Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[FalKoopa]

That comment kicked up quite a storm, eh? A sandstorm.

But yeah, before you give Isaac a hard time for being a blonde RPG hero, at least take the time to research his abilities and powers. Just having blonde hair and being an RPG hero doesn't make a character bland.

That's like saying Ryu is bland because a lot of his and Mario's moves are superficially similar.

 

[TheAnvil]

View attachment 87082

Surely like something Psynergy would be enough for him to differentiate between the rest of the sword users, especially taking a certain Brawl mod into consideration.

Just save his actual sword attacks for a few of his aerials for something like that and you already have something more unique than the other two sword users.

Yeah so what, he'd be "slightly different". And anyone here can try to justify that he'd be different with these little details that would differentiate him slightly from the other dozen sword characters in the game, but do you know what would be really different? Someone who is actually different!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That comment kicked up quite a storm, eh? A sandstorm.

That Punji was Golden.

 

[vegeta18]

Quick question:

Do you guys think we're going to get to download content the day of the direct? I have this fear that it's just going to be reveals and we're going to have to wait even longer to get any stuff..

There are 2 things that kind of scare me, the first is that we all thought a character was going to come out last Nintendo direct, we were almost sure that's why they waited so long but then all we got was a trailer and the realization that Nintendo didn't mention there would be any content at all.

The second thing is that last smash direct when Roy and stuff came they literally warned us that some stuff was incoming, on their webpage there was a huge thing that said "new content approaching" we don't have anything like that this time

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

TheAnvil

Can (pick up a boulder) create energy hands capable of moving objects or people with (Relative) ease?

Move Psynergy. Thanks to Brawl, I'd probably say that anyone who's played it will associate this with Isaac.

Makes earthquakes that can shoot people into the air?

We don't have any character in Smash that manipulates the earth itself. That is in itself, a unique feature Isaac can bring to Smash Bros.

Drop (Crushing rocks) on his opponents seem such a breeze?

Shoot vines out of the ground and ensnare his opponents?

He may not need his sword, he can wield an ax, this Golden Son, is a worthy Smash Bros Candidate!!

I believe my 'differentiation' standards have already been met. Seeing this being used by a 3D or HD Isaac... it makes my bones tremble. I'm quaking in my boots!

 

[FalKoopa]

I think summoning giant hands and using earth magic (which no one in the roster does curently) would be enough to make him more than 'slightly' different.

 

[Deleted member]

So, we got around 4 days before the direct, so what can we conclude till then?

Well, for one, we know that we mined three extra slots not too long ago. One of which will obviously go to Cloud. Now, there's nothing prohibiting more slots from being added, however, given our current evidence, the most accurate assumption we can make is that we'll see two more characters, and that's it.

Number two, we also know for certain that the ballot holds a lot of weight for this next reveal, now, it's not absolute, and they are merely suggestions for Sakurai, but he DID say it would be fan service from here on. Meaning we can be very certain that ballot popular characters will be chosen for the final two spots.

That being said, these are the worldwide cumulative results in polls:

#1: Wolf (26)
#1: K. Rool (26)
#3: Ice Climbers (42)
#3: Snake (42)
#5: Isaac (60)
#6: Inklings (68)
#7: Dixie Kong (82)
#8: Banjo & Kazooie (85)
#9: Bandana Dee (115)
#10: Krystal (123)

Now, granted, these are not perfect, but they are as accurate as we can get them. Nonetheless, if you look at the data, the same 10 characters keep showing up at the top again and again in polls.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72623332

There you have a breakdown of the data.

Now, if we take a closer look at Sakurai's criteria, as well as current events it can be easy to see which characters simply have diminished chances, and which ones have better odds.

Sakurai's criteria on 3rd parties:

Personally, I would breakdown and rearrange the top 10 as follows in regards to probability (Snake and IC removed for obvious reasons, Krystal removed because she's never happening before Wolf, and if Wolf gets in, she's also not happening):

Wolf
Banjo & Kazooie
Isaac
Dixie Kong
Bandana Dee
Paper Mario
K.Rool
Inklings

I would say certainly expect two of these 8 characters to be revealed on Tuesday.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Isaac discussion? I was kinda afraid Cloud would have been used as a reason to be against Isaac considering they are both anime-style JRPG male protagonists with spiky hair, which is why my initial reaction to Cloud was meh and one of the reasons why I wasn't actively rooting for him (I wasn't rooting against him, however)

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So apparently using Psynergy for the larger majority of his attacks and saving the sword for two or three means its only "slightly" different?

