 are. We don't know what that means, but to assume Sakurai deliberately decided, on his own, with no others factors, not to put characters in purely out of spite is ridiculous.

Also, the ballot was easy to vote on. Consider that quite a few people who voted on the ballot not only don't post on the internet, but don't even have a Wii U. But maybe they played Bayonetta on another system, or plan to buy the game and the Wii U eventually, and figure "sure, why not?" Obviously speculation, but you need to think outside of the Smashboards echo chamber.

Oh and there's another thing.

It takes a long time to make one character. So if Bayonetta was the ballot winner and she's looking a Feb release date, either the team worked REALLY hard nonstop (like they didn't even get to go home) since October to come up with an effective moveset, or she was planned MUCH earlier and they "justified" the ballot then.

So either the ballot didn't matter... or we have a serious case of workers' rights issues

Bayonetta only needed to be presentable in a controlled environment. For all we know, her rig turns into jelly when she crouches for too long, she crashes the game if she attacks Peach, or any other manner of horrifying bugs.

I don't know how the video game industry is in Japan today, but horrible hours certainly is an issue in the U.S. industry, so at least that's not out of the question.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh and there's another thing.

It takes a long time to make one character. So if Bayonetta was the ballot winner and she's looking a Feb release date, either the team worked REALLY hard nonstop (like they didn't even get to go home) since October to come up with an effective moveset, or she was planned MUCH earlier and they "justified" the ballot then.

So either the ballot didn't matter... or we have a serious case of workers' rights issues

I seem to think that it's more the former, if anything. Even if one were to vote for Wolf or K. Rool numerous times, it wouldn't matter in the end.

 

[pupNapoleon]

People who insult Sakurai on a personal level really need to grow up.

...this is extremely ironic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ever expecting K. Rool was naive. The internet is an echo chamber. Just because reddit loves Rare and Banjo and K. Rool dominate their character polls, and smashboards has always had a K. Rool following, doesn't mean he's a popular character. He's probably not nearly the ballot powerhouse people imagine him to be. The overwhelming majority of people who voted on the ballot probably do not post on smashboards and have no interest in "King K Rool or whatever." The minority is simply vocal enough that they convinced themselves, for YEARS, that K Rool was a shoe-in, when it was never the case. You can talk about Donkey Kong's legacy all you want and how the DKCR games are the best platformers in years (which even as someone who never even liked DKC, they are), but that's Donkey Kong and Diddy with a bit of Cranky and a tiny bit of Dixie. K Rool doesn't get to ride on that legacy merely because he was the original villain when he doesn't even have a significant following outside of groups of Smash Bros. players. Smash Bros. is for everyone, not merely a means to cater to the whims of people who play Smash Bros., let alone a relatively small group within the Smash Bros. playerbase.

tl;dr People who post on the internet greatly overestimate the power of their voice when it comes to picking characters.

Man, Sakurai showed more love to the Kremlings and K.Rool than any Nintendo developer of the last decade outside of PAON. Who I wonder is even active anymore... DK Barrel Blast didn't do so greatly despite Jungle Climber being AMAZING. Before I go vent off my rage, let me just express how much I like Jungle Climber. I ****ing love the game, awesome music, loved the fast pacing and difficulty of the game, K.Rool is in it, Xananab was an awesome new character and it had a reasonable well written story for a DK game. If I would like to dub any game into an 'official DKC4', it's gotta be Jungle Climber. PAON, if you guys are out there, I love you and want you to take control of the series again!

Now back to the Smash part, we had all the right to be expecting King K.Rool during this whole ride. As soon as the Kremlings popped up in Smash Run, this should've been obvious. Kremlings have been gone for a long time, so yes logically we would assume that when we see smoke, there would be a fire. You seem to forget that after the confirmation of Ridley not being playable, King K.Rool was the biggest request for a newcomer, easily. Only character more popular than him was Mewtwo, but that's the reason Mewtwo was the first DLC character after all. As for newcomers, only Mega Man and Ridley beat him as prospects. Can you name another character with an official Campain for getting into the game? I doubt you can. Higher ups at Playtonic (former Rare), Retro Studios and Nintendo took notice of this campain. That shouldn't be taken so lightly.

Next came the ballot, a chance for the fans to vote their favorite character into the game. And again, I have huge doubts that Bayonetta could be voted higher than a character from a beloved series that sold 10.000.000 copies in the same year it was produced (1994). Donkey Kong Country is huge, hence the succes of Returns and Tropical Freeze. Am pretty sure that even Returns for 3DS did better than both Uprising and Awakening. There's a VERY GOOD REASONS why everyone expected a new character from Donkey Kong Country before and during speculation. Up untill now, Donkey Kong Country is the biggest series of importance with so little representation in Smash Bros., it just sicks out, and the smell of the hole it created in the roster is vile as ****.

