Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Schnee117]

DHD is a retro character added for the sake of being retro, doesn't count

Also a first party character.

 

[Gimmick]

To be fair, if Duck Hunt Dog/Duck can make it, a duo long past it's initial relevancy, then Banjo-Kazooie have a chance.

Duck Hunt is a first party and very iconic. Plus he was apart of the base roster.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Stop. Banjo Kazooie hasn't been relevant in years.

Relevancy doesn't matter and Rayman is not nearly as iconic or popular as people make him out to be. So what if the series still gets new titles, they sell insignificant amounts and have little impact on anything, and never really have. Rayman Legends was released on six platforms and barely managed 2.5 million sold, while Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie released on one platform and eclipsed that number

Plus, folks keep ignoring the fact no one cares about Rayman in Japan, which really kills his chances

 

[TheBesss]

DHD is a retro character added for the sake of being retro, doesn't count

A N64-esque Banjo-Kazooie would not be considered retro?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A N64-esque Banjo-Kazooie would not be considered retro?

Sakurai has said third parties need to be special. Nothing special about 2 good games and then getting loathed and dying

 

[mymerlincat]

Relevancy doesn't matter and Rayman is not nearly as iconic or popular as people make him out to be. So what if the series still gets new titles, they sell insignificant amounts and have little impact on anything, and never really have. Rayman Legends was released on six platforms and barely managed 2.5 million sold, while Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie released on one platform and eclipsed that number

Where did I mention Rayman?

 

[DevaAshera]

I'm calling it right now. Cloud, Wolf, and a grass type Pokemon.

I'm calling Cloud, Wolf, and a Newcomer from a Series not included as DLC (Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Mother, Street Fighter, and Final Fantasy).
I'm leaning towards Inklings, personally.

Before any Banjo fans complain about the relevancy argument, Sakurai DID say it matters. 'But Mega Man!' is still getting games, 10 was 2010 iirc and we got SFXMM and Xover, those are still there and keep him relevant to gaming

Indeed he did. I'm betting that Sakurai's view of Relevancy was 'Within the Last 3-5 Years' and MegaMan did have his last big game with MM10 in 2010 like you said, and since development of Smash Bros. 4 started in March 2012, he was still relevant enough, having only not being used in a new game for 2 years, so he was still plenty relevant, whereas, of course, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Cloud are all still being used in new games (Lost World, Racing Transformed, Boom, Ghostly Adventures, Street Fighter IVs, SFIV, Vs Series, Project x Zone 1/2, Dissidia Final Fantasy Arcade, FF Explorers, FFVII Remake).

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

You're right, however, relevancy isn't an issue:

Out this year, and a Summer best-seller.

I'd be inclined to agree if there weren't 27 (I think) other games on their, if it was a Banjo collection then fair enough but it isn't

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

I'm calling Cloud, Wolf, and a Newcomer from a Series not included as DLC (Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Mother, Street Fighter, and Final Fantasy).
I'm leaning towards Inklings, personally.

Indeed he did. I'm betting that Sakurai's view of Relevancy was 'Within the Last 3-5 Years' and MegaMan did have his last big game with MM10 in 2010 like you said, and since development of Smash Bros. 4 started in March 2012, he was still relevant enough, having only not being used in a new game for 2 years, so he was still plenty relevant, whereas, of course, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Cloud are all still being used in new games (Lost World, Racing Transformed, Boom, Ghostly Adventures, Street Fighter IVs, SFIV, Vs Series, Project x Zone 1/2, Dissidia Final Fantasy Arcade, FF Explorers, FFVII Remake).

Yeah, but Cloud wasn't added because he was relevant, Sakurai implies he was "fulfilling an impossible request", meaning he knew Cloud was highly requested for years

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I really don't get why fans of third-parties that lack recent appearances try to use retro characters as an excuse.

You're right, however, relevancy isn't an issue:

Out this year, and a Summer best-seller.

Ugh, why did they have to use Banjo's new design? The old one is much better...

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah, but Cloud wasn't added because he was relevant, Sakurai implies he was "fulfilling an impossible request", meaning he knew Cloud was highly requested for years

Relevancy isn't the deciding factor, but it is a factor, according to Sakurai's view on 3rd Parties.
Of course being possible, heavily popular, and FFVII having a big impact on gaming were the main reasons.

I really don't get why fans of third-parties that lack recent appearances try to use retro characters as an excuse.

Mostly because they want to believe the character they want has a chance.

I honestly did the same thing, essentially, with Cloud, citing his Nintendo appearances with the two Kingdom Hearts titles on GBA/DS, the two Theatrhythm games on 3DS, and FF Explorers and Sora with the 4 Kingdom Hearts games on GBA, DS, and 3DS.

Ugh, why did they have to use Banjo's new design? The old one is much better...