Come on man, you can't be serious right now >_>

 

[TheAnvil]

TheAnvil

I believe my 'differentiation' standards have already been met. Seeing this being used by a 3D or HD Isaac... it makes my bones tremble. I'm quaking in my boots!

You can believe what you want, love. You're going to continue wanting Isaac. I'm going to continue predominantly wanting characters that are as different as possible from the ones we already have.

 

[Kenith]

You can believe what you want, love. You're going to continue wanting Isaac. I'm going to continue predominantly wanting characters that are as different as possible from the ones we already have.

I'm sure Isaac supporters will as well.
Which is part of the reason they're supporting Isaac.

 

[Kalimdori]

You can believe what you want, love. You're going to continue wanting Isaac. I'm going to continue predominantly wanting characters that are as different as possible from the ones we already have.

And that's fine. But unless you can come up with intelligent reasons for why you think that, people are never going to stop calling you out for it

 

[TruthAlone]

I honestly just want to see Bomberman make it in. :/

 

[TheAnvil]

And that's fine. But unless you can come up with intelligent reasons for why you think that, people are never going to stop calling you out for it

I've literally already stated that I want something other than another generic RPG sword user. No one has even remotely negated that argument.

 

[FalKoopa]

I've literally already stated that I want something other than another generic RPG sword user. No one has even remotely negated that argument.

What do mean by 'generic'?

 

[TheAnvil]

What do mean by 'generic'?

Generic
characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things.

 

[FalKoopa]

Generic
characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things.

Are you a walking, talking dictionary?

Jokes aside, care to explain in relation to Isaac? Because it only seems like you're putting him down only based on his looks and his game being an RPG.

 

[Kenith]

Generic
characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things.

So, in other words, vaguely applicable to Isaac at most?
It's funny because, the only characters that resemble Isaac at all physically...have nothing in common with him in terms of moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

What do mean by 'generic'?

To be fair, Isaac is pretty damn generic.

He's the classic, sword-wielding mage silent protag from every FF, DQ, etc...

I mean, think about it, he's basically Crono with blond hair and funny outfit. Just cause you call the magic "alchemy" and the spells "psyenergy" doesn't really make him that much different from his obvious predecessors.

Golden Sun's strengths lie in tge battle system, mechanics, and setting, but the characters and plot are so cut dry and boring it's like they took a "How to write an RPG story for dummies" and just threw something together.

He has some cool abilities, be aside from his ability to earth-bend and have telekinetic hands, he's really nothing special.

I admit he has cool abilities that would translate well to Smash, and I personally do wanna see him in Smash, but let's not kid ourselves here... as far as the character himself goes, he's about as boring and generic as you can get.

 

[Kenith]

To be fair, Isaac is pretty damn generic.

He's the classic, sword-wielding mage silent protag from every FF, DQ, etc...

I mean, think about it, he's basically Crono with blond hair and funny outfit. Just cause you call the magic "alchemy" and the spells "psyenergy" doesn't really make him that much different from his obvious predecessors.

Golden Sun's strengths lie in tge battle system, mechanics, and setting, but the characters and plot are so cut dry and boring it's like they took a "How to write an RPG story for dummies" and just threw something together.

He has some cool abilities, be aside from his ability to earth-bend and have telekinetic hands, he's really nothing special.

I admit he has cool abilities that would translate well to Smash, and I personally do wanna see him in Smash, but let's not kid ourselves here... as far as the character himself goes, he's about as boring and generic as you can get.

That doesn't matter in terms of Smash, though. He can be a very different character in the confines of this game.

 

[TheAnvil]

Are you a walking, talking dictionary?

Jokes aside, care to explain in relation to Isaac? Because it only seems like you're putting him down only based on his looks and his game being an RPG.

Granted I haven't played GS, but I've watched plenty of it on youtube as I wanted to get a feel of the character during the pre-release period as he had at least notable support.

Personality wise? There's little there, he's basically a bog standard silent protagonist.
His abilities? Common tropes of most RPGs of its kind. Swords and magic.
His design? Again, bog standard. Spiky hair, not unlike Cloud (who popularised that trope).

Even his move in Brawl as an Assist Trophy was little more than Palutena's down B.

