Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[WaddleKing]

What do u even mean by the pokemon having anime designs in melee? Is there even a diffrence?

I recall Misty using her anime design and the Team Rocket Meowth having his guitar from Meowth's Party.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

People treat you like you're ******** because you're not looking at things from both sides...you're basing your ideals mostly on fan rules and stipluations... 'charizard reps squir/ivy' lolwut...forget the fact that charizard is one of the most popular pokemon in existence and can be argued to be more popular than even pikachu...

hooboy here comes another infraction because i'm boiling over.

charizard was part of pokemon trainer in brawl. in brawl, pokemon trainer was the character, he just had three separate movesets and a common stamina system that made you rotate into each moveset. THEY WERE NOT SEPARATE CHARACTERS BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT EXIST SEPARATELY. because pt wasn't gonna make the cut in smash 4, they saved what they could of him in charizard. ivy and squirts were the price charizard paid to get into smash 4.

Your claims are extraordinarily close-minded...'krool is the waluigi of DK because he hasn't made an appearance in a while'

but it's not wrong. k.rool doesn't make an appearance in any recent dk game outside of being a sideshow element. he doesn't make an appearance in smash outside of a mii costume. dude got sidelined.

Oh, yeah, I'd have to agree..I don't think anyone would surprise us as much as Cloud has. The only characters I could see being that surprising would be a 1st or 2nd Party from Sony or Microsoft..and I'm pretty sure that one is near impossible (except for, maybe, Banjo-Kazooie).
I just meant someone a bit more surprising then we think are the 'likely' characters.

banjo's sole link is that 'oh hey plz use banjo in smash 4 that'd be cool'. megaman got that treatment and offer in brawl, and snake got that treatment and offer in smash 4(from kojima, not konami, so snake is pretty well boned). nevermind that banjo will leave a seriously foul taste in a lot of people because the last game of his anyone has to go on was a colossal flop. plus, his 'genre' is already represented in smash by sonic(2d/3d platformer). there's no reason to think sakurai's gonna double-rep a genre when it comes to third party 'cause he hasn't yet, and he's had four chances to do so.

More people expected it then you think..not to mention that Sakurai straight up said that Roy got in due to how much demand there was for him to return. I figured he would return in some fashion, either as an Alternate Costume for Marth or as his own Character. Pichu doesn't have that Fan Demand that Sakurai straight up said is an important factor for DLC.

but he is a melee vet, and fans are pining hard for melee. sakurai can take that interpretation and run to the bank with it. remember the year-long ridley 'tease'?

You realize that your reasoning here makes little sense. Unlike Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur have unique movesets. Charizard was chosen due to being the most popular of the trio, but that doesn't mean he would be the only one. If a Pokémon Veteran was going to be DLC after Mewtwo, one of them is much more likely then a clone of Pikachu that was never very popular, even though I like Pichu more then the other two.

char was a part of the pt character in brawl. pt the character returns in a simplified form in charizard. pichu's return makes sense over bringing back another facet of a character.

Roy didn't get Luigified. Roy's moveset stayed the same, it was Marth that changed in Brawl. Pikachu hasn't changed and it seems likely that Pichu wouldn't change.

boy who's makin assumptions now. you're right though, pichu has no other moves that it could possibly use that pikachu doesn't. not one. nope, none cross my mind. and the a-attacks can't possibly be reanimated either. not at all.

Knuckles is one of the top choices for a second Sonic representative, along with Dr. Eggman, Tails, and Shadow.

and he only gets in via a fan mod because sonic's already satisfied rep-wise.

Lyn has been highly requested for a Fire Emblem Representative and is also the first Female Lord in the series and would be the first Smash Bros. representative to use a Katana.

another animu swordsperson. WOOHOO we soulcalibur now!

Fire Emblem is 'overrated/overrepped/animu garbage'? Careful, your bias is showing.

the designs of the fe characters are boring, uninspired, and blend together so easily. i lost track of marth and lucina in a fight they were so similar not just in fighting style but in physical appearance. ike has always been a poor man's cloud, roy i really don't need to expand on, the only character that approaches something unique is robin.

(Not to mention its rather..dumb..to complain about 'anime' in a game created by Japanese developers considering that's the primary artstyle there..and, even then, its actually the incorrect term..Anime is Animation, like cartoons, Manga is comics..each artstyle is different and unique)

there's anime, and then there's animu. the difference being is every single fe character in the game is some dumb mary or gary sue 'gonna save the woooooorld' schmuck.

As for 'Down-B to Counter', that was included due to it being an element from the series combat.

and it got copy-pasted four times. fe really doesn't have anything else going for it than that, which is another reason why, again, fe characters probably work fine in whatever their home universe is, but are lame and weaksauce in smash.

They aren't mentioning much of anything on the announcement aside from 'Cloud and More' the Ballot is probably a part of that 'More'.

more also means vets, maybe returning stages. and given that time is running out for dlc as the team's going to break up and go their separate ways, odds are against anything radically new.

The Brawl Ballot got us Sonic, you can't pretend you didn't know that. It likely also got us Mega Man since I'm sure he was very popular on it as well and Sakurai knew that before going into Smash 4.

we got sonic because sega said yes, not because the ballot demanded him. brawl was ready to carry on without sonic right up until the very end.

You're quite the Negative Nancy, aren't you?

just one of my many charms.