I think Rare is in denial about it looking good..they said they tried to emulate the 'blocky-ness' of Banjo & Kazooie's in-game N64 appearances..but they went overboard..

 

[TheBesss]

Sakurai has said third parties need to be special. Nothing special about 2 good games and then getting loathed and dying

It was very special for the N64 era, as is evident by the nostalgic fans on this board. Banjo's inclusion would be a commemoration of the golden era of 3D platformrs during the N64 era, a touchstone for Nintendo fans to celebrate and cherish.
God bless us, everyone.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I'm calling it right now. Cloud, Wolf, and a grass type Pokemon.

Sceptile in Smash would be amazing, as he's currently my #3 most wanted. Although, I still think he's unlikely

 

[mymerlincat]

Some people have the worst arguments for why characters should be included. Look at every character currently in the game. Think about why they are there. Now think about the reason why your character should be in there. Think about if it actually makes as much sense as the rest of the group.

 

[FalKoopa]

Before any Banjo fans complain about the relevancy argument, Sakurai DID say it matters. 'But Mega Man!' is still getting games, 10 was 2010 iirc and we got SFXMM and Xover, those are still there and keep him relevant to gaming

Banjo-Kazooie are relevant by proxy. (Yooka-Laylee)

The fact that the kickstarter was funded in barely 37 minutes means that people do want their Banjo fix and will gobble up anything close enough to Banjo.

Yeah, he didn't have a good game in years and is on life-support, I think we can reasonably assume that Demand > Relevance. Or why else was Lucas brought back?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Banjo-Kazooie are relevant by proxy. (Yooka-Laylee)

The fact that the kickstarter was funded in barely 37 minutes means that people do want their Banjo fix and will gobble up anything close enough to Banjo.

Yeah, he didn't have a good game in years and is on life-support, I think we can reasonably assume that Demand > Relevance. Or why else was Lucas brought back?

To be fair, Lucas was a vet. But yeah, I would consider Rayman more iconic than Banjo & Kazooie overall. The difference is very small though. Keep in mind the Rayman series has more games, its own cartoon related to it, more merchandise. It has an overall impact on the world in comparison.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

You're right, however, relevancy isn't an issue:

Out this year, and a Summer best-seller.

Yeeeesshhh. That Nuts & Bolts design is still as off putting as ever.

Still not as horrifying as Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man.

 

[Dinoman96]

At this point, I'm not expecting anything nearly as earth shattering in the presentation as much as Cloud. Like most people I'm just expecting Wolf and Inkling.

 

[Ura]

Well, so much for my post yesterday being my last time posting here til post-Tuesday's Direct lol.

Since we're talking about what we expect, here's what I think might happen.

Fighters
Cloud
Banjo
K. Rool
Crash

Stages
Midgar
Spiral Mountain
N' Sanity Island
Poke Floats
Rainbow Cruise

Mii Costumes
Chun Li (Brawler)
M. Bison (Brawler)
Chocobo (Brawler)
Tidus (Swordfighter)
Black Mage (Gunner)
Gruntilda (Swordfighter)
Mumbo Jumbo (Gunner)
Crunch Bandicoot (Brawler)
Cortex (Gunner)
Dixie (Brawler)
Rayman (Brawler)

Modes & Extras
3DS Exclusive 1-P Mode
Adventure Mode for Wii U
Palutena's Guidance for reaming Fighters
Music from previous games added for free

I actually expect Wolf to be released sometime around the release of SF Zero. Maybe there will be a nice little teaser for Wolf (like him laughing at the end of the Presentation as I mentioned before) in Tuesday's Direct that would lead him to being confirmed in a future SF Zero focused Direct.

 

[Troykv]

I feel this day so long... and probably will happen the same tomorrow, the Direct is coming soon, but I feel the wait so long.

My expectation right now are the least possible (probably something like Inkling newcomer-wise, and everything else is other content, maybe a cool stage)... But I'm still with some hope in something that actually hypes me...

 

[Burruni]

So.

I'mma wrap up my thoughts on the last few things. (edit: since I was absent the past few days)

1) I still hold firm we're not seeing any new 3rd Party content outside Squeenix mii costumes. M-A-Y-B-E a costume or two from SEGA/Bamco/Capcom. What we've seen as the biggest common factor between ?
It isn't popularity/requests in the Smash community and especially not having huge Nintendo games, ESPECIALLY when was close to happening in Melee, according to the head of SEGA at the time.

It's impact on gamingc coupled with inherent iconicism. And that they take a lot of effort to create. The fact that Cloud is all the staff showed amongst a gap of 5 MONTHS WITHOUT ANYTHING ABOUT CHARACTERS makes this seem all the more true, for the latter point.
We're at the slim pickings on who is on par of these titans. A fair chunk of them owned by Konami, no less.