 

[FalKoopa]

To be fair, Isaac is pretty damn generic.

He's the classic, sword-wielding mage silent protag from every FF, DQ, etc...

I mean, think about it, he's basically Crono with blond hair and funny outfit. Just cause you call the magic "alchemy" and the spells "psyenergy" doesn't really make him that much different from his obvious predecessors.

Golden Sun's strengths lie in tge battle system, mechanics, and setting, but the characters and plot are so cut dry and boring it's like they took a "How to write an RPG story for dummies" and just threw something together.

He has some cool abilities, be aside from his ability to earth-bend and have telekinetic hands, he's really nothing special.

I admit he has cool abilities that would translate well to Smash, and I personally do wanna see him in Smash, but let's not kid ourselves here... as far as the character himself goes, he's about as boring and generic as you can get.

Plot and personality aren't exactly a big deal for Smash. Or that would rule out Mario.

His résumé and most of his appeal do come from his abilities, which forms the base of his moveset and the primary reason we want him in Smash, besides us enjoying the Golden Sun games a lot.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

They're relevant because of Smash Bros, which leads to some circular logic to them getting in. Like, nobody wanted Wolf before Brawl. (Yeah, the backlash of him being on the roster with a Landmaster, not being Krystal, and being one of the last characters revealed and the whole "only 35 characters" thing gave him some ridiculous hate.

That is completely and utterly false

Question: Why did Wolf become a playable fighter, and not Krystal?

Sakurai: Wolf was a character that barely made it in due to time constraints. He was added because there was high demand for his inclusion on places like “Smash Bros. Dojo!!”, and he’s a popular character. Of course, if he didn’t have that backing him, I don’t think I could have put him in. Among the characters with high popularity, I chose one who had a high possibility of becoming realized in the game, and as a result you could say Wolf was created.

 

[FalKoopa]

Granted I haven't played GS, but I've watched plenty of it on youtube as I wanted to get a feel of the character during the pre-release period as he had at least notable support.

Personality wise? There's little there, he's basically a bog standard silent protagonist.
His abilities? Common tropes of most RPGs of its kind. Swords and magic.
His design? Again, bog standard. Spiky hair, not unlike Cloud (who popularised that trope).

I'll grant you this much that his looks aren't special.

But really, you should concede the point about his abilities being different. That's all I'm asking. I understand that you don't like him and I most likely won't be able to change your mind on that.

You should understand that Isaac supporters have seen this very argument (generic RPG protagonist) being used against him for years and it's aggravating when someone uses the same point without doing research. Like this:

Even his move in Brawl as an Assist Trophy was little more than Palutena's down B.

Just like K. Rool supporters are tired of irrelevancy arguments, and are willing to jump on any one using that to dismiss him... we're not different.

 

[Kalimdori]

Granted I haven't played GS, but I've watched plenty of it on youtube as I wanted to get a feel of the character during the pre-release period as he had at least notable support.

Personality wise? There's little there, he's basically a bog standard silent protagonist.
His abilities? Common tropes of most RPGs of its kind. Swords and magic.
His design? Again, bog standard. Spiky hair, not unlike Cloud (who popularised that trope).

Even his move in Brawl as an Assist Trophy was little more than Palutena's down B.

The fact that so many people were able to call you out on not really knowing about Isaac should be a hint that you still don't really have a solid case against him. (Calling it a case at all is being generous tbh)

I'm going to completely ignore personality and design because personality means absolutely nothing in regards to Smash Bros, as shown by multiple characters already on the roster, and his design is still easily distinguishable from other characters on the roster.

Ability wise, Isaac is able to do things that NOBODY else can do on the roster, which has been pointed out to you SEVERAL times yet you seem incapable of comprehending. Isaac has so much to draw from (Literally dozens of abilities) that it's perfectly possible to make him a moveset without using a sword AT ALL.

Also, Palutena's Down B is a counter

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Granted I haven't played GS, but I've watched plenty of it on youtube as I wanted to get a feel of the character during the pre-release period as he had at least notable support.

Personality wise? There's little there, he's basically a bog standard silent protagonist.
His abilities? Common tropes of most RPGs of its kind. Swords and magic.
His design? Again, bog standard. Spiky hair, not unlike Cloud (who popularised that trope).

Even his move in Brawl as an Assist Trophy was little more than Palutena's down B.