Not really. If that was the case they honestly would have kept Cloud until the Broadcast and only announced the Smash Broadcast at the end of the Direct.

why? not everything is a secret with smash. sakurai probably wants to dedicate at least a few minutes to a tribute for iwata, since he didn't have the chance outside of twitter to speak on it. iwata was also a massive reason why smash even happened, so it's just due respect. add in the coverage of cloud's system and moves, as well as veteran announcements, any possible returning stages, and then a farewell from the staff, and that takes a healthy chunk of time.

I usually keep my expectations low, but even I can see that two veterans as DLC, even with one being Wolf, would be a bit of a letdown for the Final Smash Broadcast. The only way two vets as the last announcements would make sense would be if one were Snake..which I don't feel is that likely either.

anything at this point is gonna disappoint and piss off a world of people when tuesday hits. gonna have to rename the forums saltboards with all the qq that'll erupt.

Yes, it will also be a send off, but Sakurai never does one of these without some sort of juicy info. The last three we've had announced the return of Sheik & Zero Suit Samus along with the announcement of Greninja as a newcomer, then the one after that announced not only Mewtwo as DLC but DLC in and of itself, then we had the announcement of Roy as a Veteran and Ryu as a Newcomer (which was meant to be a huge surprise but was spoiled months in advance).

there's nothing left. it's done. why have it fizzle out on some random day when you, still in control of the broadcast and team, can say 'we've done all we can in the game and feel it's finished to satisfaction. thanks for playing!'? that's the way to end something, not just 'oh btw check back in a couple months for some download. bye!'. plus, your pattern screams that pichu's coming back in itself. roy(melee vet), lucas(brawl vet), ryu. pichu(melee vet), wolf(brawl vet), cloud.

Yes, lets reign in speculation, otherwise someone might be dumb and speculate on impossible characters like Cloud Strife & Ryu from Street Fighter.

were you here for the nonsense that happened with the text at the direct's end? that **** was unbearable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not sure whether the whole "Need to originate from a VG." applies to Nintendo characters though, as R.O.B. technically first started as an accessory then as a VG character with cameos like in Pikmin, F-Zero GX and finally a playable character in Mario Kart DS. Not to mention some of the Pokemon trophies in Melee have their anime designs and Red's trophy in Smash 4 mentions Ash and co.

Just posting this because i've seen people say a character MUST originate from a vg game even if it's a Nintendo character despite us not having solid evidence for the latter.

That rule was made for 3rd parties anyway.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I recall Misty using her anime design and the Team Rocket Meowth having his guitar from Meowth's Party.

Yeah, just checked. Misty design is in fact diffrent. And speaking of which, Lucario and Mewtwo speaking are also from the anime

 

[Deleted member]

On Pichu, if the PMDT turned down the idea of adding him with the clone engine on the premise of hin being "too divisive" and PM is basically Brawl turned Melee, what makes you think he has ANY chance of being in Sm4sh?

Especially before the likes of Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, the mons, and hell, even YL.

I'm a 90's guy. Just about. Rayman is at least 3x more recognizable/iconic than Banjo the way I see it.

How so?

How is he 3x more recognizable in your eyes?

I know it's anecdotal, but I never even heard of Rayman till the Rabbids on the Wii, and I'm a Nintendo kid through and through. From Duck Hunt, Top Gun, Final Fight, and SMB on the NES, to Xenoblade X on the WiiU.

Banjo on the other hand is like a cornerstone of my childhood, I still remember:

Plus, how can Rayman be more iconic than Banjo when Banjo has a cult following in Japan, while Rayman is a literal "who" for them?

And like I've said before... Indies are in thier own category.

Yeah, that category being NEVER EVER.

I still don't understand how people can rationalize the idea of an Indie nobody standing alongside Nintendo and gaming icons.

The only one with a remote chance is Shantae, and even that is one hell of a leap.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, just checked. Misty design is in fact diffrent. And speaking of which, Lucario and Mewtwo speaking are also from the anime

It makes sense. Pokemon has vast popularity due to the anime itself. Jigglypuff's popularity stemmed from it, Charizard was helped heavily by it, as was Mewtwo's movies. Lucario legitimately first appeared in a movie(again, this matters little as the video game origin is a rule designed for 3rd party characters), etc.

There's a reason Ash is mentioned in Pokemon Trainer's Smash 4 trophy. It's because he's far more known than Red himself due to the anime's immense exposure to the world. Meanwhile Red himself appeared in only same Pokemon games and people didn't know his official name till G/S/C/HG/SS. That's the issue with a nameable protagonist. Also, it wasn't made obvious like Link or Ness either. In addition, Brawl just referred to him as Pokemon Trainer, having 3 playable Pokemon under him.

Also, for the record, Sakurai considers Brawl to have 39 characters. Sharing a slot didn't matter to him, they still counted as their own entity. Charizard came back solely because he's the most important part of PT's team overall. He's the most popular, iconic, had an easy new Final Smash even. The other 2 are nowhere on the same level. Charizard does not represent PT regardless, because he doesn't do anything PT does. He's just the leftover choice of 3 characters, that's all.

 

[Deleted member]

k.rool and banjo aren't making it because they haven't been relevant for the past decade. k.rool is DK's waluigi and a running joke, and is there someone that's honestly going to defend the travesty that was nuts & bolts, that soulless collectathon?

if popularity mattered, we wouldn't have rob. or g&w. or wii fit.

Popularity matters in a ballot bruv.

Literally, like only you and the 10 other guys who ACTUALLY like Pichu bothered to vote for him.

