General Pit Discussion Thread

[zen-bz-]

Today I went all Bowser at the weekly and got first in doubles alongside a Luigi and then third in singles.

Had some mentality issues where I wanted so badly to win that I'd get in my own head and do stupid things while trying to win faster, so I figured playing a character I've put relatively little time into and just not taking this tournament as seriously as I usually do would be good for me. Besides, with the school year in I didn't think the stress of playing to win would be healthy. Bowser seemed like the most appropriate character to do that with based on everyone I've tried in this game (it's a bit of a list LOL).

So what characters do y'all play besides Pit?

Nice job at the tourney!

Anyway, my secondary is Snake, but I put a fair bit of time into Lucas and Fox also. Even the occasional Marth seeing as he's my Melee main.

 

[Life]

Even the occasional Marth seeing as he's my Melee main.

You have good taste but actually Marth teaches a lot of skills that are relevant to Pit; I think of the Melee cast, Marth is the one who's gonna play the most similarly to Pit. (IMO he's also the best character to learn Melee on in general, since he literally has a mechanic built-in that rewards proper spacing and relatively little character-specific tech. The closest thing he has to a crutch is his dash dance.)

Since I brought it up: PM characters that I've played... well, my goal is to eventually be able to play everyone, since my scene is relatively small and there's no way we're going to be able to have every character (or even every good character) with a dedicated main who comes regularly and is at least decent.

In bracket I've played Bowser, Diddy Kong, Fox, Falco, Zelda, Squirtle, Charizard, Samus, Pit, MK (I think?), Marth, ROB, Sonic. (Many of those were only for one game or set, were for sandbagging, only came up in All-Star Versus, etc.)

Next projects are Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, and then maybe Pikachu or Peach after those? But most of my bracket success has come from Pit, Squirtle, Charizard, and I guess Bowser as of yesterday.

 

[Taytertot]

You have good taste but actually Marth teaches a lot of skills that are relevant to Pit; I think of the Melee cast, Marth is the one who's gonna play the most similarly to Pit. (IMO he's also the best character to learn Melee on in general, since he literally has a mechanic built-in that rewards proper spacing and relatively little character-specific tech. The closest thing he has to a crutch is his dash dance.)

Since I brought it up: PM characters that I've played... well, my goal is to eventually be able to play everyone, since my scene is relatively small and there's no way we're going to be able to have every character (or even every good character) with a dedicated main who comes regularly and is at least decent.

In bracket I've played Bowser, Diddy Kong, Fox, Falco, Zelda, Squirtle, Charizard, Samus, Pit, MK (I think?), Marth, ROB, Sonic. (Many of those were only for one game or set, were for sandbagging, only came up in All-Star Versus, etc.)

Next projects are Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, and then maybe Pikachu or Peach after those? But most of my bracket success has come from Pit, Squirtle, Charizard, and I guess Bowser as of yesterday.

nice i definitely agree about marth being a great character to learn with. my main is roy and i play enough ganon that i could call him a secondary though i feel that ganon doesnt really cover roy's bad MU's very well. because marth and roy are very similar and i mained marth when i used to play brawl, my marth is decent enough. i really want to get good at lucas, ness, rob, pit and wolf (maybe samus as well but my playstyle is a little on the aggressive side which throws me off when i play samus). but i find myself not playing many of them well because im very used to relying on long range spacing and having tools to cover a lot of options at once.
the reason i started getting interested in pit in the first place was that i tried him a few times and felt that i picked up some of his combos and gameplan pretty quick since hes got spacing, good aerials and interesting mechanics. Pit feels similar to roy in many ways to me as far as gameplan level of aggression goes as well as how much fundamentals effects their potential.

 

[zen-bz-]

You have good taste but actually Marth teaches a lot of skills that are relevant to Pit; I think of the Melee cast, Marth is the one who's gonna play the most similarly to Pit. (IMO he's also the best character to learn Melee on in general, since he literally has a mechanic built-in that rewards proper spacing and relatively little character-specific tech. The closest thing he has to a crutch is his dash dance.)

