General Pit Discussion Thread

[Sharkz]

There's been a lot of threads with simple questions and quick answers. I figured we needed a more general thread in which we can discuss Pit since most other character boards have one, but we don't yet.
Feel free to talk about anything related to Pit whether it be about the character design or how you've fared using him in tournament.

 

[Tomaster]

Nice thread
I really wish the spike hitbox on dair was easier to land...

 

[Life]

A frequent train of thought I see among people who dislike Pit is the claim that the character lacks a sense of identity, having a bunch of kind of average tools that aren't really coherent with each other.

I don't really agree with that line, but I want to know what everyone else here thinks of it. What is Pit's strategic identity to you?

Also, is this a Social thread as well as a General one?

And how do we get people to actually use the Pit board? Lots of people looking for Pit info, yet this place is dead.

 

[Sharkz]

Nice thread
I really wish the spike hitbox on dair was easier to land...

Yeah, it's def not easy for sure. I think I've gotten pretty consistent with it, but the better my friends get at DIing Pit's attacks (which they do near flawlessly now) the harder it is to setup into it. And it's still easy to miss. At least it puts opponents eight above you if you miss.
PUsing it against those who don't know Pit is awesome. So much easier.

 

[zen-bz-]

Yeah, it's def not easy for sure. I think I've gotten pretty consistent with it, but the better my friends get at DIing Pit's attacks (which they do near flawlessly now) the harder it is to setup into it. And it's still easy to miss. At least it puts opponents eight above you if you miss.
PUsing it against those who don't know Pit is awesome. So much easier.

I don't know the hitbox to the sweetspot dair myself, as I've never been able to land it. Is it near the base of his blade, like Roy's, or near the tip?

Simple question IK but I'm just curious.

 

[AceGamer]

I don't know the hitbox to the sweetspot dair myself, as I've never been able to land it. Is it near the base of his blade, like Roy's, or near the tip?

Simple question IK but I'm just curious.

The sweet spot for Pits dair to get the spike is at the end of the swing arc, everything before that pops people up

 

[Sharkz]

A frequent train of thought I see among people who dislike Pit is the claim that the character lacks a sense of identity, having a bunch of kind of average tools that aren't really coherent with each other.

I don't really agree with that line, but I want to know what everyone else here thinks of it. What is Pit's strategic identity to you?

Also, is this a Social thread as well as a General one?

And how do we get people to actually use the Pit board? Lots of people looking for Pit info, yet this place is dead.

The more I understand the game, the more my views change on how I see Pit. I think I'm awful at expressing my views on Smash, but I'll give it a shot. Pit has a lot of small nuances going for him, but no character-defining features (except maybeeee arrows) like a number of other PM characters have. Pit's goal in neutral is really cool. It's all about positioning. Pit is a monster when he's below someone. His edgeguards against most characters is also strong. Pit is a position based character and that's how I identify him. You gotta make your opponents uncomfortable. I would like to discuss more about this in the future but I'm on mobile ATM.


I think this can be a social & discussion thread. Right now there's just a large amount of threads with one post answers that don't really justify it's own thread.

 

[Sharkz]

I don't know the hitbox to the sweetspot dair myself, as I've never been able to land it. Is it near the base of his blade, like Roy's, or near the tip?

Simple question IK but I'm just curious.

If you'd like, me and a bud can make a quick stream clip showcasing it. We can quickly upload it to YouTube

 

[Life]

re: dair spike, it's a tipper and middle hitbox on the last part of the swing. Basically, it hits people who are in front of you. Great for chasing people offstage if they happen to end up in that position.

I got a kill with it on a newbie Zelda player a couple weekends ago. Was pretty cool. Unfortunately, any time you could land dair spike and actually get a kill with it, you probably could have just killed them with something else; unless you people find a setup at mid percents on fastfallers in which case please let us all know haha.

Pit's goal in neutral is really cool. It's all about positioning. Pit is a monster when he's below someone. His edgeguards against most characters is also strong. Pit is a position based character and that's how I identify him. You gotta make your opponents uncomfortable. I would like to discuss more about this in the future but I'm on mobile ATM.