His overall support is literally so small, Sakurai probably didn't even notice him. Lol

 

[Lady Byakugan]

People who want Pichu are just as useless and unnecassary as him

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People who want Pichu are just as useless and unnecassary as him

Stop. Pichu will always be a worthless addition, but not everyone who wants Pichu os 'useless'. Hell, I even saw someone who made Pichu a more interesting character, taking damage because of how powerful the attacks are, that has great potential and is very creative

 

[TTTTTsd]

Popularity matters in a ballot bruv.

Literally, like only you and the 10 other guys who ACTUALLY like Pichu bothered to vote for him.

His overall support is literally so small, Sakurai probably didn't even notice him. Lol

I'm just going to make a point of the strange situation of calling K. Rool "sidelined" when Pichu is a character I see talked about even less and is additionally just an evolutionary step in his source material and a running joke in Smash, let alone his own games.

Not quite the same as being the Bowser to Donkey Kong's Mario in three of the five main series games and the 3D one on N64 as well.

Pichu does make a nice little trophy though, cute little thing~. I consider him the least likely veteran to return period especially considering the outcry for Wolf is...roughly triple at minimum (likely along the lines of quintuple or more to be realistic) the size of the outcry for Pichu's return.

 

[WaddleKing]

It makes sense. Pokemon has vast popularity due to the anime itself. Jigglypuff's popularity stemmed from it, Charizard was helped heavily by it, as was Mewtwo's movies. Lucario legitimately first appeared in a movie(again, this matters little as the video game origin is a rule designed for 3rd party characters), etc.

There's a reason Ash is mentioned in Pokemon Trainer's Smash 4 trophy. It's because he's far more known than Red himself due to the anime's immense exposure to the world. Meanwhile Red himself appeared in only same Pokemon games and people didn't know his official name till G/S/C/HG/SS. That's the issue with a nameable protagonist. Also, it wasn't made obvious like Link or Ness either. In addition, Brawl just referred to him as Pokemon Trainer, having 3 playable Pokemon under him.

Also, for the record, Sakurai considers Brawl to have 39 characters. Sharing a slot didn't matter to him, they still counted as their own entity. Charizard came back solely because he's the most important part of PT's team overall. He's the most popular, iconic, had an easy new Final Smash even. The other 2 are nowhere on the same level. Charizard does not represent PT regardless, because he doesn't do anything PT does. He's just the leftover choice of 3 characters, that's all.

Not to mention Pikachu became Pokemon's mascot thanks to his anime role i believe, there are rumors claiming Clefairy was planned for the mascot but i haven't found evidence ( Though it seems likely considering how Clefairy is a sort of mascot like Pokemon even being in the slot machines ). So if it weren't for the anime Pikachu would likely not be the mascot nor likely be in Smash and we'd have someone like Charizard or Mewtwo added first instead.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Stop. Pichu will always be a worthless addition, but not everyone who wants Pichu os 'useless'. Hell, I even saw someone who made Pichu a more interesting character, taking damage because of how powerful the attacks are, that has great potential and is very creative

Him being a "worthless addition" is an opinion, though. That said, yeah, he has neat potential. And he'd benefit from rage. I do feel like the damage-style gimmick was done with Lucario instead and improved heavily.

Not to mention Pikachu became Pokemon's mascot thanks to his anime role i believe, there are rumors claiming Clefairy was planned for the mascot but i haven't found evidence ( Though it seems likely considering how Clefairy is a sort of mascot like Pokemon even being in the slot machines ). So if it weren't for the anime Pikachu would likely not be the mascot nor likely be in Smash and we'd have someone like Charizard or Mewtwo added first instead.

Actually, he was popular well before the anime, which is why he became Ash's partner. I do not know when he became the mascot though.

 

[Aetheri]

Popularity matters in a ballot bruv.

Literally, like only you and the 10 other guys who ACTUALLY like Pichu bothered to vote for him.

His overall support is literally so small, Sakurai probably didn't even notice him. Lol

To be fair Pichu (and all veterans to be honest) has a lot of support in Japan especially...

People who want Pichu are just as useless and unnecassary as him

That's not called for...people are allowed to want a character there's no need for insults...

 

[Zerp]

People who want Pichu are just as useless and unnecassary as him

I like Pichu ;-;
Why is that a bad thing, I don't get it.

 

[keys752]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Just posting who I think is coming (hopefully):

Wolf, Ice Climbers, King K Rool, Inklings, Banjo. If not all of them, at least 2 of them. *fingers crossed for an ice climber miracle*

 

[G-Guy]

To put it all in a nutshell, it's simply amazing how unpredictable Sakurai has been throughout Smash4's Hype-train, starting off with a bang called Megaman.

He then simply continued to pull things out of his sleeves I personally never would have thought were possible. Wii Fit trainer? Greninja? Robin? Duck Hunt?

Sure, there have been somewhat obvious choices (Villager, Little mac, for example)

But once he cracked up the DLC-dial, it's been a wild ride, once again.

Roy came back with odds highly stacked against him (like there already being a "Roy")

Mewtwo was someone lost when Brawl came, so people didn't expect him at all to make a comback and lead the era of DLC.