"But nothing says other 3rd Party characters HAVE to be on that level." BUT WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE CONTRARY! cements iconicism and impact over any other argument for a 3rd Party if you ask me.

2) basically has no reason not to be in the game. "He wouldn't be hype because he's expected." WE WERE HYPED FOR DESPITE KNOWING HE WAS COMING 6 MONTHS PRIOR. WE WERE HYPED FOR DESPITE BEING IN THE SAME RELATIVE POSITION AS WOLF. WE GOT HYPED FOR AND DESPITE THEM BEING LEAKED!!! There's practically nothing in his way but Sakurai... who wanted Wolf in for Melee and squeezed him in at the end of Brawl's development.

3) When it comes for 1st Party Newcomers, K. Rool followed by Inklings stand the best for fairly obvious reasons. Beyond that duo, Bandana Dee and Isaac hold their hopes and by even slimmer bits Dixie, Paper Mario, or Captain Toad. Going further down the ladder than that just seems too dim at this point for me.

4) Calling Isaac generic is laughable when Smash Flash 2 has shown how differentiated he can be right in a Smash environment. It'd be the same as saying Banjo-Kazooie would play just like .

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be inclined to agree if there weren't 27 (I think) other games on their, if it was a Banjo collection then fair enough but it isn't

I don't see how that makes any difference.

You're free to view it as a Banjo collection + more if you like, especially considering how much Rare self-references in their games.

Banjo being there is part of the experience. Hence his position on the box.

Look at it this way, if the Banjo games weren't in, people would have ******* hard, and it probably would have flopped. The fact that it's in accounts to why it did so well.

Other, more critically acclaimed games like Goldeneye are missing, but it's largely deemed by fans as inconsequential enough to still merit the purchase.

Keep in mind btw, that Goldeneye was Halo before Halo was Halo.

Ugh, why did they have to use Banjo's new design? The old one is much better...

Agreed.

Here's to hoping Sakurai does Banjo justice by designing him after his classic N64 CG renders.

Sakurai has said third parties need to be special. Nothing special about 2 good games and then getting loathed and dying

Your opinions are so wrong and blinded it hurts. Dear God woman!

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

There was a possible leak on 4chan. Here is the selection screen:

There were other images leaked as well, such as two more stages, Wolf in battle, and Adventure Mode and song lists for the new stages. They look pretty legit, but I leave it you you to check the rest out

 

[mymerlincat]

Yeah, no. I don't think they're going to leave the section screen looking like that (unless maybe more dlc in the remaining 3 spots?)

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

There was a possible leak on 4chan. Here is the selection screen:

There were other images leaked as well, such as two more stages, Wolf in battle, and Adventure Mode and song lists for the new stages. They look pretty legit, but I leave it you you to check the rest out

I'd be down with Paper Mario, he's in my sig for a reason, he looks pretty good since he's so simple and I don't recognize the render from memory although I'd have to double check

Although I think Wolf looks off, specifically his shading which looks really dark in some areas, that pose is pretty epic though

I'm going with fake on this one

Yeah, no. I don't think they're going to leave the section screen looking like that (unless maybe more dlc in the remaining 3 spots?)

That'd go along well with the whole '10 DLC characters' thing I've been saying this whole time

 

[Megadoomer]

I find it hard to believe leaks that are just still images, especially still images of the character select screen. Even video evidence can be questionable, if ArtsyOmni and the recent Ravio "leak" are any indication.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I find it hard to believe leaks that are just still images, especially still images of the character select screen. Even video evidence can be questionable, if ArtsyOmni and the recent Ravio "leak" are any indication.

Ravio leak??

 

[Deleted member]

There was a possible leak on 4chan. Here is the selection screen:

There were other images leaked as well, such as two more stages, Wolf in battle, and Adventure Mode and song lists for the new stages. They look pretty legit, but I leave it you you to check the rest out

Link the thread bro. I couldn't find it in the catalog.

4chan is really keen at debunking fakes.

 

[mymerlincat]

Also Duck Hunt has been changed to Duck Hunt Duo. Fake.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

There was a possible leak on 4chan. Here is the selection screen:

There were other images leaked as well, such as two more stages, Wolf in battle, and Adventure Mode and song lists for the new stages. They look pretty legit, but I leave it you you to check the rest out

.... I want a update that puts everyone in their proper place on this screen, that's really moving up higher with every new character

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Predictions predictions...

Well, the data says we're getting at least 2 characters and one stage. I doubt that stage is just going to be, "this stage people wanted!"

That stage is gonna be paired with somebody. It'll either be a 3rd party or a newcomer.

There's a lot of different ways to look at it. However, I'm convinced that Tuesday is gonna be just like E3, at which we got all the content after the presentation. It's just before Christmas. We're going to get everything after the broadcast imo.