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT

I've told people before that Pit is one of the scariest characters in the game when he's below you, and that it's no coincidence that many of his strongest kill options hit above him, nor is it a coincidence that his most reliable offensive tool (grab) ends up putting people above him (dthrow into regrabs or usmash on inward DI, dash attack on outward DI, or techchases alongside the uthrow mixup on characters that fall out of dthrow dash attack, or aerials at higher percents, or sometimes even weird stuff like dsmash when that's called for). He can cover landings with uair, dash attack, grab, smash attacks, and a billion other things without sacrificing the ability to cover double jumps and stalls.

But all everyone else sees is a stubby-arms version of all the other sword characters. And because sword characters are good because reach, and because Pit doesn't have much reach, suddenly Pit's not good, and doesn't have an identity?

I've been itching to show this philosophy off on stream for a decent amount of time, but stuff keeps getting in the way (missing tournaments, getting upset in bracket, y'know) so I haven't managed to get on a stream setup since I renewed my focus on Pit a few weeks ago. (Also, with Nebulous running again, we'll see more of Gallo's Pit, which I think executes the strategy better than I do. He even uses the correct color!)

 

[zen-bz-]

If you'd like, me and a bud can make a quick stream clip showcasing it. We can quickly upload it to YouTube

I'd appreciate that, thanks.

 

[zen-bz-]

Also, I love nair. It's great for interrupting approach options and can easily be used to control some of the space around you. Even if you miss the l cancel it still has fairly little landing lag. Dair is good too for punishing reckless approaches.

 

[Life]

I generally use nair as an "I want to jump at you with a hitbox but I'm not 100% certain what you're going to do" which probably isn't the best mindset to have but whatever.

Crossup nair is a decent way to get behind someone's shield. Doesn't have great priority, though, so only do it if you think they won't throw out a hitbox.

(Nair also loses to CC, but most of Pit's kit does. If they hold down when you jump at them, you're probably gonna want to double jump out of there and try later (but they won't always do that because this is a fast-paced game). Crossup bair might work in that situation if they have enough percent and you get the strong hit? )

That said, "behind the enemy shield" is a pretty decent place for Pit to be, especially in matchups where bair OOS (or similar options such as glide tossing or Bowser's upB) isn't a big threat. They're gonna be forced to either try to roll/spotdodge/maybe jump to avoid the grab (loses to waiting) or wavedash OOS punish (which you have plenty of frames to deal with depending on which direction they go) or else hold shield because they're expecting something like fsmash bait (loses to grab).

 

[zen-bz-]

I generally use nair as an "I want to jump at you with a hitbox but I'm not 100% certain what you're going to do" which probably isn't the best mindset to have but whatever.

I'm guilty of thinking this too, lol. I use RAR Bair sometimes, even dair if I'm feeling risky, but sometimes, a good ol' nair approach is actually surprisingly effective. I use Bair and Fair the most though.

 

[Kipcom]

I use nair to beat out some projectiles while approaching and sometimes shoddy attempts at edgeguarding. Seriously, there have been so many times where I would nair to intercept their recovery but it knocks them behind me and back on stage instead, lol.


But yeah, Pit's definitely all about positioning, though to be fair, every character in this game benefits from positioning, while a lot of other characters have something major to set them apart from the rest of the cast. Maybe that's why people claim he doesn't have an identity? I dunno.

 

[Life]

Oh, yeah. Back when people thought Mario fireball was busted I was like "lol I have a nair."

Btw Sharkz posted a neat gif on Reddit, for those of you asking about dair spike. https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3irhi7/ken_combo_pit_edition/

 

[Kipcom]

Yeah, that gif was really good! It's a shame that place doesn't get any good Pit content, so seeing that was great.

On another subject, since I'm bored and feel like ranting a bit, am I the only person who has a problem with Pit's:

Up-Smash
Glide and Glide Attack
Up-B

For Up-Smash, I don't think it needs to kill earlier or anything, as it kills just fine. My issue with it is the hitboxes. It doesn't help that pit sort of hops a little during the animation, but the backside of this move feels atrocious and usually never links to the final hit. The front side also seems kinda finicky and doesn't always seem to link into the final hit. I don't mind that the early hits are crouch cancelled, but I don't like getting a good read with upsmash only for it to knock them out before the last hit, even when I know they aren't SDI'ing. To be honest, I think they should just get rid of it for something else, while keeping the KB, KBG, etc. the same as it is now