Ryu and Cloud are pretty much the epitome of smash hype and nobody saw both of them coming (didn't the Royucas leak happen)



So, all in all, Sakurai is sure to shock us on Tuesday. I wouldn't rule out ANYONE if I were you. The Guy is a freakin' magician and you all know it

 

[TTTTTsd]

Stop. Pichu will always be a worthless addition, but not everyone who wants Pichu os 'useless'. Hell, I even saw someone who made Pichu a more interesting character, taking damage because of how powerful the attacks are, that has great potential and is very creative

That'd be neat but it just doesn't work in concept on Pichu. Sounds more like Raichu to me honestly. Pichu's SUPPOSED to be weak, he represents BABY Pokemon, why would he be good (outside of fan made rebalances or what have you, because reasons.)

Retooling or reanimating his moveset to make him different from Pikachu also wouldn't make much sense, isn't he supposed to be in the same evolutionary line where they do basically the same thing except Pikachu does it better, including being able to use a Light Ball?

I just, I got nothing. I can't think of a single good reason for him to come back, as funny a joke as he was.

 

[WaddleKing]

Actually, he was popular well before the anime, which is why he became Ash's partner. I do not know when he became the mascot though.

He was? Odd, because i've looked at his Red & Green and Blue artwork and sprites and he looks pretty different than the ones from Yellow and on minus this one

I could see why he'd be a somewhat popular with appearing in the manual case but considering he only appears in Viridian Forest with an encounter rate of 5% i can't imagine him being very popular back then until the Pokemon Company/Game Freak pushed for him.

 

[Deleted member]

To put it all in a nutshell, it's simply amazing how unpredictable Sakurai has been throughout Smash4's Hype-train, starting off with a bang called Megaman.

He then simply continued to pull things out of his sleeves I personally never would have thought were possible. Wii Fit trainer? Greninja? Robin? Duck Hunt?

Sure, there have been somewhat obvious choices (Villager, Little mac, for example)

But once he cracked up the DLC-dial, it's been a wild ride, once again.

Roy came back with odds highly stacked against him (like there already being a "Roy")

Mewtwo was someone lost when Brawl came, so people didn't expect him at all to make a comback and lead the era of DLC.

Ryu and Cloud are pretty much the epitome of smash hype and nobody saw both of them coming (didn't the Royucas leak happen)



So, all in all, Sakurai is sure to shock us on Tuesday. I wouldn't rule out ANYONE if I were you. The Guy is a freakin' magician and you all know it

But Megaman was NOT unpredictable at all. He was on practically everyone's prediction rosters on here many months before E3.

Sonic was predicted too once Snake was revealed.

Hell, here's a breakdown of the characters I managed to call right in my Smash speculation:

Brawl:
>Ike
>Wario
>Wolf
>Sonic
>Diddy
>Toon Link

Smash 4:
>Mega Man
>Palutena
>Greninja (I was saying Gen 6 Pokemon, because Gen 6 hadn't even been announced)
>Lucina
>not Chrom (I didn't say Robin, but others here did, and I liked the idea - I personally wanted Lyn, felt Lucina was more likely, and thought either Anna or Robin would be fine)
>Little Mac
>Shulk

I even called Ryu, well before Smash E3, but I won't count it since I didn't stick to my guns.

Granted, I did get BTFO this time around, especially with the likes of Pac-Man. But my Brawl streak was pretty much on point barring Lyn, which I was wrong on.

And if you don't believe me, feel free to.lurk through my earliest posts on here.

So yeah, might as well make my call:

It's 3 characters, 2 stages. Cloud and Midgar counted. Meaning one is an existing franchise, and one is a new franchise.


:4wolf:
:4banjo:

Calling it now.

I wanna say it COULD be :4krool: instead of Wolf, but my hunch leans toward Wolf, and I'm gonna trust my instinct on this.

Alternatives to Banjo could be :4snake:, :4inkling: or :4isaac:, but all the signs are pointing to Banjo, it's literally Sonic/Megaman a third time.

"I can feel it in my bones, but don't be so rash, that Bear and Bird are definitely gonna be in Smash."

 

[TheBesss]

Rayman is definitely more iconic than banjo. also, all Rayman's main games (Rayman, Rayman 2, Rayman, 3, Origins and Legends) have appeared on Nintendo systems. Nuts and Bolts was Xbox exclusive unfortunately.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nuts and Bolts was Xbox exclusive unfortunately.

shhh! We try to forget that game exists!

 

[Deleted member]

Rayman is definitely more iconic than banjo. also, all Rayman's main games (Rayman, Rayman 2, Rayman, 3, Origins and Legends) have appeared on Nintendo systems. Nuts and Bolts was Xbox exclusive unfortunately.

How?

You gotta say how. Elaborate your point. Don't just state your opinion as fact with no evidence or examples or even an explanation and expect to be taken seriously. This is NOT how this works dude.

 

[DevaAshera]

Wasn't saying otherwise. But he still means "characters", not franchises. That's what people need to keep in mind.

Also, to be fair, he actually said "no Manga" characters and laughed at the idea of Cartoon characters. He didn't actually say originate in a video game, but he most likely meant that overall. It's technically a fan rule, but it's a pretty safe one at this point.

That's true, I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, I agree, Sakurai probably did mean only Game Characters are considered since manga and cartoons (which I should point out that Western cartoons are also called Anime in Japan and people in Japan also refer to Manga as 'Comic Books' so that would leave only live action and I don't see Nintendo going through the hassle of licensing real-life likenesses)

Not sure whether the whole "Need to originate from a VG." applies to Nintendo characters though, as R.O.B. technically first started as an accessory then as a VG character with cameos like in Pikmin, F-Zero GX and finally a playable character in Mario Kart DS. Not to mention some of the Pokemon trophies in Melee have their anime designs and Red's trophy in Smash 4 mentions Ash and co.

