General Ness discussion

[#HBC | Mac]

i think yu just mostly wait for them to commit to something dumb.

but yea dunno, characters like sheik who play keep out games are really difficult to deal with.

i guess it depends on what they do when you approach. not really enough information for anyone to give a proper response.

 

[The Mofo]

Oh hey guys, what's going on in here?

 

[thesage]

^
that can't be mofo. He already has an account on swf. If it is then OMG.

KK: It depends on which character it is. Some options:

Don't approach and camp with fair

IF they have ****ty grab range: run up and d-tilt them, shield before the d-tilt chain ends then shieldgrab or punish the move they've been trying to cc into.

Play wd games with pk fire (risky)

Space a bat

Try to get them in the air and fair them

DD around them and do fast djc aerials.

Could you give a specfic character? That'd be a little easier to give u advice to...

 

[The Mofo]

It's Mofo. I thought my old account, MasterOfFlames89, which I made when I was 12, was quite homosexual.

LOL @ approaching with dtilts!

KK, Ness is one of those characters that relies on holes in other peoples games. Ness' counter-strategy game is a LOT stronger than his direct approach. The best he's got, approach wise:

- wavedash and dashdance and feel the person out, figure out their holes.
- Space your fairs, if you find yourself about to get shield grabbed, don't miss the l-cancel, try to fit in a jab and run away
- DJC back airs are the best: jump forward away, DJC back air fastfall. If it connects at low%, combo to grab. (dash jump-canceled grabs, of course)
- Lingering DJC downairs can be hella tricky, but are also easy to figure out if you're not hella tricky. Shield pokes are always nice. DJC bair can sheild poke their legs too, if you get it low enough.
- Running A can be also tricky, but again if you're not tricky can just be extremely obvious.

In the end, you really want them to do stuff first, so you can fit between the cracks.

 

[thesage]

OMG IT'S MOFO

Mods plz give the first post to him and rename thread ask mofo ness things. If that's ok with him.

Btw, d-tilts work. Try it out. Just don't use it against Fox, Marth, Falco, Samus, or Peach.

 

[The Mofo]

This is how dtilts work against CCers:

above 15-25% or so, DJC down air. If they miss the tech, spam dtilts. Afterward, they'll autostand, and you have enough time for a slightly charged bat, or anything else. You can fit in anywhere between 2-10 dtilts before they're out of range, depending on DI. This usually does around 40-50% total.

This also works with uair above 70% or so, perfect for KOing.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

he's basically talking about jab resets but with dtilt instead and trying to fit in as many dtilts as yu can before there forced to stand up.

i don't see how a dtilt approach makes much sense though. Can't just run up and dtilt. Like any character would counter than with relative easy.

 

[The Mofo]

You could just do one to be safe, but doing dtilts until they're out of dtilt range puts them in an almost perfect spot for a bat tipper.

 

[thesage]

D-tilt vs people who miss a tech basically acts like a jab lock in brawl for people who didn't understand mofo's post and know what jab locks are.

I wish I was able to react to missed techs more often. That combo does a lot of damage.

 

[legion598]

ive been picking up ness lately and against CCrs unless its like marth, roy, or someone else with retardedly long range CC options I SH fair (no DJC) with the very tip of fair and space it so i land out of grab range SH fair auto cancels and I Fsmash. if they CC grab or jab or something else that has low range or priority Fsmash will go right through it. if they shield then the Fsmash will cause ungodly shield push making it safe and giving u good spacing


now i have a question. how do you input DJC Uairs to combo FFers when they DI away? I use Y>tap jump>C stick but this usually doesnt go forwards enough to get their DI. ive been thinking about clawing so i can do Y>Y>c stick fast enough but im hoping that i dont have to claw

 

[#HBC | Mac]

you can djc so you move forward while doing any aerial. It's looks like a mini peach float. Yea you just need fast fingers.

moving forward while djcing a bair is like the hardest

if it's still too hard for yu, yu can try to go for the djcfair regrab, but tht can be buffer spotdodged/rolled

 

[The Mofo]

Against Fox and Falco, it can be hard to get that uair in before the regrab if they DI too far at low percent. If you're upthrowing up to about 15%, you can always just regrab chaingrab-style no problem, then upthrow again. They should have enough damage for you to comfortably get the uair off after that.

I'm kind of assuming you're playing on FD. On other stages, you have to react as to which way they're DIing, and adapt your plans according to if they're going to land on a platform or not.

I honestly don't think using up to jump, using the c-stick, or clawing will ever feel natural or fluent when doing DJCs. It may seem hard now, but you can do everything you need to without any weird hand maneuvers.

 

[The Mofo]

(Glitched double post)

 

[Shashin]

Honestly against fast fallers, I think the preferred combo off uthrow is djcffl'd uair utilt regrab until around 50% where you can just do djc uair combos and combo into a bair for stupid knockback.

Also, against a non-CCing Marth, fair combos into YYG at very low percents. Try it out next time.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ytf wud you add a utilt in between?

 

[legion598]

u can also DJCFF FAir> YYG non crouch cancel fast fallers.
DJCFF Fair>grab almost never works because ppl can just CCgrab or jab. I just opt to fair them again or Fsmash

so ur saying u can Y>Y> c stick up for DJC U airs? cuz thats like hella fast.