Both favor good positioning and movement a ton. I don't play Marth a ton because I already play enough of him in Melee and wanna experiment with PM specific stuff, but I love playing both.

But off topic, Lucas is super fun to play as. He's not who I put tons of focus into, but I do learn his BnB combos, options, and whatnot. And once I did, I could perform tons of strings. It's really fun.

 

[Life]

Today I got fifth at my weekly and I'm salty because I got to last stock of game 3 against someone I usually beat and went for an upB that was very obviously not going to hit and proceeded to die to GnW fsmash at 90something. It's like I don't even want to win or something.

I was talking a while back about the importance of discipline when playing Pit; today I received a grim reminder.

 

[Taytertot]

Today I got fifth at my weekly and I'm salty because I got to last stock of game 3 against someone I usually beat and went for an upB that was very obviously not going to hit and proceeded to die to GnW fsmash at 90something. It's like I don't even want to win or something.

I was talking a while back about the importance of discipline when playing Pit; today I received a grim reminder.

still 5th is pretty good.

 

[Life]

still 5th is pretty good.

It's been a while since I've done worse given similar levels of competition. Our talent pool is very shallow here and I feel I should be able to get top 3 semi-consistently (had I won my loser's match I'd have had quite the gauntlet to go through this week so I guess I shouldn't get too mad but still argh).

 

[Sundark]

Managed to close out a set using my Pit against a Dedede player yesterday who'd been giving my Roy trouble recently. Ironically it was closer with Pit (1-stock, high percent) than it was with Roy (2-stock, don't remember %), but it was nice to see that my Pit was capable of winning, and the matchup definitely felt much more manageable.

Charizard, on the other hand... I'm not sure if Pit would fare much better than Roy in that matchup, but I'll have to look into it.

 

[Life]

If Charizard is playing right, he should have the advantage on Roy. Not certain about the Pit matchup, since I'm very nearly the only player of either of those characters in my area.

 

[Taytertot]

It's been a while since I've done worse given similar levels of competition. Our talent pool is very shallow here and I feel I should be able to get top 3 semi-consistently (had I won my loser's match I'd have had quite the gauntlet to go through this week so I guess I shouldn't get too mad but still argh).

it happens. at least you can find something that wasnt working to improve upon.

charizard does tend to have trouble with projectiles so pit could have a better MU there.

 

[Sour_]

Hi pit boards i play this character lol. Ive played super casually with a group of friends since 3.0 and decided i wanted to get serious about tournaments. But i had some questions to start. is pits dair a spike or meteor? and whats up with d tilt? if i connect d tilt at the right spot while edge guarding and the opponent is below is that a spike too?

 

[Life]

Dair is a true spike. Dtilt is a meteor; it's more for comboing than edgeguarding, though. In most situations you'd be better off with like a ledge hop bair or something.

 

[Taytertot]

Hi pit boards i play this character lol. Ive played super casually with a group of friends since 3.0 and decided i wanted to get serious about tournaments. But i had some questions to start. is pits dair a spike or meteor? and whats up with d tilt? if i connect d tilt at the right spot while edge guarding and the opponent is below is that a spike too?

welcome to smashboards. glad youre interested in tournaments. since you say youve been a casual player up til recently id definitely recommend checking out tournament matches for pit to see what people are doing with this character if you havent started already. If you see something in a match on youtube or twitch or wherever that you dont understand then definitely feel free to ask on the smashboards with a link to video and time during the match.

 

[eideeiit]

When watching vids make sure they're not 3.02 or older.

I also suggest reading Sethlon's Roy guide for a different look at the game and its situations than the one you probably currently have and watching the first 1 or 2 videos of Odds's Bowser tutorials called "Of Odds and ends". The youtube channel is PMDepot. They deal with familiarizing yourself with your character iirc.

Perhaps even before that you should make sure you understand the vocabulary. I think there's a good post for this on the r/ssbpm sidebar.

 

[zen-bz-]

I played Lucas a ton yesterday and now I can't get used to Pit's WD at all ;_;

 

[Kipcom]

Pit's jumpsquat is stupid.