Just posting this because i've seen people say a character MUST originate from a vg game even if it's a Nintendo character despite us not having solid evidence for the latter.

Those characters still originated in Video Games, per-se, even ROB who was a Video Game accessory.
As for Misty & Professor Oak using their Anime designs, those characters still originated in Pokémon Red & Blue and they also used their Anime designs in Pokémon Yellow. Regardless, references and trophies are a little different, since I bet that if Sora was included, he'd come with trophies of Donald & Goofy in their KH Designs or at least mention them in his trophy.

hooboy here comes another infraction because i'm boiling over.

Sounds like a personal problem.

charizard was part of pokemon trainer in brawl. in brawl, pokemon trainer was the character, he just had three separate movesets and a common stamina system that made you rotate into each moveset. THEY WERE NOT SEPARATE CHARACTERS BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT EXIST SEPARATELY. because pt wasn't gonna make the cut in smash 4, they saved what they could of him in charizard. ivy and squirts were the price charizard paid to get into smash 4.

And never was it said that Squirtle & Ivysaur couldn't re-appear. After all, Pichu was cut from Melee and didn't even appear to have been considered to return in Brawl, unlike Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy, all three of whom appeared in the game's code while Pichu did not.

but it's not wrong. k.rool doesn't make an appearance in any recent dk game outside of being a sideshow element. he doesn't make an appearance in smash outside of a mii costume. dude got sidelined.

For the moment, yeah, but (though I know you'll discredit it) the Smash Ballot could change that. I don't see K. Rool as overly likely, but there's no reason to believe that he'll be outright left out either..its not like Pichu has really been important in years either. The last time was HeartGold/SoulSilver..but that was technically Spiky-Eared Pichu rather then the Smash Bros. Pichu.

banjo's sole link is that 'oh hey plz use banjo in smash 4 that'd be cool'. megaman got that treatment and offer in brawl, and snake got that treatment and offer in smash 4(from kojima, not konami, so snake is pretty well boned). nevermind that banjo will leave a seriously foul taste in a lot of people because the last game of his anyone has to go on was a colossal flop. plus, his 'genre' is already represented in smash by sonic(2d/3d platformer). there's no reason to think sakurai's gonna double-rep a genre when it comes to third party 'cause he hasn't yet, and he's had four chances to do so.

The Mega Man franchise has done 2D and 3D Platformers as well..besides that, Sonic's general Genre is Platformers, same as Mega Man's..and though technically different, Roy & Mewtwo both come from RPGs, even if one is SRPG and one is Turn Based RPG, both are still RPGs.
Your reasoning is even worse then the 'has to be important to Nintendo' reasoning used prior to Cloud's announcement and depends entirely upon technicalities and coincidences.

but he is a melee vet, and fans are pining hard for melee. sakurai can take that interpretation and run to the bank with it. remember the year-long ridley 'tease'?

Fans are 'pining' hard for Melee's gameplay and the game itself. With exception to the Ice Climbers, every character that people have cared about from Super Smash Bros. Melee has already shown up in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS & Wii U.
The Ridley 'tease' wasn't so much of a tease as much as Ridley supporters taking it as a tease when it was really nothing (chances are Ridley's model just wasn't finalized yet).

char was a part of the pt character in brawl. pt the character returns in a simplified form in charizard. pichu's return makes sense over bringing back another facet of a character.

Not really. Pichu was literally a last minute addition in Melee purely because they had time for Clones and decided to make one off of Pikachu and giving Generation II a representative.
Squirtle & Ivysaur were purposefully planned from the get-go, given unique movesets, and could still work just as well as separate characters.
What your saying is acting like it would have made perfect sense to scrap Sheik & Zerosuit Samus because they were just 'facets' of Zelda & Samus in previous games.
Again though, I don't think any of the remaining Pokémon Veterans will be brought back, but if one was, it would probably be Squirtle considering it was the second most popular of the Pokémon Trainer trio.

boy who's makin assumptions now. you're right though, pichu has no other moves that it could possibly use that pikachu doesn't. not one. nope, none cross my mind. and the a-attacks can't possibly be reanimated either. not at all.

I never said that Pichu doesn't have other moves it could use, I'm saying that its not likely to get new moves considering that both Mewtwo & Roy stayed unchanged from a moveset perspective.
You're still making a lot more assumptions then anyone else though...and being rather rude and acting like an arse the whole time. Hopefully it will humble you when you're shown to be wrong.

and he only gets in via a fan mod because sonic's already satisfied rep-wise.

Not really relevant. I only replied on it originally because you brought it up.

another animu swordsperson. WOOHOO we soulcalibur now!

Again, your bias is showing.

the designs of the fe characters are boring, uninspired, and blend together so easily. i lost track of marth and lucina in a fight they were so similar not just in fighting style but in physical appearance. ike has always been a poor man's cloud, roy i really don't need to expand on, the only character that approaches something unique is robin.

Once again, your bias is showing.

there's anime, and then there's animu. the difference being is every single fe character in the game is some dumb mary or gary sue 'gonna save the woooooorld' schmuck.

Animu is a derogatory term for a character done in the manga-esque artstyle.
You also clearly know nothing of Fire Emblem and have likely never played even a single game in the series if you think that they're Gary/Mary Sues.
Also, once again, your bias is showing.

and it got copy-pasted four times. fe really doesn't have anything else going for it than that, which is another reason why, again, fe characters probably work fine in whatever their home universe is, but are lame and weaksauce in smash.