Onto glide and glide attack. Anybody else think that the initial velocity of the glide should be faster (Doesn't have to be 3.0 fast, maybe a middle ground)? It would also make it a good approach tool (as was one of its intentions, at least in earlier builds) and would let pit jump out of glide and throw out an attack at a faster pace. I feel like it's really slow and not worth approaching with, even at a close to mid level range. I also think it would help his recovery a bit, because I'll be honest. I don't really think Pit's recovery is good, even with multiple jumps and a glide. The moment you even get tapped out of your glide, you're basically dead if offstage, meanwhile MK has a glide and 3 other specials that he can recover with in case he loses his glide. Should Pit keep one jump (assuming he hasn't used them all), even when hit out of glide, similar to how Kirby can keep one jump if hit out of Side Cutter (I think he does, at least). I think the same should apply to Zard, but this isn't the Zard forum so blah.

Glide attack, I dunno, I just don't see the point of this attack. It's not L-cancelable, it doesn't really send people at a favorable angle for combos, it's kinda slow, and it doesn't have a good auto cancel window at all. What good is this move? Does it have any kind use that I just don't about? What is the point of this attack?

For Up-B, this one's pretty nitpicky, but my only complaint is the momentum drifting they took away from it. I don't mind that it doesn't go high, because it's an amazing combo finisher and one of his best kill moves, but what was the purpose of making it so that Pit can't drift backwards after doing an Up-B with forward momentum? As a way to make up for it, I usually just B-reverse my Up-B in situations where I know if I didn't then I'd die offstage, but like, why is that any different from just letting me drift back, rather than going through the needless trouble of b-reversing it? Was the momentum after an Up-B actually a problem, or was it just nerfed just because? Also, how does reflecting with this thing even work? Apparently it can reflect projectiles now, but I've never gotten it to happen. I don't even think this is remotely important or worth using in tournament, but it's just something that's been in the back of my mind lol.

 

[Life]

Usmash linking is a big issue. (Nair and utilt linking are supposedly pretty bad according to Ripple, though I haven't had as many problems with those.) It pretty much needs a bigger body hitbox I think.

I'm also pretty certain upB reflection was never a thing, despite what the patch notes say. I tested it against Falco lasers at various points in the upB animation and never got anything. Unless they did a fix in 3.6 full release?

As for glide, well, I've been telling people even since 3.02 that Pit's recovery is massively overrated, but nobody ever listens. Still better than a few other characters I can think of, I guess. Glide attack used to be decent if you made sure to land immediately upon hitting your opponent, but I'm pretty sure they added lag to it, making it pretty useless. Definitely not worth the risk of getting hit offstage without your glide, anyway. I'm considering working grounded glide into my juggle game as a way to chase b-reverse mixups and the like, but I have yet to actually implement it for that function.

 

[Kipcom]

Yeah, I've never gotten the Up-B to reflect. It just hits the projectile and it disappears. I even tried it against a projectile falling from above and it did nothing. I think the PMDT goofed on that one.

Ground Glide is decent since you can do it out of a dash dance, and you keep all your jumps, unlike the aerial glide. Still, glide is just so slow to me. A slow glide makes sense on someone big and heavy like Zard, but Pit's initial glide speed seems pitiful and leaves a lot to be desired if PMDT thinks that it's actually a good approach tool.

It's also a shame that they nerfed Glide Attack in 3.5, especially when I didn't see it get use in 3.0, either.I only just found out it existed in 3.5, tried to make it work, and didn't since you don't get anything out of it. Feels like it got nerfed because they just needed something else to nerf in his toolkit for no reason.

 

[Taytertot]

(i ran into an error when trying to post this earlier so i hope this isnt a double post)

Yeah, that gif was really good! It's a shame that place doesn't get any good Pit content, so seeing that was great.