Now who's fault is it for believing we actually have a good chance seeing the most requested character making it in? Ours? Sure is!

 

[Serell]

I do not believe for a minute that Bayonetta was the #1 most requested character worldwide. Could I believe it was Inkling, even though I believe they shouldn't be in the game? Sure. But there's no way Bayonetta could win. No one under 13 would vote for her, because they wouldn't know her, because no one under 13 would be allowed to play her games. Parents don't pay attention to ratings, but they do take a glance at the cover art of the game, and are much more against sexual references than violence. I just cannot and absolutely refuse to admit that Bayonetta was #1 worldwide.

In the top 10? Sure. Sakurai obviously did not pick the #1. At first, I thought I didn't want Sakurai to pick the most popular character; I wanted him to look through the most popular and pick the one he thought was the most interesting, so I could be surprised. Now, I wish I wasn't surprised...

 

[n8han11]

While Wolf's absence still hurts, I will admit Corrin looks really cool. He can turn into a freaking dragon! He's better than Roy'll ever be! Hell, give Corrin a couple years and he'll be as beloved as Roy ever was. I'll guarantee that much so.

 

[Snackss]

I do not believe for a minute that Bayonetta was the #1 most requested character worldwide. Could I believe it was Inkling, even though I believe they shouldn't be in the game? Sure. But there's no way Bayonetta could win. No one under 13 would vote for her, because they wouldn't know her, because no one under 13 would be allowed to play her games. Parents don't pay attention to ratings, but they do take a glance at the cover art of the game, and are much more against sexual references than violence. I just cannot and absolutely refuse to admit that Bayonetta was #1 worldwide.

In the top 10? Sure. Sakurai obviously did not pick the #1. At first, I thought I didn't want Sakurai to pick the most popular character; I wanted him to look through the most popular and pick the one he thought was the most interesting, so I could be surprised. Now, I wish I wasn't surprised...

The Direct explicitly stated she was #1 in Europe, top 5 in U.S., and didn't specify worldwide or in Japan.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm confused:

Why is it better to post your salt over the saltiness of others, versus the people who actually feel affected posting salty responses in the first place?

We all knew the results would upset many people on these boards. It's fantastic that we are all so emotionally invested in this game. I find the bickering about the butt hurt posts to be pretty intolerable walls of texts; they are absolutely not more valid than people being upset by the results. It's not even been a day! Jesus, let the boards morn. A wall of grammatically correct text ******** about someone else's ******** does not make you more correct!

...on the flipside, my rant about your complaining about the whining... is completely founded

 

[Diddy Kong]

Forgetting to include Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong are rather big sins when you consider their involvement in the Mario series. Wario is the main antagonist of Super Mario Land 2, while Yoshi played a big role in Super Mario World. And as for Donkey Kong, his ancestor was Mario's first rival before Bowser entered the scene, and this rivalry even continued with the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series.

No the fact you are trying to trivialize Donkey Kong Country's horrible treatment with this notion of yours is a sin. The biggest of all.

Really now, I can't think of anything worse than this age-old 'DONKEY KONG IS A MARIO CHARCTER' bull**** to rub in the salt of the series' extreme neglection by Sakurai. I ask you to be considerate.

 

[Snackss]

Man, Sakurai showed more love to the Kremlings and K.Rool than any Nintendo developer of the last decade outside of PAON.

I would hope so, that's part of what Smash Bros. is for.

Now back to the Smash part, we had all the right to be expecting King K.Rool during this whole ride. As soon as the Kremlings popped up in Smash Run, this should've been obvious. Kremlings have been gone for a long time, so yes logically we would assume that when we see smoke, there would be a fire. You seem to forget that after the confirmation of Ridley not being playable, King K.Rool was the biggest request for a newcomer, easily. Only character more popular than him was Mewtwo, but that's the reason Mewtwo was the first DLC character after all. As for newcomers, only Mega Man and Ridley beat him as prospects. Can you name another character with an official Campain for getting into the game? I doubt you can. Higher ups at Playtonic (former Rare), Retro Studios and Nintendo took notice of this campain. That shouldn't be taken so lightly.

This is still taking place within internet circles, though. Yes, I know we got Kid Icarus enemies in Brawl. But trying to take obvious patterns seriously repeatedly is just going to lead to heartbreak. Ask any Half-Life fan who still believes a 3rd game is ever going to happen.
What is there to quantitatively prove that K. Rool was the most popular newcomer? I don't understand how he would have been more popular than Mega Man.