Before I go to bed - Let me point out some slight contradictions:

Golden Sun always has a 'silent' protagonist - the player controls their actions. You could even make Isaac a 'Meh, I don't buy your I'll save the world story, I'm outta here,' at the start of the game to get a Bad Ending. Another point - Even though Felix had dialogue in GS1, come The Lost Age, he doesn't say a thing. Isaac's son Matthew also has a similar silent role, even though at one point he does speak, though I bet he's going to be grounded for a week if his dad found out what he said.

And I don't recall Move being a counter. Or making him 'Gotta Go Fast.' Or celebrate his inclusion with fireworks.

Now then, time to apply some Sleep Psynergy on myself...

Also - Playing Golden Sun > Watching a Golden Sun Walkthrough. Now to sleep, Strider!!!

 

[TheAnvil]

I'll grant you this much that his looks aren't special.

But really, you should concede the point about his abilities being different. That's all I'm asking. I understand that you don't like him and I most likely won't be able to change your mind on that.

You should understand that Isaac supporters have seen this very argument (generic RPG protagonist) being used against him for years and it's aggravating when someone uses the same point without doing research. Like this:



Just like K. Rool supporters are tired of irrelevancy arguments, and are willing to jump on any one using that to dismiss him... we're not different.

I don't think you do understand. It's not at all that I "don't like him". That's not even remotely a factor in this, I've already said that I don't dislike him. I dislike the idea of him in Smash at this time. Because he doesn't offer ENOUGH in terms of unique moveset potential to make him a desirable choice to me. I'm wanting fresh experiences with these characters, because all we've really had to fulfill this so far is Ryu. The rest of the DLC so far are 3 vets (2 of whom are semi-clones) and another sword user who looks to be the love child of Shulk and Ike (with an extra gimmick), we've not been getting completely fresh experiences. That's what I want, and that's what Isaac will undoubtedly fail to deliver.

 

[Deleted member]

Plot and personality aren't exactly a big deal for Smash. Or that would rule out Mario.

His résumé and most of his appeal do come from his abilities, which forms the base of his moveset and the primary reason we want him in Smash, besides us enjoying the Golden Sun games a lot.

That doesn't matter in terms of Smash, though. He can be a very different character in the confines of this game.

I'm not talking about Smash though, I already said he COULD bring forth unique abilities in Smash.

But you asked how he was generic, and I answered the question.

You can call them tomes, you can call it ether , you can call it materia , you can call it alchemy, but the fact still remains that at the end of the day, it's just another pseudonym for magic, and at the end of the day, earth magic is still magic, and people will just look at Isaac and say, "oh look, another blond spiky-haired dude with a sword that does magic." To most, they see what they see, even if a sword character can still have the same hitboxes as a farting character, people will complain about the lack of originality in "ugh, too many sword characters." Yes, Isaac can be a unique fighter, but he WON'T be percived as so, simply due to the lack of originality that came in designing his character.

"Alchemy" was picked as the name for magic in GS mostly cause it sounded cool, because alchemy is not this:

It's this:

And in FMA's defense, in there it was done to tie its strongly to tge themes of the plot and was at least very scientific in nature, and had strong ties to the actual concept with very strong rules and limits. None of which GS did with its Djinn system. Again, just poor writing, and it came off as rather generic in concept and plot.

Again, I'm speaking about the character. But people will percieve him as generic, despite his unique abilities, because GS plays it very safe in regard to RPG tropes. At least the likes of Shulk and Cloud broke the mold in rather dramatic ways, and even still...

Golden Sun is a product of its time that didn't really try to be anything very revolutionary, just a very polished experience. And as a result, both the game and the characters suffer because of it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Inklings can't make it in Smash, Isaac would be a good consolation prize for me...

But seriously though, Sakurai-san needs to at least make a Splatoon stage!

 

[TheAnvil]

The fact that so many people were able to call you out on not really knowing about Isaac should be a hint that you still don't really have a solid case against him. (Calling it a case at all is being generous tbh)

I'm going to completely ignore personality and design because personality means absolutely nothing in regards to Smash Bros, as shown by multiple characters already on the roster, and his design is still easily distinguishable from other characters on the roster.

Ability wise, Isaac is able to do things that NOBODY else can do on the roster, which has been pointed out to you SEVERAL times yet you seem incapable of comprehending. Isaac has so much to draw from (Literally dozens of abilities) that it's perfectly possible to make him a moveset without using a sword AT ALL.