 

[Kyu Puff]

y > y > control stick + a?

 

[The Mofo]

The best way to DJC is L + C-up + Analog-up + Z-button.

 

[Lordydennek]

Just picked up Ness at the beggining of the summer. He's highly enjoyable. Question- what is the best stage for him? I like platforms a lot. I cant beat my friends marth without them.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

lol FD is the best stage

pokemon stadium is the second best. (cept for those dumb transformations.

FOD and YS could be ok, cuz yu can pk fire edge cancel easily on their platforms. (this actually shouldn't be a reason for you picking this stage as it generally doesn't affect anything. But if you play there you can look cool doing edgecancel tricks)

but actually YS is prolly his worst stage. Cuz shy guy's edgeguard you.
and then BF cuz for some reason its hard for ness to sweetspot that stage from above. He like hits the edge of it and still goes down.

but all you should take from this is that FD is great every other stage sucks

 

[Kyu Puff]

What about brinstar?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh yo, brinstar could be a good ness stage

1. he can't get gimped as easy cuz of lava.
2. he can break up the stage with pk fire.
3. spacies mess up their edge cancels more
4. FFers get wrecked by lava combos
5. You can yyg the little tendon things. (though this is kind of hard)

this is all theory though so it's prolly still not that great

 

[The Mofo]

You can only get the weak-hit-activated YYG on Brinstar, on the left side platform thing- the weak-hit method isn't very consistent, so it's probably a waste of time. Breaking up the stage is awesome- I think forward throw can kill at 0% on the left side when the stage is separated, if they fail to DI it correctly.

I've had good experiences on Brinstar with Ness. FoD is good too, you can do some really awesome combos and trixies with the platforms.

 

[thesage]

Corneria is a really good stage for Ness lol.

But for non-gay tactics I like FoD the best, but I prefer that stage with Peach too so that might influence my decision.

I don't know how to use brinstar at all so I never cp. I'll try it out with Ness sometime.

Mofo: Can you give some tips on combo'ing with nair? I have a hard time doing it. Also, if it doesn't bother you, find some way to upload videos of your Ness. I learned so much from just watching ur match vs. pc's doc.

On the djc subject I use control stick + x + z for uair, bair, and fair. I also use z to l-cancel in this situation. XXA for nair and dair.

To practice djc uair do the combo featured on 0:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ9Thc6wMVU&feature=related (that's called the mofo combo btw lol). Once you can do that try doing it in a match. Learn to use djc to "float." Learn how to swingjump (though it's not very useful). Just practice doing djc's really fast in training mode and you should get it...

Edit: Ness seems to be stagnating in the metagame. Any ideas on how to spice up his game?

 

[legion598]

ive always liked dream land myself especially vs marth. ness can live forever there cuz his recovery at least goes pretty far if u can get it out. the plats are good for staying out of trouble and i dont know about u guys but i find it easiest to recover there providing u dont get waffled

as for DJC Uairs i can do them quickly but i have trouble getting the forward DI necessary to combo ppl when they DI away. the Y direction stick up method makes it hard to go forward but ya ill get it down

 

[#HBC | Mac]

you guys are in for a surprise

 

[otg]

mofo is a beast.

 

[thesage]

What surprise? Will there be new videos?

 

[otg]

Yes, the 3rd Mofo video EVER.

 

[Lordydennek]

i do like fd. i kill myself on fod a lot tho. idk i get stuck uder the edge. dream land is good against marth tho. fo sho. i dont mind bf that much.

ps. i love fair to nair. or fair to THE FUUCKING BASEBALL BAT!

 

[thesage]

FD is also a really cool stage too. It's semi-helpful to learn how to wallride the fd walls. It can really mess up people edgeguarding you and stuff...

Be more careful on FoD. I still like that stage.

If there's more mofo videos I will be so happy happy blue blue.

Baseball bat is really cool to edgeguard with. So is d-tilt.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

if yu want a taste...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFcT1rOqhMg

 

[The Mofo]

Two more Ness vids coming right up

Plus, they're tournament matches.

Can you give some tips on combo'ing with nair? I have a hard time doing it.

I only really use nair combos vs space animals/capt. falcon/roy after doing repeated uairs. Instead of just going for the bair finish, you hit them with the last part of the nair and then combo it into bair.

If you don't have enough time to do that, weak bair hits combo into strong bair hits too. This is probably more useful against characters that don't have as much hitstun, since you don't have to wait for the end of the nair while comboing.

Also, occasionally out-of-shield, I'll do a quick nair, and combo it to grab at low percent. That's only if I don't have enough time for a bair, though.

 

[thesage]

Weak nair to bair. Allright.

 

[Lordydennek]

or you can do fair to fair to fair on floaties and semi floaties. make sure you hit the second fair so that it knocks them up a bit. then finish the last fair so it knocks them way off the stage. then pk thunder>edgegaurd.

 

[thesage]

What happened to Falcon in the vid?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

you can't figure it out?

AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A NESS MAIN!

 

[thesage]

Thunder jacket?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Hax tried to ledgehop knee, but the knee traded with the thunder jacket and Mofo saved himself with the tail of the pk thunder.

 

[The Mofo]

Hax tried to ledgehop knee, but the knee traded with the thunder jacket and Mofo saved himself with the tail of the pk thunder.

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