Considering that 3 of those 4 are clones, its kind of a 'no duh' and it still makes sense for the characters.
And, again, 'lame and weaksauce' in your opinion, and it appears to be quite the minority considering how popular the characters are.

more also means vets, maybe returning stages. and given that time is running out for dlc as the team's going to break up and go their separate ways, odds are against anything radically new.

Yeah, but I don't see both being Veterans unless one is Snake, whom I'm not expecting really, and I also very much doubt they'd go with someone as underwhelming as Pichu.
They've had more then enough time to start development on a Newcomer and they never said the team would disband after the Broadcast, they might stay together for a few more months to complete said Newcomer. Nowhere did anyone say that every character announced would be released after the Broadcast, so they could clearly make another Newcomer.

we got sonic because sega said yes, not because the ballot demanded him. brawl was ready to carry on without sonic right up until the very end.

Sakurai straight up said that Sonic was the most requested character through that ballot, it was after that that the team requested to use Sonic. Sega said 'No', changed their minds, Brawl got delayed to add in Sonic.

why? not everything is a secret with smash. sakurai probably wants to dedicate at least a few minutes to a tribute for iwata, since he didn't have the chance outside of twitter to speak on it. iwata was also a massive reason why smash even happened, so it's just due respect. add in the coverage of cloud's system and moves, as well as veteran announcements, any possible returning stages, and then a farewell from the staff, and that takes a healthy chunk of time.

As much of an impact Iwata had on Sakurai, Sakurai gave his 'good byes' via an interview where he discussed Iwata and what the man had meant to him. While he still might do a bit of a rememberance to Iwata, its probably not going to be an overly long segment..that would have been included in a Nintendo Direct.
Also, the announcement of a Newcomer and a Veteran would take the same amount of time essentially and it hasn't been said how long this Broadcast will be yet..it could even be an hour long, which is enough time to do a Rememberance, Cloud Overview, Veteran Announcement, Newcomer Announcement, Newcomer Overview, DLC Stages, Etc.

anything

at this point is gonna disappoint and piss off a world of people when tuesday hits. gonna have to rename the forums saltboards with all the qq that'll erupt.

Pichu would piss off a lot more people then any other character choice would.

there's nothing left. it's done. why have it fizzle out on some random day when you, still in control of the broadcast and team, can say 'we've done all we can in the game and feel it's finished to satisfaction. thanks for playing!'? that's the way to end something, not just 'oh btw check back in a couple months for some download. bye!'. plus, your pattern screams that pichu's coming back in itself. roy(melee vet), lucas(brawl vet), ryu. pichu(melee vet), wolf(brawl vet), cloud.

You're very likely to be wrong. Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu were all decided prior to the Ballot, Sakurai said the rest of the characters would all be 'Fan Service', likely meaning regarding the Ballot (some of the characters could have been decided prior to its End, considering it was mostly a Suggestion Box).
Still, they won't end it on something Underwhelming like Pichu.
Also worth pointing out, this 'pattern' was once again something only made up by the fans..its more likely then not a coincidence considering it went 'Melee, Brawl, Melee, Newcomer'

were you here for the nonsense that happened with the text at the direct's end? that **** was unbearable.

Then go ahead and cry about it while not realizing the Irony in how UNBEARABLE you are being.

Yeah, just checked. Misty design is in fact diffrent. And speaking of which, Lucario and Mewtwo speaking are also from the anime

Like I said, the Misty design used for the Melee trophy, while originating in the anime, still depicted a character from the Games and she also used that design in Pokémon Yellow.

As for Lucario & Mewtwo being based off their movie versions, its primarily because they were popular characters due to those as well and helped define them, not to mention it made them more different from the other Pokémon..they still originated as Game Characters though. Them using their Anime versions as their basis isn't too different from Cloud having his Advent Children design since the character himself was first from a game.

Rayman is definitely more iconic than banjo. also, all Rayman's main games (Rayman, Rayman 2, Rayman, 3, Origins and Legends) have appeared on Nintendo systems. Nuts and Bolts was Xbox exclusive unfortunately.

Sorry, I'd have to disagree that Rayman is more iconic then Banjo. The two Banjo-Kazooie games were seen as some of the best 3D Platformers of their time while Rayman, whom had good games, never reached the same level of acclaim..especially in Japan..and is less well known then Banjo-Kazooie games...as for all of his main games appearing on Nintendo, Ryu & Cloud show that's not very important.

While I still don't feel that Banjo-Kazooie are likely due to Microsoft owning them, that doesn't mean they're less iconic.

 

[WaddleKing]

Those characters still originated in Video Games, per-se, even ROB who was a Video Game accessory.
As for Misty & Professor Oak using their Anime designs, those characters still originated in Pokémon Red & Blue and they also used their Anime designs in Pokémon Yellow. Regardless, references and trophies are a little different, since I bet that if Sora was included, he'd come with trophies of Donald & Goofy in their KH Designs or at least mention them in his trophy.

Yeah i don't think they'd go as far as adding a non VG character as playable unless that character becomes a very major character in the games and such.
I was more so meaning: Character first appeared in a Nintendo anime adaption of the game series
Character later on appears in a number of the games
Character can't appear as a trophy because they first appeared in an anime
Smash is about representing Nintendo's history, i don't think it matter where the Nintendo character originated from as long as they made several appearances in the game series at least.