 

[Sour_]

thanks for the advice everyone! are there any pit vids from 3.5 on? its pretty hard to find stuff. I was able to find a Sharkz videos but that's about it lol

 

[Life]

I have a nasty habit of only appearing on recording setups when I'm losing.

Your best bet is to check Free Saltines for Gallo vids, though he only plays Pit occasionally.

 

[Life]

Doublepost because it's been a week.

This week I'd been focusing on cleaning up my techskill and anti-CC game. Well, I lost to Falcon because I basically decided not to edgeguard him from grabbing edge so he got free sweetspots (<__________________<) and then I got blindsided by a Snake player who hadn't shown up in a long time and I figured would be a relatively easy win. Not so much! The kid's clearly been training and I had no idea how to deal with Snake. I tried to DI things and seemed to eat a whole lot of damage no matter what.

In other words, I lost to people I underestimated. Again. Maybe one day I'll learn.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What is Pit's best spacing move? i personally use alot of neutral b's and forward tilts... but i bet there is something better...

 

[Mikkelmann]

So with Pit what are good ways to approach in the neutral game?

 

[Sundark]

Wanting to approach by and large will get you bopped, especially on Pit, but he has some tools to work with to win neutral. Side B Nair/Dair crossups are decent, as is simply hanging back and harassing your opponent with arrows, but by and large the best thing for Pit to do is DD grab and go from there. The general idea is that Pit works really well with stage positioning, so you're not so much trying to get in on your opponent, and more trying to get in on the stage, putting them above you or off the sides so you can juggle them or rebuff attempts to retake stage control with meaty aerials like Fair and Bair.

 

[zen-bz-]

One thing I do ( but I find strange) is that I have sort of "phases" with my character choice. I still have my mains (Lucas, Snake, Pit) but I like to focus on specific characters apart from those mains in order to learn them while my mains take a backseat. For example, just this past week I devoted my time to GnW and learned him and his DI traps and combos. The downside is that I neglect my mains when they could be using more work on the. But when I play against them in tourney my knowledge seems to help out a ton. So IDK if I should continue with my "regimen" or not, but when I go back to playing Pit, I find that I can use strategies from characters such as Marth, Roy, and Lucas into my game.

Thoughts?

 

[Taytertot]

One thing I do ( but I find strange) is that I have sort of "phases" with my character choice. I still have my mains (Lucas, Snake, Pit) but I like to focus on specific characters apart from those mains in order to learn them while my mains take a backseat. For example, just this past week I devoted my time to GnW and learned him and his DI traps and combos. The downside is that I neglect my mains when they could be using more work on the. But when I play against them in tourney my knowledge seems to help out a ton. So IDK if I should continue with my "regimen" or not, but when I go back to playing Pit, I find that I can use strategies from characters such as Marth, Roy, and Lucas into my game.

Thoughts?

i think thats a good idea to an extent especially in learning fundamentals and character MUs but after a while of putting in time to learn characters that you dont intend to main or secondary you'll just be dividing up your practice and not getting as much improvement with your mains. so guess all in all its kinda a balance.

 

[zen-bz-]

i think thats a good idea to an extent especially in learning fundamentals and character MUs but after a while of putting in time to learn characters that you dont intend to main or secondary you'll just be dividing up your practice and not getting as much improvement with your mains. so guess all in all its kinda a balance.

Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Tomaster]

As most of us probably agree, Pit is in the bottom half of the cast. He's good, but it feels like he's just missing something. I have so many ideas on changes that could be made to him so I'm just going to spill them here for people to discuss. Note that I'm a pretty mediocre pit so excuse me if i write something stupid lol.

Jumpsquat- 1 frame sooner. I just don't get his jumpsquat now, i mean i know he has a great short hop and aerials but so do Fox, Falcon, and many other characters. I think his current jumpsquat (frame 5 I believe) just feels wrong and doesn't fit his character.

Back Air- This is probably just me here, but I'm not a fan of the animation of his back air, it kinda looks like he's hitting you with his wings.