Next came the ballot, a chance for the fans to vote their favorite character into the game. And again, I have huge doubts that Bayonetta could be voted higher than a character from a beloved series that sold 10.000.000 copies in the same year it was produced (1994). Donkey Kong Country is huge, hence the succes of Returns and Tropical Freeze. Am pretty sure that even Returns for 3DS did better than both Uprising and Awakening. There's a VERY GOOD REASONS why everyone expected a new character from Donkey Kong Country before and during speculation. Up untill now, Donkey Kong Country is the biggest series of importance with so little representation in Smash Bros., it just sicks out, and the smell of the hole it created in the roster is vile as ****.

Now who's fault is it for believing we actually have a good chance seeing the most requested character making it in? Ours? Sure is!

1994 was 20 years ago, dude. And you're still operating on the "more sales = better chance." That's not how Sakurai works, that's never how Sakurai has worked.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Ever expecting K. Rool was naive. The internet is an echo chamber. Just because reddit loves Rare and Banjo and K. Rool dominate their character polls, and smashboards has always had a K. Rool following, doesn't mean he's a popular character. He's probably not nearly the ballot powerhouse people imagine him to be. The overwhelming majority of people who voted on the ballot probably do not post on smashboards and have no interest in "King K Rool or whatever." The minority is simply vocal enough that they convinced themselves, for YEARS, that K Rool was a shoe-in, when it was never the case. You can talk about Donkey Kong's legacy all you want and how the DKCR games are the best platformers in years (which even as someone who never even liked DKC, they are), but that's Donkey Kong and Diddy with a bit of Cranky and a tiny bit of Dixie. K Rool doesn't get to ride on that legacy merely because he was the original villain when he doesn't even have a significant following outside of groups of Smash Bros. players. Smash Bros. is for everyone, not merely a means to cater to the whims of people who play Smash Bros., let alone a relatively small group within the Smash Bros. playerbase.

tl;dr People who post on the internet greatly overestimate the power of their voice when it comes to picking characters.

Are you seriously trying to convince us that the mainstream gives a damn about Fire Emblem or Bayonetta? Those fans are the actual vocal minorities and the relatively small group of people on the internet that you accuse DK fans of being. The Bayonetta series and the Fire Emblem series exist in an echo chamber of commercial success, there is no legit way either of those series won any part of the Ballot without meddling from tumblr or 4chan or Reddit. They are both niche series, and people need to stop trying to convince everyone they have any sort of presence in the mainstream fanbase, which are 90% of Smash fans. It's statistically impossible unless Sakurai just flat out ignored certain series. The Nintendo newcomer should have been anything else than a Fire Emblem fighter, there is no justifying it again and again, it's pretty pathetic now. Fire Emblem fans are a "relatively small group of fans" as displayed by the series commercial indication

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have a theory with how people took advantage of the ballot.

I think the very moment the ballot said that can submit "any video-game character" to the ballot brought a massive amount of people to vote for third-parties in contrast of Nintendo newcomers. If any casual was given an opportunity to vote any video game character, they would likely go nuts to vote for "impossible" 3rd parties so they can see their dream come true. Thus we have the very reasons Cloud and Bayonetta got in and why we have a few people not understanding why people would rather take the opportunity to vote for third parties rather than Nintendo characters.

 

[Snackss]

Are you seriously trying to convince us that the mainstream gives a damn about Fire Emblem or Bayonetta? Those fans are the actual vocal minorities and the relatively small group of people on the internet that you accuse DK fans of being. The Bayonetta series and the Fire Emblem series exist in an echo chamber of commercial success, there is no legit way either of those series won any part of the Ballot without meddling from tumblr or 4chan or Reddit. They are both niche series, and people need to stop trying to convince everyone they have any sort of presence in the mainstream fanbase, which are 90% of Smash fans. It's statistically impossible unless Sakurai just flat out ignored certain series. The Nintendo newcomer should have been anything else than a Fire Emblem fighter, there is no justifying it again and again, it's pretty pathetic now. Fire Emblem fans are a "relatively small group of fans" as displayed by the series commercial indication

Who said anything about Fire Emblem? Fates is apparently pretty popular in Japan, but I assume Corrin is mainly promotion and Sakurai's own interest in what could be done with the character. However, Fire Emblem has been tied in with Smash Bros. since Melee. People take an interest in Fire Emblem characters even if only for their part in Smash Bros., regardless of how niche Fire Emblem itself is. Sakurai's process was not "I better add a Nintendo newcomer," it almost assuredly involved "This character would be neat," as I'm pretty sure he has explicitly stated this as being one of his criteria for a character. Who gets added is based on an arbitrary process, not determined by "slots" or "representation" or sales or anything.