On another subject, since I'm bored and feel like ranting a bit, am I the only person who has a problem with Pit's:

Up-Smash
Glide and Glide Attack
Up-B

For Up-Smash, I don't think it needs to kill earlier or anything, as it kills just fine. My issue with it is the hitboxes. It doesn't help that pit sort of hops a little during the animation, but the backside of this move feels atrocious and usually never links to the final hit. The front side also seems kinda finicky and doesn't always seem to link into the final hit. I don't mind that the early hits are crouch cancelled, but I don't like getting a good read with upsmash only for it to knock them out before the last hit, even when I know they aren't SDI'ing. To be honest, I think they should just get rid of it for something else, while keeping the KB, KBG, etc. the same as it is now

Onto glide and glide attack. Anybody else think that the initial velocity of the glide should be faster (Doesn't have to be 3.0 fast, maybe a middle ground)? It would also make it a good approach tool (as was one of its intentions, at least in earlier builds) and would let pit jump out of glide and throw out an attack at a faster pace. I feel like it's really slow and not worth approaching with, even at a close to mid level range. I also think it would help his recovery a bit, because I'll be honest. I don't really think Pit's recovery is good, even with multiple jumps and a glide. The moment you even get tapped out of your glide, you're basically dead if offstage, meanwhile MK has a glide and 3 other specials that he can recover with in case he loses his glide. Should Pit keep one jump (assuming he hasn't used them all), even when hit out of glide, similar to how Kirby can keep one jump if hit out of Side Cutter (I think he does, at least). I think the same should apply to Zard, but this isn't the Zard forum so blah.

Glide attack, I dunno, I just don't see the point of this attack. It's not L-cancelable, it doesn't really send people at a favorable angle for combos, it's kinda slow, and it doesn't have a good auto cancel window at all. What good is this move? Does it have any kind use that I just don't about? What is the point of this attack?

For Up-B, this one's pretty nitpicky, but my only complaint is the momentum drifting they took away from it. I don't mind that it doesn't go high, because it's an amazing combo finisher and one of his best kill moves, but what was the purpose of making it so that Pit can't drift backwards after doing an Up-B with forward momentum? As a way to make up for it, I usually just B-reverse my Up-B in situations where I know if I didn't then I'd die offstage, but like, why is that any different from just letting me drift back, rather than going through the needless trouble of b-reversing it? Was the momentum after an Up-B actually a problem, or was it just nerfed just because? Also, how does reflecting with this thing even work? Apparently it can reflect projectiles now, but I've never gotten it to happen. I don't even think this is remotely important or worth using in tournament, but it's just something that's been in the back of my mind lol.

ive been a roy main for a while and have jumped around to other characters just for fun and recently tried to take pit more seriously, id definitely agree with you about usmash, its way to easy to escape and if its escaped then pit gets punished and roy's usmash in comparison, while not as good a kill option for roy, isnt that easy to SDI out of or punish and its not even a needed move in his toolkit. idk if usmash is important to pit's toolkit but it seems to be more so then roy's is. roy is already a really good character (not that pit isnt) so for him to have a multihit usmash that works better then pit's seems silly. that last hit of pit's usmash has good kill power it seems but its too unreliable to use unless you time some kind of frame trap so that they only get hit by the last hit and therefore cant SDI out of the others but idk if its possible to get a frame trap like that.

is the glide attack the same as pit's glide attack in brawl? because ive only ever used aerials out of pits glide and didnt realize that he still had a glide attack.

On a different note, id definitely agree with life and sharkz about pit being a spacing character, as a roy main i found pit to feel pretty intuitive and didnt have to change my gameplan much from roy though there are a fair amount of differences between the two. pit definitely does have less range but i can tell that the only reason that the range difference is messing me up is because i havent gotten used to having a shorter range and what moves to use in order to remain safe while poking. Im curious what moves i should be using in neutral for pit? other then the obvious arrows of course. but, theres a range where arrow becomes a bit too risky because the opponent is too close to pit and could punish by shielding but is too far for pit's normals to hit and i find myself not knowing how to mitigate that spacial range safely since i am used to roy's dtilt and ftilt covering that space. I suppose glide into an aerial might work if i land behind them but again there is the potential for that to be stuffed if my opponent is prepared.

 

[Life]

@ T Taytertot Sounds to me like you have to dashdance more.

 

[Taytertot]

@ T Taytertot Sounds to me like you have to dashdance more.

maybe so. but does that make up the entirety of pit's closer mid-range gameplan? also what are the general strategies with dash dancing for pit? by that i mean that roy generally uses fsmash out of dash dancing or goes just far enough to exit DDing and dtilt. sideB can also work well for roy. so what does pit usually use from his toolkit to punish out of DD?