Down Air (spike hitbox)- Come on, for as hard as it is to land it's really weak. Either increase the KB or enlarge the hitbox (or both kappa)

Up Smash- It needs to be more consistent, this along with the jumpsquat fix is an absolutely necessary change. People fall out of Up smash way too often when they're not even SDIing..

Forward Tilt- Could be a little faster imo.

Glide Attack- Pretty self explanatory..

I'm not implying that he should receive all of these changes, I think he's close to being in a good place, and those are some of the things that could get him there.
Thoughts?

 

[Kipcom]

A lot of those changes make sense and are pretty agreed upon.

I made a post earlier in this thread about potential Pit changes I want to see for the next build, but what you said about the down air spike, jumpsquat, and back air animation all sound good to me as well. I enjoyed Pit's bair animation in 3.0. No idea why it got changed. The animation change was also a slight nerf, because they removed like 3 of the active frames off of his bair (For what reason? Who the hell knows).

Pit's F-tilt speed is fine to me. I'd rather it have 3.5's KBG back. It being a kill move in 3.0 was pretty silly, but I never once saw the issue with 3.5 Ftilt's KBG. I'm not even sure if it was strong enough to kill unless they were well above kill percent.

They either need to fix Pit's Up-Smash hitboxes, or give us a completely new Up-Smash. Pit's Up-Smash has historically been garbage from what I can tell, and like you said it doesn't even require SDI to somehow get out of it half the time. Same goes for nair, although I actually love the animation for nair, so I'd rather they just fix the hitboxes for that.

I already discussed Pit's jumpsquat in the tier list thread, and most people seem to agree that a character like Pit having a frame 5 jumpsquat is just silly. Definitely hope it gets changed at some point.



I actually have some more ideas for Pit that I want to see come into light, but maybe I'll discuss those at another time. I have so many ideas and suggestions for making Pit a great character (not just an average one) without making him feel polarizing or annoying to fight and without resorting to making him look like 3.0 Pit.

But I'm not PMDT so my opinion doesn't really matter, now does it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[zen-bz-]

I wanna see more uses of nair apart from just disrupting approaches.

 

[FlamingForce]

what do people think of upB? I've been messing around with training mode (I dont actually play Pit but wanted to see what 3.6 made of him) and to me it seems to just suck?

It's hard as balls to set up for, it's completely un-steerable (It goes straight up, always, even if you reverse it) The hitbox is tricky to connect with and it's about as powerful if not slightly weaker than Fox's uair.

Pit seems cool but man he has some issues it seems.

 

[zen-bz-]

what do people think of upB? I've been messing around with training mode (I dont actually play Pit but wanted to see what 3.6 made of him) and to me it seems to just suck?

It's hard as balls to set up for, it's completely un-steerable (It goes straight up, always, even if you reverse it) The hitbox is tricky to connect with and it's about as powerful if not slightly weaker than Fox's uair.

Pit seems cool but man he has some issues it seems.

If you manage to get the strong hit it's a pretty powerful KO move off the top. One combo that may be useful is midair dair -> jump -> strong hit up-b right after. The weak hit is an OK KO move, but I wouldn't suggest it unless you're guaranteed a kill off the top.

Up-B OOS seems to be decent as well from what I can recall. If your opponent misspaces their shield pressure you can easily land a strong hit up b.

I personally don't recommend using it unless you have a guaranteed setup from it as if you whiff it you're probably going to die if the opponent has at least a decent idea of how to punish whiffed moves. But if you DO have a guaranteed setup, it's awesome for an off the top KO move. The one place Pit wants people to be is above him (u-air strings, d-air popup, and up-b notably), so I feel like Up-B is good KO move IF you can land it.

It also reflects projectiles lol

 

[Player -0]

3.6(b) actually nerfed Pit a ton lol.

Look back to the change list, you can't really tell me 3.6 was good for Pit.

I always thought people overrated 3.6 buffs but looked back on change list and wow, nerfs are real.

 

[FlamingForce]

If you manage to get the strong hit it's a pretty powerful KO move off the top. One combo that may be useful is midair dair -> jump -> strong hit up-b right after. The weak hit is an OK KO move, but I wouldn't suggest it unless you're guaranteed a kill off the top.