 

[Wiley]

Who do you think could be the most competitively viable options from this crazy pool of possibilities around here? This is an easy way to take something too defensively/seriously, but going in knowing anything can happen and being openminded, it's just an excercise in thought. (I wish I didn't feel like I should disclaimer a silly question that doesn't need to be answered in the first place, but flames are out these days and don't need to be. Many of us are anxious but that's no reason to lash)

A few examples

For instance K Rool sure he may be fun to have but that's not the Q. He could very well have some brutal HooHa but just as a fighter he's prone to suffer from the very true difficulty of a big body heavy. Can't rule anything from his neutral out but I'd assume he'd get plenty of trouble from top tier threats Sheik R&L Fox Pika Mario/L prob Metaknight and more as combo food. Love the struggle so I'd still play him but I don't see him winning evo without some seriously funky HooHa stuff, who knows.

Cloud honestly looks like he's going to face the same troubles other sword fighters have at the moment. But pre frame data I think he has a good chance at fighting for best swordsman slot. Though MK and Ike are proven so far to a fair degree. If Cloud's follow up game is as strong as Ike's then with the addition of a projectile and a little more speed he could be a contender.

Wolf
I don't know I don't care just add him and I'll play him. But ya... I'd assume he'd get a passive buff from rage being a burst damage character who controls mid range. If they kick up his speed a notch and we get a taste of what wolf would feel like in a game that has more follow up options or combos in general than Brawl then he could be a fun and dangerous threat. Just sucks my Fox is getting pretty good ;D


If competitive convo is not your thing, fear not just ignore this and have your fun.

 

[TheBesss]

Sorry, I'd have to disagree that Rayman is more iconic then Banjo. The two Banjo-Kazooie games were seen as some of the best 3D Platformers of their time while Rayman, whom had good games, never reached the same level of acclaim..

Rayman 2, and Rayman Legends were actually just as, if not more critically acclaimed than the first 2 Banjo games.

 

[RoseyBetch]

I honestly think Rayman and Banjo are both roughly on the same level of being "iconic." The difference is they both have different things to add. Rayman has recent games that are popular and a lot of older successful ones as well. Also he appeals to people who play other platforms, so he could potentially draw people into Smash who weren't there before. Banjo however has two really popular, successful games and he has a stronger history to Nintendo. They both have a lot of moveset potential and a lot of their own merits, but it just depends on what Sakurai wants to achieve with the DLC characters that would determine if it's neither of these two, one or the other, or even both.

 

[DevaAshera]

Rayman 2, and Rayman Legends were actually just as, if not more critically acclaimed than the first 2 Banjo games.

Acclaimed, maybe, but Banjo-Kazooie & Banjo-Tooie were successful then any single Rayman game, giving them more Pop Culture Popularity as well as Nostalgia for a vast majority of Nintendo 64 gamers.

You can like Rayman more then Banjo-Kazooie, you can like the games more, but I'm sorry, Banjo-Kazooie is more iconic and well known.

 

[mymerlincat]

Stop. Banjo Kazooie hasn't been relevant in years.

 

[APC99]

Rayman's rise to fame can be claimed as a B-list video game character in the PlayStation / PlayStation 2 era who's been revived with the Wii and Wii U. We don't talk about the Rabbid era. Rayman Origins was a huge third-party game for the Wii.

Banjo-Kazooie was a product of Nintendo and Rare's partnership in the 90's, to critical success. The franchise slowly died afterwards, with Xbox exclusivity bringing them down. Nuts and Bolts was not the game fans wanted, and the franchise stays dormant to this day.

Both are iconic, and are good ideas for Smash Bros, but I don't think either truly reaches the caliber of the current third-party line-up. Doesn't mean it can't happen, or that I don't want it, however.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I'm just on the edge of my seat wondering if it'll be the characters we've been predicting or surprise us immensely like Cloud did. Maybe completely predicted, maybe completely surprising, or perhaps a bit of both.

In reality, I'll be on the edge of mine, too, once we hit Tuesday. For now though, I'm just tying to "Hype Responsibily" as @PushDustIn once said in a SG article. As for surprise or predicted characters, I'm rolling with both.

:4Cloud:, :4Wolf:, and likely :4Inkling:.

Wolf has literally every single thing going for him and literally nothing holding him back. That's not even bias. As for my call on Inklings, I think we're getting another newcomer (As much as would like to see :4Snake: become a thing) and I just really think it'd be a 1st Party. Afterwards, I think we're getting a Mewtwo-esqe reveal of the three Ballot selections.

Damn. I've gotten too hyped again...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Acclaimed, maybe, but Banjo-Kazooie & Banjo-Tooie were successful then any single Rayman game, giving them more Pop Culture Popularity as well as Nostalgia for a vast majority of Nintendo 64 gamers.

You can like Rayman more then Banjo-Kazooie, you can like the games more, but I'm sorry, Banjo-Kazooie is more iconic and well known.

That maybe true but unlike Rayman, Banjo's series died off only to come back in 2008 with a game everyone hated. Rayman has always been a well received franchise and has had a fairly stable release schedule, there was a slight dip between 3 and origins but that doesn't compare to Banjo's giant absence

 

[DevaAshera]

Oh, I'm very much inclined to agree there. Banjo-Kazooie hasn't been relevant in years, hence why I said it was mostly due to Nostalgic N64 gamers that they are wanted (and I honestly see Phil Spencer partially wanting B-K in Smash Bros. to boost popularity so that they can try a new game..along with Spencer being a cool guy anyway, as far as it seems at least)

Compared to Sonic, MegaMan, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, and Snake though, yeah, I don't think Banjo-Kazooie nor Rayman have the 'big name status' that those five have, considering pretty much every Gamer recognizes them..it could be argued with B-K and Rayman as well, but I don't think either are as well known as any of the other 6 we've had thus far.