 

[Life]

I'm not super good at articulating dashdance goals, but read the dashdance section of this Marth guide:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Daf_Dqod1HoMj7L26ITeUM-xKUKhfxh2vJLWOl2N0C8/edit

Some things Pit can do out of dashdance in neutral include:

1. Grab. This is the big one; pretty much everything Pit does that isn't grab will lose to shielding and crouch canceling, making grab a pretty vital part of his game plan. Luckily, dthrow is a pretty consistent source of moderate damage and (importantly) positional advantage in almost every matchup, so that helps.

2. Dash attack. Yeah, dash attacks are generally thought not super good in this game, BUT that's mainly because they're very unsafe on block or whiff. Sometimes you need the reach, though, and if your opponent has some moderate percent on them you can get stuff like utilts from the popup. If you use it sparingly, and only when you're reasonably sure it'll hit, it's not bad.

3. SHFFL aerials. Should be self explanatory. Nair is good for shield crossups, catching aerial approaches (provided you hit them out of the startup because nair's priority is ehhhhhh), and just generally threatening a wide space. Fair, bair, and dair are all pokes--dair specifically is useful on crossup or against people like Luigi who will try to wavedash under you. SHFFL uair isn't as great in this scenario; although it can be used to catch stuff like unsafe Fox lasers and other jumpy projectile tossers, you can also use nair or dair for that purpose depending on how high they are.

4. Pivot fsmash. This is a pretty decent defensive option, since the optional second hit means that it's a bit scary to try and punish it. Same with pivot jab.

5. Pivot dtilt. Considering there's an easier method to do this than there was in Melee (although it's possible there too, just extremely precise) this is a fairly decent defensive option as well, although it's not as useful as it would be on someone like Marth or Roy or GnW since it's not as big a hitbox. Pivot ftilt works for this purpose as well. Dsmash can be used similarly, but it's higher risk for less reward (provided you can get a followup by using dtilt instead) and slightly easier execution.

6. Shield. Should be self-explanatory. Keep in mind that you'll likely want to be facing your opponent when you shield, unless they're crossup-happy.

7. Arrow. If your opponent is just sitting there and letting you dashdance, throwing out the occasional arrow will help encourage them.

Those are pretty much the decent ones. Here's the situational stuff:

8. Usmash. Use this to catch aerial approaches and maaaaaybe spotdodges if you space it perfectly.

9. Glide. Pretty much strictly worse than just SHFFL but worth mentioning because it's there. Glide attack is bad for some reason, which doesn't help matters.

10. upB. The HARDEST of reads! Pretty much only use this to style on people (at least in this scenario--obviously it has uses elsewhere. upB OOS is actually pretty good against overzealous spacies and the like, but that falls under number 6.)

11. downB. Has five frames of endlag, meaning it's not super good for its shield function, but the cape part of it is useful. Also, heavy armor on frames 3 and 4, which might save your bacon if you mess up with it.

-------------

Oh, and you can also just kinda stop dashdancing with an empty pivot or going into run or whatever, but hopefully that should go without saying.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Taytertot]

I'm not super good at articulating dashdance goals, but read the dashdance section of this Marth guide:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Daf_Dqod1HoMj7L26ITeUM-xKUKhfxh2vJLWOl2N0C8/edit

Some things Pit can do out of dashdance in neutral include:

1. Grab. This is the big one; pretty much everything Pit does that isn't grab will lose to shielding and crouch canceling, making grab a pretty vital part of his game plan. Luckily, dthrow is a pretty consistent source of moderate damage and (importantly) positional advantage in almost every matchup, so that helps.

2. Dash attack. Yeah, dash attacks are generally thought not super good in this game, BUT that's mainly because they're very unsafe on block or whiff. Sometimes you need the reach, though, and if your opponent has some moderate percent on them you can get stuff like utilts from the popup. If you use it sparingly, and only when you're reasonably sure it'll hit, it's not bad.

3. SHFFL aerials. Should be self explanatory. Nair is good for shield crossups, catching aerial approaches (provided you hit them out of the startup because nair's priority is ehhhhhh), and just generally threatening a wide space. Fair, bair, and dair are all pokes--dair specifically is useful on crossup or against people like Luigi who will try to wavedash under you. SHFFL uair isn't as great in this scenario; although it can be used to catch stuff like unsafe Fox lasers and other jumpy projectile tossers, you can also use nair or dair for that purpose depending on how high they are.