Up-B OOS seems to be decent as well from what I can recall. If your opponent misspaces their shield pressure you can easily land a strong hit up b.

I personally don't recommend using it unless you have a guaranteed setup from it as if you whiff it you're probably going to die if the opponent has at least a decent idea of how to punish whiffed moves. But if you DO have a guaranteed setup, it's awesome for an off the top KO move. The one place Pit wants people to be is above him (u-air strings, d-air popup, and up-b notably), so I feel like Up-B is good KO move IF you can land it.

It also reflects projectiles lol

I just dont see why Pit should have such a troublesome KO move when there are a good amount of similarly powerful options in the game that are nowhere near as hard to set up for and hit.

 

[zen-bz-]

I just dont see why Pit should have such a troublesome KO move when there are a good amount of similarly powerful options in the game that are nowhere near as hard to set up for and hit.

Given his amazing offstage kill potential, I think it counterbalances.

 

[Player -0]

Except Pit's options to get people offstage are very limited/weaker now lol.

 

[zen-bz-]

Except Pit's options to get people offstage are very limited/weaker now lol.

True, unfortunately. Fair and bair are still the main tools to knock people off, but you don't really need just moves to pressure people. Really pressuring opponents to head offstage can come from creative movement and spacing alone.

 

[FlamingForce]

Using dair as another juggle tool for upB setups was something I hadn't thought of, that helps.
Is that wierd front hitbox on dair a true spike? It definitely seems to have the angle for it, it's weak tho.

 

[Sundark]

Using dair as another juggle tool for upB setups was something I hadn't thought of, that helps.
Is that wierd front hitbox on dair a true spike? It definitely seems to have the angle for it, it's weak tho.

Yes, the last two frames of Dair's hitbox will spike. There is no such thing as "true spikes," either, it's strictly about the angle. Within a certain degree of straight down is a meteor, just outside that is a spike (simply a downward-hitting move that can't be Meteor Cancelled), and then further than that is what people call semi-spikes, like Fox's shine or Roy's tipper Dair. The KBG on Pit's Dair does leave it a bit weak, meaning opponents may sometimes recover from it, but it's there.

 

[Player -0]

Some people refer to meteors as spikes (mainly came from Brawl I think). To clarify the difference some people say "true spikes" which refer to spikes and spikes to refer to meteor smashes.

Also 3.5 nerf to Dair spike hurt. Makes onstage combos a bit easier though. It's a fairly good option when SHFFL Fairing someone across the map to ground them.

 

[FlamingForce]

^ What player-0 said

The whole spike/meteor thing became somewhat interchangeable at some point so some people tend to say "true" spikes just to make sure people are on the exact same page.

 

[Kipcom]

Up-B is good KO move IF you can land it.

It also reflects projectiles lol

No, it doesn't.
The entry in that patch note is wrong, and if it isn't, then someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong that is preventing me from reflecting with Up-B, because Pit only ever gets hit by the projectile anyway, or it just makes the projectile disappear.


Anyway, to answer the question about what I think of Up-B. It's fine in kill power. It's harder to get set ups into it than in previous patches, but oh well.

The only problem is that the momentum properties of the move suck. With Tap jump on, if you press Up and B at the same time in mid air (assuming you still have jumps), then he'll stop all of his aerial momentum and Up-B straight up, which is dumb because it can mess up your followup on getting an Up-B after a well DI'd down tilt or down throw (on floaties usually).

With Tap jump off, the momentum halting is not a problem. You can do Up-B's out of running momentum without having to buffer up on your analog stick, and you'll continue to move forward. The problem with this is that once you do that, if you're near the ledge at all, you're dead. Pit cannot maneuver himself after Up-B like at all anymore. What I do to prevent that is B-reversing, but I still think being forced to doing that is stupid.

Not sure why being able to drift after Up-B in 3.0 needed to be removed (especially with how bad of a recovery move Up-B already was), but then again, it also doesn't surprise me because 3.5 Pit was just a clusterf*** of nerfs to almost his entire arsenal, so I hardly question why certain tools of his were nerfed/changed because it's not shocking to me at this point.