Also, Palutena's Down B is a counter

People are "calling me out" because they're defending the character they want. They've still all failed to present a compelling case for why Isaac would be "different enough" to justify inclusion to me.

You're only ignoring it, because it's absolutely true. And personality is absolutely a factor for Sakurai when selecting characters. You'll notice that most of the characters with bland personalities in Smash are characters who are basically icons of gaming, or at least in Ness' case, he was in Smash from the get-go.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/

Ability wise, Isaac uses the same tropes as most other characters in his genre. Yes, they're not "exactly" the same as the other characters in Smash, but they're close enough for it to be a factor for why I want something that's entirely different. I'm talking the kind of different that Mario is to Duck Hunt Duo.

Side B then.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm not talking about Smash though, I already said he COULD bring forth unique abilities in Smash.

But you asked how he was generic, and I answered the question.

You can call them tomes, you can call it ether , you can call it materia , you can call it alchemy, but the fact still remains that at the end of the day, it's just another pseudonym for magic, and at the end of the day, earth magic is still magic, and people will just look at Isaac and say, "oh look, another blond spiky-haired dude with a sword that does magic." To most, they see what they see, even if a sword character can still have the same hitboxes as a farting character, people will complain about the lack of originality in "ugh, too many sword characters." Yes, Isaac can be a unique fighter, but he WON'T be percived as so, simply due to the lack of originality that came in designing his character.

"Alchemy" was picked as the name for magic in GS mostly cause it sounded cool, because alchemy is not this:

It's this:

And in FMA's defense, in there it was done to tie its strongly to tge themes of the plot and was at least very scientific in nature, and had strong ties to the actual concept with very strong rules and limits. None of which GS did with its Djinn system. Again, just poor writing, and it came off as rather generic in concept and plot.

Again, I'm speaking about the character. But people will percieve him as generic, despite his unique abilities, because GS plays it very safe in regard to RPG tropes. At least the likes of Shulk and Cloud broke the mold in rather dramatic ways, and even still...

Well... we are in the DLC discussion thread.

I get what you're saying, but it seems like ignorance on the part of the audience. Have we become that kind of connoisseurs?

And I know that GS alchemy is nothing like actual alchemy, where they tried to turn cheap metals like lead into gold.

I don't think you do understand. It's not at all that I "don't like him". That's not even remotely a factor in this, I've already said that I don't dislike him. I dislike the idea of him in Smash at this time. Because he doesn't offer ENOUGH in terms of unique moveset potential to make him a desirable choice to me. I'm wanting fresh experiences with these characters, because all we've really had to fulfill this so far is Ryu. The rest of the DLC so far are 3 vets (2 of whom are semi-clones) and another sword user who looks to be the love child of Shulk and Ike (with an extra gimmick), we've not been getting completely fresh experiences. That's what I want, and that's what Isaac will undoubtedly fail to deliver.

I guess we'll agree to disagree then. It seems you simply don't want a sword character at all, which, sounds rather shallow to me. But alright. To each their own.

If neither K. Rool or Isaac are in ,we ll be crying in each other's arms. (I'm not confident in either's chances at this point.)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You're only ignoring it, because it's absolutely true. And personality is absolutely a factor for Sakurai when selecting characters. You'll notice that most of the characters with bland personalities in Smash are characters who are basically icons of gaming, or at least in Ness' case, he was in Smash from the get-go.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/

It's interesting you bring that up, considering Sakurai viewed Roy as a character with personality even though he gets critisized among Fire Emblem fans partially because of his perceived lack of personality.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I love how people complain about getting "another sword character" when there's not even that many sword characters.

(and if you want to count customs)

That makes 11 (12) out of 56 different characters (if you include each Mii style as its own character)

I think we can handle one more...

 

[Amberloo]

The thing I like about Isaac is that his sword is about as much a decoration as his scarf or boots. It's a generic looking sword, I mean, it could just be the short sword he starts his quest with. Every other swordfighter- Link, Marth, Ike, Roy, Lucina, Cloud, Robin, Shulk- they all carry some sword that is iconic to them, even legendary from their game. Ironically, this is what makes Isaac stand out to me. He's really nothing without his psynergy (or djinn), the same way that most of the FE cast (outside of Robin) would be useless without their signature blade. You wouldn't want to portray him without those abilities because it'd be like Link not having the Master Sword, or Shulk not having the Monado. And even if he's considered the trope-y mage knight, how many of those do we actually have on the roster? Everyone, apart from Robin, either solely relies in their sword or uses ranged weapons alongside it. Heck, even Cloud, who can learn magic, is shown not actually using ANY magic in his moveset. Also, since I'm apparently blatantly unaware, what character on the current roster uses anything resembling earth magic? The closest thing I can think of is DK's ground pound, and it's not even magic, just brute strength.