So that would be Cloud/Midgar, 2 other characters, and one of those characters will give us a stage. Don't ask why I'm thinking this way, but a character from a series already present...doesn't seem like they'd get a stage. Like Wolf for example. Why would he get a stage?

K.Rool COULD get a stage. But again, DK has content already. In that case, it would probably be some 3rd party or a newcomer series. That could be Snake (Shadow Moses), the Inklings (Inkopolis), some other 3rd party/stage combo.

That's really all I can see happening. Depends on how long the presentation is. We'd probably get a Final Fantasy Mii Fighter pack.

The question would THEN become, are the characters that have been chosen planned from the beginning? If they were, then that makes Inklings hard for me to believe.

I mean I'd like to think that they'd use the ballot, but even that isn't guaranteed. I'd love to see Banjo, but if they decided to pick AFTER the ballot was over, the negotiations/planning/programming/meetings would take MONTHS. As in, not enough time for a fully fledged reveal.

I think at max, we get 3 new characters in the reveal. At minimum 2. Characters like Pichu can be ruled out in my honest opinion.

 

[Burruni]

Also Duck Hunt has been changed to Duck Hunt Duo. Fake.

In PAL, it's called Duck Hunt Duo.

Edit: In NA and Asia, it's just Duck Hunt.

I have no idea why.

 

[KokiriKory]

Here's the imgur library

http://imgur.com/a/0qPA4

 

[FalKoopa]

There was a possible leak on 4chan. Here is the selection screen:

There were other images leaked as well, such as two more stages, Wolf in battle, and Adventure Mode and song lists for the new stages. They look pretty legit, but I leave it you you to check the rest out

Paper Mario's hammer looks wrong to me.

Fake until proven, at any rate.

 

[Naoshi]

Your opinions are so wrong and blinded it hurts. Dear God woman!

I don't understand why your replies are so so needlessly rude. But whatevs.

 

[Deleted member]

Predictions predictions...

Well, the data says we're getting at least 2 characters and one stage. I doubt that stage is just going to be, "this stage people wanted!"

That stage is gonna be paired with somebody. It'll either be a 3rd party or a newcomer.

There's a lot of different ways to look at it. However, I'm convinced that Tuesday is gonna be just like E3, at which we got all the content after the presentation. It's just before Christmas. We're going to get everything after the broadcast imo.

So that would be Cloud/Midgar, 2 other characters, and one of those characters will give us a stage. Don't ask why I'm thinking this way, but a character from a series already present...doesn't seem like they'd get a stage. Like Wolf for example. Why would he get a stage?

K.Rool COULD get a stage. But again, DK has content already. In that case, it would probably be some 3rd party or a newcomer series. That could be Snake (Shadow Moses), the Inklings (Inkopolis), some other 3rd party/stage combo.

That's really all I can see happening. Depends on how long the presentation is. We'd probably get a Final Fantasy Mii Fighter pack.

The question would THEN become, are the characters that have been chosen planned from the beginning? If they were, then that makes Inklings hard for me to believe.

I mean I'd like to think that they'd use the ballot, but even that isn't guaranteed. I'd love to see Banjo, but if they decided to pick AFTER the ballot was over, the negotiations/planning/programming/meetings would take MONTHS. As in, not enough time for a fully fledged reveal.

I think at max, we get 3 new characters in the reveal. At minimum 2. Characters like Pichu can be ruled out in my honest opinion.

My thoughts exactly.

Though, I'm not too sure negotiations would take more than a few weeks. Especially with how modern travel and the internet help business.

I've worked with international companies before, and contracts and agreements are usually settled in a matter of days, maybe a couple weeks, depending.

Also, nothing saying we'd get a full fledged reveal, could be like Mewtwo, but who knows.

Also, why would they wait forvtge ballot to end before deciding? After all, they ARE suggestions.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Here's the imgur library

http://imgur.com/a/0qPA4

Ah-ha, ha. ha. ha.

That's a insta-doubt right there

 

[KokiriKory]

Paper mario stage from 3DS, and presumably xenoblade chronicles x stage

I kind of maybe buy it, but time will tell.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Sakurai has said third parties need to be special. Nothing special about 2 good games and then getting loathed and dying

Yeah well, I'd say Banjo-Kazooie are as special as third parties can get. Their cult following is one of the strongest out there and there are multiple sources that prove they're some of the most requested characters for Smash Bros.
So yeah, they're ****ing special trust me.

 

[Burruni]

Paper mario stage from 3DS, and presumably xenoblade chronicles x stage

I kind of maybe buy it, but time will tell.

That is, in fact, Primordia. The first of the 5 major regions of Xenoblade X, at the bottom right.

Edit: PAPER MARIO LOOKS SO WRONG