Japanese action games are pretty "niche," sure. I'm still not seeing how a villain from a SNES game isn't niche either.

I have a theory with how people took advantage of the ballot.

I think the very moment the ballot said that can submit "any video-game character" to the ballot brought a massive amount of people to vote for third-parties in contrast of Nintendo newcomers. If any casual was given an opportunity to vote any video game character, they would likely go nuts to vote for "impossible" 3rd parties so they can see their dream come true. Thus we have the very reasons Cloud and Bayonetta got in and why we have a few people not understanding why people would rather take the opportunity to vote for third parties rather than Nintendo characters.

That's what I'm saying. The ballot was to give everyone and anyone a say, not as a means for Smash Bros. fans to brute force in additional Nintendo characters.

 

[BKupa666]

Saw this on Twitter last night and find it to have been one of the biggest constants, with this game especially.

Spoiler

May as well get in one last token post in a speculation thread before I take my leave from this community, barring something paradigm-shifting. I encourage anyone who wants a mostly laid-back (once this Direct blows over, anyhow), DK-flavored place to hang out to check out the K. Rool social group. PM me or any other member to ask for an invite.

 

[Burruni]

Who said anything about Fire Emblem? Fates is apparently pretty popular in Japan, but I assume Corrin is mainly promotion and Sakurai's own interest in what could be done with the character. However, Fire Emblem has been tied in with Smash Bros. since Melee. People take an interest in Fire Emblem characters even if only for their part in Smash Bros., regardless of how niche Fire Emblem itself is. Sakurai's process was not "I better add a Nintendo newcomer," it almost assuredly involved "This character would be neat," as I'm pretty sure he has explicitly stated this as being one of his criteria for a character.

Japanese action games are pretty "niche," sure. I'm still not seeing how a villain from a SNES game isn't niche either.



That's what I'm saying. The ballot was to give everyone and anyone a say, not as a means for Smash Bros. fans to brute force in additional Nintendo characters.

K. Rool isn't just a villain of the SNES era.
He was fairly consistently used from SNES to some of the later years of the Wii.
He's missed out the final boss role of 3 DK games. Two of then are the returns games, for which he has been almost rabidally requested.
K. Rool has been in high demand since Brawl, and even moreso with the massive push coming in Smash 4.
DK as a series, though largely weighted in the SNES, is still a series that brought more success than even .
A lot of gripe you'll see for Fire Emblem characters specifically is that, for a series niche enough to almost die, the fact we went from two, planned third for Brawl to 6 in Smash 4 is too much expansion at once for a series at its size.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, if people wanna vent their frustrations, they should.

Does it change the fact that what is done is done? Nope. All they are doing is yelling at the void. But sometimes, that's what we need to do; vent at something. This doesn't make the unhappy justified, but it also doesn't mean some of the happy should run around and tell the unhappy to "grow up" or "get over it".

Am I unhappy? Of course. Not gonna lie; I wanted a few characters that I feel are likely never going to be added. And while I understand how how Sakurai works and how much devotion he put into this, that doesn't mean I have to be happy with this.

So, what will I do? Simple; I won't buy the remaining DLC, and the reason is simple. If you complain about something, but still buy it anyway, not only are you being redundant and voiding your argument, but they get your money. It's like the scene from "Straight Outta Compton" where people are smashing Dre's CDs, but Dre is watching this and comments that he doesn't care what they think; they bought those CDs, so he got his money out of them.

I'm obviously not gonna make any difference, and more likely, the DLC will do exceptionally well. If you are happy with this and want to support it; do it. I'm glad you are excited for this. But I'm not.

Well... there's Smash NX to look forward to now.

 

[GreenKirby]

And people are still ignoring the obvious:

It's not just Donkey Kong fans who were ignored

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dark Pit is gonna be one of my secondaries now. If I gotta play as a salt-infused character, I'll pick the one with the least development time spend on. This way, I won't feel robbed of something I wanted instead. I also guess the edginess suits my dissapointment, personality and levels of sodium in my blood.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

And people are still ignoring the obvious:

It's not just Donkey Kong fans who were ignored

Hell, DK fans are better off than the Metroid fans in this instance. They at least have two distinct characters to their name. All we have is Samus with and without Power Armor. :/

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And people are still ignoring the obvious:

It's not just Donkey Kong fans who were ignored

Wolf would like to have a say in the matter himself when you consider that Star Fox Zero is on its way. But I guess the game's release is just too far away for it to even be referenced in Smash 4.