 

[FalKoopa]

Speaking of Sakurai's criteria, I don't think they can be blindly applied to Smash 4. We based a LOT of our Smash 4 predictions based the selection criteria used in Brawl, and we did terrible in predicting him.

I don't recall having a lot of personality. And Miis are literally blank slates.

He laid out the criteria for Brawl, where I don't think he followed it either. don’t have much of a personality to speak of.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Speaking of Sakurai's criteria, I don't think they can be blindly applied to Smash 4. We based a LOT of our Smash 4 predictions based the selection criteria used in Brawl, and we did terrible in predicting him.

That's probably because people assumed that, because many of the characters that were heavily requested for Brawl made it in with several of them confirmed to be in due to fan demand, that the same would be applied to the initial Smash 4 roster based off fan polls. Mewtwo, the guy who frequently ranked first in them, didn't even make it in to the initial roster, so we were way off the mark.

 

[Deleted member]

Well... we are in the DLC discussion thread.

I get what you're saying, but it seems like ignorance on the part of the audience. Have we become that kind of connoisseurs?

And I know that GS alchemy is nothing like actual alchemy, where they tried to turn cheap metals like lead into gold.


I guess we'll agree to disagree then. It seems you simply don't want a sword character at all, which, sounds rather shallow to me. But alright. To each their own.

If neither K. Rool or Isaac are in ,we ll be crying in each other's arms. (I'm not confident in either's chances at this point.)

Speaking of Sakurai's criteria, I don't think they can be blindly applied to Smash 4. We based a LOT of our Smash 4 predictions based the selection criteria used in Brawl, and we did terrible in predicting him.

I don't recall having a lot of personality. And Miis are literally blank slates.

He laid out the criteria for Brawl, where I don't think he followed it either. don’t have much of a personality to speak of.

Ofc the masses are ignorant, I've been saying this since forever.

Didn't you watch the video I posted a couple days ago that made everyone here really upset?

That said, I'm not saying Isaac's lack of creativity really affects his chances as DLC, I listed him in my top 8 list as no. 3.

And Diddy and DHD both have plenty of personality. Especially compared to most vidya characters. If you want a good example, don't look any further than:

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And Diddy and DHD both have plenty of personality.

DHD's personality is basically being the original video game troll.

Didn't you watch the video I posted a couple days ago that made everyone here really upset?

I was actually amused by that video consideirng the hilarious names they gave to the Smash characters. The "They all look the same!" and the reaction of surprise at the existence of a character design like Shulk in Smash was basically one of the highlights of that video.

 

[TheAnvil]

Well... we are in the DLC discussion thread.

I get what you're saying, but it seems like ignorance on the part of the audience. Have we become that kind of connoisseurs?

And I know that GS alchemy is nothing like actual alchemy, where they tried to turn cheap metals like lead into gold.


I guess we'll agree to disagree then. It seems you simply don't want a sword character at all, which, sounds rather shallow to me. But alright. To each their own.

If neither K. Rool or Isaac are in ,we ll be crying in each other's arms. (I'm not confident in either's chances at this point.)

I'd be extremely surprised if either made it in to be honest. If I'm being realistic, as much as I love K. Rool, he no longer has casual appeal because of his huge stretch of inactivity, and DLC has gotta sell to everyone. If we're looking at the characters we've got as DLC, especially the newcomers, they're huge icons, and the veterans were already immortalized by prior Smash games. Isaac is probably even worse off in that regard as Golden Sun never saw the kind of success that K. Rool's games did.

This is why I'm thinking we're getting at least 1 more 3rd Party. The Inklings are just about the only feasible 1st Party characters from a mass appeal standpoint.

 

[GreenKirby]

And now we're using the personality argument?

Here's the thing, it's literarily impossible to have a character with no personality whatsoever.

Even Mario and Link have some form of personality, because if they didn't, they wouldn't even bother going on an adventure. In fact, they wouldn't even bother to react to like any little thing like wincing from pain to the joy of eating.