4. Pivot fsmash. This is a pretty decent defensive option, since the optional second hit means that it's a bit scary to try and punish it. Same with pivot jab.

5. Pivot dtilt. Considering there's an easier method to do this than there was in Melee (although it's possible there too, just extremely precise) this is a fairly decent defensive option as well, although it's not as useful as it would be on someone like Marth or Roy or GnW since it's not as big a hitbox. Pivot ftilt works for this purpose as well. Dsmash can be used similarly, but it's higher risk for less reward (provided you can get a followup by using dtilt instead) and slightly easier execution.

6. Shield. Should be self-explanatory. Keep in mind that you'll likely want to be facing your opponent when you shield, unless they're crossup-happy.

7. Arrow. If your opponent is just sitting there and letting you dashdance, throwing out the occasional arrow will help encourage them.

Those are pretty much the decent ones. Here's the situational stuff:

8. Usmash. Use this to catch aerial approaches and maaaaaybe spotdodges if you space it perfectly.

9. Glide. Pretty much strictly worse than just SHFFL but worth mentioning because it's there. Glide attack is bad for some reason, which doesn't help matters.

10. upB. The HARDEST of reads! Pretty much only use this to style on people (at least in this scenario--obviously it has uses elsewhere. upB OOS is actually pretty good against overzealous spacies and the like, but that falls under number 6.)

11. downB. Has five frames of endlag, meaning it's not super good for its shield function, but the cape part of it is useful. Also, heavy armor on frames 3 and 4, which might save your bacon if you mess up with it.

-------------

Oh, and you can also just kinda stop dashdancing with an empty pivot or going into run or whatever, but hopefully that should go without saying.

Did I miss anything?

thank you! i guess all of that is pretty straight forward but it does help to understand the mindset for pit since his neutral isnt the same as the other sword characters. I actually assumed that glide was better then that because you can cancel it with aerials for a somewhat faster aerial approach (does cancelling glide with nair or any of the others keep you from being able to Lcancel?) so its good to know that its not as safe as i assumed. It also helps knowing that nair is more of a crossup then a safe approach option.

 

[Kipcom]

Nah, if you use aerials out of glide, you can L cancel them.

You can't, however, L cancel Pit's Glide Attack, which occurs if you press Z during your glide.

 

[zen-bz-]

Nah, if you use aerials out of glide, you can L cancel them.

You can't, however, L cancel Pit's Glide Attack, which occurs if you press Z during your glide.

Speaking of glide attack VS aerials, which situations do you believe warrant a glide attack and which one aerials? I know sometimes when I recover I use glide attack to cover the space below me, but I don't know if it has other uses or it's not worth using often.

 

[Kipcom]

I've pretty much never had glide attack work out for me. Not to extend combos, not to cover myself, etc.

I might try using it a bit more to see if maybe I'm just bad with it, and if it actually has some viability in terms of getting people out of your zone when you're recovering. In all honestly, I usually just dair out of glide to hit someone below me. If it hits, it pops them up and then puts them in a position that I could possibly take control of. I don't feel like I get that same benefit from Glide Attack.

So to answer your question, I'd honestly say to just not use the thing. Not until PMDT realizes that the move is actually garbage and they decide it needs something that warrants its use.

 

[zen-bz-]

Ok, that makes sense.

How would you change glide attack to make it viable, though? Making it l-cancelable would be a step in the right direction IMO, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on improvement.

 

[Sundark]

I don't have a whole lot to add, but I want to say this is a really solid thread and I hope it keeps up. I'm another Roy player dabbling with Pit and I've been checking this forum every so often for stuff like this to little avail, and I'd love for this thread to change that.

5. Pivot dtilt. Considering there's an easier method to do this than there was in Melee (although it's possible there too, just extremely precise)

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure if I've heard of it.

But yeah, "identity" aside, I've basically been approaching Pit sort of as a more air-based Roy. You definitely have to focus on DD and followups out of throws, then seal stocks with Uair to UpB combos, deep Fair/Bair edgeguards (the hitboxes on these last super long, by the way, which makes them excellent for anti-approaches, I find), or Arrow snipes to gimp. I don't think my Pit is the same level as my Roy just yet, but I'm having a lot of fun figuring out new tricks by applying what I already know, and learning other things in the process.