In reality, I'll be on the edge of mine, too, once we hit Tuesday. For now though, I'm just tying to "Hype Responsibily" as @PushDustIn once said in a SG article. As for surprise or predicted characters, I'm rolling with both.

:4Cloud:, :4Wolf:, and likely :4Inkling:.

Wolf has literally every single thing going for him and literally nothing holding him back. That's not even bias. As for my call on Inklings, I think we're getting another newcomer (As much as would like to see :4Snake: become a thing) and I just really think it'd be a 1st Party. Afterwards, I think we're getting a Mewtwo-esqe reveal of the three Ballot selections.

Damn. I've gotten too hyped again...

I agree as well. Wolf seems the most likely character to be announced considering the other big name Veterans, Mewtwo, Roy, and Lucas, all got in thus far (and I honestly believe demand for Wolf was higher).

That maybe true but unlike Rayman, Banjo's series died off only to come back in 2008 with a game everyone hated. Rayman has always been a well received franchise and has had a fairly stable release schedule, there was a slight dip between 3 and origins but that doesn't compare to Banjo's giant absence

This is true, but the same could be said of characters like Shantae, Sora from Kingdom Hearts, and many others.
Its mostly about Name Recognition, Impact on Gaming, and Popularity, it seems, though I'd of course not say its a 'rule'..just a running thing with the other 6 3rd party characters we've had in the series.

 

[mymerlincat]

I'm calling it right now. Cloud, Wolf, and a grass type Pokemon.

 

[Andyomon00]

Who do you think could be the most competitively viable options from this crazy pool of possibilities around here? This is an easy way to take something too defensively/seriously, but going in knowing anything can happen and being openminded, it's just an excercise in thought. (I wish I didn't feel like I should disclaimer a silly question that doesn't need to be answered in the first place, but flames are out these days and don't need to be. Many of us are anxious but that's no reason to lash)

A few examples

For instance K Rool sure he may be fun to have but that's not the Q. He could very well have some brutal HooHa but just as a fighter he's prone to suffer from the very true difficulty of a big body heavy. Can't rule anything from his neutral out but I'd assume he'd get plenty of trouble from top tier threats Sheik R&L Fox Pika Mario/L prob Metaknight and more as combo food. Love the struggle so I'd still play him but I don't see him winning evo without some seriously funky HooHa stuff, who knows.

Cloud honestly looks like he's going to face the same troubles other sword fighters have at the moment. But pre frame data I think he has a good chance at fighting for best swordsman slot. Though MK and Ike are proven so far to a fair degree. If Cloud's follow up game is as strong as Ike's then with the addition of a projectile and a little more speed he could be a contender.

Wolf
I don't know I don't care just add him and I'll play him. But ya... I'd assume he'd get a passive buff from rage being a burst damage character who controls mid range. If they kick up his speed a notch and we get a taste of what wolf would feel like in a game that has more follow up options or combos in general than Brawl then he could be a fun and dangerous threat. Just sucks my Fox is getting pretty good ;D


If competitive convo is not your thing, fear not just ignore this and have your fun.

I think Inkling could be very strong as a mid-to-long range fighter. I would imagine they would be light and kind of slow in their normal form (for context they have two forms, human and squid) but make up for it by having by having very strong projectiles. they would be good against most of the most of the mid tier (Roy,Ike,Pit, Etc.) and even against some high(er) tiers(Fox and MK). But they would against characters who completely shutout their projectiles or can apply a lot of presure such as Rosalina and Sheik. All in all they most likely be high mid tier or low-high high tier.

Moving on to Cloud, he could be a strong charcter given that he has a projectile and has at least two ways to kill you early off stage. But he will most likely shuffer against Shiek.

This is really the fun part of all this speculation for me, how these characters will fit in the competitive meta.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Before any Banjo fans complain about the relevancy argument, Sakurai DID say it matters. 'But Mega Man!' is still getting games, 10 was 2010 iirc and we got SFXMM and Xover, those are still there and keep him relevant to gaming

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I'm calling it right now. Cloud, Wolf, and a grass type Pokemon.

Honestly although it hasn't been talked about too much, Another Pokemon newcomer is very possible, the series is so massive and popular with so many candidates it makes no sense. I certainly won't be disappointed if we end up with Sceptile or something

 

[TheBesss]

Before any Banjo fans complain about the relevancy argument, Sakurai DID say it matters. 'But Mega Man!' is still getting games, 10 was 2010 iirc and we got SFXMM and Xover, those are still there and keep him relevant to gaming

To be fair, if Duck Hunt Dog/Duck can make it, a duo long past it's initial relevancy, then Banjo-Kazooie have a chance.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair, if Duck Hunt Dog/Duck can make it, a duo long past it's initial relevancy, then Banjo-Kazooie have a chance.

DHD is a retro character added for the sake of being retro, doesn't count

 

[Deleted member]

Before any Banjo fans complain about the relevancy argument, Sakurai DID say it matters. 'But Mega Man!' is still getting games, 10 was 2010 iirc and we got SFXMM and Xover, those are still there and keep him relevant to gaming

You're right, however, relevancy isn't an issue:

Out this year, and a Summer best-seller.