 

[Life]

Basically if you move the stick to the other side slowly, you can get empty pivot for free out of dashdance. It's hard to space it precisely, but the tradeoff might be worth it.

 

[Taytertot]

i wonder if glide attack would be good for jab resets where your opponent is going to land to far away to get a normal jab reset?

 

[Kipcom]

Ok, that makes sense.

How would you change glide attack to make it viable, though? Making it l-cancelable would be a step in the right direction IMO, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on improvement.

I'd make it L-cancellable, and if they can't do that, just give it little landing lag. It's landing lag right now is just bad lol.

That or I'd make it an egdeguard tool and give it some kind of weak horizontal spike at the tip (I'd want it to be somewhat difficult to spike with, so that it's not just a matter of glide -> spike for free)

Less lag is probably the better design choice though, lol.

 

[zen-bz-]

One other change that would be interesting is a modified pop-up angle if you glide attack while an opponent is on the ground. Something to allow for more combos out of it, definitely.

Ideally, a modified pop-up angle and making it l-cancelable would be golden and actually make glide attack viable now instead of just dair.

 

[Life]

Whatever glide attack ends up doing, it needs to either have the risk-reward to justify using it offensively (spending your glide while onstage is a pretty big risk) or it has to be a useful defensive option while recovering (more active frames? more reach?). It could also remain as it is, as Pit's kit doesn't exactly need it. Maybe it's just there for consistency reasons with Charizard and MK also having glide attacks? It's hard to tell. Maybe they just wanted Pit to have a way to hit people at that angle relative to him besides late dair. Maybe it's there because Brawl. Who knows?

(Actually, does it clank with stuff like MK glide attack does?)

 

[zen-bz-]

True, it does come out faster than dair. Apart from startup speed, though, dair has multiple advantages over GA, most notably the ability to l cancel it and the popup. I know in Brawl, if you glided, you were forced to use glide attack unless you jumped out of glide, and then you can perform any aerial. In PM, the ability to use any aerial (including GA) out of glide directly reduced the reliance of GA by a ton.

The main problem with Pit's aerials is that they're kinda laggy. The only one that comes out really fast is nair, the rest have a longer startup. GA's quick swipe is another "aerial" (if you can call it that) that has a quick startup but high ending lag. GA does have its niche (such as catching opponents off guard with a quick swipe), but apart from its niche it isn't worth using in its current state. If it became l-cancelable, there would be more use for it in general and could allow for more mixups and the like. This would be a good offensive use. Adding the spike idea presented by Kip could also have some offensive utility offstage, and could even provide defensive coverage back onstage.

 

[Taytertot]

personally i dont see the point in giving pit or any other character a "bad" move just as a place holder. how far from the ground does pit need to be to auto cancel GA? if it auto cancels quickly maybe thats a reason to use it.

 

[zen-bz-]

personally i dont see the point in giving pit or any other character a "bad" move just as a place holder. how far from the ground does pit need to be to auto cancel GA? if it auto cancels quickly maybe thats a reason to use it.

It has no ac, iirc
If it did it'd be way more useful

 

[Taytertot]

it cant be ac? so if you use it at the top of dreamland you wont ac?

 

[Orange Chris]

It 'autocancels' as soon as the animation ends, aka when you can use other aerials. That's 35 frames. The hitbox lasts until frame 13, meaning if you land as soon as you can without GA's landing lag, you'll still be vulnerable for 22 frames. So you may as well have just landed as soon as the hitbox vanished (I can't find the exact number, but I'm pretty sure it's about 20 frames landing lag).

 

[Taytertot]

ah that makes sense. thats really crappy frame data though. i see why everyone has an issue with it.

 

[Life]

Today I went all Bowser at the weekly and got first in doubles alongside a Luigi and then third in singles.

Had some mentality issues where I wanted so badly to win that I'd get in my own head and do stupid things while trying to win faster, so I figured playing a character I've put relatively little time into and just not taking this tournament as seriously as I usually do would be good for me. Besides, with the school year in I didn't think the stress of playing to win would be healthy. Bowser seemed like the most appropriate character to do that with based on everyone I've tried in this game (it's a bit of a list LOL).

So what characters do y'all play besides Pit?